WEBVTT 00:00:44.386 --> 00:00:53.725 - of John Goodhart, Maynard Pomato, and Michael Walley, an explosive ordnance demolition team of the United 00:00:53.725 --> 00:01:02.712 - States Navy, commanded by Chief Warrant Officer Gunnar Krebs, should blow up one ton of red art clay. 00:01:02.712 --> 00:01:12.140 - Location, ordnance demolition range, Crane Naval Ammunition Depot, Martin County, Indiana. Date, detonated 00:01:12.140 --> 00:01:13.726 - on February 17th, 00:01:14.146 --> 00:01:15.454 - 1977. 00:03:00.354 --> 00:03:08.547 - The question is, has been asked, has been posed, why did we do this? Why do we blow up a ton of red 00:03:08.547 --> 00:03:16.494 - art clay? Who wants to answer that question? I thought it was fun. Fun? Lots of fun. It was fun. 00:03:16.494 --> 00:03:24.851 - I liked it. It was a lot of fun to do. The closest thing that I guess you could say would be it might 00:03:24.851 --> 00:03:28.702 - be a performance of some sort. Very temporary. 00:03:28.930 --> 00:03:36.163 - The quality that I always like is the aspect of having these people working with you and for you that 00:03:36.163 --> 00:03:43.396 - just have nothing normally to do with art. And even though they don't understand why the hell they're 00:03:43.396 --> 00:03:50.699 - doing it, they're having a good time and are getting involved in something that's outside their normal 00:03:50.699 --> 00:03:54.174 - life experience. For me, I guess a lot of people 00:03:54.530 --> 00:04:01.556 - The visual part of it was really kind of exciting. I mean, it had a lot of things in addition to the 00:04:01.556 --> 00:04:08.582 - visual. It had sound, it had feeling, feeling like tremors, you know, I mean, actual physical tremor 00:04:08.582 --> 00:04:15.539 - of the ground. Seeing this gigantic cloud that, God, how tall was it? 100 feet or so, I don't know. 00:04:15.539 --> 00:04:22.704 - 100 feet in the air, like a red cloud is visually, to me, was very exciting, you know, especially when 00:04:22.704 --> 00:04:23.678 - you deal with 00:04:24.418 --> 00:04:29.706 - with clay as a material in a wet state all the time. And to see a ton of it up in the air, you know... 00:04:29.706 --> 00:04:34.942 - It didn't look like a ton of clay. Yeah, right. Yeah, it didn't. It didn't look like a ton at all. It 00:04:34.942 --> 00:04:40.384 - had nothing like it was... You know, when you think of a ton of clay, you think of weight, mass, density, 00:04:40.384 --> 00:04:45.672 - bag. You know, if you ever unloaded it, whichever button it has, if you ever unloaded a truck of clay, 00:04:45.672 --> 00:04:51.422 - you know what it's like. And all of a sudden, to see it up in the... almost floating in the sky is pretty neat. 00:04:51.554 --> 00:04:59.696 - It's visually a very exciting thing, I think. The other thing I thought that was kind of nice about 00:04:59.696 --> 00:05:07.838 - it was the, I guess, the real temporary quality of it. Both the visual thing and then the temporary 00:05:07.838 --> 00:05:15.980 - quality of it. The fact that also, for me anyway, it was temporary and it wasn't an object as such. 00:05:15.980 --> 00:05:20.702 - It wasn't an object that you labor over. It wasn't a pot. 00:05:21.058 --> 00:05:27.259 - piece of sculpture that you spent weeks and weeks glazing and firing and all that kind of stuff. I think 00:05:27.259 --> 00:05:33.401 - it would have been fun if we could have made it. It would have been like a Sunday afternoon picnic with 00:05:33.401 --> 00:05:39.425 - the explosion of the main event. All go out there and have a little picnic and have a big blow up and 00:05:39.425 --> 00:05:45.390 - stand around and cheer. But it would have been nice if we could have had a whole group of people out 00:05:45.390 --> 00:05:49.406 - there. Well, this one was too fast. Yeah, well like your first one. 00:05:49.858 --> 00:05:55.716 - It seemed like you were a part of it because you went out and helped me stack things up. This one, you 00:05:55.716 --> 00:06:01.574 - almost felt a little bit divorced from it. Although that really didn't take anything away from it, the 00:06:01.574 --> 00:06:07.261 - finished piece for me. But like you say, you missed a little bit of the fun. It was a little bit of 00:06:07.261 --> 00:06:13.062 - the experience. We built up the excitement the first time. The dramatic pause and whatnot. It took me 00:06:13.062 --> 00:06:16.190 - by surprise this time because when you went out there, 00:06:16.418 --> 00:06:23.267 - You know it was already stacked up. Look at it, that's that zip pile out there. That last time he was 00:06:23.267 --> 00:06:30.318 - already right out there with him. Bounced through the trail, helped stack the play up. Yeah, it's still, 00:06:30.318 --> 00:06:37.167 - yeah. There was a big difference between this one and the previous one. This one I think was visually 00:06:37.167 --> 00:06:42.942 - nicer. Bigger