- Good evening, everyone. I will call to order the April 1st meeting of the Board of Zoning Appeals. Ms.
- Nestor-Gellin, would you start us off by calling the roll? Sure. Mayor Clements here. Yeah. Tech Services,
- could you turn up the audio, please? Is that any better? Okay. Okay. Good. Ms. Nestor-Gellin. Skip Daly.
- present. Pamela Davidson? Here. Guy Loftman? Here. Jeff Morris? Here. Okay, five members in person in
- a quorum. Could you please introduce the evidence for tonight? Sure.
- I'd like to introduce the following items into the evidence. The Monroe County Development Ordinance
- as adopted and amended. The Monroe County Zoning and Subdivision Control Ordinance as adopted and amended.
- The Monroe County Comprehensive Plan as adopted and amended. The Monroe County Board of Zoning and Appeals
- Rules of Procedure as adopted and amended. And the cases that were legally advertised and scheduled
- for a hearing on tonight's agenda.
- Sorry. No, go ahead. I will motion to approve the evidence. I will second that. It's been moved and
- seconded to approve the introduction of evidence. A vote yes is a vote to approve. Skip Daly? Yes. Pamela
- Davidson? Yes. Guy Lofman? Yes. Jeff Morris? Yes. Margaret Clements? Yes. Motion is approved, five to zero.
- Okay, and for our agenda tonight, we've had a recommendation from staff that we move item number four
- under new business up to item number one under new business due to the petitioner coming forward to
- request a continuation tonight. So could we get a motion to approve that change to the agenda? So moved.
- You have a second? I will second that. Okay, it's been moved and seconded to approve tonight's agenda.
- with one change, which is item number four, VAR-26-6, which is the Companelle residential storage structure
- variance to chapter 811 on West Williams Road. That will be moved up to the first item under new business.
- And since the other item under old business is continued, it will be the first thing that is heard.
- A vote yes is a vote to approve the amended agenda as stated. Pamela Davidson? Yes. Guy Loftman? Yes.
- Jeff Morris. Yes. Margaret Clements. Yes. Skilly. Yes. Motion is approved, five to zero. I'd like to
- move that we approve the minutes from the February 4th and the March 4th meetings of the Board of Zoning
- Appeals. I'll second that. It's been moved and seconded to approve the February 4th and March 4th, 2026
- meeting minutes. A vote yes is a vote to approve. Guy Loftman. Yes.
- Jeff Morris? Yes. Margaret Clements? Yes. Skip Daly? Present. Pamela Davidson? Yes. Motion is approved,
- four to zero.
- Okay, we have no administrative business tonight and the only item under old business VAR-25-52A has
- been continued to May 6th, 2026. So we'll move on to new business and the first item has been continued,
- which is VAR-25-49 has been continued to August 5th of 2026. So we will move on to the
- Next item that we approved to go first, which is VAR-26-6. This is the Campanella residential storage
- structure varies to Chapter 811. So my understanding is the petitioner would like to make their case
- for us to extend this to a future meeting. Tech Services, if you could unmute Bethany Robinson.
- My name is Robinson. Tech Services is going to promote you so you can unmute. Okay, can you hear me?
- Yeah, if you could raise your right hand, state your name and then. Do I need to turn my? Nothing about
- the truth. Do you want my camera on? If you're able to, yes, please. Okay, yeah, hang on just a second.
- Okay, hang on.
- Oh my gosh, sorry. Okay, is that working? Yes, can you raise your right hand and. The truth. To tell
- the whole truth, the truth, I'm sorry, I was cutting out. The whole truth. Do you swear to tell the
- truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Yes, I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and
- nothing but the truth.
- as to why you would like to continue your petition. Yes and I apologize for not being there in person
- and I have some lovely shingles going on so anyhow we would like to continue. We just got the staff
- report back recently and have been in discussion with the staff and with that we're discussing all of
- our options before I would present in May to decide exactly what we're going to
- Do we're discussing moving the property line, combining lot one and lot two to satisfy staff's request
- before we present. OK, thank you. Do you have a date in mind or a month in mind that you wish to continue
- this too? As soon as possible, I don't see any reason that we couldn't do it in May unless you all see
- a reason. OK, Mr. Jelen, will the May agenda work for this?
- Yes. Okay. Okay. Thank you, ma'am, and I hope you feel better soon. All right. Thank you. Turning back
- now to members of the BZA, do we have a motion to continue this to the May board zoning appeals meeting?
- I move we continue variance 26-6, the Campanella residential storage structure variance to chapter 811,
- hopefully to the May 2026 meeting. Second.
- It's been moved and seconded to continue case VAR-26-6, the Campanella residential storage structure
- variance to May 6th, 2026, the next Board of Zoning Appeals meeting here in this room at 5.30 PM. A
- vote yes is a vote to approve the continuance. Margaret Clements? Yes. Skip Daley? Yes. Guy Loftman?
- Yes. Jeff Morris? Yes.
- Thank you. Thank you. Pamela Davidson. Yes and I want to thank them for working with staff to accommodate
- and work things out and bring us a more finished product. I really appreciate that. Thank you. Motion
- is approved five to zero to continue. Thank you. Okay so moving on to the next item on the agenda. This
- is CDU dash 25-10. This is the Holloway Homes LLC Agricultural
- I just interrupt for just one minute. If there are people here who are attending either for the Donovan
- buildable area on Rockport Road or for Blackwell on South Old State Road 37 or the Campanella residential
- storage unit on
- Williams Road, those cases will not be heard tonight. So you're free to leave or you're welcome to stay
- to hear the other cases that maybe you're not interested in. But I just wanted to make sure that we
- were clear about that. Yeah. Thank you for clarifying that. Thank you. Okay. Mr. Brown. And as to Holloway
- Homes, am I correct that this is the staff recommends approval with conditions? With conditions. Yeah. Yes.
- That being the case, I'm considering moving... Because it's conditions, I would... Well, I think if
- the petitioners accept the conditions, then I think we have a history of saying if they accept
- the conditions, then we can proceed with the shortened version.
- Go ahead and find out if there's numbers of the public here for comment. We have a procedure we sometimes
- do where I'll move the previous question and we'll do a dispose of this case relatively quickly if there
- is nobody in the public who is opposed to the petition and if the petitioner is willing to agree to
- the conditions that the staff has set forth.
- And can I add one more thing, number three, if the petitioner wishes to state something about their
- case, because then it's on the public record. So maybe that is a number three reason they might choose
- to do that. If they want to, that would be sensible too. So if there's no objection, I would. Yes. Yes, it is.
- Okay, you have you you have objection to it. Okay, very good. Well, we will proceed without a the trunk
- without the shortened and thank you for bringing this to our attention and we'll we'll listen to the
- staff now. Thank you. So the petitioner is proposing to establish a wedding and event venue here in
- 25th and 2025. The petitioner filed a use determination with the county under USC 2541. During review,
- it was found that
- One of the proposals the petitioner had for this property was an agricultural event center large, and
- under the CDO, an agricultural event center is a conditional use, so this approval is required for that
- to be permitted. Chapter 850 defines agricultural event center as follows, an event center located on
- a lot that is primarily used for agricultural purposes.
