WEBVTT 00:00:03.106 --> 00:00:10.852 - I think everything we do is just a form of giving an accent. Oh, I like that idea. All we try to do 00:00:10.852 --> 00:00:16.894 - from moment to moment is fulfill our desires. Love it. Which makes us higher. 00:01:00.418 --> 00:01:07.627 - tonight. Right. Right. Well, thanks to our band, Chautauqua Band for playing a little opening number 00:01:07.627 --> 00:01:14.835 - there. Did I miss them? No, no. It was pretty short. I thought I was going to get to direct them, so 00:01:14.835 --> 00:01:22.686 - they just stopped. Do it. Do it. Do them. Do them. Do a little more. The audience requests a little bit more. 00:01:48.322 --> 00:01:55.562 - All right. Tonight we have a great show coming up for you. We have Matt Bruner, who is the president 00:01:55.562 --> 00:02:03.304 - of the Hoosier Rights Campaign on the IU campus. And we also have Joel Ricus, who is the executive director 00:02:03.304 --> 00:02:07.390 - of the Shalom Community Center in the community kitchen. 00:02:07.586 --> 00:02:13.732 - A warm thanks and welcome to both of those guests tonight for coming on. And later on, we'll be getting 00:02:13.732 --> 00:02:19.938 - to talk to the Chautauqua Band as well. John Smith couldn't make it tonight as it had set on the flyers. 00:02:19.938 --> 00:02:26.084 - He had a prior engagement, I believe. So hopefully, we'll catch him on a later show. Which without much 00:02:26.084 --> 00:02:32.348 - further ado, we have a little video piece prepared about the equality equal rights rally that Matt Bruner 00:02:32.348 --> 00:02:36.958 - and our producer, Gabe Rivera, went to check out about a week ago. All right. 00:02:42.690 --> 00:02:48.926 - Some people say our marriage is the cause. I don't know if I like that idea. 00:03:14.338 --> 00:03:25.400 - Hi, my name is Matt Bruner. I'm the president of the Hoosier Rides campaign here at IUB. We're just 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:36.794 - about ready to go to Indianapolis for the rally at the State House to protest SJR7, the Constitutional 00:03:36.794 --> 00:03:42.878 - Amendment ban on gay marriage in the state of Indiana. 00:03:43.842 --> 00:03:59.454 - When I think of what has transpired since last year, we were so free on the bus with that damnable resolution. 00:04:00.610 --> 00:04:07.669 - We could think of virtually nothing else. Hi, I'm Annette Krauss, and I'm a member of PFLAG, Parents, 00:04:07.669 --> 00:04:14.936 - Friends and Families of Lesbians and Gays. And one of the reasons that I came down here today is because 00:04:14.936 --> 00:04:21.857 - I want to assure that all families are treated equally. Back in Germany during Hitler's era, one of 00:04:21.857 --> 00:04:26.494 - the first things that he did was institute a ban against marriage. 00:04:26.850 --> 00:04:41.982 - against the Jews and I don't want to see that happen in this country. Thank you. 00:10:16.322 --> 00:10:28.067 - We are out here in support of all athletes, whether they be gay, bisexual, transgender, or lesbian. 00:10:28.067 --> 00:10:33.822 - We are just out here in support of all athletes. 00:11:29.890 --> 00:11:36.996 - No problem. I'm glad to be here. Now, you're the president of the Hoosier Rights Campaign. Could you 00:11:36.996 --> 00:11:44.173 - tell us a little bit about what you do and how you came about so people in the audience can watch the 00:11:44.173 --> 00:11:51.279 - show later on and have a better idea? Yeah, sure can. Me and a group of people last year started the 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:58.526 - Hoosier Rights Campaign. It's basically a group on IU's campus. We work closely with other Indiana gay 00:11:58.818 --> 00:12:06.135 - support groups like Indiana Equality and the Human Rights Campaign. Basically, I started the group because 00:12:06.135 --> 00:12:13.110 - there's a lot of gay groups on campus for support issues or whatever it may be, but no other group on 00:12:13.110 --> 00:12:20.358 - campus does any political advocacy or education really. And I figured that was a group that really needed 00:12:20.358 --> 00:12:27.401 - to perform because there's so many issues in the state of Indiana on campus and throughout the country 00:12:27.401 --> 00:12:28.222 - that affect 00:12:28.322 --> 00:12:34.140 - gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender families every day. And there's legislation popping up all across 00:12:34.140 --> 00:12:40.299 - the country. And these issues need to be dealt with, and they need to be dealt with quickly. And especially 00:12:40.299 --> 00:12:46.288 - here in the state of Indiana and on campus. So that's why I, along with other people, started the group. 00:12:46.288 --> 00:12:52.220 - How long ago did you start the group? I started the group about a year and a half ago. It didn't really 00:12:52.220 --> 00:12:54.558 - get off of its feet until this semester. 00:12:56.546 --> 00:13:02.634 - What was the actual, like, was there one moment of actual impetus for getting the group? I know you're 00:13:02.634 --> 00:13:08.782 - a political science major, so that I'm sure had something to do with it, but was there an actual single 00:13:08.782 --> 00:13:14.929 - experience or event that sort of drove you to start, to form the group here to take care of the issues? 00:13:14.929 --> 00:13:20.840 - Yeah, I think there was a lot of variety of things that actually led me to start the group. I mean, 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:24.446 - I came out as gay at the end of my freshman year here at IU. 00:13:24.834 --> 00:13:31.230 - I was already a political science major at that time. So activism and politics were always part of my 00:13:31.230 --> 00:13:37.627 - life, but not really the gay rights aspect of that. But after I came out, I really started to look at 00:13:37.627 --> 00:13:43.960 - the issues, gay marriage, nondiscrimination policies, hate crimes. And it just struck me as a lot of 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:50.231 - gay lesbian individuals have no rights right now. And it's something that, as a country, we need to 00:13:50.231 --> 00:13:54.558 - work together and to make sure that those rights are extended to all 00:13:55.906 --> 00:14:02.848 - And I think that was the major factor that led me to start the group. Plus, I was going to other groups 00:14:02.848 --> 00:14:09.589 - on campus, like out and that kind of thing. And they do a great job of support. But there was a lack 00:14:09.589 --> 00:14:16.398 - of activism there. And that's something I wanted to see on campus. That's good. That's good. So since 00:14:16.398 --> 00:14:23.073 - you started a year and a half ago, you're starting to gain more members now? Or is there still sort 00:14:23.073 --> 00:14:25.342 - of a failure to reach everything? 00:14:30.018 --> 00:14:39.947 - Yeah, I mean, I think the issue of activism on colleges campuses are always kind of hard to get people 00:14:39.947 --> 00:14:49.973 - involved with, whether it be for whatever issue, whether it be gay rights or not. Activism is something 00:14:49.973 --> 00:14:59.710 - that is in real short supply these days, I think. And starting a new group is always a hard process. 00:14:59.938 --> 00:15:06.553 - on IU's campus, you have to start the group, go through all the paperwork, and then start doing the 00:15:06.553 --> 00:15:13.300 - outreach, which is also important in every student group. And we're definitely doing a lot better job 00:15:13.300 --> 00:15:20.179 - of doing outreach, partly by Jackie Leach, my outreach director, sitting in the front row. She has been 00:15:20.179 --> 00:15:26.927 - doing a tremendous job. And hopefully, with her and everyone else on my executive board this year, we 00:15:26.927 --> 00:15:29.374 - will continue to grab more attention 00:15:29.730 --> 00:15:35.419 - and get involved with more people with this very, very good cause. It seems kind of fortuitous that 00:15:35.419 --> 00:15:41.392 - you guys have been going on for a year and a half at this point when there's all this legislation coming 00:15:41.392 --> 00:15:47.251 - through right now. So at least there's already a vehicle in place to fight against it on campus. I was 00:15:47.251 --> 00:15:52.940 - wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about the state resolution, what's going on in the 00:15:52.940 --> 00:15:55.102 - state house right now, just so we all 00:15:59.682 --> 00:16:08.416 - I would love to. Right now, the gay marriage bill that would ban gay marriage in the state of Indiana 00:16:08.416 --> 00:16:16.979 - is SJR7. That stands for Senate Joint Solution. And it got brought up in 2005. It got passed by the 00:16:16.979 --> 00:16:26.227 - House and the Senate. And now, the constitutional process in the state of Indiana is it has to get approved 00:16:26.227 --> 00:16:29.566 - by two consecutive state legislatures. 00:16:29.954 --> 00:16:38.330 - So it passed in 2005. The midterm elections are in 2006. So once those newly elected representatives 00:16:38.330 --> 00:16:46.789 - take their office in 2007, they will need to get passed again in 2007. And if it gets passed in 2007, 00:16:46.789 --> 00:16:55.248 - then it will go on to the voters in the election in 2008. So a referendum will take place? Yeah, like 00:16:55.248 --> 00:16:58.814 - the referendum will be on the 2008 ballot. 00:16:58.978 --> 00:17:06.862 - And so the earliest that this bill could get passed is in 2008. But also the process says that if the 00:17:06.862 --> 00:17:14.592 - language of the bill changes one word, then the process has to start over again. So that's the main 00:17:14.592 --> 00:17:22.631 - strategy behind the groups in Indiana to try to delay the amendment, try to change the language to make 00:17:22.631 --> 00:17:24.254 - sure that, you know, 00:17:24.610 --> 00:17:31.041 - to make sure that it gets delayed. Is the amendment basically just worded as such to ban gay marriage 00:17:31.041 --> 00:17:37.409 - then, or is it like to distinguish why marriage has to be like a marriage between a man and a woman? 