WEBVTT 00:00:00.226 --> 00:00:09.841 - Good evening, everyone. I will call to order the April 1st meeting of the Board of Zoning Appeals. Ms. 00:00:09.841 --> 00:00:19.829 - Nestor-Gellin, would you start us off by calling the roll? Sure. Mayor Clements here. Yeah. Tech Services, 00:00:19.829 --> 00:00:29.630 - could you turn up the audio, please? Is that any better? Okay. Okay. Good. Ms. Nestor-Gellin. Skip Daly. 00:00:30.146 --> 00:00:39.707 - present. Pamela Davidson? Here. Guy Loftman? Here. Jeff Morris? Here. Okay, five members in person in 00:00:39.707 --> 00:00:46.174 - a quorum. Could you please introduce the evidence for tonight? Sure. 00:00:46.274 --> 00:00:52.766 - I'd like to introduce the following items into the evidence. The Monroe County Development Ordinance 00:00:52.766 --> 00:00:59.643 - as adopted and amended. The Monroe County Zoning and Subdivision Control Ordinance as adopted and amended. 00:00:59.643 --> 00:01:06.521 - The Monroe County Comprehensive Plan as adopted and amended. The Monroe County Board of Zoning and Appeals 00:01:06.521 --> 00:01:12.948 - Rules of Procedure as adopted and amended. And the cases that were legally advertised and scheduled 00:01:12.948 --> 00:01:15.198 - for a hearing on tonight's agenda. 00:01:17.282 --> 00:01:25.209 - Sorry. No, go ahead. I will motion to approve the evidence. I will second that. It's been moved and 00:01:25.209 --> 00:01:33.612 - seconded to approve the introduction of evidence. A vote yes is a vote to approve. Skip Daly? Yes. Pamela 00:01:33.612 --> 00:01:42.174 - Davidson? Yes. Guy Lofman? Yes. Jeff Morris? Yes. Margaret Clements? Yes. Motion is approved, five to zero. 00:01:42.658 --> 00:01:49.034 - Okay, and for our agenda tonight, we've had a recommendation from staff that we move item number four 00:01:49.034 --> 00:01:55.284 - under new business up to item number one under new business due to the petitioner coming forward to 00:01:55.284 --> 00:02:01.848 - request a continuation tonight. So could we get a motion to approve that change to the agenda? So moved. 00:02:01.848 --> 00:02:08.286 - You have a second? I will second that. Okay, it's been moved and seconded to approve tonight's agenda. 00:02:08.386 --> 00:02:15.985 - with one change, which is item number four, VAR-26-6, which is the Companelle residential storage structure 00:02:15.985 --> 00:02:23.513 - variance to chapter 811 on West Williams Road. That will be moved up to the first item under new business. 00:02:23.513 --> 00:02:30.549 - And since the other item under old business is continued, it will be the first thing that is heard. 00:02:30.549 --> 00:02:37.726 - A vote yes is a vote to approve the amended agenda as stated. Pamela Davidson? Yes. Guy Loftman? Yes. 00:02:38.722 --> 00:02:46.373 - Jeff Morris. Yes. Margaret Clements. Yes. Skilly. Yes. Motion is approved, five to zero. I'd like to 00:02:46.373 --> 00:02:54.328 - move that we approve the minutes from the February 4th and the March 4th meetings of the Board of Zoning 00:02:54.328 --> 00:03:02.207 - Appeals. I'll second that. It's been moved and seconded to approve the February 4th and March 4th, 2026 00:03:02.207 --> 00:03:07.358 - meeting minutes. A vote yes is a vote to approve. Guy Loftman. Yes. 00:03:08.770 --> 00:03:18.750 - Jeff Morris? Yes. Margaret Clements? Yes. Skip Daly? Present. Pamela Davidson? Yes. Motion is approved, 00:03:18.750 --> 00:03:20.094 - four to zero. 00:03:21.730 --> 00:03:28.965 - Okay, we have no administrative business tonight and the only item under old business VAR-25-52A has 00:03:28.965 --> 00:03:36.486 - been continued to May 6th, 2026. So we'll move on to new business and the first item has been continued, 00:03:36.486 --> 00:03:42.718 - which is VAR-25-49 has been continued to August 5th of 2026. So we will move on to the 00:03:43.714 --> 00:03:51.824 - Next item that we approved to go first, which is VAR-26-6. This is the Campanella residential storage 00:03:51.824 --> 00:03:59.854 - structure varies to Chapter 811. So my understanding is the petitioner would like to make their case 00:03:59.854 --> 00:04:07.486 - for us to extend this to a future meeting. Tech Services, if you could unmute Bethany Robinson. 00:04:11.714 --> 00:04:20.750 - My name is Robinson. Tech Services is going to promote you so you can unmute. Okay, can you hear me? 00:04:20.750 --> 00:04:30.055 - Yeah, if you could raise your right hand, state your name and then. Do I need to turn my? Nothing about 00:04:30.055 --> 00:04:39.360 - the truth. Do you want my camera on? If you're able to, yes, please. Okay, yeah, hang on just a second. 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:40.702 - Okay, hang on. 00:04:44.034 --> 00:04:53.035 - Oh my gosh, sorry. Okay, is that working? Yes, can you raise your right hand and. The truth. To tell 00:04:53.035 --> 00:05:01.946 - the whole truth, the truth, I'm sorry, I was cutting out. The whole truth. Do you swear to tell the 00:05:01.946 --> 00:05:11.036 - truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Yes, I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and 00:05:11.036 --> 00:05:13.086 - nothing but the truth. 00:05:16.674 --> 00:05:24.255 - as to why you would like to continue your petition. Yes and I apologize for not being there in person 00:05:24.255 --> 00:05:31.687 - and I have some lovely shingles going on so anyhow we would like to continue. We just got the staff 00:05:31.687 --> 00:05:39.268 - report back recently and have been in discussion with the staff and with that we're discussing all of 00:05:39.268 --> 00:05:45.214 - our options before I would present in May to decide exactly what we're going to 00:05:45.314 --> 00:05:53.455 - Do we're discussing moving the property line, combining lot one and lot two to satisfy staff's request 00:05:53.455 --> 00:06:01.834 - before we present. OK, thank you. Do you have a date in mind or a month in mind that you wish to continue 00:06:01.834 --> 00:06:09.975 - this too? As soon as possible, I don't see any reason that we couldn't do it in May unless you all see 00:06:09.975 --> 00:06:14.718 - a reason. OK, Mr. Jelen, will the May agenda work for this? 00:06:15.298 --> 00:06:22.446 - Yes. Okay. Okay. Thank you, ma'am, and I hope you feel better soon. All right. Thank you. Turning back 00:06:22.446 --> 00:06:29.733 - now to members of the BZA, do we have a motion to continue this to the May board zoning appeals meeting? 00:06:29.733 --> 00:06:36.950 - I move we continue variance 26-6, the Campanella residential storage structure variance to chapter 811, 00:06:36.950 --> 00:06:39.934 - hopefully to the May 2026 meeting. Second. 00:06:42.402 --> 00:06:51.639 - It's been moved and seconded to continue case VAR-26-6, the Campanella residential storage structure 00:06:51.639 --> 00:07:00.785 - variance to May 6th, 2026, the next Board of Zoning Appeals meeting here in this room at 5.30 PM. A 00:07:00.785 --> 00:07:10.022 - vote yes is a vote to approve the continuance. Margaret Clements? Yes. Skip Daley? Yes. Guy Loftman? 00:07:10.022 --> 00:07:12.126 - Yes. Jeff Morris? Yes. 00:07:12.738 --> 00:07:20.986 - Thank you. Thank you. Pamela Davidson. Yes and I want to thank them for working with staff to accommodate 00:07:20.986 --> 00:07:28.923 - and work things out and bring us a more finished product. I really appreciate that. Thank you. Motion 00:07:28.923 --> 00:07:37.016 - is approved five to zero to continue. Thank you. Okay so moving on to the next item on the agenda. This 00:07:37.016 --> 00:07:41.918 - is CDU dash 25-10. This is the Holloway Homes LLC Agricultural 00:07:43.042 --> 00:07:52.833 - I just interrupt for just one minute. If there are people here who are attending either for the Donovan 00:07:52.833 --> 00:08:02.812 - buildable area on Rockport Road or for Blackwell on South Old State Road 37 or the Campanella residential 00:08:02.812 --> 00:08:04.318 - storage unit on 00:08:04.418 --> 00:08:11.137 - Williams Road, those cases will not be heard tonight. So you're free to leave or you're welcome to stay 00:08:11.137 --> 00:08:17.597 - to hear the other cases that maybe you're not interested in. But I just wanted to make sure that we 00:08:17.597 --> 00:08:24.509 - were clear about that. Yeah. Thank you for clarifying that. Thank you. Okay. Mr. Brown. And as to Holloway 00:08:24.509 --> 00:08:31.486 - Homes, am I correct that this is the staff recommends approval with conditions? With conditions. Yeah. Yes. 00:08:31.746 --> 00:08:40.974 - That being the case, I'm considering moving... Because it's conditions, I would... Well, I think if 00:08:40.974 --> 00:08:49.740 - the petitioners accept the conditions, then I think we have a history of saying if they accept 00:08:49.740 --> 00:08:55.646 - the conditions, then we can proceed with the shortened version. 00:08:58.914 --> 00:09:07.545 - Go ahead and find out if there's numbers of the public here for comment. We have a procedure we sometimes 00:09:07.545 --> 00:09:16.095 - do where I'll move the previous question and we'll do a dispose of this case relatively quickly if there 00:09:16.095 --> 00:09:24.238 - is nobody in the public who is opposed to the petition and if the petitioner is willing to agree to 00:09:24.238 --> 00:09:27.902 - the conditions that the staff has set forth. 00:09:29.122 --> 00:09:38.130 - And can I add one more thing, number three, if the petitioner wishes to state something about their 00:09:38.130 --> 00:09:47.408 - case, because then it's on the public record. So maybe that is a number three reason they might choose 00:09:47.408 --> 00:09:57.406 - to do that. If they want to, that would be sensible too. So if there's no objection, I would. Yes. Yes, it is. 00:09:59.650 --> 00:10:06.797 - Okay, you have you you have objection to it. Okay, very good. Well, we will proceed without a the trunk 00:10:06.797 --> 00:10:13.738 - without the shortened and thank you for bringing this to our attention and we'll we'll listen to the 00:10:13.738 --> 00:10:20.611 - staff now. Thank you. So the petitioner is proposing to establish a wedding and event venue here in 00:10:20.611 --> 00:10:27.689 - 25th and 2025. The petitioner filed a use determination with the county under USC 2541. During review, 00:10:27.689 --> 00:10:28.926 - it was found that 00:10:29.026 --> 00:10:35.974 - One of the proposals the petitioner had for this property was an agricultural event center large, and 00:10:35.974 --> 00:10:43.059 - under the CDO, an agricultural event center is a conditional use, so this approval is required for that 00:10:43.059 --> 00:10:50.007 - to be permitted. Chapter 850 defines agricultural event center as follows, an event center located on 00:10:50.007 --> 00:10:53.822 - a lot that is primarily used for agricultural purposes. 00:10:54.018 --> 00:11:01.120 - includes areas where indoor and or outdoor activities such as weddings, receptions, banquets, corporate 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:08.154 - events and other such gatherings are hosted in return for compensation. The use does must be accessory 00:11:08.154 --> 00:11:15.120 - to a primary agricultural use and per the petitioner the primary agricultural use will be a Christmas 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:19.422 - tree farm and a flower farm. And the discussion portion follow 00:11:19.522 --> 00:11:27.410 - goes through the findings of facts that were present in the staff report. Would the board like me to 00:11:27.410 --> 00:11:35.375 - go through them? I don't believe you need to. I'm familiar with them. All right. And here are maps of 00:11:35.375 --> 00:11:43.341 - the areas, such as the location area and as well as the zoning map, as well as the comprehensive plan 00:11:43.341 --> 00:11:45.918 - map and the site conditions map. 00:11:47.458 --> 00:11:55.427 - This is a map that I want to bring to the board's attention because it reserves an area that is marked 00:11:55.427 --> 00:12:03.241 - as prime agricultural land. Specifically, the area where my mouse is is roughly where the petitioner 00:12:03.241 --> 00:12:11.210 - is proposing to locate the event center, and that is considered prime agricultural land per the county 00:12:11.210 --> 00:12:12.990 - development ordinance. 