WEBVTT 00:00:00.674 --> 00:00:11.789 - Let's call to order the August 26th, 2026 meeting of the Monroe County Board of Zoning and Appeals meeting. 00:00:11.789 --> 00:00:22.080 - I will be filling in for the chairman who could not make it to our meeting this evening. Inspector, 00:00:22.080 --> 00:00:30.622 - if you could go ahead and call the roll. Sure. Margaret Clements. Here. Skip Daly. 00:00:30.850 --> 00:00:40.524 - Yes. Guy Laughman. Yes. Jeff Morris. Pamela Davidson. Yes. We have four members in person in a quorum. 00:00:40.524 --> 00:00:46.910 - Okay, fantastic. Let's go ahead and introduce the evidence, please. 00:00:47.714 --> 00:00:52.931 - I'd like to introduce the following items into the evidence. The Monroe County Development Ordinance 00:00:52.931 --> 00:00:58.304 - as adopted and amended. The Monroe County Zoning Ordinance and Subdivision Control Ordinance as adopted 00:00:58.304 --> 00:01:03.521 - and amended. The Monroe County Comprehensive Plan as adopted and amended. The Monroe County Board of 00:01:03.521 --> 00:01:08.738 - Zoning Appeals Rules or Procedure as adopted and amended. And the cases that were legally advertised 00:01:08.738 --> 00:01:11.166 - and scheduled for hearing on tonight's agenda. 00:01:12.642 --> 00:01:21.005 - I move that to introduce the evidence for tonight as you've just enumerated so well. I second the motion 00:01:21.005 --> 00:01:29.129 - to approve. It's been moved and seconded to approve the introduction of evidence. A vote yes is about 00:01:29.129 --> 00:01:37.174 - to approve. Skip Daly. Yes. Guy Lofman. Yes. Pamela Davidson. Yes. Margaret Clements. Yes. Motion is 00:01:37.174 --> 00:01:39.006 - approved four to zero. 00:01:39.714 --> 00:01:48.964 - All right, before we approve the agenda, I understand there's a motion that's going to be made. Yes, 00:01:48.964 --> 00:01:58.398 - I'd like to move that we approve tonight's agenda as advertised except that we move the administrative 00:01:58.398 --> 00:02:03.710 - business to the end of the meeting. I second that motion. 00:02:04.418 --> 00:02:12.408 - Okay, it's been moved and seconded to approve the agenda as presented with the motion to move administrative 00:02:12.408 --> 00:02:19.737 - business to the end of new business, and otherwise the cases will go in order as advertised. A vote 00:02:19.737 --> 00:02:27.214 - yes is a vote to approve the agenda with that one amendment. Guy Laughman? Yes. Pamela Davidson? Yes. 00:02:27.214 --> 00:02:32.638 - Margaret Clements? Yes. Skip Daly? Yes. Motion is approved, four to zero. 00:02:34.178 --> 00:02:41.894 - All right. Board members, is there anybody going to ask a question in the negative? Is there anybody 00:02:41.894 --> 00:02:49.838 - that has not had the opportunity to review the April, May or June 2026 meeting minutes? Hearing no one. 00:02:49.838 --> 00:02:55.262 - Is there anybody on the board that recommends any amendments to those? 00:02:56.322 --> 00:03:10.494 - Hearing nobody, I approve the minutes for April, May, and June of 2026. Let's see, no old business. 00:03:10.494 --> 00:03:22.398 - Let's go ahead and start with our new business. The Brown Eco Area 2 Variants 26-1. 00:03:22.498 --> 00:03:32.615 - Mr. Myers, before you get into your presentation, for the record, has the petitioner complied with notice 00:03:32.615 --> 00:03:42.160 - to everybody that is statutorily required? Yes. All right. Thank you. Please proceed. All right. So 00:03:42.160 --> 00:03:45.310 - this is at 3701 East Maples Way. 00:03:45.506 --> 00:03:51.312 - This is one 5.03 acre parcel in Bloomington Township section 26. It's zone conservation residential 00:03:51.312 --> 00:03:57.351 - and it's in the environmental constraint overlay area two. The petitioner is requesting one residential 00:03:57.351 --> 00:04:03.274 - development standards variance from the environmental constraints overlay area two related to the 15% 00:04:03.274 --> 00:04:09.371 - slope regulation. The petitioner is proposing to construct a new 1,250 square foot two-story residential 00:04:09.371 --> 00:04:10.590 - accessory structure. 00:04:10.754 --> 00:04:16.809 - each floor will measure 25 by 25 feet for a 625 square foot footprint with an additional seven feet 00:04:16.809 --> 00:04:22.985 - on one side to accommodate stairs. The total height of the structure will be just under 30 feet which 00:04:22.985 --> 00:04:29.041 - is the maximum height for accessory structures in this zoning district. The proposed structure will 00:04:29.041 --> 00:04:35.217 - contain a bathroom but no bedrooms or kitchen facilities. Because of the proposed bathroom a separate 00:04:35.217 --> 00:04:40.606 - septic system connection will be installed for this structure. There is a mistake in the 00:04:40.866 --> 00:04:46.996 - Report that states a separate septic system as in a brand new septic system will be installed, but upon 00:04:46.996 --> 00:04:53.009 - the site visit and conversations with the petitioner, a connection to the existing septic system will 00:04:53.009 --> 00:04:58.962 - be acquired for this structure. The proposed accessory structure will sit approximately 65 feet from 00:04:58.962 --> 00:05:04.798 - the rear of the house and encroach approximately 20 feet into an area with slope greater than 15%. 00:05:07.330 --> 00:05:15.463 - The position site is listed as Lot 9 of the Lanham Ridge Estates Section 2 subdivision, which was recorded 00:05:15.463 --> 00:05:23.140 - on August 23, 1997. And for the record, the first iteration of the environmental constraints overlay 00:05:23.140 --> 00:05:30.741 - was adopted by the Monroe County Board of Commissioners on January 23, 1992. The Chapter 823 of the 00:05:30.741 --> 00:05:34.238 - Monroe County Development Ordinance regulates 00:05:34.370 --> 00:05:40.233 - the Eco Area 2, which states that the maximum land slope upon which any land disturbance activity, which 00:05:40.233 --> 00:05:45.370 - includes the removal of vegetation involved in construction of buildings, driveways, roads, 00:05:45.370 --> 00:05:51.010 - parking lots, and utilities shall be 15%. Therefore, any land disturbance activity to slopes greater 00:05:51.010 --> 00:05:56.761 - than 15% is prohibited by Chapter 823 for property in this Area 2. On the screen, you have the purpose 00:05:56.761 --> 00:06:00.670 - statement from the environmental constraints overlay in that chapter. 00:06:02.370 --> 00:06:09.051 - Now on the screen you have the provisions for Area 2 with respect to the Chapter 823-5b which provides 00:06:09.051 --> 00:06:15.666 - regulations for Area 2. There are four items here and we're concentrating on item number one and item 00:06:15.666 --> 00:06:22.541 - number two. Item number one I just referenced with respect to any land disturbance activity is prohibited 00:06:22.541 --> 00:06:29.287 - on slopes greater than 15% and item number two is states that no land disturbance of natural vegetation 00:06:29.287 --> 00:06:31.038 - beyond the 15% slope line. 00:06:31.426 --> 00:06:37.630 - So due to the nature of this request on this petition with respect to constructing a new residential 00:06:37.630 --> 00:06:43.896 - accessory structure, both of those standards require a variance in order to proceed with the building 00:06:43.896 --> 00:06:47.582 - permit process. The other items three and four will be met. 00:06:49.954 --> 00:06:55.492 - Now on the screen is definitions for practical difficulties, and this is one of the important pieces 00:06:55.492 --> 00:07:00.975 - to the puzzle of the variance process for the board zoning appeals to consider, so I have that here 00:07:00.975 --> 00:07:06.459 - on the screens also included in the packet and we can come back to these definitions, if necessary. 00:07:06.459 --> 00:07:09.310 - Here we have the location map Bloomington township. 00:07:09.570 --> 00:07:15.337 - We're fairly close to the city of Bloomington's jurisdiction. And interestingly, we are in the Lake 00:07:15.337 --> 00:07:21.334 - Griffey watershed, which is also regulated by the environmental constraints overlay. It's not just Lake 00:07:21.334 --> 00:07:27.389 - Monroe watershed. On the right, we have the site conditions map. All of the red areas are sloped greater 00:07:27.389 --> 00:07:33.790 - than 15%, which are the areas of regulation. This is just a zoomed in version of the site conditions map here. 00:07:35.938 --> 00:07:42.251 - And here we have the eco area map as presented. So all of the red hatching areas are area two and the 00:07:42.251 --> 00:07:48.501 - blue hatching is area one. You can see the area one as you get closer to Lake Griffey and we are far 00:07:48.501 --> 00:07:54.814 - enough away from Lake Monroe that you won't see the blue with respect to area one for that reservoir. 00:07:57.218 --> 00:08:03.976 - Now on the screen we have a series of aerial pictometry showing different angles of the property and 00:08:03.976 --> 00:08:10.800 - the existing conditions. So we have the primary residence as well as a detached structure existing on 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:17.491 - the property. The proposed location of the accessory structure will be in the tree line here a bit. 00:08:17.491 --> 00:08:25.118 - I'll show you some more imagery and site plans that give you a better idea of where that will be located. So just 00:08:25.890 --> 00:08:35.845 - spinning around, looking at the different angles of the property with some contour lines shown here 00:08:35.845 --> 00:08:45.502 - as well. Now we have some on the ground photos of the site. On the left-hand side, we have a few 00:08:45.634 --> 00:08:53.361 - Minor items on the ground, those kind of identify where the existing septic tank is. On the right, we 00:08:53.361 --> 00:09:01.088 - have a tree in the background. That is a tree that the petitioner has stated that is likely having to 00:09:01.088 --> 00:09:09.117 - be removed due to its condition and health, as well as it's affecting the location, the eventual location 00:09:09.117 --> 00:09:15.102 - of the proposed structure. Some more photographs here as we traverse the site. 00:09:15.778 --> 00:09:23.162 - On the right, we see the wood planks here or branches on the ground. And the petitioner stated during 00:09:23.162 --> 00:09:30.474 - the site visit that that's approximately where the front of the structure will go. So it will extend 00:09:30.474 --> 00:09:38.654 - further into the tree line there, extending into the woods as it goes into the 15% slope. More photographs here. 00:09:40.898 --> 00:09:48.083 - Bottom right photograph. Behind me, taking this picture, is where the septic field is. So there is quite 00:09:48.083 --> 00:09:54.927 - a bit of a distance from the septic tank to the septic field. And I can show you on some other maps 00:09:54.927 --> 00:10:01.770 - the location of that field. Now on the screen, we have the letter from the petitioner stating their 00:10:01.770 --> 00:10:08.956 - request and their rationale as to why they want the structure on the proposed location. This is included 00:10:08.956 --> 00:10:09.982 - in the packet. 00:10:15.138 --> 00:10:22.429 - Here we have the site conditions map prepared by the petitioner. So the dark rectangle on the right 00:10:22.429 --> 00:10:29.719 - side or eastern side of the property is the existing septic field. The small square that is located 00:10:29.719 --> 00:10:37.010 - to the north of the existing home is the existing septic tank. And then this smaller dark rectangle 00:10:37.010 --> 00:10:43.134 - is where the proposed structure will be approximately placed. So you can see there. 00:10:43.298 --> 00:10:51.251 - that it is showing as extending into the protected slope areas. Down the screen is an exhibit produced 00:10:51.251 --> 00:10:59.513 - by the petitioner that indicates trees in the immediate vicinity that will need to be removed with respect 00:10:59.513 --> 00:11:06.462 - to the construction of the residential accessory structure. And here we have the original 00:11:06.818 --> 00:11:16.557 - subdivision plant that has lot number nine shown here, as well as a delineation of its building envelope 00:11:16.557 --> 00:11:26.111 - that was detailed back when this was recorded in 1996. Now on the screen are a couple of figures, this 00:11:26.111 --> 00:11:27.966 - slide and the next. 00:11:28.066 --> 00:11:33.979 - Staff did a little bit of analysis with respect to the available buildable area on the property with 00:11:33.979 --> 00:11:40.069 - respect to the existing septic tank and other structures on the property. So this is figure one showing 00:11:40.069 --> 00:11:46.333 - an approximate alternate location of the proposed structure within buildable area and with enough distance 00:11:46.333 --> 00:11:52.188 - away from the septic tank. And then this is another figure showing another alternative location for 00:11:52.188 --> 00:11:56.638 - the proposed structure that meets buildable area away from the septic tank. 00:11:56.994 --> 00:12:02.535 - existing structures, as well as the existing septic field. All right, so that brings us to 00:12:02.535 --> 00:12:09.050 - staff's recommendation. Overall, staff recommends denial of VAR-26-28, stating that practical difficulties 00:12:09.050 --> 00:12:15.260 - have not been demonstrated. Per the strict application of the county development ordinance, there are 00:12:15.260 --> 00:12:21.715 - other areas on the property suitable for the construction of the proposed residential accessory structure 00:12:21.715 --> 00:12:25.246 - that do meet buildable area. I'll now take any questions. 00:12:27.330 --> 00:12:36.838 - By this time, unless if there are any imminent clarification questions for staff, which I'm seeing none, 00:12:36.838 --> 00:12:45.893 - let's just go ahead and bring up the petitioner. Thank you. While you approach, please keep in mind 00:12:45.893 --> 00:12:55.582 - that the microphone, we need to hear what you have to say, so adjust that as needed. If you could sign in. 00:12:56.002 --> 00:13:21.438 - And after signing in, if you could speak your name for the record. My name is Kevin Brown. Kevin Brown? Yes. 00:13:21.666 --> 00:13:28.321 - Mr. Brown, before you begin, if you could raise your right hand for me. Do you swear that the testimony 00:13:28.321 --> 00:13:35.168 - you're about to provide is the truth as you know it? It certainly is. We're going to offer you 15 minutes. 00:13:35.168 --> 00:13:41.759 - Okay, okay. I also have a bit of a presentation, but I also have copies, hard copies that may help you 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:48.350 - guys follow along. You can approach and hand them, but you can't speak because it's not on the record. 00:14:06.786 --> 00:14:13.593 - if staff could make sure that that's entered into evidence. First off, thank you for giving me this 00:14:13.593 --> 00:14:20.468 - opportunity to talk to you. And I thought Drew's presentation was pretty much right on point. Let me 00:14:20.468 --> 00:14:27.479 - tell you just a little about our background for this. My wife and I bought this property and built the 00:14:27.479 --> 00:14:34.014 - house in 2005. If you look at the lot, there's an absolutely gorgeous ravine that's part of it. 00:14:34.466 --> 00:14:42.203 - We really wanted to build something so we could see the ravine when we originally did it, but didn't 00:14:42.203 --> 00:14:49.558 - have the money. So now that I've finished teaching, so I was a law professor here for 35 years. 00:14:49.558 --> 00:14:57.295 - Thank you. The last four years, I was in South Carolina teaching there. And indeed, part of teaching 00:14:57.295 --> 00:15:01.662 - there was to get the money to build this structure here. 00:15:02.402 --> 00:15:09.429 - I know that there's some concern about the potential water runoff into Lake Griffey. And I also go to 00:15:09.429 --> 00:15:16.387 - Lake Griffey, so I really care about Lake Griffey. It's about a 45-minute walk from my house. I just 00:15:16.387 --> 00:15:23.620 - have to know how to actually get there. But there is a way to get there. So this, for us, is the project 00:15:23.620 --> 00:15:30.578 - we're doing, because now I am retired. So I'm spending a lot more time at the house. And we now have 00:15:30.578 --> 00:15:32.094 - the money to actually 00:15:32.322 --> 00:15:43.702 - build this structure. And I only got one. Thank you. That's to show you that the structure itself will 00:15:43.702 --> 00:15:55.414 - mimic the front of the house. So it'll be very much a building that looks like it's part of the property. 00:15:55.414 --> 00:15:57.182 - As I understand 00:15:57.986 --> 00:16:08.839 - The primary problem here is that there are potentially other locations where I could build it. And that's 00:16:08.839 --> 00:16:19.180 - what I want to address, those other locations. And this is where, I don't know, is there some way we 00:16:19.180 --> 00:16:26.142 - can advance? Yes, so just go to the first picture. So this is where 00:16:26.722 --> 00:16:33.704 - I want to build the structure. And I'll quickly talk about why I want to build it there. And then I'll 00:16:33.704 --> 00:16:40.753 - address the two alternatives. When we originally were going to do this, we were going to push it closer 00:16:40.753 --> 00:16:47.802 - to one of the alternative sites. But it turns out, and this is literally in the last three weeks, we've 00:16:47.802 --> 00:16:54.174 - got the largest oak tree on our property that has clearly died or is in the process of dying. 00:16:54.882 --> 00:17:01.119 - So we brought out two different tree people, as well as an arborist, Matt Baldwin, to take a look at 00:17:01.119 --> 00:17:07.602 - the tree to see if it could be saved. All of them agree that the tree has to come down. So since there's 00:17:07.602 --> 00:17:13.963 - a tree that's going to have to come down, we decided that would be the perfect place to put it because 00:17:13.963 --> 00:17:20.508 - we will have already disturbed the soil and we're going to have to go through the whole process of taking 00:17:20.508 --> 00:17:23.966 - it down. So that's why that's the favorite site for us. 00:17:24.066 --> 00:17:36.385 - it's also directly closest to the house, which means, and this is a supplemental property that is intended 00:17:36.385 --> 00:17:48.129 - to be connected to the house by a walkway. So putting it there, the walkway is not very large. And we 00:17:48.129 --> 00:17:52.734 - know that one big tree has to come down 00:17:53.090 --> 00:18:00.576 - We're not sure if we'll have to take down other trees. It's possible that we'll have to take down another 00:18:00.576 --> 00:18:07.850 - one, maybe three, but I think only another one. But that's not even certain. So that's one of the real 00:18:07.850 --> 00:18:15.266 - reasons that we want to do it there, connect it to the house closer through the walkway that we'll have, 00:18:15.266 --> 00:18:22.046 - which will be elevated by 10 feet. So it's not on the ground. It's actually coming 10 feet off. 00:18:22.562 --> 00:18:28.752 - The reason we have to connect it with the walkway is because we do have coyotes on our property, and 00:18:28.752 --> 00:18:35.002 - we have a ton of those possums on there. So there's a little danger about walking there at night, and 00:18:35.002 --> 00:18:41.192 - we do also get an occasional skunk. My wife, if she were here, she would tell you there's absolutely 00:18:41.192 --> 00:18:47.688 - no way she would let me go there if there wasn't a walkway. So from the standpoint of mitigation efforts, 00:18:47.688 --> 00:18:50.078 - we're willing to do whatever it takes. 00:18:50.210 --> 00:18:57.892 - Our contractor, which is Josh Walcott, is going to put a silk screen, as I understand it, standard of 00:18:57.892 --> 00:19:05.574 - silk fence. But indeed, we'll actually put two to make sure that we minimize any runoff of the water. 00:19:05.574 --> 00:19:13.256 - If we do have to take down other trees, we would take them down only to the stump. So we wouldn't dig 00:19:13.256 --> 00:19:19.582 - up the roots. We'd leave the roots there in order to keep the soil compacted there. 