00:17:37.409 --> 00:17:43.777 - I mean, do you know what the language is? The language is marriage shall consist of only one man and 00:17:43.777 --> 00:17:50.460 - one woman, and the legal incidence of marriage shall not be allowed. So that the language legal incidence 00:17:50.460 --> 00:17:52.478 - thereof basically has been used 00:17:52.610 --> 00:18:00.321 - throughout the country and other states' efforts to amend the constitutions to ban gay marriage. But 00:18:00.321 --> 00:18:08.260 - a lot of attorneys and lawyers have decided that would probably cover partner benefits and civil unions 00:18:08.260 --> 00:18:16.047 - as well. So that's why the language at this amendment is so problematic, because if it gets passed in 00:18:16.047 --> 00:18:22.078 - that language, then it will basically say that civil unions, partner benefits, 00:18:22.274 --> 00:18:28.857 - and same sex marriage will not be allowed. Obviously, that will be up for the interpretation of the 00:18:28.857 --> 00:18:36.032 - courts and the legislature. When you talk about partner benefits, I just want to make sure that I understand 00:18:36.032 --> 00:18:42.878 - that everyone in the audience, at home audience understands. What are the exec rights that are at stake 00:18:42.878 --> 00:18:49.461 - here? I mean, because I know that sometimes you can think of them very simply like, oh, execs, it's 00:18:49.461 --> 00:18:52.094 - better that way. For instance, if I was 00:18:52.322 --> 00:18:58.701 - have been partners with another woman for 30 years. And she's in the hospital, but I might not be able 00:18:58.701 --> 00:19:05.204 - to see her because we're not married. Is that something that could happen? Exactly. And that's something 00:19:05.204 --> 00:19:11.459 - that has happened time and time again, unfortunately. It's very sad that you can be in a partnership 00:19:11.459 --> 00:19:17.715 - with someone for a good majority of your life. And if your partner were to fall ill, in some states, 00:19:17.715 --> 00:19:22.174 - you were not allowed to see your partner because you were not as close. 00:19:22.562 --> 00:19:30.947 - because the US does not consider same-sex couples to be equivalent to opposite-sex couples. And that 00:19:30.947 --> 00:19:39.415 - is just one of the many rights that are at stake when you talk about same-sex marriage, whether it be 00:19:39.415 --> 00:19:47.883 - on the state level or the federal level. To go back to domestic partner benefits, basically those are 00:19:47.883 --> 00:19:51.038 - the rights that the states grant you. 00:19:51.906 --> 00:20:01.488 - So when you say the words I do, on the federal level, you get over 1,500 rights going from filing joint 00:20:01.488 --> 00:20:10.795 - taxes, social security benefits. Like, for example, if one of your partners were to die, your spouse 00:20:10.795 --> 00:20:21.022 - would not get the surviving benefits. Your immediate family would, or it would just go back to the government. 00:20:21.474 --> 00:20:28.251 - So there's tons of rights. Transfer of property is another right that is at stake. If your partner were 00:20:28.251 --> 00:20:34.833 - to die, and if you don't have the money to draw up all the wills and all the legal documents that is 00:20:34.833 --> 00:20:41.350 - needed to transfer that property, you can lose the property as well. I mean, it's unfair. You could 00:20:41.350 --> 00:20:47.932 - be with a partner for 50 years, and one partner dies, and then your immediate family or someone else 00:20:47.932 --> 00:20:49.822 - in your family can just say, 00:20:50.146 --> 00:20:58.075 - Well, the property is mine because they are not really together. Right. Because the government does 00:20:58.075 --> 00:21:06.083 - not recognize same-sex relationships in the same way. Right. So how do you think this relates to the 00:21:06.083 --> 00:21:14.329 - separation of church and city? How do you place the issue at hand into that world of marriages are with 00:21:14.329 --> 00:21:17.342 - this TGV Inland? And churches, where? 00:21:19.266 --> 00:21:26.455 - many churches do. So how does the government justify, I guess, interfering in that sense with something 00:21:26.455 --> 00:21:33.644 - that's supposed to be from its inception? I mean, I know there's already texts on the book and whatnot, 00:21:33.644 --> 00:21:40.832 - but just what's your opinion on the separation of church and state within the gay marriage issue? Well, 00:21:40.832 --> 00:21:46.846 - I think that's a really good question. And the separation of church and state issue is 00:21:47.074 --> 00:21:54.000 - being brought up now. And unfortunately, that line needs to be in separation of church and state. You 00:21:54.000 --> 00:22:01.129 - can't really see it very well these days. But that definitely has a huge impact on the gay rights issue, 00:22:01.129 --> 00:22:08.123 - especially the same-sex marriage issue. Because the number one obstacle to same-sex marriage right now 00:22:08.123 --> 00:22:15.048 - is the religious issue. I mean, as soon as you hear the word marriage, you automatically think of the 00:22:15.048 --> 00:22:16.542 - religious connotation 00:22:16.962 --> 00:22:24.259 - And unless, until we can educate people on this issue, that it's not about the religious issue so much, 00:22:24.259 --> 00:22:31.345 - it's about the civil rights issue. It's about granting same-sex couples the rights that they need to 00:22:31.345 --> 00:22:38.431 - support their family, to raise their children the way any other family would. And until we can start 00:22:38.431 --> 00:22:46.078 - educating people on this issue, that civil marriage and religious marriage are two totally different things. 00:22:46.594 --> 00:22:55.878 - Because the separation of church and state is there, so government is not influenced directly by religion. 00:22:55.878 --> 00:23:05.248 - And religious institutions will always have the right to deny a couple to get married in their institution. 00:23:05.248 --> 00:23:14.098 - They can always say no, whether they be same sex or opposite sex. I think that's a really good point, 00:23:14.098 --> 00:23:16.094 - and I think oftentimes 00:23:16.258 --> 00:23:21.939 - But that's a point that's lost in general, because you always think of this as the religious right, 00:23:21.939 --> 00:23:27.676 - so value driven. And a government really can't legislate morality, even if their morals are corrupt, 00:23:27.676 --> 00:23:33.357 - as the case may be. That's something that I've always thought is really interesting about why we're 00:23:33.357 --> 00:23:39.208 - so concerned about the state of marriage. It's like so many marriages end in divorce anyhow right now. 00:23:39.208 --> 00:23:45.002 - 50%. Or people never. It just seems like we're in a different place now. It's really the tax brackets 00:23:45.002 --> 00:23:45.854 - and the actual 00:23:46.018 --> 00:23:51.897 - present moment that needs to be dealt with, not what we think the institution of marriage really is 00:23:51.897 --> 00:23:57.775 - or has come to in our country. Yeah, I mean, you have a good point. I mean, I think a lot of people 00:23:57.775 --> 00:24:03.889 - missed the point here. It is about granting same-sex couples the rights that they need. They can't wait 00:24:03.889 --> 00:24:09.886 - 40 years from now to wait for this religious argument to go away. They can't wait. Their family needs 00:24:09.886 --> 00:24:15.294 - these rights now. Their children needs these rights now. And that's what is important here. 00:24:15.586 --> 00:24:21.873 - You can't wait for this religious argument to go away, because it's always going to be there. Marriage 00:24:21.873 --> 00:24:28.099 - is always going to have a religious connotation. And we have to stick with the separation of trip and 00:24:28.099 --> 00:24:34.387 - stay, and talk about the rights that are at stake. Because ultimately, marriage has a lot of religious 00:24:34.387 --> 00:24:40.552 - background. You can go to a church and get married, but ultimately, you will still have to go to the 00:24:40.552 --> 00:24:45.374 - courthouse or wherever, sign the document, pay your $15, and get the marriage. 00:24:45.602 --> 00:24:52.521 - and then you get the rights. And even if same-sex marriage were to pass, it would not require religious 00:24:52.521 --> 00:24:59.173 - institutions to marry same-sex couples. They will always have that right because in this country we 00:24:59.173 --> 00:25:05.892 - have a separation of church and state. We're running a little short on time, but I wanted to ask you 00:25:05.892 --> 00:25:09.950 - first, when and where does the Hoosier Rights Campaign meet? 00:25:12.898 --> 00:25:21.679 - Yeah, sure. We meet every other Monday on IU campus in the Indiana Memorial Union. Our next meeting 00:25:21.679 --> 00:25:30.723 - will be not this coming Monday, but the next Monday in this Pasifras room of the IMU at 830. And also, 00:25:30.723 --> 00:25:40.382 - it would probably be that now would be about the time to, I guess it's already past time to lobby the current 00:25:42.306 --> 00:25:47.613 - administrators and elected officials, but when donating that next election, people should be 00:25:47.613 --> 00:25:53.376 - more conscientious of how people feel about that issue if it's close to them, right? Because it will 00:25:53.376 --> 00:25:59.253 - be these people that decide it. Yeah, the time to lobby our state legislature, there's still time left 00:25:59.253 --> 00:26:05.016 - this term. The current legislature will not end for another about three weeks. So there's still time 00:26:05.016 --> 00:26:10.494 - to lobby our legislatures. The Who's Your Rights campaign actually was in the next week or two. 00:26:10.722 --> 00:26:17.201 - we'll be getting a group of people to go to Indianapolis and lobby the representatives that we need 00:26:17.201 --> 00:26:24.069 - to lobby. And if you need more contact information or more information on the Who's Your Rights campaign, 00:26:24.069 --> 00:26:30.743 - the email address is www, well, actually it says IUHRC at indiana.edu. All right, thank you very much, 00:26:30.743 --> 00:26:33.918 - Matt. We're going to have to talk to Matt again. 00:26:56.450 --> 00:27:03.941 - short video on the segment before we'll be talking to Joel Rikus, dealing with his work at the Shalom 00:27:03.941 --> 00:27:05.630 - Center. Come right up. 00:27:25.154 --> 00:27:40.608 - Hi, I'm Joel Riccas and welcome to the Shalom Community Center. Let's go downstairs and I'll show you 00:27:40.608 --> 00:27:53.790 - around. Yeah, well welcome again to the Shalom Center. The center was created in 2000. 00:27:54.274 --> 00:28:01.194 - to create safe daytime shelter for people who are homeless. The community realized over the course of 00:28:01.194 --> 00:28:08.046 - several years that although we had overnight shelter in this town, there was no place for people who 00:28:08.046 --> 00:28:15.102 - were experiencing homelessness to go during the day. That was the original motivator, if you will, that 00:28:15.102 --> 00:28:21.886 - brought the center to life. Since then, it's grown very rapidly into a community center that serves 00:28:22.146 --> 00:28:29.907 - all who are living in poverty and experiencing its many manifestations such as hunger and homelessness. 