WEBVTT 00:00:00.866 --> 00:00:08.753 - So thank you for coming. This idea began from multiple perspectives. And one was a quote from a woman 00:00:08.753 --> 00:00:16.640 - that you may have seen in the paper named Crystal Banks, who talks about how she experienced enormous 00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:24.681 - shame being homeless. And she didn't want to tell anybody. And after the experience of feeling enormous 00:00:24.681 --> 00:00:30.558 - care from the community for her and eventually getting out of homelessness, 00:00:30.946 --> 00:00:39.047 - She said that she was humbled by that experience and now she's not afraid to tell people anymore that 00:00:39.047 --> 00:00:47.068 - she was homeless. She feels like she can just tell them and she felt empowered by the people and the 00:00:47.068 --> 00:00:55.169 - care that she experienced. And the other is a statue I saw recently that's been kind of controversial 00:00:55.169 --> 00:00:59.934 - and making the rounds and it's a statue of a man on a bench 00:01:00.290 --> 00:01:08.435 - covered in a blanket and then he has nails in his feet and it's called homeless Jesus and it and it's 00:01:08.435 --> 00:01:17.219 - made it stirred some controversy and and I think also empathy for people and so our purpose isn't necessarily 00:01:17.219 --> 00:01:25.204 - creating a religious object of art but but but that's kind of the inspiration can we create a piece 00:01:25.204 --> 00:01:28.638 - of art that that will turn people's hearts 00:01:28.738 --> 00:01:35.520 - you know, will turn people's minds and help them start thinking about, thinking about homelessness 00:01:35.520 --> 00:01:42.851 - differently. More than half of the people who are homeless right now are families with dependent children, 00:01:42.851 --> 00:01:49.770 - you know, and we don't, and when people talk about homelessness, that's not what they think, despite 00:01:49.770 --> 00:01:56.621 - that's the majority of people who are homeless in our community. When, you know, something like 10% 00:01:56.621 --> 00:01:58.334 - are veterans and 30% of, 00:01:58.530 --> 00:02:05.491 - the rest are mentally ill. And so it's, you know, when you start to look at it from that place and that 00:02:05.491 --> 00:02:12.319 - perspective, it defies the prejudice that we see. And, and hopefully this can be something to help us 00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:19.280 - see as a community, see things a little differently and see the, and treat people a little differently. 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:24.702 - You know, that's the, the inherent nature of prejudice is taking, is taking the, 00:02:25.346 --> 00:02:33.523 - you know, the opinion of a few and applying it to a group as a whole. And certainly some of the people 00:02:33.523 --> 00:02:41.621 - who we know are experiencing homelessness, their difficulties are such that some people consider them 00:02:41.621 --> 00:02:48.766 - inconvenient in our community or worse. And yet, you know, homelessness is so much bigger 00:02:48.962 --> 00:02:56.882 - and people who are experiencing that sense of being perceived as inconvenient need our empathy and care 00:02:56.882 --> 00:03:04.726 - too. So this is an attempt to, one attempt of many to kind of create something beautiful and inspiring 00:03:04.726 --> 00:03:10.590 - and hopefully something that builds empathy and care. This is a one of three 00:03:10.722 --> 00:03:17.496 - public sessions that we're going to have around this. We've had one already at the project school with 00:03:17.496 --> 00:03:24.138 - children at the project school and this is the second one and we're gonna have a third one at Shalom 00:03:24.138 --> 00:03:30.912 - Center, specifically targeting people who are homeless there so that we get a really full perspective. 00:03:30.912 --> 00:03:37.685 - So I'm glad that you've come and can offer your part in today. Anything else you want me to say before 00:03:37.685 --> 00:03:39.198 - we pass it off to you? 00:03:40.066 --> 00:03:47.114 - Yeah, we have a project that we that we call we're calling them more than homeless project and the and 00:03:47.114 --> 00:03:54.026 - the there's you know started with a Facebook page and and then up we had a big public event and this 00:03:54.026 --> 00:04:00.937 - is one of the first things to emerge out of that event. The other thing that's emerging very quickly 00:04:00.937 --> 00:04:06.206 - out of that event also is attempting to get housing status added to the anti 00:04:06.306 --> 00:04:14.978 - anti-discrimination clause, the Bloomington Human Rights Ordinance. So those two things have come quickly 00:04:14.978 --> 00:04:23.405 - out of that process, and we think there'll be a lot more. So we have a tentative theme or title, which 00:04:23.405 --> 00:04:29.214 - is more than homeless. Do you want me to talk about that a little bit? 00:04:29.922 --> 00:04:38.090 - Yeah, that's why I said tentative, yeah. Because we don't know what it's going to be called, ultimately. 00:04:38.090 --> 00:04:46.025 - But that's the concept or the theme. And that's the heart of it, is to help people see people who are 00:04:46.025 --> 00:04:53.805 - homeless as more, to help build that sense of empathy, to recognize the humanity of people. I mean, 00:04:53.805 --> 00:04:57.150 - again, prejudice is built on objectifying. 00:04:57.346 --> 00:05:04.733 - seeing people as a problem rather than as people. And that's another thing we want to try and move people 00:05:04.733 --> 00:05:11.980 - beyond is to help them move from that sense of problem to person. And so all those ideas are just doing 00:05:11.980 --> 00:05:19.018 - in my mind. The kids did an awesome job when I got to sit with them and I got their feedback. And so 00:05:19.018 --> 00:05:23.966 - I'm really looking forward to hearing what you guys want to offer too. 00:05:27.458 --> 00:05:35.742 - So they need the mic, Joe, for that. So if you want, I know it's a little awkward, but. Stage fright. 00:05:35.742 --> 00:05:43.946 - Not really, but should I be here or there? There? Okay. What I'm gonna do is just spend five minutes 00:05:43.946 --> 00:05:52.149 - to talk about the process so you understand what these ideas, how they're gonna be generated into an 00:05:52.149 --> 00:05:57.022 - actual work of art of some sort. I have no idea what it is. 00:05:57.122 --> 00:06:04.244 - which is always great. I mean, it's really hard not to think about it, so I, you know, it's like, blah, 00:06:04.244 --> 00:06:11.229 - blah, blah. What I've learned early in the process of doing this, I've been doing it for 20 years, is 00:06:11.229 --> 00:06:18.076 - that I had a kid come up with me, up to me in a school, and he said, Mr. Lamontillo, I don't see my 00:06:18.076 --> 00:06:25.130 - art anywhere. And I said to him, I said, you know, I try to use everybody's art, and I didn't use your 00:06:25.130 --> 00:06:26.910 - art, and I felt terrible. 00:06:27.330 --> 00:06:34.563 - I mean, it's like, ooh. So I developed this. I mean, that was a problem. So this is what feeds me as 00:06:34.563 --> 00:06:41.725 - an artist. You have a problem, you try to solve it creatively. And I think that's what happened. So 00:06:41.725 --> 00:06:49.173 - I create these project books. And what they are, I collect all the ideas, all the art that's generated, 00:06:49.173 --> 00:06:56.478 - and I put them in this book. And what I do in terms as a designer or a facilitator for an art project 00:06:56.802 --> 00:07:05.616 - is I look at all the ideas and I choose as many as I can to make them work. It's kind of like I become 00:07:05.616 --> 00:07:14.259 - a magnet and all these other little bits and pieces come together somehow. It's amazing. It's a very 00:07:14.259 --> 00:07:22.987 - intuitive process for me because I don't know how they're going to fit together. But when I know it's 00:07:22.987 --> 00:07:25.982 - done, I feel whole. I feel it just 00:07:26.658 --> 00:07:33.222 - I feel wonderful about it. I usually never give somebody two ideas. That's counterintuitive. You give 00:07:33.222 --> 00:07:39.914 - them one idea to look at because I put all my energy into that. Because if they choose the one I didn't 00:07:39.914 --> 00:07:46.414 - have as much as this, I'm not going to feel good about that. So I want to feel good about what I do. 00:07:46.414 --> 00:07:53.106 - And so I put all my energy into that. And that's pretty much how it works in terms of taking your ideas 00:07:53.106 --> 00:07:55.294 - and looking at them and trying to 00:07:55.490 --> 00:08:04.008 - see how they're interrelated, how they connect. Because I believe everything connects. That's the way 00:08:04.008 --> 00:08:13.027 - I look at the world. Everything's symbolic. It has a lot more depth than what you see. It's just beautiful. 00:08:13.027 --> 00:08:21.796 - What else can I say? For this project, usually again, I don't know beforehand what materials we're going 00:08:21.796 --> 00:08:25.470 - to use. But because we want to do this as a 00:08:26.306 --> 00:08:33.144 - community project that has to do with the homeless, I thought it would be really good to make it out 00:08:33.144 --> 00:08:40.050 - of recycled materials as much as possible because we want to take something that's a problem and make 00:08:40.050 --> 00:08:47.159 - it beautiful. And so we're going to take aluminum and the other part of it is keep the maintenance down. 00:08:47.159 --> 00:08:53.726 - And I also try to make it inclusive. So I try to think about how we can get many people involved 00:08:53.922 --> 00:09:00.385 - even from far away distance, they can mail me a license plate or something. So these are the sort of 00:09:00.385 --> 00:09:06.976 - things that are kind of germinating in my brain right now. So I told people at Scrapyard, save license 00:09:06.976 --> 00:09:13.951 - plates, save streets of science. And since I've been working for many years, they're very kind and generous, 00:09:13.951 --> 00:09:20.542 - and they're putting things aside for me. But again, that may change. I don't know. I mean, it's really 00:09:20.542 --> 00:09:22.526 - going to depend on your ideas. 00:09:23.810 --> 00:09:32.033 - But when it comes down to actual working, I'm going to be on the street because I really believe the 00:09:32.033 --> 00:09:40.418 - street's my studio. It invites everybody to see it and to participate. Again, it's about process. It's 00:09:40.418 --> 00:09:49.129 - not about magic. This is not magic. This is about participation and stepping forward and asking questions. 