Okay, good evening, everybody, and welcome to the last night of the 2026 budget work sessions. Today
is Thursday, September 11th, 2025, and I apologize for my tardiness. Here in the NETU Hill Room, we
have counselors to my right, David Henry, Peter Iverson, Kate Wilt, and Liz Vital. We do not have counselors
Decker or Hawk,
virtually or in person. So we will continue to go ahead with our agenda or with our business of the
night. So option or item number two is the adoption of tonight's agenda. Is anybody wishing to make
any type of amendments to tonight's agenda? And seeing no heads or head shaking as a no and because
there is a quorum and nobody is online. We can do a voice vote. Yay. Okay, so all those in favor of
approving tonight's agenda as presented signify by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign.
All right, motion carries. Okay, so this is going to be the last time that I get to say this for the
2026 budget work sessions. So again,
this is not final and councils just like the other previous five nights we've listened to the Monroe
County Department bring forth their 2026 agendas or agendas their budgets and present to them again
as a final reminder for this evening every department that will be coming forth
to the council will have a timer and so you have a time frame and those will be on the television screens
that are around the NatU Hill Room and once your time is up you will be reminded that your time is up.
And then again as we've been doing previously I just asked council members to stick to budget items
related questions. Again this is not final
However, the public hearing is scheduled for Tuesday, September 30th, starting at 5 p.m. And the budget
final adoption meeting will be on Tuesday, October 14th at 5 o'clock as well. All right, so.
As we have also been doing, we've been looking to the auditor's office to give an update on some of
the things that we've been doing here. And so again, we have from the auditor's office, Ms. Carly Woodruff.
And so I'm gonna give her the floor before we start tonight's meeting. Welcome. Good evening, council.
I'm gonna go ahead and share my screen with you.
shows that same document we showed last night. It has a simple calculation for the current deficit.
This is across all funds that are in budget projection and this information is pulled from Gateway.
As of right now across all funds we have roughly 8.151 million in deficit. If we do a deep dive into
our levy funds you can see that the updated deficit amount is
$11,195,723. These are reflective of the changes from last night's meeting. We've also gone ahead and
added the cheat sheet information to this document and it shows you what the minimum fund balances are
per our ordinance as well as the 2025 levy so you can compare.
Okay, sorry, I'm trying to plug in my computer here. Does anybody have any questions for Ms. Woodruff?
No? Okay, seeing none. Did you have anything else to add to this? Unless you guys have any questions,
I think we'll leave it there. Okay, doesn't seem like we do. Look at us.
all right and so we are going to go ahead with tonight's first um budget presentation which is from
the waste reduction district which is item number five council i move to open for discussion and review fund
solid waste management operating with a category requests of personnel at $1,729,850, supplies at $213,600,
services at $1,236,170, and capital at $75,000 for a total budget of $3,254,620.
all right we got a motion and a second and we have mr tom mclaskin and teresa goings welcome thank you
as always we do appreciate the council's time and consideration for our budget every year i do want
to take a moment for those that don't know that teresa goings
She's not new to us anymore, but she's our our controller been with us not quite a year. She barely
missed getting to be here last year in front of you all, but we're happy to have her with us. She helped
me answer any questions that you may have. As I usually do in the interest of time to ensure we have
adequate time for Council questions.
We'll just highlight some of the significant budget items that have changed or are new from the previous
year. So start with the personnel services category. This year, we do have proposed in the budget a
3% cost of living increase for all our employees.
We alternate between a percent and a flat increase. 2026 would be a flat increase years for us. So we
take that 3% of the median district wage. And I believe in your spreadsheet shows how that broke down
between salaried and hourly employees. And I do believe that is in line with what the county is considering
doing for its employees for 2026.
the other personnel services line I did want to highlight is our health insurance line. That's a line
that for a multitude of reasons has the budgets kind of spiraled out of control and then it has been
over budget for a few years based on what our premium costs actually are. So we're looking to start
to rein that in and did propose a significant decrease.
I'm comfortable that based on what we're hearing with regard to health insurance premiums and what we're
getting from our benefit administrator that we'll still have sufficient funding in that line for health
insurance benefits for employees in 2026. Moving on to the supplies category, there's a number of small, I guess,
we've had a lot of. Decreases in there and some increases. A lot of that is, you know, done in an effort.
Obviously we're all you know, impacted by Senate Bill one and. You know the revenue impacts that's going
to have moving forward. So you know, we worked with staff to try to really.
And so you'll see a number of small decreases throughout that category. And the services and charges
category, I do want to highlight line 3185. This is a new budget line for us. It's a community grant
program that we're proposing. Our board requested that and, excuse me,
We were able to find $20,000 in the budget next year that we thought we could make available for a community
grant. That is something that the statute does empower districts to make community grants to both public
and private sector entities, provided that the funds go toward things that are in line with the mission
of the district.
work to develop that grant program in short order so that we can get that out and get those funds distributed
early next year so that the recipients have time to spend that money before the end of the year. I did
also want to note we did have a $5,000 increase in our advertising line and that is specific to you
might recall or know that we do
Every year we do something in observance of Earth Day and what we've done the past couple years and
anticipate doing next year is selling compost bins and rain barrels or making those available through
a vendor. It's not a revenue source for us, but we did a substantial advertising campaign on that this
year and it doubled our
sales totals from the previous times that we've done that so we thought that was really successful and
wanted to continue that that next year. There are also some changes in line 3942 and 3943 which has
to do with our hauling contracts for the materials that we collected our recycling centers. We did enter
into a new contract arrangement with a new vendor
In June of this year, runky waste and recycling. We've also made some operational changes that we think
are going to significantly reduce the number of halls that we need to make from our facilities.
So substantial decrease in those two lines. And then lastly, in the capitals category, we might recall
we had $120,000 budgeted
to the box trucks we use for our green business network recycling routes for this year. Next year, we
have a $50,000 appropriation proposed to get a new administration and outreach vehicle. The current
vehicle being used for those purposes is about 20 years old. It's still plugging away and doing its
job, but it is something that we need to look at getting replaced.
also have budgeted $15,000 to purchase a dump trailer. Every year, at least once, if not twice a year,
we have to redo gravel at our recycling centers outside the city of Bloomington and thought we could
save a significant amount of money if we were able to deliver that material to the sites ourselves rather
than paying a trunky company to do that.
the operating fund. That's what I wanted to highlight. Happy to answer any questions. Thank you very
much for that. And I'm going to look over here to my right to see if anybody has any questions. Council
Iverson. Thank you both for being here. Your budgets look like the ones we've been looking at for the
past five nights reductions in almost every line. This is a tough time and
We know what you're going through. My question to you is you'd previously come before us to talk about
some municipal composting initiatives that you were pursuing. Is that in this budget or in another budget?
No, we do still have in our other profession. No, it's in our consultant line. We do still have, well,
The line is total is $27,000, but about $20,000 of that is earmarked for composting initiatives moving
into next year. And are those still located predominantly in.
the multi-dweller unit. The current program is focused on apartment complexes, multi-dwelling complexes,
facilities. We did this year implement what we're called the Organic Waste Task Force that's also looking
at some neighborhood-centric composting programs that we might try to expand on in 2026. That's exciting,
great. I'm glad that that survived the cuts, at least this year.
All right, anybody else on this side have any questions? And looking over here to my left, Councilor
Woods. I don't have any questions. I just wanted to endorse this budget in terms of I'm the liaison
and I sit on the board and the board has reviewed all of the figures as presented and fully supports
this budget.
feedback thank you anybody else have any questions on this line idea or this budget item all right and
we are still not joined by anybody virtually we can go ahead and do a roll call vote so all those in
favor of moving this budget item moving forward signify by saying aye aye all those opposed same sign all right
Motion carries now next up is item B. Council I move to open for discussion or view fund 8283 solid
waste district debt service with a category requests of personnel and supply lines each at zero dollars
services line at three hundred eight thousand four hundred forty five dollars and the capital line at
zero dollars for a total budget of three hundred eight thousand four hundred and forty five dollars. Second.
All right, what would you like to add to this? Well, this one got interesting for us this year. And
so that everybody's aware, the final payment of our debt service is due in February of 2027. And in
our workshop with DLJF this year, they explained that
The state views the tax disbursements as covering the two payments for that year. So we make a payment
in February and a payment in September. And we get a disbursement in June and December. So the December
disbursement that we get this year is going to leave us with a significant end of year back. That impacts
the tax levy that they're willing to assess for 2026.
And in 2027, they will look for the December 2027 tax disbursement to balance that fund, even though
we'll make our final payment in February.
So you do see in there if you see the revenues we do have a significant shortfall in that budget. Now
thankfully we have adequate cash reserves that the operating fund will make loans to that fund to make
sure that all the payments are covered and we don't default and we'll probably have a similar scenario
as we go into 2027 with the caveat that
Uh, the tax levy for 2027 should be set so that the December disbursement would balance the fund. Okay.
Thank you. Um, council members looking to my left here and seeing if anybody has any questions. Okay.
Councilor Iverson. I'm really glad that we're having these conversations now instead of facing a potential
actions that could potentially lead to a default at the very end of this. And this has been going on
for a long time. We're not going to default with three payments to go. No. No. So thank you for bringing
this to us. All right. And seeing no more questions on this item. Again, all those in favor of moving
forward with this particular item's budget line here, signify by saying aye.
All those opposed same sign. All right, motion carries. Next up is item C. Council I move to open for
discussion and review fund 1215 solid waste district non reverting capital with a category request of
$0 in each of the four categories personnel supplies services and capital for a total budget of $0.
Okay, and what would you like to add to this? This is something that we do every year. We have the cumulative
capital fund. It has an insignificant balance of about $42,000 to $43,000 in it, but DLGF advised some
years ago that it would be in our best interest to go ahead and adopt a zero-sum budget. So the budget's
on file and that way if something were to happen and we needed to appropriate money out of that fund,
it would save some time and steps having the budget on file.
Okay. All right. I'm looking over here to my right, seeing none. No. Got us stumped. All right. So all
those in favor of moving forward with this item, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. All those opposed,
same sign. All right. Motion carries. And that's it. That was easy. Thank you. Thank you.
All right, next up is item number six, which is from the Monroe Fire Protection District. Council, I
move to open for discussion and review fund 8603, Special Fire General, with a category request of personnel
at $15,986,485, supplies at $513,750, services at $1 million,
one hundred ninety seven thousand nine hundred twenty dollars capital at zero for a total budget of
seventeen million six hundred ninety eight thousand one hundred and fifty five dollars second all right
we got a motion and a second and we have chief dustin diller and lori robinson here welcome hello good
evening thank you for having us hold that a little closer okay
that work all right thank you everyone appreciate the opportunity to come here if you know a few times
once a few times a year and talk to you about some of the things that we're doing down there at the
fire district first thing I wanted to open up with is the last few budget sessions we have talked about
building a fire station in Washington Township as you all know it is now open we are ecstatic
Thank you for attending that open house that we held and I am so glad that that project is behind us.
With that said, the Fire District serves roughly 50,000 of Monroe County citizens, about 20,000 of the
housing units, and 317 square miles which is about 77% of the geographical area in Monroe County. So
we've got a diverse jurisdiction and
love what we do. End of the budget on the general fund. First change is we have an actual five percent
cost of living adjustment and the reason for that is that it's part two of two to try to catch up and
mirror those salaries with the city of Bloomington.
last year at budget time we actually were having one of our budget work sessions at the fire district
the bloomington fire department negotiated a new contract with their firefighters in which they saw
a 38 increase in salary the timing was difficult we did everything that we could to close the gap and
we're trying to close that gap further this year so the five percent
does a portion of that. Another portion of that is an increase in the officer pay. The way the fire
district pays its officers is they all receive the first class firefighter salary and then on top of
that they receive a stipend for their rank. Bloomington on the contrary has a salary set for each of
those positions. So all we've done is take our stipend, take our base pay,
keep that as close as we can. And we know by doing the math and our firefighters discussing and sharing
with one another that if we're in the $5,000 mark, the take home pay for a district firefighter is that
of a city of Bloomington firefighter. So we're happy with where these salaries land. And we'd like to
get through this second year of those increases so that we can get back to the norm, if you will. One
difference with the fire budget this time around,
We have a few fewer fire chiefs. This budget presents a permanent elimination of one of the assistant
chief positions and a temporary reduction in the battalion chief positions due to vacancies in our current
organizational structure. We don't have anyone currently ready to fill those positions. There's no reason
to tax our taxpayers and hold that cash. We want to release that back in this budget. The assistant
chief position is basically restructuring.
since the merger. When we merged, there was a lot of front-end work that had to happen, and we have
wavered through a lot of that. And we have a vacancy that we would like to go ahead and remove from
the budget. Now, our five-year phase-in through the mergers would have included an additional
six firefighters this year. We're holding on that for a couple of reasons. One, we've all talked about
Senate Enrollment Act 1,
I don't need to go into the specifics, but there's a lot of uncertainties. But two, we've also applied
for assistance to firefighters grant for up to 12 firefighters, which if we were to go ahead and preemptively
hire these six, turn around and receive the grant, we would have to hire additional firefighters on
top of that, which could project a longevity issue for us. So we're holding on that until we get word
on the grant and we learn a little bit more about the impacts of
the Fire District on Senate Enrollment Act 1. Part-time there's a reduction from 15 full-time equivalents
to 12 full-time equivalents. This is part of the phase-in plan and it would have been to offset by adding
career firefighters and lowering the full-time equivalents. This time we're kind of looking at doing
that for the same reasons as the battalion chiefs. We're not
adding those additional firefighters this time around from the career side. However we have so many
vacancies currently in our full-time and equivalent positions due to the massive hirings last year.
Last year we had an 11 person recruitment class and a 14 person recruitment class. So we depleted those
full-time equivalent positions. Those are job share jobs so of the 15 that's actually 30 individuals
did not have the 20 we need to fill that up so we want to remove three of those full-time equivalents
for the budget in 2026. Due to these changes in cost in the salaries and benefits there are a lot of
correlating lines in that first category that you see reductions in there's less social security less medicare
That is not that we're cutting that out. We simply won't need it with the reduction in the salaries.
A holiday pay that includes Easter. Easter is not currently on the Fire District's list of holidays
and that is something that our union brought forward requesting we add. So that would actually bring
our holiday list up to 10 holidays or I'm sorry 11 holidays from the 10.
You'll notice that there's a large increase in the perf. Kim, if my mic keeps cutting out,
just let me know, because I keep hearing it and not hearing it. Budget cuts. It's part of it. And so
you'll see a significant increase in that perf line. That's the employer contribution. So we had the
5% cost of living adjustment, which impacts that line, but also the state employer contribution
requirement went up a full three percent from twenty point five twenty one point five to twenty three
or no twenty point five to twenty three point five percent and that's of the entire certified salary.
Our volunteer contract it's small but I just wanted to bring this up because this is something that's
always been important to me
Just like our full-time equivalent positions, we depleted a lot of our volunteer ranks through the mergers,
the hirings, and the various changes that we made. We are slowly getting that built back up.
A lot of those positions are non-emergency responders, but we have folks that are coming in and helping
us with community events, they're helping us with scene support, they're helping us with fire prevention
details, and it's definitely been a huge benefit to our communities. So again, small increase in the
budget that we have, but it's something worth noting. That are the changes, the large changes in the
personnel categories. In the supply categories, you'll see a reduction of 10%,
the fuel category. That's based on 2024's actuals and 2025's budget having a spread of $50,000 with
2025's budget trending in favor of the decrease. Several years back we increased that line significantly
because fuel costs had gone absolutely insane. Hopefully that doesn't happen again but it's time to
kind of right size that
category and get it back where we feel it's needed. Small reduction in hazards materials mitigation
again based on our actual expenses and without adding those six additional firefighters, the collar
guard supplies can be reduced as we'll need less class A uniforms in 2026.