- includes areas where indoor and or outdoor activities such as weddings, receptions, banquets, corporate
- events and other such gatherings are hosted in return for compensation. The use does must be accessory
- to a primary agricultural use and per the petitioner the primary agricultural use will be a Christmas
- tree farm and a flower farm. And the discussion portion follow
- goes through the findings of facts that were present in the staff report. Would the board like me to
- go through them? I don't believe you need to. I'm familiar with them. All right. And here are maps of
- the areas, such as the location area and as well as the zoning map, as well as the comprehensive plan
- map and the site conditions map.
- This is a map that I want to bring to the board's attention because it reserves an area that is marked
- as prime agricultural land. Specifically, the area where my mouse is is roughly where the petitioner
- is proposing to locate the event center, and that is considered prime agricultural land per the county
- development ordinance.
- I apologize, I'm trying to find it. Yes, here we go. An event center in the AGR zone and its associated
- areas such as parking, decks, and patios shall not occur within current agricultural production areas
- on a parcel designated as prime farmland in the Web Soil Survey National Resources Conservation Service
- and United States Department of Agriculture unless otherwise specified in the conditional use permit.
- And it is based on the wording in the county development ordinance. We believe that the Board of Zoning
- Appeals has the authority to waive this requirement.
- It is noted that while there is area on the property where the petitioner could relocate the proposed
- structure so that they are not in prime farmland, said areas would not let him meet the required 200
- foot setbacks for any of the structures and parking areas. And here are just some photos of the property.
- As it stands right now, there is an existing home and some accessory structures on the property.
- Those are intended to stay because at some point in the future, the petitioner is proposing a sliding
- scale subdivision to create three additional lots, one of which will be exclusively for the event center,
- and the other three will be residential lots, though that has yet to be heard. And this is the petitioner's
- site plan showing the proposed location of the Christmas tree farm, the flower farm, as well as the
- parking and event center.
- And so staff recommends approval of, as the petitioner has sufficiently demonstrated, that they will
- be able to fulfill all the use-specific standards under Chapter 811 with the following conditions. One,
- the petitioner's ability to obtain a right of way activity permit for commercial use. Should the right
- of way activity permit be denied, the use shall not be permitted. And two, the petitioner can be permitted
- to utilize gravel for parking areas, except that all required
- ADA spaces and access to the event center structures shall be paved to provide for proper ADA access.
- And the Board of Zoning Appeals also has the ability to waive the requirements for the proposed event
- center and parking lot to not be relocated on prime farmland as indicated in the packet by findings
- of fact and exhibit number six. Is that everything you have to share, Daniel?
- Yes, I'll take any questions. Okay. Let's go ahead and turn to the petitioner or petitioner's representative.
- Do we have somebody representing this petition? Sir, if you could come forward and sign in. Yeah, if
- you could come to the podium. If you could sign in and then I'll swear you in.
- Okay, if you could raise your right hand and state your name. Tyler Holloway. Okay, and do you swear
- to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Okay, thank you. You'll have 15
- minutes. I guess I don't have much to say other than I do agree to the conditions that have been set
- by the planning department. Plan not to be any hindrance, follow all the rules and guidelines, noise
- ordinance, all that stuff. Don't have much to say outside of that.
- Thank you, sir. Do any members of the BZA have questions for Mr. Holloway while he's at the podium?
- When, if this is allowed, when will this construction happen and the event space open? If everything
- goes perfectly, I'd hope to break ground this fall and hopefully be up and running by the spring. Wow,
- fast. That's in a perfect world. Perfect world.
- Okay, thank you, sir. You're welcome to have a seat. If anybody speaks out against the petition, you're
- welcome to come back up for a five minute rebuttal at the end. Thank you. Okay. We can turn now to members
- of the public. So if there's anyone here in the audience who wishes to speak again, let's start with
- against this petition first. We'll start with anybody who's against this petition. Yeah, if you could
- sign in and then I'll swear you in.
- Okay, could you pull the microphone down so it's right in front of your face? Thank you. Raise your
- right hand and state your name. Bill Hayes, William Hayes III. Okay, do you swear to tell the truth,
- the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Okay, you'll have three minutes. My 22 acres, which
- is Sycamore Land Trust Conservation Easement, abuts this property. And it is a wildlife animal refuge,
- obviously. There's a pond there. There's a 200-year-old white oak tree.
- I bought the property from the Sylvester family in 1977 and live in a 1915 built home on the property.
- And the last thing I want is construction noise at the top of the, it's west of my home. There's a stand
- of trees that is a wonderful
- Because I'm on the highway, there's a stand of trees there. There's a fence. I have a horse and a donkey.
- There's an area fenced in. Beyond the fence, which is still my property, is a line of trees. And it's
- a wonderful sound barrier from the trucks and things that pass on 37. And by the way,
- If you've been on this stretch of Smithville Road, there are two blind spots on the road. You literally
- can't see traffic coming. One to the west, one to the east. It's just a dangerous stretch of the road.
- And I simply value the privacy. The last thing I want is a wedding venue with loud noise, and not to
- mention construction of homes, and how disturbing that will be
- to my property. Sycamore Land Trust will own it at my death. It's now a conservation easement. Okay,
- thank you, sir. Welcome. Is there anyone else here in the room who wishes to speak against this petition?
- And if you do speak, please make sure you just sign in. Yeah. Steve Kinzer and I'm a neighbor. Okay.
- Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes, I do. OK. If you could
- sign in, and then you'll have three minutes. Yes, I will. Well, after Jerry passed away, the previous
- owner and stuff, I went and helped and mowed all this property, bush hogged it a couple of times a year,
- because I'm the neighbor next to them.
- Part of that property had had a, when they built 37 there had a big stripper pit all the way through
- it. So it had been dumped in for a lot of years, drywall, just different things and off and on. But
- probably some of the drywall was probably good fill and everything else. But I don't know, it's a real
- narrow, real narrow strip that goes back through there. And I just don't know. Actually, when I first
- started doing it when Jerry was still alive, I took my tractor,
- to go through his driveway and just about got ran over from somebody heading back there. So I went and
- cut a hole in the back of my fence for I could go back there and mow. And so there's a lot of danger
- pulling them now there. I don't know if anybody's familiar with Smithville Road, but they drive way
- too fast down there. And I'm a race driver. And I think there was a race driver. And it's unbelievable
- the speeds they run up and down through there. And there's an awful narrow strip.
- The only other thing I know is when I was mowing it all the time on top of the hill, it was always really
- a soft spot. I mean, my tractor just bogged down. So I think there might be a spring right up on the
- tops. It's something you might want to check into. Other than that, I just think the more vehicles going
- out, it's pretty dangerous. And it's a beautiful place. There's a lot of eagles nesting those trees
- and stuff back in there. But it's not my property. But I just wanted to let you know what I felt like.
- Thank you.
- Thank you, sir. If we could have the next person come forward that wishes to speak against this. If
- you could sign in and then raise your right hand, I'll swear you in.