00:12:21.762 --> 00:12:31.251 - I apologize, I'm trying to find it. Yes, here we go. An event center in the AGR zone and its associated 00:12:31.251 --> 00:12:40.557 - areas such as parking, decks, and patios shall not occur within current agricultural production areas 00:12:40.557 --> 00:12:50.046 - on a parcel designated as prime farmland in the Web Soil Survey National Resources Conservation Service 00:12:50.146 --> 00:12:56.559 - and United States Department of Agriculture unless otherwise specified in the conditional use permit. 00:12:56.559 --> 00:13:03.098 - And it is based on the wording in the county development ordinance. We believe that the Board of Zoning 00:13:03.098 --> 00:13:06.430 - Appeals has the authority to waive this requirement. 00:13:06.882 --> 00:13:13.859 - It is noted that while there is area on the property where the petitioner could relocate the proposed 00:13:13.859 --> 00:13:20.768 - structure so that they are not in prime farmland, said areas would not let him meet the required 200 00:13:20.768 --> 00:13:28.019 - foot setbacks for any of the structures and parking areas. And here are just some photos of the property. 00:13:28.019 --> 00:13:34.654 - As it stands right now, there is an existing home and some accessory structures on the property. 00:13:34.754 --> 00:13:41.451 - Those are intended to stay because at some point in the future, the petitioner is proposing a sliding 00:13:41.451 --> 00:13:48.410 - scale subdivision to create three additional lots, one of which will be exclusively for the event center, 00:13:48.410 --> 00:13:55.501 - and the other three will be residential lots, though that has yet to be heard. And this is the petitioner's 00:13:55.501 --> 00:14:02.067 - site plan showing the proposed location of the Christmas tree farm, the flower farm, as well as the 00:14:02.067 --> 00:14:03.774 - parking and event center. 00:14:05.186 --> 00:14:11.012 - And so staff recommends approval of, as the petitioner has sufficiently demonstrated, that they will 00:14:11.012 --> 00:14:17.012 - be able to fulfill all the use-specific standards under Chapter 811 with the following conditions. One, 00:14:17.012 --> 00:14:22.953 - the petitioner's ability to obtain a right of way activity permit for commercial use. Should the right 00:14:22.953 --> 00:14:29.125 - of way activity permit be denied, the use shall not be permitted. And two, the petitioner can be permitted 00:14:29.125 --> 00:14:32.702 - to utilize gravel for parking areas, except that all required 00:14:32.898 --> 00:14:40.869 - ADA spaces and access to the event center structures shall be paved to provide for proper ADA access. 00:14:40.869 --> 00:14:48.840 - And the Board of Zoning Appeals also has the ability to waive the requirements for the proposed event 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:56.655 - center and parking lot to not be relocated on prime farmland as indicated in the packet by findings 00:14:56.655 --> 00:15:02.750 - of fact and exhibit number six. Is that everything you have to share, Daniel? 00:15:02.978 --> 00:15:11.776 - Yes, I'll take any questions. Okay. Let's go ahead and turn to the petitioner or petitioner's representative. 00:15:11.776 --> 00:15:19.855 - Do we have somebody representing this petition? Sir, if you could come forward and sign in. Yeah, if 00:15:19.855 --> 00:15:26.174 - you could come to the podium. If you could sign in and then I'll swear you in. 00:15:44.386 --> 00:15:50.760 - Okay, if you could raise your right hand and state your name. Tyler Holloway. Okay, and do you swear 00:15:50.760 --> 00:15:57.070 - to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Okay, thank you. You'll have 15 00:15:57.070 --> 00:16:03.444 - minutes. I guess I don't have much to say other than I do agree to the conditions that have been set 00:16:03.444 --> 00:16:09.818 - by the planning department. Plan not to be any hindrance, follow all the rules and guidelines, noise 00:16:09.818 --> 00:16:14.046 - ordinance, all that stuff. Don't have much to say outside of that. 00:16:14.818 --> 00:16:21.726 - Thank you, sir. Do any members of the BZA have questions for Mr. Holloway while he's at the podium? 00:16:21.726 --> 00:16:28.703 - When, if this is allowed, when will this construction happen and the event space open? If everything 00:16:28.703 --> 00:16:35.818 - goes perfectly, I'd hope to break ground this fall and hopefully be up and running by the spring. Wow, 00:16:35.818 --> 00:16:39.134 - fast. That's in a perfect world. Perfect world. 00:16:40.834 --> 00:16:46.942 - Okay, thank you, sir. You're welcome to have a seat. If anybody speaks out against the petition, you're 00:16:46.942 --> 00:16:53.226 - welcome to come back up for a five minute rebuttal at the end. Thank you. Okay. We can turn now to members 00:16:53.226 --> 00:16:59.157 - of the public. So if there's anyone here in the audience who wishes to speak again, let's start with 00:16:59.157 --> 00:17:05.148 - against this petition first. We'll start with anybody who's against this petition. Yeah, if you could 00:17:05.148 --> 00:17:07.262 - sign in and then I'll swear you in. 00:17:32.162 --> 00:17:38.367 - Okay, could you pull the microphone down so it's right in front of your face? Thank you. Raise your 00:17:38.367 --> 00:17:44.634 - right hand and state your name. Bill Hayes, William Hayes III. Okay, do you swear to tell the truth, 00:17:44.634 --> 00:17:50.963 - the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Okay, you'll have three minutes. My 22 acres, which 00:17:50.963 --> 00:17:57.354 - is Sycamore Land Trust Conservation Easement, abuts this property. And it is a wildlife animal refuge, 00:17:57.354 --> 00:18:01.822 - obviously. There's a pond there. There's a 200-year-old white oak tree. 00:18:01.986 --> 00:18:11.622 - I bought the property from the Sylvester family in 1977 and live in a 1915 built home on the property. 00:18:11.622 --> 00:18:21.445 - And the last thing I want is construction noise at the top of the, it's west of my home. There's a stand 00:18:21.445 --> 00:18:24.158 - of trees that is a wonderful 00:18:24.770 --> 00:18:32.291 - Because I'm on the highway, there's a stand of trees there. There's a fence. I have a horse and a donkey. 00:18:32.291 --> 00:18:39.528 - There's an area fenced in. Beyond the fence, which is still my property, is a line of trees. And it's 00:18:39.528 --> 00:18:45.630 - a wonderful sound barrier from the trucks and things that pass on 37. And by the way, 00:18:45.730 --> 00:18:53.506 - If you've been on this stretch of Smithville Road, there are two blind spots on the road. You literally 00:18:53.506 --> 00:19:01.208 - can't see traffic coming. One to the west, one to the east. It's just a dangerous stretch of the road. 00:19:01.208 --> 00:19:08.759 - And I simply value the privacy. The last thing I want is a wedding venue with loud noise, and not to 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:13.470 - mention construction of homes, and how disturbing that will be 00:19:13.698 --> 00:19:22.301 - to my property. Sycamore Land Trust will own it at my death. It's now a conservation easement. Okay, 00:19:22.301 --> 00:19:31.331 - thank you, sir. Welcome. Is there anyone else here in the room who wishes to speak against this petition? 00:19:31.331 --> 00:19:39.934 - And if you do speak, please make sure you just sign in. Yeah. Steve Kinzer and I'm a neighbor. Okay. 00:19:40.066 --> 00:19:48.746 - Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes, I do. OK. If you could 00:19:48.746 --> 00:19:57.259 - sign in, and then you'll have three minutes. Yes, I will. Well, after Jerry passed away, the previous 00:19:57.259 --> 00:20:06.023 - owner and stuff, I went and helped and mowed all this property, bush hogged it a couple of times a year, 00:20:06.023 --> 00:20:09.278 - because I'm the neighbor next to them. 00:20:09.410 --> 00:20:15.694 - Part of that property had had a, when they built 37 there had a big stripper pit all the way through 00:20:15.694 --> 00:20:21.916 - it. So it had been dumped in for a lot of years, drywall, just different things and off and on. But 00:20:21.916 --> 00:20:28.325 - probably some of the drywall was probably good fill and everything else. But I don't know, it's a real 00:20:28.325 --> 00:20:34.672 - narrow, real narrow strip that goes back through there. And I just don't know. Actually, when I first 00:20:34.672 --> 00:20:38.654 - started doing it when Jerry was still alive, I took my tractor, 00:20:39.010 --> 00:20:44.644 - to go through his driveway and just about got ran over from somebody heading back there. So I went and 00:20:44.644 --> 00:20:50.169 - cut a hole in the back of my fence for I could go back there and mow. And so there's a lot of danger 00:20:50.169 --> 00:20:55.639 - pulling them now there. I don't know if anybody's familiar with Smithville Road, but they drive way 00:20:55.639 --> 00:21:01.273 - too fast down there. And I'm a race driver. And I think there was a race driver. And it's unbelievable 00:21:01.273 --> 00:21:05.758 - the speeds they run up and down through there. And there's an awful narrow strip. 00:21:06.658 --> 00:21:12.635 - The only other thing I know is when I was mowing it all the time on top of the hill, it was always really 00:21:12.635 --> 00:21:18.330 - a soft spot. I mean, my tractor just bogged down. So I think there might be a spring right up on the 00:21:18.330 --> 00:21:24.251 - tops. It's something you might want to check into. Other than that, I just think the more vehicles going 00:21:24.251 --> 00:21:29.890 - out, it's pretty dangerous. And it's a beautiful place. There's a lot of eagles nesting those trees 00:21:29.890 --> 00:21:35.698 - and stuff back in there. But it's not my property. But I just wanted to let you know what I felt like. 00:21:35.698 --> 00:21:36.318 - Thank you. 00:21:36.546 --> 00:21:46.314 - Thank you, sir. If we could have the next person come forward that wishes to speak against this. If 00:21:46.314 --> 00:21:53.054 - you could sign in and then raise your right hand, I'll swear you in. 00:22:08.738 --> 00:22:14.746 - Anthony Permisi, and I live at, oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, could you, do you swear to tell the truth, the 00:22:14.746 --> 00:22:21.174 - whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Okay, thank you. You'll have three minutes. Yeah, I'm Anthony 00:22:21.174 --> 00:22:27.542 - Permisi, otherwise known as Tony Permisi. I live at 270 Smithville Road. I'm on one of Steve's properties 00:22:27.542 --> 00:22:33.790 - there. And the only comments I have on it is the accessibility to the place because we came up here and 00:22:34.402 --> 00:22:41.293 - You can't even see where you turn in there, too. There's like a hill there and you can't see that to 00:22:41.293 --> 00:22:48.320 - turn into your right there. So somebody's pulling out of there and going toward the highway. It's very 00:22:48.320 --> 00:22:55.143 - dangerous. And the other thing I wanted to mention that Steve didn't mention on Smithville Road, we 00:22:55.143 --> 00:23:02.238 - don't have much water pressure. Water pressure is real low on that road. We have southern Monroe water. 