Our seminar is in training. We have a new Assistant Chief of Training who just took the position at
the beginning of this month and we are going to be focusing a lot more on internal certification courses
in the future. We kind of pivot back and forth. It's good to go outside, get training, bring it back.
But if we continually are going outside, you just don't have the time to bring it back and execute it
the way you want it to. So in 2026, we plan on taking a lot of what we've done in 2025 and spreading
that amongst all of our members. General insurance, we still don't have the exact estimate, but just
like last year,
We believe the worst-case scenario for our general insurance is a 10% increase and that's based on estimates
provided by our provider. Unfortunately we renew all of our insurances January 1st. They don't like
to give us the actual quotes until 60 days out so we always budget this with our providers giving us
a best guess in their professional opinion. Workers comp
That has been a difficult one for me. And the reason for that is when Perry Clear Creek became Monroe
Fire Protection District, we went from having about 15, 20 employees to having 110. Well, they look
at loss trends over a five-year period. So initially, our workers' compensation was super cheap because
they're looking at losses from a 20-person organization.
time is catching up and we've only got one of those years left on there, and we keep seeing that increase
because of that. Percentage-wise, we're not seeing more injuries and whatnot. We're basically going
through this phase of change there with that sliding scale. And then again, similar to what I mentioned
earlier with the realignment and reorganization of our leadership, there are a lot of things in this
services category that we've been able to adjust and mitigate after these large mergers as well. So
there's several lines there that you'll see changes to within there. So I kind of went supplies and
services clumped together but all in all no true major changes. That's all that I have prepared for
the general fund.
Okay, thank you for that. And I'm gonna look over here to my left to see if anybody has any questions.
Okay, I'm gonna look over here and I already saw a hand, Councilor Iverson. Thank you both for being
here today. And like I said, with the Waste Reduction District, you can tell we're all in the same boat
with the number of lines that you reduced or kept flat. So we're all in the same boat here.
Well, let me make another observation. Your 4B is really healthy. Kudos to you. It's tough to do in
these environments of uncertainty, like you said. So it's nice to see that big operating balance projected
for the end. So well done. The first question I had was in the ones in your personnel lines of medical services.
You know, we're really proud that we were able to get some more, you know, things out there for EMTs
and help you get to those calls first and everything like that. How is that going? I know we tried to
get some more vehicles out there to help you guys or help your folks get to those calls. So I just wanted
to talk about that.
Yeah, so just kind of talking about the ambulance stuff, you know that really ran into service in August
of 2024. And from August 2024 to August of this year, we had a total of 1089 ambulance responses.
623 of those were true blue ambulance transports. I'm sorry 623 of those were some type of actual medical
need. 453 of those resulted in a transport. We were canceled in route 196 times. We stood by at special
events 228 times and we did 42 public service events with those ambulances. That's with one of them
staff 24-7. We have a second one that we stand up
for sporting events, high call volume times, nights and weekends, and then we have the two additional.
One of the coolest things that I have seen us do with these ambulances, obviously the 911 stuff is super
important right, but every local high school contacted us this year to have our ambulances at their
sporting events.
We're there every Friday night at Edgewood, Bloomington South, Bloomington North football games and
the interaction that we've had with the community in those locations has been probably the most rewarding
to me of the whole ambulance project. Obviously we've had a handful of calls that were very meaningful
but just seeing people see us there and be happy that we're there is pretty cool.
So yeah on that medical services line that is actually for our physicals. So our firefighters are required
to do annual health care physicals because we're hazardous materials technicians and that small increase
there is for additional personnel. We actually have a group that we have been contracting with the last
several years out of Indianapolis. They're used statewide they're called public safety medical. We pay
them to travel down here and then members of our organization cost us about a hundred and fifty dollars
per physical so we're able to get our auxiliary members our board members our volunteers and everyone
in in that medical services line so thanks for bringing that up. Well it sounds like a good return on
investment from you know just it's amazing to think about if we didn't have those ambulances out there
trying to respond to those calls. My final question to you is on the PPE line. I know last year you
came and talked to us about how important that is for the first responders and I just want to make sure
that you know we've got folks outfitted as appropriately as possible. We actually just completed a very
large gear purchase. We found that we have a new quartermaster and
several of our firefighters were lacking their secondary pair of gloves which meant if they went on
a fire they were using contaminated gloves on that second fire so we just purchased a hundred sets of
gloves and he has been issuing those out over the last several days so we get those out into our members
but no this budget line in the cumulative fund is significant towards the progression of our
PPE replacement. We are bound by an FPA to replace that gear at least every 10 years. What we're trying
to do is replace one of our firefighters gear every five years. So they have a five year old set that
becomes their backup set and a new set of gear with the latest, greatest technology. So this cumulative
fund definitely takes care of our people as far as PPE. Great. And Madam President, I just realized
that I skipped a budget up ahead. So I apologize for asking about the
Yeah. I won't talk about it then. It looks like the same thing on the sheet. Councillor Henry. I'll
stick with this budget. Thank you. Thank you Chief for being here and again it was good to see you this
morning at services for September 11th and I just thank all the fire service in our community. This
is a solemn day for the fire service as well as
of our country here. So I want to focus on just the overall structure of what you've done here to preserve
what you have and to acknowledge that some of the positions that are not being filled are not layoffs
or reduction in service to the community, but are really just structural on paper here as to how you're
moving some stuff around. My question is really, if we're holding staff as is and you're working through
that, what, if any, impacts do you see on the overtime
wine.
to cover down if we're kind of basically freezing or readjusting staff here. So our actuals for 2025
are pretty outrageous in the overtime line. And the reason for that is truly the lack of full-time equivalent
firefighters. Traditionally, we have those individuals as floats, if you will, so that when individuals
are off, we can shift them around and provide that coverage in the stations with minimum staffing. But
we've lacked that this year due to those massive hirings on the full-time side. So our overtime line has been
unusually high this year because we are filling a lot more shifts with overtime and not full-time
equivalents. And the hope is that, you know, the way you structured it for this year with. When budget
season's over, we are going to focus very hard on recruitment retention. Thank you, sir. All right.
Looking over here and seeing if anybody has any questions. Councilor Wilts. Yeah, thank you.
appreciate all of the things that you all have been doing in the community. It has been noticeable just
as a member of the community. So seeing you out and about more and more has been, it's been really nice,
really nice. And I do just have a question. Councilor Iverson brought up here four B's and you do have
operating balance.
that's perfectly healthy predicted for next year. Your expenses though are more than your anticipated
revenues in at least one, maybe two of the funds. And I'm curious how you see that trending. Is that
something that is unusual or how are you managing that? Hi, Lori Robinson here.
over the past three years we worked towards not expending all of our budgets and maintaining a little
bit of a percentage each year so that we could build our operating balance not only for such a time
as this when you know taxes are taking a shift but also for the ending of our grant that we had so we
knew that at the end of a three-year grant that we were going to have to
recapture all those costs of our firefighters so that we didn't have any layoffs, which is the last
thing that we would want. So we focus on keeping our operating balance at a higher level for both of
those reasons. At the end of this year, you can see that we may end up the year with about 5.9 million.
At the end of next year, we'd be at 3.3. So we are utilizing the operating balance that we've saved
over the last few years to help pick up the additional cost of these expenses.
You anticipate that maybe shifting as we figure out the new landscape for revenue and that kind of thing.
Absolutely. We don't believe that living off of the cash is going to be more than a one-year thing.
We'll have to make adjustments for 2027's budget if things don't look a little brighter. Well, I think
it's already been said. We're in the same boat. So I was just curious how you were looking at it.
Thank you. Cool.
Any other further questions on this? OK. So all those in favor of moving forward with the department's
line item or budget here, please signify by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign. All right.
Motion carries. Next up is item B.
Council, I move to open for discussion and review fund 8691, special fire, cumulative fire with the
category requests of personnel at $0, supplies at $0, services at $1,401,932, capital at $0 for a total
budget of $1,401,932. Second. All right. And what would you like to add to this item?
Okay. Hi, I'm Dustin Dillard. So hey, our cumulative budget is pretty short and sweet. We use that to
replace all apparatus, all cumulative capital equipment that we have. We use that to
to build fire stations, remodel fire stations. But there's some exciting stuff in this cumulative fund,
to be honest with you. One, as Councilor Iverson mentioned, the PPE line, we've gotten that where we
need it to be in 2025, and we've adjusted that for 2026 for the expected cost increases of that necessary
equipment. But something really cool, as we enter these days of uncertainty, our cumulative operating
balance has been built up substantially.
and we are going to utilize some of that to pay off Station 21's mortgage, Rescue 22, and Engine 22
for a couple of reasons. One, we've got the ability to do it because of the cash reserves that we've
built up and two, it's not only going to save interest on those loans over the next three years but
it's going to free up money in the cumulative fund for us to rely on if cuts are deeper to that general fund.
in 2027. So that's part of the cash discussion that we're having was freeing up funds elsewhere and
this budget does that as well. So it's pretty straight and narrow for a nine line budget. So that's
all I have. Okay thank you. Looking over here and seeing if anybody has any questions? No? Okay.
on this. Okay, all right. So all those in favor of moving forward with the 2026 special fire cumulants
of fire fund budget request signify by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign. All right, motion
carries. Next up is item C, rainy day. Council, I move to open for discussion and review fund 0061,
rainy day with a category requests of personnel at zero, supplies at zero,
services at zero and the capital line at $1,700,000 for a total budget of $1,700,000. Second. What would
you like to add to this?
So again, this one's pretty straightforward. We've got one line for apparatus purchase. That apparatus
purchase is actually for two pieces of valuable equipment. One is Marine 21. It is the fire suppression
and EMS watercraft at Station 21 that provides coverage to all of Lake Monroe.
not just the surface, but the residential areas, the four winds, the marinas, and all of that. The boat
that we have now is approximately 25, 30 years old. It's not necessarily designed for Lake Monroe. It's
a flat bottom jet drive boat. Every time we take it over to Cut Right to extract the hiker from Hoosier
National Forest, we're pulling things up into that jet and requiring some form of service. So this piece
of apparatus would be
50 to 60 year haul with outboard motors that we can replace or run with one down so they're double outboards
if one goes down we still operate with one it also has a small motor and a fire pump similar to our
identical to our fire apparatus so our folks can repair that piece of equipment
This is just a lot more functional piece of equipment and a lot more common sense for our applications
and our maintenance capabilities. The second piece is a fire engine. We have not bought a single piece
of firefighting equipment since the merger. When we had that
code of many callers is what I call it come in with equipment we have really needed to evaluate the
fleet what apparatuses have been well taken care of which apparatus is needed service and over the last
several years we've gotten those in fairly stable condition but it's time to start replacing some of
those and this rainy day fund does that so again the rainy day fund has been funded one it initially
started several years back I think it was 2016 2017 when we all got these surprise surplus
plus revenue funds from the state of Indiana, and it was required to go into a rainy day fund. We established
our rainy day fund then. We have not spent a dime out of it since. So these are saved up funds. Again,
what I'm happy with with this is when we went through the merger, those of you who are a part of that
process attended those meetings, you know that I tried to tell people we're going to minimize the amount
of loans that we get. We're not going to bond. We want to use that cumulative to not charge interest.
And we're doing that outright with both of these pieces of equipment.
1.7 million dollars with a loan over five six seven years that's a sizable amount of money another way
that we're kind of we feel more comfortable going into next year is knowing that we don't have those
debts okay thank you for that and already saw a hand raised over here so council Henry thank you and
thank you for that I just I just want to maybe double stomp or echo what you just said about the
that the use of this fund as opposed to borrowing money on a bond on interest that we're paying into
the market and then using it to buy the capital purchase. I mean, this is incredibly responsible what
you're doing here. And I think this is a message as we think about our comments this evening, as we
start to wrap up our six days about how we're using bonds versus the rainy day and the cash we have.
So thank you for that. And that's it. Councilor? I don't have it in front of me. What's the cash balance
on this fund?
3.5 million. I'm looking over here to my left to see if anybody. All right. So all those in favor of
moving forward with the department's 2026 rainy day fund budget request signified by saying aye. Aye.
All those opposed, same sign. All right. Motion carries. Well, we appreciate it. And I always appreciate
seeing station 22 right now.
street from the house and we appreciate everything y'all do. We will relay that to them and real quick
before I go just a couple things. We're going to be at fall festival with the fire safety trailer
tomorrow for Kids Day. Saturday, we're going to be at Kroger South with the Hoosier Hills Food Bank
raising funds and getting non-perishable food donations. Bloomington Fire Department will be at the
Eastside Kroger doing the same thing. So if you can make it out to either of those, that would be wonderful.
And then Sunday, we're at the Wonder Lab. So lots going on this weekend. What time are you there on
Saturday? 10 to 2. OK. All right. Thanks for bringing the crew. Thank you.
Yeah, so it's nine eleven. We always get dinner and go out to the memorial and we go in the morning
to the service and we go in the evening. And also one of our firefighters was eating downtown tonight,
saw my truck and said, hey, I'm going to stop in and see you work. So he's back there, too. First time
ever. Thanks. Well, thank you. Have a good night. All right. Next up.
on the budget train is item number seven, which is the Youth Services Bureau.
Council, I move to open for discussion and review fund 1114-0166 lit special purpose YSB with a category
request of personnel at $2,084,483, supplies at $67,900, services at $135,650, capital at $20,000 for
a total budget of $2,308,033. Second.
All right, and welcome. We have Judge Harvey, Vicki Thevenau, and we have Vanessa Smith. Welcome.
Thank you. And you can go ahead. OK, good afternoon. I'm Vicki Thevenau. I think last year I told you
it might be my last budget hearing. I wasn't right, but this will be my last budget hearing. And I just
want to remind the council and the public of a few overarching things that I want to be sure we don't forget.
First of all, YSB generated over a million dollars last year in per diems and we project we will again
produce over a million dollars. This money all goes to the county general fund and is used as needed
by the council. So that is money that is not part of this budget. Second, the lit special purpose budget
which is what funds us and with the exception of
grants, that is our only funding source. That was why it was initially started and it's beginning to,
a lot of people, a lot of different agencies are starting to take money out of this and I just want
to remind us all that we need to keep an eye on it. We need to be sure that we do projections regularly
so it's sustainable because we would not be able to function without it.
So just a friendly reminder, I also wanted to point out that YSB has been fiscally conservative always.
You have not ever seen us come in for an additional appropriation in my tenure, and I've been the director
since 2016. We come in to appropriate grants, but we haven't ever asked for more money. So it was really
hard for us to cut much, because we also flatline most years.
But we decided, did all of you read the email from us today that came this morning? If you didn't, I'm
going to talk briefly about that. We really reviewed to see needs versus wants. And what could we sacrifice
or where else could we possibly cut for tonight? Because I know it's something that needs to be done.
So we have asked that we give up for twenty twenty six the Monroe County Childhood Conditions Summit
that we've this is our tenth year for twenty twenty five. We are going to have it. We're excited about
it was Judge Galvin's baby. And I have asked him about how he feels about this. And he knows that this
is a proposal this evening and is supportive of the necessity of these kinds of things. So we have asked
to beyond what was submitted originally that
that we cut funds of, well, totally it would be $12,000, but four of those were asking to put in our
part-time line item, part-time hourly. And that's because we have to meet the needs of the youth. And
the needs of the youth include we also have to give our full-time people vacations and days off.
