WEBVTT 00:00:18.530 --> 00:00:31.950 - Oh, I like that idea. Love it. Let's go high. How's everybody doing tonight? Good, good. My name is 00:00:31.950 --> 00:00:46.846 - Rebecca Haynes and I'll be your host tonight. This is only our second edition of the Bloomington Variety Hour. 00:00:47.714 --> 00:00:53.764 - Our guests tonight are Hal Taylor, president of Citizens for Effective Justice. Rashid Mahdi, who's 00:00:53.764 --> 00:00:59.996 - active in the Islamic community, as well as a landlord here, and has dabbled in politics. Jill Taylor, 00:00:59.996 --> 00:01:06.590 - who is Hal Taylor's daughter, does brain research. She's been at Harvard. She's overcome a tremendous amount 00:01:06.722 --> 00:01:12.844 - personal difficulty with her own brain. So she has insight into her own research as well. And also, 00:01:12.844 --> 00:01:19.272 - we have Dan Kerrigan as our musical guest tonight, a nomadic extraordinaire, I suppose. Right now, we're 00:01:19.272 --> 00:01:25.638 - going to start with Hal. Welcome, Hal. How are you doing tonight? I mentioned in your introduction that 00:01:25.638 --> 00:01:31.944 - you're president of Citizens for Effective Justice. I wondered if maybe you could just give us a brief 00:01:31.944 --> 00:01:35.678 - intro into what Citizens for Effective Justice is all about, 00:01:35.842 --> 00:01:44.366 - what you do in the community and for the community? It's a group which began very spontaneously after 00:01:44.366 --> 00:01:52.723 - the death of James Warden. And it was concerned with the fact that the newspapers had not picked up 00:01:52.723 --> 00:02:01.331 - on this. It took three days for them to get an article in the paper. And then it was only a small one. 00:02:01.331 --> 00:02:05.342 - And so several of us got very upset about that. 00:02:07.522 --> 00:02:16.061 - got together a group of people who were also upset about it. And that was the beginning of Citizens 00:02:16.061 --> 00:02:24.942 - for Effective Justice. From there, then we went on to deal with a number of other issues that are alive 00:02:24.942 --> 00:02:33.310 - in the town. And we got into problems surrounding the jail and the whole criminal justice system. 00:02:35.810 --> 00:02:44.169 - that the group has grown from that first meeting. We've met every Saturday, I think maybe one exception 00:02:44.169 --> 00:02:52.448 - since, and continue to meet on Saturday afternoons at 1.30 at Trinity Church. What are the issues that 00:02:52.448 --> 00:03:00.727 - most concern you right now in jails? Well, a primary issue that most people are concerned about is the 00:03:00.727 --> 00:03:05.630 - recidivism rate and the fact that our jails are overcrowded. 00:03:06.530 --> 00:03:13.477 - The overcrowding makes it difficult to do any educating of the people who are in the jail. And it makes 00:03:13.477 --> 00:03:20.291 - it difficult to do anything, actually, with them. So the people go into the jail, and they are thrown 00:03:20.291 --> 00:03:27.104 - warehouse for the period of time that they're there. And that doesn't do anybody any good. Right. And 00:03:27.104 --> 00:03:34.051 - your concern is that they keep coming back to jail all over again. Our concern is that they keep coming 00:03:34.051 --> 00:03:35.454 - back, and so we want 00:03:35.906 --> 00:03:43.318 - programs that will help them stay out in the first place. And then once they're in, if they have any 00:03:43.318 --> 00:03:50.876 - kind of problems with drugs, we're concerned about that. And if they have other problems with decision 00:03:50.876 --> 00:03:58.361 - making and understanding their own decisions as they made them in the past, we're concerned with that 00:03:58.361 --> 00:04:04.158 - too. And we're also concerned with the whole educational level that they have. 00:04:04.290 --> 00:04:11.280 - Because that is a large element in whether or not they can get jobs when they get out. Right, it contributes 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:17.885 - to the poverty, which probably brings them back to community crimes again in the first place. And then 00:04:17.885 --> 00:04:24.362 - we're also concerned about when they get out. And our program, ultimately, will have a halfway house 00:04:24.362 --> 00:04:30.968 - that will be run by the people themselves. What specifically are the programs you propose to help with 00:04:30.968 --> 00:04:34.110 - that? Are there specific proposals on the table? 00:04:34.274 --> 00:04:42.931 - I know you talked about two subgroups of Citizen for Effective Justice that were involved with the jails 00:04:42.931 --> 00:04:51.340 - right now. Right. The first of those is what we call the CIT program. It's a crisis intervention team 00:04:51.340 --> 00:04:59.749 - project. And the goal of it is to train a group of police officers within the overall set of officers 00:04:59.749 --> 00:05:03.294 - so that in the event that anyone calls in, 00:05:03.778 --> 00:05:14.071 - something that looks like it might have either a mentally ill person involved or somebody who is otherwise 00:05:14.071 --> 00:05:23.787 - not quite adequate, that they will be able to send this team or somebody from this team to deal with 00:05:23.787 --> 00:05:33.214 - that person. And the team will have been taught how to deescalate problems instead of the kind of 00:05:33.346 --> 00:05:40.185 - way that the police often sail into situations in which their de-escalation is the last thing in their 00:05:40.185 --> 00:05:46.293 - minds. Right. They come into a violent mentality already, that these are violent offenders, 00:05:46.293 --> 00:05:52.999 - and they get them. Yeah. I'm curious. I don't mean to be rude, but how old are you, Hal? I'm 86. Why 00:05:52.999 --> 00:05:59.639 - an 86 driver? I mean, all of this. But what does it entice? I know you've been a reverend, but what 00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:02.494 - specifically just what creates that drive? 00:06:03.714 --> 00:06:12.572 - I don't know, other than that I'm passionately concerned about the rich, poor issue in our country. 00:06:12.572 --> 00:06:21.607 - Because the rich are getting richer, and they're going to continue to get richer. The whole system is 00:06:21.607 --> 00:06:31.262 - set up for them to get richer. And the poor are getting poorer. And the system is set up for that to happen. 00:06:31.938 --> 00:06:40.013 - And I see this as being a critical issue in our nation. And that's one side of it. The other side of 00:06:40.013 --> 00:06:48.007 - it is I care about people who are hurting. So I try to do what I can to help them out. So would you 00:06:48.007 --> 00:06:56.642 - say that jail has almost become a mechanism of keeping the poor out of society and from becoming successful 00:06:56.642 --> 00:07:01.918 - within society under the normal constraints? Something like that. 00:07:02.658 --> 00:07:11.482 - something like that, that jail has become a mental institution for people who have mental illness, and 00:07:11.482 --> 00:07:20.821 - one that is very destructive. And it's also become a real problem for people who have any kind of addiction, 00:07:20.821 --> 00:07:28.446 - because the issue in addiction is trying to get away from something which is bothersome. 00:07:29.506 --> 00:07:37.054 - Like, people have addictions because it's a misgivings for them. That's right. In order to get away 00:07:37.054 --> 00:07:44.754 - from something that's bothering you, you get into something that dulls your senses or otherwise holds 00:07:44.754 --> 00:07:52.679 - you back. And jail is exactly that. So the jail becomes another addiction. And society, which is talking 00:07:52.679 --> 00:07:58.718 - all the time about dealing with people with addictions, is throwing them in the 00:07:58.850 --> 00:08:05.700 - jail so that they are sitting there for hour after hour after hour away from the problems of life. In 00:08:05.700 --> 00:08:12.416 - other words, they're getting exactly what an addiction. They're offered another addiction in place. 00:08:12.416 --> 00:08:19.199 - And not to mention if these people are non-violent offenders, they're put in with violent offenders, 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:25.982 - correct? Yeah, right, right. Which probably- More or less, they make some effort to keep them apart. 00:08:26.466 --> 00:08:34.271 - What percentage of people in at least Bloomington or Monroe County would you estimate are in there because 00:08:34.271 --> 00:08:41.639 - of addiction and non-violent offenses? I don't know how many of them would be there for non-violent. 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:49.007 - But I would think that it would be, I'm only guessing. I would think that maybe 70%. Wow. By violent 00:08:49.007 --> 00:08:51.998 - now, I mean fights that people get into. 00:08:56.994 --> 00:09:06.000 - I had an attorney tell me some time ago that he thought that maybe they had six or seven people a year 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:14.919 - who really belonged in jail. Wow. And all that taxpayer money. That's right. And all the rest of them 00:09:14.919 --> 00:09:24.013 - really belonged there. Right. And this was an attorney who has been a prosecuting attorney here in town 00:09:24.013 --> 00:09:25.150 - in the past. 00:09:25.282 --> 00:09:32.518 - We're really short on time right now, but if anyone would like to get involved with this organization, 00:09:32.518 --> 00:09:40.246 - could you remind us real fast when you guys meet? We meet at 1.30 at Trinity Church every Saturday afternoon. 