- I think everything we do is just a form of giving an accent. Oh, I like that idea. All we try to do
- from moment to moment is fulfill our desires. Love it. Which makes us higher.
- tonight. Right. Right. Well, thanks to our band, Chautauqua Band for playing a little opening number
- there. Did I miss them? No, no. It was pretty short. I thought I was going to get to direct them, so
- they just stopped. Do it. Do it. Do them. Do them. Do a little more. The audience requests a little bit more.
- All right. Tonight we have a great show coming up for you. We have Matt Bruner, who is the president
- of the Hoosier Rights Campaign on the IU campus. And we also have Joel Ricus, who is the executive director
- of the Shalom Community Center in the community kitchen.
- A warm thanks and welcome to both of those guests tonight for coming on. And later on, we'll be getting
- to talk to the Chautauqua Band as well. John Smith couldn't make it tonight as it had set on the flyers.
- He had a prior engagement, I believe. So hopefully, we'll catch him on a later show. Which without much
- further ado, we have a little video piece prepared about the equality equal rights rally that Matt Bruner
- and our producer, Gabe Rivera, went to check out about a week ago. All right.
- Some people say our marriage is the cause. I don't know if I like that idea.
- Hi, my name is Matt Bruner. I'm the president of the Hoosier Rides campaign here at IUB. We're just
- about ready to go to Indianapolis for the rally at the State House to protest SJR7, the Constitutional
- Amendment ban on gay marriage in the state of Indiana.
- When I think of what has transpired since last year, we were so free on the bus with that damnable resolution.
- We could think of virtually nothing else. Hi, I'm Annette Krauss, and I'm a member of PFLAG, Parents,
- Friends and Families of Lesbians and Gays. And one of the reasons that I came down here today is because
- I want to assure that all families are treated equally. Back in Germany during Hitler's era, one of
- the first things that he did was institute a ban against marriage.
- against the Jews and I don't want to see that happen in this country. Thank you.
- We are out here in support of all athletes, whether they be gay, bisexual, transgender, or lesbian.
- We are just out here in support of all athletes.
- No problem. I'm glad to be here. Now, you're the president of the Hoosier Rights Campaign. Could you
- tell us a little bit about what you do and how you came about so people in the audience can watch the
- show later on and have a better idea? Yeah, sure can. Me and a group of people last year started the
- Hoosier Rights Campaign. It's basically a group on IU's campus. We work closely with other Indiana gay
- support groups like Indiana Equality and the Human Rights Campaign. Basically, I started the group because
- there's a lot of gay groups on campus for support issues or whatever it may be, but no other group on
- campus does any political advocacy or education really. And I figured that was a group that really needed
- to perform because there's so many issues in the state of Indiana on campus and throughout the country
- that affect
- gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender families every day. And there's legislation popping up all across
- the country. And these issues need to be dealt with, and they need to be dealt with quickly. And especially
- here in the state of Indiana and on campus. So that's why I, along with other people, started the group.
- How long ago did you start the group? I started the group about a year and a half ago. It didn't really
- get off of its feet until this semester.
- What was the actual, like, was there one moment of actual impetus for getting the group? I know you're
- a political science major, so that I'm sure had something to do with it, but was there an actual single
- experience or event that sort of drove you to start, to form the group here to take care of the issues?
- Yeah, I think there was a lot of variety of things that actually led me to start the group. I mean,
- I came out as gay at the end of my freshman year here at IU.
- I was already a political science major at that time. So activism and politics were always part of my
- life, but not really the gay rights aspect of that. But after I came out, I really started to look at
- the issues, gay marriage, nondiscrimination policies, hate crimes. And it just struck me as a lot of
- gay lesbian individuals have no rights right now. And it's something that, as a country, we need to
- work together and to make sure that those rights are extended to all
- And I think that was the major factor that led me to start the group. Plus, I was going to other groups
- on campus, like out and that kind of thing. And they do a great job of support. But there was a lack
- of activism there. And that's something I wanted to see on campus. That's good. That's good. So since
- you started a year and a half ago, you're starting to gain more members now? Or is there still sort
- of a failure to reach everything?
- Yeah, I mean, I think the issue of activism on colleges campuses are always kind of hard to get people
- involved with, whether it be for whatever issue, whether it be gay rights or not. Activism is something
- that is in real short supply these days, I think. And starting a new group is always a hard process.
- on IU's campus, you have to start the group, go through all the paperwork, and then start doing the
- outreach, which is also important in every student group. And we're definitely doing a lot better job
- of doing outreach, partly by Jackie Leach, my outreach director, sitting in the front row. She has been
- doing a tremendous job. And hopefully, with her and everyone else on my executive board this year, we
- will continue to grab more attention
- and get involved with more people with this very, very good cause. It seems kind of fortuitous that
- you guys have been going on for a year and a half at this point when there's all this legislation coming
- through right now. So at least there's already a vehicle in place to fight against it on campus. I was
- wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about the state resolution, what's going on in the
- state house right now, just so we all
- I would love to. Right now, the gay marriage bill that would ban gay marriage in the state of Indiana
- is SJR7. That stands for Senate Joint Solution. And it got brought up in 2005. It got passed by the
- House and the Senate. And now, the constitutional process in the state of Indiana is it has to get approved
- by two consecutive state legislatures.
- So it passed in 2005. The midterm elections are in 2006. So once those newly elected representatives
- take their office in 2007, they will need to get passed again in 2007. And if it gets passed in 2007,
- then it will go on to the voters in the election in 2008. So a referendum will take place? Yeah, like
- the referendum will be on the 2008 ballot.
- And so the earliest that this bill could get passed is in 2008. But also the process says that if the
- language of the bill changes one word, then the process has to start over again. So that's the main
- strategy behind the groups in Indiana to try to delay the amendment, try to change the language to make
- sure that, you know,
- to make sure that it gets delayed. Is the amendment basically just worded as such to ban gay marriage
- then, or is it like to distinguish why marriage has to be like a marriage between a man and a woman?