00:09:49.129 --> 00:09:53.118 - I try to make myself, if I put myself in a room, 00:09:53.282 --> 00:10:01.327 - you can easily not see me and I don't exist, you know, like that tree in the forest, you know. I want 00:10:01.327 --> 00:10:09.451 - to be a tree that you see right in front of you and you, you, I say you can come by, learn a new skill 00:10:09.451 --> 00:10:18.206 - if you like. I'm sure we're going to do a number of them and be part of it, you know, be part of the solution. 00:10:19.106 --> 00:10:26.124 - And that's the sort of generated art that I try to do. And you might even have a better idea in the 00:10:26.124 --> 00:10:33.282 - midst of what we're doing, and we'll change it. I mean, if it's something that really works. So I try 00:10:33.282 --> 00:10:40.370 - to be as open as possible. So with that, I'll just say, are there any questions at this point? Where 00:10:40.370 --> 00:10:47.739 - is it going to be sited? We've had discussions about it. I mean, a primary location is going to be right 00:10:47.739 --> 00:10:48.862 - in front of us. 00:10:49.634 --> 00:10:56.606 - on the Walnut Street, so it's a real nice visual. We've also talked about the concept, and we'll see 00:10:56.606 --> 00:11:03.509 - if that actually ends up with the idea of having an object that's movable, with the idea of placing 00:11:03.509 --> 00:11:10.688 - it elsewhere, but also the idea that homelessness is a moving thing. People are almost constantly asked 00:11:10.688 --> 00:11:15.934 - to move. And so there's actually some artistic quality to that possibility. 00:11:16.226 --> 00:11:26.125 - I mean, I think about the WFHB dog and how they use that in front of their location and then and it 00:11:26.125 --> 00:11:36.420 - appears in a parade or it appears at an event. And this might be a good thing for Shalom. I don't know. 00:11:36.420 --> 00:11:39.390 - I mean, that's just not. Yes. 00:11:42.978 --> 00:11:50.016 - It can be. It really can be. I just don't. I just made those suggestions as a starter. And yes. I mean, 00:11:50.016 --> 00:11:57.055 - I really can. I made several sculptures out of found objects. I just went and printed some, if you want 00:11:57.055 --> 00:12:04.296 - to see just examples. All of my sculptures are movable. Oh, good. They end up being sort of like creatures 00:12:04.296 --> 00:12:11.335 - or monsters or toys. This is kind of a variety. Old vacuum cleaners, exercise bike, weed eaters, chair. 00:12:11.335 --> 00:12:12.350 - This is great. 00:12:12.578 --> 00:12:20.960 - Are you a local artist here? Yeah, I'm here. OK, good. I just came down from Indianapolis about a year 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:29.180 - ago. Daryl. Daryl? Joe Lamantia. Nice to meet you. You too. In fact, I like working with artists. So 00:12:29.180 --> 00:12:37.318 - this is a good thing. Yes, ma'am? A suggestion that I gave a while back to solve homelessness. Take 00:12:37.318 --> 00:12:42.526 - an apartment complex. You have one that houses a few. It's new. 00:12:42.946 --> 00:12:51.551 - but take a large complex and put the homeless in and off the street. Let them do volunteer work in the 00:12:51.551 --> 00:13:00.322 - community to learn job skills and save the community money and pay for their bed. And then put job links 00:13:00.322 --> 00:13:08.843 - and the agencies in the building. And when they learn job skills, job links can give them employment. 00:13:08.843 --> 00:13:11.934 - And it would help the community out. 00:13:12.418 --> 00:13:20.518 - while helping themselves. OK, from what I hear, I'm going to put job skills. Because I don't know what 00:13:20.518 --> 00:13:28.619 - that means. I mean, see, this is a good thing. Having a large apartment complex to put them in to give 00:13:28.619 --> 00:13:36.798 - them sleeping beds, not full-size apartments, but sleeping beds, bunk beds. Beds? I like the word beds. 00:13:40.578 --> 00:13:48.718 - Joe, I wonder if it's possible also to address the materials to you. So what keeps coming to my mind 00:13:48.718 --> 00:13:56.859 - is whatever it is, what it's made out of, can it be made out of materials that suggest home? So like 00:13:56.859 --> 00:14:05.886 - silverware or, you know, what else? Old sinks or things that are, that are, that mean home, you know, that are, 00:14:12.642 --> 00:14:20.639 - Welcome to the military. Yeah, I mean, everybody's like, welcome home. So like, yeah, silverware, and 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:29.027 - welcome mats, and things like that. That's really interesting. Washing machines. Yeah. That's fascinating. 00:14:29.027 --> 00:14:37.024 - Yeah, pots and pans. Yeah, dishes. Yeah, china. Old china. Pieces of china. Sorry. I'm going too fast 00:14:37.024 --> 00:14:41.022 - here. Yeah, that's awesome. I was going to say it. 00:14:42.082 --> 00:14:59.006 - That's right, you got it. You did, that's right, you got it. 00:15:22.786 --> 00:15:30.069 - aware of what it means to be honest, or is it a concept that's more like a hand up versus a hand out? 00:15:30.069 --> 00:15:37.710 - You know, it seems to me... I was thinking the same thing. One of those is going to make the thing totally 00:15:37.710 --> 00:15:44.851 - different. So what does more than help? Say more about what more than help means. Well, I mean, the 00:15:44.851 --> 00:15:50.206 - concept is to stir a change of heart. Okay, I didn't want you to say that. 00:15:50.850 --> 00:15:58.446 - So to look at something and feel, to transcend the stereotype of homelessness. Well, I think Crystal 00:15:58.446 --> 00:16:06.267 - said it in her book. And it was something to do with, nobody takes the time to hear my story. Something 00:16:06.267 --> 00:16:14.014 - about a story. And that, sort of going back to what Tom said, there's a way of looking at homelessness 00:16:14.014 --> 00:16:20.030 - that is the reality of it. Just like mental illness, there's a reality to that. 00:16:20.482 --> 00:16:31.051 - and at any given time people are homeless. So are we trying to, we don't know what we're trying to do. 00:16:31.051 --> 00:16:41.621 - But there's a story there of people who are homeless. And then the next story is their redemption from 00:16:41.621 --> 00:16:49.214 - that or another life after that. And there's sort of like a tension there 00:16:54.658 --> 00:17:01.101 - I think I'm concerned about is that there's a kind of deficit thinking that always goes on, that there's 00:17:01.101 --> 00:17:07.483 - something wrong with these women. And that's what you were saying, I think. Is there a way to celebrate 00:17:07.483 --> 00:17:13.865 - something that's not a deficit? Yeah, and I think that represents something that you said early on that 00:17:13.865 --> 00:17:20.062 - I really agree with. And that is that there is a human web of inclusion. And that we were all a part 00:17:20.062 --> 00:17:24.542 - of this. We're all connected. So somehow demonstrating that connectivity 00:17:24.674 --> 00:17:33.177 - that what happens to this person really does make a difference to me, ultimately. And people frame that 00:17:33.177 --> 00:17:41.434 - in different ways. But I think that notion of human web of inclusion and that we're part of a caring 00:17:41.434 --> 00:17:49.855 - community. And that means at certain points in time, I'm a caregiver. But at other points in time, I'm 00:17:49.855 --> 00:17:54.270 - a care receiver. And that's part of all of our lives. 00:17:54.370 --> 00:18:03.613 - And so that's helped me, what helps connect us. And I'm sorry, I have to leave, but I have one other 00:18:03.613 --> 00:18:13.039 - idea that I wanted to share, and that's to make it responsive to multiple senses. So, okay, it's gonna 00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:19.902 - be visual, obviously, but is it something that people could touch and feel 00:18:20.770 --> 00:18:29.764 - And that there's an aspect of that. And maybe there's even something that if it's outside, there are 00:18:29.764 --> 00:18:38.848 - wind chimes or something that makes pleasant noise. Not horrible noise, but soothing kind of noise to 00:18:38.848 --> 00:18:48.020 - appeal to the hearing as well. So I just wanted to throw those out. And I really apologize that I have 00:18:48.020 --> 00:18:49.534 - to. Sound touch. 00:18:50.370 --> 00:18:58.480 - Just make it interactive. Yeah, interactive would be great. Motion. Yeah, motion. If it's something 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:06.753 - like a call, there won't be illusions. So the web of inclusion and connectedness and everything makes 00:19:06.753 --> 00:19:15.188 - me think of something for us that is something that I think most people are not aware of, which is that 00:19:15.188 --> 00:19:19.486 - the homeless people or the homeless in our community 00:19:19.842 --> 00:19:28.516 - have families and are parts of families, and they have children, whether they're grown up or not, and 00:19:28.516 --> 00:19:37.021 - that they are a family. The people who come to Shalom are a family of sorts. And so I keep thinking 00:19:37.021 --> 00:19:44.930 - that there has to be some way of showing familyness, community and familyness, and the range 00:19:44.930 --> 00:19:49.182 - of- Multi-generation. Yeah, and the fact that the 00:19:51.778 --> 00:20:00.076 - Families are both a strength for some of these people and a weakness, and that they're also problematic. 00:20:00.076 --> 00:20:08.374 - They've been estranged from their families. And in some cases, that's really dramatically affected their 00:20:08.374 --> 00:20:16.276 - lives. So the significance of family in the homeless community, and that's a way of seeing homeless 00:20:16.276 --> 00:20:20.702 - people who are experiencing homelessness as not as just 00:20:21.058 --> 00:20:29.084 - discrete individuals. You know, they're not just that guy and that woman. I mean, there are parts of 00:20:29.084 --> 00:20:37.110 - communities and families, too. Yes, ma'am. Long ago, Richard Hospital had Central State, which was a 00:20:37.110 --> 00:20:45.375 - complex of apartment buildings. They put all the talent homeless in, and then they helped them get jobs 00:20:45.375 --> 00:20:50.302 - from there and back out into society and their own apartment. 00:20:51.010 --> 00:21:05.534 - The only thing they didn't do that my new idea is volunteer work in the community to learn job skills. 