is better maybe. I don't know. In this case maybe it was. I'm not sure. 00:06:43.458 --> 00:06:49.466 - But it still was pretty exciting in terms of that aspect of it. Also along with the idea of having an 00:06:49.466 --> 00:06:55.591 - art form and an art event that goes outside the gallery and outside the artist's world. I like the idea 00:06:55.591 --> 00:07:01.657 - of having the tape in the public library and having it available to anybody that's crazy enough to sit 00:07:01.657 --> 00:07:07.783 - down and look at it for a period of time. It's just available to anybody that wants it at any time now. 00:07:07.783 --> 00:07:12.318 - I think that's another probably really important part about the piece too is 00:07:12.642 --> 00:07:19.649 - is number one that, well, it's not an object, but yet in a sense it is, and the fact that it is documented, 00:07:19.649 --> 00:07:26.266 - and it's there for anyone who wants to see it. Like you say, anybody who's crazy enough to go out and 00:07:26.266 --> 00:07:32.818 - do it. Yeah, the real exciting thing is the spontaneity of the explosion, the bomb, very female sort 00:07:32.818 --> 00:07:39.176 - of thing, but in a way here it is recorded permanently for anybody that wants to look back on it. 00:07:39.176 --> 00:07:40.798 - I think, you know, also, 00:07:40.962 --> 00:07:48.704 - Another important aspect of it, I guess, which we've touched on, was getting people outside of the art 00:07:48.704 --> 00:07:56.446 - community involved in it. I think I kind of got off and really enjoyed those guys a lot. Meeting them, 00:07:56.446 --> 00:08:04.488 - getting their interpretation of what was going on, their ideas. I think that what happens is, I personally 00:08:04.488 --> 00:08:09.374 - think those guys are crazy. Because here's a group of people who 00:08:09.506 --> 00:08:17.265 - deal with explosives for their career or job. They get hazardous duty pay. They deactivate or defuse 00:08:17.265 --> 00:08:24.948 - bombs, et cetera. And to me, that's suspect. I can't imagine anybody wanting to do that. And on the 00:08:24.948 --> 00:08:32.630 - other hand, I'm sure they think that here's a bunch of people that come out here with a ton of clay 00:08:32.630 --> 00:08:37.470 - and blow it up and get off on that. So it's kind of a mutually 00:08:37.570 --> 00:08:45.221 - We think each other's crazy, but yet I think we both learn to like each other, respect each other for 00:08:45.221 --> 00:08:52.797 - what we do. Yeah, they were involved with art and we got involved with it. I thought a little of the 00:08:52.797 --> 00:09:00.298 - side of humor or irony was the idea of these guys getting a hazard bonus pay for helping us make an 00:09:00.298 --> 00:09:04.798 - artwork. We might be so lucky. I think that's a nice touch. 00:09:07.362 --> 00:09:16.830 - Well, what else can we talk about, Bill? I think the documentation, like the video and the photographs, 00:09:16.830 --> 00:09:25.933 - are actually pieces of art, too. They're evidence of what happened, but they also can be a piece in 00:09:25.933 --> 00:09:35.127 - itself, an artwork in itself. So this thing could, a piece like this, while it's very temporary, has 00:09:35.127 --> 00:09:36.766 - residual effects. 00:09:37.154 --> 00:09:45.087 - Other pieces spring off of it. Like it gives birth to other pieces of art in a way. And perhaps even 00:09:45.087 --> 00:09:53.020 - other ideas. Who knows what might come of that. Like this will lead into something else perhaps. Any 00:09:53.020 --> 00:10:01.031 - other plan? Oh, no. Forge on. Forge on. Forge ahead, right. I don't know what to... I think something 00:10:01.031 --> 00:10:05.822 - else that's... One other thing that's kind of nice is the... 00:10:05.954 --> 00:10:11.669 - is the fact that, for me anyway, this is a collaborative piece. I could start off sitting around one 00:10:11.669 --> 00:10:17.328 - day, I think, over in the clay room. I don't remember exactly how, but just the idea of it. I think 00:10:17.328 --> 00:10:23.157 - my beer was involved. Yeah, maybe sit around having a few beers, and then the sign of something really 00:10:23.157 --> 00:10:29.155 - outrageous that you could do with this clay, and saying, well, let's blow it up. And then actually trying 00:10:29.155 --> 00:10:35.550 - to go through all the hassles of implementing that, like writing the companies, getting the Navy involved in it, 00:10:35.746 --> 00:10:43.716 - I think that points up another fairly important issue is the idea that an artwork of whatever sort it 00:10:43.716 --> 00:10:51.530 - is doesn't have to be incredibly serious. I think it is probably a good thing to stimulate the idea 00:10:51.530 --> 00:10:59.656 - that an artwork can be jovial and humorous, spontaneous, and just have to ultimately just feel serious. 