- I mean, do you know what the language is? The language is marriage shall consist of only one man and
- one woman, and the legal incidence of marriage shall not be allowed. So that the language legal incidence
- thereof basically has been used
- throughout the country and other states' efforts to amend the constitutions to ban gay marriage. But
- a lot of attorneys and lawyers have decided that would probably cover partner benefits and civil unions
- as well. So that's why the language at this amendment is so problematic, because if it gets passed in
- that language, then it will basically say that civil unions, partner benefits,
- and same sex marriage will not be allowed. Obviously, that will be up for the interpretation of the
- courts and the legislature. When you talk about partner benefits, I just want to make sure that I understand
- that everyone in the audience, at home audience understands. What are the exec rights that are at stake
- here? I mean, because I know that sometimes you can think of them very simply like, oh, execs, it's
- better that way. For instance, if I was
- have been partners with another woman for 30 years. And she's in the hospital, but I might not be able
- to see her because we're not married. Is that something that could happen? Exactly. And that's something
- that has happened time and time again, unfortunately. It's very sad that you can be in a partnership
- with someone for a good majority of your life. And if your partner were to fall ill, in some states,
- you were not allowed to see your partner because you were not as close.
- because the US does not consider same-sex couples to be equivalent to opposite-sex couples. And that
- is just one of the many rights that are at stake when you talk about same-sex marriage, whether it be
- on the state level or the federal level. To go back to domestic partner benefits, basically those are
- the rights that the states grant you.
- So when you say the words I do, on the federal level, you get over 1,500 rights going from filing joint
- taxes, social security benefits. Like, for example, if one of your partners were to die, your spouse
- would not get the surviving benefits. Your immediate family would, or it would just go back to the government.
- So there's tons of rights. Transfer of property is another right that is at stake. If your partner were
- to die, and if you don't have the money to draw up all the wills and all the legal documents that is
- needed to transfer that property, you can lose the property as well. I mean, it's unfair. You could
- be with a partner for 50 years, and one partner dies, and then your immediate family or someone else
- in your family can just say,
- Well, the property is mine because they are not really together. Right. Because the government does
- not recognize same-sex relationships in the same way. Right. So how do you think this relates to the
- separation of church and city? How do you place the issue at hand into that world of marriages are with
- this TGV Inland? And churches, where?
- many churches do. So how does the government justify, I guess, interfering in that sense with something
- that's supposed to be from its inception? I mean, I know there's already texts on the book and whatnot,
- but just what's your opinion on the separation of church and state within the gay marriage issue? Well,
- I think that's a really good question. And the separation of church and state issue is
- being brought up now. And unfortunately, that line needs to be in separation of church and state. You
- can't really see it very well these days. But that definitely has a huge impact on the gay rights issue,
- especially the same-sex marriage issue. Because the number one obstacle to same-sex marriage right now
- is the religious issue. I mean, as soon as you hear the word marriage, you automatically think of the
- religious connotation
- And unless, until we can educate people on this issue, that it's not about the religious issue so much,
- it's about the civil rights issue. It's about granting same-sex couples the rights that they need to
- support their family, to raise their children the way any other family would. And until we can start
- educating people on this issue, that civil marriage and religious marriage are two totally different things.
- Because the separation of church and state is there, so government is not influenced directly by religion.
- And religious institutions will always have the right to deny a couple to get married in their institution.
- They can always say no, whether they be same sex or opposite sex. I think that's a really good point,
- and I think oftentimes
- But that's a point that's lost in general, because you always think of this as the religious right,
- so value driven. And a government really can't legislate morality, even if their morals are corrupt,
- as the case may be. That's something that I've always thought is really interesting about why we're
- so concerned about the state of marriage. It's like so many marriages end in divorce anyhow right now.
- 50%. Or people never. It just seems like we're in a different place now. It's really the tax brackets
- and the actual
- present moment that needs to be dealt with, not what we think the institution of marriage really is
- or has come to in our country. Yeah, I mean, you have a good point. I mean, I think a lot of people
- missed the point here. It is about granting same-sex couples the rights that they need. They can't wait
- 40 years from now to wait for this religious argument to go away. They can't wait. Their family needs
- these rights now. Their children needs these rights now. And that's what is important here.
- You can't wait for this religious argument to go away, because it's always going to be there. Marriage
- is always going to have a religious connotation. And we have to stick with the separation of trip and
- stay, and talk about the rights that are at stake. Because ultimately, marriage has a lot of religious
- background. You can go to a church and get married, but ultimately, you will still have to go to the
- courthouse or wherever, sign the document, pay your $15, and get the marriage.
- and then you get the rights. And even if same-sex marriage were to pass, it would not require religious
- institutions to marry same-sex couples. They will always have that right because in this country we
- have a separation of church and state. We're running a little short on time, but I wanted to ask you
- first, when and where does the Hoosier Rights Campaign meet?
- Yeah, sure. We meet every other Monday on IU campus in the Indiana Memorial Union. Our next meeting
- will be not this coming Monday, but the next Monday in this Pasifras room of the IMU at 830. And also,
- it would probably be that now would be about the time to, I guess it's already past time to lobby the current
- administrators and elected officials, but when donating that next election, people should be
- more conscientious of how people feel about that issue if it's close to them, right? Because it will
- be these people that decide it. Yeah, the time to lobby our state legislature, there's still time left
- this term. The current legislature will not end for another about three weeks. So there's still time
- to lobby our legislatures. The Who's Your Rights campaign actually was in the next week or two.
- we'll be getting a group of people to go to Indianapolis and lobby the representatives that we need
- to lobby. And if you need more contact information or more information on the Who's Your Rights campaign,
- the email address is www, well, actually it says IUHRC at indiana.edu. All right, thank you very much,
- Matt. We're going to have to talk to Matt again.
- short video on the segment before we'll be talking to Joel Rikus, dealing with his work at the Shalom
- Center. Come right up.
- Hi, I'm Joel Riccas and welcome to the Shalom Community Center. Let's go downstairs and I'll show you
- around. Yeah, well welcome again to the Shalom Center. The center was created in 2000.
- to create safe daytime shelter for people who are homeless. The community realized over the course of
- several years that although we had overnight shelter in this town, there was no place for people who
- were experiencing homelessness to go during the day. That was the original motivator, if you will, that
- brought the center to life. Since then, it's grown very rapidly into a community center that serves
- all who are living in poverty and experiencing its many manifestations such as hunger and homelessness.