00:23:02.338 --> 00:23:09.214 - And it's always been a problem, which Steve can attest to. And I'm afraid if they put more housing and 00:23:09.214 --> 00:23:16.024 - other things in there, we're going to have less pressure. So I don't know what else to add other than 00:23:16.024 --> 00:23:22.700 - the danger, dangerous area where you have to pull in and out and the water pressure. Like I say, he 00:23:22.700 --> 00:23:30.110 - said about the spring at the top of the hill there. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, sir. 00:23:30.722 --> 00:23:40.127 - If we could have the next person in the audience who wishes to speak against us come forward. 00:23:40.127 --> 00:23:44.830 - You can sign in, I'll swear you in after that. 00:24:01.730 --> 00:24:08.433 - Okay, could you state your name? Robert Billingham. Okay, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole 00:24:08.433 --> 00:24:15.269 - truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Okay, you have three minutes. I have basically two comments to 00:24:15.269 --> 00:24:22.039 - make. I live at 380 East Smithville Road. When I moved with my family into that property, one of the 00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:29.278 - things that was brought to my attention, and I think it was mentioned earlier, is there is a dump area back 00:24:29.378 --> 00:24:37.533 - either on the kinders or over on the property that's been used for probably what would now be considered 00:24:37.533 --> 00:24:45.687 - toxic substances like diesel fuel or motor oil, those kinds of things. And so at the very least, I think 00:24:45.687 --> 00:24:53.453 - that needs to be examined in some way to determine whether that exists or not and to what degree of 00:24:53.453 --> 00:24:56.094 - toxicity there may or may not be. 00:24:56.354 --> 00:25:05.601 - The second thing is a more personal thing. We all have five-acre lots that we live on. And this idea 00:25:05.601 --> 00:25:14.940 - of an event area is very concerning. And so one of the questions that I would have is how large of an 00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:24.187 - event or how many people would that event center be designed to hold? Are we talking 20, 40, 50? Are 00:25:24.187 --> 00:25:26.110 - we talking hundreds? 00:25:26.498 --> 00:25:34.101 - It says wedding venue, so that sounds to me as if it's going to be very large. Sounds like there's going 00:25:34.101 --> 00:25:41.560 - to be a lot of band or music that will be very loud. We know how those things work. And there will be, 00:25:41.560 --> 00:25:49.598 - in some situations, inappropriate alcohol or drug consumption. And so on top of the danger of them coming out, 00:25:49.794 --> 00:25:58.620 - onto Smithville Road and either trying to get to 37 or up the hill, I think we can predict unless there 00:25:58.620 --> 00:26:07.447 - are major modifications to Smithville Road and traffic redesign for the in and out, there will be many, 00:26:07.447 --> 00:26:16.019 - many accidents in the future. And so I think that really needs to be considered seriously because if 00:26:16.019 --> 00:26:17.886 - you have not seen it, 00:26:18.082 --> 00:26:25.014 - My friends are not exaggerating. It's an extraordinarily dangerous turning off of 37 onto Smithville 00:26:25.014 --> 00:26:32.289 - Road. You're going up to a hill you cannot see over, and it's very short, and there will be people coming 00:26:32.289 --> 00:26:39.220 - that way. At the end of these events, there'll be people turning right, turning left in a very, very 00:26:39.220 --> 00:26:45.054 - dangerous situation, and the road just is not designed to handle that at this point. 00:26:45.346 --> 00:26:52.399 - I would speak against this. I don't like the noise. I live where I live because it's quiet. There are 00:26:52.399 --> 00:26:59.453 - a lot of animals, and this public event thing just really seems to go against everything that we have 00:26:59.453 --> 00:27:06.299 - back there right now, which is basically peace and quiet in a very natural environment. Thank you. 00:27:06.299 --> 00:27:13.214 - Thank you, sir. Do we have anybody else here in the room who wishes to speak against this petition? 00:27:15.170 --> 00:27:21.652 - If not, we can turn to our community members on Teams. If there's anyone on Teams who wishes to speak 00:27:21.652 --> 00:27:28.198 - against this petition, please raise your virtual hand. I was asking for anyone on Teams on the virtual 00:27:28.198 --> 00:27:34.744 - platform who wishes to speak against this to raise their hand. Seeing no one, we will come back to the 00:27:34.744 --> 00:27:41.354 - room. If there's anybody here in the room who wishes to speak in favor of this petition, you're welcome 00:27:41.354 --> 00:27:43.070 - to come to the podium now. 00:27:45.730 --> 00:27:52.064 - Okay, seeing no one, we'll turn to teams. If there's anyone on teams who wishes to speak in favor of 00:27:52.064 --> 00:27:58.336 - this petition, please raise your virtual hand. Okay, not seeing anyone, we can turn back now to Mr. 00:27:58.336 --> 00:28:04.921 - Holloway. If you wish to speak in rebuttal to any of the comments you heard against the petition, you're 00:28:04.921 --> 00:28:11.192 - welcome to come back forward for five more minutes. You're not obligated to, but you're welcome to. 00:28:11.192 --> 00:28:15.582 - Pardon me, Mr. Chair. If I could be recognized prior to his speaking, 00:28:16.226 --> 00:28:26.748 - quick question of clarification that will, for staff, for me to process his rebuttal, if that's okay. 00:28:26.748 --> 00:28:37.374 - Mr. Brown, I'm hearing largely from those that have spoken in opposition to this proposal, three major 00:28:37.374 --> 00:28:46.142 - things that, for me, summarizing are the potential water issue, the noise issue, and 00:28:46.786 --> 00:28:57.502 - traffic. And then I'm also hearing about houses. Seeing and hear that this approval is for the agricultural 00:28:57.502 --> 00:29:08.416 - event center, not for the flower farm or for the Christmas tree or for a potential sliding scale subdivision. 00:29:08.416 --> 00:29:15.262 - Am I correct in thinking the decision that we're weighing tonight is 00:29:15.394 --> 00:29:22.406 - only the event center on this property? That's my understanding, yes. Okay. That is correct, but I would 00:29:22.406 --> 00:29:29.150 - ask the petitioner if they're interested or willing to put in the flower farm or Christmas tree farm 00:29:29.150 --> 00:29:35.961 - if they do not get the agricultural event center. So I think that there is a requirement that there's 00:29:35.961 --> 00:29:42.706 - a primary agricultural activity on the property to do the event center. So if they do not have that, 00:29:42.706 --> 00:29:45.310 - then they may not do the other things. 00:29:45.474 --> 00:29:55.151 - but it's zoned appropriately for the farm activity, correct? That's correct. Okay, I'm just trying to 00:29:55.151 --> 00:30:05.017 - make sure I understand. Thanks. Okay, thank you. Yeah, let's turn to the petitioner now. I want to make 00:30:05.017 --> 00:30:09.950 - sure we're following procedure here, but thank you. 00:30:19.874 --> 00:30:25.934 - you'll have five minutes to speak to any of the comments that you heard. Okay. So I think the first 00:30:25.934 --> 00:30:32.055 - thing I just want to make clear is we are no longer planning to build houses. We are just wanting to 00:30:32.055 --> 00:30:38.115 - build the event center and do the farming activities. I think as far as the traffic, we're going to 00:30:38.115 --> 00:30:44.418 - make sure we can make it as safe as possible. The water is something we've looked into. I live on Zikes 00:30:44.418 --> 00:30:49.630 - Road, have the same water and I seem to have plenty fine pressure. So as far as that, 00:30:49.730 --> 00:30:56.947 - I just wanted it to be clear, we're not attempting to build houses anymore, just the event center. So 00:30:56.947 --> 00:31:04.518 - I think that's it. Okay. While you're up there, do any members of the BZA have questions for Mr. Holloway? 00:31:04.518 --> 00:31:11.593 - I have one. Is there a cap on the number of people who would be attending your events? Based on the 00:31:11.593 --> 00:31:14.494 - land we own, the max we could do is 300. 00:31:14.722 --> 00:31:22.250 - We plan to obviously abide by that. And then I guess the other thing I'll address is the noise. We plan 00:31:22.250 --> 00:31:29.778 - to be plenty far away from any of the neighbors. Obviously we have the ordinance of inside or less than 00:31:29.778 --> 00:31:37.161 - 60 decibels by 10 p.m. at night. We plan to follow that very strictly and make sure everything's shut 00:31:37.161 --> 00:31:42.590 - down or inside at a quiet level by that time. I have a question. Noise was 00:31:42.786 --> 00:31:53.377 - Obviously a large concern for a recurring theme. The location that you chose versus what planning staff 00:31:53.377 --> 00:32:03.866 - said, there were potentially some other options on there. Do you feel that the choice that you've made 00:32:03.866 --> 00:32:12.318 - for where you're proposing to build this offers less or more opportunity to buffer 00:32:13.218 --> 00:32:19.657 - I believe, because we're doing it in that very last track, the land, which is the only one that's wide 00:32:19.657 --> 00:32:25.971 - enough with our 200 foot setbacks to be able to build. But that also gets us as far as possible away 00:32:25.971 --> 00:32:32.785 - from any neighbors. It's the farthest backtrack. So it'll be as far possible away from any of the neighbors. 00:32:32.785 --> 00:32:39.162 - And a follow up question. Traffic would be another recurring theme here, obviously, with concerns for 00:32:39.162 --> 00:32:43.038 - neighbors. And we take these concerns pretty seriously. Yeah. 00:32:44.098 --> 00:32:50.326 - What have you done to, have you spoken with folks involving traffic, whether that be the Monroe County 00:32:50.326 --> 00:32:56.493 - Highway Department or whether it be, and I don't know exactly where, have you had the traffic studies 00:32:56.493 --> 00:33:02.842 - take done and assessed? I haven't dove too deep into the traffic yet, just because without the approval, 00:33:02.842 --> 00:33:09.070 - I didn't know how much I needed to do. I've spoke with Ben from the highway department plenty of times 00:33:09.070 --> 00:33:13.726 - about obviously having a commercial driveway, two lanes, a possible shoulder 00:33:13.922 --> 00:33:20.703 - So people aren't in the middle of the road waiting for people to get in and out. But that's about the 00:33:20.703 --> 00:33:27.417 - extent of that so far. And could you share with us his reaction when you talked about the project as 00:33:27.417 --> 00:33:34.331 - a whole? Did he share any thoughts? The initial was when we were attempting to build houses. So we were 00:33:34.331 --> 00:33:41.112 - going to try and put a second driveway in. That was not approved because of the location. But he said 00:33:41.112 --> 00:33:43.838 - so far that where the driveway is now is 00:33:43.970 --> 00:33:55.600 - in a good location. Thank you. Any additional questions for Mr. Holloway? I have one. And I'm going 00:33:55.600 --> 00:34:07.463 - to ask staff about this, but one of the conditions, let me see, is that you'd be permitted to utilize 00:34:07.463 --> 00:34:13.278 - gravel for parking areas except for ADA. Correct. 00:34:13.474 --> 00:34:25.513 - We spend an amazing amount of time talking about gravel in this board. And usually, and I want to check 00:34:25.513 --> 00:34:37.321 - with staff about the basis for this exception. If you had to pave, well, okay. So, and let me, if you 00:34:37.321 --> 00:34:42.878 - don't mind, why don't you, Mr. Brown, would you 00:34:43.202 --> 00:34:53.061 - address why we would have, what would the normal standard be and is gravel lower than that standard? 