00:19:20.962 --> 00:19:30.046 - And we have recently had Nature's Link redirect some of the water that was standing in our backyard 00:19:30.046 --> 00:19:39.403 - into one of the spaces where it's one of the alternative sites. And I'm going to show you that in just 00:19:39.403 --> 00:19:49.214 - a minute, too. But that's why we want to build it there. Now, if you could go to the next slide for me. OK. 00:19:49.346 --> 00:19:57.006 - This is the first alternative site. And then if you could go to the next slide. This is the 00:19:57.006 --> 00:20:05.583 - second alternative slide. And then if you can go to the next slide. And this is the one I want to talk 00:20:05.583 --> 00:20:08.830 - about. Well, OK. So let me start here. 00:20:20.258 --> 00:20:28.487 - you're pointing at the tree that has to come out. And if we do one of the alternative sites, I think 00:20:28.487 --> 00:20:36.635 - that other tree has got to come out. And that other tree is the third largest tree that we have. So 00:20:36.635 --> 00:20:45.271 - we're losing our largest tree, which means if we end up having to pull that tree down, then that's losing 00:20:45.271 --> 00:20:50.078 - our two of our tallest three trees. But let me go into, so 00:20:50.210 --> 00:20:58.934 - Go to the next slide. Okay. This is my rendering of the proposed place we want to do it, which is in 00:20:58.934 --> 00:21:07.831 - the middle. And then there are the other two. And this is the slide I think I'll use to try to explain 00:21:07.831 --> 00:21:17.246 - why I think the two alternative sites don't work nearly as well as the first one. The first alternative site 00:21:20.162 --> 00:21:28.362 - You can see how far away it is from our house. So we would be building a walkway that's got to go all 00:21:28.362 --> 00:21:36.642 - the way there, which is quite a distance. Now I'm actually going to turn 70 in October. My wife is 65. 00:21:36.642 --> 00:21:44.762 - So one of the things we're worried about is a long distance that we'll have to walk as we get older. 00:21:44.762 --> 00:21:48.862 - A second problem that we have with that site there 00:21:49.730 --> 00:21:58.501 - Let's see. Oh yeah. Is to build a walkway there is gonna compromise a lot of my backyard because the 00:21:58.501 --> 00:22:07.620 - walkway would have to come from the main house all the way there so you can see how much of the backyard 00:22:07.620 --> 00:22:16.478 - is gonna be compromised by the walkway. And then that won't actually give us nearly as good of a view 00:22:16.898 --> 00:22:23.180 - of the ravine, right? The whole purpose of this is a tree house to get a better view of the ravine. 00:22:23.180 --> 00:22:29.714 - So the reason we're against that site is, number one, it would be a long walkway. That means it'll cost 00:22:29.714 --> 00:22:36.184 - more to build it. But then, as I said, we're worried about, as we get older, the difficulty of getting 00:22:36.184 --> 00:22:42.592 - out there. And then it doesn't give us nearly as good of a view of the ravine as what we're trying to 00:22:42.592 --> 00:22:46.110 - get with the other property or with the other location. 00:22:46.978 --> 00:22:55.809 - With respect to the second location, it is closest to the house, so it reduces the issue of the walkway. 00:22:55.809 --> 00:23:04.303 - And this may be my fault, but I am certain that if I put it there, it will compromise my septic tank 00:23:04.303 --> 00:23:06.910 - because I have the septic tank 00:23:19.682 --> 00:23:28.836 - means from the septic tank to the septic field has to run right through there. So it would mean we'd 00:23:28.836 --> 00:23:38.625 - have to completely move the septic field or septic connector. Of course, I don't know exactly how expensive 00:23:38.625 --> 00:23:46.782 - that's going to be, but it would clearly have to be done. The other problem with this one 00:23:47.298 --> 00:23:56.580 - As I said before, it's going to require me taking down my third largest tree on my property. So it actually 00:23:56.580 --> 00:24:05.346 - will disturb more soil than if we put it where we already have to take down the biggest tree. Oh, and 00:24:05.346 --> 00:24:14.027 - a sprinkler system. We just put in a sprinkler system literally six weeks ago. And locating it there 00:24:14.027 --> 00:24:15.230 - would clearly 00:24:15.522 --> 00:24:25.556 - require us to move the sprinkler system because part of it. So that's the reasons that we're kind of 00:24:25.556 --> 00:24:36.385 - against number one and number two, I'm sorry, the two alternative proposed sites as opposed to our preferred 00:24:36.385 --> 00:24:41.054 - one. Now, if you go forward to the next slide, 00:24:45.634 --> 00:24:55.360 - I thought this was a better picture in the sense that this shows you the one tree that we'd have to 00:24:55.360 --> 00:25:05.281 - take down. That's the tree that has to come down anyway. So that's the tree where we're really trying 00:25:05.281 --> 00:25:14.910 - to locate this at. Next slide. Oh, come back, come back to the tree, to the tree. That's the tree. 00:25:15.394 --> 00:25:23.420 - So you can see how that tree is dying. It has to come down. I mean, under any circumstance, we've got 00:25:23.420 --> 00:25:31.446 - to take that tree down. In the next slide. Okay. Then it just shows you the outside of the structure. 00:25:31.446 --> 00:25:39.315 - The next slide. That's all of the slides that I have. I understand that the packet that we received 00:25:39.315 --> 00:25:45.374 - has more pages, but the attachments that I received, that was the end of it. 00:25:45.474 --> 00:25:52.846 - All right, okay, so screwed up my presentation there. Although you should have gotten, I actually sent 00:25:52.846 --> 00:26:00.003 - three different emails. Yes, two of them, I believe, were of the same materials. And then the third 00:26:00.003 --> 00:26:07.231 - one was this one here. We have additional pictures of the tree in the packet you provided us on page 00:26:07.231 --> 00:26:14.388 - 12. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let's do it that way. That'll help. So I guess I was smarter than I 00:26:14.388 --> 00:26:15.390 - thought I was 00:26:15.490 --> 00:26:24.424 - in terms of preparing this packet. Can I take you then to? And to be forthcoming here, looks like your 00:26:24.424 --> 00:26:33.184 - time is down to three plus minutes. Oh, yeah, you know, I'm almost done. I'm almost done. That won't 00:26:33.184 --> 00:26:41.858 - be a problem. So if I can take you to page 15 in the packet. Page 15 is to give you a view of where 00:26:41.858 --> 00:26:44.894 - proposed site number one would be. 00:26:45.794 --> 00:26:54.275 - And then page 16 is really just an effort to show you how long of a walkway I would have to build from 00:26:54.275 --> 00:27:02.838 - our house to that location for the first alternative site that was suggested. So I'm really just trying 00:27:02.838 --> 00:27:11.154 - to display that's going to require a very long walkway, much longer than the one that we want to put 00:27:11.154 --> 00:27:14.942 - it would have to build for the proposed site. 00:27:16.290 --> 00:27:29.633 - And then the next one would be page 18. And 18, this shows you the area where the second alternative 00:27:29.633 --> 00:27:42.844 - site is at. And it's also trying to show you it's got to cut that two that's taking the refuse from 00:27:42.844 --> 00:27:44.958 - the septic tank 00:27:45.282 --> 00:27:53.497 - to the septic field, because it just has to be there. And in page 19, what I'm trying to show you there, 00:27:53.497 --> 00:28:01.556 - page 19, that tree, that's the tree that would have to come down if it's that second alternative site. 00:28:01.556 --> 00:28:09.615 - And you can see that's a very healthy tree. You can also see the tree that we're going to have to take 00:28:09.615 --> 00:28:14.622 - down anyway. So the core I'm really saying here is our proposed 00:28:15.010 --> 00:28:23.070 - site means less of a walkway to get there, less disturbance of the property itself. It actually preserves 00:28:23.070 --> 00:28:31.435 - a number of trees for us, and it doesn't create a septic problem for us. And as I said, we're very interested 00:28:31.435 --> 00:28:39.115 - in protecting Lake Griffey. So we're willing to do any additional mitigation measures that you think 00:28:39.115 --> 00:28:44.894 - would be helpful. And with that, I think that's the end of my presentation. 00:28:46.146 --> 00:29:01.165 - Thank you. Yes, I have questions. Can we go back to the slide with the three boxes showing the three 00:29:01.165 --> 00:29:14.846 - sites? Out of those three, you know, left, middle, right, your proposed site is the middle. 00:29:15.266 --> 00:29:24.676 - Because that's where the tree that's got to come down is at. I see. OK, great. I have another question, 00:29:24.676 --> 00:29:33.815 - but I forgot, and I'll think of it as you ask yours. I'm still thinking of mine. As I recall, you're 00:29:33.815 --> 00:29:43.678 - saying that this condition, that this structure is going to be elevated? It would be a two-story tree house. 00:29:43.810 --> 00:29:52.846 - I mean, I call it a tree south, but it's really just a two story structure. So you mean, so it's ground 00:29:52.846 --> 00:30:01.708 - level going up. Okay. It's not that you have pillars that go up and then you get to the tree. No, no, 00:30:01.708 --> 00:30:10.658 - no, no, no. This is built directly on the ground. My second question is for staff. We're worried about 00:30:10.658 --> 00:30:13.438 - the 15% slope and I'm very much 00:30:13.698 --> 00:30:21.765 - appreciate your service as a law professor, oh my, for all those years. But also coming with such good 00:30:21.765 --> 00:30:29.753 - information about tree loss, because we do care about tree loss and disturbance of soil, as you do as 00:30:29.753 --> 00:30:37.585 - well. We're worried also about the 15% slope. This proposed structure, did I read in the notes that 00:30:37.585 --> 00:30:42.206 - it takes us to the 25% slope? Is that the differential or? 00:30:42.658 --> 00:30:51.825 - Can you clarify that for me? It seemed to me that it was 20 feet into the 15. Yes, I don't believe that 00:30:51.825 --> 00:31:00.639 - it encroaches into the 25%, but let me see if I can verify that one second. The slope also matters, 00:31:00.639 --> 00:31:09.982 - particularly to some of my colleagues. And while he's checking that, Mr. Brown, is the foundation a slab? 00:31:12.930 --> 00:31:19.663 - there's nothing underneath it. There's no basement or anything like that. Now, because there is some 00:31:19.663 --> 00:31:26.396 - slope to the ground, I guess there's got to be... Or the impartial crawl. Yeah. Yeah. So there's got 00:31:26.396 --> 00:31:33.062 - to be, I guess, some gravel that goes. Okay. Yep. Okay. I can answer Pamela's question now. It does 00:31:33.062 --> 00:31:39.262 - not encroach into 25% slope. It's only the 15% that's in violation. And is Mr. Talley right? 00:31:39.490 --> 00:31:47.630 - 20 feet into the 15%. 20 feet out of a total footprint of what? 25. The footprint of the structure is 00:31:47.630 --> 00:31:55.851 - 25 by 25. Although something there said 32. Right. I do 32 because there's got to be a stairway to get 00:31:55.851 --> 00:32:03.991 - you from the first floor to the second floor. But that would be, we haven't quite figured out. I'm to 00:32:03.991 --> 00:32:07.742 - meet with the architect tomorrow to figure out 00:32:08.642 --> 00:32:15.903 - how he does that. So that's why I went with 32 feet instead of 25. But that's width. That's not depth. 00:32:15.903 --> 00:32:22.953 - So the 32 feet doesn't go into. Can I confirm with Mr. Myers that what we're seeing here is what he 00:32:22.953 --> 00:32:30.073 - submitted to 32 by 25 then? What was submitted was 25 by 25 with the addition of a six to seven foot 00:32:30.073 --> 00:32:37.335 - stairwell on the side. And he communicated that there was still some deliberations about architectural 00:32:37.335 --> 00:32:38.110 - standards. 00:32:38.882 --> 00:32:47.262 - And that stairwell wouldn't be impacted by the code, would it? The structure encroaches back into the 00:32:47.262 --> 00:32:55.806 - slope area. So it goes into the slope and then out into the slope. And so, yeah. Out of curiosity, from 00:32:55.806 --> 00:33:04.186 - the picture that was shown. I don't want the stairs. That's the whole notion. I want the stairs to go 00:33:04.186 --> 00:33:07.390 - up part of the way and then come back. 00:33:07.810 --> 00:33:16.850 - not go all the way back, because I don't want it encroaching into, yeah, I don't want it going up, because 00:33:16.850 --> 00:33:25.299 - that would start to block the view of the second floor windows. So I want it to go up and then come 00:33:25.299 --> 00:33:33.917 - back, if that helps. My question is, from the picture that you had of those three sites, the two that 00:33:33.917 --> 00:33:34.846 - staff said 00:33:35.138 --> 00:33:43.648 - could work, and you suggested otherwise. Why couldn't that third structure, or maybe it could, be brought 00:33:43.648 --> 00:33:51.837 - closer in to have less of an impact? Oh, the answer to that simple is it's a septic tank. I've got to 00:33:51.837 --> 00:34:01.150 - say 10 feet away from the septic tank. OK, so the tank is there. Yeah, yeah. You sort of see the satellite antenna. 00:34:01.250 --> 00:34:09.965 - the septic tanks just right on the ground. Yeah. Yes. It was just blown my mind there. Believe me, I 00:34:09.965 --> 00:34:19.025 - would have. But as I said, I'm trying to stay 10 feet away from the septic tank. Anywhere in your packet 00:34:19.025 --> 00:34:28.171 - here, I have just quickly thumbed through. Is there anything you've had a lot of professionals out there? 00:34:28.171 --> 00:34:30.846 - Have they put on pen to paper? 00:34:30.978 --> 00:34:40.319 - on the trade-off, the environmental trade-off versus encroaching on that 15-degree slope versus what 00:34:40.319 --> 00:34:49.846 - you're offering, which could have a less detrimental impact on the environment? Only in the sense that 00:34:49.846 --> 00:34:58.910 - they talked about how much damage is going to be done to the soil to take down that one big tree. 00:35:01.410 --> 00:35:09.066 - I mean, that's what's driven our selection of that spot was, if you had to take that anywhere, anyway, 00:35:09.066 --> 00:35:16.500 - that's the place to put it. All right. Do we have any other questions? I just have a question about 00:35:16.500 --> 00:35:24.082 - this would be contingent upon the building department issuing augmentation to the septic, the current 00:35:24.082 --> 00:35:30.846 - septic field. I mean, I imagine there would be a bathroom inside. This would be subject to 00:35:31.298 --> 00:35:39.156 - the building department and health department's approval of additional bathroom. So the health department 00:35:39.156 --> 00:35:46.865 - issues septic permits based on bedroom count. So I'm not sure how they would address another connection 00:35:46.865 --> 00:35:54.575 - to the existing septic tank. I don't know of the septic tank's current capacity, how many bedrooms it's 00:35:54.575 --> 00:35:55.390 - rated for. 00:35:55.490 --> 00:36:02.162 - So the petitioner, as part of those standard building permit process, would need to go to the health 00:36:02.162 --> 00:36:08.899 - department to make sure that a new connection to that system is feasible and is documented as part of 00:36:08.899 --> 00:36:15.637 - the process. So he says he might have one bed in the. No, no, I won't have a bed in there. I'm sorry. 00:36:15.637 --> 00:36:22.375 - Our house is a five bedroom house. And when we built it, I had two minor kids with me and two kids in 00:36:22.375 --> 00:36:24.158 - college. They're all gone. 00:36:24.802 --> 00:36:33.438 - So we have four vacant bedrooms. So we don't need another bedroom. I mean, the drawings don't depict 00:36:33.438 --> 00:36:42.074 - it like a bathroom or... No, there is a bathroom. Yeah, there will be a bathroom. Okay, that's an or 00:36:42.074 --> 00:36:51.052 - a kitchen? No, just a bathroom. Okay, that clarifies one question I had. Do we have any other questions? 00:36:51.052 --> 00:36:54.558 - Yeah, I'm struggling. Okay, let me be... 00:36:55.874 --> 00:37:08.121 - I'm struggling with this, okay? I'm not... Can I see the pictures of the front of the house? Yeah, that's... 00:37:08.121 --> 00:37:19.469 - Okay. Now is that... This is the proposed front of the tree house, the new building, yes. And so you 00:37:19.469 --> 00:37:24.638 - walk out your door and walk down the walkway, 00:37:24.930 --> 00:37:33.070 - You walked out your back door, I assume, and down the walkway, and then you go in the door here. OK, 00:37:33.070 --> 00:37:41.130 - I hear what you're saying. The answer to your question is no. First off, I would say, this is me on 00:37:41.130 --> 00:37:49.915 - AI. OK, so this is me putting it in an artificial intelligence, pushing it out. This is not an architectural 00:37:49.915 --> 00:37:54.590 - drawing. But what that would be is more or less the front 00:37:55.106 --> 00:38:04.197 - So you'd have maybe three or four feet that extend from the building for the two pillars. But the walkway 00:38:04.197 --> 00:38:12.772 - will have to come in, I would suspect, up there at the second level, not the first level. So what's 00:38:12.772 --> 00:38:21.348 - on the first level? What's in the first level? Yeah. Well, the purpose of the front level is just a 00:38:21.348 --> 00:38:24.350 - great room. So it would be a room. 00:38:24.770 --> 00:38:35.376 - that would have granite on the walls and pillars in the corners. OK, let me tell you one of my... Sometimes 00:38:35.376 --> 00:38:45.589 - we've had structures that encroach that were elevated. They were built on poles, on pillars, on stilts. 00:38:45.589 --> 00:38:53.150 - OK. So that each stilt only has a final disturbance of like one square foot. 00:38:53.826 --> 00:39:06.800 - as opposed to being built on a foundation. If you build this on a foundation, it's going to have a lot 00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:19.774 - of disturbance of this slope. But a room that's not critical to your treehouse. If you mean the first, 00:39:20.034 --> 00:39:27.683 - The first floor. It's absolutely critical because otherwise I'm at the ground level and I'm not going 00:39:27.683 --> 00:39:35.333 - to be able to see. No, I'm saying if you if instead of a full structure, you put lift this up and I'm 00:39:35.333 --> 00:39:43.282 - I'm not an engineer and I'm not an architect. But if instead of having a ground floor and a second floor, 00:39:43.282 --> 00:39:48.382 - you just put the second floor on stilts. Eliminate the first floor. 00:39:48.834 --> 00:39:56.813 - And eliminate, but lift it. Lift the floor. If I lift the first floor, and hence the second floor, because 00:39:56.813 --> 00:40:04.643 - you're telling me I can't go higher than 30 feet. What I'm saying is that instead of these being pillars 00:40:04.643 --> 00:40:12.324 - that you walk in the front door here, these are because you don't walk in the front door. You're going 00:40:12.324 --> 00:40:17.470 - to walk in the front door. No, no. You can't walk in the front door. 00:40:17.890 --> 00:40:25.474 - walk over the grass as opposed to the walkway. OK, so what I'm suggesting is if instead of this being 00:40:25.474 --> 00:40:33.208 - a solid structure, this is just pillars so that the whole thing is elevated. Well, what about the first 00:40:33.208 --> 00:40:41.164 - floor? You wouldn't have a first floor. You would just have the second floor, which would have a beautiful 00:40:41.164 --> 00:40:47.038 - view. The first floor is, OK, I'm sorry. Let me describe the first floor then. 00:40:47.298 --> 00:40:56.586 - because the first floor is to me as important as the second floor. So the point of the first floor is 00:40:56.586 --> 00:41:06.237 - to create a room that is just a fantastic room to be in. So it would have along each wall, granite slabs, 00:41:06.237 --> 00:41:13.886 - and those have already been picked out. The floor of it would be a gold tile floor. 00:41:14.658 --> 00:41:22.786 - And then the ceiling would be a coffered ceiling with specially designed towels in the middle. So the 00:41:22.786 --> 00:41:31.232 - point of the first floor is really to bring people into a space where they go, wow, this is an incredible 00:41:31.232 --> 00:41:39.758 - space to be in. I understand that. I understand that. I'm just not comfortable with this much encroachment 00:41:39.758 --> 00:41:43.902 - into 15 square, into a 15% slope. It's one of my... 00:41:44.194 --> 00:41:53.713 - touchstones. And in terms of taking down the tree, I mean, a tree can be taken down with minimal disturbance 00:41:53.713 --> 00:42:02.447 - of the soil. You don't have to dig out the root system. If you need to get rid of the tree, you can 00:42:02.447 --> 00:42:11.966 - get rid of the tree so it's not a hazard without actually disturbing much soil. And I'm just not comfortable 00:42:12.482 --> 00:42:20.034 - It's just one of my things. It's one of the things I care about particularly and I care about it in 00:42:20.034 --> 00:42:27.738 - Lake Monroe and I care about it in Lake Griffey is that there's no particular reason that this is not 00:42:27.738 --> 00:42:35.365 - the most convenient place to build. Number one is a practical place to build, but it means you got a 00:42:35.365 --> 00:42:40.350 - longer walk. But. Well, it's but it's. You mean as opposed to the 00:42:40.866 --> 00:42:48.802 - other one that's further away. Yeah, yeah. Number, if they're one, two, and three, I understand three 00:42:48.802 --> 00:42:56.583 - is impractical because it would be over your pipe from your septic system to your septic field. And 00:42:56.583 --> 00:43:04.987 - that's not a practical solution. That's not a solution. Number two, the preferred site is a, your preferred 00:43:04.987 --> 00:43:07.710 - site, it's got several advantages. 