- The center does a variety of things, all interrelated. One major area that we work with is meeting basic
- needs. We provide a mailing address for those who have none. We have telephones for people to use, computer lab,
- diapers and formula for parents of young children, laundry facilities, all those things that most of
- us take for granted. But if you're living in poverty, it can be a very large barriers to overcome. You're
- looking right now at our weekly schedule board. Another major area of activity is bringing in agencies
- that people use a lot but may have difficulty getting access to.
- For any of us, I think negotiating the community in terms of all the systems and institutions can be
- a daunting task. And we recognize that pretty quickly and choose to bring those agencies here. They
- set up here in the Shalom Center, see people on a walk-in basis, no appointment needed. And we found
- it's a very effective way to introduce people, if you will, to the larger institutions in the community
- and get them connected to services that they
- in many cases desperately need. Let's take a walk. This is our main room which doubles as a place for
- people to be during the day and also serves as our dining room. We do breakfast and lunch daily to an
- average of 200 to 250 people a day.
- very, very busy place. Let's go into the kitchen. This is one of the jewels of the Shalom Center. We
- have a fully equipped commercial kitchen and this is where the meals are prepared and put out. This
- activity is done primarily with volunteers from the community, from every segment of our community.
- We have students from IU,
- We have folks from churches, people from the business community, all working together to get the meal
- out, if you will. A very labor-intensive operation, but a labor of love. And let me introduce you to
- a couple of folks. This is Ron Kerner, who manages our kitchen and coordinates our hunger relief efforts.
- And at least one of our volunteers, this is John Davenport over here in the corner, getting coffee ready
- for lunch. John has been with us for a long time. And a couple of others.
- Let's go on out here. The gentleman sitting right there with the glasses is Ken Heller. He's one of
- our volunteer job counselors. We work with people every day around employment. It's a priority need
- for many of our guests.
- That work is done exclusively at this point with community volunteers from all, again, all parts of
- the community. And they do tremendous work. This is our computer lab and actually you get an action
- shot of the Shalom Community Center staff. This is Nancy, Linda,
- Patty and Rita. Hi there. And a lot happens in here. This is a place where people can come in and work
- on getting a resume crafted and printed out, do some educational work. And given our limited space,
- it also doubles as a staff meeting room. And the family dining room during lunch. And the family dining
- room during lunch. Yes. So it's lovely to see all of you.
- And right behind you is the serving line. That's our steam table. And we have a wonderful meal every
- day. We put great emphasis on putting out a very balanced, nutritious meal each day. And we
- try to accommodate those with special dietary needs, including those who are vegetarians. And again,
- as with most programs that
- work in the broad area of hunger relief. We are at the end of the food chain, so to speak. And what
- that means is we serve a lot of people, a lot of food that is rescued. We get most of our food from
- the Hoosier Hills Food Bank, which supplies most of the area's nonprofit feeding programs. And that's
- supplemented by donations from the community.
- and a small amount of shopping from the commercial supermarkets. Last year we served nearly 50,000 meals
- and our average cost per meal was 42 cents. So very efficient operation in terms of getting large quantities
- of food to people who need it the most.
- I had mentioned earlier primary function is providing services for people who are experiencing homelessness
- and one of those very fundamental services is acting as a mailing address again something most of us
- would take for granted but if you are homeless getting a safe stable place to get your mail is a big
- deal and so at any given time we receive mail for somewhere between a hundred and a
- Well, this is Dee. Dee is a legal aid intern from IU Law School. We, this year, entered into a very
- innovative partnership between the IU Law School and Indiana Legal Services, which is the nonprofit
- legal services corporation in Indiana, to try to provide legal services to people living in poverty.
- It's, as we all know, I think a tremendous unmet need.
- People living in poverty have significant legal issues and are typically underrepresented. So this is
- a great partnership in terms of getting information and resources in the legal area to people that need
- them. Again, as with all our services, very user-friendly services are provided on a walk-in basis.
- Dee is here.
- Monday through Thursday and people can walk in without an appointment and present whatever legal need
- that they have and have a good shot of at least getting some of those issues clarified and where necessary
- cases are then referred to Indiana Legal Services to be picked up and carried from there. So D is one
- of our treasures, one of our great assets as with all our agencies.
- since opening has provided, with its package of basic necessities, free laundry facilities for anyone
- in the community in need. And on a typical day, somewhere between 10 and a dozen people do laundry.
- So it's significant usage, and we're hoping to expand that. One of the issues we've had as we've grown
- over these first few years is space.
- and should let the community know that we are expanding across the street. We will be retaining this
- space that we're currently in, but it will be devoted exclusively to our hunger relief programs, very
- specifically the breakfast, lunch, food pantry operations, and beginning job training effort using the
- food service industry as a vehicle. All our other services will move across the street,
- 110 South Washington, which is just at the end of the driveway. All the basics like phones, computers,
- mail, laundry facilities, et cetera, will be over there. And all our visiting social service agencies,
- which number now, somewhere between 20 to 24 each month, will be setting up shop across the street.
- So in effect, beginning in March, we will have our campus where people will be able to come here for meals
- across the street for the other services that they need. So very excited about that. Thanks for joining
- us here at the Shalom Community Center. We always welcome visitors and if you're able, please stay for
- lunch. We love to feed people. Please come and visit us again.
- that was really impressive that you guys do that much for the community. I'm wondering how this came
- about in Bloomington. Are there comparable services in other communities, or do we have just a really
- good example here of how a community can work to serve its less fortunate members? Good question. There
- are similar programs in other parts of the country, more typically found in large cities. For example, there's a
- a very good program in Indianapolis called Rising House, which is actually a bigger version of the show
- I'm saying. First part of your question, what the answer alluded to, I think, in the video, homelessness
- now around the country, and here in Bloomington, in terms of being a major social issue, it was over
- 20 years old, and you're exactly right, it was only in the mid-80s,
- So we've had shelter here in Bloomington since the mid-80s, but people noticed pretty quickly
- I became aware that although we have overnight shelter, we have no place for people to go during the
- day. Would it be especially hard for older people or people with short hair to go to campus?