- Anthony Permisi, and I live at, oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, could you, do you swear to tell the truth, the
- whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Okay, thank you. You'll have three minutes. Yeah, I'm Anthony
- Permisi, otherwise known as Tony Permisi. I live at 270 Smithville Road. I'm on one of Steve's properties
- there. And the only comments I have on it is the accessibility to the place because we came up here and
- You can't even see where you turn in there, too. There's like a hill there and you can't see that to
- turn into your right there. So somebody's pulling out of there and going toward the highway. It's very
- dangerous. And the other thing I wanted to mention that Steve didn't mention on Smithville Road, we
- don't have much water pressure. Water pressure is real low on that road. We have southern Monroe water.
- And it's always been a problem, which Steve can attest to. And I'm afraid if they put more housing and
- other things in there, we're going to have less pressure. So I don't know what else to add other than
- the danger, dangerous area where you have to pull in and out and the water pressure. Like I say, he
- said about the spring at the top of the hill there. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, sir.
- If we could have the next person in the audience who wishes to speak against us come forward.
- You can sign in, I'll swear you in after that.
- Okay, could you state your name? Robert Billingham. Okay, do you swear to tell the truth, the whole
- truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Okay, you have three minutes. I have basically two comments to
- make. I live at 380 East Smithville Road. When I moved with my family into that property, one of the
- things that was brought to my attention, and I think it was mentioned earlier, is there is a dump area back
- either on the kinders or over on the property that's been used for probably what would now be considered
- toxic substances like diesel fuel or motor oil, those kinds of things. And so at the very least, I think
- that needs to be examined in some way to determine whether that exists or not and to what degree of
- toxicity there may or may not be.
- The second thing is a more personal thing. We all have five-acre lots that we live on. And this idea
- of an event area is very concerning. And so one of the questions that I would have is how large of an
- event or how many people would that event center be designed to hold? Are we talking 20, 40, 50? Are
- we talking hundreds?
- It says wedding venue, so that sounds to me as if it's going to be very large. Sounds like there's going
- to be a lot of band or music that will be very loud. We know how those things work. And there will be,
- in some situations, inappropriate alcohol or drug consumption. And so on top of the danger of them coming out,
- onto Smithville Road and either trying to get to 37 or up the hill, I think we can predict unless there
- are major modifications to Smithville Road and traffic redesign for the in and out, there will be many,
- many accidents in the future. And so I think that really needs to be considered seriously because if
- you have not seen it,
- My friends are not exaggerating. It's an extraordinarily dangerous turning off of 37 onto Smithville
- Road. You're going up to a hill you cannot see over, and it's very short, and there will be people coming
- that way. At the end of these events, there'll be people turning right, turning left in a very, very
- dangerous situation, and the road just is not designed to handle that at this point.
- I would speak against this. I don't like the noise. I live where I live because it's quiet. There are
- a lot of animals, and this public event thing just really seems to go against everything that we have
- back there right now, which is basically peace and quiet in a very natural environment. Thank you.
- Thank you, sir. Do we have anybody else here in the room who wishes to speak against this petition?
- If not, we can turn to our community members on Teams. If there's anyone on Teams who wishes to speak
- against this petition, please raise your virtual hand. I was asking for anyone on Teams on the virtual
- platform who wishes to speak against this to raise their hand. Seeing no one, we will come back to the
- room. If there's anybody here in the room who wishes to speak in favor of this petition, you're welcome
- to come to the podium now.
- Okay, seeing no one, we'll turn to teams. If there's anyone on teams who wishes to speak in favor of
- this petition, please raise your virtual hand. Okay, not seeing anyone, we can turn back now to Mr.
- Holloway. If you wish to speak in rebuttal to any of the comments you heard against the petition, you're
- welcome to come back forward for five more minutes. You're not obligated to, but you're welcome to.
- Pardon me, Mr. Chair. If I could be recognized prior to his speaking,
- quick question of clarification that will, for staff, for me to process his rebuttal, if that's okay.
- Mr. Brown, I'm hearing largely from those that have spoken in opposition to this proposal, three major
- things that, for me, summarizing are the potential water issue, the noise issue, and
- traffic. And then I'm also hearing about houses. Seeing and hear that this approval is for the agricultural
- event center, not for the flower farm or for the Christmas tree or for a potential sliding scale subdivision.
- Am I correct in thinking the decision that we're weighing tonight is
- only the event center on this property? That's my understanding, yes. Okay. That is correct, but I would
- ask the petitioner if they're interested or willing to put in the flower farm or Christmas tree farm
- if they do not get the agricultural event center. So I think that there is a requirement that there's
- a primary agricultural activity on the property to do the event center. So if they do not have that,
- then they may not do the other things.
- but it's zoned appropriately for the farm activity, correct? That's correct. Okay, I'm just trying to
- make sure I understand. Thanks. Okay, thank you. Yeah, let's turn to the petitioner now. I want to make
- sure we're following procedure here, but thank you.
- you'll have five minutes to speak to any of the comments that you heard. Okay. So I think the first
- thing I just want to make clear is we are no longer planning to build houses. We are just wanting to
- build the event center and do the farming activities. I think as far as the traffic, we're going to
- make sure we can make it as safe as possible. The water is something we've looked into. I live on Zikes
- Road, have the same water and I seem to have plenty fine pressure. So as far as that,
- I just wanted it to be clear, we're not attempting to build houses anymore, just the event center. So
- I think that's it. Okay. While you're up there, do any members of the BZA have questions for Mr. Holloway?
- I have one. Is there a cap on the number of people who would be attending your events? Based on the
- land we own, the max we could do is 300.
- We plan to obviously abide by that. And then I guess the other thing I'll address is the noise. We plan
- to be plenty far away from any of the neighbors. Obviously we have the ordinance of inside or less than
- 60 decibels by 10 p.m. at night. We plan to follow that very strictly and make sure everything's shut
- down or inside at a quiet level by that time. I have a question. Noise was
- Obviously a large concern for a recurring theme. The location that you chose versus what planning staff
- said, there were potentially some other options on there. Do you feel that the choice that you've made
- for where you're proposing to build this offers less or more opportunity to buffer
- I believe, because we're doing it in that very last track, the land, which is the only one that's wide
- enough with our 200 foot setbacks to be able to build. But that also gets us as far as possible away
- from any neighbors. It's the farthest backtrack. So it'll be as far possible away from any of the neighbors.
- And a follow up question. Traffic would be another recurring theme here, obviously, with concerns for
- neighbors. And we take these concerns pretty seriously. Yeah.
- What have you done to, have you spoken with folks involving traffic, whether that be the Monroe County
- Highway Department or whether it be, and I don't know exactly where, have you had the traffic studies
- take done and assessed? I haven't dove too deep into the traffic yet, just because without the approval,
- I didn't know how much I needed to do. I've spoke with Ben from the highway department plenty of times
- about obviously having a commercial driveway, two lanes, a possible shoulder
- So people aren't in the middle of the road waiting for people to get in and out. But that's about the
- extent of that so far. And could you share with us his reaction when you talked about the project as
- a whole? Did he share any thoughts? The initial was when we were attempting to build houses. So we were
- going to try and put a second driveway in. That was not approved because of the location. But he said
- so far that where the driveway is now is
- in a good location. Thank you. Any additional questions for Mr. Holloway? I have one. And I'm going
- to ask staff about this, but one of the conditions, let me see, is that you'd be permitted to utilize
- gravel for parking areas except for ADA. Correct.