00:28:29.907 --> 00:28:37.742 - The center does a variety of things, all interrelated. One major area that we work with is meeting basic 00:28:37.742 --> 00:28:46.174 - needs. We provide a mailing address for those who have none. We have telephones for people to use, computer lab, 00:28:46.722 --> 00:28:53.900 - diapers and formula for parents of young children, laundry facilities, all those things that most of 00:28:53.900 --> 00:29:01.434 - us take for granted. But if you're living in poverty, it can be a very large barriers to overcome. You're 00:29:01.434 --> 00:29:08.754 - looking right now at our weekly schedule board. Another major area of activity is bringing in agencies 00:29:08.754 --> 00:29:13.374 - that people use a lot but may have difficulty getting access to. 00:29:14.082 --> 00:29:20.753 - For any of us, I think negotiating the community in terms of all the systems and institutions can be 00:29:20.753 --> 00:29:27.358 - a daunting task. And we recognize that pretty quickly and choose to bring those agencies here. They 00:29:27.358 --> 00:29:34.029 - set up here in the Shalom Center, see people on a walk-in basis, no appointment needed. And we found 00:29:34.029 --> 00:29:40.898 - it's a very effective way to introduce people, if you will, to the larger institutions in the community 00:29:40.898 --> 00:29:43.870 - and get them connected to services that they 00:29:44.130 --> 00:29:56.083 - in many cases desperately need. Let's take a walk. This is our main room which doubles as a place for 00:29:56.083 --> 00:30:08.035 - people to be during the day and also serves as our dining room. We do breakfast and lunch daily to an 00:30:08.035 --> 00:30:12.254 - average of 200 to 250 people a day. 00:30:12.674 --> 00:30:21.074 - very, very busy place. Let's go into the kitchen. This is one of the jewels of the Shalom Center. We 00:30:21.074 --> 00:30:29.391 - have a fully equipped commercial kitchen and this is where the meals are prepared and put out. This 00:30:29.391 --> 00:30:37.708 - activity is done primarily with volunteers from the community, from every segment of our community. 00:30:37.708 --> 00:30:39.870 - We have students from IU, 00:30:40.354 --> 00:30:46.567 - We have folks from churches, people from the business community, all working together to get the meal 00:30:46.567 --> 00:30:52.719 - out, if you will. A very labor-intensive operation, but a labor of love. And let me introduce you to 00:30:52.719 --> 00:30:59.175 - a couple of folks. This is Ron Kerner, who manages our kitchen and coordinates our hunger relief efforts. 00:30:59.175 --> 00:31:05.571 - And at least one of our volunteers, this is John Davenport over here in the corner, getting coffee ready 00:31:05.571 --> 00:31:10.078 - for lunch. John has been with us for a long time. And a couple of others. 00:31:10.306 --> 00:31:21.347 - Let's go on out here. The gentleman sitting right there with the glasses is Ken Heller. He's one of 00:31:21.347 --> 00:31:32.388 - our volunteer job counselors. We work with people every day around employment. It's a priority need 00:31:32.388 --> 00:31:35.038 - for many of our guests. 00:31:35.618 --> 00:31:46.895 - That work is done exclusively at this point with community volunteers from all, again, all parts of 00:31:46.895 --> 00:31:58.172 - the community. And they do tremendous work. This is our computer lab and actually you get an action 00:31:58.172 --> 00:32:05.502 - shot of the Shalom Community Center staff. This is Nancy, Linda, 00:32:05.666 --> 00:32:13.828 - Patty and Rita. Hi there. And a lot happens in here. This is a place where people can come in and work 00:32:13.828 --> 00:32:21.752 - on getting a resume crafted and printed out, do some educational work. And given our limited space, 00:32:21.752 --> 00:32:29.994 - it also doubles as a staff meeting room. And the family dining room during lunch. And the family dining 00:32:29.994 --> 00:32:34.590 - room during lunch. Yes. So it's lovely to see all of you. 00:32:34.850 --> 00:32:43.518 - And right behind you is the serving line. That's our steam table. And we have a wonderful meal every 00:32:43.518 --> 00:32:51.413 - day. We put great emphasis on putting out a very balanced, nutritious meal each day. And we 00:32:51.413 --> 00:33:00.081 - try to accommodate those with special dietary needs, including those who are vegetarians. And again, 00:33:00.081 --> 00:33:02.398 - as with most programs that 00:33:02.786 --> 00:33:10.371 - work in the broad area of hunger relief. We are at the end of the food chain, so to speak. And what 00:33:10.371 --> 00:33:17.956 - that means is we serve a lot of people, a lot of food that is rescued. We get most of our food from 00:33:17.956 --> 00:33:25.693 - the Hoosier Hills Food Bank, which supplies most of the area's nonprofit feeding programs. And that's 00:33:25.693 --> 00:33:29.182 - supplemented by donations from the community. 00:33:29.666 --> 00:33:41.424 - and a small amount of shopping from the commercial supermarkets. Last year we served nearly 50,000 meals 00:33:41.424 --> 00:33:53.631 - and our average cost per meal was 42 cents. So very efficient operation in terms of getting large quantities 00:33:53.631 --> 00:33:58.110 - of food to people who need it the most. 00:34:03.138 --> 00:34:09.821 - I had mentioned earlier primary function is providing services for people who are experiencing homelessness 00:34:09.821 --> 00:34:16.071 - and one of those very fundamental services is acting as a mailing address again something most of us 00:34:16.071 --> 00:34:22.320 - would take for granted but if you are homeless getting a safe stable place to get your mail is a big 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:27.518 - deal and so at any given time we receive mail for somewhere between a hundred and a 00:34:31.810 --> 00:34:39.404 - Well, this is Dee. Dee is a legal aid intern from IU Law School. We, this year, entered into a very 00:34:39.404 --> 00:34:46.999 - innovative partnership between the IU Law School and Indiana Legal Services, which is the nonprofit 00:34:46.999 --> 00:34:54.669 - legal services corporation in Indiana, to try to provide legal services to people living in poverty. 00:34:54.669 --> 00:34:58.846 - It's, as we all know, I think a tremendous unmet need. 00:34:59.362 --> 00:35:06.605 - People living in poverty have significant legal issues and are typically underrepresented. So this is 00:35:06.605 --> 00:35:13.990 - a great partnership in terms of getting information and resources in the legal area to people that need 00:35:13.990 --> 00:35:21.091 - them. Again, as with all our services, very user-friendly services are provided on a walk-in basis. 00:35:21.091 --> 00:35:22.014 - Dee is here. 00:35:22.210 --> 00:35:28.694 - Monday through Thursday and people can walk in without an appointment and present whatever legal need 00:35:28.694 --> 00:35:35.496 - that they have and have a good shot of at least getting some of those issues clarified and where necessary 00:35:35.496 --> 00:35:41.979 - cases are then referred to Indiana Legal Services to be picked up and carried from there. So D is one 00:35:41.979 --> 00:35:46.302 - of our treasures, one of our great assets as with all our agencies. 00:35:56.898 --> 00:36:05.610 - since opening has provided, with its package of basic necessities, free laundry facilities for anyone 00:36:05.610 --> 00:36:14.152 - in the community in need. And on a typical day, somewhere between 10 and a dozen people do laundry. 00:36:14.152 --> 00:36:22.950 - So it's significant usage, and we're hoping to expand that. One of the issues we've had as we've grown 00:36:22.950 --> 00:36:26.110 - over these first few years is space. 00:36:26.242 --> 00:36:33.755 - and should let the community know that we are expanding across the street. We will be retaining this 00:36:33.755 --> 00:36:41.342 - space that we're currently in, but it will be devoted exclusively to our hunger relief programs, very 00:36:41.342 --> 00:36:49.004 - specifically the breakfast, lunch, food pantry operations, and beginning job training effort using the 00:36:49.004 --> 00:36:55.550 - food service industry as a vehicle. All our other services will move across the street, 00:36:55.650 --> 00:37:02.816 - 110 South Washington, which is just at the end of the driveway. All the basics like phones, computers, 00:37:02.816 --> 00:37:09.981 - mail, laundry facilities, et cetera, will be over there. And all our visiting social service agencies, 00:37:09.981 --> 00:37:16.938 - which number now, somewhere between 20 to 24 each month, will be setting up shop across the street. 00:37:16.938 --> 00:37:24.382 - So in effect, beginning in March, we will have our campus where people will be able to come here for meals 00:37:24.802 --> 00:37:32.936 - across the street for the other services that they need. So very excited about that. Thanks for joining 00:37:32.936 --> 00:37:40.991 - us here at the Shalom Community Center. We always welcome visitors and if you're able, please stay for 00:37:40.991 --> 00:37:45.918 - lunch. We love to feed people. Please come and visit us again. 00:38:58.914 --> 00:39:05.439 - that was really impressive that you guys do that much for the community. I'm wondering how this came 00:39:05.439 --> 00:39:12.028 - about in Bloomington. Are there comparable services in other communities, or do we have just a really 00:39:12.028 --> 00:39:18.746 - good example here of how a community can work to serve its less fortunate members? Good question. There 00:39:18.746 --> 00:39:26.046 - are similar programs in other parts of the country, more typically found in large cities. For example, there's a 00:39:26.274 --> 00:39:34.135 - a very good program in Indianapolis called Rising House, which is actually a bigger version of the show 00:39:34.135 --> 00:39:42.072 - I'm saying. First part of your question, what the answer alluded to, I think, in the video, homelessness 00:39:42.072 --> 00:39:49.706 - now around the country, and here in Bloomington, in terms of being a major social issue, it was over 00:39:49.706 --> 00:39:54.846 - 20 years old, and you're exactly right, it was only in the mid-80s, 00:39:55.426 --> 00:40:25.342 - So we've had shelter here in Bloomington since the mid-80s, but people noticed pretty quickly 00:40:25.506 --> 00:40:31.729 - I became aware that although we have overnight shelter, we have no place for people to go during the 00:40:31.729 --> 00:40:37.460 - day. Would it be especially hard for older people or people with short hair to go to campus? 