00:34:53.061 --> 00:35:03.506 - So under our parking chapter, we do require asphalt typically for parking lots. Gravel can be an exception 00:35:03.506 --> 00:35:11.998 - to that for certain situations. One is if you have like temporary or overflow parking, 00:35:12.098 --> 00:35:21.391 - Or if you're not in an urban area and it's under 10 parking spaces. Or I think there's another exception 00:35:21.391 --> 00:35:25.374 - in the ordinance about like private storage. 00:35:25.538 --> 00:35:34.948 - vehicles or of equipment but under the Conditions for this conditional use it does state very specifically 00:35:34.948 --> 00:35:43.743 - if Daniel can go to that condition That the BZA has the ability to approve the drop the parking lot 00:35:43.743 --> 00:35:45.854 - as gravel So keep going 00:36:03.458 --> 00:36:10.573 - Okay, so it says under 1A, parking. It says that parking areas shall follow the requirements of chapter 00:36:10.573 --> 00:36:17.483 - 814, which would require paving. But then it says, however, the surfacing requirements for driveways 00:36:17.483 --> 00:36:24.324 - and parking lots may be able to utilize gravel or crushed stone if deemed appropriate by the border 00:36:24.324 --> 00:36:31.576 - zoning appeals and is directly requested by the petitioner during the meeting. All ADA spaces must comply 00:36:31.576 --> 00:36:33.150 - with federal standards 00:36:33.282 --> 00:36:40.959 - including surfacing requirements. And the reason that the CDO is written this way is that the purpose 00:36:40.959 --> 00:36:48.635 - of this use is to support an existing, hopefully, or to be existing, primary agricultural use. And so 00:36:48.635 --> 00:36:55.710 - if you have pavement and you're running your equipment back and forth over it to, say, do hay 00:36:55.842 --> 00:37:04.278 - Or in his case, he's going to be doing a flower farm and Christmas tree farm. We've heard complaints 00:37:04.278 --> 00:37:12.714 - that pavement over ag land is not a good situation. So we've allowed a gravel component, if approved 00:37:12.714 --> 00:37:19.646 - by you all. In this scenario, though, he is kind of in a very long, skinny parcel. 00:37:19.842 --> 00:37:26.456 - So you may say that he could pave it without any problems associated with still doing the Christmas 00:37:26.456 --> 00:37:33.137 - tree farm or the flower farm. So if you think dust might be a complaint or an issue, you could say I 00:37:33.137 --> 00:37:39.950 - don't agree with the gravel and make it paved. I additionally want to mention that once he gets to the 00:37:39.950 --> 00:37:47.358 - site plan stage, we will be evaluating maximum impervious cover. And if it's over, which we assume it might be, 00:37:47.554 --> 00:37:56.286 - He may be back for future variances if this use is granted. So I don't know if that was something you 00:37:56.286 --> 00:38:04.932 - were also getting out with the gravel versus asphalt. Thank you. Mr. Damon. I have one more question 00:38:04.932 --> 00:38:13.579 - for the petitioner, if you don't mind. There was also a couple of folks that mentioned event center. 00:38:13.579 --> 00:38:16.318 - They're not. I might. Capacity. 00:38:16.610 --> 00:38:25.519 - What are we talking about with the capacity, and could you go into a little bit about the type of events 00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:34.089 - and the numbers that you're expecting? I mean, obviously, like I said, the maximum would be 300 that 00:38:34.089 --> 00:38:42.659 - we can do. I don't foresee a ton of events having 300, but we have a minimum, or the minimum for 300 00:38:42.659 --> 00:38:45.374 - people is 15 acres. We have 23. 00:38:45.602 --> 00:38:52.786 - We're gonna have a building that's big enough for that. Like I said, I don't know how often that'll 00:38:52.786 --> 00:39:00.041 - be achieved, but yeah, so 300 would be the max. Maximum 300, okay. And the parking situation for the 00:39:00.041 --> 00:39:07.440 - 300, even with the farm being present on there? Yeah, I believe the requirement is one space for every 00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:15.486 - two and a half people, so we're planning for 150 parking spaces, which well exceeds that. And another question. 00:39:17.154 --> 00:39:25.308 - Your events are one day events as to what I understand, and you're not expecting overnight guests for 00:39:25.308 --> 00:39:33.781 - this. Is that correct? Correct. It'll mainly be weddings, bridal showers, baby showers, corporate events, 00:39:33.781 --> 00:39:42.175 - lunches, dinners, whatever, those kind of things. All right. Thank you. Any other questions from members 00:39:42.175 --> 00:39:43.134 - of the BZA? 00:39:45.698 --> 00:39:55.055 - I have some for the staff. OK. I think that's all the questions for you. You're welcome to sit down. 00:39:55.055 --> 00:40:03.764 - Thank you, sir. The concerns about the road access, we really, our job is not the houses, not 00:40:03.764 --> 00:40:11.454 - the subdivision. It's the event space period. So is part of that decision based on 00:40:11.586 --> 00:40:19.160 - highway accessibility. It's not up to us. I am ever so confident to worry over that. But is there somebody 00:40:19.160 --> 00:40:26.380 - looking at that concern? Because every one of them mentioned that. And I'm sure it's true. There's so 00:40:26.380 --> 00:40:33.883 - many blind spots in this county. So many hairpin curves all the time. It's just part and parcel of living 00:40:33.883 --> 00:40:37.918 - here. But does somebody address that for these concerns? 00:40:39.298 --> 00:40:46.301 - I would say that the border zoning appeals can definitely weigh in on the location of this agricultural 00:40:46.301 --> 00:40:53.439 - event center as it relates to road frontage and turning access. We do have a condition of approval saying 00:40:53.439 --> 00:41:00.307 - as long as they can get a right of way activity permit, this use will be permitted. As the petitioner 00:41:00.307 --> 00:41:02.462 - stated, he was denied the first 00:41:02.786 --> 00:41:10.283 - permit, but that was for a second driveway. We feel pretty confident based on the highway department's 00:41:10.283 --> 00:41:17.634 - comments that there is a location that could accommodate this, but they're also required to give one 00:41:17.634 --> 00:41:25.494 - driveway per lot. So it's not that it's an ideal location for a driveway, it's that it's the best situation 00:41:25.494 --> 00:41:27.678 - that the parcel frontage has. 00:41:28.258 --> 00:41:34.996 - Okay, my second question. So we can take it into consideration. And if they get the right of way permit 00:41:34.996 --> 00:41:41.669 - that assumes that the traffic can be accommodated is kind of what you're implying. And they're not the 00:41:41.669 --> 00:41:48.213 - highway department. I don't think at this point has an active application. And so they could ask for 00:41:48.213 --> 00:41:54.692 - a traffic study. We do not have one at this point. They could ask for that. Okay. Well, that's good 00:41:54.692 --> 00:41:56.830 - to know. The concern about toxic 00:41:56.930 --> 00:42:04.292 - dumping. I know there's an entity here to report that to you. I know it's not in our purview for this, 00:42:04.292 --> 00:42:12.011 - but is that also addressable because the neighbors are concerned about that? And we should all be concerned 00:42:12.011 --> 00:42:19.444 - if that is so. Yeah, I wasn't sure exactly what they were referring to in terms of the future use being 00:42:19.444 --> 00:42:25.662 - having possible or that there were prior uses. OK, and that they needed to clean that. 00:42:27.106 --> 00:42:34.444 - Yes, there are different departments that deal with some of that. While we do the site plan review, 00:42:34.444 --> 00:42:41.928 - we can note it for our stormwater team to go out, especially since this use will require detention or 00:42:41.928 --> 00:42:49.339 - other things like that because of the maximum impervious that we're discussing. I do think that they 00:42:49.339 --> 00:42:55.870 - will have to accommodate stormwater, make sure that the site is clean, things like that. 00:42:56.194 --> 00:43:03.507 - And if we can talk with the neighbors about where they think that dumping has occurred. So that can 00:43:03.507 --> 00:43:11.040 - be addressed. And the water pressure, my last question, the water pressure, when something this large, 00:43:11.040 --> 00:43:18.353 - 300 people, that's a lot of flushing, a lot of hand washing, a lot of cleaning up dishes. Will some 00:43:18.353 --> 00:43:25.374 - entity here say this is a plus or a minus because it'll affect other residents, or is that also 00:43:25.698 --> 00:43:33.254 - not our concern, not anyone's concern. Is it anyone's concern? So Southern Monroe has stated to us that 00:43:33.254 --> 00:43:40.591 - until they get a booster station, they do not have adequate water pressure in several parts of their 00:43:40.591 --> 00:43:48.147 - serving area. They are working on a booster station. I don't know if it directly impacts this location, 00:43:48.147 --> 00:43:53.886 - but my guess is the petitioner has not gotten a capacity letter at this stage. 00:43:54.018 --> 00:44:01.276 - The building department is going to require, if this is a new build, for this to be reviewed as a commercial 00:44:01.276 --> 00:44:08.069 - building. And to my knowledge, it will require a sprinkler system. So if they don't have the capacity 00:44:08.069 --> 00:44:14.794 - for water to do a sprinkler system, they won't meet the code. They cannot build the center. So we're 00:44:14.794 --> 00:44:16.126 - trying not to tell. 00:44:16.866 --> 00:44:23.680 - We try not to bring this all up at the BZA because there are different steps in this and we can't predict 00:44:23.680 --> 00:44:30.173 - whether there will be water pressure or we can't at the time that they go to build. We can't predict 00:44:30.173 --> 00:44:36.730 - if they pursue a variance to that requirement and get it from the state, which would be very unlikely 00:44:36.730 --> 00:44:37.630 - but possible. 00:44:37.730 --> 00:44:45.301 - So there's just different factors and people are looking into those different things. I'm reassured 00:44:45.301 --> 00:44:53.100 - by that because the neighbors are very consistent in their drumbeat of the issues and if their process 00:44:53.100 --> 00:45:00.747 - and procedures to address those were all well served. So thank you for your good answer. I just want 00:45:00.747 --> 00:45:02.110 - to point out that 00:45:03.042 --> 00:45:10.631 - If I'm correct here, am I up to date, the one I've got printed 841.3e, standard of conditional use approval, 00:45:10.631 --> 00:45:17.872 - is that what we're working on here? Yes. As well as the use specific standards. So there's use specific 00:45:17.872 --> 00:45:24.904 - standards for agricultural event centers plus 84.1-34, general conditional use standards. So you can 00:45:24.904 --> 00:45:32.702 - take all of those standards and apply those here. Well, the one I'm, there are two I'm looking at particularly. 00:45:32.802 --> 00:45:40.713 - the conditional use property can be served with adequate utilities. And it sounds like right now, we 00:45:40.713 --> 00:45:48.781 - can't be confident that it would be served with adequate facilities. And 300 people in the kitchen and 00:45:48.781 --> 00:45:56.222 - the bathrooms is going to be more people than the rest of the road put together, I'm assuming. 