00:43:07.938 --> 00:43:18.501 - But it's got one big disadvantage, and that is it encroaches a substantial distance into the 15% slope. 00:43:18.501 --> 00:43:28.657 - Site one. Can you at least say in response, part of the reason it has to encroach is because I have 00:43:28.657 --> 00:43:36.478 - to say 10 feet away from the septic system. The encroaching is required. OK. 00:43:36.578 --> 00:43:45.980 - To put it in number two, to put it in your preferred location, it has to be as far back as it is. It 00:43:45.980 --> 00:43:55.568 - has to encroach that much. But if you put it in number one, it doesn't have to encroach at all. You've 00:43:55.568 --> 00:44:05.342 - got a longer walk. And you don't care about the trees? I do care about the trees. I do care about trees. 00:44:06.722 --> 00:44:16.389 - back more quickly, you know, the house is going to be there for a very, very, it's not a house, but 00:44:16.389 --> 00:44:26.249 - this structure is going to be there for a very long time, many, you know, for decades or a century or 00:44:26.249 --> 00:44:29.342 - whatever. And you want to put a 00:44:29.570 --> 00:44:39.293 - Our ordinance doesn't say you can't cut down trees. We care about cutting down trees, but you don't 00:44:39.293 --> 00:44:49.211 - need a variance to cut down the trees. You need a variance to extend into the 25 foot, 15% slope. And 00:44:49.211 --> 00:44:56.990 - that's the decision I'm presented with. Is it impractical? I know it cuts down. 00:44:57.666 --> 00:45:06.187 - And I'm sorry it cuts down trees, but you don't need any variance for that. You're allowed to do that. 00:45:06.187 --> 00:45:14.709 - You're not allowed to do this unless we decide there's something impractical about the other solution. 00:45:14.709 --> 00:45:23.065 - And frankly, I hate to say it. I'd love to say yes. I mean, one of the things we do is try to get to 00:45:23.065 --> 00:45:26.622 - yes, but I don't see how I can get to yes. 00:45:28.066 --> 00:45:37.731 - because this also makes it a longer walk for me as I start to approach 80. I mean, I'm 70 now, but that 00:45:37.731 --> 00:45:47.118 - doesn't move you. OK, OK. May I ask a question? Between the site on the left and the middle one, the 00:45:47.118 --> 00:45:56.318 - recommended and the preferred, in between those two, because there's a patch of ground, would that 00:45:56.578 --> 00:46:04.327 - would it ameliorate having to take the trees down? And would it make the walk from the house any shorter 00:46:04.327 --> 00:46:11.780 - if it were in between? So this is where I will have to take down the lead. It's conceivable. I don't 00:46:11.780 --> 00:46:19.381 - want to say for certain, but it's conceivable. The only tree that has come down is the tree that's got 00:46:19.381 --> 00:46:20.414 - to come down. 00:46:21.378 --> 00:46:29.190 - If I do move it, I'm still got to stay away from the septic field, septic tank, which is going to push 00:46:29.190 --> 00:46:36.623 - me into taking down more trees. I personally don't have a problem pushing it further to the left. 00:46:36.623 --> 00:46:44.284 - As I said, we really are siding it this way because we've got to take away the tree. And the second, 00:46:44.284 --> 00:46:51.262 - of course, is the length of the walkway is shorter with number two than pushing it further. 00:46:51.362 --> 00:47:00.549 - For the benefit of my colleagues, I think some of the issue is here, it's that 15 degree slope is not 00:47:00.549 --> 00:47:09.645 - a straight line, right? It's beyond page five of his handout, it jigs and jags and part of the house 00:47:09.645 --> 00:47:19.102 - is within the 15 degree slope. The entire septic field is in the 15 degrees. I mean, there's, it's just, 00:47:19.362 --> 00:47:28.956 - waving in and out, and there's just a very small portion. And that happens to be the portion where his 00:47:28.956 --> 00:47:38.643 - septic tank is, and he's got a legal perimeter around there that needs to be refrained. And so I would, 00:47:38.643 --> 00:47:46.654 - regardless of how you're leaning, just please keep that in mind. I'm going to ask for 00:47:47.010 --> 00:47:55.521 - calling the public up at this time. Good idea. And we'll see what anyone may or may not have to say. 00:47:55.521 --> 00:48:04.032 - Thank you. Thank you very much for your time. Now, if somebody does have a disagreement, you'll have 00:48:04.032 --> 00:48:12.459 - the opportunity to read about that. All right. Is there anybody in the room that wishes to speak on 00:48:12.459 --> 00:48:15.998 - behalf of this presentation and petition? 00:48:16.994 --> 00:48:25.976 - Is there anybody online that wishes to speak on behalf of this petition? All right. Is there anybody 00:48:25.976 --> 00:48:34.958 - in the room that wishes to speak against this petition? Is there anybody online that wishes to speak 00:48:34.958 --> 00:48:43.851 - against this petition? Seeing no one. Let's go ahead and have some dialogue here and see if there's 00:48:43.851 --> 00:48:45.630 - a motion to be had. 00:48:45.826 --> 00:48:53.478 - a piece of clarification with respect to tree removal on property. Tree removal does not require a permit 00:48:53.478 --> 00:49:00.914 - or a variance as long as it's not in the 15% slope when it's in area two. So the trees on the property 00:49:00.914 --> 00:49:08.278 - that are outside of slope greater than 15% are not protected. But if you are a tree and you're in the 00:49:08.278 --> 00:49:14.270 - 15% slope area, it is protected. So I just wanted to offer that clarification. OK. 00:49:14.722 --> 00:49:21.829 - So does that apply to the tree he's having removed? It's hard. Yes, I believe the tree that is planning 00:49:21.829 --> 00:49:28.799 - to be removed due to its health is in the 15% slope. But the other trees that he mentioned that would 00:49:28.799 --> 00:49:35.974 - have to be removed from option two from staff, I believe maybe outside of the slope area. So those would 00:49:35.974 --> 00:49:38.366 - not require a variance if you just 00:49:39.426 --> 00:49:48.987 - chose to remove those, but he's saying that he does not want to remove those with respect to his decision. 00:49:48.987 --> 00:49:58.191 - Could you put back the three? So you're saying with this one, which is the one on the left, would that 00:49:58.191 --> 00:50:04.446 - require, do you think that would require a variance for tree removal? 00:50:05.346 --> 00:50:12.677 - It's hard to see on this map without showing the shading of the sloped areas. The 15% is a seven and 00:50:12.677 --> 00:50:20.153 - a half foot fall over a 50 foot distance. So if this location that he's depicted is true that it's not 00:50:20.153 --> 00:50:24.798 - in any 15% slope area and it is located exactly where staff had 00:50:24.962 --> 00:50:35.825 - delineated, then those trees would not be protected. So he would theoretically be able to build there 00:50:35.825 --> 00:50:46.900 - without a variance and eliminate those trees without a variance, because it's all outside of the slope. 00:50:46.900 --> 00:50:54.142 - Could I ask? OK. I'm looking at the house. And is it in compliance? 00:50:54.274 --> 00:51:02.119 - Or was a variance issued previously so that this could be built within the slope, the home? The existing 00:51:02.119 --> 00:51:09.739 - house? Yes. So oftentimes we see with older properties, we will see LIDAR data and the contours shown 00:51:09.739 --> 00:51:17.658 - here. Sometimes that is contour data that was taken maybe before construction occurred, or it is actually 00:51:17.658 --> 00:51:23.934 - taken into account the slope of the property. So those slopes that are shown in red 00:51:24.034 --> 00:51:33.537 - right where the home is may have been manmade. And then the LIDAR data depicted them as steep slope, 00:51:33.537 --> 00:51:42.947 - but it was manmade. Okay, thank you. I do find it compelling that the amount of land that they have 00:51:42.947 --> 00:51:52.638 - to choose to build on is quite modest in size. And thank you, Mr. Daley, for commenting that the slope 00:51:53.218 --> 00:52:05.135 - undulates, goes in and out. It is not a straight line. Undulate, that is a good word. And it's not a 00:52:05.135 --> 00:52:17.052 - straight line. And so the property could not precisely fit any perfect scenario. The preferred site. 00:52:17.052 --> 00:52:19.294 - Yes. Any comments? 00:52:29.314 --> 00:52:39.805 - I just was thinking about it in totality, you know, and I understand the constraints of the septic field 00:52:39.805 --> 00:52:50.197 - and the septic tank and then the pipe connecting the two and the irrigation system, et cetera, but then 00:52:50.197 --> 00:52:58.590 - there's the 15% slope restriction into which you're significantly wishing to build. 00:52:58.722 --> 00:53:11.458 - Um, it's 32 feet by 25 feet, including the staircase. So that's, uh, causing me a little consternation, 00:53:11.458 --> 00:53:23.950 - um, more than a little consternation, you know, um, I understand the desire. And I believe while it's 00:53:23.950 --> 00:53:27.134 - 32, there's only 20 feet. 00:53:28.130 --> 00:53:36.157 - that is being impacted by this. There's only 20 feet that's impacting the 15 degrees. I see. I see. 00:53:36.157 --> 00:53:44.344 - Is there any thought about reducing the size of the structure so the slope is not impacted? Or is the 00:53:44.344 --> 00:53:52.451 - size of the structure deeply in your heart? And believe me, I understand about winning a first floor 00:53:52.451 --> 00:53:55.902 - and a second floor. I get that completely. 00:54:00.354 --> 00:54:11.451 - I hadn't even thought about doing it smaller. It's got to be big enough to make it worthwhile to do. 00:54:11.451 --> 00:54:22.879 - I mean, that would be a completely different project. Yeah. That's what I'd have to, I don't know. Just 00:54:22.879 --> 00:54:28.702 - had to ask. Yeah. Well, I'll say, because part of it 00:54:29.858 --> 00:54:38.707 - And I'll say one of my real concerns about that is because we do need a bathroom on that second floor. 00:54:38.707 --> 00:54:47.556 - That means the first eight feet of that second floor is taken up by the bathroom. And then there would 00:54:47.556 --> 00:54:56.147 - be the utility closet in just a little small space. So I've only got 17 feet plus 25. So it'd be 17 00:54:56.147 --> 00:54:59.326 - by 25, which I could put windows in. 00:54:59.970 --> 00:55:11.993 - all of a sudden I gotta pull that in five by five, for example, then it's 15 by 12. That would be. 00:55:11.993 --> 00:55:24.381 - That would, yeah. So that's why I'd have to do a lot of thinking. I'm gonna just remind my colleagues 00:55:24.381 --> 00:55:28.510 - here, I had Mr. Myers put up the, 00:55:28.834 --> 00:55:37.677 - definition of practical difficulties rises from conditions of the property that do not generally exist 00:55:37.677 --> 00:55:46.434 - in the area. You know, this ungulation is pretty unique. Precludes the development or use of property 00:55:46.434 --> 00:55:55.277 - in a manner enjoyed by other conforming properties. Yeah, I mean, he made the case of the distance and 00:55:55.277 --> 00:55:58.110 - the consistency with the design. 00:55:58.882 --> 00:56:10.754 - I think the petitioner made a reasonable claim for letter C, which is really in here. I'm tending to 00:56:10.754 --> 00:56:22.272 - this could be a coin flip. I'm tending to think that by the letter of our definition of practical 00:56:22.272 --> 00:56:26.974 - difficulties, I think he made his case. 00:56:27.682 --> 00:56:45.838 - There's also the impairment and stability of a natural or scenic area. The one that seems to. The standards 00:56:45.838 --> 00:56:56.766 - for design variance approval. Well, that's not in question here. 00:56:57.282 --> 00:57:06.547 - bring that to us to determine. What was the question? I'm sorry. Design standards variance, the rationale 00:57:06.547 --> 00:57:15.463 - for design standards variance, whether or not the condition has been met. You brought this forward to 00:57:15.463 --> 00:57:22.718 - us to define whether or not practical difficulties have been met. Is that correct? 00:57:23.106 --> 00:57:30.382 - Yes, so in the findings of fact for the petition, there was a finding that practical difficulties have 00:57:30.382 --> 00:57:37.447 - not been demonstrated. And then there was a finding that it could impair the stability of a natural 00:57:37.447 --> 00:57:44.511 - or scenic area based on the encroachment to the slope area. And that's item number one as stated in 00:57:44.511 --> 00:57:47.902 - 841-4F, standards for design variance approval. 00:57:49.186 --> 00:57:55.879 - So there were two conditions, if you will, that triggered staff's recommendation. And I may remind the 00:57:55.879 --> 00:58:02.378 - board that staff is recommending denial and oftentimes if we are recommending approval, we also may 00:58:02.378 --> 00:58:09.136 - offer conditions of approval. So if the board finds that there are specific conditions of approval that 00:58:09.136 --> 00:58:14.270 - they would like to add to a motion, then they are welcome to do so. Thank you. 00:58:18.466 --> 00:58:29.077 - have any other discussion or feel compelled to motion. I'm not sure how popular this will be but I'm 00:58:29.077 --> 00:58:40.214 - going to recommend we approve variance 26-28 brown eco area to 15% slope encroachment variance to chapter 00:58:40.214 --> 00:58:47.358 - 823 because in my estimation practical difficulties in terms of the 00:58:47.554 --> 00:59:00.880 - land site have been demonstrated. I'll second. It's been moved and seconded to approve VAR-26-28, which 00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:14.462 - is the brown eco area to 15% slope encroachment variance to chapter 823. A vote yes is a vote to approve. 00:59:14.562 --> 00:59:23.623 - I'll remind everyone that since we have four members tonight, we still need a vote of at least three 00:59:23.623 --> 00:59:33.132 - members for it to pass. Guy Lofman? No. Pamela Davidson? Yes. Mark? This gives me a lot of consternation. 00:59:33.132 --> 00:59:42.910 - It really does. I've been thinking about this and I drove by the property and I don't think I've really seen 00:59:43.170 --> 00:59:52.460 - proposal with this amount of disturbance, you know, 20 feet into the 15% slope. And that's 00:59:52.460 --> 01:00:02.771 - pretty significant. You know, I would kind of prefer to see if this could be continued to see if any 01:00:02.771 --> 01:00:11.550 - kind of redesign could be done or if the other conditions can be met. My suspicion is 01:00:11.874 --> 01:00:21.309 - that it's not going to meet the septic approval. And I'd like to make sure that it meets the septic 01:00:21.309 --> 01:00:30.933 - approval. But right now, as it is, it's a significant encroachment into the 15% slope. And I feel you 01:00:30.933 --> 01:00:41.406 - have a great vision for this. And you want that treehouse. You have the opportunity with the tree coming down. 01:00:42.018 --> 01:00:52.013 - but my vote is going to have to be no. I'm sorry. Skip daily. Yes. Okay. Set motion does fail by a vote 01:00:52.013 --> 01:01:01.816 - of two to two options are to put another motion to vote on, or this automatically is continued to our 01:01:01.816 --> 01:01:07.006 - next meeting, which isn't until October, October 7th. 01:01:07.138 --> 01:01:15.346 - So in other words, it's not an outright rejection. It is a continuance because we neither approved nor 01:01:15.346 --> 01:01:23.713 - denied the proposal. So this gives an opportunity to go back to the drawing board and figure out whether 01:01:23.713 --> 01:01:32.478 - those stairs are inside or outside the building, whether or not there's any accommodation that can be made to 01:01:32.706 --> 01:01:44.247 - move the structure slightly more into, you know, without encroaching as much into the 15% slope. And 01:01:44.247 --> 01:01:56.702 - then there's also going to be a third person here in October that could change the vote, so to speak, right? 01:01:59.970 --> 01:02:11.963 - if I could have found a better spot for it. Mr. Brown, I'm gonna ask you to hold off one moment. I'll 01:02:11.963 --> 01:02:23.956 - give my colleagues the opportunity for another motion. I don't know if they'll take that opportunity. 01:02:23.956 --> 01:02:28.894 - My guess is no. All right, at this point, 01:02:29.762 --> 01:02:38.956 - do we have to motion to continue with this? It's automatically. I'm going to go ahead and close this. 01:02:38.956 --> 01:02:48.330 - And with that, as Ms. Clements mentioned, there are five members of the BZA. Tonight there's only four. 01:02:48.330 --> 01:02:57.704 - You had a stalemate tonight. You'll have the opportunity to reschedule and to come back. I think you'll 01:02:57.704 --> 01:02:59.326 - probably have the 01:02:59.554 --> 01:03:09.484 - option of October or perhaps November, but you can work that out with your person at staff. I would 01:03:09.484 --> 01:03:20.110 - recommend you listen through and go on to CATS TV and watch this a couple times and hear whatever concerns 01:03:20.110 --> 01:03:29.246 - that were mentioned and sit down with your engineering team and sit down and see if you can 01:03:29.954 --> 01:03:37.425 - come a little closer to where the comments are, and maybe you'll find the votes. Maybe you won't. I'm 01:03:37.425 --> 01:03:44.970 - not sure, but we'll welcome you back in October or your soonest convenience. Thank you. Thank you very 01:03:44.970 --> 01:03:52.441 - much for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you. Your outstanding presentation. Outstanding. And thank 01:03:52.441 --> 01:03:56.030 - you, Mr. Myers and director. All right. Next up, 01:03:57.026 --> 01:04:06.278 - Number two and number three altogether. Variants 26-29 alpha and 29 Bravo. The Rocky Side Yard setback 01:04:06.278 --> 01:04:15.530 - variance to chapter 804 and the Rocky Riparian area setback variance to chapter 813. Mr. Brown, before 01:04:15.530 --> 01:04:24.692 - you go forward with your presentation, has the petitioner complied with the statutory requirements of 01:04:24.692 --> 01:04:25.950 - notification? 01:04:26.530 --> 01:04:34.776 - yes fantastic if you could continue with your presentation thank you the purpose of this petition is 01:04:34.776 --> 01:04:43.104 - that the petitioner is planning planning to construct a 1200 square foot measuring 30 feet by 40 feet 01:04:43.104 --> 01:04:51.759 - detached garage on this property the petition site is zoned agricultural residential 2.5 agr and contains 01:04:51.759 --> 01:04:55.678 - 2.5 acres by deed more or less according to the 01:04:55.810 --> 01:05:02.651 - To chapter 804 of the CDO, the side yard setback for a property in the agricultural residential 2.5 01:05:02.651 --> 01:05:09.972 - zone is 15 feet from the property line. The proposed detached garage will sit three feet from the property 01:05:09.972 --> 01:05:17.019 - line instead, which is a 12-foot encroachment. In addition, a riparian area is present on the side and 01:05:17.019 --> 01:05:24.544 - rear of the property, which has a required setback of 50 feet from the center line. According to observations 01:05:24.544 --> 01:05:25.502 - made by staff 01:05:25.666 --> 01:05:34.829 - the detached garage will encroach seven feet into the required riparian area setback, which is demonstrated 01:05:34.829 --> 01:05:43.397 - in exhibits six and seven in the staff report. So a bit of background. Supplying staff was contacted 01:05:43.397 --> 01:05:52.051 - by the builder, Nick Rocky, in July of 2026 about the permit process. We informed him of the details, 01:05:52.051 --> 01:05:55.614 - and a pre-design was applied for PILP-364 01:05:56.290 --> 01:06:02.384 - During that review, the zoning inspector discovered that based on the location of the proposed garage, 01:06:02.384 --> 01:06:08.537 - a side yard setback, rear yard setback, and a riparian area setback would be required. But the planning 01:06:08.537 --> 01:06:14.750 - director communicated with a petitioner who agreed to move the proposed garage forward slightly in order 01:06:14.750 --> 01:06:20.784 - to avoid requiring a rear yard setback in addition to the other two variances you're hearing tonight. 