00:40:37.460 --> 00:40:43.744 - Hard for anybody. I think those who stay in our shelters, which typically open at four o'clock in the 00:40:43.744 --> 00:40:49.906 - afternoon and close at eight in the morning, it's a shuffle when you think about trying to get your 00:40:49.906 --> 00:40:55.390 - things from one place to another, find a place to eat during the day, just a place to be 00:40:55.714 --> 00:41:02.009 - on the winter. There was a long conversation here in Bloomington that predates me on various parts of 00:41:02.009 --> 00:41:08.242 - the community, communities of faith, for example, government, others in the nonprofit sector, really 00:41:08.242 --> 00:41:14.599 - based on that central question of where do people who are experiencing homelessness go during the day? 00:41:14.599 --> 00:41:20.832 - And related to that, where do they find the tools that we all need to conduct our personal business? 00:41:20.832 --> 00:41:23.486 - Right, if you were unemployed, it would be 00:41:23.746 --> 00:41:30.032 - pretty difficult to get a job without having a mailing address. I never thought of that before until 00:41:30.032 --> 00:41:36.317 - I was watching the video. And many things, again, most of which we all take for granted, access to a 00:41:36.317 --> 00:41:42.603 - telephone or computer. Those are major obstacles in your experience in homelessness. So that was the 00:41:42.603 --> 00:41:48.950 - conversation that took place in this community, a very dynamic conversation that, as I understand it, 00:41:48.950 --> 00:41:52.062 - bubbled up and down over the years, late in 1991. 00:41:53.890 --> 00:42:00.074 - It intensified, and two major parties came together to form the Shalom Center. Our current host, the 00:42:00.074 --> 00:42:06.441 - Fresh Nightly Methodist Church, stepped forward and said, listen, we have some space, and we think this 00:42:06.441 --> 00:42:12.809 - is a worthy mission, and we'd be happy to support it by offering space. The former Shelter Inc. stepped 00:42:12.809 --> 00:42:18.932 - forward and said, well, we don't have any space, but we've got some staff that we could lend out to 00:42:18.932 --> 00:42:23.646 - get this started, and that's how it was created. That's great, that's great. 00:42:23.874 --> 00:42:30.201 - It wouldn't just be homeless people that you're helping. It's probably also people just in circumstances 00:42:30.201 --> 00:42:36.407 - of extreme poverty or poverty even, or just missing a paycheck for a couple days. Precisely, yeah. The 00:42:36.407 --> 00:42:42.673 - Center has had a very rapid evolution. Again, it opened its doors in January of 2000. And the beginning 00:42:42.673 --> 00:42:49.241 - premise was based on that conversation that I just described, was to provide a space for people experiencing 00:42:49.241 --> 00:42:52.254 - homelessness. And very specifically, in the first 00:42:53.634 --> 00:43:00.615 - the first couple of months it was really targeted for those who were staying in the adult shelter. We 00:43:00.615 --> 00:43:07.459 - realized pretty quickly when we started with 12 people or 15 people a day and then next week it had 00:43:07.459 --> 00:43:14.509 - turned into 25 or 30 and the following week 40 to 50 and then more and more people began coming in who 00:43:14.509 --> 00:43:21.353 - were not necessarily homeless today so the common denominator was everyone was experiencing poverty 00:43:21.353 --> 00:43:22.174 - in some way 00:43:23.362 --> 00:43:29.851 - And we realized, well, we need to grow and we need to adapt. So yes, today it's a center for, it's open 00:43:29.851 --> 00:43:36.090 - to anyone in the community, but very specifically is targeting those who are living in poverty. And 00:43:36.090 --> 00:43:42.704 - that's men, women, and children. We have a diverse group of people come in every day ranging from infants 00:43:42.704 --> 00:43:43.390 - to elders. 00:43:52.098 --> 00:43:58.406 - It's more difficult in a town like Bloomington to meet the needs of everyone experiencing poverty because 00:43:58.406 --> 00:44:04.476 - of IU being there. And I know that it seems like you get a lot of transient people through, you know, 00:44:04.476 --> 00:44:10.486 - like somebody that goes to school for three years or something and then experiences difficulties. Do 00:44:10.486 --> 00:44:16.556 - you think it's harder to meet the needs of that community because of sort of just the way that IU is, 00:44:16.556 --> 00:44:19.710 - the way this town kind of works, I guess, basically? 00:44:19.906 --> 00:44:26.710 - I think understanding and getting at the causes of poverty are difficult no matter what part of the 00:44:26.710 --> 00:44:34.194 - country you're in. I think there's certainly differences between urban poverty and rural poverty. Bloomington 00:44:34.194 --> 00:44:41.133 - in this area is kind of a mix. Certainly there's some urban characteristics right here in the city of 00:44:41.133 --> 00:44:48.073 - Bloomington, but also we serve a larger area and we see much of rural poverty, which tends to be more 00:44:48.073 --> 00:44:49.502 - hidden, if you will. 00:44:49.762 --> 00:44:57.844 - So it's difficult, you know, any way you slice it. One of the things that people aren't aware of, because 00:44:57.844 --> 00:45:05.545 - Bloomington on the surface is a very prosperous community. We obviously have a major university here 00:45:05.545 --> 00:45:13.017 - and so on. But Monroe County actually has the highest poverty rate in Indiana. It's close to 19%. 00:45:13.017 --> 00:45:19.422 - And again, that's just people living at or below the federal poverty line, which is 00:45:19.810 --> 00:45:26.258 - very, very conservative. When we add in those folks that are living just above it, for example, it's 00:45:26.258 --> 00:45:32.643 - a significant part of our population. So I think the ability to meet the needs is very complex. And 00:45:32.643 --> 00:45:39.155 - there are more people, I think, than one agency like the Shalom Center could have. Sure. You probably 00:45:39.155 --> 00:45:45.604 - still have a lot of success stories, though, right? Of getting people back on their feet, especially 00:45:45.604 --> 00:45:47.902 - with job counseling and everything. 00:45:48.098 --> 00:45:55.065 - So I think it's important for people to understand that people who are experiencing homelessness and 00:45:55.065 --> 00:46:02.238 - poverty are no different than you or not. They are people. They have their own histories and have their 00:46:02.238 --> 00:46:09.136 - own hopes and dreams for the future. They have their own demons that they're struggling with at the 00:46:09.136 --> 00:46:16.309 - moment. You know, the distinguishing or common characteristics, if you will, for many of the folks that 00:46:16.309 --> 00:46:17.758 - we see every day are 00:46:18.146 --> 00:46:25.809 - a lack of confidence and self-esteem that's been beaten down over time, a profound sense of isolation 00:46:25.809 --> 00:46:33.473 - for many folks, and a lack of a support system. I ask people often to think about what you have done, 00:46:33.473 --> 00:46:41.136 - what any of us have done, what has been a crisis in our life. And we all experience a crisis, whether 00:46:41.136 --> 00:46:45.118 - it's a job loss or a divorce or an illness, I think, 00:46:46.178 --> 00:46:52.283 - many of us, our support system's a phone call away. That might be family or friends, somebody that helps 00:46:52.283 --> 00:46:58.214 - us through that difficult time. But for, particularly for folks who are experiencing homelessness for 00:46:58.214 --> 00:47:04.261 - any number of reasons, that support system has been lost. We recognize that, and one of the intangibles 00:47:04.261 --> 00:47:10.192 - of the Shalom Center beyond the actual services that are provided there is trying to function as that 00:47:10.192 --> 00:47:15.134 - extended support system. Yeah, kind of like a family. Yeah, and over time, you know, 00:47:15.778 --> 00:47:23.978 - we see some tremendous change and success stories as you asked about. Folks that on first meeting may 00:47:23.978 --> 00:47:32.178 - be reluctant to share their name several months out are not only flowering but are finding employment 00:47:32.178 --> 00:47:40.298 - or getting into educational programs or good things are happening. And we understand that that's not 00:47:40.298 --> 00:47:44.478 - a formula driven process, it's really an individual 00:47:45.122 --> 00:47:51.889 - And one of the things I think that Distinguish has shown is it's very much a person-driven process. 00:47:51.889 --> 00:47:58.655 - And what I mean by that is most social service delivery, if you will, and this isn't a criticism of 00:47:58.655 --> 00:48:05.557 - traditional social service agencies, but the interactions are business-driven. And not coming to your 00:48:05.557 --> 00:48:12.323 - agency seeking help with a legal question or seeking help applying for benefits. Our interaction is 00:48:12.323 --> 00:48:13.406 - based solely on 00:48:14.978 --> 00:48:21.830 - the service may or may not be delivered, and then we go away. The Shalom Center is much different. We 00:48:21.830 --> 00:48:28.682 - make people aware of what services are available, but then we allow people to tell us what it is that 00:48:28.682 --> 00:48:35.937 - they think they need and when they need it. And that's a very different approach and particularly effective 00:48:35.937 --> 00:48:43.058 - in reaching people who are hard to reach, people that may feel alienated. And many people do, many people 00:48:43.058 --> 00:48:44.670 - have had very difficult 00:48:44.994 --> 00:48:51.305 - experiences trying to deal with systems and traditional community institutions. So our approach is more 00:48:51.305 --> 00:48:57.617 - people-oriented, more patient, more flexible. Right. It seems like just having been a student and being 00:48:57.617 --> 00:49:03.867 - away from home, there's times in your life where you're like, well, I don't really have a family right 00:49:03.867 --> 00:49:09.936 - now, even if your parents are very supportive of you. Or for any of us, it's like when you hit that 00:49:09.936 --> 00:49:14.366 - moment, and thankfully, I don't feel like I've ever hit it for too long. 00:49:15.330 --> 00:49:21.087 - But just for anyone, it seems like it would be hard to get through the day-to-day and to motivate yourself, 00:49:21.087 --> 00:49:26.471 - especially if you're down on your luck without that sense of family. So it seems like a really great 00:49:26.471 --> 00:49:31.801 - thing that you do there by creating that for people. Because I'm sure that giving them that hope is 00:49:31.801 --> 00:49:37.185 - actually what that hope and just people to talk to, people to relate to. One of the things we try to 00:49:37.185 --> 00:49:42.942 - keep front and center, and again, it's difficult to do sometimes because we're so busy with the day-to-day. 00:49:45.474 --> 00:49:53.337 - loan center day in and day out is filled with people who, for example, will pop into the office with 00:49:53.337 --> 00:50:01.511 - prescriptions that need to be filled and no way to fill them. And one emergency situation after another. 