00:09:40.246 --> 00:09:47.411 - And that's a discussion group. We're divided now into two parts. We have a discussion forum that goes 00:09:47.411 --> 00:09:54.366 - every Saturday. And then we have another group that we're incorporating called New Leaf, New Life. 00:09:54.786 --> 00:10:00.426 - And that's the group that's going to hopefully collect money to do some of the things that we really 00:10:00.426 --> 00:10:06.346 - want to do. OK, so that's open to the public and anyone who sees jail overcrowding. It is open to anybody 00:10:06.346 --> 00:10:11.986 - who has an interest in any aspect of the criminal justice system. We're really concerned about that. 00:10:11.986 --> 00:10:16.510 - OK. Thank you very much, Hal. See you again at the end of the show on the panel. 00:10:23.298 --> 00:10:31.634 - We're going to have a song from Dan Carrigan. I suppose he can introduce it himself or just play without 00:10:31.634 --> 00:10:36.318 - informing the title. Fluid on the ground was an indication 00:10:54.818 --> 00:10:55.166 - Peace. 00:11:25.474 --> 00:11:45.758 - And I've been requesting for that gorilla gig As when new in town I am wanted to do 00:11:59.522 --> 00:12:17.760 - me a shot on her video phone, wearing makeup in a woman's gown. She said that they would be watching 00:12:17.760 --> 00:12:20.830 - movies at night. 00:12:36.066 --> 00:12:51.474 - 25 years now so I guess you're doing fine. The brake fluid puddles in the parking lot. Seething from 00:12:51.474 --> 00:13:05.662 - the breach in my brake line. Attending your arrival as I write this song. Wishing that I was 00:13:26.818 --> 00:13:27.870 - outside. 00:14:02.594 --> 00:14:18.768 - The stars keep on whizzing by. The trucks sail just like the ocean. And I entertain the notion. My master 00:14:18.768 --> 00:14:30.974 - cylinder's running dry. And in the a.m. little bee breaks our usher by the key. 00:14:37.986 --> 00:14:53.505 - Folks are great and gregarious. I know it's all up to me at the end of him. And I knew something was 00:14:53.505 --> 00:15:02.878 - amiss. I was curious. Back in Nashville, I had wondered why. 00:15:08.450 --> 00:15:26.352 - With all those stains on the pavement Everywhere I went I was hoping they weren't mine With tears streaming 00:15:26.352 --> 00:15:35.966 - down the side windows I get back in and I grab the guitar 00:16:00.546 --> 00:16:09.935 - by now. Next guest is going to be Jill Taylor, who is Hal Taylor's daughter. We have a family here tonight. 00:16:09.935 --> 00:16:18.628 - Hi, how are you doing tonight? Wonderful, wonderful. Well, we just talked to your dad. Quite a guy. 00:16:18.628 --> 00:16:27.582 - Yeah, quite a guy. And we didn't even begin to delve into all of his accomplishments. He's a reverend. 00:16:29.826 --> 00:16:35.879 - But your deal is the brain. Yes, my deal is the brain. I got a chance to talk to you before. You talked 00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:41.874 - about being left-brained and right-brained, and how that affected society. And I just thought that was 00:16:41.874 --> 00:16:47.811 - absolutely one of the most interesting things I've heard all week, if not all month, if not all year. 00:16:47.811 --> 00:16:53.690 - So I wondered if you could share that with our audience and our perspective to the audience a little 00:16:53.690 --> 00:16:56.542 - bit. Well, when you think about the human brain, 00:16:56.770 --> 00:17:02.939 - It is divided into two major hemispheres, a huge right hemisphere, a huge left hemisphere. And they 00:17:02.939 --> 00:17:09.354 - complement one another in what they do, but they each have their own individual consciousness. And yet, 00:17:09.354 --> 00:17:15.585 - they communicate with one another so that, as human beings, we feel as though we have a brain in our 00:17:15.585 --> 00:17:21.753 - head and that we have a thought process and we have an experience. But in actuality, what we really 00:17:21.753 --> 00:17:26.750 - have are two different brains, two different consciousnesses inside of our head. 00:17:27.138 --> 00:17:33.705 - And most of us recognize that we have an intellectual consciousness, a thinking consciousness. And the 00:17:33.705 --> 00:17:40.208 - left hemisphere is all about the past and about the future. So there's a clock that sits in the back, 00:17:40.208 --> 00:17:46.583 - the left hemisphere. And so you're on a clock, and oh my gosh, you wake up in the morning, and most 00:17:46.583 --> 00:17:53.150 - of us are already behind. And we have a relationship with things some other time other than right now. 00:17:53.602 --> 00:18:00.622 - So the left hemisphere consciousness is all about some other experience. It's a memory. The right hemisphere 00:18:00.622 --> 00:18:07.127 - consciousness is right here, right now. Right here, right now. This is a perfect moment. And in this 00:18:07.127 --> 00:18:13.632 - moment, I'm perfect. I'm whole. I am beautiful. And so are you. So we are these incredible body. The 00:18:13.632 --> 00:18:20.073 - whole body is made up of 50 trillion cells. 50 trillion. Now, 50 trillion is a mind-blowing number. 00:18:20.073 --> 00:18:23.486 - You would have to take all the people on the planet, 00:18:23.778 --> 00:18:31.207 - and there are approximately 6 billion people on the planet, and multiply all those people 8,333 times, 00:18:31.207 --> 00:18:38.493 - all the people on the planet, to make up the number of cells making up the typical adult human body. 00:18:38.493 --> 00:18:45.850 - So I look at the body and I say, every cell in my body, except for the red blood cells, every cell in 00:18:45.850 --> 00:18:52.414 - my body, all 50 trillion, contain the exact genetic profile as that original cell that was 00:18:52.578 --> 00:18:59.773 - created by the combination of the egg cell and the sperm cell. So that original cell, the zygote cell, 00:18:59.773 --> 00:19:06.898 - had the molecular genius to metamorphosize itself into my body. And it did it by duplicating its DNA, 00:19:06.898 --> 00:19:13.883 - repackaging that DNA inside of cells, and multiplying and multiplying and multiplying. So I look at 00:19:13.883 --> 00:19:20.798 - myself in my right hemisphere. I say, I am the life force power of 50 trillion molecular geniuses. 00:19:21.026 --> 00:19:28.240 - and so i walk around the planet amen it's like a hallelujah you know we are so cool just as living beings 00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:35.114 - but in the left hemisphere i am a separate i am a solid i am an individual an ego i am an ego center 00:19:35.114 --> 00:19:42.124 - i have a language center that says i i am i am a neuroscientist i live at this address my phone number 00:19:42.124 --> 00:19:45.118 - is this is what the things that interest me 00:19:45.378 --> 00:19:51.796 - So I'm all about my ego center, the small, separate me in the left hemisphere, and yet the right hemisphere 00:19:51.796 --> 00:19:57.977 - has this completely separate consciousness. The beauty of that is at any moment in time, any experience 00:19:57.977 --> 00:20:04.455 - you have, generally, you make a choice. Do I approach this situation from my right hemisphere consciousness, 00:20:04.455 --> 00:20:10.576 - or do I approach this from my left hemisphere consciousness? And generally, the approach is very, very 00:20:10.576 --> 00:20:14.974 - different. So inside, if somebody's approaching something with their left 00:20:15.522 --> 00:20:21.382 - they're thinking about themselves, and they're thinking about, I don't know, domination almost, or power, 00:20:21.382 --> 00:20:27.131 - wealth, or gain in the future. But instead, the right brain can just be here now in the present moment, 00:20:27.131 --> 00:20:33.157 - just kind of what all of that philosophical, all of that Eastern, all that, I mean, pretty much spirituality 00:20:33.157 --> 00:20:39.127 - in general talks about. And you had talked about how you can tap into that, just by kind of really thinking 00:20:39.127 --> 00:20:44.158 - about the moments that you have, where you're experiencing that emotion of, I am here now. 00:20:46.338 --> 00:20:52.798 - I call it stepping to the right. At any moment, the left hemisphere, because it has linearity, it also 00:20:52.798 --> 00:20:59.133 - has hierarchy. So when you look at our society, it's a very hierarchical society. Our government has 00:20:59.133 --> 00:21:05.718 - a president, then we have Congress, and then we have the people, and we are on this hierarchy. The right 00:21:05.718 --> 00:21:10.046 - hemisphere has a continuum, and everyone is equal on that continuum. 00:21:10.178 --> 00:21:16.646 - And when you look at us as living beings, we are all equal. We are all the same 50 trillion cells. We 00:21:16.646 --> 00:21:23.050 - are all the same force of life. But we do have different opportunities. So in our academic system is 00:21:23.050 --> 00:21:29.455 - also in hierarchy. You start at kindergarten. You graduate 12. You go to college. You go to graduate 00:21:29.455 --> 00:21:36.113 - school. You go beyond. But there's this hierarchy. So we are trained. We're in a left hemisphere trained 00:21:36.113 --> 00:21:38.142 - environment, when in actuality, 00:21:38.370 --> 00:21:44.290 - many of us want to and do remain in that consciousness that we are all equal. We are all one. We are 00:21:44.290 --> 00:21:50.152 - one human family on this planet. And that's the consciousness of the right hemisphere. So I call it 00:21:50.152 --> 00:21:56.365 - stepping to the right. And I think that it's key that people learn what it takes for you as an individual 00:21:56.365 --> 00:22:02.344 - to step to the right. And that plays right into what your dad was talking about with the class system 00:22:02.344 --> 00:22:08.030 - and with the upper class moving up and the lower class moving down, which is really interesting. 