00:10:59.656 --> 00:11:05.438 - I think you see that too, like in ceramics anyway, a lot of object making 00:11:05.570 --> 00:11:13.375 - It's very whimsical, very humorous, very personal. It's like people really have a sense of humor and 00:11:13.375 --> 00:11:21.103 - they exploit that in their work. I think we're all serious about it, but we had fun doing it. I had 00:11:21.103 --> 00:11:28.985 - a good time doing the thing. It's like there's nothing precious about it. Right. It's like a no man's 00:11:28.985 --> 00:11:33.854 - land down there. How big of an area is it? It's a test ground. 00:11:34.402 --> 00:11:43.814 - Oh, it's huge, yeah. It looks like a DMZ, you know, like all the branches are off the trees. Everything's 00:11:43.814 --> 00:11:52.694 - defoliated. Everything's defoliated. Yeah, it's just like a no man's land. There are bomb fragments 00:11:52.694 --> 00:11:58.110 - lying around, you know, stuff like that. It's a crazy place. 00:12:06.146 --> 00:12:28.862 - Yeah, I know it is. 00:12:39.074 --> 00:13:07.646 - I'm shaking like a leaf. It's so cold out here. That's it, boys. You got six minutes. 00:13:16.674 --> 00:13:36.702 - We had two people killed in this bunker a couple years ago. Didn't have a glass in front of the fort, 00:13:36.702 --> 00:13:45.342 - so actually we can't even lie to you today. 00:13:46.786 --> 00:14:14.814 - Yeah, really, it's not quite like checking a firetruck or anything. 00:14:15.650 --> 00:14:30.590 - Six minutes. Coming up. 00:14:47.170 --> 00:15:17.022 - 15 seconds to go. God damn. That's really nice. 00:15:19.970 --> 00:15:46.238 - that was red heart the size of that devil all right that's a nice one 00:15:50.018 --> 00:15:59.984 - John, is this cathartic? It's getting off, man. Don't bother me. It's got a knife. It is. It is. 00:15:59.984 --> 00:16:10.773 - It is nice. Nice piece. You know what? My hands are cold. I can't believe the sound of that thing. What? 00:16:10.773 --> 00:16:17.246 - We were in that bunker, too. What would that be like out here? 00:16:19.490 --> 00:16:26.142 - Did you see the glass jump? I heard it. 00:16:56.418 --> 00:17:04.194 - No, there's nothing. You might find a little hole in the ground and that's about it. Last time... You 00:17:04.194 --> 00:17:12.122 - have a souvenir paper bag. You might find a few little shards. Yeah, there were a few little fragments. 00:17:12.122 --> 00:17:19.897 - Not much. It's a lot breezier today than it was last time, isn't it? The last one just hung out there 00:17:19.897 --> 00:17:22.718 - a long time. It's also blown across. 00:17:22.882 --> 00:17:31.189 - Yeah, it was about 48 bags, I think it was. Whatever. Pink clay, red clay, whatever you want to call 00:17:31.189 --> 00:17:39.990 - it. Harder clay. About 190 pounds. Any particular way that you did it? No. Standard, more or less standard 00:17:39.990 --> 00:17:48.626 - procedure out here. It's a non-electric type shooting. With a non-electric blasting cap and safety fuse. 00:17:48.626 --> 00:17:52.574 - Detonating cord wrapped around the main charge. 00:17:54.434 --> 00:18:01.564 - Do you have much control over how the shape of the explosion or the cloud or? Yep. The way we set the 00:18:01.564 --> 00:18:08.554 - thing up is we pyramid the clay so you would get the mushroom type things back instead of spreading 00:18:08.554 --> 00:18:15.613 - them. When we started the shot there was no control on that. We started them as far as wind is going 00:18:15.613 --> 00:18:22.673 - to go other than getting time on the site to get it before we end. Why did you do it? Why did you do 00:18:22.673 --> 00:18:23.582 - it? For him. 00:18:23.842 --> 00:18:44.958 - That's a hell of a way to make a living, you know it? 00:18:45.378 --> 00:19:01.234 - I don't understand. I don't understand. Why you guys do that? Well, we don't only do surface. We're 00:19:01.234 --> 00:19:10.430 - all called about Navy dollars too. Jump out of airplanes. 00:19:12.386 --> 00:19:27.878 - I'll hold my comments. I don't understand what you're blowing the play for. When I went to the arts 00:19:27.878 --> 00:19:35.934 - department, they gave us a pencil and some crayons. 00:19:36.258 --> 00:19:59.017 - The only thing that remains constant is the service. That doesn't change. That's about four more months 00:19:59.017 --> 00:20:04.926 - it can change all at once. 00:20:07.714 --> 00:20:35.102 - Got one on the way 00:20:36.930 --> 00:20:43.898 - Yeah, I think so. I appreciate it. Did it come out like you wanted it to? Oh, yeah. I don't know, but 00:20:43.898 --> 00:20:50.866 - it's beautiful. What if there was a mess up on the nine, I'll say it. It sure was fun, man. Oh, we'll 00:20:50.866 --> 00:20:57.766 - put it that way. Beautiful. Beautiful. Yes, sir. Well, that could have worked out better. Yeah, that 00:20:57.766 --> 00:21:04.734 - would have been way better. We'll see you all later. Thank you. You going to the cafeteria? Yes, sir. 00:21:05.506 --> 00:21:07.198 - Take it easy.