- Hard for anybody. I think those who stay in our shelters, which typically open at four o'clock in the
- afternoon and close at eight in the morning, it's a shuffle when you think about trying to get your
- things from one place to another, find a place to eat during the day, just a place to be
- on the winter. There was a long conversation here in Bloomington that predates me on various parts of
- the community, communities of faith, for example, government, others in the nonprofit sector, really
- based on that central question of where do people who are experiencing homelessness go during the day?
- And related to that, where do they find the tools that we all need to conduct our personal business?
- Right, if you were unemployed, it would be
- pretty difficult to get a job without having a mailing address. I never thought of that before until
- I was watching the video. And many things, again, most of which we all take for granted, access to a
- telephone or computer. Those are major obstacles in your experience in homelessness. So that was the
- conversation that took place in this community, a very dynamic conversation that, as I understand it,
- bubbled up and down over the years, late in 1991.
- It intensified, and two major parties came together to form the Shalom Center. Our current host, the
- Fresh Nightly Methodist Church, stepped forward and said, listen, we have some space, and we think this
- is a worthy mission, and we'd be happy to support it by offering space. The former Shelter Inc. stepped
- forward and said, well, we don't have any space, but we've got some staff that we could lend out to
- get this started, and that's how it was created. That's great, that's great.
- It wouldn't just be homeless people that you're helping. It's probably also people just in circumstances
- of extreme poverty or poverty even, or just missing a paycheck for a couple days. Precisely, yeah. The
- Center has had a very rapid evolution. Again, it opened its doors in January of 2000. And the beginning
- premise was based on that conversation that I just described, was to provide a space for people experiencing
- homelessness. And very specifically, in the first
- the first couple of months it was really targeted for those who were staying in the adult shelter. We
- realized pretty quickly when we started with 12 people or 15 people a day and then next week it had
- turned into 25 or 30 and the following week 40 to 50 and then more and more people began coming in who
- were not necessarily homeless today so the common denominator was everyone was experiencing poverty
- in some way
- And we realized, well, we need to grow and we need to adapt. So yes, today it's a center for, it's open
- to anyone in the community, but very specifically is targeting those who are living in poverty. And
- that's men, women, and children. We have a diverse group of people come in every day ranging from infants
- to elders.
- It's more difficult in a town like Bloomington to meet the needs of everyone experiencing poverty because
- of IU being there. And I know that it seems like you get a lot of transient people through, you know,
- like somebody that goes to school for three years or something and then experiences difficulties. Do
- you think it's harder to meet the needs of that community because of sort of just the way that IU is,
- the way this town kind of works, I guess, basically?
- I think understanding and getting at the causes of poverty are difficult no matter what part of the
- country you're in. I think there's certainly differences between urban poverty and rural poverty. Bloomington
- in this area is kind of a mix. Certainly there's some urban characteristics right here in the city of
- Bloomington, but also we serve a larger area and we see much of rural poverty, which tends to be more
- hidden, if you will.
- So it's difficult, you know, any way you slice it. One of the things that people aren't aware of, because
- Bloomington on the surface is a very prosperous community. We obviously have a major university here
- and so on. But Monroe County actually has the highest poverty rate in Indiana. It's close to 19%.
- And again, that's just people living at or below the federal poverty line, which is
- very, very conservative. When we add in those folks that are living just above it, for example, it's
- a significant part of our population. So I think the ability to meet the needs is very complex. And
- there are more people, I think, than one agency like the Shalom Center could have. Sure. You probably
- still have a lot of success stories, though, right? Of getting people back on their feet, especially
- with job counseling and everything.
- So I think it's important for people to understand that people who are experiencing homelessness and
- poverty are no different than you or not. They are people. They have their own histories and have their
- own hopes and dreams for the future. They have their own demons that they're struggling with at the
- moment. You know, the distinguishing or common characteristics, if you will, for many of the folks that
- we see every day are
- a lack of confidence and self-esteem that's been beaten down over time, a profound sense of isolation
- for many folks, and a lack of a support system. I ask people often to think about what you have done,
- what any of us have done, what has been a crisis in our life. And we all experience a crisis, whether
- it's a job loss or a divorce or an illness, I think,
- many of us, our support system's a phone call away. That might be family or friends, somebody that helps
- us through that difficult time. But for, particularly for folks who are experiencing homelessness for
- any number of reasons, that support system has been lost. We recognize that, and one of the intangibles
- of the Shalom Center beyond the actual services that are provided there is trying to function as that
- extended support system. Yeah, kind of like a family. Yeah, and over time, you know,
- we see some tremendous change and success stories as you asked about. Folks that on first meeting may
- be reluctant to share their name several months out are not only flowering but are finding employment
- or getting into educational programs or good things are happening. And we understand that that's not
- a formula driven process, it's really an individual
- And one of the things I think that Distinguish has shown is it's very much a person-driven process.
- And what I mean by that is most social service delivery, if you will, and this isn't a criticism of
- traditional social service agencies, but the interactions are business-driven. And not coming to your
- agency seeking help with a legal question or seeking help applying for benefits. Our interaction is
- based solely on
- the service may or may not be delivered, and then we go away. The Shalom Center is much different. We
- make people aware of what services are available, but then we allow people to tell us what it is that
- they think they need and when they need it. And that's a very different approach and particularly effective
- in reaching people who are hard to reach, people that may feel alienated. And many people do, many people
- have had very difficult
- experiences trying to deal with systems and traditional community institutions. So our approach is more
- people-oriented, more patient, more flexible. Right. It seems like just having been a student and being
- away from home, there's times in your life where you're like, well, I don't really have a family right
- now, even if your parents are very supportive of you. Or for any of us, it's like when you hit that
- moment, and thankfully, I don't feel like I've ever hit it for too long.
- But just for anyone, it seems like it would be hard to get through the day-to-day and to motivate yourself,
- especially if you're down on your luck without that sense of family. So it seems like a really great
- thing that you do there by creating that for people. Because I'm sure that giving them that hope is
- actually what that hope and just people to talk to, people to relate to. One of the things we try to
- keep front and center, and again, it's difficult to do sometimes because we're so busy with the day-to-day.