00:45:56.610 --> 00:46:04.607 - So I think we have a duty to take into consideration utilities. And number nine, the conditional use 00:46:04.607 --> 00:46:12.524 - shall organize vehicular access and parking to minimize traffic congestion in the neighborhood. And 00:46:12.524 --> 00:46:21.154 - we have grave concerns expressed by the neighborhood that this is going to create serious traffic congestion 00:46:21.154 --> 00:46:26.142 - and danger problems. So I'm pointing out that it is within our 00:46:26.562 --> 00:46:37.092 - purview to take these factors, to consider these factors. The other question, Jackie, is right now there's 00:46:37.092 --> 00:46:46.932 - no flower farm and no tree farm. Flower farms and tree farms are expensive things to set up and get 00:46:46.932 --> 00:46:56.478 - rolling. What happens if five years from now there isn't a flower farm or a Christmas tree farm? 00:46:56.674 --> 00:47:03.581 - What happens then? Well, I think that they'd be in violation of the conditional use granted tonight 00:47:03.581 --> 00:47:10.765 - if they state that their primary agricultural use will be established. They will have to have some sort 00:47:10.765 --> 00:47:18.156 - of primary agricultural use to keep this conditional use because that's the definition of the Agricultural 00:47:18.156 --> 00:47:25.064 - Event Center. Otherwise, it's just an event center, which is a general business zone and allows for 00:47:25.064 --> 00:47:26.238 - the same things. 00:47:26.466 --> 00:47:33.793 - It'll be typically in a more urban area with a lot more services. But what that would mean to me is 00:47:33.793 --> 00:47:41.194 - they build an event center, all that investment, and then the flower farm after four years of trying 00:47:41.194 --> 00:47:48.667 - to get it to work doesn't work, and the Christmas tree farmer gets a bad year and it doesn't work and 00:47:48.667 --> 00:47:50.206 - they stop having it. 00:47:51.138 --> 00:47:58.742 - It's very easy for it to be a freestanding event center because there isn't an existing agricultural 00:47:58.742 --> 00:48:06.949 - use. Do you get my drift? I do. The petitioner recently purchased the property, so I do think that typically 00:48:06.949 --> 00:48:14.779 - when we have seen maybe two past cases of attempts to get this use, there's already been an established 00:48:14.779 --> 00:48:20.350 - owner with an established agricultural use, and typically it's row crops. 00:48:20.610 --> 00:48:30.337 - to be honest, and so the whole goal of this agricultural center was to be able to offer farmers, another 00:48:30.337 --> 00:48:39.230 - economic option to keep the farm and to keep farming the property in some way or shape or form. 00:48:39.458 --> 00:48:46.352 - Position we're in as staff is that they're saying well, I just bought it I promise and we will check 00:48:46.352 --> 00:48:53.315 - that there's a Christmas tree farm and flower farm established at the time of the commencement of the 00:48:53.315 --> 00:49:00.346 - agricultural event center, so we will require to see proof that it is At least established now if it's 00:49:00.346 --> 00:49:01.438 - not if it's not 00:49:01.570 --> 00:49:07.934 - pulling in more money than the event center, that's not information that we would have. But if they 00:49:07.934 --> 00:49:14.298 - altogether just stop doing the flower farm and the Christmas tree farm, we would be able to take in 00:49:14.298 --> 00:49:20.725 - as an enforcement case and potentially revoke the approval. Yeah, but that would mean the 300-person 00:49:20.725 --> 00:49:24.862 - event center would have to be not used for that purpose anymore. 00:49:25.026 --> 00:49:34.206 - Or another agricultural use. Okay, thank you. I appreciate your help on that. I just have a question 00:49:34.206 --> 00:49:43.568 - about the harmonious use of the buildings and grounds and the relationship to the neighbors. You know, 00:49:43.568 --> 00:49:53.566 - we've heard tonight from the neighbors that there's sick, is it already donated Sycamore Land Trust property? 00:49:54.306 --> 00:50:05.069 - Or is it to be donated? I believe it was stated as an easement. A conservation easement. With ownership 00:50:05.069 --> 00:50:15.729 - after the donor's death. I see. And that's undersworn testimony. Yes. So it seems to me that that sets 00:50:15.729 --> 00:50:21.214 - some kind of standard for the agricultural area that 00:50:21.602 --> 00:50:31.074 - kind of mandates, given that generosity, that it kind of mandates that we give a higher standard of 00:50:31.074 --> 00:50:40.547 - review for this idea of harmoniousness to the surrounding properties. And, you know, harmoniousness 00:50:40.547 --> 00:50:48.030 - with the conservation goals that have been established and explicated and also 00:50:48.482 --> 00:51:03.422 - that's just something that I think is important to do. Are there any more 00:51:03.554 --> 00:51:12.755 - I can understand that sentiment. That came up with Connor Prairie in a big lawsuit when there was commercial 00:51:12.755 --> 00:51:21.449 - establishment around the perimeter, big lights that would have intruded. So it became a statewide case 00:51:21.449 --> 00:51:30.059 - about boundary. And I don't know the outcome of that case, but it's kind of very relevant in terms of 00:51:30.059 --> 00:51:33.182 - the direction because it was pursued 00:51:33.570 --> 00:51:39.975 - based on Conner Prairie. I wonder what, do you remember what that decision was? Well, Dave Schilling 00:51:39.975 --> 00:51:46.571 - is online. Perhaps Dave Schilling could weigh in on that question. I wonder if he knows. Tech Services, 00:51:46.571 --> 00:51:53.294 - could Mr. Schilling be promoted to be a presenter? He's our county attorney. He's looking at his computer 00:51:53.294 --> 00:51:59.635 - right now as we speak. You know he is. Mr. Schilling, are you able to weigh in on the question that 00:51:59.635 --> 00:52:01.982 - Ms. Davidson brought up? Brought up. 00:52:02.722 --> 00:52:09.859 - Yes, I am not familiar with that case, but I can look into that as you talk and discuss. Thank you, 00:52:09.859 --> 00:52:16.997 - Mr. Schilling. Thank you, Mr. Schilling. Any other comments from members of the BZA for discussion? 00:52:16.997 --> 00:52:24.634 - We'd just like Mr. Schilling to weigh in if he reviews anything. Yeah, I mean, I have a couple of thoughts 00:52:24.634 --> 00:52:30.558 - while we wait and give Mr. Schilling a few minutes too. You know, I agree with the 00:52:30.722 --> 00:52:37.056 - the concerns that have been raised by the BZA and some of the neighbors tonight. But as I'm looking 00:52:37.056 --> 00:52:43.390 - at the map, the only possible entrance and exit would be very close to State Road 37. So that's not 00:52:43.390 --> 00:52:49.978 - a safe intersection anyway. And then to add, you know, the possibility of a group of traffic or a large 00:52:49.978 --> 00:52:56.819 - number of cars leaving an event center at one time, I think would create some issues we should be concerned 00:52:56.819 --> 00:52:58.846 - about. I'm also concerned about 00:52:59.458 --> 00:53:05.411 - a large gravel parking lot, because if we go a few days in the summertime without rain and you get several 00:53:05.411 --> 00:53:11.030 - hundred cars pulling into a parking lot, then I think that creates a cloud of dust that then travels 00:53:11.030 --> 00:53:16.705 - whichever way the wind is blowing and kind of coats the neighborhood. So I want to bring up those two 00:53:16.705 --> 00:53:22.380 - additional things. I think they're limited to 150 cars. And you said a couple hundred. I just want to 00:53:22.380 --> 00:53:26.942 - make sure. I think the problem's the same, but I don't want the record to reflect 00:53:27.202 --> 00:53:33.686 - a couple hundred when 150 would presumably be the maximum. Yeah, thank you for pointing that out. I 00:53:33.686 --> 00:53:40.301 - do think even a few dozen cars would present the same problem, but thank you for clarifying that. And 00:53:40.301 --> 00:53:46.850 - factually, as someone who goes to events, you all go to events, for events like that, people trickle 00:53:46.850 --> 00:53:53.399 - in and trickle out. They don't come all at one time, and they don't leave all at one time. It's here 00:53:53.399 --> 00:53:56.382 - and there. So congestion, yes, it can happen, 00:53:56.706 --> 00:54:05.750 - It isn't a huge dilemma just because people are on such different timetables for attendance, I think. 00:54:05.750 --> 00:54:14.793 - At the same time, it goes on for hours. It does go on for hours. For people for way more traffic than 00:54:14.793 --> 00:54:23.837 - there is when there is an event going in and going out for hours of... You can't put a rent-a-cop out 00:54:23.837 --> 00:54:26.142 - there and have him direct 00:54:26.658 --> 00:54:36.083 - traffic unless he's out there for a long time in a situation like, yeah, you can if you put him out 00:54:36.083 --> 00:54:45.979 - there for a long time. But yeah, I certainly want to hear what Mr. Schilling has to say. But while we're 00:54:45.979 --> 00:54:56.158 - waiting, I'm prepared to move to deny. I think that we have utility concerns which have not been addressed. 00:54:56.322 --> 00:55:08.441 - The environment consistent with the environment of its surrounding neighborhood, which is five acre 00:55:08.441 --> 00:55:20.318 - lots and easement for a conservation easement and then conservation ownership, and there's no way 00:55:20.578 --> 00:55:27.877 - minimize traffic congestion in the neighborhood. There are, traffic congestion is basically an insurmountable 00:55:27.877 --> 00:55:34.513 - problem to me. And I'm very interested in what Mr. Schelling has to say, but what building pattern, 00:55:34.513 --> 00:55:41.480 - I'm just going to put myself out there. Thank you, Mr. Laughman. Mr. Schelling, have we given you enough 00:55:41.480 --> 00:55:44.798 - time or would you like us to continue discussing? 00:55:46.690 --> 00:55:56.728 - Yeah, I could not find a case involving Conrad, other than a superior court case that was dismissed 00:55:56.728 --> 00:56:06.865 - by the parties. But I can continue to keep looking. Maybe it just became a big matter of controversy 00:56:06.865 --> 00:56:14.494 - and they worked it out, dismissed it. So who knows, but it was a hot topic. 00:56:16.578 --> 00:56:23.347 - Okay, thank you, Mr. Schelling. Okay, thank you, Mr. Schelling. Tech Services, we're getting a really 00:56:23.347 --> 00:56:30.515 - loud echo down here. I'm not sure if there's anything that could be done about that. Any other conversation 00:56:30.515 --> 00:56:37.152 - for members of the VCA before we call for a motion? I do have some information that was shared from 00:56:37.152 --> 00:56:43.390 - the Southern Monroe Water Corporation last year about their areas of not being able to serve. 00:56:44.034 --> 00:56:52.697 - And I can share that with the group if you would like. I actually don't know that this site in particular 00:56:52.697 --> 00:57:01.034 - is part of that moratorium area, but it is part of their service area. I think it would be helpful if 00:57:01.034 --> 00:57:09.534 - you could share a little bit more information about that. Okay. I'd like to ask Mr. Laflute a question. 00:57:10.210 --> 00:57:20.077 - The green area is the Southern Monroe service area. And then the area in pink was the area where they're 00:57:20.077 --> 00:57:30.226 - stating that they're not able to currently give new water service to. But I believe that are the petitioner 00:57:30.226 --> 00:57:37.086 - tonight is located outside of the pink and is located in this area here. 00:57:37.506 --> 00:57:46.761 - which is not part of the moratorium, but that's not to say that they're within the pressure zone boundary 00:57:46.761 --> 00:57:55.754 - area, which we were not discussing too much on that. They actually cannot issue more service lines for 00:57:55.754 --> 00:58:02.302 - water in the pink, but the pressure service boundary I don't think will be 00:58:02.594 --> 00:58:08.613 - maybe immediately address with that proposed booster I was discussing, which is all the way over here 00:58:08.613 --> 00:58:14.927 - on the screen. So like I said, the petitioners in the outside of the moratorium, but it looks like they're 00:58:14.927 --> 00:58:20.828 - in a pressure zone boundary area. So hopefully that helps. Yeah. Thank you, Jackie. That's helpful. 