01:06:20.784 --> 01:06:24.926 - The petitioner's property is practically bisected by a riparian area. 01:06:25.154 --> 01:06:31.752 - with the existing single Hamley family home and driveway access all on the eastern side of the riparian 01:06:31.752 --> 01:06:38.540 - area. There is an existing shed in the same general area as the proposed garage, which would be demolished 01:06:38.540 --> 01:06:45.012 - if this variance is approved. And we do acknowledge that there is some challenging topography as well 01:06:45.012 --> 01:06:51.102 - that the petitioner is trying to work with in placing the structure in their proposed location. 01:06:52.546 --> 01:07:00.016 - Here's the location map and zoning map of the property and surrounding area, as well as the comprehensive 01:07:00.016 --> 01:07:07.274 - plan and site conditions map. Here are some images of the property. The image on the left is a partial 01:07:07.274 --> 01:07:13.757 - view of a mobile home, as well as the existing home on the property. By mobile home, I just 01:07:13.757 --> 01:07:21.086 - mean a recreational vehicle. I apologize. The image on the right is a closer look at the existing home. 01:07:21.794 --> 01:07:30.932 - These two images show the proposed location, as indicated by some snakes that were put out. As I said, 01:07:30.932 --> 01:07:39.892 - the shed, as well as I believe the playground equipment, would be demolished or perhaps relocated in 01:07:39.892 --> 01:07:49.118 - the case of the latter. Here's a view of the area just west of the proposed location, showing a sharp D 01:07:49.410 --> 01:08:00.134 - a sharp decline in slope near the riparian area. And the images on these next two slides show the riparian 01:08:00.134 --> 01:08:10.357 - area itself. This is a certified plot plan that was done by a surveyor with an after the fact marking 01:08:10.357 --> 01:08:18.174 - showing the proposed location of the garage near where my mouse is on screen. 01:08:22.722 --> 01:08:31.722 - There is also an aerial of the property showing the riparian areas in question as well as the proposed 01:08:31.722 --> 01:08:40.635 - location of the garage. And so staff recommends denial of VAR-26-29A and VAR-26-29B. We feel that the 01:08:40.635 --> 01:08:48.062 - petitioner could redesign or relocate the structure to be 15 feet in height or less. 01:08:48.194 --> 01:08:54.294 - which under the standards of the county development ordinance would make it only require a five foot 01:08:54.294 --> 01:09:00.334 - side yard setback or even move it to another location to meet a riparian area setback. The petition 01:09:00.334 --> 01:09:06.797 - site also functions as a single family residential lot without the addition of a pole structure or garage. 01:09:06.797 --> 01:09:13.260 - And these petitioner has not submitted findings to support all of the criteria for practical difficulties. 01:09:13.260 --> 01:09:17.790 - And I will take any questions. Do we have anything imminent for Mr. Brown? 01:09:18.658 --> 01:09:28.358 - All right, let's go ahead and call up the petitioner and or a representative. If you could adjust the 01:09:28.358 --> 01:09:38.057 - mic to your liking and sign in your name. Sure. And when you're done with that, if you could go ahead 01:09:38.057 --> 01:09:42.622 - and speak your name into the microphone for us. 01:09:45.826 --> 01:09:53.236 - That's a reminder that anything that you say that needs to be on the record needs to be spoken into 01:09:53.236 --> 01:10:00.794 - the microphone. Nick Rocky. Nick Rocky. Rocky, could you raise your right hand? And do you swear that 01:10:00.794 --> 01:10:08.278 - the testimony you're about to give is the truth as you know it? It is. All right. We're going to set 01:10:08.278 --> 01:10:11.390 - 15 minutes on that timer and you're good. 01:10:11.874 --> 01:10:20.884 - OK, if you could go back to the plot map that shows the location of everything. This one on screen? 01:10:20.884 --> 01:10:30.344 - That works. I can work with that. OK. So with the property shaped the way that it is, the driveway comes 01:10:30.344 --> 01:10:40.254 - in right here, as you can see. This is the fence line right here. This is the riparian right away right here. 01:10:40.450 --> 01:10:49.693 - There really is nowhere else to build. This is it. Literally, this is it. There's nowhere else to go. 01:10:49.693 --> 01:10:59.208 - With this being the riparian right here, this was also called riparian right here, but it's not. I still 01:10:59.208 --> 01:11:09.086 - don't understand why it is, other than the fact that it's stormwater drain off. This is dry 99% of the time. 01:11:09.378 --> 01:11:17.797 - The only time there's water right here is when everything washes down. But there's no set stream. There's 01:11:17.797 --> 01:11:25.898 - no spring. I understand it's called riparian, but there's no water back here. No problem. We can move 01:11:25.898 --> 01:11:33.920 - it up. And I agreed to move it up. And the three-foot setback on the side, we can go to five. That's 01:11:33.920 --> 01:11:38.686 - not a problem. What we can't do is shrink the height of it. 01:11:39.106 --> 01:11:47.198 - The height is so we can store a boat and other vehicles. If we shrink the height, we can't put the boat 01:11:47.198 --> 01:11:54.978 - in there, which defeats the whole purpose of this. So I feel like I've done everything I can to try 01:11:54.978 --> 01:12:02.914 - and make this work. There is no other way to make it work. The photos that were shown of the riparian 01:12:02.914 --> 01:12:07.582 - over here, I don't really know how those are even relevant. 01:12:08.034 --> 01:12:14.905 - because it's not within 50 feet. It's not within 100 feet of what we're doing. So those right there, 01:12:14.905 --> 01:12:21.571 - I don't even understand why those were taken. But there it is if you want to see it. Like I said, 01:12:21.571 --> 01:12:28.374 - the back, there's no water. You're welcome to come and look. That's all I've asked for all along is 01:12:28.374 --> 01:12:35.449 - people to communicate and come and look and see what's actually happening. It's hard to see on a photo. 01:12:35.449 --> 01:12:37.694 - A photo's worth 1,000 words, but 01:12:38.274 --> 01:12:45.213 - your eyes see a lot more. I don't know what else we can do, but I'm game to listen if anybody has any 01:12:45.213 --> 01:12:46.846 - suggestions. Thank you. 01:12:50.402 --> 01:12:56.836 - I would like to start by saying, Mr. Rocky, of all the witnesses we've had, you're the only one who 01:12:56.836 --> 01:13:03.335 - ever figured if you carry the microphone with you, you can get up close to the. It just seemed a lot 01:13:03.335 --> 01:13:09.833 - easier. And I'm going to suggest it to witnesses in the future. And I would appreciate your figuring 01:13:09.833 --> 01:13:16.332 - out that little solution to our conundrum. That's what I do. I solve problems. My question for staff 01:13:16.332 --> 01:13:19.806 - is we've just heard the petitioners say they can move 01:13:19.970 --> 01:13:30.685 - the structure to comply more with the setback and with another issue, but the height is his question. 01:13:30.685 --> 01:13:41.399 - The documents we have that you denied, the petition that you denied, was it plan A or plan B with the 01:13:41.399 --> 01:13:43.710 - changes he agreed to? 01:13:45.410 --> 01:13:52.911 - So I will say that the petitioner and the representative has been very communicative. At first application, 01:13:52.911 --> 01:13:59.925 - we identified three variances. They moved it. We went down to two variances. And now they're stating 01:13:59.925 --> 01:14:07.148 - that they will try to maybe make it one variance. So if they move it seven feet, if you have seven feet 01:14:07.148 --> 01:14:14.302 - more, because you already moved it two feet, if you move it seven more feet north and stay out of that 01:14:14.786 --> 01:14:23.124 - that would make one of the variances no longer necessary. Now your request to move it over to meet a 01:14:23.124 --> 01:14:31.461 - five foot setback as sort of a moot point if the structure is more than 15 feet in height. So that's 01:14:31.461 --> 01:14:34.846 - just if you would like to make that as a 01:14:35.138 --> 01:14:44.570 - to the BZA since that is a standard in the county if something's accessory to a residence and it's 15 01:14:44.570 --> 01:14:54.002 - feet or higher or less, 15 feet high or less, it can be five feet from the setback. So right now what 01:14:54.002 --> 01:14:59.550 - he's proposing is three feet on the side. So if that helps. 01:15:06.690 --> 01:15:16.402 - What you're saying is that if we move the structure a few feet, then they can have the height they want. 01:15:16.402 --> 01:15:25.745 - If they move the structure seven feet north, they get out of the riparian setback and they no longer 01:15:25.745 --> 01:15:35.180 - need the VAR-26-29B and they only need the side yard setback. Right. Can we go back to the slide that 01:15:35.180 --> 01:15:36.382 - was just up? 01:15:38.146 --> 01:15:46.331 - Now, the red is the proposed structure. Yes. And we're saying move it a little farther away up here 01:15:46.331 --> 01:15:54.680 - toward where I've put my laser. Correct. OK. Mr. Rocky, are you saying that that's acceptable? That's 01:15:54.680 --> 01:16:03.111 - acceptable. We can do that. It's the height. I can't come down. But the height's OK if it's moved that 01:16:03.111 --> 01:16:04.830 - much. Is that right? 01:16:05.538 --> 01:16:13.254 - So he's exceeding the 15 feet. So he's exceeding the height structure of 15 feet. So his side setback 01:16:13.254 --> 01:16:20.895 - is 15 feet. So if he moves at seven feet, it will only be the side setback that we're talking about. 01:16:20.895 --> 01:16:28.687 - In terms of what you would need our approval for. Right. I just want to know in this photo right here, 01:16:28.687 --> 01:16:33.150 - if I may, this is taller than 15 feet, this barn. In fact, 01:16:33.538 --> 01:16:42.564 - all of the accessories around here are taller. They're all barns. Once again, Mr. Brown, on the side 01:16:42.564 --> 01:16:51.948 - setback, was that six feet that we were talking about? What's the side setback problem? The side setback 01:16:51.948 --> 01:17:01.063 - is supposed to be 15 feet for structures that are 15 feet or higher in height. So what is the deficit 01:17:01.063 --> 01:17:02.046 - that we're 01:17:02.562 --> 01:17:11.581 - experiencing. We are looking at a 12 foot encroachment into a 15 foot setback. So he's got a three foot 01:17:11.581 --> 01:17:20.426 - setback and he needs 15. That's correct. So assuming you move that seven feet north, that's all we're 01:17:20.426 --> 01:17:22.334 - looking at right now. 01:17:24.706 --> 01:17:32.165 - does not have 15 feet for the record. You don't have 15 feet to meet the side setback. You'd run into 01:17:32.165 --> 01:17:39.479 - the house. Right. So, so instead of it being a three foot, I could do five foot, but that's like my 01:17:39.479 --> 01:17:46.865 - limit. I can't at that point. We got you. We got you. We got you. We're just trying to understand if 01:17:46.865 --> 01:17:50.302 - and then statements. Okay. So other questions? 01:17:50.626 --> 01:17:59.639 - So as I understand it, you're saying you could move it a few feet north and a few feet. Absolutely. 01:17:59.639 --> 01:18:08.743 - Yes. And that would minimize the non-compliance. Yes. OK. Well, we'll see what the public has to say 01:18:08.743 --> 01:18:17.936 - and all that, but that's important concessions to me. Any other questions for staff or the petitioner 01:18:17.936 --> 01:18:19.198 - at this time? 01:18:19.714 --> 01:18:27.852 - All right, seeing nothing, we're gonna ask you to take a seat real quick and we may or may not bring 01:18:27.852 --> 01:18:35.910 - you back up. Is there anybody in the room or online that wishes to speak in favor of this petition? 01:18:35.910 --> 01:18:44.370 - Seeing nobody. Anybody in the room or online that wishes to speak in opposition to this petition? Seeing 01:18:44.370 --> 01:18:48.318 - no one. All right, colleagues, what do you have? 01:18:52.578 --> 01:19:03.850 - I want to fight back to that one again, one that we were looking at with the red. Yeah. From this, it 01:19:03.850 --> 01:19:15.232 - looks like there is nobody nearby who would be affected by this side yard setback. It's rural country. 01:19:15.232 --> 01:19:21.310 - We're looking at agricultural buildings, adjoining it. 01:19:21.602 --> 01:19:32.623 - I think we've gotten important concessions to minimize this. So I am going to be comfortable supporting 01:19:32.623 --> 01:19:43.750 - this petition with the conditions that I think he's agreed to moving. All right. I would like to, before 01:19:43.750 --> 01:19:49.790 - we get into this, I would like to motion to separate and 01:19:50.114 --> 01:20:02.066 - motion to continue variance 26-29 Bravo. Therefore that would give the petitioner the opportunity to 01:20:02.066 --> 01:20:14.254 - either come back or make the decision for to change the plan to seven feet making this move. That make 01:20:14.254 --> 01:20:19.934 - sense. Yes. All right. I would like to make the 01:20:21.122 --> 01:20:31.085 - If I can. If if he's comfortable making the changes where. Get out of here tonight and he can proceed 01:20:31.085 --> 01:20:41.146 - with his project, right? That's fine, but continuing this gives him the option to review something and 01:20:41.146 --> 01:20:50.718 - make the decision to dismiss and withdraw or to come back and plead that case again for us. Well, 01:20:51.650 --> 01:20:59.296 - If he's, it seems to me he is, my intuition, my instinct is that he is comfortable making those as a 01:20:59.296 --> 01:21:06.942 - condition of granting the, and he has people close to him who may be actual owners of this property, 01:21:06.942 --> 01:21:14.816 - who just might be nodding their heads in approval. So I think they'd like to get on with it rather than 01:21:14.816 --> 01:21:19.358 - come back. So. All right, so I hear no second to my motion. 01:21:21.090 --> 01:21:36.287 - What else do we have? Well, if any, I'll make a motion. I move that we approve variances 26, 01:21:36.287 --> 01:21:48.542 - 29A and 6, 29B, the sandifer. Now, wait a minute. No? That we're, that we, 01:21:50.370 --> 01:21:58.446 - How can I? Should I help you with that? Help me with that. Okay, great. You've made a motion to approve 01:21:58.446 --> 01:22:06.366 - those two, the Rockne side yard setback variance to chapter 804 and the Rockne riparian area setbacks 01:22:06.366 --> 01:22:12.734 - variance to chapter 813, subject to the condition as we just heard the petitioner 01:22:12.866 --> 01:22:21.377 - Uh, uh, say under oath that they will move the structure seven feet to the north. And what was the other 01:22:21.377 --> 01:22:29.726 - seven feet to the north? Three feet, five, five feet, five feet to the west and five feet to the west. 01:22:29.726 --> 01:22:38.236 - Subject to that condition. I just would like to ask staff one question. Would they move it to the north? 01:22:38.236 --> 01:22:42.046 - Is the side yard setback still necessary? Yes. 01:22:42.178 --> 01:22:49.980 - Okay and we have the option to either request that he move it or to grant his variance correct. So you 01:22:49.980 --> 01:22:57.706 - could deny the riparian area setback which forces them to move at seven feet you could continue it to 01:22:57.706 --> 01:23:05.735 - the October meeting in which case if he goes back to the drawing board tries to move at seven feet cannot 01:23:05.735 --> 01:23:11.870 - he doesn't have to pay to reapply for the variance. What I was trying to protect 01:23:12.578 --> 01:23:22.355 - But if you approve it, he doesn't have to move it. He could keep it. Because if you're saying approval 01:23:22.355 --> 01:23:32.037 - and then conditioning, he move at seven feet, he doesn't need that variance. Right. So that's why I'm 01:23:32.037 --> 01:23:41.150 - going to move that we grant 29A on the condition that they move at five feet west that we deny. 01:23:41.250 --> 01:23:49.785 - 29A move five feet to the west. We deny 29B because. Those are separate motions. Deal with one. OK. 01:23:49.785 --> 01:23:58.662 - Deal with one. Separate motion. I move we grant 629A on the condition that they move the structure five 01:23:58.662 --> 01:24:07.283 - feet west away from the property line. And also seven feet north? No. We're just looking at A, which 01:24:07.283 --> 01:24:10.782 - is side yard only. I'll second that. OK. 01:24:11.138 --> 01:24:20.300 - If I may, what's putting moving the structure five feet to the West would probably move it to the house. 01:24:20.300 --> 01:24:29.114 - What's I think the petitioner was saying is that he could move it an additional two feet to the West 01:24:29.114 --> 01:24:38.276 - for a total site. It's like a five feet. That's right. Is that correct? Yeah. OK, then then then I move. 01:24:38.276 --> 01:24:39.934 - So that thank you. 01:24:40.098 --> 01:24:47.923 - That was an important misunderstanding. For the record, the defendant was affirmative with that question. 01:24:47.923 --> 01:24:55.378 - Yes, we've been a little informal here. First, I withdraw my motion, and you withdraw your last one, 01:24:55.378 --> 01:25:03.203 - because you're going to change it, correct? We're starting anew. Starting anew. Starting anew. I withdraw 01:25:03.203 --> 01:25:09.182 - mine, you withdraw yours. That's true. All right, good. You want to try? No. OK. 01:25:09.698 --> 01:25:20.753 - grant variance 26 29 a on the condition that the total setback permitted the total encroachment permitted 01:25:20.753 --> 01:25:31.703 - is how many feet. The encroachment permit is is 10 feet. Yes. I'll second that one. Okay it's been moved 01:25:31.703 --> 01:25:34.206 - and seconded to approve 01:25:34.370 --> 01:25:43.762 - VAR-26-29A, which is the rocky side yard setback variance to chapter 804, with the condition of moving 01:25:43.762 --> 01:25:52.972 - the structure to only allow an encroachment of 10 feet on the eastern property line. A vote yes is a 01:25:52.972 --> 01:26:02.365 - vote to approve. Margaret Clements? Yes. Skip Daly? Yes. Guy Lofman? Yes. Pamela Davidson? Yes. Motion 01:26:02.365 --> 01:26:03.550 - is approved. 01:26:03.842 --> 01:26:13.931 - four to zero. If I understand it, if we simply deny 2629B, that's an acceptable outcome to the petitioners 01:26:13.931 --> 01:26:23.361 - because they can move the structure seven feet and then they don't need a variance. Well, we're not 01:26:23.361 --> 01:26:28.830 - here for their acceptance. We're here to make a decision. 01:26:29.346 --> 01:26:39.565 - but given that this will, that they don't really, they've acknowledged they don't really need this variance 01:26:39.565 --> 01:26:49.310 - and move to deny 26-29B, the riparian variance. I mean, Daniel, you've been working with this case and 01:26:49.310 --> 01:26:58.110 - this case, does this achieve the objectives of the landowner? I believe as stated during the 01:26:58.370 --> 01:27:07.189 - Petitioner's testimony that this would meet those standards. There's no movement north of nine feet. 01:27:07.189 --> 01:27:16.008 - Is that correct? That's necessary anymore. It's that the petitioner has agreed that they can move it 01:27:16.008 --> 01:27:25.438 - seven feet directly to the north through a redesign of the. OK, thank you. Then they won't need a variance. 01:27:25.438 --> 01:27:26.398 - Yes, yeah. 01:27:28.258 --> 01:27:37.351 - and and I'm just you know because I don't want them we keep it open if they run into problems they can 01:27:37.351 --> 01:27:46.444 - come back in and right I am not going to support that motion of denial straightforward because it does 01:27:46.444 --> 01:27:52.094 - not protect the petitioners right to come back and plead a case 01:27:52.514 --> 01:27:59.928 - should he go back to the drawing board and review this it's just it just just makes no sense it does 01:27:59.928 --> 01:28:07.269 - the same exact thing but protects the petitioner so i mean he can still go ahead with his um design 01:28:07.269 --> 01:28:14.683 - but if he gets into problems we still have the case open in case he needs to come back in and appear 01:28:14.683 --> 01:28:21.950 - before us so we're trying to help you out okay so you you're able to go ahead i also uh would vote 01:28:22.082 --> 01:28:30.737 - Well I'd like to make a motion that we continue. There's an open motion on the table. Is there a second 01:28:30.737 --> 01:28:39.476 - anywhere? It sounds like a no. I don't hear a second. All right you have the floor. I'd like to continue 01:28:39.476 --> 01:28:48.132 - VAR-26-29B. Second. Okay it's been moved and seconded to continue VAR-26-29B which is the riparian area 01:28:48.132 --> 01:28:50.878 - setback variance to chapter 813. 