We have sometimes a high census that requires, we always have to meet our ratio, so sometimes it requires
a third part-time person to be present. And we believe that takes priority over a summit. So that was
the amendment today that we proposed to you.
And last, good news, we found out just before we came over here that we were given our Runaway and Homeless
Youth grant from the federal government again. It was renewed. I was a little worried about that. And
we have $182,000 that funds two positions that we'll be able to have for this next year. So, I know,
sigh of relief there. Vanessa Schmidt is gonna go into a little more detail about our budget and then
Judge Harvey will wrap up.
Thank you. Good evening council. So like Victor you mentioned in the ones in our personnel category
the only increases you'll see to that are due to the coal raises in addition to the seven step increases
for the full time positions. And like mentioned the four thousand dollars that we're asking to be placed
back into part time so that we can meet the needs of the youth meet ratio and you know provide time
off for those that are full time and have benefits and become ill.
And so those are the only increases that you will see in our O1s. In our supplies category, there are
increases to our fuel and food lines. Those are due to inflation. Therefore, we tried to make other
reductions in the supply lines that we were able to. Those are only increases in that area.
in the services category in the 03s. As mentioned, the budget amendment you received reduced the overall
MC3 funding by $12,000 in addition to other line reductions. With that 4,000 going back into part-time,
we were able to decrease the 03s by $9,000 overall. And then in the 04s, you'll see no changes in our
capital line items. And again, as Vicki mentioned, those per diems are returned to the county, into
the county general fund.
We were allowed to keep those capital items and promise that by the council many years ago for our computer
and furnishings line because when residents break computers, when they break furniture, we are not able
to wait to come for additional appropriations to replace those items. There are often safety concerns
such as cameras, door locks, things like that.
So outside of those COLA and STEP increases, the only increases that we're asking for are to the part-time
line, fuel and food. We have scrutinized our entire budget and offset those costs wherever we could,
including that MC3 summit, which was a hard decision, but we do believe it's the right decision. And
just to kind of add on to Vicki's introduction, we were able to educate in 2024 over 35,000 children
about the dangers of running away, safe place program, and the
YSB services that we offer in addition to around 11,000 adults. And we were able to provide direct service
to over 320 youth in 2024. So as always, we just want to thank you guys for your continued support to
help us meet the needs of youth in crisis.
I get to be a cheerleader right now. First of all, one thing that Vicki did not mention is that today
she had an audit from DCS with no problems. And that is another one of those very important things that
they, the staff work tremendously hard. And in the short time that I have been at the helm on the juvenile
court, all I have seen is Vicki being very worried and then not having any problems afterwards because
she's so conscientious and because her staff is so top-notch
I do want to also just point out the value of the services that US or Youth Services Bureau gives to
this county. I think you probably know that The safe place obviously is an important piece These young
people are at risk on a variety of levels The truancy termination project is extremely important has
been very successful. It's grown from a one
one school pilot to, I don't know how many kids you serve in that program right now. A hundred last
year. How many in the first year? So few. I mean, I recall, but it was just kind of off the ground,
but it has been extremely successful and really diving deep into the reasons that children are truant
and getting them back into school.
They serve young people who don't have any place to go in terms of DCS, maybe a short-term stay, maybe
on probation side, that ordinarily and otherwise would be out of the home or at least away from families.
So their success is dependent upon staying in the community.
I've just been extremely impressed with this program in the short time that I've been here at this in
this role. I think the county owes a tremendous debt to Vicki Tevinol having this being her last year
at this role. She's tremendous and has done a fantastic job. So thank you.
It's hard to follow. It's really hard to follow. And it actually kind of makes me a little emotional
because hearing the fact that you have to cut MC3, because I know people who have gone to that. I know
my daughter actually was presented a couple of years ago as well. And I know that there are some
family members and some students who have gone through YSP and have used the services and still
are moving through and are up and up because of the care that you all have presented to them. So I just
want to say thank you for that. In addition to that, if this is your last official budget, which it
sounds like it is, then definitely another round of applause goes to you because it's clear through
listening to Judge Harvey.
Every time we hear something about YSB, it's like we see your face and you are just so amazing at your
job and what you do. So I definitely appreciate it and well deserved. When is your last? Do you know?
Haven't announced a date. It'll be early next year. OK. Well, you keep us in mind when you announce
it because we definitely want to make sure we give you another kudos before your official send off. So yeah.
My question to you before I look over to my other council members here is, is there any way, so because
you're doing the summit this year and then next year it's basically it will be no more. Is there a potential
of maybe like partnering with other people to like keep it afloat? It is my hope that we could collaborate
with either IU or other
local agencies and do a joint venture that would accomplish the same goals, allow us all to come together,
do the same level of education that we've done and have youth presenters and all of the things that
that summit has provided and do that in just a different way and then the result isn't the county only
funding it. It would be a joint effort in the community.
So maybe it could even grow, who knows. But yes, I didn't, yeah. We had to cut it out for 2026, but
I didn't want it to die. And we're just starting to brainstorm, because we just made this recommendation
for next year. Remind me how long it's been going on, the Childhood Summit. It's 10 years, correct? 10, yeah.
And in these discussions, too, I had the same concern. And I think there's room for smaller focused
groups, too, throughout the year. We still have some training budget here, partnering with different
agencies on just a smaller group basis. We have a fantastic space over at YSB. We can bring lots of
groups in on smaller levels and still hopefully provide some of the really valuable training. So I don't
think it's off the table. It's just in the form
that it's now in the cost, I think, because they've reevaluated.
I guess the only other thing that I would add to that, I'm just brainstorming off topic here, because
we're always talking about city county collaboration and creativity. And one thing that I know in mind
is that the city has the Commission on the Status of Children and Youth, and they have the whole council
chambers that I know that people have used before for summits. There was a summit there this morning
for young black males from
And so I just, I'm really hoping that there is a way that if the powers that be could really kind of
get together to really continue to do that, because I just know that that is something that's passionate
for you all. Definitely passionate for me to continue to see how we can make that happen. So I'm willing
to think of all the ways that we can brainstorm to make sure that
we can continue to do that. Well, we might invite you to a little brainstorming session then when that
starts next year. Okay, pencil me in. All right, now we'll stop yapping and I will look over here to
my left to see if anybody has any questions. Councilor Rolts. I don't have any questions about the numbers.
I appreciate the work that you've put into this. But I think that
you know, this isn't the first or the last time we're gonna be looking at a budget in lit special purpose.
And I think it's something that we need to say out loud, which is last year, we cut the rate and said
at the time, we needed to take a look at it and possibly reinstate this year
And it's my opinion that that is something we should do. This isn't the time to get into that necessarily,
but since we've opened a budget funded entirely by Let's Special Purpose and given what else we are
going to be looking at tonight, I just wanted to get that out there and just put my thoughts out so
that maybe we can follow that up
with whatever needs to be done. I know doing the tax, the income tax rate change requires certain things
to happen before October 1st, and it's September. So you're looking at me like I'm crazy, and I was
hoping I'd be getting like thumbs up. October 31st. Oh, beautiful. We can just kick back.
I think we should. I think we should be looking at that for this year. Just coming. Right looking over
here and seeing if anybody
quite an emotional day. It's really wonderful to see you here. It's really wonderful to be able to go
through this budget and talk about all the wonderful things that you all have been doing and most certainly
will continue to do. My one regret is that Marty Hawk can't be here tonight. She is after the judge
is your number one cheerleader and she would really relish being here tonight to sing your praises.
So when you make your announcement and you throw a party for her,
Let us know. I have two questions for you. One is about the numbers and one is about vacancies. I'll
start with the numbers. I understand that we want to move funds into your part-time line, but as I'm
looking at the budget, what line is the summit in?
It's normally it's not a line item It's been paid out of both professional services and travel and training
depending on whether it would you know We have to pay the Convention Center. We have to pay the audio
visual people So there was never a line item for it We spent twelve to thirty twelve to fifteen thousand
dollars over the last ten years every year for the summit It came out a different line item. So we took
six out of travel and training and six out of professional services
via our email today in addition to what all we had submitted so that would be the answer to that yellow
one three and three oh two eight so it would it's uh three zero zero one three for professional services
three zero zero two eight for training job correct
Yeah, I have it on the screen as well for you. I need a lot of help. She's great. She keeps up. Yeah.
My second question is on vacancies. I know we just got an email from you requesting to fill a position.
How are things going over there? The clinical coordinator? Yeah. That's a tough position. It requires
an LCSW and usually by the time people pass that test and are doing it,
not very long after they want private practice because it's more lucrative. We actually have done some
interviews and are feeling pretty good about filling that position. And you will find that we get counselors
often fresh out of school, not always, and they want to do a couple years, three years with us to get
their hours to take their LCSW test because they need clinical supervision.
So the turnover is going to be, in our clinical team, probably consistent. Our direct care, we are so
blessed. We have a handful of solid people who have been there for a lot of years, seven, eight, nine,
10 years. The direct care people live with these, I mean, they're with those kids eight and a half hours
a day, or afternoon, or night. And if we don't get the part-time people to give them their days off,
the benefits that they earn
it's easy to burn out in those positions. So we're gonna have, and we also hire part-timers, some of
them are students, graduate students, or kids that graduate, eventually they finish their degrees and
move on, but they're good with kids. And we try to be very diverse in both ages, all the things, because
we need kids to be able to relate to somebody on staff. So we will have turnover. You will see me asking
to fill positions from time to time, because it's just that kind of business.
Did that answer your question? It did. We just want to make sure that you're not overwhelmed by the
vacancies, but at the same time as someone who is married to an LCSW. Yeah. I understand. They also
serve on our license for the emergency shelter, which was contracted by DCS. So that's a very important
position for us. So we will ensure that that gets filled. Anything we can do to help. Yeah. Thank you.
All right. Anybody else have any questions?
All right. And just for the record, Councillor Trent Dekker is joining us. So. All right. So seeing
no more questions, all those and wait, hold on. Oh, I've got some motions. Oh, that's right.
That's right. OK, go for it. Council, I move to reduce line zero one. Excuse me.
That's not right. Let me get my numbers right. Council, I move to reduce line 30013 professional services
by $6,000. Second. Okay, we got a motion and a second. And any further discussion on this? All right,
seeing none, all those in favor of reducing line item 30013 by $6,000, signify by saying aye. Aye.
All those opposed, same sign. All right, motion carries. I'm gonna do this a little more expediently.
Council, I move to reduce line 30028 by $6,000 and simultaneously add $4,000 to line 17801 part-time.
Second. Okay, and we got a motion and a second. And are there any further discussions on that?
Okay, seeing none, all those in favor of this motion signify by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed,
same sign. All right, motion carries. And so as we've done before, when we have these amendments, I'll
look to Kim Schell to see what our new grand total is before we move forward. In the personnel line,
we have a new total of 2 million.
$88,483. There's no change in the supplies. New total for the services line is $123,650. No change in
the capital for a new budget total of $2,300,033. Okay. All right. And so,
All those in favor of moving forward with the department's 26 lit special purpose fund request signify
by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign. All right. Motion carries. Thank you very much. Have
a good night. Next up on our list is
Item number eight, which is court services. Council, I move to open for discussion and review fund 1000-0225
County General Courts with the category requests of personnel at $3,521,682. In the supplies category
at $32,000. In the services category at $757,404. Capital is at $0 for a total budget of
$4,311,086. Second. Great. We got a motion and a second. And we are joined by Judge DeKoff and Liz Abraham.
Welcome. I brought my deputy court administrator, Jama Chandler. Hello. Welcome, Jama. First exposure
to budgets. What a time. Don't scare her away. Well, I can. OK. And our budgets this year in the salaries,
we did the 3% COLA.
I just want to remind you, if you look at it, it looks like it's bigger than 3% because back in February,
I did come before you after I went to WIS and they got increased. So it looks like more than 3%, but
I did take the total for this year in the 3%. So I just, it's there. Okay. And in the twos and the threes,
I went through and looked over the last five years and made a lot of reductions. I'm barely changed.
I think anything in the increase, but I deducted quite a bit after looking that I had room to
decrease. So I did do the decrease. And in lines after talking to both Kim and Carly, I found out lines
2-0, 3-0-0, and 3-0-0-0-4 are being removed per council. So when I look at those, I have to already
have one at a zero in the two. So that's not a problem. But in my threes, the repairs equipment vehicle,
was it 2000? So
I would move that we reduce that to zero since that line is going away. And I move that 2,000 up then
into the office supplies because I can take it out of there. So it's just a movement, not changing any
amount in that. Everything else, like I said, stay the same or basically went down.
And so basically what you're saying. And so in that three, zero, zero, zero, four, reduce that to zero,
but taking what we have there and move in that to the office supply line. Yes. To zero, zero, zero,
one office supplies. Okay. Okay. All right. And does anybody have any questions on this particular budget?
Looking over here to my right. Councilor Henry.
Thank you for the work on this one. The line item we've talked about with just about everybody is the
training and travel line, the 30028 for you. The three-year average on the travel looks like about 6,800
over a three-year period, and then it's 12 and 60 this year. Can you walk me through the travel line item?
There are certain requirements that we have to meet to satisfy our being able to get the adequate amount
of numbers that we're supposed to get. We have it at 12,000. We discussed lowering it to 10,000 as opposed
to 12,000, but we believe that at least $1,000 a judge is appropriate simply because there are conferences
we have to attend.
and things that we have to do to make sure that we're keeping up with the law or changes in
the problem-solving courts or whatever it may be. So there are things we go to that, for instance, the
annual conferences next week, the Supreme Court will cover the cost of the hotel for the actual two
days that we're there and that type of thing. So we've looked at it, but we do try to be judicious about
using it. Yeah, it looks like it was about 8,000 last year, so down to 10,000.
probably makes sense, especially if there's covering of the hotel rooms and some of this. So, yes. Okay.
That's it. Okay. Councilor, everything. I have a question on juvenile detention line in your threes.
That's three, two, two, one eight. You reduced that by a significant amount. Why? When I looked over
the numbers, not even to discuss it with Judge Harvey, since that affects her, that over the last five years,
It has drastically gone down. I even had to get my cheat sheet here. When I looked over the last five
years, you don't have to hurry. You've got 20 minutes last year. I still had with my due retention.
I only use $69,000 and change last year out of 300,000. The year before that was 82,000 out of 300,000.
The year before that was 107,000 out of 300. So as you see, it keeps going down, down, down. So after
talking to her this year, it is a little bit higher. I could be 100,000 plus this year. It just went
up. So that's why we decided that we could lose 100,000, and we should still be fine. Yeah. Yeah. And
that's wonderful. That was quite a reduction, and I just wanted to know why. I've been watching that
line. Yeah.
Okay. And I'm going to look over here and see if anybody has any questions. Counselor Decker. We don't
often get good news in these parts. I suspect you have similar sentiments, but I don't want to speak
for you. But that reduction is a reflection of something good, right? Out there in the world.
Thank God. I'd love to hear. I'd love to hear some good words for three seconds, maybe.
I don't lean down very well. I get to be a cheerleader again. This is a reflection of a couple things,
primarily our JDAI program, juvenile detention alternatives initiative. It's a statewide program. Many
counties are part of it. There's a lot of work that goes into intakes, assessments, and working with
young people to keep them out of detention.
While you know the number on detention stay is lower the work is high. But we have a fantastic team
Christine McAfee is here she's our coordinator. So that's one of them it's a balance because we are
always and I appreciate.
Lisa's statement like it could be higher. We don't have any control over the activities of young people,
but it is also consistent with the culture that I think was started with Judge Talaferro.
carried on through Judge Galvin is that we are looking at these young people as children and what would
we want for our children who may make mistakes or take some action that they need to be held accountable
for, but really the best place for them is not long-term stay in detention. It's evidence-based. We
try very hard not to keep our young people in detention for very long.