00:58:20.828 --> 00:58:27.201 - And sir, sorry, I see your hand, but we're past the public comment period. So we can't take your testimony. 00:58:27.201 --> 00:58:30.270 - So I apologize. Mr. Daley, did you have a question? 00:58:30.370 --> 00:58:46.648 - Mr. Lofman, you mentioned earlier, I don't know verbatim, but you said utility issues. Yes. I don't 00:58:46.648 --> 00:58:58.206 - see our board weighing a utility issue. We have concern from neighbors 00:58:58.786 --> 00:59:11.272 - Those concerns are not, as far as I'm concerned, part of my decision-making process because the process 00:59:11.272 --> 00:59:23.877 - is set up with the experts that determine whether there is a problem or not is after us. As the director 00:59:23.877 --> 00:59:25.438 - pointed out, 00:59:26.658 --> 00:59:35.919 - The utility company will specific or the the fire safety for the sprinkler systems, etc. The permitting 00:59:35.919 --> 00:59:45.447 - process of that building once it's built, if it gets to that point, they will then make that determination 00:59:45.447 --> 00:59:54.174 - and then that would be a challenge. If it is a problem or not would be one down the road, not for 00:59:54.434 --> 01:00:01.674 - this decision for this board? I hear you, and I think there's wisdom in what you're saying. I don't 01:00:01.674 --> 01:00:08.914 - dispute what you're saying. On the other hand, I'm looking at the factors I'm supposed to take into 01:00:08.914 --> 01:00:16.226 - consideration, and the neighbors say, who are right next to this, they have very low water pressure. 01:00:16.226 --> 01:00:22.814 - And when 300 people are there doing that, they're going to have a lot less water pressure. 01:00:23.138 --> 01:00:32.308 - even if there's enough water pressure to run the operation, I still think it's going to bound to have 01:00:32.308 --> 01:00:41.298 - a negative effect on the neighborhood. And that's one of the factors I look at is the neighborhood. 01:00:41.298 --> 01:00:44.894 - I just want to make a comment among us. 01:00:45.282 --> 01:00:55.144 - I'm very appreciative of that. It sounds like a marvelous area. But I don't know that that 01:00:55.144 --> 01:01:06.090 - can be determinative of how a neighbor uses their property. I'm just not sure. Boy, I wish everybody 01:01:06.090 --> 01:01:14.110 - in that area would give. So I don't think that is a factor that we should 01:01:14.370 --> 01:01:21.774 - take into consideration. The statute, the rules, you're right, Mr. Lofman, all that is true. And I'm 01:01:21.774 --> 01:01:29.397 - totally sympathetic to that because that would be disturbing. You're absolutely right. And someone said 01:01:29.397 --> 01:01:36.728 - there are bald eagles nesting in that area, so it must be just gorgeous. But I just want to caution 01:01:36.728 --> 01:01:43.838 - us not to let an adjacent neighborhood neighbor's decision govern your choices if it fits within 01:01:45.314 --> 01:01:54.890 - rules and permissions. I disagree because if it was general, it wouldn't be before us if it met compliance. 01:01:54.890 --> 01:02:04.200 - It means that they need special permission for this conditional use. If they didn't need the conditional 01:02:04.200 --> 01:02:13.598 - use, it wouldn't matter. We wouldn't worry about impact on the neighbours. But when I look at conditional 01:02:13.698 --> 01:02:20.655 - I do look at the impact on the neighbors. Well, all I'm saying is that the fact that there's 20 acres 01:02:20.655 --> 01:02:27.544 - going to Sycamore Land Trust, the neighbors then are the animals in that situation. That's who it is 01:02:27.544 --> 01:02:34.842 - in that 20 acres because it's going to be used for wildlife. Yeah, with the environment of its surrounding 01:02:34.842 --> 01:02:42.686 - neighborhood includes the environment to me. We're required to look at the neighboring properties. We're required. 01:02:45.282 --> 01:03:01.783 - We are required. Any further comments for members of the VCA before we move to a motion? Seeing none, 01:03:01.783 --> 01:03:11.166 - do we have a motion? I move to deny. Yes. Yeah. Holloway. 01:03:11.458 --> 01:03:24.902 - Homes LLC Agricultural Event Center, CDU-25-10 at 98 East Smithville Road. On the grounds that I did 01:03:24.902 --> 01:03:35.550 - not find that the standards for conditional use approval have been met, there's 01:03:35.746 --> 01:03:44.582 - evidence that there is inadequate water pressure. A 300-person event is going to greatly hurt the water 01:03:44.582 --> 01:03:53.247 - pressure in that area. The environmental concerns are very important here, where you're going to have 01:03:53.247 --> 01:04:01.998 - a 300-person event center. And until 10 o'clock at night, you're probably going to have bands and loud 01:04:01.998 --> 01:04:05.566 - music, which can disturb the environment. 01:04:05.858 --> 01:04:16.168 - the traffic is with 300 people going in and out in 150 cars over the period of the event is a serious 01:04:16.168 --> 01:04:26.579 - congestion problem to me. In light of that, I've made my motion. Do we have a second? I'll second that 01:04:26.579 --> 01:04:35.070 - for the reasons that Mr. Loftman stated, but also because the request does not meet 01:04:35.330 --> 01:04:49.036 - items number five and six under 84-3E or items one and two under 84, 841-4E. Okay, Ms. Nestergellen, 01:04:49.036 --> 01:05:02.878 - we have a motion and a second. Could you call the roll for us? Sure. The motion is to deny CDU-25-10. 01:05:02.978 --> 01:05:12.810 - A vote yes is a vote to deny the conditional use for an agricultural event center large at this location. 01:05:12.810 --> 01:05:22.271 - Jeff Morris? Yes. Pamela Davidson? This is a really hard vote for me, because I can see it both ways, 01:05:22.271 --> 01:05:32.382 - but I know the way the vote's going to go on this. I'm going to vote yes. Margaret Clements? Yes. Skip Daly? 01:05:33.058 --> 01:05:39.872 - No. Guy Laughman. Yes. Okay. So the motion is denied. The denial does proceed. So four to one denial. 01:05:39.872 --> 01:05:46.687 - Okay. I want to thank all the neighbors for coming out and speaking tonight and also thank you to Mr. 01:05:46.687 --> 01:05:53.368 - Holloway for coming out and sharing your case with us and apologies that did not go the way you had 01:05:53.368 --> 01:05:55.038 - hoped. So thank you all. 01:05:55.138 --> 01:06:03.714 - Moving on now to case VAR-26-5. This is the Mellencamp Eco Area 1, one acre contiguous build area to 01:06:03.714 --> 01:06:12.374 - Chapter 823. Mr. Loftman, it looks like this one is recommended for approval. Yes. Did you want to do 01:06:12.374 --> 01:06:21.374 - that, Mr. Neal? It was your invention. Permission to address? Yeah, go ahead. At this point, I would like 01:06:21.538 --> 01:06:30.908 - to find out from the audience both online or in person if there are any members of the public that wish 01:06:30.908 --> 01:06:39.918 - to speak either way on this matter. If you're online and wish to speak on this matter, please raise 01:06:39.918 --> 01:06:41.630 - your virtual hand. 01:06:49.026 --> 01:06:57.365 - I see no one at this point. I would like to make a motion to call the question. And I would note that 01:06:57.365 --> 01:07:05.950 - staff has recommended approval. That's why we're doing this, yeah. Second. We have a motion and a second 01:07:05.950 --> 01:07:14.370 - to call the question to move this toward. Okay. I'll go ahead and just share the screen really quickly 01:07:14.370 --> 01:07:17.886 - with the packet. So this is a case VAR-26. 01:07:18.082 --> 01:07:26.900 - There's a motion and a second to approve the Mellon Camp Eco Area 1 maximum residential density variance 01:07:26.900 --> 01:07:35.969 - to chapter 823. And the staff recommendation was to approve based on it meeting all the criteria, including 01:07:35.969 --> 01:07:44.535 - practical difficulties. A vote yes is a vote to approve this variance. Pamela Davidson? Yes. Margaret 01:07:44.535 --> 01:07:46.718 - Clements? Yes. Skip Daly? 01:07:46.914 --> 01:07:57.088 - Yes, and sorry, Mr. Myers. Guy Lofman? Yes. Jeff Morris? Yes. Motion is approved, five to zero. Okay, 01:07:57.088 --> 01:08:07.062 - so moving on to the last three cases of the night. This is VAR-26-7A, VAR-26-7B and 7C. This is the 01:08:07.062 --> 01:08:14.942 - cost eco area to residential density maximum variance to chapter 823, the cost 01:08:15.202 --> 01:08:23.358 - side yard setback varies to chapter 804 and the cost minimum lot size variance to chapter 8. Sir, I 01:08:23.358 --> 01:08:31.840 - will turn it over to you for your first BZA case. Thank you. I appreciate the introduction. So the case 01:08:31.840 --> 01:08:39.262 - number is VAR267 or VAR-26-7. The request is a variance to chapter 823 for the residential 01:08:39.394 --> 01:08:47.117 - density maximum in eco area too, and variances to chapter 804 for the side yard setback and the minimum 01:08:47.117 --> 01:08:54.840 - lot size. So the purpose is to permit a residential storage structure, a carport, and an off-grid cabin 01:08:54.840 --> 01:09:02.266 - in the future. The property zone conservation residential 2.5, the lot is two acres, it's unplanted 01:09:02.266 --> 01:09:09.246 - in a butt stay road 446. There is a little bit of a discrepancy about the acreage of the lot. 01:09:09.858 --> 01:09:16.166 - and I'll get to that in a little bit. The lot does not meet the minimum lot size requirement of 2.5 01:09:16.166 --> 01:09:23.042 - acres per chapter 804 in the Monroe County Development Ordinance. The lot also does not meet the residential 01:09:23.042 --> 01:09:29.413 - density maximum of 2.5 acres for Eco Area 2 per chapter 823 in the CDO. The petitioner is requesting 01:09:29.413 --> 01:09:35.974 - to place a 20 foot by 30 foot carport structure on the property. It's a total of 600 square feet. There 01:09:35.974 --> 01:09:38.686 - exists a primary residence on the property 01:09:38.818 --> 01:09:46.305 - that the petitioner has already submitted a demolition permit for, and the record numbers there, that 01:09:46.305 --> 01:09:53.865 - has been partially demolished, the primary structure that is, that's exhibit three in the staff report 01:09:53.865 --> 01:10:01.205 - that was posted online, due to the petitioner's intent to remove the primary residential structure, 01:10:01.205 --> 01:10:07.518 - the property is now classified as vacant. With the property now classified as vacant, 01:10:07.842 --> 01:10:14.079 - The new proposed structure will be deemed a residential storage structure, which is defined in the county 01:10:14.079 --> 01:10:20.316 - development ordinance as a structure to be used for private non-commercial storage by the property owner. 01:10:20.316 --> 01:10:26.200 - Does not require the presence of a primary use on the same lot. If there is a presence of a primary 01:10:26.200 --> 01:10:32.201 - use on the same lot, the structure can instead follow the standards for an accessory structure. So as 01:10:32.201 --> 01:10:37.438 - the proposed structure no longer meets the criteria of an accessory structure due to the 01:10:37.826 --> 01:10:46.998 - Lack of a primary residence. It doesn't qualify for the reduced setbacks setback standards for an accessory 01:10:46.998 --> 01:10:55.576 - structure which have permitted the proposed structure up to five feet from the side yard per chapter 01:10:55.576 --> 01:11:03.390 - 8 11 To be as the proposed structure is less than 15 feet in height per their petitioner so 01:11:03.586 --> 01:11:11.188 - There's a little bit of a snippet that outlines that specific item and accessory building or structure 01:11:11.188 --> 01:11:18.717 - equal to or less than 15 feet in building height shall be permitted within five feet of rear and side 01:11:18.717 --> 01:11:26.246 - property lines. Staff has proposed alternative structure locations that meet setbacks and are located 01:11:26.246 --> 01:11:31.486 - in the buildable area. It's outlined in Exhibit 9 in the staff report. 