00:50:01.511 --> 00:50:09.529 - And we're very consumed, obviously, by getting those immediate needs met. But one of the things we try 00:50:09.529 --> 00:50:12.254 - to keep in front of us is the fact 00:50:15.394 --> 00:50:21.953 - fundamental issue is folks have lost their ability to dream over time. And we all need a sense 00:50:21.953 --> 00:50:28.996 - of self-esteem, self-confidence to move forward with whatever it is we choose in our lives. So we try 00:50:28.996 --> 00:50:35.486 - to be conscious of that all the time. Are you from Bloomington? No, I grew up in New England. 00:50:46.178 --> 00:50:55.243 - What led you to want to do this kind of work? Kind of a natural progression. I was college age. I was 00:50:55.243 --> 00:51:04.130 - very interested in teaching. I thought that would be my career path. I became less interested after 00:51:04.130 --> 00:51:09.374 - going through college and actually going into a classroom. 00:51:14.434 --> 00:51:21.341 - If there was a point to what you're doing, a hope or a dream? Just a second. I was fortunate. I was 00:51:21.341 --> 00:51:28.456 - in college during a very both chaotic and I think very creative time. It was the Vietnam era and civil 00:51:28.456 --> 00:51:35.502 - rights struggles and also a great deal of movement on a national level around issues like poverty. My 00:51:35.502 --> 00:51:42.617 - very first job coming out of school was with the, I'm dating myself here, with the old war on poverty, 00:51:42.617 --> 00:51:43.998 - which was something 00:51:47.778 --> 00:51:57.144 - in the early 70s very much targeting poverty in inner cities and got my start doing that working in 00:51:57.144 --> 00:51:58.174 - inner city 00:52:33.378 --> 00:52:40.882 - bedroom covered with sores. He couldn't get out of his apartment, so he used one empty room as a place 00:52:40.882 --> 00:52:48.387 - to put his trash, and they opened the door, and trash was piled to the ceiling. He hadn't had medicine 00:52:48.387 --> 00:52:55.746 - when he needed in months, and had no family or friends anywhere close by. Nobody knew about him. One 00:52:55.746 --> 00:53:00.190 - of the next people I met was a teenage mother with her baby, 00:53:04.482 --> 00:53:24.273 - So my first few years were spent doing that type of work fueled my passion, if you will, I think around 00:53:24.273 --> 00:53:26.366 - injustice. 00:53:33.826 --> 00:53:41.017 - But I think it's easy to forget, just in day-to-day life, living in the United States and being able 00:53:41.017 --> 00:53:48.350 - to go out to eat all the time, being able to go, oh, boo-hoo, I don't have any money. I'll have to not 00:53:48.350 --> 00:53:55.684 - go out to the bars tonight or whatever. I feel like it's easy to forget that there are situations like 00:53:55.684 --> 00:54:02.590 - that. And people maybe do even forget. And I'm wondering, do you think that's part of the reason 00:54:03.394 --> 00:54:10.113 - Why now, I know you were talking about in the 60s and 70s, there was so much work done by the government 00:54:10.113 --> 00:54:16.512 - on poverty. Now we have a president whose budget actually cuts back on Medicaid, Medicare, welfare, 00:54:16.512 --> 00:54:22.975 - everything that people who have the misfortune of experiencing poverty need to make it through. What 00:54:22.975 --> 00:54:29.438 - do you think that you can attribute that to in the past 30 or 40 years in our society that's sort of 00:54:29.438 --> 00:54:32.382 - made us turn cold hard shoulder in innocence? 00:54:32.514 --> 00:54:40.450 - It's a very good question. I think some of it relates to the fact that we're Americans and we have very 00:54:40.450 --> 00:54:48.385 - short attention spans and for example, when you look at the issue of homelessness and there's a typical 00:54:48.385 --> 00:54:56.321 - or a similar process I think that happens with most major social issues as they emerge as major issues. 00:54:56.321 --> 00:54:58.686 - When you look at homelessness, 00:55:03.042 --> 00:55:10.329 - For those of you who remember back to those times, early on, a tremendous amount of public attention 00:55:10.329 --> 00:55:18.120 - paid to the issues. I mean, Hollywood stars coming out and doing benefits. The federal government beginning 00:55:18.120 --> 00:55:25.335 - to put some money out for programs and services. And some things began to happen. Five or six years 00:55:25.335 --> 00:55:29.086 - later, though, in fact, the monies began to be cut. 00:55:34.082 --> 00:55:41.299 - Again, a lot of that is, I think, related to our nature as Americans. When we identify a problem, we 00:55:41.299 --> 00:55:48.587 - expect it to be solved quickly. And if it's too complex to be solved quickly, unfortunately, just the 00:55:48.587 --> 00:55:56.018 - opposite begins to occur. Rather than compassion, we begin to go the other way. In many cases, we begin 00:55:56.018 --> 00:56:02.878 - to blame the victim. And then, I think, somewhat related to that is we become numb to the issue 00:56:04.386 --> 00:56:11.840 - example of that is go to any big city, go to Indianapolis, go to Chicago, walk down any major city street, 00:56:11.840 --> 00:56:19.156 - and you'll see bodies everywhere. People lying on sidewalks, lying on park benches, and most of us don't 00:56:19.156 --> 00:56:26.192 - look twice. I mean, we're not shocked. We're not outraged. We don't go looking for help. It's become 00:56:26.192 --> 00:56:29.118 - part of the urban landscape. That's true. 00:56:29.474 --> 00:56:34.862 - that it never effectively continued to say that it never occurred to me before, like, maybe, like, I 00:56:34.862 --> 00:56:40.304 - should see this person laying on the ground over there and think, oh, what's going on? How can I help 00:56:40.304 --> 00:56:45.798 - this person? We no longer, and we've lost something when that happens. Again, we don't see it anymore. 00:56:45.798 --> 00:56:51.133 - We're not shocked. We're not moved to action. And again, much of that, I think, just relates to who 00:56:51.133 --> 00:56:54.654 - we are as Americans. Like a certain selfishness or just a certain 00:56:55.490 --> 00:57:03.334 - state of denial? Well, probably all of that. And again, we expect easy answers. And we're an immediate 00:57:03.334 --> 00:57:11.179 - gratification culture, I think. Social problems that we're talking about tonight don't lend themselves 00:57:11.179 --> 00:57:19.099 - to quick and easy solutions that are very complex. Do you think it could have something to do with just 00:57:19.099 --> 00:57:24.126 - sort of what the legitimating factor is in our society, as far as 00:57:24.322 --> 00:57:32.347 - And we have a very capitalistic, almost social Darwinistic take on success in our society. So I mean, 00:57:32.347 --> 00:57:40.450 - I guess what we've been hearing since we were like eight, seven, six, five, however old is, if you try 00:57:40.450 --> 00:57:48.318 - in the United States, everyone is given the same opportunities, which isn't really the case at all. 00:57:48.318 --> 00:57:50.206 - But even that being so. 00:57:50.530 --> 00:57:57.209 - Do you think that's why we can turn our backs? Because we've been sort of indoctrinated with that? You 00:57:57.209 --> 00:58:04.147 - must have really, really messed up. Because I know that we're in a free society, and everyone can succeed. 00:58:04.147 --> 00:58:11.020 - But the harsh reality is, if everyone succeeded, who would be the garbage man who would? Sorry, I started 00:58:11.020 --> 00:58:17.374 - ranting, but it- No, you're making great points. I mean, it's still a fundamental American value. 00:58:19.778 --> 00:58:27.363 - For young or old, it's ingrained in our culture that if you work hard, you can achieve the American 00:58:27.363 --> 00:58:35.252 - dream. And if you suffer a setback, you pull yourself up by the bootstraps, so to speak. And certainly, 00:58:35.252 --> 00:58:42.912 - I think conditions and societal factors were different years ago than they are now. When you look at 00:58:42.912 --> 00:58:48.222 - homelessness, for example, when you look at a place like Bloomington, 00:58:48.514 --> 00:58:55.369 - According to the last research that just came out in the fall, looking at affordability measures, 00:58:55.369 --> 00:59:02.504 - for example, for any of us to afford the medium-priced two-bedroom apartment here in Bloomington, and 00:59:02.504 --> 00:59:09.709 - to be able to afford it is the key, we would need to be making a minimum of $12 an hour. Now, when you 00:59:09.709 --> 00:59:17.054 - examine the employment structure here and look at so many of our jobs, which are service sector-related, 00:59:17.186 --> 00:59:26.644 - Still don't value as a society or service sector jobs So they're they're you know, they're priced at 00:59:26.644 --> 00:59:36.477 - minimum wage or just above and just do the costs cost comparison Cost of that housing and what the wages 00:59:36.477 --> 00:59:41.534 - are you can work full-time? That's really unfortunate 00:59:43.074 --> 00:59:48.859 - Because I heard that you said this statistic about how Long Island County had the highest poverty rate. 00:59:48.859 --> 00:59:54.588 - But I heard also before, I heard that in the context of a Green Party meeting some time ago, they said 00:59:54.588 --> 01:00:00.484 - that also had the lowest unemployment rate. Yeah, the lowest unemployment rate. So it seems like everyone 01:00:00.484 --> 01:00:06.046 - is working and there's just not enough money to go around. Yeah, and they're not contradictory, but 01:00:06.046 --> 01:00:11.998 - they do require explanation. We do have a very low unemployment rate. Again, much of it is service sector. 