It's an effort to keep them out, get them in if necessary to protect the public and themselves, work
very hard in finding an alternative if they've been placed to get them out quickly, but also work really
hard not to put them there. So it is an absolutely wonderful thing because it's reflective of the staff
of the probation department and just how hard they work for these kids. Thank you, Judge. One thing
I'll just say,
Just to fellow counselors, this has come up before, and I'm so sorry for being late tonight.
But on occasion, when we look closely, we always all talk about solutions. But occasionally when we
look closely at our current court system, there are things that work tremendously well. We will look
at those things, focus on those things, photocopy those things, replicate those things. And I really
am happy to hear something good out of this and appreciate all that.
I'm pleased to present that to you. All right. Looking over here and seeing if anybody else has any
questions. Okay. I think we might have a amendment by Councilor Iverson.
Reduce line three, zero, zero, zero, four, repairs equipment vehicle to zero and simultaneously set
line or add, excuse me, $2,000 to line two, zero, zero, zero, one office supplies. Second. All right,
we got a motion and a second. Are there any other further discussion from council members regarding
this item? All right.
All those in favor of this change signify by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign. Okay, motion
carries. And I'm gonna give Michelle a moment to give us a new grand total. There's no change to the
personnel. Supplies, 34,000. Services, 755.
$755,404 with a new budget total of $4,311,086. Okay. And President, I have a second motion here. We
missed it. It's the training travel. Oh, okay. So if we may, Councilors, I'd like to make a motion to amend
account lines 30028 train travel from 12,060 to 10,000 even. Okay, we got a motion in a second. Any
other further discussion on reducing the this line item to 10,000?
All those in favor of reducing this line item to 10,000, signify by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed,
same sign. OK, motion carries. OK. And so another official. Oh, wait. I saw another hand. I actually
have a question that I have come up with. OK. Can I change the subject and ask them a question about
a different line? Sure.
about the part-time line, and I should know this, because I've met with you all, but it's, I think,
at 50, is that correct? I'm looking at multiple documents. And I'm not remembering if we've talked about
part-time, why it's set quite so high.
given the utilization over the past several years. In the past, I just covered two of my part-time bailiffs.
And our info coordinator spot comes out of part-time. And it takes all of the law clerks for all of
our judges throughout the entire year. We never know semester to semester how many we're going to have.
I think we have like five right now for this semester. So oh, seven. Sorry, seven. Jamie's in charge of that.
So that's why that is higher. We're not needing any part-time bails right now. We're full, but we do
have a gentleman that has retired and said anytime if we need him to that he would come back if we get
shorthanded. So that's why that's there. Does look like you've not fully utilized it though. Is that
something that could be reduced?
I mean, if we can reduce it, it's one of those if it gets to a certain level, I come back for an additional
or we would have to either tell the judges that they need to lose a law clerk or I have to tell my info
coordinator, we have to cut our hours. Well, I'm not suggesting that it's just that if the need hasn't
changed from previous years and the utilization, what I'm looking at over the past several budgets is
that in 2024, you spent about 26,000.
In 23, 35,000, no, 28, I mean, it was up in 22 to just 39,000. So a lot of that. I'm just. Okay. After
I talk to Chica, how about we try 40,000 and let's just see how it goes from there. Cause I said, some
of our interns do pay. Some have started doing volunteer, but we never know, but we can go 40 and we'll
just monitor it next year and see.
Awesome. Okay. So I do you want to do that? I don't know. You do it. Darn it. Oh, come on. Um, so given
that I move that we, um, take the part time line down. Um, so the part time line one seven eight zero
one down to 40,000. So reduce it by 10. Second.
All right, we got a motion in a second on reducing that line item to 40,000. Is there any further discussion
from council members? If you want to give me just a couple minutes, I'll figure out the new FICA. Otherwise,
I can come back. That's fine. While we are waiting, and we don't have any jeopardy music, does anybody
else have any other questions related to
this item, no? Since we do have a minute, can I just say something? Yes. I would like to just say that
when Judge Harvey was up here talking about her team, I would also just like to recognize that what
Judge Harvey presides over is a very difficult docket. It's a very time consuming docket.
Um, it takes a lot of wisdom. It takes a lot of commitment and, um, she continues to promote the philosophy
of the Monroe County, um, court system. And I believe of this County as far as caring for people and
helping them improve, especially when they're children and realizing how important that is. And I don't
think she gets the recognition that she should for the kind of commitment that that
that that docket requires, and she does it in an exemplary, caring, very wise way. And so you acknowledged
that, and she acknowledged her team, but she does an amazing job for the children of this county. And
I just wanted to, since we had a minute, just be able to say that, so thank you. Yes, kudos.
The SIFICA amount would be 221,653. Okay. And so all those in favor of reducing this item to 40,000
signify by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign. All right, motion carries.
And then I'm gonna look to Kim again to give us another toe. I'm gonna make a motion with regards to
the FICA. Gotta do that, yep. Council, I move to edit line 18101 FICA to, what is that number? 221-653.
221-63. 653. 653. Second.
Okay, we got a motion in a second to reduce the FICA or to have the FICA line item to be 221,653. Any
further discussion on that? Okay. All those in favor of this motion signify by saying aye. Aye. All
those opposed, same sign. All right. And now I'm going to give you the ayes.
The new personnel line is 3,510,917. Supplies, 34,000. Services, 753,344. No capital change. For a total
of 4,298,261. All right.
now we will vote overall on this and all those in favor of moving forward with the 2026 county general
fund for court services signify by saying aye aye all those opposed same sign all right motion carries
next up is item b
Council, I move to open for discussion and review fund 1114-0225 lit special purpose courts with the
category requests of personnel $162,085, supplies $450, services at $333,353, capital at $0 for a total
budget of $495,888. Second. Okay.
Okay, once again, the personnel, I did the 3% COLA for that. In the supplies and the services, I again,
looked over my five years and I reduced some, but then I shifted, I reduced it by about five, but then
I went and I increased my GAL line up 5,000 because hopefully Judge Harvey isn't going to panic back
here, but as of this morning, my budget in there, I only have $94.87 in there as of right now.
She's not freaking out back there, is she? No. We'll get it taken care of. So that's why we're increasing
that to $5,000 for next year. So I'll do my magic and we'll get that taken care of. Yes. OK. Looking
to my left to see if anybody has any questions on this. No. Looking to my right, anybody? Shocker.
So all those in favor of moving forward with the 2026 lit special purpose fund signify by saying aye.
Aye. All those opposed same sign. All right. Motion carries. Next up is item C. Council I move to open
for discussion and review fund 1170-0225 public safety lit courts.
with the category requests of personnel zero, supplies zero, services at $301,616, capital is at $0
for a total budget of $301,616. Second.
Go ahead. Okay. This budget pays for the ASI guards in the justice building and the Curry building.
So it's just their salary. So I increased it by 3%. Again, this might look like it's a little different
because last year we inadvertently forgotten. If you recall, I came back before you to get this year's
corrected. So this is what the new total will be for next year. All right. Any questions on this item?
Look to my right. None. Looking to my left. None. Okay.
all right all those in favor of approving the 2026 special public safety lit fund signify by saying
aye aye all those opposed same sign all right motion carries next up is item d council i move to open
for discussion and review fund 2200-0000
Alternative dispute resolution with the category request of personnel zero dollars, supplies at $500,
services at $13,200, capital as at $1,000 for a total budget of $14,700. Second. Okay, and this one,
again, it's just can only be used for ADR, which is our coordination mediation in this fund.
When I am proposing and asking if I can do at this point on my contractual, I've talked to Kim show
about this too. It's currently a proposed 12,000.
If we can increase that to 15,000, there's plenty in this budget. My cash balance is at $118,599 as
of this morning. I've talked to Judge Stafford over this because that line right now is at, I have $241
left in that line. And I'm actually coming before you next week on September 16th County Council and
asking for a $5,000 additional appropriation. But that's the limit that I can do with the advertised
amount. Okay.
That's what I was gonna ask. Okay, all right. Does anybody over here to my right have any questions?
And look. Councillor Decker. Is this any automatic court-ordered mediation or is this just very specific?
This is one that comes, I've got it here. It's $20 from every divorce case that goes to this fund. So
it's divorce cases. It's for mediations, parent coordination services and co-parent counseling.
Anybody else have any questions? Kate has a suggestion. Are those fees regulated, like the amount?
By statute, they tell us what it is and it's collected when they file. Okay. All right. I think we might
have an amendment. We do have an amendment and that's in line 3006, contractual, correct? Correct. What
was the dollar amount change again?
I'm going from 12,000 up to 15,000. Great, thank you. Council, I move that we set line 3006 contractual
to $15,000. Second. All right, we got a motion in a second. Any additional questions or comments related
to this item?
Okay, seeing none, all those in favor of increasing this line item to 15,000 signify by saying aye.
Aye. All those opposed, same sign. All right, motion carries. And now, Michelle, for a new grant total.
There's no personnel, supplies is 500, services 16,200, capital 1,000 for a total of 17,700.
Thank you. All right. And all those in favor of moving forward with the department's 2026 alternative
dispute resolution fund budget request, signify by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign. Okay,
motion carries. Next up is item E.
Council, I move to open for discussion and review Fund 2511-0000. Jury pay user fees with a category
request of personnel at $0, supplies at $0, services at $36,500, and capital at $0 for a total budget
of $36,500. Second. Okay. What would you like to add?
Okay, this one is set up by state statute. Also, it's $4 from all criminal cases goes into this budget.
And as of today, I had $101,000 still in this budget. I've just kept it exactly the same. It looks like
we might have spent very much this year, but I've checked into trials this morning and I have a five
day murder trial coming up, a five day level one felony coming up, which are five days, two trials that
are level threes at five days each and two trials that are each gonna be nine day trials.
still yet this year. So that's, that'll take a hit. So I just, I'm, that's why I just want to leave
it in the fund, can only be used for jury trials anyway. So. Sounds like there's a lot on deck. Okay.
All righty. Looking over here at someone left and seeing if anybody, Councilor Decker. I just like to
always occasionally have a comment for the public's knowledge that, um, jury trials cost money,
lots of money. And so,
The less is more sometimes in that regard, probably on your end from a multitude of directions. But
for folks in the public, every time people don't agree and it goes before someone wearing a robe with
that distinguished title, that costs dollars. And we're paying for that already with whatever happens
out in the street and everything else. I always like to remind the public because there's a very real
component to all of this.
And I'll just add on the fiscal side, the 4B is really healthy. The operating balance that you're ending
up with is sufficient. So I think you'll be fine. OK. All right. And seeing no other further questions,
all those in favor of moving forward with the 2026 jury pay user fees bond, signify by saying aye. Aye.
All those opposed, same sign.
Okay, motion carries and the last item for court services is item F.
Council I move to open for discussion and review fund eighty eight ninety five dash zero zero zero zero
county 4d incentive with the category requests of personnel at forty nine thousand seven dollars supplies
at zero dollars services at zero dollars capital at nine thousand five hundred dollars for a total budget
of fifty eight thousand five hundred and seven dollars second and what would you like to add on this item
This is what pays 25% of commission rate per salary that we get reimbursed. And you'll notice there
is no change. And as Judge Eacom contested, his salary is based on the judge's salary. And this year,
the judges or next year, the judges did not receive a salary increase. So that meant his salary stays
the same also. All righty. And looking over here to my right and seeing if anybody has any questions.
Looking to my left. OK.
All righty, so seeing no questions. And for the final sign, all those in favor of moving forward with
the 2026 budget, County 4D's incentive fund budget request, signify by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed,
same sign. All right, motion carries. And that concludes core services. It's Tuesday. See you soon.
All right.
We, I think, are going, before we get to the last item of the evening for the probation office, or department
rather, I'm gonna take a 15, a little over a 15 minute recess. So I'm gonna ask, very kindly, but being
very stern with this, seven o'clock on the dot,
Um, there's a song, um, with that too, but, um, seven o'clock on the dot. We are here back on the day
is at seven o'clock to finish out this, um, budget presentation night. So we will recess until seven
o'clock be back. And it is seven o'clock on the dot and we are back and we are on the last department budget.
presentation this evening, which is the probation department.
Council, I move to open for discussion and review fund 1000-0226. County general probation with the
category requests of personnel line $3,200,685, supplies at $0, services at $4,000, capital at $0 for
a total budget of $3,204,685. Second. All right, we got a motion and a second. And we got the dream
team at the table here.
Please go ahead. Thank you. Before I get started on the courts, the county general budget, I'd like
to just give a little bit of an introduction to all the budgets. So yes, we'll be very short. So thank
you very much.
introduce the budget team. So, you know, Judge DeKalb, our presiding judge, me, Linda Brady, Chief Probation
Officer, Anthony Williams, who's Deputy Chief Probation Officer, and Becca Streit, who's also Deputy
Chief Probation Officer and our Community Corrections Executive Director. And on Teams, our
Office Administrator, Melissa Wallace, is listening in. She's the one who pays our bills. The Probation
Department, the funding summary is we have 26 budgets. So, a lot.
but we're only going to do nine tonight. Most of the probation expenses are personnel, with 90% of our
annual spending being on personnel. Our funding sources tax-based at 58%, and this is for this year,
user fees 16%, grants 26%. I'll briefly summarize our 2026 submitted budgets. All budgets with personnel
were prepared as directed by the County Council's letter with guidance from our
extraordinary county council liaisons Kate Wilson, Peter Iverson, and also Michelle, Kim Schell was
very helpful with us pulling our budgets together. So thank you. Some budgets with personnel may have
small increases in longevity for employees who qualify. There will be a few step raises in some of the
budgets, but overall with all the budgets with Judge Deakoff's guidance we've worked to reduce appropriations
in all budgets
including user fee budgets, not just the county general or tax-based budgets. And so when I introduce
each budget, I'll explain the budget lines that were cut prior to submitting the 2026 budget request.
Otherwise, budgets are generally flatlined at the 2025 appropriation levels. We will also talk a little
bit later about significant grant cuts for 2026. So as we already said, we're 26% funded by grants and
the cuts we'll talk about.
The goal of all of our user fee funds is to achieve a sustainable budget. And all of our past and current
county council liaisons know that we've been struggling for years with trying to keep all of these user
fee funds sustainable. We'll describe what we're doing with each of the user fee budgets to keep them
sustainable
we talk about each individual budget. For this year for 2025 we've already made cuts to our part-time
probation officer assistance not refilling positions when the part-time staff members leave and this
was to keep the community corrections user fee funds which is known as project income and other fee
accounts from being depleted to dangerous levels this year.
We formally employed 14 part-time probation officer assistants, and now we employ only four. So we're
really down. But we have reassigned our full-time community corrections field officers to help with
those duties in the day reporting program and the drug testing program, primarily conducting observed
urine drug testing. We've also made many other cuts this year in 2025 spending from our user fee funds
to keep them sustainable.
we're going to be able to do that for twenty twenty six. Did want to mention staff turnover- we
sessions because since COVID we've experienced unprecedented turnover specifically for public safety
officers which are probation officers and community corrections officers. As of today we have a full
staff I know Judge DeKalb is probably going to punch me for saying it but for seven weeks. I also want
to advise you that there is going to be a change for us with our travel training requirements next year.