00:22:08.162 --> 00:22:15.268 - I don't want to get so interested in the brain stuff that we overlook your accomplishments since we 00:22:15.268 --> 00:22:22.444 - were just talking about your dad. You did teach at Harvard, correct? I performed research and taught 00:22:22.444 --> 00:22:29.550 - at Harvard School of Dental Medicine. So I specialized in the postmortem investigation of the brain 00:22:29.550 --> 00:22:36.158 - as it relates to individuals with schizophrenia. So I'm very interested in the mentally ill. 00:22:36.546 --> 00:22:43.726 - I'm currently the president of our new NAMI group here locally. So if anyone has mental illness in your 00:22:43.726 --> 00:22:50.629 - family and you're looking for support or educational opportunities or advocacy opportunities, NAMI, 00:22:50.629 --> 00:22:57.602 - National Alliance on Mental Illness is an option. And also you do a thing called singing for brains. 00:22:57.602 --> 00:22:59.742 - I do. I sing for brains. I do. 00:23:00.066 --> 00:23:05.492 - there's a shortage of tissue donated for my type of research. And so I started going around educating 00:23:05.492 --> 00:23:10.812 - the public about the beauty and the resiliency of the brain, about the value of brain donation. And 00:23:10.812 --> 00:23:15.759 - people recognized, oh my gosh, she wants my brain. And you know, I'm a girl from Indiana, so 00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:21.078 - I was traumatizing my audiences, and I thought, well, I have to do something to lighten this up. So 00:23:21.078 --> 00:23:26.398 - I wrote the Brain Bang Jingle, and so now I always end my presentations with the Brain Bang Jingle. 00:23:26.626 --> 00:23:36.227 - I think we're about to hear the Brain Bank jingle, right? She's going to play a little guitar for us. 00:23:36.227 --> 00:23:45.923 - Isn't she great already? But now we'll hear the Brain Bank jingle. So this piece is titled 1-800-Brain 00:23:45.923 --> 00:23:51.006 - Bank. Oh, I am a brain banker, yes, begging brains is 00:23:58.626 --> 00:24:09.651 - from you. Don't worry, I'm in no hurry. Have you considered the contribution you can make when you are 00:24:09.651 --> 00:24:20.676 - heaven bound? Your brain can hang around to help humanity. Find the key to unlock this thing they call 00:24:20.676 --> 00:24:28.062 - insanity. Just dial 1-800-FRAINBRAIN for information please. Educate 00:24:28.226 --> 00:24:31.454 - donate. It's free. 00:25:02.594 --> 00:25:10.014 - I think that Dan's going to do another song real fast for us, and then we'll be talking to Rashid Mighty. 00:25:10.014 --> 00:25:15.614 - And here's Dan Carrigan again. Hard one to follow there, huh? Yeah, I guess so. 00:25:59.842 --> 00:26:20.788 - No peasant underclass Sitcher who gets his ass lit And he'd rather be here now But he thinks it's already 00:26:20.788 --> 00:26:24.542 - been Time is short 00:27:02.466 --> 00:27:20.638 - It's flying when he's having fun These flats were made for him 00:27:38.402 --> 00:27:52.734 - Some folks he's friendly Others he's not so kind People change with him 00:28:15.010 --> 00:28:30.217 - Or to lay a stitch and time puts away time That's not its work if you don't search Time is a convenience 00:28:30.217 --> 00:28:42.238 - that keeps Everything from happening at the same time And redundant as that sounds 00:28:53.986 --> 00:29:06.558 - He's friendly. Others he is to blame. People change with the end. 00:29:31.170 --> 00:29:32.670 - just beginner. 00:30:36.386 --> 00:30:46.654 - We just rearrange the games that we continue to play. 00:31:46.274 --> 00:31:51.997 - Please welcome Rashid Maidi, who, until we get to talk to Dan, who's just hearing his beautiful music, 00:31:51.997 --> 00:31:57.554 - is our last guest. Hi, how are you doing tonight? You're good. Good, good. I'm not quite sure where 00:31:57.554 --> 00:32:03.111 - to start with you on this one. I know you've been involved in politics. I know that you're involved 00:32:03.111 --> 00:32:08.834 - in the Islamic community. I've gotten a chance to hear you talk about the United States so many times. 00:32:08.834 --> 00:32:12.446 - I'm not sure where to begin. But I guess in light of the tragedy 00:32:18.018 --> 00:32:24.793 - How do you feel as a member of the Islamic community about some of the violence that was done to yourself 00:32:24.793 --> 00:32:31.184 - as well as others in this community? Well, I think you have a different opinion. And of course, I'm 00:32:31.184 --> 00:32:38.023 - not going to speak for them. I'm going to speak for myself. But I mean, I have a different opinion because 00:32:38.023 --> 00:32:44.990 - what happened there, it happened to every one of us because that's not Middle Eastern mosque. It's American. 00:32:46.562 --> 00:32:54.322 - So every church is here, there are American churches, outside churches. And to quick jump to conclusions 00:32:54.322 --> 00:33:01.861 - saying it's because of what happened in England, I don't believe that's the case, because people have 00:33:01.861 --> 00:33:09.103 - different things in their mind. A week later, there was some graffiti written on the church here, 00:33:09.103 --> 00:33:14.942 - of course, from the post office. Could be the same person who just hate faith, 00:33:15.586 --> 00:33:22.484 - mentally disturbed or person has something about religion itself it doesn't like religion but people 00:33:22.484 --> 00:33:29.929 - jump to conclusions and and I'm really glad to see all the faith they did come together and as all Americans 00:33:29.929 --> 00:33:36.827 - stay holding each other and supporting each other instead of praying to Satan and Islam is also it's 00:33:36.827 --> 00:33:42.974 - about the same thing what it says in Islam to basically help each other and help everyone 00:33:44.994 --> 00:33:51.288 - But unfortunately, you know, Islam is being demonized by certain people who are doing it in the name 00:33:51.288 --> 00:33:57.519 - of God, which is really whatever it happened in Middle East or anywhere else that's not been Islam. 00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:04.187 - Islam doesn't say that for people who doesn't know that. Do you feel like, in a way, the people demonizing 00:34:04.187 --> 00:34:10.668 - Islam are our government because of the fear that's been instilled since 1611? Well, I mean, government 00:34:10.668 --> 00:34:14.718 - is just basically started before. For the Russians, the Russians 00:34:14.850 --> 00:34:21.659 - They were bad. They were monsters. But now they're OK. Now all they have to do, they have to demonize 00:34:21.659 --> 00:34:28.602 - others. So in order to keep the control. So I think that's one of the strategy. But using, I don't know 00:34:28.602 --> 00:34:35.611 - what next after the Muslims. Who is going to be next? And that is how it is powered in such a democratic 00:34:35.611 --> 00:34:41.886 - country where people have a voice. The only way to basically guide their voice is to put them 00:34:44.834 --> 00:34:51.701 - I think it's unfortunate for the Islamic community as well, even if having these stereotypes presented 00:34:51.701 --> 00:34:58.501 - to the American people, these people cause this. Anytime you start saying these people, it's... Well, 00:34:58.501 --> 00:35:04.968 - what's bothering me is the word label. Whenever a Muslim does something wrong, it's generalized. 00:35:04.968 --> 00:35:11.969 - If a Muslim, they don't call him by name, X and X, John Doe did this. Like for us, this is what happened 00:35:11.969 --> 00:35:14.302 - in Iraq. The Iraqis are not happy. 00:35:14.434 --> 00:35:22.112 - about the British and the Americans, or they don't say the Christians. They specifically say the Americans, 00:35:22.112 --> 00:35:29.719 - or specifically they say the British, they don't say the Christians. While Christianity is great religion, 00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:37.397 - it said turn the other cheek. How many people turning their cheek? When Gandhi said it was not for British, 00:35:37.397 --> 00:35:41.662 - Britain, England, India would have been Christianized. Why? 00:35:43.298 --> 00:35:49.131 - The British, they were seen as Christians coming there. And of course, unfortunately, they have given 00:35:49.131 --> 00:35:54.907 - a bad thing to Christianity. And so is Islam. Islam is also about peace. And some bad seeds has done 00:35:54.907 --> 00:36:00.912 - that. So it's just people who are not educated think Islam is bad. It's not, really. And that's a really 00:36:00.912 --> 00:36:06.631 - interesting point, that you don't hear people say, oh, the Christians did it when the United States 00:36:06.631 --> 00:36:12.464 - or almost any other country in the West World does something. That's interesting. You don't hear. You 00:36:12.464 --> 00:36:13.150 - never hear. 00:36:13.666 --> 00:36:21.277 - Christian did. And Christianity is one of the greatest religion of peace. You know, so is Islam. God 00:36:21.277 --> 00:36:28.887 - said to me, Islam will ever kill an innocent soul. Let me tell you, a human being, an innocent soul, 00:36:28.887 --> 00:36:36.498 - he's like he'll kill the whole humanity. And the prophet of Islam, what he says, said, if you are in 00:36:36.498 --> 00:36:42.526 - state of war, I mean, defensive, not offensive, defensive, don't harm children. 