01:00:12.610 --> 01:00:18.274 - at very low wages, and much of it is part time and seasonal employment. Right, but that does, to a certain 01:00:18.274 --> 01:00:23.568 - extent, kind of just fly in the face of anyone who would be like, oh, these people are just amazing 01:00:23.568 --> 01:00:29.073 - people. They're not doing anything to me. And a lot of that is mythology. When you look at the research 01:00:29.073 --> 01:00:34.843 - all over the country, and for example, on homelessness, a significant percentage of people who are currently 01:00:34.843 --> 01:00:38.654 - homeless are also employed. I mean, their wages simply don't allow them 01:00:40.482 --> 01:00:48.130 - for the basic necessities. And that's really the root definition of poverty. And it's not a difficult 01:00:48.130 --> 01:00:55.702 - concept. It means having insufficient resources to pay for basic necessities. Food, rent or shelter, 01:00:55.702 --> 01:01:03.500 - and health care are the major ones. And for those living with a very modest income, one upset can throw 01:01:03.500 --> 01:01:05.374 - that household or family 01:01:10.146 --> 01:01:16.876 - for those that are working in service sector jobs. Oftentimes that means no health insurance and no 01:01:16.876 --> 01:01:23.606 - benefits. If you're sick and unable to work, you can lose your job. If your car breaks down and you 01:01:23.606 --> 01:01:30.403 - can't afford to fix it, that can mean loss of employment, that can quickly spiral into homelessness. 01:01:30.403 --> 01:01:37.133 - So it's a very, very fragile balance. Well, so many of us live, and I mean myself included so much, 01:01:37.133 --> 01:01:40.094 - it's hard to tap into what basic needs are. 01:01:40.418 --> 01:01:47.115 - because basic needs are so many different things or have become. Is cable a basic need? Is internet 01:01:47.115 --> 01:01:54.013 - a basic need? I mean, obviously not. Well, I mean, to be successful, sometimes cable is getting to the 01:01:54.013 --> 01:02:00.844 - point as a student or as looking for a job. It could be more difficult. But I think on that note, I'm 01:02:00.844 --> 01:02:04.126 - getting a signal that we're running out of time. 01:02:04.386 --> 01:02:11.872 - So we're going to have you back up here in just a moment, again, to see if the audience has any questions 01:02:11.872 --> 01:02:17.310 - or if we have a moment just to discuss a couple things. Thank you very much. 01:03:10.242 --> 01:03:15.731 - We'll be inviting two guests back on in just a moment. But before we do that, I was going to invite 01:03:15.731 --> 01:03:21.495 - Daniel Wick on stage. We were going to talk to the whole band tonight, but we're a little short on time. 01:03:21.495 --> 01:03:26.984 - Sorry, guys. They're all crying about it. I know they're so disappointed. But I was hoping that Dan 01:03:26.984 --> 01:03:32.584 - would come up and talk to us a little bit about the music. Because usually when I talk to people that 01:03:32.584 --> 01:03:38.292 - come to the show, they're like, what the? What's going on with the band? So please welcome Daniel Wick, 01:03:38.292 --> 01:03:39.006 - keyboardist. 01:03:39.682 --> 01:03:48.558 - Oh, genius. I was getting there. I was getting there. Musical genius. You don't want to talk? Oh, OK. 01:03:48.558 --> 01:03:57.521 - No, and there's four chairs, so if somebody else wants to come up, you can, too. Joe? OK. Have a seat, 01:03:57.521 --> 01:04:06.310 - gentlemen. All right, so this is just kind of a side project for both of you, right? This is kind of 01:04:06.310 --> 01:04:09.182 - a concession to his entire life. 01:04:10.114 --> 01:04:21.939 - Yeah, hold on. That's better. We'll need to for the roundtable anyhow. What exactly is going on back 01:04:21.939 --> 01:04:33.648 - there? I guess I can ask that question. That's simply a curious kind of music. We're just wondering 01:04:33.648 --> 01:04:36.926 - what I guess doing exactly. 01:04:45.250 --> 01:04:53.157 - And we'll think for a while. I guess we could ask, what else do you guys do besides playing the Shantako 01:04:53.157 --> 01:05:00.838 - Band on this Bloomingtown Variety Hour? No. Well, I know sometimes you draw pictures. No, I mean like 01:05:00.838 --> 01:05:08.594 - in real life. What other bands are you involved with? Scoob Trio, once part of Sam Crimes. Just trying 01:05:08.594 --> 01:05:12.510 - to get a sense of the music going on with the show. 01:05:16.994 --> 01:05:26.525 - Essentially, it's kind of like a, this particular project is kind of a manifestation of collaborations, 01:05:26.525 --> 01:05:35.965 - just a kind of non-idiomatic playing. It's not necessarily trying to be complete. It's both completely 01:05:35.965 --> 01:05:46.046 - original and completely unoriginal. And I can add in with that is the fact that we use mainly Casio equipment 01:05:46.306 --> 01:05:53.516 - and another type, and they have presets, so it's idiomatic in a way, it's in a genre in a way that sometimes 01:05:53.516 --> 01:06:00.263 - we use a preset to play a certain kind of music, but then we don't pay attention to that usually. How 01:06:00.263 --> 01:06:07.010 - would you guys define idiomatic? I don't want to sound stupid or anything, but I couldn't really come 01:06:07.010 --> 01:06:14.022 - up with a definition if... The best definition for playing non-idiomatically would be no intended effect, 01:06:14.022 --> 01:06:15.742 - I think would make sense. 01:06:16.226 --> 01:06:23.540 - Like flow? Well yeah, I mean you play with your music, you do that all the time when you're playing, 01:06:23.540 --> 01:06:31.000 - you know, rock or any genre. But with this particular project, I guess it's, you know, you don't worry 01:06:31.000 --> 01:06:38.241 - about what kind of genre of music you're playing. Right. It's funny, Dan's actually my roommate, so 01:06:38.241 --> 01:06:41.790 - and Scoon's good friends. I get to hear a lot of 01:06:42.050 --> 01:06:48.038 - these gentlemen's music a lot of the time. And I was in the art museum on campus the other day for a 01:06:48.038 --> 01:06:54.203 - tour. And we get up to probably the most abstract piece there, I guess, the most wild, crazy. It's this 01:06:54.203 --> 01:07:00.191 - huge. It's supposed to be a playground somehow. And the docent asks, he's like, OK, what do you guys 01:07:00.191 --> 01:07:06.357 - think of when you see this? And no one answers. And he's like, well, I ask six-year-olds what they hear 01:07:06.357 --> 01:07:11.870 - when they see this. And so he asks us that. And I'm just instantly like, I hear my basement. 01:07:11.970 --> 01:07:21.991 - It's just this crazy pain. I'm like, I definitely hear my basement, some jazz. I think that might be 01:07:21.991 --> 01:07:32.012 - a good way of looking at it. Maybe a six-year-old's take on jazz. Good, good, good. All right. Well, 01:07:32.012 --> 01:07:39.454 - you guys don't want to talk anymore. Anything else to say about the music? 01:07:42.338 --> 01:07:48.835 - Yeah, with this particular band, I didn't name this. What's the name of this band? It's the Shantakwa 01:07:48.835 --> 01:07:55.333 - Band. I actually kind of named it because Shantakwa was a tour that used to travel the country before 01:07:55.333 --> 01:08:01.703 - there was like mass media and really like, I mean, you had newspapers and stuff, but before you had 01:08:01.703 --> 01:08:08.200 - like the internet or like TV or even as much radio or any radio, I guess they would have circus tents 01:08:08.200 --> 01:08:10.366 - and there would be like shows and 01:08:10.562 --> 01:08:16.757 - politicians and writers and stuff, and they'd all talk. And it's like to inform people, but also just 01:08:16.757 --> 01:08:22.953 - to have fun. So I thought that related to what this show was supposed to do. So that's why it's their 01:08:22.953 --> 01:08:29.148 - name. But sorry, go on. We actually had a theme song for this. And we performed it the first night we 01:08:29.148 --> 01:08:35.708 - were invited to add music to this. And I like to think that we are just constantly doing different versions 01:08:35.708 --> 01:08:36.862 - of that same song. 01:08:40.930 --> 01:08:46.424 - I don't know, we've kind of gotten more out now. The first time we had semblances of songs and then 01:08:46.424 --> 01:08:51.973 - we had people who didn't know any of our material just started kind of improvising with us. And then 01:08:51.973 --> 01:08:57.523 - now it's gotten to the point where I'm just not even in the band. I'm just kind of watching tonight. 01:08:57.523 --> 01:09:03.017 - Yeah, we ran out of Casio, so I just don't know. I really like the song that they're talking about, 01:09:03.017 --> 01:09:08.566 - that they did his theme song the first time. It's funny that Dan was the one out because he actually 01:09:08.566 --> 01:09:10.654 - composed the song, so I guess they've 01:09:10.914 --> 01:09:18.612 - full circle. But it's great, and I really like that notion that it's just the same song kind of continued. 01:09:18.612 --> 01:09:25.951 - I think we're running short on time again. So if one of you guys wants to stay up here while we bring 01:09:25.951 --> 01:09:33.218 - our two guests up, that would be fantastic. Sorry, Schoon. You can pull up a chair if it's important 01:09:33.218 --> 01:09:38.686 - to you. But without further ado, please welcome Matt Brunner and Joel Ricas 01:09:47.394 --> 01:09:53.354 - Welcome, gentlemen. First of all, I would ask if there are any audience questions about what had come 01:09:53.354 --> 01:09:59.198 - up about the Shalom Center and their purpose in the community, or about... I'm gonna grab some more 01:09:59.198 --> 01:10:05.158 - microphones. I'll finish real fast, though, so that you guys have time to orchestrate your questions. 01:10:05.158 --> 01:10:11.002 - Or about the Hoosier Rights Campaign to Matt, or any issues about legislation, because I think that 01:10:11.002 --> 01:10:13.982 - Matt was telling me, as a political science major, 01:10:14.178 --> 01:10:24.595 - and as the president of the Hoosier Rights Campaign has a lot of knowledge on that. If you guys were 01:10:24.595 --> 01:10:35.218 - interested in writing to congress people or anything, hold on just one moment and come up to the front 01:10:35.218 --> 01:10:42.334 - if you had anything to ask. All right, Gabe, do you have a question? 