First of all before you
worry we have no travel training coming from county general or public safety lit. Our travel training
is paid from grants and user fees and a relatively small amount of travel training and special purpose
lit but there are new department of correction requirements for all agencies that receive community
corrections grants. All agencies are being evaluated for adherence to becoming what's called an evidence-based
organization and we have been audited by the University of Cincinnati for this adherence and there's
been a report that's distributed to our local JRAC which is Justice Reinvestment Advisory Council. The
DOC is now requiring the agencies receiving community corrections grant dollars must demonstrate that
they are at least pursuing trying to adhere to their recommended changes. So prior to this new training
requirement probation officers by
by the state rules have to complete 12 hours per year continuing education with six of those hours dedicated
to evidence-based practices. However, based on the new audit from the Department of Correction, all
staff who supervise participants at a community corrections or probation program, which is our probation
officers, should receive
at least 40 hours of ongoing training. So from 12 to 40 per year with 75% of those hours, so 30 hours
concerning evidence-based practices focused on behavior change and service delivery. So it's a huge,
huge, huge jump. To increase these training hours, our department is planning to use existing learning
teams that we have in place already to bolster training hours and content. We'll be making some changes
to ensure that our learning team sessions
count towards evidence-based practices of behavior change hours. We'll also be working to find additional
training opportunities to demonstrate that we are making efforts to comply with the DOC's new increased
training report requirements. Despite this expected increase in travel the training requirements for
all of our 55 probation officers we did not increase travel training budget lines in any of our budgets.
Again reminder no travel training in county general or public safety lit.
security costs is the last item.
This is for our high volume day reporting morning session from 7 a.m. to 9 a.m. We contract with Crimson
Security for off-duty sworn law enforcement officers who are able to serve warrants and make arrests.
They just advised us yesterday that for 2026, they are raising their hourly rate from $60 an hour to
$70 an hour, which is a 17% increase. The security charges are split between two budgets, special purpose
lit and public safety lit, 50-50.
We'll be able to cover the increase in security cost of the same appropriation as we have in 2025 with
no increases. We already did the math. We'll be fine with the same appropriation. And that's summary
of all of our budgets. And when we get to individual budgets, then we'll talk more specifically about
those individual budgets. But that's all I have to start with. Do you want to add anything? Okay. Pardon?
do you have anything else no ready to do the county general which is what you just read okay so the
county general budget nearly all of this budget is for staff salary and fringe benefits we have only
two service items in the 30s totaling four thousand dollars in this budget as
Many of you already know the Indiana General Assembly made cuts to nearly all state budget lines for
the next biennium. Most state budget lines were cut by 5% and that includes the Indiana Supreme Court's
budget lines for pretrial services and problem solving court programs. However, the state cut community
corrections grants appropriation by 10% instead of the standard 5%.
this is after six consecutive years with the flatline state budget for community corrections grants.
So the DOC has made the decision to defund all Indiana pretrial services programs for 2026 and that
was just announced like a month ago something like that. So yeah not not good news. The DOC also kept
funding for problem solving court programs
and they flatline funding for community corrections programs which will be the seventh consecutive year
of flatlining so we all know what flatlining means is that community corrections user fees project income
has been tapped into to make up those differences in the cost of living increases step increases health
insurance for the past six years for our pretrial services problem solving court and community corrections.
So yeah, that's what we are dealing with from the state. Anthony and Becca recently attended a statewide
meeting for probation community corrections that had Department of Corrections staff, Indiana Supreme
Court staff.
They were, one of the topics was supposed to be alternative funding opportunities. From what I was told
for people who attended, including my team, the only concrete funding suggestion was to quote, work
with our local JRAC to use opioid settlement funds to alleviate the impact of these cuts. That was the
most concrete recommendation they had.
So in order to keep these important county programs in place for 2026, we have added the following positions
to our county general budget. So we added four pretrial services probation officers who were fully cut
from the DOC budget for 2026. We added four problem-solving court officers salary match that was formally
paid from community corrections user fees.
And then as we go through the county general budget, some lines are less due to employees with less
experience being moved into those lines and some are more due to step increases. I don't know if you
wanted to mention. We have been informed by the Supreme Court that there is a distinct possibility that
for 2026, they are going to attempt to supplement
what we receive from them with additional funding to try to make up for the money that we've lost from
the DOC grant. We feel fairly confident that we're going to receive something from the Indiana Supreme
Court. We just have not gotten a definitive figure from that yet. We've asked them, we told them that
we had budgets tonight, but obviously we can't push them along too fast.
But the idea was that since we lost, I think it was 295,000, that they're going to try to
in 26 for one time only try to supplement what we've already gotten and give us that additional money.
And we're fairly confident that that's going to happen. We just can't tell you tonight what that amount
is going to be. But there were a couple of other counties, Marion County being one of them, that have
opted out of doing pretrial release. So because of that, that would have freed up
the money that the Supreme Court had given them for their program, it would have freed up some of that
money. I think there was at least one other county that opted out. That's why we're confident that Monroe
County is going to receive some money, probably a fair amount close to what the DOC grant would have
been. We just can't tell you what, and we did try, but we don't have that exact figure tonight.
let us know obviously that it's one time only and in Marion County not only they opted out they've it's
done now I mean it's they've ended it in 2025 so I was told by the chief probation officer that 45 employees
so yeah that's really all I have I think for this budget if you have questions pardon is that it well
thank you for
that really sobering information that you gave us. So I would continue with my hashtags, but I'm not
gonna do that tonight. So looking over here to my right, does anybody have any questions on this item?
Council Iverson. We're all going through this. I've said this a couple of times tonight, and I think
you've heard me. This is a very challenging year.
based on where we've been. And so thank you for your summary. It helps, I think, us all feel like we're
in the same boat. And so I appreciate that. And also it was nice to be able to work with you because
we had to make some really, really hard decisions about some personnel lines. And so it's nice to work
with you on those and trying to find a way forward.
I also wanted to thank you for raising the topic of JRAC. The JRAC here at Monroe County is fantastic.
It is just a really great team of people. I know Kate Welch is on that. Just a really great team of
folks. And I just want to go on the record as saying that 100% the local JRAC should be controlling
the opioid settlement dollars.
it should not be an independent commission here in Monroe County. So I really I thank you for saying
that about the recommendation you got. And I just think that's so important. I think I think that's
what I'm going where I'm going to stop tonight because we went over this budget with you. Thank you
for making the reductions that you've made. Thank you. Looking over here to my left, Councillor Decker.
I appreciate the thoroughness of all of this. I struggle daily to figure out what is happening up north
that's coming in here. The game has changed so much, I don't even understand what the kids are out there
pitching. I'm not even sure they have balls in their hands anymore. And I guess, because everything
that you all do is evidence-based. We've seen that. Every counselor on here has seen PowerPoint presentations that are
priceless in their detail. And that evidence used to be what the state used to make decisions. Sounds
like the Supreme Court is still our friend, which thank God for that. You got a friend in the court,
but I guess, and you don't have to answer this because I don't want to put you in this, but I am trying
to figure out what is the end goal of these changes against evidence base? What do they want it to look
like down here?
Are you talking about us having to do more training or are you talking, I'm not sure what you're?
The cuts, the cuts. Oh, the cuts. Yeah. Well, we would have no idea why the DOC got 10% cut for community
corrections grants when they were actually given increases for some certain parts of their operations.
So I couldn't tell you why that would be. I wouldn't even wager a guess.
I would say that nobody across the state got received grant money for pretrial release funding. I believe
the Department of Corrections position is it really does not impact them. So why would they be funding
it? Because you're talking about releasing people without them posting it.
Well, I don't know if that's it, but nobody received that money despite the fact that the Supreme Court
strongly believes in pre-trial release. And it is very encouraging about those of us who do it to continue
doing it, which is why I believe they're looking at awarding us the money in 2026. But I don't really
know what the reasoning is
I think even the DOC staff, they didn't see it coming. There was a particular staff person. Our team
had attended training at the DOC just right after this got announced. And that was the training at which
they explained, oh, by the way, you have to increase your training by all these hours. And I'm like,
I'm not very happy sitting here hearing this when you're taking. And she said, obviously, it's not her
taking the money away. But she said, we know this is hard.
we don't know what to say. I mean, it's staff. So they're not in the loop of making those decisions.
But we have a really good team that we work with at the DOC who tries to help us. But I don't think
they saw this coming. And really, the goal of pre-trial, the goal of about everything you all do, at
least particularly on your end, is if I can keep this person
from having this thing that's happened in their life, from compounding even worse with jobs, time, family,
all those things. If I can minimize that a little bit and try to get them back to good, and I've seen
your workbooks, which are impeccable, I'd love to still them for my students, but there's ethics involved.
But that's the goal of all of this, to try to get this bad to be as minimally bad as possible for that
whole unit, right? Okay.
It's really quite simple for anyone watching from Indianapolis, and maybe they should just come down
and ask more questions. Thank you. Anybody else over here have any other questions. Councilor Wilks.
I don't have any questions we've gone over this, and I tried to be kind of a conduit for giving you
a heads up that this was coming, and I
I'm just at a loss. I mean, I'm not gonna reiterate what Councillor Deckard said, but obviously I think
we share the same perspective. So knowing that, I do have a question now, because if I talk long enough,
that's what happens. If you're expecting a one time possible supplement,
that gets us through one more year. Then are we, we're just back to, okay. But it buys us some time.
Yeah, okay. Just wanted to make sure I understood that, thanks. Does anybody else have any questions?
All right. Well, seeing none.
All those in favor of moving forward with the department's 2026 county general fund budget request signify
by saying aye. All those opposed, same sign. All right, motion carries. Next up is item B.
Council I move to open for discussion and review fund 1114-0273 lit special purpose juvenile probation
with the category requests of personnel at $897,842 supplies at $2,502 services at $82,224 capital at
$1,000 for a total budget of $983,568 second
go ahead okay the special purpose lit funds 10 full-time employees including nine probation officers
and one member of support staff it also pays for half of the
community correction security, the crimson security that I already mentioned, where we play 50-50-50%
out of this budget, 50% out of the public safety lit, and we're not requesting an increase in that,
just flatlining it to be able to absorb the 17% increase for next year.
We did submit cuts when we submitted this budget and we based the cuts on spending for the past five
years plus taking into account 2025 spending. So the cuts which are already in the budget are education
materials 500, programming and research supplies 1,000, contractual 9,500, phones and pagers 1,500,
drug testing 1,000, electronic monitoring 2,500.
hundred cjm vorp victim offender reconciliation program twelve thousand service equipment maintenance
and repair five hundred and equipment one thousand so all those are all cuts that have already been
submitted and if you have any questions thank you looking over here to my left seeing if anybody has
any questions no okay looking over here to my right seeing any
Okay well all those in favor of moving forward with the 2026 lit special purpose bond budget request
signify by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed same sign. All right motion carries. Next up is item C.
Council I move to open for discussion and review fund 1122-0000 community corrections user fees with
a category request. So personnel is at $195,345, excuse me, supplies are at $36,001, services are at
$43,500, capital is at $1,000 for a total budget of $275,846. Second.
Okay, the state apparently has renamed this fund. They had called it project income and now it's community
corrections program user fees. So this budget is our biggest user fee budget. It's a complimentary budget
to the community corrections grants. They're supposed to match each other with match money coming from
this fund for the grants. The fees can only be used to support community corrections program operating expenses.
The changes as we already discussed this budget currently pays the COLA step increases health insurance
increases for pretrial problem solving court and community corrections program. And because of the DOC's
grant being
um flatline for the past six years this budget has had to absorb all of those increases for the past
six years this flatlining is the reason this user fee fund has been depleted to what i would say are
dangerous levels and this is something we watch very carefully with and we go with our community corrections
advisory board our local jrack we talk about this at every meeting don't we kate it's always brought
up uh that we're just
trying everything we can to cut spending from this budget. So there's a lot of changes in this budget.
For 2026, as previously discussed, the DOC defunded all the Indiana pretrial programs and then cut funding
for problem-solving court programs. So for 2026, 12 community corrections employees who are currently
paid partially from this budget will be paid 100% from the community corrections grant.
And then for twenty twenty six is fun will pay the salary match for six full time employees which is
the veterans court probation officer continuous quality improvement pretrial program director community
corrections executive director one pretrial probation officer one legal secretary and evidence based
practice coordinator. But in order to keep this fund from going completely
upside down, we've removed the following positions, and we already talked about this for county general
for pretrial services POS, one mental health court probation officer one drug court probation officer
and two drug court field officers cuts that we've made.
before submitting were fuel by 8,000, supervision incentives by 12,500, contractual by 1,500, phones
and pagers by 500, special services by 5,000, fleet maintenance and repair by 4,000, and equipment by
1,500. And so you'll see a lot of changes. You'll see some one dollar. The dollar amount, if it says
one, that means they'll be paid
fully from the Community Corrections Grant for next year. And if they say zero, it's moved to County
General. That's how do you know the difference? And I think that's it that I have for this budget. Okay,
Council, do you all have questions? Looking over here to my right, Councilor Iris.
I'm looking at the the 4b for this and your income and your expenses are just just hanging and if it
wasn't for that operating balance to carry you through year after year I mean that's that's tight it
is very tight and it we used to have in the neighborhood of 400 000 in in the cash balance and that before
so many years in a row of the DOC grant being flatlined. So yeah, you're right. I mean, this is one
that we watch so closely, and the auditor's office is watching it with us. But kudos to you. I mean,
this budget is in the green, right? I mean, you're in the black. You're not deficit on this one.
That's great. Did you want to say? He thinks barely in the black, but in the black. Yeah, I mean, you're
there. Yeah, we are. Or we're there.
hanging in another year all right looking over here to my left to see if anybody counselor decker i'll
just be really quick i i think that for some time on every fund we have had kind of a where you can
have pad and all these things i do think in the future more and more things are going to look like where
it's literally matched
to in, to out, to in, to out. And the realities of all these things may make it that way. It's not pretty.
It's not ideal. But it may be our life for a long time. All right. Anybody else have any other questions?
All right. And seeing none, all those in favor of moving forward with the 2026 community corrections
user fee fund
user fees fund budget request signified by saying aye aye all those opposed same sign all right motion
carries next up item d council i move to open for discussion and review fund 1170-0226 public safety
lit probation
with a category requests of personnel at $207,989, supplies at zero, services at $299,780, capital at
zero for a total budget of $507,769. Second.
This budget is a fairly small budget in terms of our department. It funds one probation officer and
the problem-solving court, program directors, salaries, and fringe benefits. The only other expenses
in this budget are one-half of the community corrections security, as we already talked about, the drug
testing for the entire probation department, and the electronic monitoring, and that's to pay our vendor
for the daily cost of having the GPS
ankle bracelets and also for the alcohol testing equipment that people take home with them. So as previously
mentioned, no increase is requested for the security. We cut from electronic monitoring, we cut it from
160,000 to 147,000 based on the last four years of spending and year to date, 2025 spending. So we felt
comfortable with that cut based on the use at this point.
And that's it. If you have any other questions. OK. Looking over here to my left. Anybody? Seeing none.
Over here to my right. Seeing none. OK. Well, all those in favor of moving forward with the twenty twenty
six budget request for public safety lit signify by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed. Same sign.
All right. Motion carries. Next up, item E.
Council, I move to open for discussion and review fund 2504-0000 court alcohol drug user fees with a
category request. So personnel at $220,954. Supplies are $8,000. Services are at $36,676. Capital is
at $1,000 for a total budget of $266,630. Second.
Okay. This is a sister budget to the adult probation user fee budget, which we'll talk about.
soon. It's an interchangeable fund we consider with adult probation user fees because we are a unified
probation department and court alcohol and drug program, meaning all of our adult probation officers
are also court alcohol and drug program staff certified. So they all receive the proper education to
be a certified alcohol and drug professional staff. The fees can only be used to support the court alcohol
and drug program staff salaries and program operating expenses and the fees are set by statute.