00:36:43.074 --> 00:36:51.537 - The Han women don't burn trees, don't burn houses. And if the farmer is farming his land, let him be. 00:36:51.537 --> 00:36:59.834 - And if a soldier gives up, an enemy gives up, set him free. So it's not just like all those radical 00:36:59.834 --> 00:37:07.550 - Muslims that weave in crusading, like jihad, kill everyone. No, no. No, this is just kind of 00:37:08.066 --> 00:37:14.776 - brainwashing, they could be used. But those people are against what the religion says. God condemns 00:37:14.776 --> 00:37:21.553 - suicide, period. And the word jihad, people may not understand the word jihad. Jihad means struggle. 00:37:21.553 --> 00:37:28.464 - Even when you take care of your family, it's jihad. Even when he's doing with the justice, it's jihad. 00:37:28.464 --> 00:37:35.710 - Jihad is not really pick up a gun and go shoot, no. What really the jihad on case 40 to defend your family, 00:37:36.930 --> 00:37:43.413 - If there's three things that you could die for, defending your family, if somebody come and kill your 00:37:43.413 --> 00:37:50.151 - family, that's a part of the jihad that you basically get to heaven, when they say defending your family, 00:37:50.151 --> 00:37:56.698 - defending your base, your town, your country, or your religion, if some people can't address you. It's 00:37:56.698 --> 00:38:03.118 - only defensive, not defensive. But it's never aggressive. No, never aggressive. It's only offensive. 00:38:03.118 --> 00:38:05.470 - It says, if you are attacked, you've 00:38:05.794 --> 00:38:12.404 - Defend yourself equally. If you get powerful, don't use extreme force. That's what I said. Don't use 00:38:12.404 --> 00:38:19.210 - extreme force. And they said, forgiveness is better than revenge. But, of course, all of this goodness, 00:38:19.210 --> 00:38:26.016 - the bad, it's not being shown or basically used by the Muslims who does the bad things. Basically, they 00:38:26.016 --> 00:38:33.150 - are not looking to their book. And God said also in the Quran, if you close your heart, your eyes won't see. 00:38:34.466 --> 00:38:39.969 - And it's happened with the Christian. The Bible verse said they don't see it because they close their 00:38:39.969 --> 00:38:45.688 - heart. Happened in anything. Right, so it's with all religion. With all religion. And you guys are acting 00:38:45.688 --> 00:38:51.191 - violently. Are gods better than your god? All the sponsors in the name of god. There is only one god. 00:38:51.191 --> 00:38:56.803 - Believe me, I tell you that there is only one god. There is no many gods. In Islam, they call it Allah, 00:38:56.803 --> 00:39:01.982 - but it's the same god. And it's god for everyone. Like the French said, chaquem posway yipotus. 00:39:02.338 --> 00:39:08.873 - means everyone for himself and God is for everyone. And that's how they should look at it. God is for 00:39:08.873 --> 00:39:15.343 - everyone. But there is groups of people who say God only for themselves. They're not the other ones, 00:39:15.343 --> 00:39:21.814 - which is not. And there is one good thing in Islam God said. He will judge you by your heart, not by 00:39:21.814 --> 00:39:28.348 - your action. By your heart. He looks in your heart and judges you by it, not by your actions. Because 00:39:28.348 --> 00:39:30.206 - actions we all know, really, 00:39:30.434 --> 00:39:37.299 - We misjudged people. Look how the injustice people have been gone to death for. Because people didn't 00:39:37.299 --> 00:39:44.097 - look to the heart of the person, really, if the person is innocent, if he did it, if he repented, if 00:39:44.097 --> 00:39:51.163 - he repented. Nobody knows that. But anyway, if all religions, if all religions, they follow the religion 00:39:51.163 --> 00:39:59.038 - and live policy out of it, exactly the way it is, we will have peace. I don't believe there is any religion who will 00:39:59.970 --> 00:40:05.938 - encourage violence or bloodshed or no. I want to, before we run out of time, touch on real fast. You 00:40:05.938 --> 00:40:11.847 - were involved in politics in Bloomington about six years ago. I think you were running for mayor. I 00:40:11.847 --> 00:40:17.815 - just wondered, what would you like to see? What issues concern you most in the Bloomington community 00:40:17.815 --> 00:40:23.960 - right now? I came here a long, long time ago, about three years ago. The town was beautiful. Everything 00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:29.278 - was so peaceful. It was just green as everywhere. You can walk to everywhere. But anyway. 00:40:29.538 --> 00:40:37.454 - 1999, I have noticed the changes. And I foresaw the future. And I had basically decided to run for mayor's 00:40:37.454 --> 00:40:45.148 - office to save Bloomington. And my slogan was save our town. Save our town, because I know what's going 00:40:45.148 --> 00:40:52.694 - to happen. And whatever I said, if you can go back to the tape, you will see exactly what I predicted 00:40:52.694 --> 00:40:58.686 - was happening. And I didn't like to see Bloomington going from a town to a city. 00:41:00.066 --> 00:41:07.642 - while GE was closing, AXE was closing, and it was only a university. And so they created a big city, 00:41:07.642 --> 00:41:15.367 - a hollow city, I call it, with not many people. And Bloomington wasn't meant to be that big city. It's 00:41:15.367 --> 00:41:22.718 - just a student town. And the biggest problem right now, we're going to have a lot of empty homes. 00:41:22.946 --> 00:41:28.873 - Because of all the new apartment complexes that they're calling? Oh, yeah. It's just ridiculous. I mean, 00:41:28.873 --> 00:41:34.574 - I don't know why. I mean, that's really like just go and devastate land, tear up the trees, and just 00:41:34.574 --> 00:41:40.219 - go ahead and just build big boxes. For what? I mean, I don't understand. There is enough houses for 00:41:40.219 --> 00:41:46.202 - everyone. But having these wild constructions is going to hurt us in the future. It's turning Bloomington 00:41:46.202 --> 00:41:50.718 - where it's not. Right. And the rent at those apartment complexes is incredible. 00:41:53.794 --> 00:41:59.293 - But the problem is, the rent is expensive or not, people will get tired of those big buildings. Now, 00:41:59.293 --> 00:42:04.792 - if those buildings people are not going to go live in them, what's going to happen? Ghost buildings? 00:42:04.792 --> 00:42:10.400 - What's going to be? Because after 10 years, people will get tired of those. People still have like old 00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:16.280 - homes and things like that. I mean, there is so many of them. And what's bothering me is the old buildings, 00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:19.710 - I found the buildings around Allen Street or somewhere around. 00:42:21.058 --> 00:42:26.726 - I don't know what's going to happen to those. And what's happening is hurting the people of Bloomington, 00:42:26.726 --> 00:42:32.179 - who have basically invested for their retirements, older people. But it's going to hurt them. Do you 00:42:32.179 --> 00:42:37.578 - have a plan for things to stay the same? Yeah. I think that we're out of time right now, because we 00:42:37.578 --> 00:42:43.084 - still want to get to talk to this gentleman over here. But I'll see you again very briefly. Thank you 00:42:43.084 --> 00:42:43.678 - very much. 00:42:54.434 --> 00:43:00.328 - Well, we already have Dean Kerrigan on stage with us, so I'll just scoot this way a little bit, I guess. 00:43:00.328 --> 00:43:06.165 - How are you doing tonight, Dean? I feel good. I feel nice and cool in this air-conditioned environment. 00:43:06.165 --> 00:43:11.891 - Good, good, good. And thanks for inviting me, too. Oh, no, it's lovely to have you on the show. I got 00:43:11.891 --> 00:43:16.830 - to share for a second. I remember the first time I heard this gentleman playing guitar. 00:43:16.994 --> 00:43:24.078 - I was having a horrible day. I'm walking up Kirkwood. And all of a sudden, I see this guy, and I'm sitting 00:43:24.078 --> 00:43:30.898 - there with his guitar and the band. And there's almost like this bubble around him of positive energy. 00:43:30.898 --> 00:43:37.783 - So I had to throw that compliment out there for everyone. I initiated that as a nomadic extraordinaire. 00:43:37.783 --> 00:43:43.742 - You go around the country in your van playing music, just sort of sharing with everybody. 00:43:44.930 --> 00:43:55.584 - What's your favorite memory from doing that so far? Do you have a favorite or what inspired this? I'm 00:43:55.584 --> 00:44:06.133 - not sure where to begin. Well, it's very saturated with all sorts of positive memories. So it's kind 00:44:06.133 --> 00:44:10.206 - of like anybody. I have ups and downs. 