- loan center day in and day out is filled with people who, for example, will pop into the office with
- prescriptions that need to be filled and no way to fill them. And one emergency situation after another.
- And we're very consumed, obviously, by getting those immediate needs met. But one of the things we try
- to keep in front of us is the fact
- fundamental issue is folks have lost their ability to dream over time. And we all need a sense
- of self-esteem, self-confidence to move forward with whatever it is we choose in our lives. So we try
- to be conscious of that all the time. Are you from Bloomington? No, I grew up in New England.
- What led you to want to do this kind of work? Kind of a natural progression. I was college age. I was
- very interested in teaching. I thought that would be my career path. I became less interested after
- going through college and actually going into a classroom.
- If there was a point to what you're doing, a hope or a dream? Just a second. I was fortunate. I was
- in college during a very both chaotic and I think very creative time. It was the Vietnam era and civil
- rights struggles and also a great deal of movement on a national level around issues like poverty. My
- very first job coming out of school was with the, I'm dating myself here, with the old war on poverty,
- which was something
- in the early 70s very much targeting poverty in inner cities and got my start doing that working in
- inner city
- bedroom covered with sores. He couldn't get out of his apartment, so he used one empty room as a place
- to put his trash, and they opened the door, and trash was piled to the ceiling. He hadn't had medicine
- when he needed in months, and had no family or friends anywhere close by. Nobody knew about him. One
- of the next people I met was a teenage mother with her baby,
- So my first few years were spent doing that type of work fueled my passion, if you will, I think around
- injustice.
- But I think it's easy to forget, just in day-to-day life, living in the United States and being able
- to go out to eat all the time, being able to go, oh, boo-hoo, I don't have any money. I'll have to not
- go out to the bars tonight or whatever. I feel like it's easy to forget that there are situations like
- that. And people maybe do even forget. And I'm wondering, do you think that's part of the reason
- Why now, I know you were talking about in the 60s and 70s, there was so much work done by the government
- on poverty. Now we have a president whose budget actually cuts back on Medicaid, Medicare, welfare,
- everything that people who have the misfortune of experiencing poverty need to make it through. What
- do you think that you can attribute that to in the past 30 or 40 years in our society that's sort of
- made us turn cold hard shoulder in innocence?
- It's a very good question. I think some of it relates to the fact that we're Americans and we have very
- short attention spans and for example, when you look at the issue of homelessness and there's a typical
- or a similar process I think that happens with most major social issues as they emerge as major issues.
- When you look at homelessness,
- For those of you who remember back to those times, early on, a tremendous amount of public attention
- paid to the issues. I mean, Hollywood stars coming out and doing benefits. The federal government beginning
- to put some money out for programs and services. And some things began to happen. Five or six years
- later, though, in fact, the monies began to be cut.
- Again, a lot of that is, I think, related to our nature as Americans. When we identify a problem, we
- expect it to be solved quickly. And if it's too complex to be solved quickly, unfortunately, just the
- opposite begins to occur. Rather than compassion, we begin to go the other way. In many cases, we begin
- to blame the victim. And then, I think, somewhat related to that is we become numb to the issue
- example of that is go to any big city, go to Indianapolis, go to Chicago, walk down any major city street,
- and you'll see bodies everywhere. People lying on sidewalks, lying on park benches, and most of us don't
- look twice. I mean, we're not shocked. We're not outraged. We don't go looking for help. It's become
- part of the urban landscape. That's true.
- that it never effectively continued to say that it never occurred to me before, like, maybe, like, I
- should see this person laying on the ground over there and think, oh, what's going on? How can I help
- this person? We no longer, and we've lost something when that happens. Again, we don't see it anymore.
- We're not shocked. We're not moved to action. And again, much of that, I think, just relates to who
- we are as Americans. Like a certain selfishness or just a certain
- state of denial? Well, probably all of that. And again, we expect easy answers. And we're an immediate
- gratification culture, I think. Social problems that we're talking about tonight don't lend themselves
- to quick and easy solutions that are very complex. Do you think it could have something to do with just
- sort of what the legitimating factor is in our society, as far as
- And we have a very capitalistic, almost social Darwinistic take on success in our society. So I mean,
- I guess what we've been hearing since we were like eight, seven, six, five, however old is, if you try
- in the United States, everyone is given the same opportunities, which isn't really the case at all.
- But even that being so.
- Do you think that's why we can turn our backs? Because we've been sort of indoctrinated with that? You
- must have really, really messed up. Because I know that we're in a free society, and everyone can succeed.
- But the harsh reality is, if everyone succeeded, who would be the garbage man who would? Sorry, I started
- ranting, but it- No, you're making great points. I mean, it's still a fundamental American value.
- For young or old, it's ingrained in our culture that if you work hard, you can achieve the American
- dream. And if you suffer a setback, you pull yourself up by the bootstraps, so to speak. And certainly,
- I think conditions and societal factors were different years ago than they are now. When you look at
- homelessness, for example, when you look at a place like Bloomington,
- According to the last research that just came out in the fall, looking at affordability measures,
- for example, for any of us to afford the medium-priced two-bedroom apartment here in Bloomington, and
- to be able to afford it is the key, we would need to be making a minimum of $12 an hour. Now, when you
- examine the employment structure here and look at so many of our jobs, which are service sector-related,
- Still don't value as a society or service sector jobs So they're they're you know, they're priced at
- minimum wage or just above and just do the costs cost comparison Cost of that housing and what the wages
- are you can work full-time? That's really unfortunate
- Because I heard that you said this statistic about how Long Island County had the highest poverty rate.
- But I heard also before, I heard that in the context of a Green Party meeting some time ago, they said
- that also had the lowest unemployment rate. Yeah, the lowest unemployment rate. So it seems like everyone
- is working and there's just not enough money to go around. Yeah, and they're not contradictory, but
- they do require explanation. We do have a very low unemployment rate. Again, much of it is service sector.