After conversation with our counsel liaisons, the judges did make a change to the fees for misdemeanors.
So we appreciate your feedback and the change was made. Because this fund is more stable at this point
and sustainable than the adult probation user fees, we are asking to move two full-time positions from
the adult probation user fees to this fund. It'd be an adult probation officer and a legal secretary.
And Anthony has done the projections and he believes that we can support these two additional positions
for 2026. And then cuts, we reduced office supplies by 2000
contractual by 5,000, equipment repair by 68%. So I don't know if you wanna, I mean, this is,
I asked him, are you sure two positions? And he feels pretty confident with his projections.
I have faith. Okay, Councilor Iverson. So when I'm looking at Gateway, I'm seeing that it's negative.
in this 4B. Now, that could simply be that things have been entered in one way or the other. But the
way that I'm seeing it in Gateway right now is a negative $35,000, negative $36,000. So can we support
two positions? And you're the expert here, so. Well, no, I'm not.
I would say our projected cash balance at the end of this year, keeping in mind that we're trying to
not spend anything out of this that we don't have to. A good example of that is the $12,000 that we
have currently budgeted in training travel. We've used the grant money to send people this year, so
I'm not touching that the rest of this year. And with what we have projected coming in, this would kind
of end the year at about $55,000.
which frankly is about the same as the previous one that we talked about, the community correction user
fees. This simply just really saves the APOF, which is in worse shape that we'll talk about here in
a minute. Did you have additional questions, Councilor Iverson?
Don't at this point I think for the purposes of what we're doing tonight I'm going to go with your numbers
and assume that something got messed up on gateway entry, but I so What we're doing tonight is not permanent
and we can make changes if we need to Okay any other all right and looking over here at some of lots
to see if anybody has any Okay all ready so
all those in favor moving forward with the department's 2026 court alcohol drug user fees fund budget
request uh signify by saying aye aye all those opposed same sign okay motion carries next up item f
council i move to open for discussion and review fund 2506-0000
problem-solving court user fees with the category requests of personnel at $2,692, supplies at $1,500,
services at $17,352, capital at $1,000 for a total budget of $22,544,000. Second. OK. Go ahead.
The Problem Solving Court Fund is a relatively small budget. Fees can only be used to support problem
solving court programs, staff salaries, and operating expenses. The fees are only paid by our drug court
participants. Mental health court and veterans court participants don't pay user fees. And the reentry
court does not charge fees if the participant's already in a community transition program because the
Department of Correction gives us money for those folks.
We have no full-time staff salaries in this budget. We reduced travel training by 7,000. Just to let
you know travel training is for problem-solving court not just our staff but also for the judge and
all problem-solving court team members and such as the veterans affairs representatives, treatment
representatives, prosecuting attorney, public defender, law enforcement reps. I don't know who else
but that's
basically the team members so we try to get them they they really want us to be able to go to the national
trainees because that's where you learn about what's really going on with problem-solving court and
so they we get grant money that helps us with that as well. Other cuts we reduce part-time salaries
by ten thousand dollars which is an eighty percent reduction
Special services by 500 contractual by 1000 office supplies by 500 drug testing by $12,000 and this
is due to we have a grant to we're using instant test cups for if the test is negative.
We just pour it out. If it's positive, then we send it off for confirmation. But these test cups have
helped reduce costs for our problem-solving court participants. And so we don't need all this testing
money. That's all I have for this budget. OK. All right. I'm looking over here to my left, seeing anybody
have any questions? No. Looking over to my right. No? OK.
All those in favor of moving forward with the Department's 2026 Problem Solving Court user fees filling
budget request signified by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign. Okay, motion carries.
Next up, item G.
Council I move to open for discussion and review fund 2508 dash 0000 adult probation user fees with
a category requests of personnel at eighty four thousand two hundred eighty six dollars supplies at
five thousand dollars services at twenty thousand two dollars capital at a thousand dollars for a total
budget one hundred and ten thousand dollars one hundred ten thousand two hundred twenty eight dollars
288 dollars excuse me okay
Okay adult we talked a little bit already about this being a sister budget to court alcohol and drug
services fee budget and they're interchangeable budgets in our mind and how we use them. These fees
can only be used by statute to supplement adult probation operating expenses.
the already talked about moving to full-time positions from this fun to the court alcohol and drug for
fun which we already did this at this point this leaves only one adult probation officer full-time position
in this fund. Increases we did put a small increase of $225 in part-time salaries I assume that's for
math purposes cuts we cut
supplement by a thousand contractual seven thousand equipment expense a thousand special services fifteen
hundred and equipment by a thousand and that's all i have for this okay looking to the left seeing if
anybody has anything looking to my right okay
All righty all those in favor of moving forward with the department's 2026 budget request for adult
probation user fees budget bond signify by saying aye aye all those opposed same sign all right motion
carries next up item h
Council, I move to open for discussion and review fund 2509-0000, juvenile probation user fees with
the category requests of personnel at $1,077, supplies at $500, services at $5,002, capital at $500
for a total budget of $7,079. Second.
The juvenile probation user fee fund is very small budget. It has no staff salaries and the fees can
only be used to supplement juvenile probation operating expenses by statute. A few years ago, you probably
remember if you were on the board that our judges eliminated all non-mandatory juvenile probation fees
and that includes juvenile probation user fees. So there are no new fees coming in. There's just a cash
balance there, but no new fees. So we use this
budget only when needed if other departmental funding sources have been exhausted or if we were having
a bad month with one of the funds that we can use this for. So we did make some cuts. We reduced part-time
salaries by 4,000, office supplies by 2,500, contractual by 3,500, equipment expense by 1,000, special
services by 500, and equipment by 1,000. So just bare bones.
And that's it. That's all I have. All right. Looking over here to my right, seeing if anybody has any
questions. Left? Nope. Okay. All right. All those in favor of moving forward with the 2026 department
request of the juvenile probation user fee signified by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign.
Motion carries.
Last item of the evening for the probation department is item I. Council, I move to open for discussion
and review fund 4916-0000. County offender transportation with a category requests of personnel at zero,
supplies at zero, services at 2500, capital at zero for a total budget of $2,500. Second. Okay.
I have to give my annual shout out to former county counselor, Eric Spoonmore. This was always his favorite
budget, probably because it was the last budget, but also this budget cracked him up for some reason.
So hello, Eric, and shout out to you. So this has no staff salaries, and the fund can only be used to
retake probationers who are in violation status from another state. And this fund has never been used
since its inception. It's a statutory fund.
the rate set and we did go ahead and cut it by 50 percent. I did talk to Matt Demings about the cost
to retake or extradite one person and he just said from his experience $1,500 so that's about what we
have if we have to retake one person which again it's never happened and hopefully knock on wood we
won't have to do that and that's it. I just yep I did it for you. All right anybody have any questions
on this item?
I was hoping you would give that annual check. All right. All those in favor of moving forward with
the department's 2026 budget request for the County Offender Transportation Fund signify by saying aye.
All those opposed, same sign. All right. Motion carries. And that concludes your budget. Thank you very
much. We appreciate it. And I have just a couple of minutes. I would like to say once again that I feel
very fortunate
for being part of the county government. Through the years, we have worked with the county council.
You have supported the board of judges and what we all do in trying to keep the people of Monroe County
safe, while we are also trying to help them improve their lives, get on with their lives. And as you
said, Councilperson Deckard, to not make what was a bad thing worse.
and this is a difficult year. You have a lot of difficult decisions to make and I want to thank you
for your time. I want to thank you for your patience and I want to really thank you for your willingness
to look at county government and try to do for the people of this county what is best for the people
of this county and I truly do believe that that is what you do and it's
difficult work. It's quite a commitment, but we do appreciate your willingness to work with us, to listen
to us, to come and see us so that we can all work together, which is what I've always believed county
government should be.
to communicate with each other and to try to just be supportive of the people who live in this county.
So I just wanted to thank you publicly for what you do and especially for your support of us. We try
to do specialized programming because we believe specialized programming is really what is very helpful.
to those people who find themselves in those circumstances. So thank you for your time and your patience
and your commitment. Well, we appreciate that. And we're all on the same team in its heart, just like
you all mentioned. And so we appreciate hearing that. It's not an easy job. And I think we all have
more gray hairs than we anticipated this year. I know for sure I do. But we appreciate hearing that.
So thank you.
Now you get to enjoy the rest of your night. Nice way to end the hearings. Thank you. Great. Counselors,
we are at the item, item 10 of our discussion this evening, which is our final budget discussion. And
so I am looking around to see if any council members would like to open any previous budget hearings from
the past several nights. Yes, Councilor Decker. Madam President, feel free to call this out if you think
this is not the best time for it or it won't help the body. But I would like us to reopen the county
council budget and take a look at that. Michelle, is that enough for me to say it that way? Oh, yeah.
Can you take us down to the
items where we ended last night with both line 331 and 33032 that Sophia Travis grant fund dollars and
BDC. So counselors, if I may, Madam President. Go ahead. Counselors, last night we had talked about
these two lines and obviously there was an intention in this initial draft
to recognize needs in the community around our not-for-profit community. And for anyone watching at
home, that's what Sophia Travis Service Grant funds do, which President Crosley chairs that and has
served on that for a number of years. Many of us have been on and off over the years. It's the best
service you get in committee assignments, because you get to see all the not-for-profits doing really
good work. The proposal
That we have in there now raise that considerably up to 250,000 and it did it on very tremendous strong
arguments and with the heart of truly Cheryl Munson.
Given all that we are asking of departments, I'm going to offer an alternative amendment on that here
in just a moment. I'll spell that out. But second to that, we also have the BDC line, which we have
consistently been a supporter now for a few years in supporting them beyond our membership.
fee with additional dollars we've had some kind of wrangling over the years try to get that out of county
government to stop stepping on our tail and red tape and many other things and that doesn't matter here
but for the sake of us showing and demonstrating what we're asking all departments to do and being mindful
to manage this I would like to offer an amendment
to the proposed lines that we adopted last night. And so I moved that line 331 Sophia Travis service
grant dollars be amended down to 190,000. I also would amend in the simultaneous in that move to amend
line 33032 from 35,000 down to 15,000 even. Second.
Okay, we got a motion and a second and we heard Councilor Deckard's reasoning for his amendments. Any
discussion on this? I see Michelle has her hand up. With regards to the BEDC, does the 15,000 include
the membership fee? Yes, it would retain the membership and then there would be additional dollars to
support that mission, which is
that's extremely vital to the community. Simultaneously, the amendment on the Sophia Travis grant dollars
would raise it above the 4% growth quotient that we had been targeting for a number of years to recognize
what's happening potentially in the community, but would also, I think, keep us within reasonable striking
distance of maintaining the budget controls that we're really asking everybody to do.
And the BDC is like our membership amount is 5925. Okay. All right. Anybody else have any discussion
on this? Yes, we'll go to Iverson and then I'll go to Henry. So last night, I very intentionally called
out Councilman Decker.
I don't know how he felt about that, but asking for what he offered was a compromise. And today we're
getting it. So I think that today's amendment is offered in a spirit of goodwill and also of fiscal
prudence. And so I'll be supporting this amendment tonight. Council Henry. Thank you, Madam President.
I wasn't here last night for this part of it due to conflicts, but I'm kind of here to get into this. I
I had an impression from past council's work that this particular line item is usually visited after
we had solved everything else in the budget. The argument that I think starting here given the other
cuts and things we need to look at in the county budget is interesting to me because if there
are opportunities to maintain a funding level for this, the Sophia Travis line item in light of
what's happened in Indianapolis over the past year. It's interesting to start with this one, I guess.
I would prefer to revisit this later as we work through the entire budget. But as I understand it, then,
this would not be a 4% but more like an 11% increase. Is that the math that you're suggesting there?
Yeah. And that's fair, I guess, given if that's the temperature of others on the body here.
continue to aim for 250 if it takes three years to get there. And I think given that, especially when
I look at other aspects of the budget, which have charitable activities going on out of the commissioner's
budget items, out of other items in county government, I don't have the same heartburn at this point.
The other reason for that is what we were asking for in cuts from departments was,
outlined in the president's letter to preserve cola at all costs. Some department heads have really
embraced that and given us some very strong budgets with cuts to supply and other activities. Other
department heads have not embraced that we are in a new normal. And so if this were cuts coming from
salary at the expense of, if we were
taking this grant program at the expense of salary, I'd have more heartburn about it, but it's not.
It's the residuals we see and the reversions and the padding and some line items that really jumps out
at me as to what we're after here and what we're cutting. So I'm just maybe offering that if this is
this year's compromise, I'm going to keep recommending we up this every year until we get it there.
As for the BEDC line, I brought this up, of course, when we were working on the tax abatement.
and offered an amendment to at least discuss the rationale behind the now unrestricted pass-through
of funding through a tax abatement to an organization we've identified.
the BDC for its $40,000 a year abatement. It passed through from SIMTRA that's going to get by this
body. And I did have an opportunity to hear council comments last night on CATS kind of tying it together
here. So I just kind of want a public answer on this because I tried to get it on abatement night. I
tried to get it through an amendment that was not seconded. Was the rationale behind that to reduce
this line item in our budget? I never got kind of an answer on it the last time we talked about it.
I put it in my list of things that I would like to see in the abatement, just to start a conversation.
And I recently found out that we are allowed to ask for that as part of the abatement. To me, it seemed
like a great opportunity to support the entity that had obviously been working so hard to bring us
the jobs, the industry, all of the good things that BEDC does. And yes, in my mind, I thought, wow,
how convenient because we've had some strife around this particular line item. So knowing that our budget
was going to be strained, my thought was, hey, this is a great way for the council
to show support for BEDC indirectly. And yeah, it was my intent to lower that line. If I may finish
with this, I don't really know what the good number is here then, because I guess the idea of an annual
review of the budget would mean that we have a conversation about the good work that BEDC does and we
validate it through a contribution or not.
kind of takes us out of that conversation now, but we'll never talk about BDC again in terms of that
opportunity for them to get that pass through except for maybe a more reduced contribution from our
account line. My worry was always the precedent of setting up an activity that favors one organization
in a way by law that's lawful, but as future abatements come in, how the council will determine that
opportunity for other organizations or other mechanisms. It didn't require it to go to an economic
development organization. It could have gone to any number of other organizations for our identification.
One could imagine an arts council or somebody that you're like a 1% fund for the county coming through
with a payment like that. And so I think I only raise it tonight because it's finally an opportunity
to talk about how we did that and what the long-term implications are for
that kind of organization getting that funding. I have nothing. I mean, I'm very much supportive of
the BDC. It's not about them. It's about what we did. So if I'm hearing it right to say we are now reducing
the item here because we really don't have to give that amount anymore. It's been handled by the abatement.
I just want that noted, I suppose. But that's my comment. And did you feel like you're satisfied in
that? That's where we are. OK.
I will go to Councilor Feidl and then I'll go back to Decker. So I understand maybe that this SIMTRA
money will not take a place until 2027, which leaves 2026 potentially much less than what it was that
came from the council. And so I understand that we might be able to find that out when Attorney Cockrell
comes back
or maybe Molly could talk about that now. I did email Mr. Cockerill. I'm waiting for a response. He
should be back on Monday. I looked through the MOU and I don't see a date specific. It just says the
annual fee. So I think it is fact dependent on when the tax abatement starts. So I'm not sure if it
starts this year or next year in 2027. I'm understanding with BEDC that they think it starts
in 2027 which would leave 2026 short comparatively. So that's my concern at this point. Okay all right.