00:44:40.738 --> 00:44:47.352 - instead of being a big rock star or something, and having independence gives you freedom, I guess. You 00:44:47.352 --> 00:44:53.773 - talked about before that you did kind of have an opportunity to sort of start to become a semi-rock 00:44:53.773 --> 00:45:00.194 - star sort of thing as a drummer before you played guitar, and then you gave that up. Just wondered, 00:45:00.194 --> 00:45:06.615 - based on the whole dialogue we were having with Jill about the left brain and the right brain, what 00:45:06.615 --> 00:45:08.734 - exactly inspired you to do that? 00:45:12.898 --> 00:45:19.988 - there are a lot of things that you perceive to be opportunities, especially if you're a career-oriented 00:45:19.988 --> 00:45:26.805 - person or if you're moving through a hierarchy or progressing. But a lot of times, if you listen to 00:45:26.805 --> 00:45:33.622 - your heart, you might have some sort of issue with things that you have to do, compromises you make 00:45:33.622 --> 00:45:38.462 - with people that you have to deal with. And if you feel uncomfortable, 00:45:44.962 --> 00:45:52.750 - not discount it and not devalue it, because that's probably when you're going to wind up on all sorts 00:45:52.750 --> 00:46:00.844 - of pharmaceutical drugs and really living a lie or becoming a person that you aren't. We're human beings, 00:46:00.844 --> 00:46:08.480 - not human doings. So maybe that's a lot of words to answer a simple question. I found myself when I 00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:13.214 - was signed to just really seeing a side of the music business 00:46:14.946 --> 00:46:21.740 - distasteful to me. And that doesn't mean that applies to every person who's successful in a major legal 00:46:21.740 --> 00:46:28.011 - way or a big rock star. I mean, a lot of people find their peace or their comfort zone in that. 00:46:28.011 --> 00:46:34.805 - And that's OK. I mean, everyone finds their level. But sometimes you can see something like, let's say, 00:46:34.805 --> 00:46:41.337 - in politics, for example. I think there's an expression like politics and sausage making. You don't 00:46:41.337 --> 00:46:44.734 - want to see what the behind the scenes business is. 00:46:47.426 --> 00:46:55.547 - there's the right reasons to do things and the wrong reasons to do things. And I think that opting to 00:46:55.547 --> 00:47:03.828 - maybe back away from that little spike of success that I had as a drum set player was a really positive 00:47:03.828 --> 00:47:08.446 - move for me to do. And as an artist, pursuing songwriting 00:47:17.474 --> 00:47:23.102 - only as a musician that it begins to focus and focus and say, okay, I'm going to go to music school. 00:47:23.102 --> 00:47:28.786 - I'm going to be the best drummer in the world kind of thing. And there's nothing wrong with being the 00:47:28.786 --> 00:47:34.358 - best person that you can be. But if you have a tendency to over focus and a tendency to become very 00:47:34.358 --> 00:47:37.534 - competitive, which is the kind of world that we live in, 00:47:49.442 --> 00:47:57.237 - many steps back and essentially what I do as a troubadour is just figuring out a way to redefine and 00:47:57.237 --> 00:48:05.033 - reinvent myself in a way that's really low impact and really easy to do because it's, I mean, taking 00:48:05.033 --> 00:48:10.590 - it right down to an acoustic guitar and the voice probably is basically 00:48:22.882 --> 00:48:31.041 - I think it does. So I'm curious. This show is the Bloomingtown Variety Hour, and here you have landed 00:48:31.041 --> 00:48:39.440 - in Bloomington after playing probably pretty much everywhere. What do you think of Bloomington? Favorite 00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:46.719 - moments in Bloomington? Favorite place to eat? What do you think of Bloomington as a town? 00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:50.718 - I think Bloomington is definitely an unsuspecting 00:48:54.914 --> 00:49:02.468 - one of the last bastions of freedom. Because you can go down the street, and you can see in people's 00:49:02.468 --> 00:49:10.097 - windows a hate-free zone. And people wave to you hello on the street and say hi. And you mean it. And 00:49:10.097 --> 00:49:17.950 - they make eye contact. And these are little aspects of community that you don't even find in small towns 00:49:17.950 --> 00:49:24.158 - anymore, because a lot of small towns are rife with a lot of suspicion or unworked 00:49:26.434 --> 00:49:33.315 - reasons that people leave small towns. There's just a profound sense of community here, which I really 00:49:33.315 --> 00:49:40.129 - like. And after performing in over 100 cities and playing or visiting probably at least 100 more, I'd 00:49:40.129 --> 00:49:46.943 - like to think that I have an experienced eye for that kind of thing. And I can call it and say, yeah, 00:49:46.943 --> 00:49:53.022 - this is a good place. And of course, I might walk out and get shot right now or something. 00:49:56.418 --> 00:50:02.364 - is that life has a funny way to come back. But it's a really, it's in a place and there's a reason why 00:50:02.364 --> 00:50:08.136 - I've been here more than just like the prerequisite, you know, three day maximum or whatever that I 00:50:08.136 --> 00:50:13.967 - get to, you know, to experience a place and be a visitor and not ask judgment and just say, oh yeah, 00:50:13.967 --> 00:50:19.913 - nice place. Well, and you know, I'd like this about it for, you know, to leave that there and continue 00:50:19.913 --> 00:50:20.894 - on. But there's, 00:50:29.986 --> 00:50:35.711 - Yeah, I think that we're short on time now, but I had to get an outside perspective there for a second, 00:50:35.711 --> 00:50:41.380 - because I feel like having been in Bloomington even just for a couple years, I've stopped appreciating 00:50:41.380 --> 00:50:46.940 - it as much as I could. So I thought that was a lovely contribution you made there. So we're about to 00:50:46.940 --> 00:50:52.554 - get into a roundtable discussion here, and we're just going to talk about a few local things, I think 00:50:52.554 --> 00:50:58.334 - maybe one or two national things, depending on time. Robin Vermillion, who's with Citizens for Effective 00:50:58.466 --> 00:51:09.201 - justice. We'll also be joining us on stage. She just recently finished a degree in criminal justice. 00:51:09.201 --> 00:51:20.254 - We're back again with all of our esteemed guests plus one extra Robin. As I mentioned before, I thought 00:51:20.254 --> 00:51:23.230 - I'd give her another intro. 00:51:23.714 --> 00:51:29.945 - Originally we're going to start out talking about I-69 and we will get to that in a minute, but I'm 00:51:29.945 --> 00:51:36.176 - noticing that our panel here seems stacked with a couple people from Citizens for Effective Justice 00:51:36.176 --> 00:51:42.469 - and also Jill who knows a lot about brain disorders and psychological problems that might contribute 00:51:42.469 --> 00:51:47.454 - to the problems that would be brought up within Citizens for Effective Justice. 00:51:56.930 --> 00:52:03.787 - So I think it would be great if we could sort of begin this discussion just asking the question, why 00:52:03.787 --> 00:52:10.781 - do we allow so many people to be in jail that need help? What can we do as a community to change that? 00:52:10.781 --> 00:52:17.638 - How can we go about this? Do laws need to be changed as well? Should some things not be illegal that 00:52:17.638 --> 00:52:25.310 - are illegal? Should there not be jail time carried with it? Just along those lines. Can I take the big question? 00:52:26.274 --> 00:52:33.126 - I'll keep this off because it reminds me of a conversation that I was having with a local business owner, 00:52:33.126 --> 00:52:39.784 - a retailer on the street, Kirkwood. He was talking about people that had their windows broken and also 00:52:39.784 --> 00:52:46.313 - talking about robbery. So B&E, breaking and entering, and also robbery at gunpoint. And I was really 00:52:46.313 --> 00:52:52.777 - shocked because it just seems like such a sense of community around here and everything. Of course, 00:52:52.777 --> 00:52:54.846 - that kind of stuff can't happen 00:52:55.298 --> 00:53:02.676 - there is community. And then we started talking about it. And the first thing that I thought of was 00:53:02.676 --> 00:53:10.275 - that when the idea of community breaks down, when people don't know each other, that it's a lot easier 00:53:10.275 --> 00:53:17.801 - to look away or not pay attention to what's going on. So for example, if I don't know you personally, 00:53:17.801 --> 00:53:23.998 - and it's really less my problem. But if you're a relative of mine or a close friend 00:53:24.098 --> 00:53:32.075 - or whatever, all of a sudden I'm more motivated to be involved in your problem, it becomes my problem. 00:53:32.075 --> 00:53:39.898 - And I think that the more a community works together as a group, and we get involved in each other's 00:53:39.898 --> 00:53:48.107 - affairs, and now I've heard your opinions and your side of stuff, and yours, and I haven't met the people 00:53:48.107 --> 00:53:53.374 - in the audience yet, but before this program or after this program, 00:53:53.634 --> 00:53:59.250 - It's anybody can come and talk to me while I'm playing on the street, or we can run into each other 00:53:59.250 --> 00:54:04.866 - in the library, outside the doors, or whatever. And I think that's what builds a community, because 00:54:04.866 --> 00:54:10.707 - people perceive each other as being people. And that if you just see people as strangers, and you don't 00:54:10.707 --> 00:54:16.435 - make eye contact, and you don't say hi to them, and you don't go and patronize their business, or you 00:54:16.435 --> 00:54:20.254 - go to Walmart, or whatever, I mean, at that point, you're basically 00:54:20.834 --> 00:54:28.286 - dehumanizing things, and I think that's when problems start to take seed and grow up into larger issues. 00:54:28.286 --> 00:54:35.454 - And then eventually you have things like incarceration problems, or you're wondering what to do with 00:54:35.454 --> 00:54:42.693 - people that are in jail. Why are they in jail in the first place? What causes someone to go and break 00:54:42.693 --> 00:54:48.158 - a window? There's random violence for all reasons, and then there's targeted 00:54:49.314 --> 00:54:57.239 - of terrorism, which was what happened at the mosque. I read that on the front page of the newspaper. 00:54:57.239 --> 00:55:05.321 - And I was like, yeah, that's exactly what it was. It was terrorism right here, probably from Americans 00:55:05.321 --> 00:55:13.403 - on Americans. And that kind of attitude is the result of the dehumanization of our society that erodes 00:55:13.403 --> 00:55:18.974 - the fabric of community. I have a comment on that. Sorry to interrupt. 