00:21:05.534 --> 00:21:19.070 - But it worked for them and it can work down here. I have a thought about the motion interactive 00:21:23.010 --> 00:21:30.653 - Do you want me to write? Do you want me to write to you? So my idea before I do this is that I wonder 00:21:30.653 --> 00:21:38.220 - if it's possible to make part of it be movable and part of it be... Just say what you want. Yeah, so 00:21:38.220 --> 00:21:45.863 - this is what I was thinking about when you said about making it movable. It seems like part of it has 00:21:45.863 --> 00:21:52.606 - to stay and part of it has to go. Like if you could have a part of it that was removable, 00:21:52.930 --> 00:21:59.056 - then it kind of suggests like how homelessness breaks up things, you know, and how you have to move 00:21:59.056 --> 00:22:05.305 - around between come back to, and that's kind of like, Shalom is really a place that the people in the 00:22:05.305 --> 00:22:11.492 - community come back to all the time. Okay, just to surmise that, that's great. Okay. Revolving door, 00:22:11.492 --> 00:22:14.494 - that's another way of saying it, revolving door. 00:22:38.018 --> 00:22:47.010 - Yeah, go ahead. Oh, I think the sense of community is important. It goes both ways. For Bloomington 00:22:47.010 --> 00:22:56.451 - to feel community and good for homeless, but also homeless to understand that they have a responsibility 00:22:56.451 --> 00:23:06.072 - in the communities where they are living. And I think a lot of people have been impacted, some negatively, 00:23:06.072 --> 00:23:07.870 - by homeless people. 00:23:08.642 --> 00:23:17.256 - I think it would be good if somehow the homeless could get a sense of community themselves from this 00:23:17.256 --> 00:23:25.785 - sculpture. Maybe work on it or portray the idea of not just us accepting the homeless, but also the 00:23:25.785 --> 00:23:34.314 - homeless accepting that they're in a community and they have responsibility to their neighbors. And 00:23:34.314 --> 00:23:37.982 - I think that would be valuable and I think 00:23:38.210 --> 00:23:48.011 - go both ways, and it would build a lot for what I think that we're trying to accomplish. I don't know 00:23:48.011 --> 00:23:57.813 - how you can portray that through pieces of art, but maybe there's a process, or I'm not sure. I mean, 00:23:57.813 --> 00:24:07.806 - that is the sort of process that I do by making it inclusive. So inviting the people at Shalom as well, 00:24:08.098 --> 00:24:16.025 - as well as other organizations that help people who are in need to participate. They're welcome. To 00:24:16.025 --> 00:24:24.031 - make it really clear that people are welcome to, and they don't have to have a skill. They can just, 00:24:24.031 --> 00:24:32.355 - the willingness is so important. I try to say that over and over again. Don't let a skill keep you away. 00:24:32.355 --> 00:24:36.318 - You can even just watch. Everyone has that skill. 00:24:37.410 --> 00:24:45.418 - And from that, you're participating by watching. And then from that, you look forward and maybe learning 00:24:45.418 --> 00:24:53.120 - something in terms of a skill and applying it with the project. Yes? Yeah, right on that one, too. I 00:24:53.120 --> 00:25:00.823 - thought maybe this one turns around like it doesn't. Oh, like it doesn't? No, it doesn't. Would have 00:25:00.823 --> 00:25:01.662 - been nice. 00:25:22.018 --> 00:25:28.394 - Yeah, just like, you know, find something for each individual homeless person that goes to the community. 00:25:28.394 --> 00:25:34.830 - They don't have to be homeless, but just if they want to be part of it, just go find something interesting 00:25:34.830 --> 00:25:40.966 - that they would feel like would be part of all these things we're talking about. Right. Make it work. 00:25:40.966 --> 00:25:42.590 - Go out and find something. 00:25:54.018 --> 00:26:01.233 - talked about with the kids, which I thought was really interesting, is they came up with images. We 00:26:01.233 --> 00:26:08.448 - actually had them write images and draw images. And so one of the images that they came up with was 00:26:08.448 --> 00:26:15.663 - playing with the idea of walking in another person's shoes. And maybe even actually having shoes of 00:26:15.663 --> 00:26:22.590 - different kinds that people could literally step into, which I just thought was so interesting. 00:26:22.786 --> 00:26:30.356 - stirred me, too, is just that idea of how many, like the web of inclusion, I think, kind of brings it, 00:26:30.356 --> 00:26:37.706 - too. It's like, what are these metaphors that we have in our society for how we empathize with each 00:26:37.706 --> 00:26:45.130 - other? And that's a classic one, that of walking a mile in someone else's shoes. And it just made me 00:26:45.130 --> 00:26:51.230 - think, what else is out there that symbolically helps us think about other people? 00:26:51.458 --> 00:26:58.294 - like sharing the load or shoulder to cry on. It's a metaphoric dialogue. I mean, I personally think 00:26:58.294 --> 00:27:05.472 - you can't walk in anybody's shoes, but that's another story. But I mean, one way you learn about someone 00:27:05.472 --> 00:27:12.377 - else is you engage in a conversation with them, a genuine conversation. And I don't know if that can 00:27:12.377 --> 00:27:19.486 - be depicted. I'm not a nerd. Well, you made me think of this, that you can become homeless by a natural 00:27:19.486 --> 00:27:20.990 - event. Sure. Tornado. 00:27:22.018 --> 00:27:31.801 - flooding. How many people have, you know, have homes that were, and they have jobs, but suddenly something 00:27:31.801 --> 00:27:40.944 - happens and it's just taken away from them. And maybe the interim, maybe, you know, whatever it is, 00:27:40.944 --> 00:27:50.270 - even though they witnessed maybe being with cousins or friends for whatever time it takes for them to 00:27:50.978 --> 00:27:58.158 - rebuild their homes, or resettle, they're homeless. Yeah, and I wish there was a way to depict that 00:27:58.158 --> 00:28:05.409 - these people aren't, as Forrest, you mentioned earlier, the type of people that we, that many people 00:28:05.409 --> 00:28:12.876 - might envision as being homeless, that they are parents with children and they are, you know, just like 00:28:12.876 --> 00:28:20.414 - you and me, you know, and because of an event of some kind. And I think that's the hardest for people to 00:28:20.578 --> 00:28:28.379 - recognize that they're like you and me. That's why it's hard to talk about. That's why it becomes a 00:28:28.379 --> 00:28:36.492 - stigma, because we can't even imagine that we could be in that place. Yes. Yes. Yeah, and I don't know, 00:28:36.492 --> 00:28:44.293 - again, I'm not an artist, but it would be wonderful to, just bouncing on what Sheri said, to have a 00:28:44.293 --> 00:28:49.598 - piece of art that somehow evades people's fear, because I think the 00:28:49.858 --> 00:28:56.804 - The part of the problem in the dialogue is that people are afraid and they're so there because it's 00:28:56.804 --> 00:29:03.819 - the unknown and because they're afraid that they're afraid of everything That's why you said about a 00:29:03.819 --> 00:29:10.834 - stigma and mental illness is a stigma homelessness is a stigma and it's very hard just like you said 00:29:10.834 --> 00:29:11.806 - you feel like 00:29:12.290 --> 00:29:18.682 - might be offending somebody by giving them a meal or we don't know what to do. And consequently, so 00:29:18.682 --> 00:29:25.202 - many people just turn away because they just don't know what to do. Isn't it strange? I mean, to have 00:29:25.202 --> 00:29:31.659 - that feeling like you see somebody there and you just want to give them some food. I had some person 00:29:31.659 --> 00:29:38.051 - look at me and say, and I wasn't sure what they said, but it's like maybe there wasn't enough money 00:29:38.051 --> 00:29:42.014 - I gave them or something. And I thought, that's another whole 00:29:42.434 --> 00:29:52.328 - dimension itself, I insulted that person by, you know, like gave him whatever change I had in my pocket. 00:29:52.328 --> 00:30:01.845 - That could be an insult. But don't think of it as that. I just want to give. Right. And so that is a 00:30:01.845 --> 00:30:08.158 - very strange sort of place to be. It's real tension. It really is. 00:30:08.834 --> 00:30:15.026 - Or it's you and me, us and them, that sort of thing instead of we? Yeah. That's why I like this gentleman 00:30:15.026 --> 00:30:21.100 - just talking about the community thing. Because it's so much othering these people. They're over there. 00:30:21.100 --> 00:30:27.058 - They're other than we are. But they're not. They're the same as we are. They just are in bad shape in 00:30:27.058 --> 00:30:33.016 - some particular set of circumstances. They're what the grace of God does on the rest of us. So if you 00:30:33.016 --> 00:30:35.294 - can do what he's talking about, if you 00:30:35.842 --> 00:30:42.954 - this sense of coming together, or mutual responsibility, or dialogue, or web, or whatever. Those are, 00:30:42.954 --> 00:30:50.206 - you know, if I were to kind of sort through these, there's a lot of them around that idea. I think that 00:30:50.206 --> 00:30:57.318 - would be a very cool idea. I don't know, you're good at this stuff. I don't know if you ever heard of 00:30:57.318 --> 00:31:04.290 - Martha Beck. She's like a life coaching. She says that when she works with people in life coaching, 00:31:04.290 --> 00:31:05.406 - she talks about 00:31:06.498 --> 00:31:13.220 - the fear of being a bag lady. One of the greatest fears that, in this case she was speaking about women 00:31:13.220 --> 00:31:19.748 - that she was working with, they have is this terror that one day they would be a bag lady, so as she 00:31:19.748 --> 00:31:26.599 - put it. And so there is this kind of massive fear that I think all of us on some deep level are terrified 00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:33.450 - of becoming homeless. That's like one of the worst things that could happen to us and one of the scariest 00:31:33.450 --> 00:31:35.518 - things that could happen to us. 00:31:37.378 --> 00:31:44.463 - And so it does break down that conversation. If you find them uncomfortable in that place of fear, you 00:31:44.463 --> 00:31:51.410 - don't want to have anything to do with it because it's terrifying. And I think that goes back to the 00:31:51.410 --> 00:31:58.426 - community family thing. I mean, what underlies part of that fear is what becoming the back lady means 00:31:58.426 --> 00:32:02.622 - is that you're alone and you're abandoned and there's no one 00:32:03.618 --> 00:32:12.185 - that you can turn to for help or support. Your community is gone. Your family is gone. And so it ties 00:32:12.185 --> 00:32:21.087 - back into that. That's part of the fear. And I always look at fear this way. Fear is you and the distance 00:32:21.087 --> 00:32:29.990 - between it. And so you think by not looking at it, whatever it is, or not getting close to it, or walking 00:32:29.990 --> 00:32:31.166 - away from it, 00:32:31.746 --> 00:32:39.731 - You're going to be OK, but you're putting more distance. And by more distance, you have more fear. And 00:32:39.731 --> 00:32:47.561 - vulnerability. It's an axiom or I don't know what the word is, but it's a reverse of what you think. 