Councilor Decker. Well one thing is I did have a conversation with the executive director of the BDC,
Jen Pearl, this evening to let her know my intentions on trying to do something in here that
might potentially affect their organization
When I said that to her, she offered what I think she's offered every council member here, probably
25 times in your career, that she's always willing to come in here and talk about any number of things,
do a PowerPoint presentation, or continue to just do the job of advocating. And so I think we could
do that. I think if we asked her to be in every meeting, she'd be in every meeting. But that's neither
beside the point. Councilor Feidl is correct on
the whatever goes on with the simple, simple abatement, which I believe also requires them to hit some
of their targets or that fault. That abatement starts to fall off just as abatements are designed to
do. Certainly are conditions to be made. Yeah. If they're not, if they're like, if the economy's not
working for them and jobs aren't happening, it's all goes away. It's not like it all goes away. There
are provisions and this is not one of those. Right. Right.
So I guess my point is in leaner times, if there's leaner times, a scale back here for that to keep
our activity with it, but not to abandon the activity with the BDC.
We will need that. Now, the thing I will also say, and I just this is I'm not trying to be the old counselor
here, but an observation from having been a counselor during the pandemic when time gets tough. And
if my eyes to the clouds or any indication, here's what happens. This is a budget for now. But then when time
time to get tough like it did during the pandemic. What happens is all the not for profit directors
that either apply for sewage via Travis funds or otherwise they will start trickling into both our office
into the commissioners and they'll say things like food banks going to need money or such and such is
going to need this or we're going to be short and we and other surrounding counties and usually those
other counties. I don't know what they do. I shouldn't speak to that. We will have to
revisit things in those kinds of circumstances, either with commissioners, funds, or otherwise. So anything
we do here around not-for-profit support does not mean it's exclusively limited in that time and season,
because that's what we saw about five years ago. And then ARPA probably minimized most of those
conversations, and that is now largely gone.
Can I ask one more thing? Sure. So is there a history on BEDC getting less during the pandemic? I'll
just ask that. We've been members and just paid a membership for a long, long time. To my knowledge,
I think we've only made this payment once, twice. Yeah. So the larger payment began in 23? I guess so.
I mean, 24.
Yeah, it's been unclear because we budgeted it, it was not expended because technically it was to go
through the commissioner's office and the commissioners did not sign.
So on the expend columns I see here, that's listed for County Council, it lists BEDC as 23 and 24 expended
35, 750 each year. 25 I believe has not been expended if I heard right. That's right, 25 says 59, 25.
Yeah, we do it for 26 and then 20, we did it for 25, right?
No, we did it higher. This says for 23 and 24. It's appropriated for 25 and it has not been expended
yet for the full amount. But 23 and 24 shows it was expended according to this. This year would be the
third. Third year. Yeah. So it's been twice pending expending for this year. Okay. Next year would be
the fourth.
So I'm going to kind of go back to Sophia Travis, because I do remember last year, I think it was Cheryl
and I that were trying to, we wanted to up it last year, and then we decided to bring it back down.
We collectively, I should say, agreed to bring it back down.
times are hard. And we literally we haven't heard the presentations just yet. And I can only imagine
what the presentations are going to be like. People are going to start looking to us for that. And I
understand if we all think that the 250 is a little high, I definitely would agree with Council Henry
that I would really like to see how we could get to that level of threshold, help us help
get to that level. I would also like to see if we could do some type of collaboration with joint grant
funding. That's a thing that I've been thinking about as well. So with that being said, I would like,
I mean, the 190 is a compromise. Ideally, I would like it to be higher.
But because Hashtag Thanks Indiana is in effect right now, we've got to make do with what we have to do.
It's a thought. And again, even whatever we do right now, if we come back to Council Henry's point,
you know, if we all kind of think about it and meditate and come back and we can always reopen this
back up and have another discussion again, whatever happens after tonight. So, you know, the 190 is
a compromise. I'd like to see it go.
a little more, but I'm willing to look at other things first. And I would like to see, after we've gone
through and looked at other opening of budgets and seeing what we can do there, maybe this is something
that we can come back and take a look at. President, I have a motion. Yes. I'd like to divide the question
to take a vote on this separately. OK. Second.
Okay, so we got a motion and a second to divide the questions. So we'll separate the motions, which
is the Sophia Travis to make that to 190,000 and the BDC line item to 15,000. So any further question
on that? All right, with this one, I think we need to do a roll call vote.
And we can do this one first. We can do Sophia and Travis. That's what I was going to ask. Yeah. Okay.
Voting would be the 190. Is that right? Okay. Thank you. The motion on the table is for $190,000. Councilor
Crossley. Yes. Councilor Iverson. Yes. Councilor Decker. Yes. Councilor Feidl. Yes. Councilor Wilts.
No. Councilor Henry.
Motion passes for two. All right. So we got that line item now at 190. And then now the call to question
for the BDC line item for 15,000. Councilor Wilts? No. Councilor Iverson? Yes. Councilor Decker? Yes.
Councilor Feidl? No. Councilor Crossley?
Yes. Councillor Henry. Yes. Motion passes for two. Okay. I think it's permanent yet. Correct.
Thank you. So we can keep chopping or we could just keep working. We'll have more answers later about
some of this. Okay. So those now I will
And Michelle, do I need to look to you to give us a new grand total on that? Okay. No change to the
personnel, no change to these supplies, no change to this. Oh, change to the service is it has a new
total of $269,800 for a new budget total of $645,221.
Okay. All right. And so next up, anybody else would like to open up any other budget? We need to vote.
We need to vote overall, right? Yes. Wait a minute. There was another step that was missing. Okay. So
I'll do a roll call vote on this one too.
Councillor Iverson? Yes. Councillor Deckard? Yes. Councillor Feidl? No. Councillor Wilz? Councillor
Henry? Yes. Councillor Crossley? Yes. Motion passes 4-2. Okay. Okay. Councillor Iverson, I see your
hand is raised.
So I'm not going to open to specific budgets, but one of the things that we've been talking about was
a line item in every single budget for training and travel. And this is one of the areas that we have
consistently gone through every budget and said, asked pretty difficult questions of people, where are
you going? Are you going far? Are you going near?
The issue is that line 30028, training travel, is in every budget, almost every budget. And the amounts
there range from $1,000 all the way up to tens of thousands of dollars. My question is, is this a viable
area where the council can find an ability to reduce the 2026 deficit?
Can I ask a question? So do we know what the total training and travel is for the whole county? I do
not have that number in front of me. It is knowable. I can tell you in a moment what is budgeted training
travel. For everything in the county, right? Yeah, that's in these budgets that we're looking at. Yes,
thank you. I can do that. Okay.
Sorry, hand, hi. Thank you, Madam President. Thank you, Councillor Iverson, for entertaining this. I
think there is. I think there are probably two ways to get at it. One feels like a straight cut, a percentage
off all. However, I think just pulling in my prior knowledge or daytime job, every time I've had to
travel on government dollars, it's always been with actuals proposed. And I think what we have is,
people who present at large budget to say, well, we think it's X, but we did discover in some of those
conversations when we asked, you know, last year you went to Long Beach, California, this year you're
going to Louisville, Kentucky, like there's a huge difference in that cost of airfare and, you know,
whether or not, as the judge even told us tonight, if the hotel is being picked up by the conference
or the state, and so it feels like,
I don't know if it's getting granularity from the departments to say, can you give us an estimate?
I mean, you know the cost of registration. You know where you're going. You know generally what airfare
would be to present actual dollars instead of five figure amounts, which end up getting reverted at
some point. So it's more of a mechanism of going back and saying, can you do that if you really want
to go this year? Or the only alternative in the time we have is percentage cut to say,
or to look at a zero-based approach of saying, what was your travel budget in 22? And that's your number
unless you can prove why you have to attain more this year. There's other ways to get at it. Each one's
more difficult. Yes, Michelle. So on the screen, through our budget projection, you can't see it and
I cannot enlarge it. That's the one thing about LAO. So we have an adoption line that that's what we're
working on.
The total training travel budgeted for 2026 through all funds is $511,751. Thank you. Then I'll go to
Councilor Wilks. I don't think
that given what I've heard about the number of departments and individuals that have required training,
that we can really make a one size fits all kind of decision. And I don't think we have time to have
everybody re-budget, you know, and figure out exactly what their costs are gonna be before Tuesday and
get that all figured out. So I think
Well, I mean, I guess over $500,000 for travel and training is a lot, but I think there are other places
in budgets to find a lot. I'm not totally opposed to looking at this, but when I see 500,
That's not what we're going to save because there's a lot of required. I mean, people are doing this
to get CEUs and to stay on top of what they do. And I do value that in addition to it being required.
So I don't know if this is the best place. I would maybe just offer from the liaisons I have that I'm
intrigued to go back in on those budgets for the liaison.
role, right? Like to know the departments I have to go back and talk to them about this. I think what
we saw in presentations were some discussions just like that where we know it's a CEU or a certification
or it is a benefit of employment that the county's helping provide that office to either do
those certifications through their job or to do it on the job, right? There are other line items that
are not as clear what
or why those are budgeted as large as they are. And I think all of us can think through the offices
we liaise with to find those. I mean, I think there's some that come to mind for me already that might
be easier to get at that have multiple lines of trouble that haven't been spent down. So it means we
might have to do the forensics work. Because otherwise, I think you're right. I mean, how do you blanket
cut somebody that we know has to go to something this year?
Go ahead. So you bring up the idea that maybe as liaisons, we should take some if I'm hearing you correctly,
take a few days here and think through our department's budgets and what can happen in them. I will
say there are exceptions to this, but with most of mine, I did that pretty heavily. I mean, as you saw
with like probation, that's what we did.
So there's gonna be like, I don't think I can go back through probation and change what we spent a lot
of time going through. I can probably, in fact, I need to talk to the jail because they have that one
fund that they're not, so I've got some of that and I'm not saying that's, I'm not gonna do it, but
there'll be some inconsistencies, I guess. I do, because I think,
would make some progress that way. And I do think, you know, it's the required versus, I don't know
if leisure is the right way of saying it, but you know, like really, you don't want to crack down on
those that are required for a certification and whatnot, but I do think that there is an opportunity
to kind of look at kind of chipping away for something.
I would look to council and say, if you've not already done it with your liaisons that you have is to
try to over the next few days, really try to see if there is a plea. But again, we do have other ways
that we can make significant changes to the budget to kind of hammer some other things out. But this
is one step of getting to that point.
So, yes, Council, I understand. And Madam President, one of the other ways that we've talked about in
all the budgets, and this is a line that's in all the other budgets. And again, I'm trying to look at
things that are equitable. I'm trying to look at things that are going to impact everyone, every single
department, not just picking on one or two departments, is the postage line.
We have talked about this over and over again. We have talked about it in terms of the auditor's office
picking up the postage for claims. We've talked about it in terms of some departments have postage machines,
some offices, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so, Michelle, do you have the postage line in LAO,
same as we looked at for training and travel? Yes. So it's in one, two, three, four, five, six, seven funds.
It totals $193,756. And that's also a lot too. And so I guess the same question goes before council
is how we've got an $8 million deficit. We've got to figure this out before we adopt the budget. Is this
a viable pathway to tackling that $8 million deficit. Part of this seems for postage, it would in my
mind sort of inhibit the county from doing its business. If you are required, maybe some are required
to actually send them things, you know, I mean, where would that. But I do think
Yes, like we heard yesterday with the treasurer who said that she kept her postage pretty high. And
I think she might have increased it because of all the things that she's doing with property taxes and
mail outs. And so I think that right there, like she made a case for herself. But I do think that there
are some places where we can kind of go back and revisit that for sure is
because if you go back and and that's my homework to myself this weekend is to kind of go back and look
at you know what was budgeted per year versus your actual and sometimes and in previous years in this
year especially we've looked at where they budgeted 50,000 and then we see that it's like $1,200 that
has been used and so I can't really justify that
But I do think that we can justify those where our jobs to send out claims and other things we can definitely
do. Again, that's a small piece of the pie, but any little thing helps right now. Just like we've been
telling all the departments, any little thing will help us get to this level. Yes, Councilor Decker.
One thing, and I hate to keep coming back to this same message that I had last night and now a few times,
but again,
It's all these things are questions of values. What do you value more. And so, for example, we had a
really extended conversation about our BDC funding and our Sophia Travis grant fundings. And we've also
over the years had very extended conversations about those operating pads, which in
theoretical concepts, these minimums, this minimum resolution we've done, this is a good housekeeping,
looks good, it is a beautiful, pretty thing. However, the state continues to chop the forest at the
bottom of the trees. And so for us, it may be that we say for the community we are elected for, the
value we choose is in those two areas,
versus the operating minimum. Yesterday, not to pick on the auditor's office, Carly, this isn't at you,
but you all have a digitization line that's $80,000. I guess my question is, do I need to send mail
out or do I need to digitize that? And I bet you everybody and their sister could come in here and make
a compelling case, but we as a community will have to say, operating minimums, digitization,
or is it hitting the cola, or is it hitting a lower cola, or is it, what is it doing to do that? And
that's literally sort of the question. I feel like sometimes we're kind of going after a mice here,
a mouse there, but the reality is some of these things may not be conveniences to say we're operating
like that with those minimums. It's just, it literally is what that is.
We're trying to do a COLA. We're trying to do a minimum. We're trying to do support for not-for-profits.
There are some counties that don't do that. The biggest complaint I had in 2020 when we went through
the you need to defund and fund alternatives is you're late to the conversation. We've been funding
alternatives here for all sorts of things we heard about in courts tonight. And so it's,
We have lived into those values, but it may be that not every value gets done. I just worry that postage
is not the one there that's gonna move that much. Councilor Iverson. I was gonna move on. Did you wanna
speak to this? Only briefly, Madam President. Yes. Yeah.
I agree with Councillor Decker on it. I think we've defined what the value is to the community. We said
in the letter that we are prioritizing COLA over just about everything else. And that number's been
harder to attain since I think we sent the letter in summer. And our peer governments in the county
have taken, they're coming in at a lower rate than what we aimed for.
Right? So if we've said COLA is it, and again, some department heads, I think, made a really good effort
to try to meet that, and I think others maybe did not, that's the value we just telegraphed. And so
that's really the big decision, right? If we are going to continue to aim for that, then I think Councilor
Deckard's touched on the right
cadence of where we go next for the real cuts. And those come through things like, and I'm just going
to list some ideas, because I think we're in the idea section, right? It's freezing new spending and
setting the supply line at whatever the last year's supply line was in all accounts. It's things like
looking at the insurance cost sharing. Instead of an 80-20, it could be a 75-25, which would,
by the way, generate about a million and five in savings. It would be looking at the overtime, all overtime,
which would be about $700,000, which is my estimate. I don't know what Lyle says lately. And then there's
the large capital. We have a mobile unit, a street sweeper that has been presented. Those dollars should
be moving into bonds to buy those items instead of coming out of the general fund. If we're going to
gain for cola, those are the bigger fish. I mean, that's a million and a half in vehicles in those two
or quite a bit, right? Vacant positions have been sitting open for over six months. Why are those still
budgeted in some departments? So I think if I'm committed to the idea of the coal at all costs, given
what's going on in the economy, but to get there, there's a lot more that has to move. And those are
just some of my ideas there, but I'll yield back.
All right, thank you, Councilor. I want to pick up on one of your big ideas. And I think Mr. Deckard,
you also I think are spot on in terms of looking at bigger items. Michelle, do you have the numbers
for the capital categories for each for all departments? And again, we're looking for unity here. We're
looking for items that affect all departments. So here we go. Look at this number.
Okay, so this is across all funds and granted some of these funds only have capital item, you know kind
of thing like for and I'm just going to use rainy day. For example, we have a million in there for that,
but we have its capital line items are $4,313,532.