00:55:22.242 --> 00:55:34.643 - May I go next? I want to say something. OK, first half, and then Robin. Yeah, you know, dealing with 00:55:34.643 --> 00:55:47.290 - people who are really homeless, and not just homeless in the sense that at the present time they don't 00:55:47.290 --> 00:55:51.710 - have an address, but people who are 00:55:52.194 --> 00:56:00.969 - are homeless because they're isolated first of all from their parents and then from teachers and then 00:56:00.969 --> 00:56:09.831 - from citizens and then from society by being put in jail. I mean, all of these people are just hostile 00:56:09.831 --> 00:56:19.294 - as hell. And that kind of hostility, I think, is more important when it comes to the breakdown of our society 00:56:20.130 --> 00:56:30.497 - in the way we've been talking about than anything else. I think it's a matter of people relating to 00:56:30.497 --> 00:56:40.969 - people in ways that make them angry and hostile and revengeful and anxious to somehow take it out on 00:56:40.969 --> 00:56:46.878 - somebody. Yeah, this is going to sound like one of those 00:57:09.794 --> 00:57:21.091 - was on here we go cool cool cool okay I am so sorry um to make a long story short I was minding my own 00:57:21.091 --> 00:57:32.388 - business downtown and sitting on a park bench with a friend of mine of you know five years I can't say 00:57:32.388 --> 00:57:37.982 - any names or any sort of thing because I won't but 00:57:40.962 --> 00:57:47.558 - I basically made the comment, oh, you know, there's a couple girls drunk here last night. Two girls 00:57:47.558 --> 00:57:54.154 - approached me. I took karate for six years. I'm nonviolent. I did it for discipline. They basically 00:57:54.154 --> 00:58:00.816 - came up to me in a threatening way and said, want to go out in the back alley? I didn't know who the 00:58:00.816 --> 00:58:07.412 - heck they were. I knew that one of them was the person that apparently was drunk the other night or 00:58:07.412 --> 00:58:09.918 - whatever. You know, my voice carries. 00:58:11.650 --> 00:58:22.710 - I knew that something was going to go down. I asked my friend. I kind of tapped him on the elbow and 00:58:22.710 --> 00:58:33.661 - said, can you please walk me in my car? This was August 2002. OK, I'm going to. I suffered a broken 00:58:33.661 --> 00:58:40.670 - nose in two places. Surgery. Right now I'm on science medicine. 00:58:43.330 --> 00:58:52.076 - Praise God I got my criminal justice degree. It was a wake-up call. It really was. And people don't 00:58:52.076 --> 00:59:00.822 - understand that when a crime happens, it affects the rest of your life. When you work at a place, I 00:59:00.822 --> 00:59:09.568 - worked at Walmart, okay? And if I had to work till 10 o'clock at night or whatever, somebody had to 00:59:09.568 --> 00:59:11.230 - walk me to my car. 00:59:13.666 --> 00:59:25.259 - I was paranoid to the point I would not drive down Kirkwood, Indiana, any of these streets for the next 00:59:25.259 --> 00:59:36.628 - four blocks. I can't get a job working with victims in our city despite the fact that I'm healed from 00:59:36.628 --> 00:59:41.310 - it. But in this organization, I'm able to 00:59:44.738 --> 00:59:56.250 - learn and be a part of some big picture with a lot of little bubbles and all these, I call the little 00:59:56.250 --> 01:00:08.100 - bubbles the different organizations that we work with. I really like what Hal said because in this town, 01:00:08.100 --> 01:00:13.630 - there's people that will do stuff for attention. 01:00:14.754 --> 01:00:24.758 - And to make a long story short, they'll do it for a political statement. My husband and a bunch of guys 01:00:24.758 --> 01:00:34.762 - were parked at the armory with a work there. 15 vehicles got vandalized. One guy in particular had just 01:00:34.762 --> 01:00:44.478 - restored his truck, the interior. And they did this to make a statement, but all these vehicles were 01:00:44.610 --> 01:00:57.520 - barely damaged. In this town, I've lived here all my life. I've seen the changes. I've seen my dad lost 01:00:57.520 --> 01:00:59.134 - his job from 01:01:14.562 --> 01:01:22.856 - hearing about your experience and hearing about these violent crimes that have occurred to you, I wonder 01:01:22.856 --> 01:01:30.914 - actually how many people in jail are part of those violent crimes like we talked about before and how 01:01:30.914 --> 01:01:39.129 - we as a community can stop that from happening or what the cause would be more perhaps. Could I address 01:01:39.129 --> 01:01:42.526 - it just from a mental illness perspective? 01:01:42.786 --> 01:01:51.431 - Back in the 60s, there was this big de institutionalization movement where all of the major psychiatric 01:01:51.431 --> 01:01:54.590 - hospitals were going to be shut down. 01:01:54.754 --> 01:02:01.411 - The theory was that mental illness existed because there were places for people who were mentally ill, 01:02:01.411 --> 01:02:08.132 - which doesn't make much sense to some of us, but that was the idea. So if we got rid of the psychiatric 01:02:08.132 --> 01:02:15.176 - hospitals, then we would get rid of mental illness. Well, of course, what that did was it pushed individuals 01:02:15.176 --> 01:02:17.438 - who had major psychiatric problems 01:02:17.538 --> 01:02:23.762 - out into the streets and the the agreement was that we were going to close the institutions, but we 01:02:23.762 --> 01:02:30.049 - will have community based programming to receive these people to help these people and to help these 01:02:30.049 --> 01:02:35.838 - people get back into some kind of treatment program and quality of care and quality of life. 01:02:36.226 --> 01:02:43.874 - And that didn't happen. So the deinstitutionalization happened, but the community care programming didn't 01:02:43.874 --> 01:02:51.377 - happen. So as a result, the people who are in the psychiatric hospitals become our homeless population. 01:02:51.377 --> 01:02:58.880 - And many of them, because they have minds that are not functioning in a normal way, they get themselves 01:02:58.880 --> 01:03:05.662 - into trouble because they're hungry and they're scared. So when you approach any wild animal, 01:03:05.954 --> 01:03:13.785 - and you corner a wild animal, what does that wild animal do? It's going to attack you. So many of these 01:03:13.785 --> 01:03:21.389 - individuals end up in our jail system. It's estimated across the U.S. 25 to 33% of the people in the 01:03:21.389 --> 01:03:28.919 - jail systems have a serious psychiatric illness. They don't belong in a jail system. They belong in 01:03:28.919 --> 01:03:34.942 - a treatment program. So what I love about the Citizens for Effective Justice is 01:03:35.138 --> 01:03:42.468 - as they look at the jail population and say, how can we help these individuals learn about themselves, 01:03:42.468 --> 01:03:49.655 - learn from their mistakes based on the decisions that they have made that got them into trouble? How 01:03:49.655 --> 01:03:56.985 - am I doing, Dad? This is really his story, but yeah, listen to the man. And how can we then take these 01:03:56.985 --> 01:03:59.262 - individuals and create problems 01:03:59.394 --> 01:04:05.234 - in our community so that when they get out of jail, they have had some training in jail, but there is 01:04:05.234 --> 01:04:11.074 - a place for them. There is no place in our society, in our community, for individuals stepping out of 01:04:11.074 --> 01:04:14.910 - the jail system in order to get quality treatment, in order to get 01:04:14.978 --> 01:04:22.604 - effective tools and mechanisms of living life. So what I love about this program is that this is a healthy 01:04:22.604 --> 01:04:29.945 - group of people who are willing to come together on Saturdays and talk about these issues and what can 01:04:29.945 --> 01:04:37.358 - we do as a community to, you know, one of the biggest political issues that you hear about all the time 01:04:37.358 --> 01:04:39.710 - is the overcrowding of our jail. 01:04:39.938 --> 01:04:47.721 - So instead of building a bigger, better, stronger jail, hold more people, why aren't we really looking 01:04:47.721 --> 01:04:55.352 - at who is in the jail and what can we do to help these people get back into the community? So that's 01:04:55.352 --> 01:04:58.526 - kind of more of a historical perspective. 01:05:20.226 --> 01:05:27.767 - Jail is jail. And I could agree about certain people who should go to jail should be locked up. There 01:05:27.767 --> 01:05:35.529 - is no question about it. But certain don't deserve to be in jail. They shouldn't be in jail. But anyway, 01:05:35.529 --> 01:05:43.292 - the biggest thing is to find a way how to deter the one which is taking people to jail is to deter them, 01:05:43.292 --> 01:05:49.502 - to punish them. But why not deter them before they get to that point to go to jail? 01:05:50.370 --> 01:05:59.125 - And I think, like, when I was running for mayor's office, one, my platform was about the youth. There 01:05:59.125 --> 01:06:07.708 - is no youth program. And I was strongly pushing for, like, then they were gonna close the ice rink, 01:06:07.708 --> 01:06:16.377 - which was ridiculous. It's one great thing that keeps the kids busy and away from trouble. And also, 01:06:16.377 --> 01:06:19.038 - they were after skateboarders. 01:06:19.170 --> 01:06:25.841 - And he said, okay, if you are against skateboarders, so why don't you build a park for them? You don't 01:06:25.841 --> 01:06:32.446 - want them to be on the street? Build a park for them. You don't have to agree with the skateboarders. 