00:32:47.561 --> 00:32:55.624 - Well, the same with being vulnerable. Being vulnerable suggests that there's some weakness on your part 00:32:55.624 --> 00:33:01.438 - or the other person's part to engage. And yet, vulnerability suggests that 00:33:01.666 --> 00:33:10.550 - That's what can open the door to connectivity, is allowing yourself to sort of let go of that fear and 00:33:10.550 --> 00:33:19.261 - being vulnerable enough to speak truth. Well, it's been my experience over this 20 years to just say 00:33:19.261 --> 00:33:27.886 - this, that when I approach people in schools or in communities to do projects, I can't tell you the 00:33:27.886 --> 00:33:31.422 - feeling I get of people wanting to give. 00:33:31.618 --> 00:33:38.984 - I think it's a human nature to give, to really give on oneself. I know. It's easy to give the money, 00:33:38.984 --> 00:33:46.495 - and it's easy to give towards an organization that helps people that were not comfortable being among. 00:33:46.495 --> 00:33:54.007 - But what would it mean for us if we became vulnerable enough to say, you know, I'm going to meet these 00:33:54.007 --> 00:34:00.862 - people face to face. I want them to meet me face to face. And what kind of change would occur 00:34:02.242 --> 00:34:14.495 - We interact it that way. Obviously, we need people with pockets to give towards infrastructure for helping 00:34:14.495 --> 00:34:26.291 - people who are the most vulnerable. But if we change that around to doing more interaction. Maybe part 00:34:26.291 --> 00:34:31.902 - of the fear is just the emotionalness of it all. 00:34:32.866 --> 00:34:41.089 - of how, I mean, compassion, how, I mean, you can just cry because the story is so sad, or you get really 00:34:41.089 --> 00:34:49.390 - angry because it's so sad, or that it's not right, it's not, you know, all the injustice. I mean, there's 00:34:49.390 --> 00:34:57.378 - a lot about stories that, you know, I'm hoping with this project that we have these other elements of 00:34:57.378 --> 00:35:00.510 - maybe even documenting people's stories 00:35:01.410 --> 00:35:13.164 - and maybe even using photographs to some extent. Yes. Just embellishing. Editing. Oh, I meant. Sorry. 00:35:13.164 --> 00:35:25.380 - Occupational hazards. Well, I didn't mean my story, but I was the third person. My story and their story. 00:35:25.380 --> 00:35:26.878 - Yep, got it. 00:35:35.714 --> 00:35:42.530 - I don't know how long it would take us to make something, but as an artist you probably appreciate the 00:35:42.530 --> 00:35:49.610 - process of making art is pretty much the best part to me. It is. The actual process. The finished product. 00:35:49.610 --> 00:35:56.426 - That's right. That's always nice to move on to something. So during the process we can incorporate all 00:35:56.426 --> 00:35:58.014 - the personal stories or 00:36:02.594 --> 00:36:11.837 - Right. I mean, because this is a BCAT and this is a community radio station, I just want to invite people 00:36:11.837 --> 00:36:20.557 - to think about making this project something that they might want to do as a documentary. Students, 00:36:20.557 --> 00:36:29.626 - professionals. It's all about collaboration. It's all about coming together and making these decisions. 00:36:29.626 --> 00:36:31.806 - When I first moved here, 00:36:32.130 --> 00:36:40.635 - One of the things I felt was that I don't have to be New York to live to be an artist. I can be right 00:36:40.635 --> 00:36:49.224 - here and I can do my art. And people are going to come from New York to see that. Just turn the table. 00:36:49.224 --> 00:36:57.812 - You make here where you live, you're a poet. And make it your community. And it was a real interesting 00:36:57.812 --> 00:36:59.230 - sort of thought. 00:37:01.698 --> 00:37:30.174 - I wonder if you could have a conversation back here too. 00:37:30.530 --> 00:37:39.201 - I wonder if you can embed within whatever art piece it is some excerpts of some stories that are woven 00:37:39.201 --> 00:37:48.125 - through. You know, just like we see on any kind of statues, you know, there are quotes, there are sayings 00:37:48.125 --> 00:37:56.796 - from their writings on the wall, whatever. You know, it's their story and maybe excerpts of that woven 00:37:56.796 --> 00:37:59.742 - throughout. The brain interactors. 00:38:03.682 --> 00:38:12.430 - where you can write on it and stuff. Were there inscriptions on this? I can't remember. I don't know 00:38:12.430 --> 00:38:21.611 - whether it was both of them. There were just notes with things you could write. But adding an interactive 00:38:21.611 --> 00:38:29.406 - component, that could be ongoing. I mean, writing on the wall is one of the best examples 00:38:32.418 --> 00:38:40.317 - Project Joe did years ago, and the difficulty with that is that it's not, you have to monitor it, but 00:38:40.317 --> 00:38:48.139 - it could be a piece of. But it was also movable. It was movable. And actually, when I didn't monitor 00:38:48.139 --> 00:38:56.270 - it, I mean, that was, things happen which are just perfect. Just perfect. But it could be an educational 00:38:56.270 --> 00:39:02.078 - component like that. Maybe there's a part of it that's walking in and out. 00:39:02.594 --> 00:39:13.946 - interact with it. Yeah, right. This was a project Joe did that asked, what is democracy? And then people 00:39:13.946 --> 00:39:25.407 - just went crazy. Sherry was, she was the head of that. Is there a time that this is going to be achieved? 00:39:25.407 --> 00:39:31.678 - Do you mean a time in terms started at least? I'm hoping. 00:39:32.322 --> 00:39:40.684 - As I said in the paper, I'm hoping that by the end of this month, hopefully we can start. But that might 00:39:40.684 --> 00:39:48.966 - be a little early. I don't know. We'll see. But within the next, I'd say the next four weeks, we should 00:39:48.966 --> 00:39:57.407 - start. And I'm thinking it'll take, it's always hard to gauge this, but anywhere from two to eight weeks, 00:39:57.407 --> 00:40:01.150 - or even 10 weeks, depending on the complexity. 00:40:01.538 --> 00:40:09.239 - and the involvement that's needed to do something like this, whatever it is. But we have two great places 00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:16.577 - that we're going to work. I didn't mention that. One would be in front of WFHB as a site. That won't 00:40:16.577 --> 00:40:23.988 - be as long because they're going to do some construction there. So I have to be about the end of July 00:40:23.988 --> 00:40:31.326 - for that site. And then the other site will be at Rhinos. And both sites, of course, I want it to be 00:40:31.554 --> 00:40:41.129 - in the city and have visibility. And if we have to move again, possibly at the site for Shalom, which 00:40:41.129 --> 00:40:50.517 - is across the way. But I wanted it as much central as possible so people could see what's going on. 00:40:50.517 --> 00:40:59.998 - And put it in places that have importance, like WFHB Community Radio, Rhinos, that's a teenage club. 00:41:00.738 --> 00:41:10.887 - for kids, and it's such an important asset to the community. So that's the sort of sights we're looking 00:41:10.887 --> 00:41:20.938 - at. So it won't have to be mobile? Well, it will be mobile in that sense. Yeah, it will move. It might 00:41:20.938 --> 00:41:28.062 - require some heavy equipment to move it. But we have that taken care of. 00:41:30.722 --> 00:41:37.449 - You can build that guitar, you can build it. Yeah, exactly. Well, the city was helpful in that. Came 00:41:37.449 --> 00:41:44.175 - with a forklift, put it on the thing. Actually, we have Bloomington Crane who's going to help. If we 00:41:44.175 --> 00:41:50.969 - have to lift it, whatever it is, and mount it or something, they're going to do that. We also have an 00:41:50.969 --> 00:41:57.696 - architect and engineer who will help to make sure that what we do is stable enough. I always like to 00:41:57.696 --> 00:41:59.294 - have that in a project. 00:41:59.554 --> 00:42:07.770 - just so that people's minds are at ease about the integrity. I had a school where a maintenance person 00:42:07.770 --> 00:42:15.986 - came up and said, what are you doing here? I worked with a utility company. They were going to set the 00:42:15.986 --> 00:42:24.202 - poles. They used their nuts and bolts. Couldn't get any better, and he backed off. But it was just the 00:42:24.202 --> 00:42:28.350 - fact that it's so important to work with people who 00:42:28.866 --> 00:42:36.043 - are professional, as well as working people who aren't professional, to get that balance. And that's 00:42:36.043 --> 00:42:43.291 - what it's all about, is having a balance when you do an art project or any project, so that everybody 00:42:43.291 --> 00:42:50.397 - has input. So what is the, are we gonna brainstorm actual shapes or things over this? Well, you can 00:42:50.397 --> 00:42:57.503 - submit some shapes and drawings, yeah, that's fine. I just wondered. Of course. Yeah, I'd be really 00:42:57.503 --> 00:42:58.782 - curious if people 00:42:58.882 --> 00:43:06.061 - have images that pop into their head that when you think about this, what are the pictures that come 00:43:06.061 --> 00:43:13.383 - to you if you're a pictured kind of person? Well, I think of obviously the kitchen table or the table, 00:43:13.383 --> 00:43:20.847 - which of course has already been done down at the farmer's market, the banquet table. But when you think 00:43:20.847 --> 00:43:27.742 - of engaging and people sitting around the table, I mean, that has been sort of the central place 00:43:27.970 --> 00:43:35.279 - many times for people to engage. It's just around food. And when I think of the work I've done, 00:43:35.279 --> 00:43:42.740 - you know, at the community kitchen over the years, I mean, that's where people come and eat. And, 00:43:42.740 --> 00:43:50.810 - you know, we as I don't think that that crosses every barrier, sitting at a table and eating and enjoying 00:43:50.810 --> 00:43:53.246 - conversation. Sitting, sitting. 