- We spend an amazing amount of time talking about gravel in this board. And usually, and I want to check
- with staff about the basis for this exception. If you had to pave, well, okay. So, and let me, if you
- don't mind, why don't you, Mr. Brown, would you
- address why we would have, what would the normal standard be and is gravel lower than that standard?
- So under our parking chapter, we do require asphalt typically for parking lots. Gravel can be an exception
- to that for certain situations. One is if you have like temporary or overflow parking,
- Or if you're not in an urban area and it's under 10 parking spaces. Or I think there's another exception
- in the ordinance about like private storage.
- vehicles or of equipment but under the Conditions for this conditional use it does state very specifically
- if Daniel can go to that condition That the BZA has the ability to approve the drop the parking lot
- as gravel So keep going
- Okay, so it says under 1A, parking. It says that parking areas shall follow the requirements of chapter
- 814, which would require paving. But then it says, however, the surfacing requirements for driveways
- and parking lots may be able to utilize gravel or crushed stone if deemed appropriate by the border
- zoning appeals and is directly requested by the petitioner during the meeting. All ADA spaces must comply
- with federal standards
- including surfacing requirements. And the reason that the CDO is written this way is that the purpose
- of this use is to support an existing, hopefully, or to be existing, primary agricultural use. And so
- if you have pavement and you're running your equipment back and forth over it to, say, do hay
- Or in his case, he's going to be doing a flower farm and Christmas tree farm. We've heard complaints
- that pavement over ag land is not a good situation. So we've allowed a gravel component, if approved
- by you all. In this scenario, though, he is kind of in a very long, skinny parcel.
- So you may say that he could pave it without any problems associated with still doing the Christmas
- tree farm or the flower farm. So if you think dust might be a complaint or an issue, you could say I
- don't agree with the gravel and make it paved. I additionally want to mention that once he gets to the
- site plan stage, we will be evaluating maximum impervious cover. And if it's over, which we assume it might be,
- He may be back for future variances if this use is granted. So I don't know if that was something you
- were also getting out with the gravel versus asphalt. Thank you. Mr. Damon. I have one more question
- for the petitioner, if you don't mind. There was also a couple of folks that mentioned event center.
- They're not. I might. Capacity.
- What are we talking about with the capacity, and could you go into a little bit about the type of events
- and the numbers that you're expecting? I mean, obviously, like I said, the maximum would be 300 that
- we can do. I don't foresee a ton of events having 300, but we have a minimum, or the minimum for 300
- people is 15 acres. We have 23.
- We're gonna have a building that's big enough for that. Like I said, I don't know how often that'll
- be achieved, but yeah, so 300 would be the max. Maximum 300, okay. And the parking situation for the
- 300, even with the farm being present on there? Yeah, I believe the requirement is one space for every
- two and a half people, so we're planning for 150 parking spaces, which well exceeds that. And another question.
- Your events are one day events as to what I understand, and you're not expecting overnight guests for
- this. Is that correct? Correct. It'll mainly be weddings, bridal showers, baby showers, corporate events,
- lunches, dinners, whatever, those kind of things. All right. Thank you. Any other questions from members
- of the BZA?
- I have some for the staff. OK. I think that's all the questions for you. You're welcome to sit down.
- Thank you, sir. The concerns about the road access, we really, our job is not the houses, not
- the subdivision. It's the event space period. So is part of that decision based on
- highway accessibility. It's not up to us. I am ever so confident to worry over that. But is there somebody
- looking at that concern? Because every one of them mentioned that. And I'm sure it's true. There's so
- many blind spots in this county. So many hairpin curves all the time. It's just part and parcel of living
- here. But does somebody address that for these concerns?
- I would say that the border zoning appeals can definitely weigh in on the location of this agricultural
- event center as it relates to road frontage and turning access. We do have a condition of approval saying
- as long as they can get a right of way activity permit, this use will be permitted. As the petitioner
- stated, he was denied the first
- permit, but that was for a second driveway. We feel pretty confident based on the highway department's
- comments that there is a location that could accommodate this, but they're also required to give one
- driveway per lot. So it's not that it's an ideal location for a driveway, it's that it's the best situation
- that the parcel frontage has.
- Okay, my second question. So we can take it into consideration. And if they get the right of way permit
- that assumes that the traffic can be accommodated is kind of what you're implying. And they're not the
- highway department. I don't think at this point has an active application. And so they could ask for
- a traffic study. We do not have one at this point. They could ask for that. Okay. Well, that's good
- to know. The concern about toxic
- dumping. I know there's an entity here to report that to you. I know it's not in our purview for this,
- but is that also addressable because the neighbors are concerned about that? And we should all be concerned
- if that is so. Yeah, I wasn't sure exactly what they were referring to in terms of the future use being
- having possible or that there were prior uses. OK, and that they needed to clean that.
- Yes, there are different departments that deal with some of that. While we do the site plan review,
- we can note it for our stormwater team to go out, especially since this use will require detention or
- other things like that because of the maximum impervious that we're discussing. I do think that they
- will have to accommodate stormwater, make sure that the site is clean, things like that.
- And if we can talk with the neighbors about where they think that dumping has occurred. So that can
- be addressed. And the water pressure, my last question, the water pressure, when something this large,
- 300 people, that's a lot of flushing, a lot of hand washing, a lot of cleaning up dishes. Will some
- entity here say this is a plus or a minus because it'll affect other residents, or is that also
- not our concern, not anyone's concern. Is it anyone's concern? So Southern Monroe has stated to us that
- until they get a booster station, they do not have adequate water pressure in several parts of their
- serving area. They are working on a booster station. I don't know if it directly impacts this location,
- but my guess is the petitioner has not gotten a capacity letter at this stage.
- The building department is going to require, if this is a new build, for this to be reviewed as a commercial
- building. And to my knowledge, it will require a sprinkler system. So if they don't have the capacity
- for water to do a sprinkler system, they won't meet the code. They cannot build the center. So we're
- trying not to tell.
- We try not to bring this all up at the BZA because there are different steps in this and we can't predict
- whether there will be water pressure or we can't at the time that they go to build. We can't predict
- if they pursue a variance to that requirement and get it from the state, which would be very unlikely
- but possible.
- So there's just different factors and people are looking into those different things. I'm reassured
- by that because the neighbors are very consistent in their drumbeat of the issues and if their process
- and procedures to address those were all well served. So thank you for your good answer. I just want
- to point out that
- If I'm correct here, am I up to date, the one I've got printed 841.3e, standard of conditional use approval,
- is that what we're working on here? Yes. As well as the use specific standards. So there's use specific
- standards for agricultural event centers plus 84.1-34, general conditional use standards. So you can
- take all of those standards and apply those here. Well, the one I'm, there are two I'm looking at particularly.
- the conditional use property can be served with adequate utilities. And it sounds like right now, we
- can't be confident that it would be served with adequate facilities. And 300 people in the kitchen and
- the bathrooms is going to be more people than the rest of the road put together, I'm assuming.
- So I think we have a duty to take into consideration utilities. And number nine, the conditional use
- shall organize vehicular access and parking to minimize traffic congestion in the neighborhood. And
- we have grave concerns expressed by the neighborhood that this is going to create serious traffic congestion
- and danger problems. So I'm pointing out that it is within our
- purview to take these factors, to consider these factors. The other question, Jackie, is right now there's
- no flower farm and no tree farm. Flower farms and tree farms are expensive things to set up and get
- rolling. What happens if five years from now there isn't a flower farm or a Christmas tree farm?