01:06:32.446 --> 01:06:39.052 - This is a great country. We have diversity in this. Everyone, when you want to pursue, just encourage 01:06:39.052 --> 01:06:45.852 - them. And having a park for them, which is, I like my tax money, goes to that program to help the youth, 01:06:45.852 --> 01:06:48.702 - but those youth who could join those parks, 01:06:48.930 --> 01:06:55.281 - And they said, well, there is one thing we could do. We make a deal. Instead of investing on having 01:06:55.281 --> 01:07:01.632 - more cops, we can invest on somebody who could be a psychiatrist, have an office there. Well, those 01:07:01.632 --> 01:07:08.110 - kids who will join the park, their membership, if they're in trouble, is to check with psychiatrists. 01:07:08.110 --> 01:07:14.778 - And then they're passed to the park. And I thought that would have been a great idea, instead of putting 01:07:14.778 --> 01:07:18.462 - too much money in the police force, we can put more money 01:07:18.914 --> 01:07:26.450 - to deter. And I think having such a thing will help the kids being busy and if they have a problem they 01:07:26.450 --> 01:07:33.769 - have someone to talk to before they basically do something. Now when the kids don't have anything to 01:07:33.769 --> 01:07:41.522 - do what they will think? Being mischievous. Either being mischievous or to get back at the society because 01:07:41.522 --> 01:07:44.638 - those are successful I have nothing to do. 01:07:45.058 --> 01:07:52.458 - And he is a rich kid. He has a right for this. So they do something wrong. Like there is a saying back 01:07:52.458 --> 01:07:59.643 - home. They say the shepherds, when he has nothing to do, when he's shepherding his sheep, he either 01:07:59.643 --> 01:08:06.828 - break his cane or cut his clothes, rip his clothes, because he has nothing to do. And if these kids 01:08:06.828 --> 01:08:13.438 - here have nothing to do, what are they going to do? They will get detention, like she said. 01:08:13.602 --> 01:08:21.712 - Or they basically go ahead and get something that they dislike and do anything. Graffiti, a lot of them 01:08:21.712 --> 01:08:29.354 - getting into graffiti, which is really wrong in this business of graffiti. They disagree with it. 01:08:29.354 --> 01:08:37.464 - But I mean, the way I think we should save those kids from going back to jail is to give them something 01:08:37.464 --> 01:08:43.390 - to do, is to pay attention to them to see what their problem before they go 01:08:43.490 --> 01:08:50.712 - do something else. And that will start from the youth, I think. And the parents are not really responsible, 01:08:50.712 --> 01:08:57.466 - because first of all, the problem also goes back to the core of it, is the government doesn't let us 01:08:57.466 --> 01:09:04.421 - guide our kids, doesn't let us correct our kids. So then later, when our kids do wrong, then they point 01:09:04.421 --> 01:09:11.510 - a finger on us saying, you! They hide themselves for not letting us, which is, my father gave me a really 01:09:11.510 --> 01:09:12.446 - great analogy 01:09:12.802 --> 01:09:19.951 - how I raise a child. He said, son, a child is like that baby tree. It's so flexible and tender. He said, 01:09:19.951 --> 01:09:26.963 - if you let that tree grow crooked, and you don't straighten it from day one, once it grows crooked and 01:09:26.963 --> 01:09:34.112 - dries out, you straighten it and you break it. You lose that tree. And that is really what is happening. 01:09:34.112 --> 01:09:41.124 - Our children, they overpower the parents. And they do what they want to do. And then the parents, they 01:09:41.124 --> 01:09:42.622 - have no more control. 01:09:43.362 --> 01:09:50.941 - And then the later they go ahead and get in trouble and then they blame their parents for failing on 01:09:50.941 --> 01:09:58.970 - them. There is so many things that links really to get the children away from the jail. Neglected children 01:09:58.970 --> 01:10:06.474 - will go to jail if they have no law, nothing to do. And also the point he brought up as the city is 01:10:06.474 --> 01:10:10.526 - growing and people are not mingling together anymore. 01:10:11.650 --> 01:10:17.421 - They basically, they become too individual, even to help, or not my business, this and that. If this 01:10:17.421 --> 01:10:23.363 - house is that the porch is being closed, that people don't visit each other, neighbors don't visit each 01:10:23.363 --> 01:10:29.249 - other. So everybody's becoming individual, even our homes inside. Our kids sit down in the cars, don't 01:10:29.249 --> 01:10:33.534 - eat with us. So the whole thing is deteriorating. Do you think that a lot? 01:10:59.650 --> 01:11:09.441 - material-based culture and a consumer-based culture, which takes the place of the use and overuse expression 01:11:09.441 --> 01:11:18.783 - of family values. I mean, not even family values, but values in general. There is a huge spiritual void 01:11:18.783 --> 01:11:26.238 - created as our contemporary system is moving towards more and more consumer goods. 01:11:26.754 --> 01:11:33.172 - and that people are happy when they want something and they buy it and then they feel an emptiness because 01:11:33.172 --> 01:11:39.470 - now they have something and it didn't make them happy after they acquired it and maybe it broke or maybe 01:11:39.470 --> 01:11:46.007 - they just want the next thing. This impacts the planet so heavily in terms of our production and consumption 01:11:46.007 --> 01:11:50.206 - is basically causing the destruction of the planet and driving around 01:12:03.138 --> 01:12:09.964 - I assume instead of making do with what they have or raising their kids as tender young samplings and 01:12:09.964 --> 01:12:16.589 - spending time with them, quality time, my dad never took me to the park to throw the ball with me. 01:12:16.589 --> 01:12:23.348 - I really, in terms of fatherhood, I would have to reinvent myself for that because I didn't have any 01:12:23.348 --> 01:12:30.441 - models for that. And he didn't have any models. And how many generations do you have to go back to figure 01:12:30.441 --> 01:12:32.382 - out what happened to the new 01:12:33.570 --> 01:12:40.888 - to figure out where it fell apart, probably to the Industrial Revolution, actually. But how do we fix 01:12:40.888 --> 01:12:48.206 - that now? People have to stop looking at each other as being different. And I have to look at you and 01:12:48.206 --> 01:12:55.524 - say that I am you. And I'm you, and I'm you, and I'm you, and I'm you, and I'm all of you people. And 01:12:55.524 --> 01:13:01.694 - we all have something in common. And that if you look at people, they look different. 01:13:02.434 --> 01:13:07.982 - If you talk to them, they're all real people. All you have to do is take the time to talk to them. And 01:13:07.982 --> 01:13:13.422 - that's something I've learned as a busker, a street performer, is that people come up to me and they 01:13:13.422 --> 01:13:18.970 - talk to me. They talk to me about the dog. And sometimes they don't even listen to the music. And they 01:13:18.970 --> 01:13:24.571 - just talk to me. And everyone has a soul. Everyone has a little light that shines out of them. And it's 01:13:24.571 --> 01:13:30.065 - amazing. And when everybody is busy rushing around, dealing with material things and buying stuff and 01:13:30.065 --> 01:13:31.358 - everything, and they're 01:13:31.490 --> 01:13:37.541 - you know, the whole scarcity of product paradigm, you know? This is like the wealthiest nation in the 01:13:37.541 --> 01:13:43.830 - world. And people are acting as if there's not enough. There's too much. There are distribution problems, 01:13:43.830 --> 01:13:50.000 - you know? And we could feed the world and everything. But the powers that be that want to divide people 01:13:50.000 --> 01:13:55.992 - and cause fear to control them, as you said, and also, as you said, Alan, is like, you know, they're 01:13:55.992 --> 01:14:00.798 - not interested in, you know, putting in a skating rink or a skate park or having 01:14:01.314 --> 01:14:08.625 - replacing one police officer with, let's say, a psychologist or a social worker or something like that, 01:14:08.625 --> 01:14:16.147 - I honestly don't believe that the real powers that are in control right now do not have the best interests 01:14:16.147 --> 01:14:23.176 - of the people at heart. They are self-serving, and that they have their private interests at heart, 01:14:23.176 --> 01:14:30.206 - and their actions demonstrate that they are willing to stop at nothing and be completely, you know, 01:14:30.818 --> 01:14:38.168 - in a sense that they're trying to demonize other people to take the focus of attention away from themselves, 01:14:38.168 --> 01:14:45.113 - because they are actually self-evident in terms of being demons. And that's something that when people 01:14:45.113 --> 01:14:51.924 - have to empower themselves in this country, while there is still a window of opportunity to do that, 01:14:51.924 --> 01:14:58.667 - because as they gain more control, the window fast closes, and something needs to be done. Yeah, so 01:14:58.667 --> 01:14:59.678 - what do we do? 01:15:00.514 --> 01:15:14.099 - I think the problem is even worse than that. The problem is in me and the problem is in you. I don't 01:15:14.099 --> 01:15:27.683 - really care a lot of the time. I really don't care a lot of the time. There are times when I do care 01:15:27.683 --> 01:15:29.566 - and there are 01:15:29.794 --> 01:15:38.831 - There are things which make me care. There are things that help me care. When a day starts, I often 01:15:38.831 --> 01:15:48.139 - am very angry. I'm angry because this damn body hurts. And it takes a while to get the joints to work. 01:15:48.139 --> 01:15:58.622 - And I think we're all like that to a large degree. We really don't care. Now, I attend a lot of different churches. 