- at very low wages, and much of it is part time and seasonal employment. Right, but that does, to a certain
- extent, kind of just fly in the face of anyone who would be like, oh, these people are just amazing
- people. They're not doing anything to me. And a lot of that is mythology. When you look at the research
- all over the country, and for example, on homelessness, a significant percentage of people who are currently
- homeless are also employed. I mean, their wages simply don't allow them
- for the basic necessities. And that's really the root definition of poverty. And it's not a difficult
- concept. It means having insufficient resources to pay for basic necessities. Food, rent or shelter,
- and health care are the major ones. And for those living with a very modest income, one upset can throw
- that household or family
- for those that are working in service sector jobs. Oftentimes that means no health insurance and no
- benefits. If you're sick and unable to work, you can lose your job. If your car breaks down and you
- can't afford to fix it, that can mean loss of employment, that can quickly spiral into homelessness.
- So it's a very, very fragile balance. Well, so many of us live, and I mean myself included so much,
- it's hard to tap into what basic needs are.
- because basic needs are so many different things or have become. Is cable a basic need? Is internet
- a basic need? I mean, obviously not. Well, I mean, to be successful, sometimes cable is getting to the
- point as a student or as looking for a job. It could be more difficult. But I think on that note, I'm
- getting a signal that we're running out of time.
- So we're going to have you back up here in just a moment, again, to see if the audience has any questions
- or if we have a moment just to discuss a couple things. Thank you very much.
- We'll be inviting two guests back on in just a moment. But before we do that, I was going to invite
- Daniel Wick on stage. We were going to talk to the whole band tonight, but we're a little short on time.
- Sorry, guys. They're all crying about it. I know they're so disappointed. But I was hoping that Dan
- would come up and talk to us a little bit about the music. Because usually when I talk to people that
- come to the show, they're like, what the? What's going on with the band? So please welcome Daniel Wick,
- keyboardist.
- Oh, genius. I was getting there. I was getting there. Musical genius. You don't want to talk? Oh, OK.
- No, and there's four chairs, so if somebody else wants to come up, you can, too. Joe? OK. Have a seat,
- gentlemen. All right, so this is just kind of a side project for both of you, right? This is kind of
- a concession to his entire life.
- Yeah, hold on. That's better. We'll need to for the roundtable anyhow. What exactly is going on back
- there? I guess I can ask that question. That's simply a curious kind of music. We're just wondering
- what I guess doing exactly.
- And we'll think for a while. I guess we could ask, what else do you guys do besides playing the Shantako
- Band on this Bloomingtown Variety Hour? No. Well, I know sometimes you draw pictures. No, I mean like
- in real life. What other bands are you involved with? Scoob Trio, once part of Sam Crimes. Just trying
- to get a sense of the music going on with the show.
- Essentially, it's kind of like a, this particular project is kind of a manifestation of collaborations,
- just a kind of non-idiomatic playing. It's not necessarily trying to be complete. It's both completely
- original and completely unoriginal. And I can add in with that is the fact that we use mainly Casio equipment
- and another type, and they have presets, so it's idiomatic in a way, it's in a genre in a way that sometimes
- we use a preset to play a certain kind of music, but then we don't pay attention to that usually. How
- would you guys define idiomatic? I don't want to sound stupid or anything, but I couldn't really come
- up with a definition if... The best definition for playing non-idiomatically would be no intended effect,
- I think would make sense.
- Like flow? Well yeah, I mean you play with your music, you do that all the time when you're playing,
- you know, rock or any genre. But with this particular project, I guess it's, you know, you don't worry
- about what kind of genre of music you're playing. Right. It's funny, Dan's actually my roommate, so
- and Scoon's good friends. I get to hear a lot of
- these gentlemen's music a lot of the time. And I was in the art museum on campus the other day for a
- tour. And we get up to probably the most abstract piece there, I guess, the most wild, crazy. It's this
- huge. It's supposed to be a playground somehow. And the docent asks, he's like, OK, what do you guys
- think of when you see this? And no one answers. And he's like, well, I ask six-year-olds what they hear
- when they see this. And so he asks us that. And I'm just instantly like, I hear my basement.
- It's just this crazy pain. I'm like, I definitely hear my basement, some jazz. I think that might be
- a good way of looking at it. Maybe a six-year-old's take on jazz. Good, good, good. All right. Well,
- you guys don't want to talk anymore. Anything else to say about the music?
- Yeah, with this particular band, I didn't name this. What's the name of this band? It's the Shantakwa
- Band. I actually kind of named it because Shantakwa was a tour that used to travel the country before
- there was like mass media and really like, I mean, you had newspapers and stuff, but before you had
- like the internet or like TV or even as much radio or any radio, I guess they would have circus tents
- and there would be like shows and
- politicians and writers and stuff, and they'd all talk. And it's like to inform people, but also just
- to have fun. So I thought that related to what this show was supposed to do. So that's why it's their
- name. But sorry, go on. We actually had a theme song for this. And we performed it the first night we
- were invited to add music to this. And I like to think that we are just constantly doing different versions
- of that same song.
- I don't know, we've kind of gotten more out now. The first time we had semblances of songs and then
- we had people who didn't know any of our material just started kind of improvising with us. And then
- now it's gotten to the point where I'm just not even in the band. I'm just kind of watching tonight.
- Yeah, we ran out of Casio, so I just don't know. I really like the song that they're talking about,
- that they did his theme song the first time. It's funny that Dan was the one out because he actually
- composed the song, so I guess they've
- full circle. But it's great, and I really like that notion that it's just the same song kind of continued.
- I think we're running short on time again. So if one of you guys wants to stay up here while we bring
- our two guests up, that would be fantastic. Sorry, Schoon. You can pull up a chair if it's important
- to you. But without further ado, please welcome Matt Brunner and Joel Ricas
- Welcome, gentlemen. First of all, I would ask if there are any audience questions about what had come
- up about the Shalom Center and their purpose in the community, or about... I'm gonna grab some more
- microphones. I'll finish real fast, though, so that you guys have time to orchestrate your questions.
- Or about the Hoosier Rights Campaign to Matt, or any issues about legislation, because I think that
- Matt was telling me, as a political science major,
- and as the president of the Hoosier Rights Campaign has a lot of knowledge on that. If you guys were
- interested in writing to congress people or anything, hold on just one moment and come up to the front
- if you had anything to ask. All right, Gabe, do you have a question?