00:43:53.474 --> 00:43:59.958 - Do you know what I mean? Totally. In fact, let me just say as an artist, when I take your thought of, 00:43:59.958 --> 00:44:06.505 - just so you understand, when I say, when you say that, even though Dale did a great piece, the kitchen 00:44:06.505 --> 00:44:13.053 - table, isn't that you can't do another kitchen table, but that's not, I know that's not what you mean, 00:44:13.053 --> 00:44:19.791 - the essence of it. Yeah, it's the meaning behind it. So he's taking that essence and how that can connect 00:44:19.791 --> 00:44:22.270 - with something else and there you are. 00:44:22.594 --> 00:44:32.484 - thinking about that, I imagine two people talking to each other. One is situated in this kind of environment 00:44:32.484 --> 00:44:41.649 - where there are multiple license plates, and it's conveying the image of, I live in multiple places, 00:44:41.649 --> 00:44:50.904 - I'm mobile, and the environment of the other person conveys stability, and they're both talking about 00:44:50.904 --> 00:44:51.902 - something. 00:44:52.130 --> 00:44:59.485 - almost like a dinner with Andre. Sort of a sadness conversation. But you have to have this environment 00:44:59.485 --> 00:45:06.840 - situation to understand something about the nature of their conversation. So I'm saying. And then when 00:45:06.840 --> 00:45:14.194 - we put it all together, what are the common elements then that really there are no differences between 00:45:14.194 --> 00:45:20.478 - the two? Right. I mean, when you think about food, you think about how to prepare food. 00:45:20.706 --> 00:45:29.884 - You have objects, you have things like spices. And all those things have symbolism. You have a spice 00:45:29.884 --> 00:45:38.970 - thing filled with something else. More meaning to it. I mean, it's sort of playfulness. And I think 00:45:38.970 --> 00:45:48.421 - that homeless can relate to that. I mean, there's something in their lives that they can remember about 00:45:48.421 --> 00:45:50.238 - that and relate to. 00:45:52.994 --> 00:45:59.929 - When I think of the visuals of the images, like Tom, I think of people. That's what we're talking about. 00:45:59.929 --> 00:46:06.731 - We're talking about people. So I don't know. It just comes to mind. I keep thinking of families. Yeah, 00:46:06.731 --> 00:46:13.534 - an image of a family comes to mind. An image of a veteran comes to my mind a lot, too. Yeah, different 00:46:13.534 --> 00:46:19.742 - types of people sitting around that kitchen table. Very different. Or what makes up a family. 00:46:20.386 --> 00:46:27.790 - the veteran with his hat on with all of his, you know, we were at Tom's Mother's at Autumn Hills for 00:46:27.790 --> 00:46:35.268 - people with dementia. Last night we were at a dinner there and a man, you know, in his 80s, you know, 00:46:35.268 --> 00:46:42.819 - I was talking with him, trying to talk with him, but he had his veteran's hat on from World War II and 00:46:42.819 --> 00:46:48.830 - he must have had 30 silver buttons on his hat. You know, you just think a veteran 00:46:48.930 --> 00:46:57.027 - there are so many people who are vulnerable and who could be depicted around a table. Right. There's 00:46:57.027 --> 00:47:04.402 - a lot of things that make somebody homeless or without a home, or without a home. Homeless, 00:47:04.402 --> 00:47:12.579 - without a home. That could mean a lot of different things, without a home. Yeah, that's true. I mean, 00:47:12.579 --> 00:47:17.630 - you could be homeless and have a room. It's almost like, well, 00:47:18.466 --> 00:47:27.360 - That is a house, isn't it, or something? But you're isolated. One of the things that we've been playing 00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:35.911 - with the tagline for the center, and it's for all who seek home. It emphasizes one of the things we 00:47:35.911 --> 00:47:44.463 - do is homelessness, but it also emphasizes we do a lot more than homelessness. It's that seeking of 00:47:44.463 --> 00:47:46.430 - home, which is bigger. 00:47:47.682 --> 00:47:55.455 - And I don't know how you put that into an image, but I think that's what you're kind of talking about. 00:47:55.455 --> 00:48:03.077 - Right. I mean, people have houses. But is that your home? Yeah. There's a difference between a house 00:48:03.077 --> 00:48:10.699 - and a home. Yeah, exactly. So that's a distinction I make for myself. This is my home. It's not just 00:48:10.699 --> 00:48:17.566 - somewhere I stay. Yeah, there's meaning behind it. Right. So it's going to be challenging. 00:48:18.178 --> 00:48:25.810 - And I think it's going to be exciting in that challenge. I'm sorry. Please. Something simplistic that 00:48:25.810 --> 00:48:33.517 - flashed into my mind as I read on your Facebook inviting everyone to come to this brainstorming event, 00:48:33.517 --> 00:48:40.999 - I got a flash of a spiral. Just very simple, but especially not just with veterans, but with people 00:48:40.999 --> 00:48:46.686 - that experience homelessness, how fast someone can experience homelessness. 00:48:47.074 --> 00:48:56.758 - So like you said, with a natural event, or such as mental illness, how fast you can spiral into homelessness. 00:48:56.758 --> 00:49:05.826 - It can happen faster than I think a lot of people realize. So I just see a spiral person. I think it's 00:49:05.826 --> 00:49:14.718 - simple with a lot of them, I guess. My in-laws are moving. They've moved. And now we're dealing with 00:49:14.718 --> 00:49:15.774 - their home. 00:49:16.482 --> 00:49:26.178 - They took some stuff they want and some other stuff they don't want. And I'm just experiencing stuff. 00:49:26.178 --> 00:49:35.493 - And how does stuff define who we are? My stuff, your junk, my treasure, it's just stuff. Objects, 00:49:35.493 --> 00:49:45.854 - you know, objects. I mean, they have stories. I guess objects have stories. But that's why this stuff really 00:49:46.146 --> 00:49:54.881 - resonates with because objects do tell stories. And when you look at an object, you look at a bed or 00:49:54.881 --> 00:50:03.702 - a fork, you have a story that comes to your mind. Your bed, your fork, your room, your table. I mean, 00:50:03.702 --> 00:50:11.831 - as an artist, I'm just going to say all this stuff here. All these ideas and just one second. 00:50:11.831 --> 00:50:15.550 - There's a lot. I mean, I wouldn't have to. 00:50:16.770 --> 00:50:28.199 - We just did this and be enough. Oh, yeah. I was wondering if there would be perhaps two projects, one 00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:39.964 - for encourage law and the other one for use in schools. And I'm just looking at it as part of a teaching 00:50:39.964 --> 00:50:45.790 - project. I'm looking at the statement there walking 00:50:53.058 --> 00:51:03.351 - And just thinking in terms of a school environment, could you create such a piece that had all these 00:51:03.351 --> 00:51:13.645 - different shoes and that as part of the education for homelessness in schools, you would have people 00:51:13.645 --> 00:51:19.454 - give seven other people shoes like this and then imagine 00:51:23.074 --> 00:51:35.129 - My five-year-old, yesterday I was talking to him about homelessness, and I said, what do you think that 00:51:35.129 --> 00:51:46.953 - is? And he said, so he thought about it for a minute, and he's just getting to the point where he has 00:51:46.953 --> 00:51:51.358 - these ideas. And it's so fascinating. 00:51:51.618 --> 00:51:57.311 - He doesn't have the fear that you can develop an adulthood. So I said, what do you think to be homeless? 00:51:57.311 --> 00:52:02.951 - Do you think they have a home? Do they have a home or do they not? And he said, I don't think they have 00:52:02.951 --> 00:52:08.373 - a home. And I said, well, what do you think we can do for these people? And he goes, well, he goes, 00:52:08.373 --> 00:52:13.849 - well, what do you do? And I said, well, sometimes you try to do service volunteering. Maybe you feed 00:52:13.849 --> 00:52:19.272 - them. Maybe you can give them money for food or things like that. He's like, oh, well, if you don't 00:52:19.272 --> 00:52:21.278 - have money, you can give them a hug. 00:52:21.634 --> 00:52:27.964 - And I said, that's true. We can. And he said, well, can't we share our home? And I love that innocence. 00:52:27.964 --> 00:52:34.171 - I think that's wonderful to tap into that. Because as adults, we develop that fear of association. As 00:52:34.171 --> 00:52:40.501 - a five-year-old, he doesn't know what reputation is. He doesn't have any of those things. So he's like, 00:52:40.501 --> 00:52:46.891 - well, why can't you share your home with these people? If they don't have one, give them one type thing. 00:52:46.891 --> 00:52:49.630 - I think that innocence is great to tap into. 00:52:52.546 --> 00:53:01.010 - I mean, going with this with education, being able to help be a force of change, having young children 00:53:01.010 --> 00:53:09.720 - come up with ideas and come up with sayings and come up with visuals, that could be very powerful. Right. 00:53:09.720 --> 00:53:18.430 - I just think of how I reacted negatively towards homelessness. My son would have then reacted negatively. 