01:28:51.074 --> 01:28:59.131 - this would be continued to the October 7th meeting, but if the petitioner moves the structure so as 01:28:59.131 --> 01:29:07.349 - to not require this variance, then we will withdraw it from that agenda and they can receive a permit 01:29:07.349 --> 01:29:15.407 - sooner than that date. So a vote yes is a vote to continue this to October 7th, 2026, just in case. 01:29:15.407 --> 01:29:19.838 - Skip Daly? Yes. Guy Lofman? Yes. Pamela Davidson? Yes. 01:29:20.930 --> 01:29:28.513 - Margaret Clements yes okay motion is approved four to zero thank you beautiful property that's a beautiful 01:29:28.513 --> 01:29:35.671 - property and good luck with everything that you're doing there my suggestion is you continue to work 01:29:35.671 --> 01:29:42.829 - closely with staff and get the outcomes that you want and if you need you can come back hopefully we 01:29:42.829 --> 01:29:46.302 - won't see you all right let's let's move forward 01:29:47.874 --> 01:29:58.349 - Looking at number four on your scorecard, if you're following along, variance 26-30, the Quintana automotive 01:29:58.349 --> 01:30:08.247 - sales and or rental use variance to chapter 811. Mr. Brown, you've got the call on this as well before 01:30:08.247 --> 01:30:15.646 - you get into your presentation. Could you please confirm that the petitioner 01:30:16.130 --> 01:30:23.326 - withheld all of their statutory requirements on communication with neighbors? Yeah. Fantastic. You got 01:30:23.326 --> 01:30:30.521 - the floor. Thank you. So the purpose of this is that the petitioner is seeking to renew a discontinued 01:30:30.521 --> 01:30:37.507 - use of an automotive sales and or rental use on the property that taking the form specifically of a 01:30:37.507 --> 01:30:38.974 - used car dealership. 01:30:39.170 --> 01:30:46.130 - The petitioner intends to purchase the property and utilize it as their primary business location, according 01:30:46.130 --> 01:30:52.643 - to the use petitioner's use determination application, quote, used to showcase cars for sale will not 01:30:52.643 --> 01:30:59.220 - have any cars worked on at this location used for pickup and delivery of cars. Currently, the petition 01:30:59.220 --> 01:31:05.797 - site is vacant in terms of use, though there is a structure on site and retains the ability to operate 01:31:05.797 --> 01:31:08.862 - any uses in a limited business zoning district. 01:31:11.138 --> 01:31:19.324 - Prior to the adoption of the county development ordinance, and it's a map changes on December 18th, 01:31:19.324 --> 01:31:28.574 - 2024, this property was owned pre-existing business, which was defined as, quote, pre-existing business district 01:31:28.738 --> 01:31:35.539 - The pre-existing business PB district is defined as that which is primarily intended to accommodate 01:31:35.539 --> 01:31:42.476 - commercial and business service uses that were in operation prior to the adoption of this 1997 zoning 01:31:42.476 --> 01:31:49.413 - ordinance. The intent of the PB district is to identify locations of commercial activity that are not 01:31:49.413 --> 01:31:56.894 - supported by the comprehensive land use plan, but where commercial and service operations continue to exist." 01:31:57.122 --> 01:32:04.401 - This district has identified further purposes of maintaining commercial activities with business zoning, 01:32:04.401 --> 01:32:11.680 - while at the same time not allowing for the expansion of new business activity proximate to the location 01:32:11.680 --> 01:32:18.820 - of the PV district. Expansion of the business is permitted within the lot of record, however. The type 01:32:18.820 --> 01:32:26.030 - of business may be changed to one of equal or lower intensity as identified in table 2-1 permitted land 01:32:26.030 --> 01:32:27.070 - uses, unquote. 01:32:27.682 --> 01:32:34.813 - During the adoption of the CDO, all PV properties were rezoned to another more clearly defined zoning 01:32:34.813 --> 01:32:42.015 - district as staff and the commissioner saw it. Further, the prior planning director conducted research 01:32:42.015 --> 01:32:49.076 - and determined that the site was used as a residential site until 2011, and then an automotive sales 01:32:49.076 --> 01:32:55.998 - business called Morgan Auto Services moved into the property at that point. Since automotive boats 01:32:56.418 --> 01:33:02.941 - Automative slash boat repair shop was a high intensity use under the prior code. It was determined that 01:33:02.941 --> 01:33:09.465 - the automotive abuse was not legal as shown in exhibit eight on the staff report and a planning process 01:33:09.465 --> 01:33:12.350 - would be first be required to resume the use. 01:33:13.954 --> 01:33:20.101 - Now, the use of automotive sales and or rental is defined as establishments primarily engaged in the 01:33:20.101 --> 01:33:26.187 - retail sale of new and used automobiles, noncommercial trucks, motorhomes or recreational vehicles, 01:33:26.187 --> 01:33:32.577 - including incidental storage, maintenance and servicing. In addition, establishments involved in renting 01:33:32.577 --> 01:33:38.664 - passenger cars, noncommercial trucks, motorhomes or recreational vehicles, including incidents till 01:33:38.664 --> 01:33:41.950 - parking and servicing of vehicles available for rent. 01:33:42.530 --> 01:33:51.954 - This use includes but is not limited to airport transportation service, automotive rentals, automotive 01:33:51.954 --> 01:34:01.560 - sales, automotive supply, and motorcycle sales. The particularly important one is just automotive sales. 01:34:01.560 --> 01:34:09.886 - Here are the location and zoning maps of the property, as well as the site conditions map. 01:34:12.930 --> 01:34:21.316 - This is a potometry view of the property and the existing structure and photos of the same. Here's what 01:34:21.316 --> 01:34:29.540 - the petitioner has proposed so far as a preliminary plan for the property measuring the setbacks from 01:34:29.540 --> 01:34:34.942 - the sides rear as well as the length as the width of the property. 01:34:36.994 --> 01:34:44.256 - And here is a table of permitted land uses. As you can see from this automotive sales and a rental is 01:34:44.256 --> 01:34:51.447 - permitted in the general business and airport zoning districts. And the image on the right is a list 01:34:51.447 --> 01:34:58.638 - of currently permittable uses in the limited business zoning district as shown in chapter 807 of the 01:34:58.638 --> 01:35:05.758 - county development ordinance. So in regards to this case, staff recommends denial per chapter eight 01:35:06.050 --> 01:35:14.758 - District application of terms of the ordinance will not constitute unnecessary hardship when applied 01:35:14.758 --> 01:35:23.639 - to subject property. The petitioner or the owner have supplied new information under this use variance 01:35:23.639 --> 01:35:32.606 - request regarding why the use variance constitutes unnecessary hardship. And I will take any questions. 01:35:33.538 --> 01:35:43.966 - Let's go ahead and bring the petitioner or a representative up. I'm going to trust you've been paying 01:35:43.966 --> 01:35:56.030 - attention and now to speak into the mic and sign your name and then speak your name. My name is Christopher Quintana. 01:36:21.090 --> 01:36:28.313 - Mr. Quintana, could you raise your right hand? And do you swear that the testimony you're about to provide 01:36:28.313 --> 01:36:35.333 - is the truth as you know it? Yes. Fantastic. You're going to have 15 minutes. You've got it. Thank you. 01:36:35.333 --> 01:36:42.556 - So my objective here is to get my used car dealer license. In order to get that, I have to have a building 01:36:42.556 --> 01:36:49.982 - that can support up to 10 vehicles. And it has to be zoned accordingly. Right now, we're at limited business. 01:36:50.242 --> 01:36:58.545 - and we need to get to a general business zoning variance. So my idea with this dealership, we are looking 01:36:58.545 --> 01:37:06.614 - to do mainly online sales. The purpose of the location is going to be just for showcase for me. We are 01:37:06.614 --> 01:37:14.526 - going to do appointment only. It's not going to be ran every single day, but any time that I have an 01:37:14.526 --> 01:37:19.774 - appointment available due to state standards, I will be available. 01:37:19.906 --> 01:37:28.938 - I am sorry. I do want to minimize any impact on any of the neighbors. There's a couple areas on here 01:37:28.938 --> 01:37:37.970 - that I do not wish to utilize. We have already cleared up pretty much all this area. I got that boat 01:37:37.970 --> 01:37:45.214 - out of there. I'm not planning on storing any vehicles that aren't running here. 01:37:45.346 --> 01:37:51.934 - The area on the north side of the building up against this neighbor, I do not wish to really use most 01:37:51.934 --> 01:37:58.456 - of that. I don't want to impact any of their values. That is not our intentions. Mainly the south of 01:37:58.456 --> 01:38:05.173 - the building is the area that we are trying to utilize any kind of customer parking in the front. Maybe 01:38:05.173 --> 01:38:11.115 - vehicles right up in the front area also where that grass patches. In the future, I do wish 01:38:11.115 --> 01:38:13.246 - to do improvements to any of the 01:38:13.378 --> 01:38:26.986 - outside areas where the grass is maybe add gravel or asphalt on the sides. And then, yeah. Questions? 01:38:26.986 --> 01:38:40.994 - You have any questions for the positioner? I do want to reiterate, no mechanical work will be done here. 01:38:40.994 --> 01:38:43.262 - I mean, possibly 01:38:43.618 --> 01:38:50.477 - interior detail on the inside of the building, but nothing exterior is shown to the public. So I have 01:38:50.477 --> 01:38:57.201 - an offsite building at my home that I do all the mechanical work to. Any kind of deliveries will be 01:38:57.201 --> 01:39:04.059 - done at my house, like any kind of transports. So nothing is going to be used for this building other 01:39:04.059 --> 01:39:10.851 - than just a showcase. Mr. Brown, could you flip back to the picture you had prior to this? I believe 01:39:10.851 --> 01:39:13.406 - it showed the neighbor. Yeah, is that 01:39:14.082 --> 01:39:21.388 - Is the folks across the street, is that a commercial building? It looks like a commercial parking lot. 01:39:21.388 --> 01:39:28.480 - I believe that's a residential or agricultural use. At the very least, according to the zoning map, 01:39:28.480 --> 01:39:35.715 - it is zoned agricultural residential 2.5. That one is it's used as a motorcycle repair shop. This one 01:39:35.715 --> 01:39:37.630 - straight across down here. 01:39:38.818 --> 01:39:46.112 - I apologize, I thought Mr. Daley was referring to the property directly to the north here where my mouse 01:39:46.112 --> 01:39:53.337 - is indicated. But yes, the property directly across the street is currently used as a motorcycle repair 01:39:53.337 --> 01:40:00.284 - shop. Is that within proper code? That, I believe, might be in a similar state to the proposal that 01:40:00.284 --> 01:40:06.814 - the petitioner is doing. And as you can see from this map, it is also zoned limited business. 01:40:11.042 --> 01:40:20.641 - difference here between this property and the one across the street is the sales I believe automotive 01:40:20.641 --> 01:40:30.335 - sales and or rental am I correct that repair would be allowed in the agricultural if conditionally and 01:40:30.335 --> 01:40:38.334 - service in limited business would be permitted with standards it's the sales that is 01:40:39.778 --> 01:40:48.257 - the motorcycle business to across the street is long zoned limited business and repair is different 01:40:48.257 --> 01:40:57.330 - than sales so there's a little bit of difference there that we could look into now you mentioned something 01:40:57.330 --> 01:41:05.979 - about a desire to asphalt the driveway as well yes in the future if i am a permanent tenant here also 01:41:05.979 --> 01:41:07.166 - would that be 01:41:08.450 --> 01:41:15.759 - So if the use variance is approved by the board, what we would require is a site plan, a commercial 01:41:15.759 --> 01:41:23.214 - site plan, where we would go through the standards for parking, surfacing, landscaping, any detention 01:41:23.214 --> 01:41:30.888 - required, things like that. Multiple steps. The problem with turning it to general business is the other 01:41:30.888 --> 01:41:37.758 - uses that could take place on that property, because of course his intention is motor vehicle 01:41:38.018 --> 01:41:48.151 - repair and sales and just sales repair. Yes, he repairs him on another facility. So right now the request 01:41:48.151 --> 01:41:58.379 - before the board is under the CDOs defined use of automotive sales and or rental use. So if the petitioner 01:41:58.379 --> 01:42:01.438 - would like to optionally commit 01:42:01.570 --> 01:42:08.604 - under a written commitment to narrowing that use. That's something that we could hear from them tonight 01:42:08.604 --> 01:42:09.822 - and get recorded. 01:42:09.986 --> 01:42:16.407 - the meeting, but I'll also note Miss Clemens point just to clarify. So he's zone limited business and 01:42:16.407 --> 01:42:23.081 - this is a use variance. So what he's asking for and what he's saying is that there's no other appropriate 01:42:23.081 --> 01:42:29.376 - use on this property. Therefore, I would like to be granted this automotive sales and or rental. It 01:42:29.376 --> 01:42:35.797 - doesn't give him any other uses under the general business zoning district. OK, thank you. Thank you, 01:42:35.797 --> 01:42:39.134 - Jackie. That variance to just stay with me, correct? 01:42:39.522 --> 01:42:48.095 - So if I were to leave- It runs with the land. Sails with the property. Yes. Okay. Was there a pre-existing 01:42:48.095 --> 01:42:56.348 - use of auto sales? In 2011, as Daniel Brown mentioned in the beginning part of the presentation, there 01:42:56.348 --> 01:43:04.360 - was an automotive use, but there was a break in that use, and then it restarted, and then there was 01:43:04.360 --> 01:43:08.286 - an enforcement issue which required it to close. 01:43:08.738 --> 01:43:17.683 - So there was a break, then it was no longer a pre-existing business. They tried to use it and they weren't 01:43:17.683 --> 01:43:18.686 - allowed to. 01:43:18.818 --> 01:43:25.522 - Based on the prior director's research, there was a residential use there from 1997 to 2011. So I don't 01:43:25.522 --> 01:43:32.161 - know if there was an error in zoning it pre-existing business at the time, but their determination was 01:43:32.161 --> 01:43:38.607 - that it shouldn't have even been zoned pre-existing business. And if it was, it was a low intensity 01:43:38.607 --> 01:43:45.182 - use and it couldn't be transferred to the automotive repair or sales. Would have this worked in 2023? 01:43:47.330 --> 01:43:54.078 - No, at that time, we would have still required the same process as what we were mentioning. So it's 01:43:54.078 --> 01:44:01.096 - not like it was closed for six weeks or six months. It was closed. The prior auto sale place was closed 01:44:01.096 --> 01:44:07.845 - for a long time before now. So I don't know. What I heard from the owners is that they had a repair 01:44:07.845 --> 01:44:13.918 - shop there and there was a lot of vehicles around and a lot of waste around the building. 01:44:14.018 --> 01:44:21.066 - And whenever they had a complaint against them, they decided to just move out of that location completely 01:44:21.066 --> 01:44:27.982 - without filing any kind of zoning variance for themselves. But from what the owner told me is that they 01:44:27.982 --> 01:44:34.698 - kind of disappeared and everything was moved out and everything was gone after that. But as a repair 01:44:34.698 --> 01:44:40.350 - facility with a lot of waste. And about how long ago was that? Do you have any idea? 01:44:41.282 --> 01:44:49.732 - I do not. She didn't give me any specifics on that. I did see some aerial shots of some of these areas 01:44:49.732 --> 01:44:58.100 - back in the day, and I believe it was around the 2014 time era, right around there, just according to 01:44:58.100 --> 01:45:03.678 - aerial shots because you can see the mess that was on the property. 01:45:04.162 --> 01:45:14.778 - Okay, that's helpful. I was wondering whether I can talk myself into doing pre-existing business, 01:45:14.778 --> 01:45:26.261 - but I can't. That's too much for me to hang my hat on that. So we're back to this simple, straightforward 01:45:26.261 --> 01:45:33.086 - question. I understand we could say the general, put into car, 01:45:33.538 --> 01:45:44.382 - sales without without authorizer repairs or any other business uses is that correct? So repair is a 01:45:44.382 --> 01:45:55.442 - different use so they would not be able to do repairs in in addition to the sales. Right we could say 01:45:55.442 --> 01:46:03.358 - limited to car sales used car sales only if we wanted to be very strict. 01:46:03.586 --> 01:46:11.726 - Okay, thank you. Do we have any other questions for the petitioner? All right, seeing done, why don't 01:46:11.726 --> 01:46:20.264 - you go ahead and have a seat and we'll call you up if need be. Thank you. At this time, do we have anybody 01:46:20.264 --> 01:46:28.404 - present that wishes to speak in support of this petition? We have anybody online that wishes to speak 01:46:28.404 --> 01:46:30.718 - in support of this petition? 01:46:33.346 --> 01:46:43.993 - Do we have anybody present in the courthouse that wishes to speak against this petition? Come forward. 01:46:43.993 --> 01:46:54.537 - Same rules are going to apply except you're going to get a limited amount of time. If you're speaking 01:46:54.537 --> 01:47:01.566 - into the microphone and sign in and state your name for us as well. 01:47:20.610 --> 01:47:27.408 - here at Rutherford. What's your last name? Rutherford. Rutherford? Yeah. Okay. Mr. Rutherford, could 01:47:27.408 --> 01:47:34.206 - you please raise your right hand and do you attest that the testimony you are about to provide us is 01:47:34.206 --> 01:47:41.005 - the truth as you know it? Yeah. You can have three minutes. Sure. Go ahead. I live across the street 01:47:41.005 --> 01:47:47.870 - and there's been several businesses over the last several years come and go constantly. No gas there. 01:47:48.898 --> 01:47:56.857 - They just saved about one year because there's no gas. They can't eat. I kind of oppose this because 01:47:56.857 --> 01:48:04.974 - a business they had a few years ago was kind of a trashy place and a lot of people hung out over there 01:48:04.974 --> 01:48:12.933 - constantly in the evening and made noise and mischief. And I've been there going on 35 years and I'm 01:48:12.933 --> 01:48:18.686 - getting too old for that crap. There was an automotive repair shop there 01:48:19.650 --> 01:48:28.909 - About three years ago, before, after that, there was a guy who prepared equipment there. There was a 01:48:28.909 --> 01:48:38.351 - stencil equipment vehicles there and just recently a screen printer there. It used to be a gas station 01:48:38.351 --> 01:48:48.894 - years and years and years and years ago. And my understanding was that the gas tanks are still underground and the 01:48:49.058 --> 01:48:56.631 - person who bought this ground years ago, powered off with a pump set and buried it in black top concrete, 01:48:56.631 --> 01:49:03.562 - black top, I'm sorry. So I don't know if there's tanks to sit there, I have no idea. But I have, 01:49:03.562 --> 01:49:10.706 - you know, my concern is mischief at night and commotion and the motorcycle shop, he has problems at 01:49:10.706 --> 01:49:18.494 - nighttime, people were allowing him using stuff too. So I'm getting too old to listen to that kind of stuff. 01:49:19.266 --> 01:49:29.812 - But other than that, I haven't got a problem with business or anything, but it's just people come and 01:49:29.812 --> 01:49:40.461 - go constantly. Why? I don't know. There's a problem somewhere along the line. Is that all you have for 01:49:40.461 --> 01:49:46.974 - us? OK. Well, thank you. I have a question for Mr. Rutherford. 01:49:47.586 --> 01:49:57.054 - That sounds like it's been very you had a long series of bad neighbors and I that you don't want another 01:49:57.054 --> 01:50:06.161 - bad neighbor and I don't blame you. And I'm I don't know what staff would say, but we. We have some. 01:50:06.161 --> 01:50:15.178 - Assuming that you know if everybody agreed and it was binding that it could only be used car sales. 01:50:15.178 --> 01:50:17.342 - There'd be no shop work 01:50:17.634 --> 01:50:25.940 - they would only be in operation, that no operations would take place after 8 p.m. Would that make you 01:50:25.940 --> 01:50:34.247 - more comfortable? Yeah, it'd make me more comfortable, but like I say, people come there at nighttime 01:50:34.247 --> 01:50:42.635 - and I'm sure there's a drink going on, I have no idea, but I'd say this mischief goes on. Yeah, right. 