- What happens then? Well, I think that they'd be in violation of the conditional use granted tonight
- if they state that their primary agricultural use will be established. They will have to have some sort
- of primary agricultural use to keep this conditional use because that's the definition of the Agricultural
- Event Center. Otherwise, it's just an event center, which is a general business zone and allows for
- the same things.
- It'll be typically in a more urban area with a lot more services. But what that would mean to me is
- they build an event center, all that investment, and then the flower farm after four years of trying
- to get it to work doesn't work, and the Christmas tree farmer gets a bad year and it doesn't work and
- they stop having it.
- It's very easy for it to be a freestanding event center because there isn't an existing agricultural
- use. Do you get my drift? I do. The petitioner recently purchased the property, so I do think that typically
- when we have seen maybe two past cases of attempts to get this use, there's already been an established
- owner with an established agricultural use, and typically it's row crops.
- to be honest, and so the whole goal of this agricultural center was to be able to offer farmers, another
- economic option to keep the farm and to keep farming the property in some way or shape or form.
- Position we're in as staff is that they're saying well, I just bought it I promise and we will check
- that there's a Christmas tree farm and flower farm established at the time of the commencement of the
- agricultural event center, so we will require to see proof that it is At least established now if it's
- not if it's not
- pulling in more money than the event center, that's not information that we would have. But if they
- altogether just stop doing the flower farm and the Christmas tree farm, we would be able to take in
- as an enforcement case and potentially revoke the approval. Yeah, but that would mean the 300-person
- event center would have to be not used for that purpose anymore.
- Or another agricultural use. Okay, thank you. I appreciate your help on that. I just have a question
- about the harmonious use of the buildings and grounds and the relationship to the neighbors. You know,
- we've heard tonight from the neighbors that there's sick, is it already donated Sycamore Land Trust property?
- Or is it to be donated? I believe it was stated as an easement. A conservation easement. With ownership
- after the donor's death. I see. And that's undersworn testimony. Yes. So it seems to me that that sets
- some kind of standard for the agricultural area that
- kind of mandates, given that generosity, that it kind of mandates that we give a higher standard of
- review for this idea of harmoniousness to the surrounding properties. And, you know, harmoniousness
- with the conservation goals that have been established and explicated and also
- that's just something that I think is important to do. Are there any more
- I can understand that sentiment. That came up with Connor Prairie in a big lawsuit when there was commercial
- establishment around the perimeter, big lights that would have intruded. So it became a statewide case
- about boundary. And I don't know the outcome of that case, but it's kind of very relevant in terms of
- the direction because it was pursued
- based on Conner Prairie. I wonder what, do you remember what that decision was? Well, Dave Schilling
- is online. Perhaps Dave Schilling could weigh in on that question. I wonder if he knows. Tech Services,
- could Mr. Schilling be promoted to be a presenter? He's our county attorney. He's looking at his computer
- right now as we speak. You know he is. Mr. Schilling, are you able to weigh in on the question that
- Ms. Davidson brought up? Brought up.
- Yes, I am not familiar with that case, but I can look into that as you talk and discuss. Thank you,
- Mr. Schilling. Thank you, Mr. Schilling. Any other comments from members of the BZA for discussion?
- We'd just like Mr. Schilling to weigh in if he reviews anything. Yeah, I mean, I have a couple of thoughts
- while we wait and give Mr. Schilling a few minutes too. You know, I agree with the
- the concerns that have been raised by the BZA and some of the neighbors tonight. But as I'm looking
- at the map, the only possible entrance and exit would be very close to State Road 37. So that's not
- a safe intersection anyway. And then to add, you know, the possibility of a group of traffic or a large
- number of cars leaving an event center at one time, I think would create some issues we should be concerned
- about. I'm also concerned about
- a large gravel parking lot, because if we go a few days in the summertime without rain and you get several
- hundred cars pulling into a parking lot, then I think that creates a cloud of dust that then travels
- whichever way the wind is blowing and kind of coats the neighborhood. So I want to bring up those two
- additional things. I think they're limited to 150 cars. And you said a couple hundred. I just want to
- make sure. I think the problem's the same, but I don't want the record to reflect
- a couple hundred when 150 would presumably be the maximum. Yeah, thank you for pointing that out. I
- do think even a few dozen cars would present the same problem, but thank you for clarifying that. And
- factually, as someone who goes to events, you all go to events, for events like that, people trickle
- in and trickle out. They don't come all at one time, and they don't leave all at one time. It's here
- and there. So congestion, yes, it can happen,
- It isn't a huge dilemma just because people are on such different timetables for attendance, I think.
- At the same time, it goes on for hours. It does go on for hours. For people for way more traffic than
- there is when there is an event going in and going out for hours of... You can't put a rent-a-cop out
- there and have him direct
- traffic unless he's out there for a long time in a situation like, yeah, you can if you put him out
- there for a long time. But yeah, I certainly want to hear what Mr. Schilling has to say. But while we're
- waiting, I'm prepared to move to deny. I think that we have utility concerns which have not been addressed.
- The environment consistent with the environment of its surrounding neighborhood, which is five acre
- lots and easement for a conservation easement and then conservation ownership, and there's no way
- minimize traffic congestion in the neighborhood. There are, traffic congestion is basically an insurmountable
- problem to me. And I'm very interested in what Mr. Schelling has to say, but what building pattern,
- I'm just going to put myself out there. Thank you, Mr. Laughman. Mr. Schelling, have we given you enough
- time or would you like us to continue discussing?
- Yeah, I could not find a case involving Conrad, other than a superior court case that was dismissed
- by the parties. But I can continue to keep looking. Maybe it just became a big matter of controversy
- and they worked it out, dismissed it. So who knows, but it was a hot topic.
- Okay, thank you, Mr. Schelling. Okay, thank you, Mr. Schelling. Tech Services, we're getting a really
- loud echo down here. I'm not sure if there's anything that could be done about that. Any other conversation
- for members of the VCA before we call for a motion? I do have some information that was shared from
- the Southern Monroe Water Corporation last year about their areas of not being able to serve.
- And I can share that with the group if you would like. I actually don't know that this site in particular
- is part of that moratorium area, but it is part of their service area. I think it would be helpful if
- you could share a little bit more information about that. Okay. I'd like to ask Mr. Laflute a question.
- The green area is the Southern Monroe service area. And then the area in pink was the area where they're
- stating that they're not able to currently give new water service to. But I believe that are the petitioner
- tonight is located outside of the pink and is located in this area here.
- which is not part of the moratorium, but that's not to say that they're within the pressure zone boundary
- area, which we were not discussing too much on that. They actually cannot issue more service lines for
- water in the pink, but the pressure service boundary I don't think will be
- maybe immediately address with that proposed booster I was discussing, which is all the way over here
- on the screen. So like I said, the petitioners in the outside of the moratorium, but it looks like they're
- in a pressure zone boundary area. So hopefully that helps. Yeah. Thank you, Jackie. That's helpful.
- And sir, sorry, I see your hand, but we're past the public comment period. So we can't take your testimony.