01:15:59.298 --> 01:16:09.727 - I have yet to find, well, I take it back now, one church is doing it, but I have yet to, until recently, 01:16:09.727 --> 01:16:19.759 - I had yet to find a church which prayed on Sunday morning for the men and women and children in Iraq 01:16:19.759 --> 01:16:28.798 - that we have murdered. We don't even bother to pray for those people. We don't give a damn 01:16:30.114 --> 01:16:39.593 - that they have been murdered. And not just murdered, I mean, how many of them, thousands upon thousands 01:16:39.593 --> 01:16:49.072 - of them, have been destroyed for life? And how conscious are we as human beings in this country of what 01:16:49.072 --> 01:16:59.006 - we have done over there? We simply are not conscious of it. The media takes care of that. The media doesn't. 01:17:03.362 --> 01:17:10.359 - I don't think it's the media's fault, really. I think you're absolutely right. The media is not giving 01:17:10.359 --> 01:17:17.356 - us a real picture. On the other hand, I think even if it did, we would not be much different from what 01:17:17.356 --> 01:17:24.624 - we are. I think we don't want to know. That the point is what happened. People don't want to know. Because 01:17:24.624 --> 01:17:30.398 - the media can feed you anything. It's up to you. If you are smart enough to take it, 01:17:30.818 --> 01:17:38.074 - Or if you really want to play stupid enough, no. Because the obvious is obvious, you know, what is happening 01:17:38.074 --> 01:17:44.730 - now. We spent billions, I mean, dollars over there for what? While people here are needed for that. 01:17:44.730 --> 01:17:50.921 - And there's people who are dying. And how could we accept that? That is the issue, you know, 01:17:50.921 --> 01:17:57.444 - where to start. I mean, we are really all responsible. We are all responsible. And unfortunately, 01:17:57.444 --> 01:17:59.774 - our leaders, we elected ourselves. 01:18:00.642 --> 01:18:10.142 - they're not serving the people who are like them. 01:18:30.242 --> 01:18:35.711 - Revolution only comes when people are uncomfortable. And if people are comfortable, they're not going 01:18:35.711 --> 01:18:41.073 - to revolt. If there's nothing in them, they're comfortable. But if you are uncomfortable, you might 01:18:41.073 --> 01:18:46.543 - revolt. But if you change your life, I mean, there could be incremental change that might offset some 01:18:46.543 --> 01:18:52.334 - sort of a peak in a valley thing where, you know, you've got harsh conditions here and then cozy conditions 01:18:52.334 --> 01:18:57.374 - here. I mean, we're living like at the end of a golden age here. There's information as well. 01:19:00.770 --> 01:19:15.742 - pleasant air conditioning. We talk to each other. We're not here for our lives going inside. Hopefully. 01:19:30.562 --> 01:19:37.861 - that that country doesn't get the ability and interaction with this country, with these people here. 01:19:37.861 --> 01:19:45.667 - Vets were over there making sure that these people that are wrong, that have true fear of evil, considering 01:19:45.667 --> 01:19:52.894 - the word fear in Hebrew means admiration. They have admiration for the evil that they don't believe 01:19:52.894 --> 01:19:59.326 - in because of their own misunderstanding of their own religion, of how they view things. 01:20:00.770 --> 01:20:09.679 - to sit there and speak. Our soldiers are not over there murdering children. They're not over there murdering 01:20:09.679 --> 01:20:18.098 - people. War is and costs casualties and lives, innocent lives. Without that war place over there right 01:20:18.098 --> 01:20:26.354 - now, sir, you would not have the ability to sit there and speak like you do. And everybody's opinion 01:20:26.354 --> 01:20:29.950 - up there. So don't, and I just don't agree. 01:20:30.434 --> 01:20:39.326 - We are not criticizing the people who are fighting the war over there. This is not the issue. The issue 01:20:39.326 --> 01:20:48.133 - is something very different. The issue is that we as human beings here don't care what the results are 01:20:48.133 --> 01:20:55.486 - of what we're doing over there. That's the issue. You care, you care enough for what? 01:20:58.786 --> 01:21:06.284 - You care enough to support the war. I care enough to not support the war. You and I are on two different 01:21:06.284 --> 01:21:13.497 - sides of this. I had a daughter that died because of the service of my country because I was given a 01:21:13.497 --> 01:21:21.209 - shot that in turn caused me to have a chemical problem within my brain that on a DNA level when my daughter 01:21:21.209 --> 01:21:28.350 - was born because of what I wanted to serve the country to make a stable world, I had a daughter die 01:21:28.610 --> 01:21:35.873 - So yes, I do care. And yes, I still do support our troops over there trying to make a stable goal, even 01:21:35.873 --> 01:21:43.345 - though my daughter paid the ultimate price. I don't think this is going to be a very profitable discussion 01:21:43.345 --> 01:21:50.539 - for us. I think we've come to the end of this. We have a difference. I wanted to. I had a comment like 01:21:50.539 --> 01:21:57.592 - four people or five people go on the mental health. You don't mind? I'm sorry I had to break up this 01:21:57.592 --> 01:21:58.430 - discussion. 01:21:59.490 --> 01:22:12.691 - My hobby, if you will, is volunteer work and that sort of thing with special needs individuals, whatever 01:22:12.691 --> 01:22:25.390 - you want to call them. I've worked at Stone Belt. Basically, with my criminal justice background and 01:22:25.390 --> 01:22:28.030 - what I've learned is 01:22:28.258 --> 01:22:38.069 - like the tree statement, what that reminded me of is what's going on in our society is that what they're 01:22:38.069 --> 01:22:47.599 - doing, he said mentioning blaming the parents. Sometimes the parents are put in jail for crimes their 01:22:47.599 --> 01:22:56.382 - kids have done. I knew an incident of a young man that was caught smoking regular cigarettes. 01:22:56.962 --> 01:23:06.431 - in my old high school, parents who had adopted him, and they had two other kids, and you can understand 01:23:06.431 --> 01:23:15.627 - the finances, had to pay a $500 fee. The other thing is, we were mentioning the change of the family 01:23:15.627 --> 01:23:24.823 - structure, which is very important, because in, say, my grandparents' time, my grandparents had been 01:23:24.823 --> 01:23:26.462 - married 58 years, 01:23:29.698 --> 01:23:39.521 - People had more stable marriages. The families ate at dinner together, and they had more core values. 01:23:39.521 --> 01:23:49.151 - And what's going on today is I want it now. I want my burger this way. I want my mag this way. Yes, 01:23:49.151 --> 01:23:59.166 - and that's another thing. When I was growing up, I can't say I had the perfect family. The only time we 01:23:59.458 --> 01:24:08.750 - basically got along was we set the dinner table, we talked about our day. Okay, that's what we did. 01:24:08.750 --> 01:24:18.042 - And when you're thinking about raising kids in today's computer generated society, these values, we 01:24:18.042 --> 01:24:28.542 - need to look at our grandparents as far as their values because, and the other thing is with the learning styles 01:24:29.122 --> 01:24:39.965 - The unique learning styles, a lot of times they're treated as being more severe off than they are and 01:24:39.965 --> 01:24:51.020 - then it puts them as a catalyst and it sinks down as far as they're the type to be more prone to crime, 01:24:51.020 --> 01:24:58.142 - they want to fit in, they want to follow the crowd and in a lot of 01:24:58.306 --> 01:25:08.507 - The learning styles, there's so many people with unique learning styles that a lot of them aren't detected. 01:25:08.507 --> 01:25:18.330 - I think I would like to say something positive. I've said a whole bunch of negative things, but I would 01:25:18.330 --> 01:25:25.886 - like to say something positive. And that is that each of us have an opportunity 01:25:26.370 --> 01:25:34.208 - not every day, but every hour, to look at somebody and try to see what their possibilities are and to 01:25:34.208 --> 01:25:41.892 - help them do something that will help them in the direction of developing those possibilities. That 01:25:41.892 --> 01:25:49.807 - is a possibility for us all the time. And that's the kind of thing that I think we all ought to really 01:25:49.807 --> 01:25:54.110 - devote ourselves to doing. And I give you to the floor. 01:25:58.818 --> 01:26:05.198 - Thank you very much for coming outside, everybody. Thank you to all of the guests on our panel. You're 01:26:05.198 --> 01:26:11.453 - all wonderful to talk to. Oh, oh, it's Max Hartstein's birthday, 76. If no one minds, we're going to 01:26:11.453 --> 01:26:17.771 - sing him happy birthday to anyone else that wants to join in. We can't get on the mic. But other than 01:26:17.771 --> 01:26:24.151 - that, the show is over. And thank you, everybody, for coming out. And thanks for sitting up here. One, 01:26:24.151 --> 01:26:24.894 - two, three. 01:27:15.746 --> 01:27:40.830 - Next time you're doing the round table. You did great. No I told you I'm not in the frame. 01:27:45.570 --> 01:28:13.822 - is drugs. These are your liberties. And this is the government. Any questions? 01:28:24.610 --> 01:28:33.061 - Oh, I like that idea. All we try to do from moment to moment is fulfill our desires. Love it. Which 01:28:33.061 --> 01:28:35.934 - makes us higher. Let's go higher.