- I have two questions. One, you worked with Peggy Welch, and she has an anti-gay marriage stance. And
- not only for your issue with Peggy Welch, but for everyone. I know that your own family has kind of
- had difficulties with this issue. I mean, you think awareness is going to open these people's minds?
- Do you think your connection with Peggy already will help open her mind? I mean, when do you think these
- people will realize we're all just people?
- That's an extremely good question. And there was a poll taken a while back, and that says that people
- who know people who are gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender are automatically almost more supportive.
- They realize who they are. They realize that they are the same people that they've known for years and
- years, and that nothing has really changed. It's just that they have decided to tell them a certain
- aspect of their life
- decided not to tell them before. And the same thing goes with gay marriage, anti-discrimination laws,
- hate crimes, that kind of thing. I think the same holds true. I think that people just need to go out
- there, tell their stories, tell their personal stories to their family, to their friends, to
- their congresspeople, and get the word out there more. Because the more education we can do and the
- more personal face that we put on the issue, people are going to start to understand what is at stake here.
- what is important, and that kind of thing. I mean, it's all about putting a personal face on it. And
- I think with my family, they're still going through a hard time accepting that I am gay. But I've told
- them time and time again that I'm the same person. Nothing has changed. I'm still the same person. I've
- decided to tell them a certain aspect of my life that I did not before.
- So my mom is becoming more acceptable and more comfortable with it. But my dad, I think he's holding
- onto the religious beliefs just like so many other people do, especially when the gay marriage issue
- get brought up. They hold on and they stick to the religious beliefs. And that's fine. I mean, people
- can have religious beliefs, but they need to sometimes learn where to disconnect them with the government and with
- gay marriage and with other issues. I mean, they just need to realize when is appropriate time to disconnect.
- Thank you. That's perfect. And my second question is for all of you, Rebecca, Dan, you guys have been
- working with me for a long time. And my main interest, and first of all, Joel, I appreciate you for
- being here. You've fed me for a year and a half. This show wouldn't even happen without you.
- Matt, I had such a good time with you and all you guys. It was so great. I so enjoyed myself. So thank
- you so much for that. OK, so I put this show together to try and bring different groups together. And
- I think there's more power in bringing different interests together. Is it possible to bring different
- interests together? Can gays be with the I-69, be with the poor, and create a greater, stronger movement?
- Because this is what it's going to take to- Third party? Or just what's it going to take to-
- Bush has power. These people are organized, have think tanks. They know how to run us. They know how
- to run a country. How do we get together to empower the poor, to a gay marriage ban, like that woman
- was saying about how this is Nazi Germany stuff. And these people are moving with power. So how do I
- get these people together? Dan, I would appreciate your input, specifically, because I'm trying to be
- very intelligent.
- As far as putting these groups together, just from a musician or the radical musician standpoint, I
- don't really think about it. I just kind of, I mean, I like the idea of everyone kind of just participating
- in life as honestly as possible. But I mean, just for me, it's always been
- I'm doing music, and I'm doing my own thing. And I just kind of phase everything out. I don't know.
- I'm just so involved in what I do. Everything doesn't matter. So I don't know what I'm saying, except
- I think everyone should just engage in the particular thing that they're passionate about.
- I think there's definitely some merit to different groups working on different issues coming together.
- Matt and I realized off stage, we realized we had some common interests in terms of work that groups
- do in that, for example, each day we see significant numbers of homeless youth.
- Many of those homeless youth are gay and lesbian youth. They're struggling with the same issues that
- all youth that are out on the streets do, with also added in the cultural issues and the stigma and
- stereotypes that go with that. So I think it's good to have groups like this in the gallery talk. And
- I'm particularly encouraged by the work of Matt's group in that I firmly
- those issues are talked about, the more people that become involved, and particularly get involved in
- the political process, I think that's what really brings about change. Yeah, and I agree with both of
- them. They have very good points, and it's all about getting the dialogue between the groups, finding
- whatever things that they may have in common, and coming together on those things. I mean, because a
- lot of the groups cover different issues, but there's always something there
- It's just finding that one thing that they have in common and bringing their groups together. And going
- to lobby your legislators, writing your legislators, getting the stories out, and educating the public
- on what the group does. And that is the most important thing. I was going to say something I noticed
- between what Matt was saying about how usually people who have a friend or family
- or someone else who they're closely related to who mentioned that their homosexual or unlawful are likely
- to accept it. And I'm sure, dialously, a lot more likely to become politically involved on behalf of
- that family member to realize that it's not whatever they've been conditioned to think it is. But what
- you said about it being a personal face on the issue. And I think I was really struck by what we talked
- about earlier, because you just see someone laying on the side of the street. And you're numb to it,
- but it's like,
- there's a personal face that needs to be put on that person. It seems like it's kind of the same issue
- at hand, like just being able to marginalize people, I guess. I feel like what Gabe's talking about,
- it's so important for us to come together as a community and for members of all communities to do that.
- Because I feel like once you isolate something to a community, it's harder and harder and harder to put
- just a black face over it, or a mask over someone's face. You see that this person is suffering, that
- this person is being told that they're going to hell for what is so personal to their soul, really.
- I don't know that I had any. I guess that was kind of addressing Gabe's comment. I don't know if I was
- asking a question or not. Perfect. Any other audience questions?
- So I have a question to pose to Matt. One of the issues that I found with talking to people about civil
- marriage and that is the word marriage. A lot of times they say, well, why don't you just ask for civil
- union instead of a civil marriage? Could you just explain what the differences are between the two?
- Yeah, sure. And that is a great question. I mean, a lot of people during 2005 and 2004 when the gay
- marriage issue was really starting to pike interest,
- during elections and during a lot of people's thoughts process. The main issue was, why can't gay, lesbian,
- bisexual, transgender individuals just be happy with partner benefits or civil unions? The very clear
- and concise answer to that is that they are not the same. They are not equal in any way. Civil unions
- are given on the state level. So they give you the state level rights that go along with the marriage.
- But they don't give you any of the 1,500 federally issued rights, protections, and benefits that opposite-sex
- couples will receive. And that puts same-sex couples at a severe disadvantage on a variety of issues,
- hospital visitation, social security, transference of property, even with immigration.