01:11:31.650 --> 01:11:39.801 - This is the location map. As you can see in this location map, you see kind of that little sliver toward 01:11:39.801 --> 01:11:47.564 - the bottom of the lot there. And these are the site conditions. This is the site conditions map. So 01:11:47.564 --> 01:11:55.328 - moving forward. So here's the survey for the property. In this survey, it seems to reflect that the 01:11:55.328 --> 01:12:01.150 - property is 1.80 acres. Yeah. And this is the deed for the property, which 01:12:01.410 --> 01:12:08.738 - seems to reflect that the property is two acres. So that's where that kind of confusion about the acreage 01:12:08.738 --> 01:12:15.859 - of the lot is. But nonetheless, it's still under the 2.5 acre minimum requirement for both the minimum 01:12:15.859 --> 01:12:22.911 - lot size for the zoning district as well as for the residential density maximum of 2.5 acres. So here 01:12:22.911 --> 01:12:30.654 - are the CVR standards or dimensional standards. As you can see, the minimum lot size is 2.5 acres. And then for 01:12:30.786 --> 01:12:38.544 - The setbacks, the side yard for residential use is 15 feet. Here are the eco two area residential density 01:12:38.544 --> 01:12:46.301 - maximum standards. He cannot, the petitioner cannot meet item three, which states the maximum residential 01:12:46.301 --> 01:12:53.693 - density that shall be allowed shall be one unit per 2.5 acres. The petitioner's deed states that the 01:12:53.693 --> 01:12:55.230 - total acreage is two 01:12:56.002 --> 01:13:03.498 - acres in contrast the 2025 survey of the petition site shows that the total acreage is 1.8 give or take 01:13:03.498 --> 01:13:10.779 - acres therefore the lot requires a variance from this provision prior to any further development but 01:13:10.779 --> 01:13:18.636 - he can meet all other items outlined in this section here's here's the plot plan submitted by the petitioner 01:13:18.636 --> 01:13:20.798 - and you can see on the bottom 01:13:21.154 --> 01:13:29.206 - left portion or bottom left side of the property that he is planning on placing that carport structure 01:13:29.206 --> 01:13:37.258 - or the residential storage structure seven feet from the side yard there. Here is an aerial photograph 01:13:37.258 --> 01:13:45.232 - of the property per Eagle View. Another aerial photograph of the property per Eagle View. You can see 01:13:45.232 --> 01:13:50.782 - the primary residence right there, not far from the side yard as well. 01:13:52.610 --> 01:14:01.749 - So here are some alternative locations recommended by or proposed by staff that are compliant with these 01:14:01.749 --> 01:14:10.540 - setbacks and also are not located in the non-buildable area. Here's a photo of the primary residence 01:14:10.540 --> 01:14:19.070 - that is being, I guess it's in process of being demolished. This picture was taken on March 20th. 01:14:21.346 --> 01:14:30.865 - Here is a picture of a camper on the property. And here are a few pictures I'm gonna show of areas that 01:14:30.865 --> 01:14:40.110 - could be considered compliant that were kind of noted in the alternative placement locations. Here's 01:14:40.110 --> 01:14:49.903 - a photo of the gravel pad that staff believes may be where the applicant is proposing to place the carport 01:14:49.903 --> 01:14:50.910 - structure. 01:14:53.346 --> 01:15:04.885 - Another photo of the camper as well as compliant areas that the carport may be placed. Here's a 1976 01:15:04.885 --> 01:15:16.767 - plat from the auditor. The lot is reflected as lot 15 in this plat. Here is a letter of opposition from 01:15:16.767 --> 01:15:20.766 - the neighbor located to the south. 01:15:20.930 --> 01:15:28.887 - Some of the items that he's addressed have been adequately addressed already though, but this was included 01:15:28.887 --> 01:15:36.769 - in the staff report as well as an exhibit. And here's another photo that the neighbor to the south claims 01:15:36.769 --> 01:15:44.800 - that you can see an outhouse on the property as of March 20th, but you can't really see it in this picture. 01:15:44.800 --> 01:15:47.998 - So staff recommendations, approve the cost 01:15:48.130 --> 01:15:53.836 - eco area to residential density maximum variance as practical difficulties have been demonstrated as 01:15:53.836 --> 01:15:59.880 - the lot does not meet the maximum residential density acreage of 2.5 acres per one unit. And this variance 01:15:59.880 --> 01:16:05.529 - is the minimum needed to do any further development work on this property and to be able to grant a 01:16:05.529 --> 01:16:08.862 - permit for said work. Deny the side yard setback variance. 01:16:09.122 --> 01:16:14.906 - Practical difficulties have not been demonstrated by the petitioner as there are areas on the petitioner's 01:16:14.906 --> 01:16:20.420 - property where the carport can be located that would not require variance and approve the minimum lot 01:16:20.420 --> 01:16:26.042 - size variance as practical difficulties have been demonstrated as the property cannot meet the 2.5 acre 01:16:26.042 --> 01:16:31.664 - minimum lot size requirement without acquiring 0.7 acres or 0.5 acres for 10% deviation permitted under 01:16:31.664 --> 01:16:33.502 - the county development ordinance. 01:16:33.602 --> 01:16:39.525 - from an adjacent neighbor via administrative type E subdivision or rezoning to a zone with a smaller 01:16:39.525 --> 01:16:45.507 - lot size. This would be the minimum variance necessary for any new development on the property. Okay, 01:16:45.507 --> 01:16:51.371 - thank you Ray for the excellent job walking us through that presentation. So we can turn now to the 01:16:51.371 --> 01:16:57.236 - petitioner or petitioner's representative. Do we have petitioner sir, if you would come forward and 01:16:57.236 --> 01:16:58.878 - sign in, I'll swear you in. 01:17:22.530 --> 01:17:28.336 - Could you state your name and then raise your right hand? Joel Koss. Okay. Do you swear to tell the 01:17:28.336 --> 01:17:34.316 - truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Okay. You have 15 minutes to present your case 01:17:34.316 --> 01:17:40.123 - to us. So we bought this property simply off the fact that we wanted to kind of like a hunting camp 01:17:40.123 --> 01:17:45.929 - because we deer hunt a lot. And behind the property is all public land, Hoosier National Forest. We 01:17:45.929 --> 01:17:51.038 - don't really want to do much. We just want a small cabin that we can go to in the fall. 01:17:51.202 --> 01:17:57.959 - kind of get away and camp and then go behind the property and hunt. The way that the property is set 01:17:57.959 --> 01:18:04.916 - up right behind the trailer, it does slope down so that we really don't have much building room up top, 01:18:04.916 --> 01:18:11.606 - especially since we had to remove a driveway because of the DOT. So the carport was going to be set 01:18:11.606 --> 01:18:18.631 - to the side away from like on the south side. So when you pull in, there's plenty of room to turn around 01:18:18.631 --> 01:18:19.902 - and pull back out. 01:18:20.194 --> 01:18:26.323 - Mainly, that's just for storage. There's not gonna be much stuff going in there other than maybe firewood, 01:18:26.323 --> 01:18:32.109 - log splitter, a couple of camping gear. Other than that, that's basically it. We're wanting to build 01:18:32.109 --> 01:18:38.123 - a cabin, not this year, and it probably won't even be next year, because of funds. But eventually, we're 01:18:38.123 --> 01:18:44.195 - gonna probably build like a 30 by 30 cabin. And I don't even believe we're gonna be hooking to utilities. 01:18:44.195 --> 01:18:49.694 - We're gonna go solar and rainwater. But yeah, that's basically all I got. Okay, thank you, sir. 01:18:50.850 --> 01:18:58.889 - Any members of the VCA have questions for Mr. Cos? Yeah, sir. Sir, could you come back up so we can 01:18:58.889 --> 01:19:07.170 - hear you on the microphone when we ask questions? The concern is you're too close to the property line 01:19:07.170 --> 01:19:15.531 - with where you want to build this. Why can't you build it back when you wouldn't need a variance? Well, 01:19:15.531 --> 01:19:19.390 - because of the way the land grades slopes down. 01:19:19.618 --> 01:19:25.865 - We would have to bring in more dirt, which would cost us more money in the end. Plus, we don't really 01:19:25.865 --> 01:19:32.172 - want to disturb too much of the land. I mean, behind the trailer, it's kind of grown up naturally, and 01:19:32.172 --> 01:19:38.603 - it's returning to nature. And we don't really want to mess with any of that if we can help it. So that's 01:19:38.603 --> 01:19:45.278 - basically why we want to put it off to the side out of the way. Thank you. Any other questions for Mr. Koss? 01:19:47.586 --> 01:19:53.641 - Okay, you're welcome to have a seat. We'll turn to public comment next, and if anybody speaks against 01:19:53.641 --> 01:19:59.636 - this, you'll have five minutes to come back up to address their concerns. Okay, so let's turn now to 01:19:59.636 --> 01:20:05.631 - members of the public. Is there anyone here in the room who wishes to speak for this petition? Okay, 01:20:05.631 --> 01:20:11.864 - and then I'll turn online to see if there's anybody online who wishes to speak in favor of this petition 01:20:11.864 --> 01:20:14.238 - first. Raise your virtual hand, please. 01:20:15.586 --> 01:20:23.461 - Okay, seeing no one will turn back to the people in the room here who wish to speak against the petition. 01:20:23.461 --> 01:20:26.878 - If you could sign in, then I'll swear you in. 01:20:43.842 --> 01:20:52.482 - Okay, could you state your name and then raise your right hand? Catherine Greenman. Okay, do you swear 01:20:52.482 --> 01:21:01.122 - to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Okay, thank you. You'll have three 01:21:01.122 --> 01:21:09.342 - minutes. I am the tenant of 8370 South 446. My father is the owner of the property he sent in the 01:21:11.010 --> 01:21:21.845 - The information to you, the pictures of the outhouse. I guess that's our major concern is they seem 01:21:21.845 --> 01:21:32.680 - to have a lack of regard for local health code, building code, and zoning code. They moved in, they 01:21:32.680 --> 01:21:39.614 - built an outhouse less than a foot away from our property line. 01:21:39.810 --> 01:21:47.594 - that is still there. I have a picture that's a much better picture than the one I was able to get the 01:21:47.594 --> 01:21:55.225 - other day. If I could approach and... Yeah, if you could approach and hit it to this. Sorry, if you 01:21:55.225 --> 01:22:03.237 - want to hand us the picture and then go back to the microphone, we need to keep your comments on record. 01:22:03.237 --> 01:22:09.342 - Thank you. Okay. You see the outhouse with the circle window and then the white 01:22:09.442 --> 01:22:17.653 - steak with the white tip. I know my color died in my printer, unfortunately, but you can clearly see 01:22:17.653 --> 01:22:26.271 - that it is directly on the property line. It's not even two feet over. I have concerns about that because 01:22:26.271 --> 01:22:34.401 - it's an outhouse. I have children. We use our yard. We use the woods behind our house. I'm not sure 01:22:34.401 --> 01:22:36.190 - exactly what outhouse 01:22:37.250 --> 01:22:45.401 - Where if that's being contained if that's draining into the creek behind the house what's happening 01:22:45.401 --> 01:22:53.715 - there? So that's certainly a concern This previous fall they I guess as he stated wanted to use it as 01:22:53.715 --> 01:23:02.110 - a deer camp and That meant for several weeks this fall there were 10 to 20 people roughly there at any 01:23:02.110 --> 01:23:06.430 - given time with multiple tents fires every night and 01:23:06.722 --> 01:23:16.378 - deer carcasses hanging roughly on the property line. I don't have a problem with them building there. 