00:53:31.202 --> 00:53:38.536 - One of the things they did, I don't think you were here when we talked about the Homeless Jesus art 00:53:38.536 --> 00:53:45.944 - piece that they have, which is a man basically sleeping on a bench with a blanket covering his nails 00:53:45.944 --> 00:53:53.352 - and his feet. So it's called Homeless Jesus. But one of the things they did is they leave a space at 00:53:53.352 --> 00:53:59.806 - the end of the bench for people to sit. And it makes me think about that, how you could 00:54:00.258 --> 00:54:07.985 - like implicit in the art pieces is the element of interaction. You know, it's built into it. And one 00:54:07.985 --> 00:54:15.941 - possibility would be following up on the idea of the table. Empty seats. Empty seats. Yeah. That's what 00:54:15.941 --> 00:54:23.592 - we could sit. Yeah. Multiple people could sit. Just like Herman Wells on campus. Exactly. He's very 00:54:23.592 --> 00:54:29.406 - nice to Herman. So yeah, empty chairs. I don't know, but just little spaces 00:54:39.682 --> 00:54:46.240 - And if you had, I was thinking from what you were saying, you have a veteran and you have a family, 00:54:46.240 --> 00:54:53.323 - you have other people, and then you have them in the chair, I was wondering how you could get the community 00:54:53.323 --> 00:54:59.947 - into it and that sort of thing. Yeah. The other thing you could still do with the shoes, I mean, you 00:54:59.947 --> 00:55:00.734 - could have, 00:55:09.506 --> 00:55:18.167 - way to move that shoe piece into it, too, I think. I did this one project where it was the School of 00:55:18.167 --> 00:55:26.743 - Inquiry up in Indianapolis. And a kid came up with this big question mark. We were going to do that 00:55:26.743 --> 00:55:35.318 - as a sculpture. And the city said, no, you can't. That's too much like a sign. I said, well, it's a 00:55:35.318 --> 00:55:39.006 - question mark. Well, I couldn't find that. 00:55:39.586 --> 00:55:47.115 - So I said, well, what if we just put a dot there? Would that be all right? OK. So then we took the other 00:55:47.115 --> 00:55:54.858 - part of the question mark. We put it on the sidewalk and in the parking lot. And we gave it a big presence. 00:55:54.858 --> 00:56:02.172 - And as an outline, we had kids have chalk. And they just colored in it all the time, added things. So 00:56:02.172 --> 00:56:09.342 - it became a way of having interaction. And it was really great. That problem became such a success. 00:56:09.762 --> 00:56:17.342 - by changing it up. So that whole idea of making something available for people to fill in with stories, 00:56:17.342 --> 00:56:24.849 - drawings, that's, yeah. It would be, you know, the interaction part of it too makes me think about the 00:56:24.849 --> 00:56:32.210 - sculpture down in front of City Hall that has the water thing that all the kids walk in. It would be 00:56:32.210 --> 00:56:39.134 - lovely to be able to do something that would encourage that kind of play, that would encourage 00:56:40.098 --> 00:56:47.851 - you know, nice, just fun interaction with kids or whatever. The thing is, when you have the pen in your 00:56:47.851 --> 00:56:55.379 - hand and you have ideas, you've got to write them down. It'd be interesting, too. I mean, we do have 00:56:55.379 --> 00:57:02.983 - that religious line, but I mean, you've done an angel before, which kind of, angels kind of transcend 00:57:02.983 --> 00:57:08.350 - religion. But if you had this table, you know, with all these different 00:57:09.282 --> 00:57:16.387 - And I think if we did do something like that, we'd want to have more than one empty seat. But one, I 00:57:16.387 --> 00:57:23.773 - think it'd be interesting to have some kind of immediate angel sitting in one of the seats of the table, 00:57:23.773 --> 00:57:30.878 - just kind of elevating the sacredness of it. And that's one of the things I think that that homeless 00:57:30.878 --> 00:57:38.334 - Jesus piece does, that it kind of says, forgive me for being religious, but it kind of says, God is here. 00:57:39.010 --> 00:57:46.949 - God is not ignoring the poor. God is actually here, and where people think God would least likely be, 00:57:46.949 --> 00:57:54.965 - this is where God is. This is where God is. Yeah. And that's what's so stark about that piece, is that 00:57:54.965 --> 00:58:03.293 - it kind of makes you realize what you consider as holy is in the place of what society deems as incredibly 00:58:03.293 --> 00:58:06.718 - not holy. Well, and that sculpture that you 00:58:09.826 --> 00:58:23.192 - So, you know, that, you know, for those who are religious, you know, the son of God was homeless, 00:58:23.192 --> 00:58:33.694 - you know, had no place to lay his head. And so that's where holiness occurs. 00:58:41.954 --> 00:58:49.576 - even if you couldn't relate to it from a religious aspect, the way it would be able to translate to 00:58:49.576 --> 00:58:57.045 - others who did not have that religious perspective would be worse. Because even if not religious, 00:58:57.045 --> 00:59:04.971 - you do see, it's still, things that are considered religious still are show worth. Yeah, it's just like 00:59:04.971 --> 00:59:11.678 - you and me, same as we are, not others. Right, exactly. It would almost be nice to have 00:59:12.194 --> 00:59:21.461 - corporations wanting to say, we'd like to participate in your project. We will set aside 10 jobs for 00:59:21.461 --> 00:59:30.912 - 10 people. We'll try to do that every six months. Wouldn't that be great? Yes. Wouldn't that be great? 00:59:30.912 --> 00:59:40.638 - Because we realize that if you have jobs, if you have income, that gives you power. It gives you dignity. 00:59:42.082 --> 00:59:48.871 - I mean, dignity is the fact that you can help yourself as well as be helped. And I think that's such 00:59:48.871 --> 00:59:55.525 - an important element. I mean, as an artist, I can't do that. I mean, in some ways, I can in a way. 00:59:55.525 --> 01:00:02.448 - But I mean, it's not a job, but it's participating. Maybe give you a sense of pride because you helped 01:00:02.448 --> 01:00:06.078 - do this. But for the corporations out there or people 01:00:06.754 --> 01:00:15.265 - Maybe you can participate because you don't have any relationship with art. Think about how creative 01:00:15.265 --> 01:00:23.692 - you could be by looking at this problem and coming up with creative solutions like offering jobs or 01:00:23.692 --> 01:00:32.288 - offering workshops that give people skills that will help them get jobs. You can extend yourself that 01:00:32.288 --> 01:00:36.670 - way and be part of this project by offering up that 01:00:36.898 --> 01:00:45.816 - element or something like that that I can't even think about. But I think jobs are important when we 01:00:45.816 --> 01:00:54.823 - think of homelessness, at least I think so. Do we want to display any of the dirtier or scarier parts 01:00:54.823 --> 01:01:03.653 - of being moved? Are you going to ask me a question? Us. Let me watch you put the idea out. The part 01:01:03.653 --> 01:01:06.302 - of being homeless that sucks. 01:01:06.402 --> 01:01:13.513 - We don't want to be in denial here. That's what I was sort of thinking from the very beginning. There's 01:01:13.513 --> 01:01:20.487 - such a tension there. It's always going to be with us. If we try to make it too pretty, it's going to 01:01:20.487 --> 01:01:27.393 - be sort of hypocritical-ish. We're not going to make this a twinkie. Right. So to see the reality of 01:01:27.393 --> 01:01:28.350 - it versus the 01:01:32.130 --> 01:01:41.559 - I think there's a fine line where you don't want to have denial at the same time you don't want to scare 01:01:41.559 --> 01:01:50.540 - people. So there's a fine line of what we try to do here. And like having two projects, there could 01:01:50.540 --> 01:02:00.328 - be that element where the documentation or the stories become part of it, but maybe in a different showcase, 01:02:00.328 --> 01:02:01.406 - perhaps, or 01:02:01.922 --> 01:02:08.153 - different arm of this project? But I'm not sure. I mean, I'm not sure I get what you're saying. I mean, 01:02:08.153 --> 01:02:14.205 - it's definitely a sucky reality. But I'm not sure that goes with the more than homeless concept that 01:02:14.205 --> 01:02:20.376 - we started out with, because so many of us, what we're afraid of is the dirty reality. That's what I'm 01:02:20.376 --> 01:02:26.548 - saying, just a piece of it. Just make it a piece of it. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I mean, I think what 01:02:26.548 --> 01:02:30.622 - we're trying to get people to see is beyond that, to see the people 01:02:31.618 --> 01:02:39.390 - as people. Right. Maybe it's like this real simple analogy. The glass is half full or half empty. It's 01:02:39.390 --> 01:02:47.011 - like people are going to look at it the way they want to look at it. And I'd like to look at that as 01:02:47.011 --> 01:02:54.933 - half full and go from there. You think of abundance, you create abundance. You think of lack, you create 01:02:54.933 --> 01:03:00.894 - lack. I am totally in that mindset of understanding. I think of the symbolism. 01:03:02.498 --> 01:03:14.198 - Well, I mean, maybe there are metaphorical ways of showing the sucking reality, which is maybe the kitchen 01:03:14.198 --> 01:03:25.680 - table is empty. Maybe there's no food there. That's right. That's right. I mean, there's, yeah, I didn't 01:03:25.680 --> 01:03:28.414 - want to get too extreme. 01:03:34.626 --> 01:03:44.119 - I think it doesn't really matter to me whether you're showing the positive side of people or the negative 01:03:44.119 --> 01:03:53.165 - side of the experience. For me, what's most important is the turn. How does this image turn people's 01:03:53.165 --> 01:03:58.270 - hearts? And so however we do that is what I really want. 01:04:04.674 --> 01:04:32.510 - I think that Jesus' piece does that so well because it puts 01:04:32.994 --> 01:04:40.311 - negative and the positive, quote unquote, in the same place, literally at the same moment, at the same 01:04:40.311 --> 01:04:47.485 - time. And that's what creates the turn. It's like, oh, you're seeing two things that are, in theory, 01:04:47.485 --> 01:04:54.731 - not supposed to be together. And by putting them together, it elevates. It elevates. And I don't know 01:04:54.731 --> 01:05:00.414 - how you do that artistically. That's your challenge, Joe. We're going to start. 01:05:00.642 --> 01:05:09.487 - If you do something with a spiral, one part of it can be the scary section. It's almost like wizard 01:05:09.487 --> 01:05:18.685 - vows, you know? One of the things that the kids thought of, one of the ideas they had was having a tree 01:05:18.685 --> 01:05:28.149 - with words of prejudice in the tree and then chopping the tree down. It's just so interesting how creative 01:05:28.149 --> 01:05:29.918 - they get with that. 01:05:31.298 --> 01:05:40.049 - that idea of, so the negative is paired with the taking, you know, knocking men down. I think you're 01:05:40.049 --> 01:05:49.580 - going to have to have several pieces. This is going to be an honor. All throughout the city, Joe, everywhere. 