01:50:42.635 --> 01:50:47.358 - I haven't got problems with auto sale, I mean, like that, 01:50:47.650 --> 01:50:54.113 - as long as it's not going to be repairs and stuff like that. Like I say, business comes and goes here 01:50:54.113 --> 01:51:00.450 - for some reason, constantly. Why? I don't know. It's got a history that you don't trust a bit. It's 01:51:00.450 --> 01:51:06.977 - nothing to do with Mr. Cantana, but it's got to do with the history of this property. It seems to draw 01:51:06.977 --> 01:51:13.440 - problems. It's out in the country and when people come by, there's people going back and forth, north 01:51:13.440 --> 01:51:16.862 - and south. So they know it's empty or it's not empty. 01:51:18.498 --> 01:51:30.530 - Okay, thank you. Thanks. All right, is there anybody else in the audience that wishes to oppose this 01:51:30.530 --> 01:51:42.561 - petition and be heard? Seeing nobody online that wishes to oppose this, I see a hand. Could our tech 01:51:42.561 --> 01:51:45.182 - crew please allow Deb 01:51:50.434 --> 01:52:01.713 - Can you unmute Deb, please, or Deb, can you please unmute yourself? Deb, you will have to unmute from 01:52:01.713 --> 01:52:12.770 - your screen. I think I got it figured out. All right. Hi, Deb. And I apologize, I don't know how to 01:52:12.770 --> 01:52:18.078 - get my camera going. Deb, can you hear me? Yes. 01:52:18.530 --> 01:52:27.810 - All right, can you please state your name? My name is Deb Tamaro, T-O-M-A-R-O. All right, Tamaro, could 01:52:27.810 --> 01:52:36.732 - you please raise your right hand and attest that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth 01:52:36.732 --> 01:52:45.744 - as you know it? Yes, it is. All right, we're going to set a clock with three minutes, and that's the 01:52:45.744 --> 01:52:48.510 - time that you're going to have 01:52:48.802 --> 01:52:55.738 - to share your thoughts. Go ahead. Thank you. I also live across the street. I joined properties with 01:52:55.738 --> 01:53:02.673 - Gary who just spoke. Our biggest concern, I want to echo and support Gary, but I also have questions 01:53:02.673 --> 01:53:09.746 - about lighting. I know a lot of car dealerships have very bright lights. And as Gary said, we live out 01:53:09.746 --> 01:53:17.025 - in the country. We love to see the stars. We already have some pretty bright lights from their motorcycle 01:53:17.025 --> 01:53:17.918 - repair shop. 01:53:18.306 --> 01:53:25.660 - Um, and I'm just curious as to what the lighting situation might be over there and how that might impact 01:53:25.660 --> 01:53:32.594 - because they're completely surrounded by residential, you know, we're all residential around them. 01:53:32.594 --> 01:53:39.669 - Thank you. All right. Well, thank you for your thoughts. Is there anybody else online that wishes to 01:53:39.669 --> 01:53:45.342 - speak in opposition of this position? Please go ahead and click your hand raise. 01:53:47.874 --> 01:54:02.559 - I don't see any of that. We're going to offer you five minutes to address the two concerns that were 01:54:02.559 --> 01:54:17.534 - brought to you. If you could remember that you're still under our oath in that we expect your truthful 01:54:17.730 --> 01:54:24.955 - testimony. Yes, of course. Five minutes, please. All right. So for the lighting, I did not really think 01:54:24.955 --> 01:54:32.179 - into adding any additional lighting. Can we go to one of those pictures from the front of the building? 01:54:32.179 --> 01:54:39.195 - Because I believe there's some sort of light outside already. But no, I did not think that I'm going 01:54:39.195 --> 01:54:46.142 - to be adding any additional lighting. If anything, my business hours were going to be before 5 p.m. 01:54:46.562 --> 01:54:53.215 - I wasn't trying to stay there later than that so lighting shouldn't really be an issue since everything's 01:54:53.215 --> 01:54:59.555 - going to be during the day. I do know that I can't operate on Sundays too so nobody will be there on 01:54:59.555 --> 01:55:06.333 - Sundays showing any cars. Honestly I shouldn't be there on Sundays either unless I'm inside of the building 01:55:06.333 --> 01:55:12.735 - itself. I can always show vehicles inside the building for additional lighting but there was no plans 01:55:12.735 --> 01:55:16.062 - on adding any additional lighting to the exterior of 01:55:16.418 --> 01:55:25.970 - property. I do not want to operate late either, so you did mention 8 p.m. being maybe like a rule, but 01:55:25.970 --> 01:55:35.522 - I wasn't expecting to stay there that late anyways, especially it's by appointment also. What were the 01:55:35.522 --> 01:55:41.086 - concerns that Gary would like me to answer? Mr. Rutherford. 01:55:45.090 --> 01:55:53.507 - I think generally maybe speaking to the security of the property, how you will secure it after hours. 01:55:53.507 --> 01:56:01.923 - OK. I was going to add security cameras. I can't answer to the mischief that they've had in the past. 01:56:01.923 --> 01:56:10.505 - That's all going to be me and maybe one other person that operates, me and my partner. But for the most 01:56:10.505 --> 01:56:14.878 - part, I wasn't planning on having big groups around. 01:56:15.074 --> 01:56:22.968 - Everything's by appointment. I doubt I would have several people at once. It's not like a typical used 01:56:22.968 --> 01:56:30.632 - car dealership. A lot of the stuff will be online. Some vehicles may be sold before they even reach 01:56:30.632 --> 01:56:38.525 - my house or this location. I don't believe there'd be any mischief being caused by me. I am fairly new 01:56:38.525 --> 01:56:44.350 - to the city. I've lived here for four years. I came from Las Vegas, Nevada. 01:56:44.962 --> 01:56:53.785 - So I don't really have a big crowd around me. So that's pretty much it. All right. You addressed the 01:56:53.785 --> 01:57:03.132 - question I was going to ask. It's going to be you and one other colleague. And so two total. Yes, exactly. 01:57:03.132 --> 01:57:11.955 - That will be employee staff. OK, good. I wanted to know that too. Thank you. I just have a question. 01:57:11.955 --> 01:57:13.790 - Please. Mr. Kingana. 01:57:14.050 --> 01:57:23.523 - would you accept that if you had to add or replace any lighting that you would make it dark sky compliant? 01:57:23.523 --> 01:57:32.908 - Of course. Okay. That's helpful to the neighbor across the street. Thank you. I have a question regarding 01:57:32.908 --> 01:57:42.558 - the operation of business. It will help me better understand and to weigh in the concerns of your neighbors. 01:57:44.194 --> 01:57:54.781 - to use car lot, but your appointment only if folks are, I guess the operation of the business is not 01:57:54.781 --> 01:58:05.368 - clear to me. Will folks be able to drive by and go, oh, hey, I wanna go check out these vehicles and 01:58:05.368 --> 01:58:12.286 - be able to stop and get out of their vehicle and look around and, 01:58:12.450 --> 01:58:19.982 - kick the tire and look at a sticker on the windshield. Yeah. So I guess it's mainly for purchases at 01:58:19.982 --> 01:58:27.737 - that point where I'd have to make an appointment with them. It is required by the state to be available 01:58:27.737 --> 01:58:35.418 - at certain times. But in the very beginning, I know there's going to be a lot of inventory that I have 01:58:35.418 --> 01:58:40.862 - to research, research how to do finances with certain customers and like 01:58:41.026 --> 01:58:47.688 - offering financing. At the very beginning, I only want to do vehicles that are just paid by cash right 01:58:47.688 --> 01:58:54.222 - away. So I guess it's mainly, I need time to figure everything else out on that end, especially like 01:58:54.222 --> 01:59:00.884 - trying to figure out how to get to auctions, purchasing vehicles, how to get them to my place. I won't 01:59:00.884 --> 01:59:07.546 - be at the location very much. And then just doing sales online through CarGurus, Facebook Marketplace, 01:59:07.546 --> 01:59:10.910 - things like that, scheduling appointments that way. 01:59:12.194 --> 01:59:22.093 - Have you considered, and I'm saying this only because it was one of the concerns of the folks opposing 01:59:22.093 --> 01:59:32.376 - this, is have you considered some kind of lot security to shut down folks from even being able to approach 01:59:32.376 --> 01:59:37.854 - when you or your partner is not there, like some kind of 01:59:38.114 --> 01:59:45.208 - chain or some kind of fence or something to that liking? Have you considered that? Oh, yeah. We thought 01:59:45.208 --> 01:59:52.507 - about adding bollards and having chains between both driveways. I don't want to impact anything up against 01:59:52.507 --> 01:59:59.465 - the north property over there. It's right where that yellow 50 foot setback is, but mainly right over 01:59:59.465 --> 02:00:06.422 - here in the front. But I believe we were just going to apply bollards and then just a chain that goes 02:00:06.422 --> 02:00:07.582 - straight across. 02:00:08.162 --> 02:00:17.370 - between both of those driveways whenever we're not there. And then we're going to have security cameras 02:00:17.370 --> 02:00:26.312 - too. Have you had the opportunity to knock on the door of the motorcycle repair shop and discuss and 02:00:26.312 --> 02:00:35.165 - get his or her feedback on best practices or some of the concerns of the traffic or mischief that's 02:00:35.165 --> 02:00:36.670 - being described? 02:00:37.218 --> 02:00:48.706 - any other questions of the petition or of staff? All right, thank you. Why don't you go ahead and have 02:00:48.706 --> 02:01:00.083 - a seat and we'll figure things out. Thank you. Lopman, I have a feeling you have some thoughts. Well, 02:01:00.083 --> 02:01:05.214 - the I'm very, very concerned about neighbors. 02:01:06.786 --> 02:01:16.907 - But these concerns are not universal to, not specific to this business, but generic. It seems to me 02:01:16.907 --> 02:01:27.128 - if we approve this with the conditions that there would be no commercial activity after 7 p.m., that 02:01:27.128 --> 02:01:30.974 - would minimize or eliminate the risk. 02:01:31.938 --> 02:01:41.123 - there after 7 p.m. doesn't have the reason right to be there because there's there's it's there no commercial 02:01:41.123 --> 02:01:49.639 - activities and there's no other reason for people to be there so I'm leaning toward approving it with 02:01:49.639 --> 02:01:57.822 - with that condition you also add the condition of the light yes and that if any lighting is added 02:01:58.050 --> 02:02:07.239 - that it would be dark sky compliant. I added or replaced. And or replaced. Yes. Well, I could second 02:02:07.239 --> 02:02:16.336 - that. We have other thoughts to be shared before a motion. That was that was consideration, but now 02:02:16.336 --> 02:02:21.886 - I'll make a motion. And the motion is that I move we approve 02:02:22.242 --> 02:02:31.967 - variance 26-30 with the conditions that there be no commercial activities after 7 p.m. on, and that 02:02:31.967 --> 02:02:41.789 - any lighting addition or replacement be dark sky compliant. And do you want to add that it's limited 02:02:41.789 --> 02:02:49.374 - to auto sales only? Limited to auto sales only, not auto repair. Second that. 02:02:52.770 --> 02:03:03.900 - Well, we have a motion and a second before you call role director. Could you clarify something quickly 02:03:03.900 --> 02:03:15.355 - for me? Their precedent of. The BZ a. Approving something with a condition of time restraints of business 02:03:15.355 --> 02:03:20.542 - operating hours. We have done that in the past. 02:03:24.258 --> 02:03:33.333 - Okay, so there's been a motion and a second to approve VAR-26-30 with three. I'm sorry, but it probably 02:03:33.333 --> 02:03:42.321 - should say 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. We don't want it opening, after seven is just, I think seven, all business 02:03:42.321 --> 02:03:51.047 - commercial activity between 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. Okay, do we have a second on that? I would second the 02:03:51.047 --> 02:03:54.014 - amendment. The amended amendment. 02:03:54.178 --> 02:04:03.122 - the amended motion has been seconded okay so it's been moved and seconded to approve var-26-30 which 02:04:03.122 --> 02:04:12.775 - is the quintana automotive sales and or rental use variance to chapter 8 11 with three conditions commercial 02:04:12.775 --> 02:04:22.782 - activity be limited to the hours of 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. all lighting that is added or replaced on the site shall be 02:04:22.978 --> 02:04:36.557 - in compliance with the Dark Sky organization, and that the use variance is limited only to automotive 02:04:36.557 --> 02:04:50.668 - sales. A vote yes is a vote to approve the use variance with the conditions as stated. Margaret Clements? 02:04:50.668 --> 02:04:52.798 - Yes. Skip Daly? 02:04:54.018 --> 02:05:05.512 - I'm going to explain myself. I'm going to vote no, because I'm not comfortable putting a governmental 02:05:05.512 --> 02:05:16.104 - restriction on business operating hours without a pathway for enforcement. So no. Guy Lofman? 02:05:16.104 --> 02:05:22.302 - That was a yes. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yes. Pamela Davidson? 02:05:22.466 --> 02:05:33.057 - yes okay the motion is approved three to one all right well congratulations you still have a pathway 02:05:33.057 --> 02:05:39.454 - to get there and being a good neighbor is always recommended 02:05:41.122 --> 02:05:51.351 - All right, let's move forward. We have numbers five, six, and seven. Mr. Myers, you're back up to the 02:05:51.351 --> 02:06:01.680 - table. Variance is 26-32, Alpha, Bravo, and Charlie. Turning point, Apostolic Church. Side yard, yeah, 02:06:01.680 --> 02:06:09.502 - yeah, I know. I'm not working well today, but thank you. Side yard, set back. 02:06:09.634 --> 02:06:17.518 - Max and previous cover variants and this another side yard setback variance to chapter eight oh four. 02:06:17.518 --> 02:06:24.783 - Mr. Myers, is the petitioner compliant with the statutory requirements for notification? Yes. 02:06:24.783 --> 02:06:32.512 - Thank you. Please proceed with your presentation. Thank you. So this is the turning point apostolic 02:06:32.512 --> 02:06:37.150 - church side yard setback variance to chapter eight oh four. 02:06:37.442 --> 02:06:44.877 - for a primary structure, a maximum previous cover variance chapter 804 for the entire site, and a second 02:06:44.877 --> 02:06:51.957 - site yard setback variance chapter 804 for an accessory structure. This property is located at 2633 02:06:51.957 --> 02:06:59.038 - North Smith Pike. It's a zoned agricultural residential, and we're in Richland Township section 24. 02:07:02.754 --> 02:07:09.110 - petitioners requesting three non residential development standards variances in order to redevelop the 02:07:09.110 --> 02:07:15.281 - petition site as a religious facility petition site is zoned agricultural residential and currently 02:07:15.281 --> 02:07:21.760 - contains a 676 square foot single family residence 480 square feet of a detached garage and a 984 square 02:07:21.760 --> 02:07:22.686 - foot pole barn 02:07:23.426 --> 02:07:31.241 - Proposed religious facility will consist of an 11,667 square foot primary building, a 2,251 square foot 02:07:31.241 --> 02:07:38.756 - accessory structure, new driveways, parking lot, sidewalks, landscaping and rain gardens, including 02:07:38.756 --> 02:07:46.421 - stormwater infrastructure. A future playground area is also proposed with the petition, but is listed 02:07:46.421 --> 02:07:49.502 - as a future possible future development. 02:07:50.818 --> 02:07:56.607 - Two variance requests are from the non-residential side yard setback requirement of the agricultural 02:07:56.607 --> 02:08:02.340 - residential zone, which is 50 feet for non-residential structures. That is for the proposed primary 02:08:02.340 --> 02:08:08.072 - building, which will be the residential, excuse me, the religious facility on the north side of the 02:08:08.072 --> 02:08:13.804 - property. And the relocated accessory structure, which is currently on the property, proposed to be 02:08:13.804 --> 02:08:16.670 - relocated to an area that will be along the south 02:08:16.802 --> 02:08:23.525 - of the property, and both of those will be in violation of the 50-foot non-residential side yard setback. 02:08:23.525 --> 02:08:30.185 - The primary structure will encroach 31.67 feet into the side yard setback along the north property line, 02:08:30.185 --> 02:08:36.844 - and the accessory structure will encroach 16.17 feet into the side yard setback along the south property 02:08:36.844 --> 02:08:43.250 - line. Please note that both structures will still maintain what would have been the normal side yard 02:08:43.250 --> 02:08:45.470 - setback for residential structures 02:08:45.602 --> 02:08:54.306 - which is a minimum of 15 feet. The maximum impervious cover of the property in this zoning district, 02:08:54.306 --> 02:09:03.356 - which is the AGR zone, is 35,000 square feet for a lot with 2.51 to 5 acres. Normally, a property that's 02:09:03.356 --> 02:09:10.078 - in a critical watershed like this one has a more restrictive impervious cover 02:09:10.178 --> 02:09:17.120 - requirements with respect to square footage. However, when a lot has a certain amount of acreage, it 02:09:17.120 --> 02:09:24.130 - is outside of that threshold for additional regulations. So this property is in the Jax DeFe critical 02:09:24.130 --> 02:09:31.140 - watershed, which is important in consideration of impervious cover. But like I stated, its acreage is 02:09:31.140 --> 02:09:38.494 - higher than what we would normally see with respect to additional restrictions regarding impervious cover. 02:09:39.746 --> 02:09:47.742 - So the proposed religious facility will result in 67,500 square feet of impervious cover. That includes 02:09:47.742 --> 02:09:55.662 - all of the structures, driveways, parking lots, sidewalks, et cetera, which is 32,500 square feet over 02:09:55.662 --> 02:10:04.120 - the current limit. Here on the screen, I have the definitions relevant to this petition. We have a definition 02:10:04.120 --> 02:10:09.502 - for religious facility, as well as a definition for impervious cover. 02:10:13.474 --> 02:10:20.866 - We have a page dedicated to practical difficulties if we need to come back to these with respect to 02:10:20.866 --> 02:10:28.332 - the petitions discussion. This slide is with regard to parking and impervious cover. So table 6-1 in 02:10:28.332 --> 02:10:35.872 - the county development ordinance requires that a religious facility have at least one space for every 02:10:35.872 --> 02:10:38.238 - four seats within the building. 02:10:38.434 --> 02:10:46.167 - The proposed development includes a total of 113 parking spaces, which is the minimum required for a 02:10:46.167 --> 02:10:54.283 - proposed capacity of 450 seats, which is what is proposed with this facility. Chapter 14-11 of the County 02:10:54.283 --> 02:11:02.399 - Development Ordinance provides an opportunity to modify that parking minimum as it relates to a violation 02:11:02.399 --> 02:11:04.926 - of the maximum impervious cover. 02:11:05.474 --> 02:11:13.756 - So specifically, chapter 814-11B1C reads, planning staff may approve a reduction of the number of required 02:11:13.756 --> 02:11:21.497 - spaces if the minimum required parking conflicts with the maximum impervious coverage permitted for 02:11:21.497 --> 02:11:29.780 - the site or tree canopy preservation area. Therefore, staff has the ability to reduce the minimum required 02:11:29.780 --> 02:11:35.198 - parking spaces from 113 down to 57 spaces per this chapter provision. 02:11:36.194 --> 02:11:42.742 - Reducing overall parking area could allow for future expansions on the property, such as the playground, 02:11:42.742 --> 02:11:49.040 - and also avoid needing another maximum impervious cover variance in the future if the structure, the 02:11:49.040 --> 02:11:54.590 - primary structure needs expanding or other expansions of impervious cover are warranted. 02:11:55.202 --> 02:12:01.949 - So part of the discussion this evening is staff will be curious to hear from the petitioner and stating 02:12:01.949 --> 02:12:08.631 - what maximum previous cover they need at the moment and what they might need in the future as to limit 02:12:08.631 --> 02:12:15.183 - the number of times that they may be coming back to this board for further variances with respect to 02:12:15.183 --> 02:12:16.286 - that regulation. 