- It's the same thing. If your loved one or spouse is overseas, opposite-sex couples have that right to
- sponsor them and bring them back over. Same-sex couples cannot do that, because their relationship is
- not recognized in the eye of the federal government. So simply, it's just not equal. If it was equal,
- but it's not. Plus, if you have civil unions or something
- are basically putting a second class of people over here. You can be called this, but everyone else
- can be called this. And we've already been through this several times. And separate but equal is never
- equal. And it just does not work. And that's why full marriage equality is what we need. Because civilities
- just do not address the issues that are brought up. And they never will.
- That's where we are at right now. Thank you, Matt. I had a question for you. We talked about the legislation
- going through in Matt's interview. Is there anything currently up in the state legislature that maybe
- it would be good if more people were aware of, just to raise awareness? Yeah, there's a lot of things,
- although by the time this program airs, it will be irrelevant or resolved. I mean, I think
- There's a lot of things we're following, for example, I know there's a couple of bills to raise the
- minimum wage. The minimum wage has not been raised in I don't know how many years. Yeah, I think there's
- one bill that increases it to $6.50 an hour this July, and then another dollar a year from July, and
- then a slightly watered down version of that. There's some bills
- which is a great benefit to people with low incomes. There's also some things of concern in keeping
- with the Dana's administration push, I think, to privatize things. There is, although we haven't seen
- the details yet, some, I think, coming moves to try to privatize some state functions around social
- services and consolidate some things, for example,
- offices or some of them for a more streamlined government. A centralized government? Yeah. Does it seem
- strange? We've actually had this discussion before. Does it seem strange to anyone that, like, Mitch
- Daniels is obviously the conservative Republican. I always thought just from textbooks, I guess, and
- from just what my parents educated me about politics, that conservative and Republican usually meant
- less centralized government,
- and more local government, more community government. Even from a state politician's level, you would
- think more county government, less state government. From the level of nationally, you would think less
- federal government, more state government. Ultimately, giving more and more power back to local governments
- would be, I thought, what conservative would mean. Why is it that now conservative means
- W as a conservative is taking more powers, like the gay marriage ban, which to me, I consider myself
- self-sensitive to the issues that gay people experience. And I don't think that we should prosecute,
- persecute anyone. But I almost feel like the biggest issue at hand is just the centralizing power. Why
- would a conservative Republican president want to pass a gay marriage ban that takes states' rights away?
- Why would the state government want to take counties and churches rights away? Because we see the faces
- of each other. We can say, OK, I'm happy with your partner. You guys should get married. Does that seem
- strange at all? I guess maybe you're a little bit older. Maybe you've seen more of the political process.
- I don't mean to in any way date you, but maybe you'd have some comment on that. I think it's really
- just budget driven.
- The language to promote is always around increased efficiency of government and so on. But in fact,
- it's a way to cut expenditures. And oftentimes the way that translates on the local level is what we
- describe as unfunded mandates. In the arena of social services, for example, it's imperative that there's
- a social safety
- shelter or medicine. In my view, government has a fundamental obligation to provide that safety net.
- And the role of the non-profit sector, the role of communities of faith is to supplement that, not to
- replace it. And so I think it really boils down to a budget-driven process. Yeah, and I think we need
- to remain vigilant and watch every year. That's why I'm going to question Matt's group. I mean, watch
- every bill that comes
- be there to testify at this time and calling the legislators. Just as an aside on the political process,
- I think this is a cliche, but many of us assume that our individual vote or our voice, our call to a
- legislator doesn't make a difference. And again, this all sounds like a civics class or something, but
- years ago, a big part of my work in this field
- couple things struck me right away. As I traveled to the state house every day and worked the committees
- and all of that, I looked around and the state house was filled primarily with lobbyists in three-piece
- suits. And then there was a handful of us. There were, oh, maybe six or seven groups, groups like mine,
- which represented homeless shelters around the state, groups like Matt's.
- so on, but you could very visibly see the balance of power in terms of how those decisions are made.
- But the other thing that was more positive that I learned is part of my job was to try to mobilize the
- grassroots, if you will, when crucial votes were coming up. And Zarek, on a daily basis, sometimes the
- power of phone
- and say, well, it wasn't clear what I was going to do on this issue, or I had a plan to support this
- other position. But last night, I got all these phone calls from my constituents, and they pay attention.
- That's good. That's good. It is possible to remove the vote. So for those of us that have become cynical
- over the years, certainly it's good reason for the cynicism. But people still do have a role in the
- process. That's great to hear.
- I believe we're probably getting to the end of our time, and we want to give the Shantakla Band a chance
- to play us out, since we haven't heard nearly enough from them tonight. And if anyone has any other
- comments they'd like to make or anything, you're welcome to go ahead. But otherwise, I think we're going
- to call it a night. I'd like to thank you, Joel Rikus, very much for coming on the show. And I'll see
- you at dinner. And I'll see you in a bit. And CJ Young on the piano.
- Thank you so much for having me.
- We will be keeping you posted on guests for the show as well as hopefully, we're hoping that people
- easy to log in too. Other than that, everyone have a wonderful evening and have a great week.
- There's one particular segment that I just love because it's a high school football. I think he's a
- little boy. He's a high school football player who comes out to his team. There was an ABC segment on
- Nightline or something where they interview the whole team. And it was just wonderfully positive. Wow,
- we didn't know we had gay friends. We didn't know we had gay teammates. We're with this guy. He's great.
- The coach talks about the fact that
- I really learned some things and I need to watch my language. Every tantric system has its own mandala,
- and thus each one symbolizes an existential and spiritual approach. That of vajrapani,
- emphasizes the need for courage and strength in the quest for sacred knowledge.
- Pull my finger. I'll give you a release. I'm not guilty. You're the one who's guilty. All makers,
- politicians, Colombian drug lords. All you lobby against making drugs legal. You're the one who's guilty.
- This is big business. This is the American way.
- Actually, Gabe, the guy who's pulling me on the camera stuff, came up to our porch like two weeks ago
- or three weeks ago. He just picked a porch? Yeah. Wow. Well, he wanted a lighter. And they were just
- like, yeah, cool one. And yeah. That's a good story. I like the way that's going. Yeah.