- So I apologize. Mr. Daley, did you have a question?
- Mr. Lofman, you mentioned earlier, I don't know verbatim, but you said utility issues. Yes. I don't
- see our board weighing a utility issue. We have concern from neighbors
- Those concerns are not, as far as I'm concerned, part of my decision-making process because the process
- is set up with the experts that determine whether there is a problem or not is after us. As the director
- pointed out,
- The utility company will specific or the the fire safety for the sprinkler systems, etc. The permitting
- process of that building once it's built, if it gets to that point, they will then make that determination
- and then that would be a challenge. If it is a problem or not would be one down the road, not for
- this decision for this board? I hear you, and I think there's wisdom in what you're saying. I don't
- dispute what you're saying. On the other hand, I'm looking at the factors I'm supposed to take into
- consideration, and the neighbors say, who are right next to this, they have very low water pressure.
- And when 300 people are there doing that, they're going to have a lot less water pressure.
- even if there's enough water pressure to run the operation, I still think it's going to bound to have
- a negative effect on the neighborhood. And that's one of the factors I look at is the neighborhood.
- I just want to make a comment among us.
- I'm very appreciative of that. It sounds like a marvelous area. But I don't know that that
- can be determinative of how a neighbor uses their property. I'm just not sure. Boy, I wish everybody
- in that area would give. So I don't think that is a factor that we should
- take into consideration. The statute, the rules, you're right, Mr. Lofman, all that is true. And I'm
- totally sympathetic to that because that would be disturbing. You're absolutely right. And someone said
- there are bald eagles nesting in that area, so it must be just gorgeous. But I just want to caution
- us not to let an adjacent neighborhood neighbor's decision govern your choices if it fits within
- rules and permissions. I disagree because if it was general, it wouldn't be before us if it met compliance.
- It means that they need special permission for this conditional use. If they didn't need the conditional
- use, it wouldn't matter. We wouldn't worry about impact on the neighbours. But when I look at conditional
- I do look at the impact on the neighbors. Well, all I'm saying is that the fact that there's 20 acres
- going to Sycamore Land Trust, the neighbors then are the animals in that situation. That's who it is
- in that 20 acres because it's going to be used for wildlife. Yeah, with the environment of its surrounding
- neighborhood includes the environment to me. We're required to look at the neighboring properties. We're required.
- We are required. Any further comments for members of the VCA before we move to a motion? Seeing none,
- do we have a motion? I move to deny. Yes. Yeah. Holloway.
- Homes LLC Agricultural Event Center, CDU-25-10 at 98 East Smithville Road. On the grounds that I did
- not find that the standards for conditional use approval have been met, there's
- evidence that there is inadequate water pressure. A 300-person event is going to greatly hurt the water
- pressure in that area. The environmental concerns are very important here, where you're going to have
- a 300-person event center. And until 10 o'clock at night, you're probably going to have bands and loud
- music, which can disturb the environment.
- the traffic is with 300 people going in and out in 150 cars over the period of the event is a serious
- congestion problem to me. In light of that, I've made my motion. Do we have a second? I'll second that
- for the reasons that Mr. Loftman stated, but also because the request does not meet
- items number five and six under 84-3E or items one and two under 84, 841-4E. Okay, Ms. Nestergellen,
- we have a motion and a second. Could you call the roll for us? Sure. The motion is to deny CDU-25-10.
- A vote yes is a vote to deny the conditional use for an agricultural event center large at this location.
- Jeff Morris? Yes. Pamela Davidson? This is a really hard vote for me, because I can see it both ways,
- but I know the way the vote's going to go on this. I'm going to vote yes. Margaret Clements? Yes. Skip Daly?
- No. Guy Laughman. Yes. Okay. So the motion is denied. The denial does proceed. So four to one denial.
- Okay. I want to thank all the neighbors for coming out and speaking tonight and also thank you to Mr.
- Holloway for coming out and sharing your case with us and apologies that did not go the way you had
- hoped. So thank you all.
- Moving on now to case VAR-26-5. This is the Mellencamp Eco Area 1, one acre contiguous build area to
- Chapter 823. Mr. Loftman, it looks like this one is recommended for approval. Yes. Did you want to do
- that, Mr. Neal? It was your invention. Permission to address? Yeah, go ahead. At this point, I would like
- to find out from the audience both online or in person if there are any members of the public that wish
- to speak either way on this matter. If you're online and wish to speak on this matter, please raise
- your virtual hand.
- I see no one at this point. I would like to make a motion to call the question. And I would note that
- staff has recommended approval. That's why we're doing this, yeah. Second. We have a motion and a second
- to call the question to move this toward. Okay. I'll go ahead and just share the screen really quickly
- with the packet. So this is a case VAR-26.
- There's a motion and a second to approve the Mellon Camp Eco Area 1 maximum residential density variance
- to chapter 823. And the staff recommendation was to approve based on it meeting all the criteria, including
- practical difficulties. A vote yes is a vote to approve this variance. Pamela Davidson? Yes. Margaret
- Clements? Yes. Skip Daly?
- Yes, and sorry, Mr. Myers. Guy Lofman? Yes. Jeff Morris? Yes. Motion is approved, five to zero. Okay,
- so moving on to the last three cases of the night. This is VAR-26-7A, VAR-26-7B and 7C. This is the
- cost eco area to residential density maximum variance to chapter 823, the cost
- side yard setback varies to chapter 804 and the cost minimum lot size variance to chapter 8. Sir, I
- will turn it over to you for your first BZA case. Thank you. I appreciate the introduction. So the case
- number is VAR267 or VAR-26-7. The request is a variance to chapter 823 for the residential
- density maximum in eco area too, and variances to chapter 804 for the side yard setback and the minimum
- lot size. So the purpose is to permit a residential storage structure, a carport, and an off-grid cabin
- in the future. The property zone conservation residential 2.5, the lot is two acres, it's unplanted
- in a butt stay road 446. There is a little bit of a discrepancy about the acreage of the lot.
- and I'll get to that in a little bit. The lot does not meet the minimum lot size requirement of 2.5
- acres per chapter 804 in the Monroe County Development Ordinance. The lot also does not meet the residential
- density maximum of 2.5 acres for Eco Area 2 per chapter 823 in the CDO. The petitioner is requesting
- to place a 20 foot by 30 foot carport structure on the property. It's a total of 600 square feet. There
- exists a primary residence on the property
- that the petitioner has already submitted a demolition permit for, and the record numbers there, that
- has been partially demolished, the primary structure that is, that's exhibit three in the staff report
- that was posted online, due to the petitioner's intent to remove the primary residential structure,
- the property is now classified as vacant. With the property now classified as vacant,
- The new proposed structure will be deemed a residential storage structure, which is defined in the county
- development ordinance as a structure to be used for private non-commercial storage by the property owner.
- Does not require the presence of a primary use on the same lot. If there is a presence of a primary
- use on the same lot, the structure can instead follow the standards for an accessory structure. So as
- the proposed structure no longer meets the criteria of an accessory structure due to the
- Lack of a primary residence. It doesn't qualify for the reduced setbacks setback standards for an accessory
- structure which have permitted the proposed structure up to five feet from the side yard per chapter
- 8 11 To be as the proposed structure is less than 15 feet in height per their petitioner so
- There's a little bit of a snippet that outlines that specific item and accessory building or structure
- equal to or less than 15 feet in building height shall be permitted within five feet of rear and side
- property lines. Staff has proposed alternative structure locations that meet setbacks and are located
- in the buildable area. It's outlined in Exhibit 9 in the staff report.