02:12:18.402 --> 02:12:24.121 - Here on the screen we have the location map again we're in richland township this is north smith pike 02:12:24.121 --> 02:12:29.785 - running north south and we have to the south west wood yard road the petition site has road frontage 02:12:29.785 --> 02:12:35.392 - only on north smith pike. Here we have the site conditions map you'll note that there are no slopes 02:12:35.392 --> 02:12:39.934 - greater than 25% which is the only percentage that's of regulation in this area. 02:12:42.370 --> 02:12:49.509 - I will note, with the contour lines here, too, you can kind of see a natural drainage swale cutting 02:12:49.509 --> 02:12:56.647 - through the property, running from the east to the west. And that will come up as an important fact 02:12:56.647 --> 02:13:03.929 - later on in the presentation. Now on the screen, we have a map of the critical watersheds. So you can 02:13:03.929 --> 02:13:09.854 - see the property is clearly identified in the Jax Defeat Creek critical watershed. 02:13:10.690 --> 02:13:17.990 - And also on the screen we have a map that indicates the property is located in the county development 02:13:17.990 --> 02:13:25.290 - ordinance urban area boundary, which is one of the triggers for the construction of sidewalks. So the 02:13:25.290 --> 02:13:32.590 - petitioner will be constructing sidewalks and they are not requesting a variance to that standard. On 02:13:32.590 --> 02:13:35.166 - the screen now we have table 2-804. 02:13:35.330 --> 02:13:41.891 - for the Agricultural Residential Zoning District, which details the maximum impervious cover value, 02:13:41.891 --> 02:13:48.451 - as well as the side yard setback value for non-residential use. Now we have a series of photographs 02:13:48.451 --> 02:13:55.012 - from aerial imagery showing the petition site in its current state, showing the existing residents, 02:13:55.012 --> 02:13:58.686 - the small detached garage, and the accessory pole barn. 02:14:02.306 --> 02:14:10.871 - Here we have some street view imagery showing the property in question. This view is shown from the 02:14:10.871 --> 02:14:19.692 - property immediately to the south, and it's zoomed in a little bit so you can kind of see the backyard 02:14:19.692 --> 02:14:24.574 - beyond the chain link fence, which is the petition site. 02:14:27.938 --> 02:14:34.462 - On the screen we have the letter from the petitioner's representative stating their requests with respect 02:14:34.462 --> 02:14:40.678 - to the side yard setback as well as the impervious cover variance and their rationale as to why they 02:14:40.678 --> 02:14:47.018 - believe the variances should be approved. We have a consent letter from the owners of the property for 02:14:47.018 --> 02:14:52.926 - the petitioner's representative to submit the variance application and operate on their behalf. 02:14:55.202 --> 02:15:01.547 - And we have a boundary retracement survey that shows the current conditions of the property. I will 02:15:01.547 --> 02:15:08.082 - note that the current pole barn on the property is meeting that 15-foot residential side yard setback. 02:15:08.082 --> 02:15:14.554 - And that pole barn structure is the one that's going to be relocated elsewhere on the property to the 02:15:14.554 --> 02:15:21.470 - south and west. On the screen, we have the conceptual site plan provided by the petitioner's representative. 02:15:21.570 --> 02:15:27.880 - showing the new structures as well as all the new hardscape or impervious cover. This page shows it 02:15:27.880 --> 02:15:34.380 - a little bit more zoomed in to give a bit more detail showing all the parking sidewalks. The accessory 02:15:34.380 --> 02:15:40.942 - structure is located to the south here along the south property line and the new building is here along 02:15:40.942 --> 02:15:47.252 - the north property line and then of course that future playground area as mentioned before. You can 02:15:47.252 --> 02:15:48.830 - see in the middle of the 02:15:48.962 --> 02:15:56.296 - page here, these oval shapes. Those are proposed rain gardens. I believe they are terraced as you go 02:15:56.296 --> 02:16:03.775 - down in elevation. And one of the rationale points provided by the petitioner is that they are wanting 02:16:03.775 --> 02:16:11.036 - to keep the side yards or encroach into the side yard setbacks so that they are able to utilize the 02:16:11.036 --> 02:16:15.102 - existing topography of that area for drainage purposes. 02:16:17.698 --> 02:16:24.655 - You will also note that the driveway entrance will also be slightly shifting towards the south instead 02:16:24.655 --> 02:16:31.612 - of being where it currently is, which is right along the north property line in the corner. We do have 02:16:31.612 --> 02:16:38.974 - one letter from the public. This comes from the neighbor to the north, which interestingly is also a church. 02:16:39.170 --> 02:16:45.806 - And that church actually received a special exception from the Monroe County Plan Commission in 1995. 02:16:45.806 --> 02:16:52.573 - Back then the zoning regulations were different and the church facility needed a special exception from 02:16:52.573 --> 02:16:59.274 - the Plan Commission. We don't do special exceptions anymore and churches are permitted in almost every 02:16:59.274 --> 02:17:04.414 - zoning district now and just must follow the standard site plan procedures. So 02:17:04.610 --> 02:17:12.029 - The petitioner provided some information as well as some dates that the staff was able to verify with 02:17:12.029 --> 02:17:19.522 - respect to the planned commission meeting minutes back then that their church did receive that special 02:17:19.522 --> 02:17:26.796 - exception and was discussed having two phases. They've only completed the first phase, and they are 02:17:26.796 --> 02:17:32.542 - hoping to initiate the second phase in the future. So as stated in the letter, 02:17:32.642 --> 02:17:38.921 - And I have physical copies as well for any members of the public, as well as members of the board that 02:17:38.921 --> 02:17:45.139 - talks about their concerns with respect to the development of their neighbor's property to the south. 02:17:45.139 --> 02:17:51.235 - OK, that brings me to staff's recommendation. So breaking this out into three different ones, staff 02:17:51.235 --> 02:17:57.453 - recommends approval of the side yard setback variance of Chapter 804, citing the findings of fact and 02:17:57.453 --> 02:18:00.318 - practical difficulties have been demonstrated. 02:18:00.546 --> 02:18:07.559 - That is for the side yard setback for the primary structure. Staff recommends denial of VAR-26-32B, 02:18:07.559 --> 02:18:14.643 - which is the maximum impervious cover variance to chapter 804, citing findings of fact, specifically 02:18:14.643 --> 02:18:21.657 - number 1C and number 3. Practical difficulties have not been demonstrated. And finally, VAR-26-32C. 02:18:21.657 --> 02:18:28.670 - Staff is recommending approval, which is the side yard setback variance to the accessory structure. 02:18:28.930 --> 02:18:36.329 - citing the findings of fact and that practical difficulties have been demonstrated. I will not take 02:18:36.329 --> 02:18:44.320 - any questions. Are there any imminent concerns that need to be asked of staff at this time? Seeing nothing, 02:18:44.320 --> 02:18:49.278 - let's go ahead and bring up the petitioner and or representatives. 02:18:56.706 --> 02:19:08.901 - If you could just be reminded to adjust your microphone as needed. Go ahead and sign in and then speak 02:19:08.901 --> 02:19:12.926 - your name. We'll apply that oath. 02:19:24.546 --> 02:19:30.649 - Are you going to be sharing your 15 minutes? I will be sharing my 15 minutes, so I'm having you go ahead 02:19:30.649 --> 02:19:36.635 - and sign in. We're going to need you both to sign in. And while that's happening, can you go ahead and 02:19:36.635 --> 02:19:42.622 - speak your name at least? Yes. My name is Chelsea Moss with Abramoss Design Group. Thank you, Chelsea. 02:19:55.426 --> 02:20:04.774 - and perhaps a few. Just to make sure it's picked up, your name? My name is Ron Hawkins. Ron? Pastor, 02:20:04.774 --> 02:20:14.400 - the church. Okay, pastor. If the two of you could please raise your right hand. Is the testimony you're 02:20:14.400 --> 02:20:24.766 - about to provide the truth as you know it? Yes. Yes. Fantastic. We're gonna set 15 shared minutes for you guys. 02:20:24.866 --> 02:20:33.108 - And you can go ahead. Okay. It's great to be here. I am the site engineer for this project and I'm mostly 02:20:33.108 --> 02:20:41.662 - going to address the impervious area as that is the portion that is most concerning from staff's perspective. 02:20:41.922 --> 02:20:49.151 - that's a great perspective. So I want to give you a little bit of a history and some insight into where 02:20:49.151 --> 02:20:56.311 - this church currently sits. This church is in the downtown Ellitsville area. It is right on Jax DeFeek 02:20:56.311 --> 02:21:03.540 - Creek. They have expanded the church in the past, and in an effort to meet their growing congregational 02:21:03.540 --> 02:21:10.491 - needs, they have actually applied and had plans designed and everything for another expansion. FEMA 02:21:10.491 --> 02:21:11.742 - turned them down. 02:21:11.970 --> 02:21:20.343 - right now. Part of the church is elevated. There is a portion of the church that is no longer usable 02:21:20.343 --> 02:21:28.964 - because of flood inundation and that they can't get it operational. Congregation keeps growing and they 02:21:28.964 --> 02:21:37.502 - are out of space. Their current seating capacity is 240 and their average attendance right now is 220. 02:21:37.890 --> 02:21:46.367 - That's over 90% capacity and the recommendation typically in church building is you shouldn't be exceeding 02:21:46.367 --> 02:21:54.448 - 80% capacity. They're well beyond that. So if they have visitors come, there's almost no seating. Ron 02:21:54.448 --> 02:22:02.688 - will talk a little bit more to that in the future or once I'm done. But from an engineering standpoint, 02:22:02.688 --> 02:22:06.174 - they can't expand where they currently are. 02:22:06.754 --> 02:22:15.291 - with their current capacity in their current site we are looking at about they currently have I believe 02:22:15.291 --> 02:22:23.910 - I wrote down 45,000 square feet of impervious area at their existing site just to give you a perspective 02:22:23.910 --> 02:22:33.022 - of where the impervious area we're talking about at 67.5 we're talking about doubling the size of the building 02:22:33.378 --> 02:22:43.931 - But we're not doubling the size of their existing impervious area. So this new site would be a better 02:22:43.931 --> 02:22:54.484 - use, a less impactful use per seat as far as impervious area goes. It is zoned agricultural, but this 02:22:54.484 --> 02:22:57.278 - is in the urbanizing area. 02:22:57.666 --> 02:23:06.305 - on Smith Pike, so it backs up against traditional agricultural area, but it's highly residential and 02:23:06.305 --> 02:23:15.201 - it does already have several church and childcare child development facilities in your proximity. Grace 02:23:15.201 --> 02:23:24.012 - Baptist is probably the largest church, Grace Church, which is just south of them. They are about 1200 02:23:24.012 --> 02:23:27.262 - feet south of this site and Grace has 02:23:28.098 --> 02:23:36.177 - about 61,000 square foot of a pervious area. Then we also have the Head Start and the villages just 02:23:36.177 --> 02:23:44.256 - south of us as well. So this isn't a unique type of development along Smith Pike. We're not talking 02:23:44.256 --> 02:23:52.415 - about putting a big church in the middle of nowhere. The church has been very thoughtful and mindful 02:23:52.415 --> 02:23:57.182 - in what they're developing. They're not going extravagant. 02:23:57.378 --> 02:24:05.668 - This has not got tons of wings and everything. It is a square building. It has a second story. They 02:24:05.668 --> 02:24:14.040 - are trying to use their space efficiently. We have designed this parking lot to be 113 spaces, which 02:24:14.040 --> 02:24:22.496 - is the minimum required by the ordinance. There are allowances for administrative reductions in that. 02:24:22.496 --> 02:24:24.734 - I know Drew mentions that. 02:24:24.834 --> 02:24:32.156 - in places in the report and the findings of fact my concern is and in talking with the church staff 02:24:32.156 --> 02:24:39.551 - that if we go much below that that is one seat for one car for every four people if we start pushing 02:24:39.551 --> 02:24:46.947 - below that we're not going to have enough parking for people when they get there that's that's going 02:24:46.947 --> 02:24:50.974 - to be your average family size coming to church and so 02:24:51.938 --> 02:25:05.848 - parking layout. 1 to 4 is actually more strict than the old ordinance, which was 1 to 3. So we. Got 02:25:05.848 --> 02:25:21.150 - on parking in my opinion to begin with. Um. The parking layout looks a little wonky. I'll give you. Um I know 02:25:22.050 --> 02:25:30.021 - the eastern most open space that is to allow for a front section addition somewhere down the line. 02:25:30.021 --> 02:25:38.072 - Right now, the expansion is going to be good for them for their foreseeable future. And although in 02:25:38.072 --> 02:25:46.124 - an ideal scenario, we would try to get full variance upfront. We understand that we're asking for a 02:25:46.124 --> 02:25:49.022 - substantial variance right now. And 02:25:49.186 --> 02:25:57.699 - the parking. They are looking for other options, and I have even brought up other options if they do 02:25:57.699 --> 02:26:06.127 - the addition in the future, but to plan for that right now, we feel is a little too far out. Um. So 02:26:06.127 --> 02:26:15.145 - at this point, all we've done is made sure our parking is laid out so that we're minimizing the disruption 02:26:15.145 --> 02:26:17.758 - to that while still providing. 02:26:18.466 --> 02:26:26.093 - I'm going to go to the next slide. Let's see. So from their current position, they bought this property 02:26:26.093 --> 02:26:33.427 - in 2024. They did buy it before the new ordinance was put into effect. But my clients did their due 02:26:33.427 --> 02:26:41.200 - due diligence. They did have a member of their trustees call and talk to planning. We're not sure exactly 02:26:41.200 --> 02:26:46.334 - who they talked to at the time, but they did do some research into it 02:26:46.754 --> 02:26:54.083 - As with many churches though, through planning and funding, we're just now getting to where we're getting 02:26:54.083 --> 02:27:01.135 - boots on the ground, wanting to actually get design documents for everything. And so that's where the 02:27:01.135 --> 02:27:08.118 - impervious area has kind of come up and become a bit of a sticking point. My concern with any of the 02:27:08.118 --> 02:27:14.686 - mitigations that Drew has recommended in reducing parking or reducing the size of the building 02:27:14.818 --> 02:27:22.383 - is that's not going to meet their purpose and what they're needing to do with this property. The longer 02:27:22.383 --> 02:27:29.948 - they're stuck on the property in the flood zone, the riskier it gets for them. There are certain limits 02:27:29.948 --> 02:27:37.950 - in flood ways, particular that if a large enough storm comes through and you get enough damage, rebuilding is 02:27:38.338 --> 02:27:45.259 - they're not going to be able to move to the site. And that can be prohibitive or prohibited by FEMA 02:27:45.259 --> 02:27:52.527 - if a certain percentage of a building is damaged. And so they are going to have harder and harder issues 02:27:52.527 --> 02:27:59.656 - the longer they stay in that building, not only because of capacity, but also just staying there. They 02:27:59.656 --> 02:28:05.470 - put a lot of time and effort in trying to get moved to the site. And at this point, 02:28:06.306 --> 02:28:13.076 - living waters did mention keeping a buffer. From the survey, the existing wood line buffers appears 02:28:13.076 --> 02:28:19.914 - to be completely on living waters property on that side of the parcel. We are not required to have a 02:28:19.914 --> 02:28:26.888 - buffer yard, but because our parking is along there, we will have very intense parking lot landscaping 02:28:26.888 --> 02:28:33.726 - with the trees, the shrubs, all the standards. We are not requesting any variances from landscaping. 02:28:33.890 --> 02:28:41.836 - So that will all be along there and be an incredible buffer between the Living Waters and this church. 02:28:41.836 --> 02:28:49.859 - So. I'm a preacher, I need to ask how much time I have. You have six and a half minutes. Six and a half 02:28:49.859 --> 02:28:58.267 - minutes? Okay, well, I won't take all of that. But I want to, first of all, I want to say that we appreciate 02:28:58.267 --> 02:29:00.350 - the opportunity to address 02:29:00.738 --> 02:29:08.820 - board and thank you for your consideration in this variance. I am, as I said, I'm the pastor. I've been 02:29:08.820 --> 02:29:16.825 - the pastor at Turning Point for 28 years. My predecessor, my mentor, my pastor was there for 34 years. 02:29:16.825 --> 02:29:24.752 - The church was founded in 1960 at 210 West Vine Street in Ellisville. They built alongside Jax DeFeat 02:29:24.752 --> 02:29:27.550 - Creek and we have been fighting Jax 02:29:27.842 --> 02:29:35.658 - Defeat Creek for years. We have experienced flooding. We have a fellowship building on our property 02:29:35.658 --> 02:29:43.552 - that we finally just gave up on because we had to keep going in and repairing it. And we decided our 02:29:43.552 --> 02:29:51.524 - money was better spent building a building fund and moving. We did try, as Chelsea alluded to, we did 02:29:51.524 --> 02:29:55.198 - try to build where we are now a few years ago. 02:29:55.458 --> 02:30:04.443 - FEMA said, the codes have changed in the last 20 years, obviously. No building, can't build anything 02:30:04.443 --> 02:30:13.428 - there, as far as FEMA said. Go back just a few years after I became the pastor, so 25-ish years ago, 02:30:13.428 --> 02:30:22.680 - our congregation grew from about 40 to about 80 within about a year or two. And we were in our current, 02:30:22.680 --> 02:30:25.438 - the building then seated about 02:30:25.666 --> 02:30:34.470 - 90 people 70 comfortably but we were pushing 70 8090 the shoe telling the foot how big to grow we kept 02:30:34.470 --> 02:30:42.846 - bouncing 70 to 90 and we wanted to move then had some trouble finding property then we decided to 02:30:42.978 --> 02:30:52.396 - by a home that was adjacent to our church property and demolished that. We were able to build, again, 02:30:52.396 --> 02:31:01.813 - that's been 20 some years ago, we were able to build a pretty interesting building elevated up out of 02:31:01.813 --> 02:31:12.062 - the flood zone. We built a sanctuary that seats 230, 240 tight. And we built the sanctuary, restrooms, office, 02:31:12.802 --> 02:31:19.652 - We still have our original building that is at ground level. That part of the church has taken on water 02:31:19.652 --> 02:31:26.305 - a couple of times, but we've been able to repair it. We started the building for children and youth, 02:31:26.305 --> 02:31:32.958 - but we've outgrown that. We have 20 babies in our church right now that are getting ready to go into 02:31:32.958 --> 02:31:39.940 - nursery class. We don't know where to put them. We have a lot of young adults. We're a multi-generational 02:31:39.940 --> 02:31:41.982 - church. In the last few years, 02:31:42.242 --> 02:31:52.598 - attendance has gone from about 160 to we're pushing 220 and more on our main Sunday service. So we have 02:31:52.598 --> 02:31:59.070 - tried for the last seven years to find property. We had an offer 02:31:59.266 --> 02:32:06.062 - on the land right across from Arby's in Ellitsville where they've got the apartments now. We had an 02:32:06.062 --> 02:32:12.927 - accepted offer and we're pursuing financing when COVID hit and the bank pulled out on us. So we were 02:32:12.927 --> 02:32:20.063 - disappointed about that. We've looked for land, I mean constantly, it's either way overpriced or there's 02:32:20.063 --> 02:32:21.694 - just not enough acreage 02:32:21.826 --> 02:32:28.985 - put a church. So we were ecstatic when we saw this property up for sale. We were on our way to Pichetto's 02:32:28.985 --> 02:32:35.806 - one night and my wife said that's for sale. So the next morning we met with our realtor. We had some 02:32:35.806 --> 02:32:42.694 - people in the church call the county, find out if there were any codes that we needed to be aware of. 02:32:42.694 --> 02:32:46.814 - We felt like we did our due diligence then and made an offer 02:32:47.010 --> 02:32:54.359 - purchased the land two years ago and as Chelsea said we've been working towards our financing towards 02:32:54.359 --> 02:33:01.780 - our planning and we're very disappointed to hear that this has come up because we were just so excited 02:33:01.780 --> 02:33:09.201 - about this this new property. I will tell you that I feel like we've done we're trying our best anyway 02:33:09.201 --> 02:33:16.478 - to build the building as she said in a square box we are going to use the main sanctuary for worship 02:33:16.578 --> 02:33:26.246 - slash recreation slash dinners that's what we're doing right now so we we've built as small as we feel 02:33:26.246 --> 02:33:35.915 - like we can we have 220 right now and we are i really feel like building a 450 seat auditorium is what 02:33:35.915 --> 02:33:42.110 - we need to do and i feel like we'll grow into that fairly quickly 02:33:44.994 --> 02:33:54.838 - Everything I'm telling you tonight is based on our history of growth and what I feel like is our projected 02:33:54.838 --> 02:34:04.406 - trends. And again, I say thank you for considering us tonight. Appreciate that. Go under six and a half 02:34:04.406 --> 02:34:10.846 - minutes. I want you to hang on and receive questions. My question is, 02:34:11.106 --> 02:34:20.769 - I read the materials and I've heard you both. Your attendance right now, 240 would be capacity, and 02:34:20.769 --> 02:34:30.722 - you're at 220. This new facility is 450, so it's not quite doubled, not quite doubled. And the parking 02:34:30.722 --> 02:34:35.070 - spots, which really infect impervious cover, 02:34:35.362 --> 02:34:49.645 - is 113 parking spots for 450. That's a lot of growth from 240 to 450 with those immutable parking spots. 