01:23:16.378 --> 01:23:26.224 - I don't have a problem with them having a carport. I do not want it against our property line. I'd like 01:23:26.224 --> 01:23:36.638 - as much buffer as the zoning gives for that, just to keep as much of that away from the property as possible. 01:23:37.058 --> 01:23:45.947 - I feel like it could be a liability with my children, with people that they have coming to the property, 01:23:45.947 --> 01:23:54.412 - being so close to our property, having that many people on the property at a time, drinking, fires, 01:23:54.412 --> 01:24:02.878 - loud music, that kind of thing. So we're asking that you did variance for the side yard setback and 01:24:04.514 --> 01:24:12.009 - Do you have any other questions about the location of the buildings that have already been put on the 01:24:12.009 --> 01:24:19.578 - property without permitting or zoning or any? We typically don't have back and forth conversation with 01:24:19.578 --> 01:24:27.588 - commoners that are coming up to speak, but thank you. No, that's fine. They've moved in and they immediately 01:24:27.588 --> 01:24:33.246 - started building. They previously had their camper less than three feet from 01:24:33.506 --> 01:24:43.214 - 446 and had built a shed on 446 like less than three feet back. I just feel if the variance is allowed 01:24:43.214 --> 01:24:52.639 - that they will take liberties with that variance and with the property and I don't I don't think it 01:24:52.639 --> 01:24:54.430 - should be allowed. 01:24:55.362 --> 01:25:02.681 - Okay, thank you for sharing your comments. Do we have anybody else who wishes to speak against this? 01:25:02.681 --> 01:25:10.290 - If you're in the room, you're welcome to come to the podium. If you're online, please raise your virtual 01:25:10.290 --> 01:25:17.754 - hand. Okay, not seeing anyone, we will close public comment. Mr. Koss, if you wish to come forward and 01:25:17.754 --> 01:25:24.638 - speak to the concerns you've heard, you have five minutes. To address the outhouse, temporary. 01:25:24.930 --> 01:25:31.974 - We plan on having somebody come out. There is a septic tank on the property. We cannot use it until 01:25:31.974 --> 01:25:39.017 - we can have it inspected. Until then, I built it temporarily to use while I demolished the trailer. 01:25:39.017 --> 01:25:46.272 - And as far as deer season, it's just our family, roughly 10 to about 15. And we usually go home during 01:25:46.272 --> 01:25:53.316 - the week. Other than that, I don't have a problem moving the carport. It just cuts back on the room 01:25:53.316 --> 01:25:54.302 - that we have. 01:25:54.498 --> 01:26:01.406 - up on the top of that hill. So that would be all. Okay, thank you, sir. So we will come back now to 01:26:01.406 --> 01:26:08.314 - members of the BZA for conversation. Yeah, just as a matter of clarification for staff, an outhouse 01:26:08.314 --> 01:26:15.291 - doesn't have the rule. I mean, he's just told us that he's going to hook into a septic system, which 01:26:15.291 --> 01:26:22.406 - that's a legitimate concern. I can understand that. Are there any rules for outhouses or none? I don't 01:26:22.406 --> 01:26:23.166 - even know. 01:26:25.538 --> 01:26:33.290 - So we did learn recently, I think there's been some state law changes that there is a way to permit. 01:26:33.290 --> 01:26:41.349 - I think it's called a private privy that is directly over top of a septic system. But we were made aware 01:26:41.349 --> 01:26:49.101 - of the outhouse concern based on this remonstrance letter. And we were planning on just following up 01:26:49.101 --> 01:26:52.094 - with the health department separately. 01:26:52.354 --> 01:27:00.462 - Is the implication that you can't just put a privy up on your property unless you have a septic system? 01:27:00.462 --> 01:27:08.336 - You can't just dump your... Correct. Yeah, there's not a way forward for just an outhouse or compost 01:27:08.336 --> 01:27:16.210 - toilet typically. That's not really... Right. Thank you. Any other thoughts from members of the BCA? 01:27:16.210 --> 01:27:21.278 - Well, I don't see any compelling reason not to apply the normal. 01:27:21.538 --> 01:27:30.160 - ordinance here. It's inconvenient, but these ordinances are almost always inconvenient for people who 01:27:30.160 --> 01:27:38.867 - wish they weren't in this way. But especially where we have neighbors who are right up against it with 01:27:38.867 --> 01:27:47.659 - kids, and I think it's appropriate to say we're going to require you to meet the standard requirements. 01:27:47.659 --> 01:27:50.110 - So that's what I would vote. 01:27:52.162 --> 01:28:08.501 - I'm prepared to make a motion on approving variance 26-7A and variance 26-7C, that's 7 alpha and 7 Charlie, 01:28:08.501 --> 01:28:18.334 - based on practical difficulties being demonstrated. Second that. 01:28:20.098 --> 01:28:29.791 - We have a motion to approve 7A and 7C. Okay, I'll go ahead and call the roll on just 7A, which is the 01:28:29.791 --> 01:28:39.674 - eco area to residential density maximum, and 7C, which is the minimum lot size variance to chapter 804. 01:28:39.674 --> 01:28:48.702 - A vote yes is a vote to approve 7A and 7C. Skip Daly? Yes. Guy Loftman? Yes. Jeff Morris? Yes. 01:28:49.826 --> 01:29:18.334 - Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. 01:29:18.498 --> 01:29:26.177 - I can't even believe that was called a primary residence, but it's got to be delightful to have that 01:29:26.177 --> 01:29:33.933 - being removed. It's just got to be. So it's all about the placement of the carport. And the one thing 01:29:33.933 --> 01:29:41.916 - I have forgotten is in terms of the setback variance, how far off are they from where they want to place 01:29:41.916 --> 01:29:46.174 - it versus if it got moved and it wouldn't be a problem? 01:29:46.722 --> 01:29:56.026 - How many feet or is it? From the side yard, it's eight feet short of meeting the minimum restriction 01:29:56.026 --> 01:30:05.422 - of 15 feet. So it's about half of it? Yeah, a little over half, yeah. Okay. Any other comments? Do we 01:30:05.422 --> 01:30:14.910 - have a motion? Maybe I'm missing the size of the overall size of the carport that's being recommended. 01:30:15.298 --> 01:30:24.607 - Yeah, it's 20 by 30, so 600 square feet. 600. And so it's a 20 by 30, and it pushed seven feet one direction. 01:30:24.607 --> 01:30:33.578 - Yeah, it's encroaching on the side yard. Well, it would be encroaching on the side yard. And it's current 01:30:33.578 --> 01:30:42.718 - placement's seven feet from the south property line, which is the side yard. The property line, OK. Thanks. 01:30:43.362 --> 01:30:50.240 - Mr. Cost, I saw your hand, but sorry, we're past the point of speaking with the petitioner. We're at 01:30:50.240 --> 01:30:57.186 - BZA conversation now. Thank you. There's just one thing that is compelling me to speak, and it's just 01:30:57.186 --> 01:31:03.997 - about kind of this idea of community. You know, of course we're here in an official proceeding, and 01:31:03.997 --> 01:31:11.079 - you are neighbors. And there's nothing that we can do that just promotes good relationships with people 01:31:11.079 --> 01:31:13.054 - surrounding us. And although 01:31:13.314 --> 01:31:21.124 - We're making decisions that impact you both. One thing that we do try to strive for and stress is just 01:31:21.124 --> 01:31:28.783 - like consideration of neighbors because we're all in this together. So that's one thing that kind of 01:31:28.783 --> 01:31:36.593 - doesn't need to be said, but I know that I'll sleep better having said it. We just encourage everybody 01:31:36.593 --> 01:31:41.598 - to just try to be considerate and work with the neighbors because 01:31:41.890 --> 01:31:52.124 - That's who we are, you know, so that's one thing I wanted to say. Thank you for indulging me. 01:31:52.124 --> 01:32:03.119 - Thank you, Ms. Clements. Hey, do we have a motion? I move to, I've got a little tiny writing here. I 01:32:03.119 --> 01:32:05.950 - move to deny variance 27, 01:32:06.146 --> 01:32:15.862 - 6-7B cost side yard setback variance to Chapter 804 because there's no compelling need to move from 01:32:15.862 --> 01:32:26.259 - the variance. I do want to say to Mr. Cross, I think it's great your family comes down and stays together. 01:32:26.259 --> 01:32:35.198 - I know that they say the family that hunts together stays together, but I think that it's a 01:32:35.298 --> 01:32:43.396 - It's good that your family is caring about these things and preserving the land here, but I think there's 01:32:43.396 --> 01:32:51.342 - no reason not to comply with our zoning ordinances, and especially where you do have a nearby neighbor. 01:32:51.342 --> 01:32:59.211 - Say, you know, if there was nobody for the next 20 acres, I might be more sympathetic, but you do have 01:32:59.211 --> 01:33:05.246 - an adjacent neighbor, so I move no. 59. Do we have a second? I'll second that. 01:33:06.658 --> 01:33:17.760 - Okay, it's been moved and seconded to deny VAR-26-7B, which is the side yard setback variance to Chapter 01:33:17.760 --> 01:33:23.998 - 804. A vote yes is a vote to deny the variance. Skip Daly. 01:33:39.682 --> 01:33:48.160 - I don't know that the practical difficulty was met. I don't know that I have a problem with it personally, 01:33:48.160 --> 01:33:56.163 - but as a board member, I think I had to say yes. Guy Lofman? Yes. Jeff Morris? Yes. Pamela Davidson? 01:33:56.163 --> 01:34:04.483 - I'm going to vote no because the neighbor said she was not concerned about the placement of the carport. 01:34:04.483 --> 01:34:08.286 - She was concerned about the outhouse, which got 01:34:08.418 --> 01:34:17.178 - dealt with. But technically you're right Mr. Glofman, the ordinance says what the ordinance says, but 01:34:17.178 --> 01:34:26.024 - I'm going to vote now. Margaret Clements. Yes. Yes. Okay. So the motion to deny the AR-26-7B, the side 01:34:26.024 --> 01:34:34.956 - yard setback, does proceed by a vote of four to one. So that means that the petitioner will be required 01:34:34.956 --> 01:34:37.790 - to meet the 15 foot side setback 01:34:37.922 --> 01:34:45.867 - for the residential storage structure. Okay, thank you, Mr. Kossin, to the neighbor who came out and 01:34:45.867 --> 01:34:53.891 - spoke. Thank you, we appreciate it. So I believe that takes us to the end of our agenda. May I? Sure. 01:34:53.891 --> 01:35:01.837 - And just for references for the community, if there are enforcement questions that community members 01:35:01.837 --> 01:35:07.422 - have, do they contact the Planning Department? They can start with us. 01:35:07.586 --> 01:35:17.184 - a lot of complaints and direct them in the right place. So we do try to offer that service to all community 01:35:17.184 --> 01:35:26.426 - members. Mr. Koss, I'd like to say that I have a herd of 36 deer that come through my property. They're 01:35:26.426 --> 01:35:35.579 - annoying to me. So if your family is looking for a prosperous place to hunt. I just wanted to put that 01:35:35.579 --> 01:35:37.534 - out there. Thank you. 01:35:38.114 --> 01:35:43.497 - I think that brings us to the end of the agenda, so we have a motion for adjournment. I move to adjourn. 01:35:43.497 --> 01:35:44.830 - Thank you all. Thank you.