01:05:49.580 --> 01:05:58.417 - You can see just by these ideals of how, when you look at the scope, there's five, six, eight, 10, 12 01:05:58.417 --> 01:06:00.670 - that you can easily pick. 01:06:05.410 --> 01:06:15.144 - And what I'm trying to do is take as many as I can and see how they can really fulfill a lot of perspectives, 01:06:15.144 --> 01:06:24.081 - a lot of needs, a lot of thoughts. Making it simplest. I think it's one of the hardest things for an 01:06:24.081 --> 01:06:30.718 - artist to do something and make it simple. Because it's complex, isn't it? 01:06:34.786 --> 01:06:43.822 - But I always want to go back to the thought that when I was at a talk, the curator from the Metropolitan 01:06:43.822 --> 01:06:52.427 - Museum of Art in New York was giving a talk. And some of the audience asked, what makes a good work 01:06:52.427 --> 01:07:01.377 - of art? And my ears just kind of went up and down. He said, well, first, I got to like it. Then second, 01:07:01.377 --> 01:07:03.614 - and maybe most important, 01:07:03.970 --> 01:07:12.488 - Because every time I see it or look at it, I discover something new. So going back to making it simple, 01:07:12.488 --> 01:07:20.925 - but then when you walk up to it and realize that there's more into it than you first saw. And then you 01:07:20.925 --> 01:07:29.689 - want to really look and look and look and look. And then maybe come back again and say, it's like reality. 01:07:29.689 --> 01:07:32.638 - It's like peeling the consciousness 01:07:32.994 --> 01:07:43.751 - I was just saying, oh gee, I thought I saw that, but I really didn't. And I think that to me is a good 01:07:43.751 --> 01:07:47.198 - work of art that offers up that. 01:08:00.226 --> 01:08:07.787 - Well, you can have components. You can have components. Because really, it's important to have a piece 01:08:07.787 --> 01:08:15.202 - there. Because I do think that localizes it, though, too. It does. When you have it just in front of 01:08:15.202 --> 01:08:21.662 - a building that is there for the homes, it sort of puts everything right in that space. 01:08:34.594 --> 01:08:44.193 - Isolated within this space around you. No, totally. I mean, when we first talked, I thought this is 01:08:44.193 --> 01:08:54.079 - such a, I mean, so important that it does have a home. A home. It's outside of. Well, no, it shows it, 01:08:54.079 --> 01:09:03.006 - because you want to invite people there and be welcoming there. But as you have said, Helen, 01:09:03.618 --> 01:09:11.717 - having some other component that can be used as an educational tool or have another presence in the 01:09:11.717 --> 01:09:19.896 - community. Now, it could be something that's moved. It could be something that's static moved again. 01:09:19.896 --> 01:09:28.076 - Or it could be just another point, reference in the community. Because when it's central, people who 01:09:28.076 --> 01:09:30.910 - are always over here never see it. 01:09:31.106 --> 01:09:39.973 - I mean, with the consciousness over there, so whenever we're there, we see something. It just becomes 01:09:39.973 --> 01:09:48.752 - a little more involved in the complexity of living in a big city. Let's see. Yeah, this might be the 01:09:48.752 --> 01:09:57.619 - beginning and not the end. One of the things we talked about is this kind of kicking off, beautifying 01:09:57.619 --> 01:09:59.966 - Shalom as a center, but it 01:10:00.162 --> 01:10:07.738 - But it also, we could think about this as, how do we create this art throughout the city? Somebody suggested 01:10:07.738 --> 01:10:15.035 - the idea of maybe talking to one of the local churches to see if they wanted to maybe place the homeless 01:10:15.035 --> 01:10:22.750 - Jesus statue and bring that to their community. And there might be additional things that we could do. Gotcha. 01:10:22.946 --> 01:10:30.221 - The sky's the limit, as long as we can fund it, right, Joe? Right, right. Here's an idea that I've used 01:10:30.221 --> 01:10:37.356 - with projects. Get it on top of the garage. I mean, it could be part of this could be a sheet magnet, 01:10:37.356 --> 01:10:44.352 - piece of sheet magnet, that the art's on it, and you can take it, and you can move that around. And 01:10:44.352 --> 01:10:51.487 - because it's an art piece that's part of something bigger or something of that sort, those components 01:10:51.487 --> 01:10:52.606 - could be placed 01:10:53.026 --> 01:11:01.127 - all around different areas all the time that you find just metal and just slap it on. And it becomes 01:11:01.127 --> 01:11:09.309 - there for a while. Maybe on the water towers or something, because that's metal. With the side of the 01:11:09.309 --> 01:11:17.410 - warehouse on the beeline trail. Yeah. I am here. I'm over here now. That surprises you when you find 01:11:17.410 --> 01:11:21.982 - it. So there's a lot of different ways of coming up with 01:11:22.242 --> 01:11:30.777 - real solutions that I don't, you know, it's like, we'll see. I think maybe the hardest part is giving 01:11:30.777 --> 01:11:39.229 - the review committee, that we have a good review committee, made up of people from the city and arts 01:11:39.229 --> 01:11:47.848 - administration and people from Shalom and people who are homeless. But they may have a hard time like, 01:11:47.848 --> 01:11:49.438 - wow, I don't know, 01:11:55.874 --> 01:12:04.994 - I mean, it's going to be, in some ways, I think the hardest thing is not having enough of something. 01:12:04.994 --> 01:12:14.023 - Because it's such a big thing. It's great. It's a great beginning. Another image that just occurred 01:12:14.023 --> 01:12:22.782 - to me is the backpack. That's one of the ways that people are identified who are on the streets. 01:12:23.074 --> 01:12:32.157 - who aren't necessarily staying in a shelter in particular, is that their home is their backpack. And 01:12:32.157 --> 01:12:41.239 - all their things, all their stuff that we talked about earlier, that's where it is. They carry it on 01:12:41.239 --> 01:12:50.142 - their backs. That's an interesting metaphor, too. It seems like maybe part of it, too, is the idea 01:12:52.866 --> 01:13:00.389 - to identify someone with homelessness, but I think that's precisely the scary thing about it, because 01:13:00.389 --> 01:13:07.985 - I think people have a there-but-for-the-grace-of-God-go-I mentality already. And so I don't think they 01:13:07.985 --> 01:13:15.581 - want to identify people experiencing homelessness. I think they want to see the differences. And maybe 01:13:15.581 --> 01:13:22.366 - we could even find a way to sort of exaggerate that. We might make it sort of more tangible 01:13:22.594 --> 01:13:29.829 - how close, you know, I don't know. Isn't that right? Hold on. No, no, but, you know, in saying that, 01:13:29.829 --> 01:13:37.207 - it's not like, well, one quick response. Some people say, get a job. That's something. Just get a job. 01:13:37.207 --> 01:13:44.370 - What's it worth? Lazy. I mean, have all these judgments, all these thoughts. Well, getting a job is 01:13:44.370 --> 01:13:49.886 - not that easy. You know, you have to have references, you have to, you know, 01:13:49.986 --> 01:13:55.926 - look good for a job. Especially if you don't know where to take a shower. Yeah. There's a lot of things 01:13:55.926 --> 01:14:01.694 - that make you know, parents just make a big part of hiring as well as your last job. And usually the 01:14:01.694 --> 01:14:07.576 - people having trouble getting jobs are the people who have incredible disability issues and trauma and 01:14:07.576 --> 01:14:13.287 - addiction issues. And so I would love that. I often say I would love that if laziness was the issue 01:14:13.287 --> 01:14:17.342 - with homelessness, I would love it because it would be so easy to fix. 01:14:17.538 --> 01:14:25.995 - You know, just a little extra motivation, a little drill sergeant behavior, and it'd be just fine. But 01:14:25.995 --> 01:14:34.206 - that doesn't work. Yeah. Actually, I think I do have this one. I wrote some more on that. I want to 01:14:34.206 --> 01:14:42.663 - thank you for bringing your son. My friend. Your friend. Bringing your friend. Thank you. It's pulling 01:14:42.663 --> 01:14:46.686 - up too many whiteboards. We have to keep racing. 01:14:46.914 --> 01:14:55.061 - Isn't it nice to be able to have a camera document? You can just email that to me and there you go. 01:14:55.061 --> 01:15:03.208 - The thing about materials, I was just looking at this, it was a scavenger hunt for materials, and I 01:15:03.208 --> 01:15:11.436 - was thinking about the fact that people are experiencing homelessness when they are not at Shalom or 01:15:11.436 --> 01:15:15.102 - at an overnight shelter, they're on the move 01:15:16.322 --> 01:15:25.848 - city and beyond. And I wonder if there's a way to invite them or involve them in scavenging for materials 01:15:25.848 --> 01:15:34.925 - that would be used. That was my idea. So literally, it doesn't have to be a scavenger, like the game 01:15:34.925 --> 01:15:43.912 - is scavenging. But just saying bring whatever you find or what you think would make a good material 01:15:43.912 --> 01:15:44.990 - to be used. 01:15:45.634 --> 01:16:03.173 - Some of these people that come to Shalom are already quarters. Maybe they donate some of their junk. 01:16:03.173 --> 01:16:10.814 - Some of them have their cars full of stuff. 01:16:11.842 --> 01:16:19.752 - And another image that comes to mind when Forest said the backpack, it made me think about tents too, 01:16:19.752 --> 01:16:28.127 - because a lot of these people, their home is a tent. Or strollers. Lots of people experiencing homelessness 01:16:28.127 --> 01:16:35.262 - with strollers. And bicycles. Before I was on staff, we did kind of a photo art piece where 01:16:35.746 --> 01:16:42.225 - where we gave cameras to different people who were homeless, and the theme was, what's home like for 01:16:42.225 --> 01:16:48.704 - me? And so they would take the cameras, and then they would take a photo of where their home was. So 01:16:48.704 --> 01:16:55.247 - we got all kinds of different perspectives, from tents to shelter beds to just all kinds of different 01:16:55.247 --> 01:17:01.982 - things. And I don't know, there's something interesting about that, too. But those are different things. 