02:34:49.645 --> 02:34:53.182 - So any insight onto that? 02:34:54.882 --> 02:35:03.288 - So they had a growth of 50 attendance in the last three years, and that is with a cramped space. And 02:35:03.288 --> 02:35:11.777 - your rate of growth is going to decline with a cramped space. People just will come and visit and not 02:35:11.777 --> 02:35:20.350 - feel like they have the space to stay. So with still getting a growth of 50 over the past three years, 02:35:20.578 --> 02:35:29.568 - the, I think the number that you guys were talking is within the next four years, five years, you could 02:35:29.568 --> 02:35:38.645 - easily see 360 and possibly more. And so growing into that, getting to that 80% is there. I mean, that's 02:35:38.645 --> 02:35:47.462 - potentially reaching that 80% in five years. They feel that the growth is there and that's in talking 02:35:47.462 --> 02:35:50.142 - both with the church, but also 02:35:50.466 --> 02:35:58.148 - their consultants, that's where this looks to be going. And so by putting in double the capacity, that's 02:35:58.148 --> 02:36:05.683 - what they're planning for. And the impervious cover, the playground is maybe potential. But that would 02:36:05.683 --> 02:36:13.218 - also affect impervious ground, I think, at some point, depending on what the surface matter was. Yeah, 02:36:13.218 --> 02:36:15.998 - Drew, I left you a voicemail on that. 02:36:16.258 --> 02:36:23.638 - If it's a mulch or something, my understanding was that that did not fall under impervious. 02:36:23.638 --> 02:36:31.660 - Is that incorrect? We understand if there's a concrete or a mat. Assholes. Yeah. But with a typical 02:36:31.660 --> 02:36:40.244 - more of a mulch playground scenario, which is what you guys are considering, we're not looking at anything 02:36:40.244 --> 02:36:43.934 - crazy fancy, that would be pervious, correct? 02:36:45.122 --> 02:36:51.744 - So on the screen, we have the definition for impervious cover. And it gives some examples. It says, 02:36:51.744 --> 02:36:58.166 - impervious services shall include without limitation rooftops, gravel areas, excluding landscape 02:36:58.166 --> 02:37:04.987 - applications, pervious pavers, asphalt or concrete, private access roads, driveways, and parking lots, 02:37:04.987 --> 02:37:12.005 - decks, patio areas, swimming pools, and tennis courts. So it's my understanding that if it's truly mulch, 02:37:12.005 --> 02:37:14.654 - which would be similar to a landscaping 02:37:14.786 --> 02:37:22.143 - feature that that would not count as impervious cover, but we would want to consult the stormwater program. 02:37:22.143 --> 02:37:29.022 - Yeah, I know on other projects I've had that that has been the determination. We've only counted the 02:37:29.022 --> 02:37:35.902 - concrete areas in a playground, but I just wanted to kind of confirm that. Thank you. As you stated, 02:37:35.902 --> 02:37:42.782 - the neighboring church or the church a quarter mile down the way. Yes. You said they currently have. 02:37:44.098 --> 02:37:54.575 - 1,000 square feet of impervious. That would be Grace Church. And they are about 1,200 feet south of 02:37:54.575 --> 02:38:05.156 - us, I believe. Yeah, yes, measurements quickly, so. Yes. I just have a question. You know, Ms. Moss, 02:38:05.156 --> 02:38:11.966 - it's good to see you again. Have you given much consideration to 02:38:13.026 --> 02:38:21.149 - pervious pavers. So for the ordinance, they don't help us. They don't give us any extra credit, and 02:38:21.149 --> 02:38:29.271 - that's why we've not pursued that. I see. So. I have a staff question. When they started looking at 02:38:29.271 --> 02:38:37.719 - this property, was the ordinance different so that they would have been able to proceed? So back before 02:38:37.719 --> 02:38:42.430 - December 18th, 2024, which is when the county development 02:38:42.530 --> 02:38:51.902 - ordinance was adopted. The ordinance regulated sites by building coverage in most cases. 02:38:52.354 --> 02:38:59.845 - know what the stormwater program ordinance was like at that time in its specific detail. But we do have 02:38:59.845 --> 02:39:07.192 - record of someone calling the office and inquiring whether or not a church would be permitted on this 02:39:07.192 --> 02:39:14.395 - property. And back then, the zoning was agricultural residential, which was very similar to what it 02:39:14.395 --> 02:39:21.886 - is zoned now. And the basis of the conversation was, yes, the use of a religious facility is permitted. 02:39:21.986 --> 02:39:30.112 - but please submit a pre-design for more information about the commercial development process of that. 02:39:30.112 --> 02:39:38.159 - And we have no record of any pre-design being submitted after that conversation, but we did not have 02:39:38.159 --> 02:39:46.205 - the maximum impervious cover regulations as they are today, as strict as they are today back then in 02:39:46.205 --> 02:39:49.790 - 2024. Let me ask the staff another question. 02:39:49.922 --> 02:39:59.900 - If the building has that footprint, and I know we can fudge around a little bit with parking spots, 02:39:59.900 --> 02:40:09.979 - not optimal, but we could. The impervious ground, I mean, that's kind of, just those two things have 02:40:09.979 --> 02:40:17.662 - really set them above the number they need, just the building itself and the 02:40:17.762 --> 02:40:24.994 - parking lot, correct, before the sidewalks, before everything else you need, just because of the footprint 02:40:24.994 --> 02:40:31.820 - of that building? I don't have a line item calculation of what the percentage of impervious cover is 02:40:31.820 --> 02:40:39.120 - of the sidewalks, what is of the hardscape, meaning parking and driveways. And we can look at the structure 02:40:39.120 --> 02:40:46.149 - and tell what its square footage is, along with the accessory structure. So I can't give you an example 02:40:46.149 --> 02:40:47.230 - of percentages, 02:40:47.554 --> 02:40:55.310 - A lot of the impervious cover, looking plainly at the site plan, does come from the structures as well 02:40:55.310 --> 02:41:02.990 - as the parking area and driveways. I'll allow you to respond to that after you allow me the answer to 02:41:02.990 --> 02:41:10.821 - what is the material of your little island there? So the kind of big, weird island in the middle? Well, 02:41:10.821 --> 02:41:16.318 - obviously it's meant to expand the parking and then expand the building. 02:41:16.418 --> 02:41:23.833 - What's the material of it? It'll be grass. At this time, the intent is that that will be grass. Now 02:41:23.833 --> 02:41:31.323 - you wanted to comment on that last? Yes. So I do have some quick calculations. So we have just under 02:41:31.323 --> 02:41:38.590 - 14,000 square feet is allocated to the buildings. So that is the main building and the accessory. 02:41:38.978 --> 02:41:48.310 - structure and then 47.5 is parking just the asphalt on the parking not even including the curbs the 02:41:48.310 --> 02:41:58.109 - remaining 6100 is your curbs and sidewalks and we've gone pretty minimal on on sidewalks and stuff we're 02:41:58.109 --> 02:42:08.094 - not going crazy on that but 6100 is that kind of remaining so the parking is our biggest but as i said the 02:42:08.194 --> 02:42:15.587 - we're concerned about reducing that number as of the size of families that they have. And connecting 02:42:15.587 --> 02:42:22.981 - to the existing sidewalk structure of the neighborhood is not going to be an issue? No, so we have a 02:42:22.981 --> 02:42:30.887 - connecting sidewalk. There is intermittent neighborhood sidewalks right now, but we do connect the sidewalk 02:42:30.887 --> 02:42:37.182 - along the north side of the parking all the way out to a new sidewalk along the road. 02:42:38.114 --> 02:42:47.691 - of course, been in and out of style. Any other questions for staff or the petitioner? All right. Depending 02:42:47.691 --> 02:42:57.000 - on what we have, we might invite you back up. Pardon me. At this time, is there anybody in the audience 02:42:57.000 --> 02:43:06.846 - that wishes to speak in favor of this petition? Please come on up. Been here for a while. You know the drill. 02:43:08.130 --> 02:43:37.918 - Please. If you could say your name for us. Justin Honeycutt. 02:43:38.018 --> 02:43:44.741 - Mr. Could you please raise your hand. Do you attest that the testimony you're about to provide is the 02:43:44.741 --> 02:43:51.134 - truth as you know it. Three minutes for your comments. Okay, I won't need that just I wanted to. 02:43:51.234 --> 02:43:58.371 - talk on a couple of things. So I am a board member of the church and some of the things I wanted to 02:43:58.371 --> 02:44:05.793 - address the attendance question. And so I didn't want to say we do have the numbers they said were spot 02:44:05.793 --> 02:44:09.790 - on, but we do actually have more members to our church. 02:44:09.890 --> 02:44:15.438 - than just that we have several quite a few of our older residents who don't like the crowds and they 02:44:15.438 --> 02:44:21.041 - say you know we'll join us or we'll come to the service as soon as you know we have more room to that 02:44:21.041 --> 02:44:26.589 - so we do have closer I don't know the exact number but it is closer to 300 ish members of our church 02:44:26.589 --> 02:44:31.038 - as opposed to just what the attendance is on the average so I wanted to add that 02:44:31.266 --> 02:44:36.730 - Also, there's a lot of ministries that we used to do or want to do that we're not able to do at this 02:44:36.730 --> 02:44:42.193 - time because of our building in. We don't have the space for that at this time, so we don't have the 02:44:42.193 --> 02:44:47.657 - kitchen anymore. We used to do some dinners and things like that for the community for the homeless. 02:44:47.657 --> 02:44:53.175 - We want to be able to do that and serve the community at our new building, which we're not able to do 02:44:53.175 --> 02:44:58.747 - at this time. So and we just we want to be good neighbors and and serve the community and just looking 02:44:58.747 --> 02:45:00.478 - for the opportunity to do that. 02:45:01.026 --> 02:45:08.641 - Thank you. Thank you. Is there anybody else in the audience that would like to speak in favor of this 02:45:08.641 --> 02:45:16.106 - petition? Seeing no one. Is there anybody online that would like to speak in favor? Raise that Zoom 02:45:16.106 --> 02:45:23.721 - platform in his hand. All right. Seeing no one. Anyone in the audience wish to speak in opposition of 02:45:23.721 --> 02:45:28.126 - this petition? Anybody online wish to speak in opposition? 02:45:31.554 --> 02:45:40.204 - Fantastic. Let's go ahead and have some discussion. Well, to me, the only real concern is the impervious 02:45:40.204 --> 02:45:48.524 - cover. The staff has recommended approval on the side yard setback, both of those, and I'm good with 02:45:48.524 --> 02:45:57.009 - that. The impervious service, I'm concerned about that. I mean, look at the weather out right now. The 02:45:57.009 --> 02:46:00.222 - rain is so hard. Where does it all go? 02:46:00.322 --> 02:46:09.635 - I have a lot of concerns about that. And I don't know how to address it because the physical footprint 02:46:09.635 --> 02:46:18.857 - of the building and 450 versus 113 spots. I mean, we could say, gee whiz, you could have fewer spots, 02:46:18.857 --> 02:46:26.814 - but that may be a problem going into the future. Well, my soft spot is people who start 02:46:28.770 --> 02:46:36.254 - one set of plans and then we move the goal posts. I'd like where we put the goal posts. I think the 02:46:36.254 --> 02:46:44.112 - impervious rules we have are very sensible and I don't like varying them, but they searched and searched 02:46:44.112 --> 02:46:51.970 - and searched and found a piece of property which would meet their goals. And I understand not then going 02:46:51.970 --> 02:46:55.038 - down with a set of plans because that's, 02:46:55.394 --> 02:47:04.534 - You gotta get the money. You gotta make sure you're gonna be able to pay. I've done building projects 02:47:04.534 --> 02:47:13.674 - at my church. I'm sympathetic with them having inquired saying it was looking positive. I'm certainly 02:47:13.674 --> 02:47:22.814 - comfortable with the recommended approvals, but I'm also comfortable with going ahead and saying that 02:47:23.330 --> 02:47:32.267 - started their planning and I'm willing to let them proceed on their original understanding. I'd like 02:47:32.267 --> 02:47:41.115 - to ask Mr. Myers, at the beginning or the middle of your presentation, you mentioned some curiosity 02:47:41.115 --> 02:47:47.486 - about a few subjects. Did the petitioner relieve any of your curiosity? 02:47:52.386 --> 02:48:06.808 - Let me get back to that one second. So I believe in most cases, yes, because the playground was communicated 02:48:06.808 --> 02:48:17.790 - as mulching rather than another type of surface that may be considered impervious. 02:48:21.506 --> 02:48:29.674 - It did not mention any additional expansion currently in their plans other than the playground. But 02:48:29.674 --> 02:48:37.841 - it is maximum curve is cover variances are not a blanket variance. They are determined with respect 02:48:37.841 --> 02:48:44.702 - to a certain request, just like buildable area and slope variances. So if they are. 02:48:44.802 --> 02:48:53.224 - If the variance for impervious cover is approved this evening, it's approved for the square footage 02:48:53.224 --> 02:49:01.646 - that they are proposing. And if that they need to expand in the future, then they will have to come 02:49:01.646 --> 02:49:10.489 - back to this board for further evaluation and another variance. Thank you. I have one question of staff. 02:49:10.489 --> 02:49:14.110 - In the back of the church, there were some 02:49:14.306 --> 02:49:23.440 - rain gardens that were established. Is there anything that they could do with regard to the planting 02:49:23.440 --> 02:49:28.414 - area in the back that could mitigate rainwater runoff? 02:49:34.658 --> 02:49:41.636 - Although I do have an environmental science background, I don't know all the particular options available 02:49:41.636 --> 02:49:48.285 - to them with respect to the topography of the site. The terraced rain gardens sound like a very nice 02:49:48.285 --> 02:49:55.197 - design, and I'm sure that their engineering firm has done their calculations or their math on the amount 02:49:55.197 --> 02:49:56.382 - of rainwater that 02:49:56.578 --> 02:50:04.728 - those areas are supposed to accommodate. But I'm sure that there are other opportunities for further 02:50:04.728 --> 02:50:12.959 - expanding the conservation efforts. The general idea for stormwater flow is to spread it out and slow 02:50:12.959 --> 02:50:21.190 - it down. So I'm not sure if they've entertained that idea for that back portion of the property. They 02:50:21.190 --> 02:50:23.934 - have not mentioned anything about 02:50:24.578 --> 02:50:32.986 - for future use of that area, whether it be for picnics or what you have. So I've invited you back to 02:50:32.986 --> 02:50:41.477 - help clarify some of that reminder that the oath is held. Yes. Yes. Thank you. So the intent is those 02:50:41.477 --> 02:50:49.967 - rain gardens will do some detent, like they will detain back and spread that flow out some. They will 02:50:49.967 --> 02:50:53.214 - also be the bulk end of our treatment. 02:50:53.378 --> 02:50:59.760 - getting any of the impurities out of that stormwater in order to meet the stormwater ordinance. But 02:50:59.760 --> 02:51:06.270 - then I have also, and we have not gone through and fully sized anything on purpose because this is so 02:51:06.270 --> 02:51:13.035 - critical to how this moves forward, but we have tons of space to work with. And so that very back corner, 02:51:13.035 --> 02:51:17.886 - mostly towards the north end, is where water is currently exiting the site. 02:51:17.986 --> 02:51:25.763 - it does make for a good area to put in additional detention, traditional dry detention in addition to 02:51:25.763 --> 02:51:33.615 - those bioretention areas because this is in a critical watershed it does have more stringent detention 02:51:33.615 --> 02:51:41.239 - requirements anyways so it will have kind of the most stringent in the county within those critical 02:51:41.239 --> 02:51:42.078 - watersheds 02:51:43.234 --> 02:51:53.143 - stormwater ordinance has gone to a set discharge per acre. And I believe the critical watersheds are 02:51:53.143 --> 02:52:03.053 - half of what the rest of the county is. It's pretty extensive, so. Let me assume that your client is 02:52:03.053 --> 02:52:11.294 - committed to every possible avenue, should we bang the gavel on approval. You know, 02:52:11.522 --> 02:52:18.788 - that area from the water runoff. Yeah, so we have already had the discussions about maintenance of these 02:52:18.788 --> 02:52:25.778 - items. I'll be providing them with full maintenance. So this will all be, you know, it'll go through 02:52:25.778 --> 02:52:32.698 - stormwater review. We'll have to put that in just as part of the normal design for this. They won't 02:52:32.698 --> 02:52:36.158 - get approved plans before stormwater approves it. 02:52:36.258 --> 02:52:43.039 - And in addition to that, I have had preliminary conversations with them about what the maintenance on 02:52:43.039 --> 02:52:49.887 - that looks like. Maintenance for stormwater management in the county now has to be recorded. So we put 02:52:49.887 --> 02:52:57.133 - together the maintenance manual and they have to sign an agreement that is then a recorded at the courthouse 02:52:57.133 --> 02:53:02.718 - for perpetuity of the project. So. I appreciate you coming back. Thanks. All right. 02:53:03.874 --> 02:53:13.357 - We have any other discussion here? Are we ready to move forward? We're ready to make a motion to approve 02:53:13.357 --> 02:53:22.570 - variances 26-32A, B, and C for the turning point church side yard setback variance to chapter 804 and 02:53:22.570 --> 02:53:32.414 - also the impervious cover variance to chapter 804. Based on? Based on practical difficulties, would you say? 02:53:33.186 --> 02:53:45.540 - would say. Would you? Yes, yes. Motion. I'll second it. Okay, it's been motioned and seconded to approve 02:53:45.540 --> 02:53:57.307 - VAR-26-32A, 32B, and 32C. That's the side yard for the primary structure, the impervious cover, and 02:53:57.307 --> 02:54:02.366 - the side yard for the accessory structure. 02:54:02.594 --> 02:54:14.019 - A vote yes is a vote to approve all three variances with no required conditions. Guy Lofman? Yes. Pamela 02:54:14.019 --> 02:54:25.335 - Davidson? Yes. Margaret Clements? Yes. Skip Daley? Yes. Okay, the motion is approved four to zero. Here 02:54:25.335 --> 02:54:30.014 - you go. I think we should run away. I know 02:54:30.242 --> 02:54:38.823 - We had decided to move the rural change to the end. But may I suggest we move? Is there any impaired? 02:54:38.823 --> 02:54:47.909 - May we do that next time for those of us who left windows down on our car? Sure. Yes. And are very stressed 02:54:47.909 --> 02:54:51.358 - about it. We're going to officially hear 02:54:51.714 --> 02:55:00.489 - adjourn the meeting suspending the administrative business until our next scheduled meeting. Thank you, 02:55:00.489 --> 02:55:07.998 - good luck, please continue to work well with staff and we'll see you guys down the road.