01:10:43.874 --> 01:10:49.921 - I have two questions. One, you worked with Peggy Welch, and she has an anti-gay marriage stance. And 01:10:49.921 --> 01:10:55.907 - not only for your issue with Peggy Welch, but for everyone. I know that your own family has kind of 01:10:55.907 --> 01:11:01.954 - had difficulties with this issue. I mean, you think awareness is going to open these people's minds? 01:11:01.954 --> 01:11:08.240 - Do you think your connection with Peggy already will help open her mind? I mean, when do you think these 01:11:08.240 --> 01:11:10.814 - people will realize we're all just people? 01:11:12.514 --> 01:11:19.003 - That's an extremely good question. And there was a poll taken a while back, and that says that people 01:11:19.003 --> 01:11:25.492 - who know people who are gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender are automatically almost more supportive. 01:11:25.492 --> 01:11:32.044 - They realize who they are. They realize that they are the same people that they've known for years and 01:11:32.044 --> 01:11:38.406 - years, and that nothing has really changed. It's just that they have decided to tell them a certain 01:11:38.406 --> 01:11:39.742 - aspect of their life 01:11:40.002 --> 01:11:45.999 - decided not to tell them before. And the same thing goes with gay marriage, anti-discrimination laws, 01:11:45.999 --> 01:11:51.996 - hate crimes, that kind of thing. I think the same holds true. I think that people just need to go out 01:11:51.996 --> 01:11:57.464 - there, tell their stories, tell their personal stories to their family, to their friends, to 01:11:57.464 --> 01:12:03.344 - their congresspeople, and get the word out there more. Because the more education we can do and the 01:12:03.344 --> 01:12:09.694 - more personal face that we put on the issue, people are going to start to understand what is at stake here. 01:12:10.018 --> 01:12:17.485 - what is important, and that kind of thing. I mean, it's all about putting a personal face on it. And 01:12:17.485 --> 01:12:25.099 - I think with my family, they're still going through a hard time accepting that I am gay. But I've told 01:12:25.099 --> 01:12:32.787 - them time and time again that I'm the same person. Nothing has changed. I'm still the same person. I've 01:12:32.787 --> 01:12:38.110 - decided to tell them a certain aspect of my life that I did not before. 01:12:38.434 --> 01:12:45.167 - So my mom is becoming more acceptable and more comfortable with it. But my dad, I think he's holding 01:12:45.167 --> 01:12:51.900 - onto the religious beliefs just like so many other people do, especially when the gay marriage issue 01:12:51.900 --> 01:12:58.700 - get brought up. They hold on and they stick to the religious beliefs. And that's fine. I mean, people 01:12:58.700 --> 01:13:06.366 - can have religious beliefs, but they need to sometimes learn where to disconnect them with the government and with 01:13:06.530 --> 01:13:13.317 - gay marriage and with other issues. I mean, they just need to realize when is appropriate time to disconnect. 01:13:13.317 --> 01:13:19.610 - Thank you. That's perfect. And my second question is for all of you, Rebecca, Dan, you guys have been 01:13:19.610 --> 01:13:25.780 - working with me for a long time. And my main interest, and first of all, Joel, I appreciate you for 01:13:25.780 --> 01:13:31.518 - being here. You've fed me for a year and a half. This show wouldn't even happen without you. 01:13:31.714 --> 01:13:37.577 - Matt, I had such a good time with you and all you guys. It was so great. I so enjoyed myself. So thank 01:13:37.577 --> 01:13:43.383 - you so much for that. OK, so I put this show together to try and bring different groups together. And 01:13:43.383 --> 01:13:49.246 - I think there's more power in bringing different interests together. Is it possible to bring different 01:13:49.246 --> 01:13:55.280 - interests together? Can gays be with the I-69, be with the poor, and create a greater, stronger movement? 01:13:55.280 --> 01:14:00.574 - Because this is what it's going to take to- Third party? Or just what's it going to take to- 01:14:00.962 --> 01:14:06.501 - Bush has power. These people are organized, have think tanks. They know how to run us. They know how 01:14:06.501 --> 01:14:12.039 - to run a country. How do we get together to empower the poor, to a gay marriage ban, like that woman 01:14:12.039 --> 01:14:17.578 - was saying about how this is Nazi Germany stuff. And these people are moving with power. So how do I 01:14:17.578 --> 01:14:23.171 - get these people together? Dan, I would appreciate your input, specifically, because I'm trying to be 01:14:23.171 --> 01:14:24.158 - very intelligent. 01:14:31.170 --> 01:14:41.583 - As far as putting these groups together, just from a musician or the radical musician standpoint, I 01:14:41.583 --> 01:14:52.828 - don't really think about it. I just kind of, I mean, I like the idea of everyone kind of just participating 01:14:52.828 --> 01:15:00.638 - in life as honestly as possible. But I mean, just for me, it's always been 01:15:01.762 --> 01:15:11.699 - I'm doing music, and I'm doing my own thing. And I just kind of phase everything out. I don't know. 01:15:11.699 --> 01:15:21.835 - I'm just so involved in what I do. Everything doesn't matter. So I don't know what I'm saying, except 01:15:21.835 --> 01:15:30.878 - I think everyone should just engage in the particular thing that they're passionate about. 01:15:38.178 --> 01:15:48.656 - I think there's definitely some merit to different groups working on different issues coming together. 01:15:48.656 --> 01:15:58.931 - Matt and I realized off stage, we realized we had some common interests in terms of work that groups 01:15:58.931 --> 01:16:07.070 - do in that, for example, each day we see significant numbers of homeless youth. 01:16:07.330 --> 01:16:14.377 - Many of those homeless youth are gay and lesbian youth. They're struggling with the same issues that 01:16:14.377 --> 01:16:21.355 - all youth that are out on the streets do, with also added in the cultural issues and the stigma and 01:16:21.355 --> 01:16:28.472 - stereotypes that go with that. So I think it's good to have groups like this in the gallery talk. And 01:16:28.472 --> 01:16:33.566 - I'm particularly encouraged by the work of Matt's group in that I firmly 01:16:38.882 --> 01:16:45.106 - those issues are talked about, the more people that become involved, and particularly get involved in 01:16:45.106 --> 01:16:51.329 - the political process, I think that's what really brings about change. Yeah, and I agree with both of 01:16:51.329 --> 01:16:57.553 - them. They have very good points, and it's all about getting the dialogue between the groups, finding 01:16:57.553 --> 01:17:03.716 - whatever things that they may have in common, and coming together on those things. I mean, because a 01:17:03.716 --> 01:17:08.414 - lot of the groups cover different issues, but there's always something there 01:17:10.434 --> 01:17:17.140 - It's just finding that one thing that they have in common and bringing their groups together. And going 01:17:17.140 --> 01:17:23.782 - to lobby your legislators, writing your legislators, getting the stories out, and educating the public 01:17:23.782 --> 01:17:30.294 - on what the group does. And that is the most important thing. I was going to say something I noticed 01:17:30.294 --> 01:17:35.582 - between what Matt was saying about how usually people who have a friend or family 01:17:36.290 --> 01:17:42.126 - or someone else who they're closely related to who mentioned that their homosexual or unlawful are likely 01:17:42.126 --> 01:17:47.687 - to accept it. And I'm sure, dialously, a lot more likely to become politically involved on behalf of 01:17:47.687 --> 01:17:53.358 - that family member to realize that it's not whatever they've been conditioned to think it is. But what 01:17:53.358 --> 01:17:59.083 - you said about it being a personal face on the issue. And I think I was really struck by what we talked 01:17:59.083 --> 01:18:04.644 - about earlier, because you just see someone laying on the side of the street. And you're numb to it, 01:18:04.644 --> 01:18:05.470 - but it's like, 01:18:05.634 --> 01:18:11.593 - there's a personal face that needs to be put on that person. It seems like it's kind of the same issue 01:18:11.593 --> 01:18:17.436 - at hand, like just being able to marginalize people, I guess. I feel like what Gabe's talking about, 01:18:17.436 --> 01:18:23.453 - it's so important for us to come together as a community and for members of all communities to do that. 01:18:23.453 --> 01:18:29.470 - Because I feel like once you isolate something to a community, it's harder and harder and harder to put 01:18:29.634 --> 01:18:37.070 - just a black face over it, or a mask over someone's face. You see that this person is suffering, that 01:18:37.070 --> 01:18:44.359 - this person is being told that they're going to hell for what is so personal to their soul, really. 01:18:44.359 --> 01:18:51.868 - I don't know that I had any. I guess that was kind of addressing Gabe's comment. I don't know if I was 01:18:51.868 --> 01:18:56.606 - asking a question or not. Perfect. Any other audience questions? 01:18:59.650 --> 01:19:06.406 - So I have a question to pose to Matt. One of the issues that I found with talking to people about civil 01:19:06.406 --> 01:19:13.162 - marriage and that is the word marriage. A lot of times they say, well, why don't you just ask for civil 01:19:13.162 --> 01:19:19.659 - union instead of a civil marriage? Could you just explain what the differences are between the two? 01:19:19.659 --> 01:19:26.155 - Yeah, sure. And that is a great question. I mean, a lot of people during 2005 and 2004 when the gay 01:19:26.155 --> 01:19:29.598 - marriage issue was really starting to pike interest, 01:19:30.178 --> 01:19:37.838 - during elections and during a lot of people's thoughts process. The main issue was, why can't gay, lesbian, 01:19:37.838 --> 01:19:45.073 - bisexual, transgender individuals just be happy with partner benefits or civil unions? The very clear 01:19:45.073 --> 01:19:52.308 - and concise answer to that is that they are not the same. They are not equal in any way. Civil unions 01:19:52.308 --> 01:19:59.614 - are given on the state level. So they give you the state level rights that go along with the marriage. 01:19:59.874 --> 01:20:09.267 - But they don't give you any of the 1,500 federally issued rights, protections, and benefits that opposite-sex 01:20:09.267 --> 01:20:17.977 - couples will receive. And that puts same-sex couples at a severe disadvantage on a variety of issues, 01:20:17.977 --> 01:20:25.406 - hospital visitation, social security, transference of property, even with immigration. 