01:17:06.466 --> 01:17:15.648 - Well, all the places in the community that are hospice, right? The library, people's park, the courthouse 01:17:15.648 --> 01:17:24.657 - line, all the places where people go, right? Places that are welcoming. Yeah, but maybe institutionally 01:17:24.657 --> 01:17:29.854 - they're welcoming, but not necessarily the communities that 01:17:34.626 --> 01:17:42.410 - We're going all over the place, but that's the point. So I'm thinking now about the homeless Jesus bench 01:17:42.410 --> 01:17:50.193 - thing. And we were talking about sitting at the table. And I'm thinking about how the city is now moving 01:17:50.193 --> 01:17:57.606 - to remove the bench-like areas around the courthouse because they don't want people sleeping there. 01:17:57.606 --> 01:18:03.166 - So I don't know. Somehow a bench seems really symbolic of a lot of things. 01:18:06.882 --> 01:18:22.629 - Would there be an opportunity to land a speaker on it when it's done? Yeah. I don't know if there's, 01:18:22.629 --> 01:18:36.350 - the only thing we'd have to figure out is the city rules, because the city has an issue 01:18:38.338 --> 01:18:45.518 - I'm just checking on that to make sure there's no things that we can't, I'm not sure if we can. As it 01:18:45.518 --> 01:18:52.909 - occurs to me, I'm not sure if we can have any trouble other than falling. Yeah. Yeah, I'm just wondering 01:18:52.909 --> 01:19:00.159 - about if it is going to invite interactivity, whether you would be able to create paths. Because right 01:19:00.159 --> 01:19:07.198 - now, it's the fence. Yeah, we could certainly work with the fence and interact with it in the game. 01:19:07.874 --> 01:19:16.480 - But see, the beauty of something that you can't do, or what's hard to do, just spirals to be more creative. 01:19:16.480 --> 01:19:24.687 - Yeah. Sure. That's right. Like those trees, we have to have those trees that were required by the city 01:19:24.687 --> 01:19:32.895 - to be here. And so we'll have to figure out what else. So we have to work around those trees. So those 01:19:32.895 --> 01:19:37.118 - trees have to stay? They have to stay. OK, let's go. 01:19:38.754 --> 01:19:47.454 - You just have to make the sculpture bigger than the trees. We can make another tree. Make it a tree for him. 01:20:11.010 --> 01:20:18.977 - I think of a garbage bag to specifically cans and things like that. We have, there's a couple men that 01:20:18.977 --> 01:20:27.098 - I live on in Sixth Street, and we'll kind of on Sixth Street, Sixth Street Jackson, but we have a couple 01:20:27.098 --> 01:20:34.833 - of men that come and collect cans, and I just sit mine out for them, and that kind of represents it 01:20:34.833 --> 01:20:35.838 - in some way. 01:20:36.034 --> 01:20:43.147 - a lot of people around the city or even garbage bags. Yeah, with the garbage bags, they're either trying 01:20:43.147 --> 01:20:49.922 - to find a handful of street food or something like that. It's a gigantic tableau that's going to go 01:20:49.922 --> 01:20:56.696 - to the whole block of wall. There could be benches and trees and tables. If we have anything in the 01:20:56.696 --> 01:21:03.742 - sculpture that can be scrapped, it might be. We haven't even started talking about cardboard signs yet. 01:21:05.026 --> 01:21:19.484 - That could be a photography thing. Yeah, what if they were cardboard signs that said things that were 01:21:19.484 --> 01:21:28.414 - different from standard cardboard signs? Like, offer me a job? 01:21:35.938 --> 01:21:50.614 - Yeah. That's cool. What was that double message? You're expecting, you need a job, but I'm offering 01:21:50.614 --> 01:22:02.942 - you a job. You would never expect somebody else to do that, especially the way they 01:22:04.706 --> 01:22:13.925 - If you would just have middle-class, non-homeless people holding cardboard signs and say those things. 01:22:13.925 --> 01:22:22.876 - Well, there's actually a whole fundraising concept around that very idea where people say, I have a 01:22:22.876 --> 01:22:32.006 - home and I'm raising money for people who don't. And things like that. And they have cardboard signs. 01:22:32.006 --> 01:22:33.886 - Middle-class people. 01:22:34.274 --> 01:22:43.504 - I actually have a dream of us doing that in the city on Black Friday after Thanksgiving. I wish you'd 01:22:43.504 --> 01:22:52.735 - do that. Yeah. It'd be an interesting way of, we're using Kickstart as a way of funding this project. 01:22:52.735 --> 01:23:01.694 - Maybe it might be the majority of the funds for this project. But it would be interesting just to, 01:23:01.954 --> 01:23:08.933 - offer up people a sign saying, donate to the homelessness art project. And just see what it takes to 01:23:08.933 --> 01:23:16.258 - hold that sign up there for a couple of hours and see what happens. I mean, whenever you're on the street 01:23:16.258 --> 01:23:23.376 - collecting money or asking people for something, it is so different. And even when I do these projects 01:23:23.376 --> 01:23:30.493 - on the street, how many people don't even know? I have a 34-foot guitar. I can tell you that there are 01:23:30.493 --> 01:23:31.806 - people who walk by 01:23:31.938 --> 01:23:38.762 - Don't even look. Don't even see it. It's like, I'm not even there. It's like. They're afraid. 01:23:38.762 --> 01:23:46.384 - I don't know, because it's kind of like, that's not part of my life. They're on their little, especially 01:23:46.384 --> 01:23:53.861 - now with the eye films and stuff, they're just walking by and the world's passing by. They're on their 01:23:53.861 --> 01:24:00.830 - eye film. You know, you can do fundraising for this project. People can go. It's not like that. 01:24:01.314 --> 01:24:09.871 - people experiencing homelessness at their regular spots, you know, on their hood and stuff, and sit 01:24:09.871 --> 01:24:18.514 - with them with signs that say, you know, raising money for this art project. Sit beside them. That's 01:24:18.514 --> 01:24:27.413 - just a partial. Unfortunately, it made it sound a little like there was project money. I can't imagine. 01:24:27.413 --> 01:24:30.494 - I know you know that. Right, right. 01:24:31.394 --> 01:24:58.686 - It's reachable. I mean, that's why I have to think in terms of when I think about ideas. 01:24:59.138 --> 01:25:08.635 - That's the back of my head. I don't like to put it in front. But whenever you do anything, it's so important 01:25:08.635 --> 01:25:17.523 - with a good idea. Some people don't realize it. With a good idea, it's not really good unless you can 01:25:17.523 --> 01:25:26.846 - do it. So having a good idea, but if that's too expensive or it's not going to work. So good working idea. 01:25:28.610 --> 01:25:36.127 - The one thing I did see, I want to say it was New York, but I can't remember. I saw it on, I can't remember 01:25:36.127 --> 01:25:43.784 - the site either, it's been a few years ago, but there was like a photography project and they took cardboard, 01:25:43.784 --> 01:25:50.814 - they actually had homeless that held cardboard signs and it said normal things that they used to do. 01:25:51.010 --> 01:25:58.288 - to create a connection. You made a really good point. You said sometimes people, they don't want to 01:25:58.288 --> 01:26:05.712 - associate. They want that difference. And it's like, you have to bring them back. One of them was, he 01:26:05.712 --> 01:26:13.135 - scored so many touchdowns for his high school. It's like, how do you relate to that? Another one was, 01:26:13.135 --> 01:26:17.502 - I cried at my child's birth, just like you did, type thing. 01:26:17.698 --> 01:26:25.330 - They also had another project that tied into that, which was veterans. And it was a little bit more 01:26:25.330 --> 01:26:33.190 - serious than that. But they were saying things that changed their lives. But I really liked that tying 01:26:33.190 --> 01:26:41.356 - in something to connect you. Yeah. I had one experience where there was some atrocity happening somewhere. 01:26:41.356 --> 01:26:47.614 - And you saw this body. And all you saw were the shoes. And the person had Levi's. 01:26:47.874 --> 01:26:55.258 - with sneakers. And I looked at that. I said, that could be me. I mean, that could be anybody. But you 01:26:55.258 --> 01:27:02.498 - have that association with kind of a negative thing. But you do. You need that buy-in about, I have 01:27:02.498 --> 01:27:07.710 - a relationship with that. Right. Negative or positive is expected. Yes. 01:27:20.962 --> 01:27:28.940 - No. No, it's just lots and lots of words. You know, the way I work, as you're thinking of more ideas, 01:27:28.940 --> 01:27:36.761 - what I like to do is I'll just start sliding things. I'll just put them in little groups, like this 01:27:36.761 --> 01:27:44.738 - little group goes together. Well, this little group goes together. Or maybe I take something off that 01:27:44.738 --> 01:27:50.526 - group. It just becomes a way of, then another day goes by, and I'll look. 01:27:51.170 --> 01:28:08.620 - Wait a minute, I should add that one over here. It becomes kind of a process of moving things. And yeah, 01:28:08.620 --> 01:28:19.422 - it's fun. Yeah. You're great at that, Joe. Well, any more ideas? 01:28:21.026 --> 01:28:29.947 - on the same thing, it's kind of closing. And then we run them out. So as I understand, Shalom's going 01:28:29.947 --> 01:28:38.868 - to have another little brainstorming session with the residents there, or clients, or people. Guests. 01:28:38.868 --> 01:28:47.964 - All the works. Yeah, I mean, clients at Stone Belt Guests at Shalom. When is that? We haven't scheduled 01:28:47.964 --> 01:28:50.238 - it yet. Soon. Soon. Yeah. 01:28:50.978 --> 01:28:58.859 - And then I'll be collecting the other information from you. And then we'll compile it and you'll have 01:28:58.859 --> 01:29:06.895 - a list of all of what I have. I'd like to get contact information so maybe we can pass a piece of paper 01:29:06.895 --> 01:29:14.622 - around so I can get in touch with you about the next steps. Some of these may not, like we're doing 01:29:14.622 --> 01:29:17.790 - the More Than Homeless project, which is 01:29:18.466 --> 01:29:25.439 - is bigger than just this particular art project. So for example, that cardboard sign thing might become 01:29:25.439 --> 01:29:32.278 - a photographic project that we want to engage in. And so those are different. So I'm trying to create 01:29:32.278 --> 01:29:39.117 - a database of people interested in the home or the homeless kind of work. So if you'd like to be part 01:29:39.117 --> 01:29:41.598 - of that, as well as the art project, 01:29:53.666 --> 01:29:58.914 - Thanks, everybody. We appreciate you being here. Thank you for coming. And if you'd like to be on that 01:29:58.914 --> 01:30:03.806 - mailing list, just come on up and fill out your info right here and enjoy the rest of your day.