And I will remind counsel that our budget deficit is $8 million. So what I heard from colleagues is,
how much of this can we move into existing GO bonds? How much of this can we move into a 2026 GO bond?
How much of this can we move into? That's the type of conversation I think we should be having.
And my other question is, are you budgeting for a want or an absolute need? You know, can something
be kicked down the road? You have done that with some departments going, if you can get by one more
year, let's remove it from the budget. You're good. You're fine. Order in the court.
Is the four million figure that you just stated, does that include like the one million in the rainy
day and things in like CUMCAP? Yes, things in CUMCAP. There's also the, it's a 490, which is the West
Side Tif. Right, right, right. So yes, I would have to go through. It's not quite as a miracle as it
sounds like. Right, I'd have to go through and remove some things that
but that's the grand total of all the capital, so. Okay, anybody else? Yes, Councilor Decker. And again,
I will say I'll offer this out to folks as well as a potential. It may be, it may be that if this is
what this looks like and we're not finding it somewhere else and we'll say something controversial.
So every department head,
Email send them my way. Here we go. It may be that for travel to go to what counselor Henry saying it
may be that we may need to freeze travel.
I know that is controversial. I know that is something that may not be, but it's it either is that or
it is not that. And again, as we start to kind of narrow down what those priorities are, we kind of
have to look at that. And I don't like that. I mean, I literally what I do is educate and do education
of people who make time for that. I preach this literally. That is one of the three jobs I have. But
it may be what it is because ultimately you're figuring it out. And again, I just think if we kind of
go back to even, I know departments have already been up here, but if there's something else that is
needing to not be what it is, certainly we'll take some volunteer things, but that could be.
That may be beyond what is absolutely essential for, I must have this to do this and or it will not
work. Yeah. Yeah. So on this, the timing is tricky because we need to look at the existing geo bonds
and find what matches those. And we need to look at what can fit inside of a forthcoming geo bond. And
then what do we do?
with those capital lines that don't fit those two categories? And again, is it a conversation that Michelle
raised about wants versus needs? Or is it a one-year freeze? These are the types of analysis I think
we need to be doing. And I think we need to be doing them fairly quickly. So we have information from the
commissioners office about the existing old bond balances. I'm not sure that's quite enough because
I get the feeling that there's some conversation that might need to happen around that. So we've got
information that we can work with on that. I think throwing things just willy-nilly into a bond, I mean,
I don't mind going to the three million that we usually do because that keeps things the same way. I
know that things have changed in how we do it. But just because we can fund longer doesn't mean we have
to fund more. But that's a discussion probably for another meeting. There are some other things that
I've been thinking about. For instance, this might
not be super popular, but we have money from the food and beverage tax. Why are you pointing? Oh, sorry.
No, no, sorry. Keep going. Keep going. And we have requests that fit under what food and beverage tax
is being collected for.
has requested some things, there might be something from aviation. If you didn't get picked up on your
mic, I'm not just trying, I'm not repeating. Councilor Iverson said that, yep. My bad. Pull your mic
to your face. Bingo card. I think looking at money that we have, and that's a whole other can of worms
when we start thinking about didn't,
Councillor Hawke say something, or maybe it was Henry, I can't remember about that. Yeah. It is late.
The ED lit. Well, yeah, I'm sorry, Madam President. Yeah, it was the it was in the context of the ED
lit regarding the inability to fund the as proposed jail lawfully at the rate that to buy the facility.
So if that is in fact unattainable, sequestered funds in a way that we could be using them for immediate
economic development. Right. And I'm not as enthralled with that idea personally, but it's an example
of what I'm talking about. I think we might need a little bit creative. And food and beverage is one
of those ideas. I did want to explore the overtime discussion. Yeah, yeah.
Kim Shelley, do you have those numbers pulled up? Because multiple council members asked for it. A big
topic over the past several nights. So we have, and this is just the funds. It looks like there's about
seven, eight, eight funds that have overtime in them.
So then the total for 2026 is $488,741 of overtime. Now granted, you've got like the jail, you've got
the sheriff deputies and highway overtime in that as well. Oh, sorry.
I'm going to go to counselors, Iverson, and then Eric. Sorry. Go ahead. It is important that we raise
the different departments that are showing up in this report, because we do have to be careful about
this, because there are departments. So we just have to be careful with this. And I know that there
is work being done on trying to make clarity
for that, and I think that's going to be part of an upcoming conversation. Council Henry. Thank you.
I was waving my hand like that because, you know, Peter, they kind of look the same at an angle. I need
to shave my beard. So, yes, take it a little farther. I mean, and it probably is a little farther with
also potential for hiring freeze too. We're talking about, you know, if there are first responder personnel
that are drawing on overtime for the purposes of
life-saving activities in the community, right? Like that is a different kind of overtime than when
a department head admits that they're using overtime to supplement the salary of an employee, which
was admitted to in this room. So those are very different uses of overtime that while they might be,
and then we might be back to the parsley or the garnish on the plate here, but that's something to consider.
But then I don't want to leave where Councilor Wiltz was taking this piece, but overtime,
for first responders and is one thing, hiring freeze for non-essential or careful with that term, for
employees that are not in the first responding categories as well are involved in the criminal justice
system is another thing to consider. What does a hiring freeze look like on top of the overtime? Because
those are qualities, those are qualified categories.
But so I think the overtime doesn't need to look too, but we have some really clear examples where we
could cut that. And then ones that are more opaque, I think. Agreed. OK. Anybody else over here have
any other questions or comments to add to overtime? Michelle, did you have anything else to add to overtime?
So over time, I will say that on each one of these topics, what I can do is I can print an individual
report that will show you which departments
have like over time like we're looking so here's yeah so here's general fund but if you open it up per
this report you know it will tell you clerk's office you know well auditor has zero but sheriff prosecutor
so what i'll do is i will simplify this for you so you can see which departments have it and what the
amounts are on each one of these topics so also we also have been getting
from the auditor's office. Overtime expense. Overtime reports and comp time reports. And so I think
we should definitely incorporate those into our thinking. I can't remember if we've talked about this
in this room, or if I've talked about it with maybe Councilor Crossley. But the idea of all over
how overtime lines can be used is something we could consider just to maybe get it control over some
of that and I'm not sure like I need to think through that a little bit because I certainly don't want
to micromanage but at the same time it it seeming almost necessary looking at some of those reports
I guess what I'll say. I mean, over time, yeah, over time and comp time, if it's good data, our symptoms
of a problem, which is we don't have enough FTEs in that department doing things. Or it could be the
other things we've already talked about, right? So I agree with you that we need a little more granularity
to get at that. We may discover some well overworked departments in the county versus others that may
be creative with their use of this particular line.
So I would definitely have a question about, is there an overtime policy in the policy book, personal
policy book? Is there one? Yeah. And so who authorizes overtime? Where does that come from? I feel like
an official or department head. OK. So that's already there. So we know who's making it happen. Yeah.
OK. All right. Thank you. All right. Anything else?
on this conversation. On general question, since I'm so new, I'm sorry. Yeah. So are there other categories,
maybe Kim Shell could tell us, are there other categories like what we've just been talking about that
are universal that we might need to look at and we haven't thought of? Maybe that's a question I have.
Harley, would you have an idea about that? That recommend something?
raising my hand over there. One of the areas where there is a potentially significant reduction is in
the health department. We haven't mentioned that tonight, but we know that there is a significant change
to be made. Well, I should say there's at least one significant change to be made there, and there could
be more. And I think we have a report from the auditor's office
unutilized and underutilized grant funds in the health department that can be explored. We have so much
information, you all. We do. It's not for a lack of information. It's time and really kind of analyzing
it because information isn't everything. So I think that to take
Carly off the hook a little bit with that question. They've provided a lot to us and it's the auditor's
job to check the accounts and make sure they're working. And they've gone above and beyond in really
doing that. But I think we've got what we need there. I'm gonna go to Henry and then I'm gonna go back
there. Maybe offer one more for the good of the evening. So it might not be
like Peter and I were just talking about clothing, it's actually office supplies, isn't it?
It's the staples. So is there a way to pull the office supplies, that line generally, right? Because
I'm sure that number might be surprising, but that would be my last offer to the... So I might have
to put you on the spot, Carly, for this one, because I know we've consolidated a lot of different lines
that were labeled supplies.
So to me, I hear office supplies, I think paper clips and ballpoint pens, but I think now office supplies
can mean a lot of different things. And while I totally agree, it seems to be just kind of this catchall,
it would be good for us to maybe know everything that goes into what we call the office supply line,
or at least all the different types of things.
Not everything. That would be awful. For office supplies, the only two lines that were combined for
that combination, it was office supplies and then comm supplies. What was it? What about other supplies?
What is? That wasn't addressed in this combination. We focused a lot on the. What is calm?
I mean, what does that mean? I think it's short for commissioners, but there was a lack of understanding,
which is why we buy you to cover it. Okay. There are so many duplications. We had to start somewhere
and that wasn't where we. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. So Michelle, are you still looking at them? Okay.
This is just office supplies line. And just the office supplies line is $189,245.
I would like some guidance, Adam President. Go for it. No, no, no. No, go for it. I'm actually trying
to calculate all this sense. I think you're right, Council Member Wilts. We are swimming in a sea of
data. And I think one of the things that we should do is do what Council Member Deckard suggested, which
is prioritize
by the amount that we can chunk out this deficit. So instead of looking at how much has been on paper
clips, maybe we can be looking at these really big ticket items like capital categories or some of the
other like the really big items in terms of like the ones that where we can move them out of the general
fund or we can move them into like, you know, I think that's the next step is prioritizing.
So ideally, what I think is you start off big. And so we look at the capital expenses, since we already
identified this evening that that's about a little over $4 million, $4.3, that we can look at, trying
to look at what we could use in the general bond or the GEO bonds and that list that Ms. or Angie Purdy
sent to us to figure out what we can do in that. And I just was trying to add up the train and travel,
the postage,
the overtime lines and the supplies line we just got, that's over $1.3 million there. So that being
said, although I know those are small numbers, eventually all that will add up. And so this is like
the most challenging budget session to date, I don't know, at least for me.
And because we got a lot that is against us, but we have staff that has given us lots and lots and lots
of spreadsheets and informations and lots of emails with a lot of data. And we have a meeting on Tuesday
and we are needing to look at all of these things that we have been given.
that we've done over the past three weeks as we have gone over budget. Um and listen to the request.
And so. I would ask. That we take all the things that we've listened to tonight and the previous night
and really kind of identify what it is that we want to look at again. The train and travel the postage
the capital
just saying those are discussions, nobody at me. A higher end phrase, what that would look like,
the supplies, moving some things around in the health department, that was a big thing to go back and
look at. And we definitely have to go back and look at that. Again, the state has pulled our hands behind
our back and made us say uncle, and now we're saying it. And so since we have to do that, trying to
be creative, and then we also are hearing, we lost a contract.
that we've had for you know 60 years so I don't know what's happening there and I really would like
to know more information on that and you know hopefully we can get into that on Tuesday but Council
we got a lot of homework that we got to do over the next few days and so
You know, departments have some departments have done you know what they can and some departments need
to do a little bit more. So if anybody is going to go back and watch this and your department that you
think that you can do a little bit more.
help us help you, help us obtain and continue to keep our near and dear county employees. Because obviously
what my goal as the council president is, I really want to get to the COLA and see what we can do. We've
already added it to the budgets because in previous years, we've thought about it and done it afterwards.
And so I really want to see what that looks like.
that is a big thing for me. So that being said, oh yeah, and self insurance, that is also a very big
thing. There's 1.25 million dollars. Yeah, that's a lot and it's not getting any cheaper. So yes, Councilor
Decker. If we had any number that indicated to us
what the amount is to hit the minimum, those minimum balances. I know the one that keeps saying it,
what the amount is to hit the minimum balance or is it to hit the budget? I feel like those are two
things that are maybe interspersing with each other and I don't think it's
I don't think it's fair to the people of this county nor the community to do that. Again, I think it's
a beautiful, good housekeeping thing, but we're literally getting in here and saying, not that ball
point pin, not do this and all that. And I just don't know that we have that luxury for that at all.
And I'm not saying, here's what I'm not saying. I'm not saying reverse years of good stewardship that
got us through a pandemic, build up a rainy day fund and have that. But I do know this, government's
not a bank and the money, if the legislature acted with the property tax caps the way that they did
because people had the perception that money went in and then we were burning it somewhere, then what
will make that worse is to build up a bank
that the money's not going towards a purpose. And again, it may be that we get legislation that says
you can't do that. After four years, they said, you must do that. So again, we're like, it's like over
here's a 1990 goal. Here's a 1981. This one's conflicting with today's things. It may be that we've
got to be really, really serious about that because I think it's, I think, I don't want that to get
lost here. Sorry. You're fine. All right.
So if we don't have anything else that we need to add, again, Council, I really advise us to really
do our homework over the course of the next few days, really try to get creative and come back on Tuesday,
September 16th, starting at 5 p.m. in the Nightingale Room. So coming back and doing that.
you know, what I would like to say in light of all of this, I just want to give a special thanks to
all the departments that have come through and given us their department request. I definitely want
to give major kudos and thanks to the auditor's team, Carly and Bri.
I would like to thank Miss Molly Turner King, our new person in our office. This is her first budget
season, and it's been interesting. I can only imagine. And of course, definitely Miss Kim Schell for
putting or helping with all of this. We again, this we got a lot that we have to think about. And I
just ask that if we stay ready, we don't have to get ready and come prepared on Tuesday.
to discuss. I have one other thing that I would like to say, which Carly just reminded me. If you guys
are thinking about doing stuff into food and beverage and or with the edit fund, that also needs to
be included in this budget so that we can get it into Gateway and advertise.
that will have to be a decision on that Tuesday. Otherwise, you would have to come back and do additional
appropriations after the first of the year. That sounds good. And it is, I mean, I just, sorry, I know
that it wasn't on my, but I don't want, I want to be able to make that decision without- Pressure. Yeah,
without thinking, you know, that we have to get
get the paperwork or we haven't gotten the advertising done in the right way, we need to do it correctly.
But that in particular, I mean, to mention both of those two income taxes, we would need to consult
with some other folks who work in this building before we could do that. I mean, and that's, so I don't
know that we can figure that out entirely. And bond counsel. Oh yeah, yeah.
And I'm gonna pass the, oh, Carly has her hand up. I just wanna say it's not just those, I didn't mention,
yeah. It's any fund, so like the auditor's fund that we increased last night, we're gonna go ahead and
increase that advertisement. So if you want anything, because we exceeded the original amount that we
planned to advertise.
If you plan to exceed what is advertised right now, we can get those plugged into Gateway and increase
advertisements where needed. I believe the deadline to enter that into Gateway is the 16th. So if we...
17th. Nevermind, I seem corrected. Because we're having that... I did it strategically. We're having
a meeting on Tuesday. We have to put everything into Gateway on Wednesday. That is not a lot of time.
No, it's not.
And one other thing that I was going to mention, too, that Councilor Woods brought up that we heard
through YSB is the special purpose lit. That's also something that is we heard tonight that, you know,
we might need to look at that. And so that's also something that we can talk about on the 16th as a
whole, too. So it's late, but we still don't go as long as city council. But that being said,
I was just going to say we got a lot. And so I want to give people their time back this evening to rest,
reset, and come back to restore and do more on the 16th.
And with that being said, I appreciate every single last council members up here that have done a lot
of sleepless nights and a lot of heartburn going through meeting with your departments. I appreciate
that. Even Councilor Hawke, her absence, we definitely missed her today. But that being said, we are
adjourned. Thank you.