- This is the location map. As you can see in this location map, you see kind of that little sliver toward
- the bottom of the lot there. And these are the site conditions. This is the site conditions map. So
- moving forward. So here's the survey for the property. In this survey, it seems to reflect that the
- property is 1.80 acres. Yeah. And this is the deed for the property, which
- seems to reflect that the property is two acres. So that's where that kind of confusion about the acreage
- of the lot is. But nonetheless, it's still under the 2.5 acre minimum requirement for both the minimum
- lot size for the zoning district as well as for the residential density maximum of 2.5 acres. So here
- are the CVR standards or dimensional standards. As you can see, the minimum lot size is 2.5 acres. And then for
- The setbacks, the side yard for residential use is 15 feet. Here are the eco two area residential density
- maximum standards. He cannot, the petitioner cannot meet item three, which states the maximum residential
- density that shall be allowed shall be one unit per 2.5 acres. The petitioner's deed states that the
- total acreage is two
- acres in contrast the 2025 survey of the petition site shows that the total acreage is 1.8 give or take
- acres therefore the lot requires a variance from this provision prior to any further development but
- he can meet all other items outlined in this section here's here's the plot plan submitted by the petitioner
- and you can see on the bottom
- left portion or bottom left side of the property that he is planning on placing that carport structure
- or the residential storage structure seven feet from the side yard there. Here is an aerial photograph
- of the property per Eagle View. Another aerial photograph of the property per Eagle View. You can see
- the primary residence right there, not far from the side yard as well.
- So here are some alternative locations recommended by or proposed by staff that are compliant with these
- setbacks and also are not located in the non-buildable area. Here's a photo of the primary residence
- that is being, I guess it's in process of being demolished. This picture was taken on March 20th.
- Here is a picture of a camper on the property. And here are a few pictures I'm gonna show of areas that
- could be considered compliant that were kind of noted in the alternative placement locations. Here's
- a photo of the gravel pad that staff believes may be where the applicant is proposing to place the carport
- structure.
- Another photo of the camper as well as compliant areas that the carport may be placed. Here's a 1976
- plat from the auditor. The lot is reflected as lot 15 in this plat. Here is a letter of opposition from
- the neighbor located to the south.
- Some of the items that he's addressed have been adequately addressed already though, but this was included
- in the staff report as well as an exhibit. And here's another photo that the neighbor to the south claims
- that you can see an outhouse on the property as of March 20th, but you can't really see it in this picture.
- So staff recommendations, approve the cost
- eco area to residential density maximum variance as practical difficulties have been demonstrated as
- the lot does not meet the maximum residential density acreage of 2.5 acres per one unit. And this variance
- is the minimum needed to do any further development work on this property and to be able to grant a
- permit for said work. Deny the side yard setback variance.
- Practical difficulties have not been demonstrated by the petitioner as there are areas on the petitioner's
- property where the carport can be located that would not require variance and approve the minimum lot
- size variance as practical difficulties have been demonstrated as the property cannot meet the 2.5 acre
- minimum lot size requirement without acquiring 0.7 acres or 0.5 acres for 10% deviation permitted under
- the county development ordinance.
- from an adjacent neighbor via administrative type E subdivision or rezoning to a zone with a smaller
- lot size. This would be the minimum variance necessary for any new development on the property. Okay,
- thank you Ray for the excellent job walking us through that presentation. So we can turn now to the
- petitioner or petitioner's representative. Do we have petitioner sir, if you would come forward and
- sign in, I'll swear you in.
- Could you state your name and then raise your right hand? Joel Koss. Okay. Do you swear to tell the
- truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Okay. You have 15 minutes to present your case
- to us. So we bought this property simply off the fact that we wanted to kind of like a hunting camp
- because we deer hunt a lot. And behind the property is all public land, Hoosier National Forest. We
- don't really want to do much. We just want a small cabin that we can go to in the fall.
- kind of get away and camp and then go behind the property and hunt. The way that the property is set
- up right behind the trailer, it does slope down so that we really don't have much building room up top,
- especially since we had to remove a driveway because of the DOT. So the carport was going to be set
- to the side away from like on the south side. So when you pull in, there's plenty of room to turn around
- and pull back out.
- Mainly, that's just for storage. There's not gonna be much stuff going in there other than maybe firewood,
- log splitter, a couple of camping gear. Other than that, that's basically it. We're wanting to build
- a cabin, not this year, and it probably won't even be next year, because of funds. But eventually, we're
- gonna probably build like a 30 by 30 cabin. And I don't even believe we're gonna be hooking to utilities.
- We're gonna go solar and rainwater. But yeah, that's basically all I got. Okay, thank you, sir.
- Any members of the VCA have questions for Mr. Cos? Yeah, sir. Sir, could you come back up so we can
- hear you on the microphone when we ask questions? The concern is you're too close to the property line
- with where you want to build this. Why can't you build it back when you wouldn't need a variance? Well,
- because of the way the land grades slopes down.
- We would have to bring in more dirt, which would cost us more money in the end. Plus, we don't really
- want to disturb too much of the land. I mean, behind the trailer, it's kind of grown up naturally, and
- it's returning to nature. And we don't really want to mess with any of that if we can help it. So that's
- basically why we want to put it off to the side out of the way. Thank you. Any other questions for Mr. Koss?
- Okay, you're welcome to have a seat. We'll turn to public comment next, and if anybody speaks against
- this, you'll have five minutes to come back up to address their concerns. Okay, so let's turn now to
- members of the public. Is there anyone here in the room who wishes to speak for this petition? Okay,
- and then I'll turn online to see if there's anybody online who wishes to speak in favor of this petition
- first. Raise your virtual hand, please.
- Okay, seeing no one will turn back to the people in the room here who wish to speak against the petition.
- If you could sign in, then I'll swear you in.
- Okay, could you state your name and then raise your right hand? Catherine Greenman. Okay, do you swear
- to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Okay, thank you. You'll have three
- minutes. I am the tenant of 8370 South 446. My father is the owner of the property he sent in the
- The information to you, the pictures of the outhouse. I guess that's our major concern is they seem
- to have a lack of regard for local health code, building code, and zoning code. They moved in, they
- built an outhouse less than a foot away from our property line.
- that is still there. I have a picture that's a much better picture than the one I was able to get the
- other day. If I could approach and... Yeah, if you could approach and hit it to this. Sorry, if you
- want to hand us the picture and then go back to the microphone, we need to keep your comments on record.
- Thank you. Okay. You see the outhouse with the circle window and then the white
- steak with the white tip. I know my color died in my printer, unfortunately, but you can clearly see
- that it is directly on the property line. It's not even two feet over. I have concerns about that because
- it's an outhouse. I have children. We use our yard. We use the woods behind our house. I'm not sure
- exactly what outhouse
- Where if that's being contained if that's draining into the creek behind the house what's happening
- there? So that's certainly a concern This previous fall they I guess as he stated wanted to use it as
- a deer camp and That meant for several weeks this fall there were 10 to 20 people roughly there at any
- given time with multiple tents fires every night and
- deer carcasses hanging roughly on the property line. I don't have a problem with them building there.