01:20:26.402 --> 01:20:34.713 - It's the same thing. If your loved one or spouse is overseas, opposite-sex couples have that right to 01:20:34.713 --> 01:20:43.025 - sponsor them and bring them back over. Same-sex couples cannot do that, because their relationship is 01:20:43.025 --> 01:20:51.336 - not recognized in the eye of the federal government. So simply, it's just not equal. If it was equal, 01:20:51.336 --> 01:20:56.062 - but it's not. Plus, if you have civil unions or something 01:20:56.322 --> 01:21:03.221 - are basically putting a second class of people over here. You can be called this, but everyone else 01:21:03.221 --> 01:21:10.327 - can be called this. And we've already been through this several times. And separate but equal is never 01:21:10.327 --> 01:21:17.778 - equal. And it just does not work. And that's why full marriage equality is what we need. Because civilities 01:21:17.778 --> 01:21:22.814 - just do not address the issues that are brought up. And they never will. 01:21:26.018 --> 01:21:33.613 - That's where we are at right now. Thank you, Matt. I had a question for you. We talked about the legislation 01:21:33.613 --> 01:21:40.720 - going through in Matt's interview. Is there anything currently up in the state legislature that maybe 01:21:40.720 --> 01:21:47.897 - it would be good if more people were aware of, just to raise awareness? Yeah, there's a lot of things, 01:21:47.897 --> 01:21:54.238 - although by the time this program airs, it will be irrelevant or resolved. I mean, I think 01:21:54.594 --> 01:22:02.062 - There's a lot of things we're following, for example, I know there's a couple of bills to raise the 01:22:02.062 --> 01:22:09.904 - minimum wage. The minimum wage has not been raised in I don't know how many years. Yeah, I think there's 01:22:09.904 --> 01:22:17.447 - one bill that increases it to $6.50 an hour this July, and then another dollar a year from July, and 01:22:17.447 --> 01:22:22.302 - then a slightly watered down version of that. There's some bills 01:22:24.802 --> 01:22:32.932 - which is a great benefit to people with low incomes. There's also some things of concern in keeping 01:22:32.932 --> 01:22:41.225 - with the Dana's administration push, I think, to privatize things. There is, although we haven't seen 01:22:41.225 --> 01:22:49.356 - the details yet, some, I think, coming moves to try to privatize some state functions around social 01:22:49.356 --> 01:22:53.502 - services and consolidate some things, for example, 01:22:57.538 --> 01:23:04.483 - offices or some of them for a more streamlined government. A centralized government? Yeah. Does it seem 01:23:04.483 --> 01:23:11.228 - strange? We've actually had this discussion before. Does it seem strange to anyone that, like, Mitch 01:23:11.228 --> 01:23:17.973 - Daniels is obviously the conservative Republican. I always thought just from textbooks, I guess, and 01:23:17.973 --> 01:23:24.717 - from just what my parents educated me about politics, that conservative and Republican usually meant 01:23:24.717 --> 01:23:26.654 - less centralized government, 01:23:26.946 --> 01:23:33.570 - and more local government, more community government. Even from a state politician's level, you would 01:23:33.570 --> 01:23:40.324 - think more county government, less state government. From the level of nationally, you would think less 01:23:40.324 --> 01:23:47.338 - federal government, more state government. Ultimately, giving more and more power back to local governments 01:23:47.338 --> 01:23:53.118 - would be, I thought, what conservative would mean. Why is it that now conservative means 01:23:53.730 --> 01:24:00.350 - W as a conservative is taking more powers, like the gay marriage ban, which to me, I consider myself 01:24:00.350 --> 01:24:06.971 - self-sensitive to the issues that gay people experience. And I don't think that we should prosecute, 01:24:06.971 --> 01:24:13.722 - persecute anyone. But I almost feel like the biggest issue at hand is just the centralizing power. Why 01:24:13.722 --> 01:24:20.670 - would a conservative Republican president want to pass a gay marriage ban that takes states' rights away? 01:24:21.058 --> 01:24:27.951 - Why would the state government want to take counties and churches rights away? Because we see the faces 01:24:27.951 --> 01:24:34.844 - of each other. We can say, OK, I'm happy with your partner. You guys should get married. Does that seem 01:24:34.844 --> 01:24:41.869 - strange at all? I guess maybe you're a little bit older. Maybe you've seen more of the political process. 01:24:41.869 --> 01:24:48.496 - I don't mean to in any way date you, but maybe you'd have some comment on that. I think it's really 01:24:48.496 --> 01:24:49.822 - just budget driven. 01:24:50.530 --> 01:24:59.178 - The language to promote is always around increased efficiency of government and so on. But in fact, 01:24:59.178 --> 01:25:07.912 - it's a way to cut expenditures. And oftentimes the way that translates on the local level is what we 01:25:07.912 --> 01:25:17.078 - describe as unfunded mandates. In the arena of social services, for example, it's imperative that there's 01:25:17.078 --> 01:25:18.462 - a social safety 01:25:19.810 --> 01:25:26.680 - shelter or medicine. In my view, government has a fundamental obligation to provide that safety net. 01:25:26.680 --> 01:25:33.618 - And the role of the non-profit sector, the role of communities of faith is to supplement that, not to 01:25:33.618 --> 01:25:40.556 - replace it. And so I think it really boils down to a budget-driven process. Yeah, and I think we need 01:25:40.556 --> 01:25:47.494 - to remain vigilant and watch every year. That's why I'm going to question Matt's group. I mean, watch 01:25:47.494 --> 01:25:48.990 - every bill that comes 01:25:50.434 --> 01:25:58.918 - be there to testify at this time and calling the legislators. Just as an aside on the political process, 01:25:58.918 --> 01:26:07.078 - I think this is a cliche, but many of us assume that our individual vote or our voice, our call to a 01:26:07.078 --> 01:26:15.401 - legislator doesn't make a difference. And again, this all sounds like a civics class or something, but 01:26:15.401 --> 01:26:19.198 - years ago, a big part of my work in this field 01:26:24.130 --> 01:26:31.361 - couple things struck me right away. As I traveled to the state house every day and worked the committees 01:26:31.361 --> 01:26:38.523 - and all of that, I looked around and the state house was filled primarily with lobbyists in three-piece 01:26:38.523 --> 01:26:45.686 - suits. And then there was a handful of us. There were, oh, maybe six or seven groups, groups like mine, 01:26:45.686 --> 01:26:50.782 - which represented homeless shelters around the state, groups like Matt's. 01:26:53.922 --> 01:27:01.228 - so on, but you could very visibly see the balance of power in terms of how those decisions are made. 01:27:01.228 --> 01:27:08.678 - But the other thing that was more positive that I learned is part of my job was to try to mobilize the 01:27:08.678 --> 01:27:16.129 - grassroots, if you will, when crucial votes were coming up. And Zarek, on a daily basis, sometimes the 01:27:16.129 --> 01:27:17.214 - power of phone 01:27:23.394 --> 01:27:29.441 - and say, well, it wasn't clear what I was going to do on this issue, or I had a plan to support this 01:27:29.441 --> 01:27:35.788 - other position. But last night, I got all these phone calls from my constituents, and they pay attention. 01:27:35.788 --> 01:27:42.075 - That's good. That's good. It is possible to remove the vote. So for those of us that have become cynical 01:27:42.075 --> 01:27:48.062 - over the years, certainly it's good reason for the cynicism. But people still do have a role in the 01:27:48.062 --> 01:27:49.918 - process. That's great to hear. 01:27:50.402 --> 01:27:56.702 - I believe we're probably getting to the end of our time, and we want to give the Shantakla Band a chance 01:27:56.702 --> 01:28:02.702 - to play us out, since we haven't heard nearly enough from them tonight. And if anyone has any other 01:28:02.702 --> 01:28:09.002 - comments they'd like to make or anything, you're welcome to go ahead. But otherwise, I think we're going 01:28:09.002 --> 01:28:15.122 - to call it a night. I'd like to thank you, Joel Rikus, very much for coming on the show. And I'll see 01:28:15.122 --> 01:28:19.262 - you at dinner. And I'll see you in a bit. And CJ Young on the piano. 01:28:20.834 --> 01:28:34.366 - Thank you so much for having me. 01:28:52.386 --> 01:28:58.893 - We will be keeping you posted on guests for the show as well as hopefully, we're hoping that people 01:29:05.465 --> 01:29:11.582 - easy to log in too. Other than that, everyone have a wonderful evening and have a great week. 01:30:33.730 --> 01:30:39.986 - There's one particular segment that I just love because it's a high school football. I think he's a 01:30:39.986 --> 01:30:46.366 - little boy. He's a high school football player who comes out to his team. There was an ABC segment on 01:30:46.366 --> 01:30:52.810 - Nightline or something where they interview the whole team. And it was just wonderfully positive. Wow, 01:30:52.810 --> 01:30:59.378 - we didn't know we had gay friends. We didn't know we had gay teammates. We're with this guy. He's great. 01:30:59.378 --> 01:31:01.630 - The coach talks about the fact that 01:31:01.794 --> 01:31:17.735 - I really learned some things and I need to watch my language. Every tantric system has its own mandala, 01:31:17.735 --> 01:31:31.070 - and thus each one symbolizes an existential and spiritual approach. That of vajrapani, 01:31:31.394 --> 01:31:35.070 - emphasizes the need for courage and strength in the quest for sacred knowledge. 01:32:31.618 --> 01:32:45.421 - Pull my finger. I'll give you a release. I'm not guilty. You're the one who's guilty. All makers, 01:32:45.421 --> 01:33:00.350 - politicians, Colombian drug lords. All you lobby against making drugs legal. You're the one who's guilty. 01:33:01.474 --> 01:33:17.054 - This is big business. This is the American way. 01:33:18.242 --> 01:33:24.286 - Actually, Gabe, the guy who's pulling me on the camera stuff, came up to our porch like two weeks ago 01:33:24.286 --> 01:33:30.271 - or three weeks ago. He just picked a porch? Yeah. Wow. Well, he wanted a lighter. And they were just 01:33:30.271 --> 01:33:35.486 - like, yeah, cool one. And yeah. That's a good story. I like the way that's going. Yeah.