- I don't have a problem with them having a carport. I do not want it against our property line. I'd like
- as much buffer as the zoning gives for that, just to keep as much of that away from the property as possible.
- I feel like it could be a liability with my children, with people that they have coming to the property,
- being so close to our property, having that many people on the property at a time, drinking, fires,
- loud music, that kind of thing. So we're asking that you did variance for the side yard setback and
- Do you have any other questions about the location of the buildings that have already been put on the
- property without permitting or zoning or any? We typically don't have back and forth conversation with
- commoners that are coming up to speak, but thank you. No, that's fine. They've moved in and they immediately
- started building. They previously had their camper less than three feet from
- 446 and had built a shed on 446 like less than three feet back. I just feel if the variance is allowed
- that they will take liberties with that variance and with the property and I don't I don't think it
- should be allowed.
- Okay, thank you for sharing your comments. Do we have anybody else who wishes to speak against this?
- If you're in the room, you're welcome to come to the podium. If you're online, please raise your virtual
- hand. Okay, not seeing anyone, we will close public comment. Mr. Koss, if you wish to come forward and
- speak to the concerns you've heard, you have five minutes. To address the outhouse, temporary.
- We plan on having somebody come out. There is a septic tank on the property. We cannot use it until
- we can have it inspected. Until then, I built it temporarily to use while I demolished the trailer.
- And as far as deer season, it's just our family, roughly 10 to about 15. And we usually go home during
- the week. Other than that, I don't have a problem moving the carport. It just cuts back on the room
- that we have.
- up on the top of that hill. So that would be all. Okay, thank you, sir. So we will come back now to
- members of the BZA for conversation. Yeah, just as a matter of clarification for staff, an outhouse
- doesn't have the rule. I mean, he's just told us that he's going to hook into a septic system, which
- that's a legitimate concern. I can understand that. Are there any rules for outhouses or none? I don't
- even know.
- So we did learn recently, I think there's been some state law changes that there is a way to permit.
- I think it's called a private privy that is directly over top of a septic system. But we were made aware
- of the outhouse concern based on this remonstrance letter. And we were planning on just following up
- with the health department separately.
- Is the implication that you can't just put a privy up on your property unless you have a septic system?
- You can't just dump your... Correct. Yeah, there's not a way forward for just an outhouse or compost
- toilet typically. That's not really... Right. Thank you. Any other thoughts from members of the BCA?
- Well, I don't see any compelling reason not to apply the normal.
- ordinance here. It's inconvenient, but these ordinances are almost always inconvenient for people who
- wish they weren't in this way. But especially where we have neighbors who are right up against it with
- kids, and I think it's appropriate to say we're going to require you to meet the standard requirements.
- So that's what I would vote.
- I'm prepared to make a motion on approving variance 26-7A and variance 26-7C, that's 7 alpha and 7 Charlie,
- based on practical difficulties being demonstrated. Second that.
- We have a motion to approve 7A and 7C. Okay, I'll go ahead and call the roll on just 7A, which is the
- eco area to residential density maximum, and 7C, which is the minimum lot size variance to chapter 804.
- A vote yes is a vote to approve 7A and 7C. Skip Daly? Yes. Guy Loftman? Yes. Jeff Morris? Yes.
- Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
- I can't even believe that was called a primary residence, but it's got to be delightful to have that
- being removed. It's just got to be. So it's all about the placement of the carport. And the one thing
- I have forgotten is in terms of the setback variance, how far off are they from where they want to place
- it versus if it got moved and it wouldn't be a problem?
- How many feet or is it? From the side yard, it's eight feet short of meeting the minimum restriction
- of 15 feet. So it's about half of it? Yeah, a little over half, yeah. Okay. Any other comments? Do we
- have a motion? Maybe I'm missing the size of the overall size of the carport that's being recommended.
- Yeah, it's 20 by 30, so 600 square feet. 600. And so it's a 20 by 30, and it pushed seven feet one direction.
- Yeah, it's encroaching on the side yard. Well, it would be encroaching on the side yard. And it's current
- placement's seven feet from the south property line, which is the side yard. The property line, OK. Thanks.
- Mr. Cost, I saw your hand, but sorry, we're past the point of speaking with the petitioner. We're at
- BZA conversation now. Thank you. There's just one thing that is compelling me to speak, and it's just
- about kind of this idea of community. You know, of course we're here in an official proceeding, and
- you are neighbors. And there's nothing that we can do that just promotes good relationships with people
- surrounding us. And although
- We're making decisions that impact you both. One thing that we do try to strive for and stress is just
- like consideration of neighbors because we're all in this together. So that's one thing that kind of
- doesn't need to be said, but I know that I'll sleep better having said it. We just encourage everybody
- to just try to be considerate and work with the neighbors because
- That's who we are, you know, so that's one thing I wanted to say. Thank you for indulging me.
- Thank you, Ms. Clements. Hey, do we have a motion? I move to, I've got a little tiny writing here. I
- move to deny variance 27,
- 6-7B cost side yard setback variance to Chapter 804 because there's no compelling need to move from
- the variance. I do want to say to Mr. Cross, I think it's great your family comes down and stays together.
- I know that they say the family that hunts together stays together, but I think that it's a
- It's good that your family is caring about these things and preserving the land here, but I think there's
- no reason not to comply with our zoning ordinances, and especially where you do have a nearby neighbor.
- Say, you know, if there was nobody for the next 20 acres, I might be more sympathetic, but you do have
- an adjacent neighbor, so I move no. 59. Do we have a second? I'll second that.
- Okay, it's been moved and seconded to deny VAR-26-7B, which is the side yard setback variance to Chapter
- 804. A vote yes is a vote to deny the variance. Skip Daly.
- I don't know that the practical difficulty was met. I don't know that I have a problem with it personally,
- but as a board member, I think I had to say yes. Guy Lofman? Yes. Jeff Morris? Yes. Pamela Davidson?
- I'm going to vote no because the neighbor said she was not concerned about the placement of the carport.
- She was concerned about the outhouse, which got
- dealt with. But technically you're right Mr. Glofman, the ordinance says what the ordinance says, but
- I'm going to vote now. Margaret Clements. Yes. Yes. Okay. So the motion to deny the AR-26-7B, the side
- yard setback, does proceed by a vote of four to one. So that means that the petitioner will be required
- to meet the 15 foot side setback
- for the residential storage structure. Okay, thank you, Mr. Kossin, to the neighbor who came out and
- spoke. Thank you, we appreciate it. So I believe that takes us to the end of our agenda. May I? Sure.
- And just for references for the community, if there are enforcement questions that community members
- have, do they contact the Planning Department? They can start with us.
- a lot of complaints and direct them in the right place. So we do try to offer that service to all community
- members. Mr. Koss, I'd like to say that I have a herd of 36 deer that come through my property. They're
- annoying to me. So if your family is looking for a prosperous place to hunt. I just wanted to put that
- out there. Thank you.
- I think that brings us to the end of the agenda, so we have a motion for adjournment. I move to adjourn.
- Thank you all. Thank you.