good afternoon slash evening everyone i would like to call tonight's meeting to order uh the county council meeting today is tuesday july nope don't want to go back in june um july 8th 2025 i'd like to note for the record we have council members henry iverson dekert wilt and fidel and
 absent right now and not seeing on teams is Councilmember Hawk. So we will still go ahead and get started because we have a quorum. So all those who are able-bodied will ask that you stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance. To the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands,
 One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. And heavy emphasis for all. All right. So we are to item number three, which is the adoption of tonight's agenda. Does anybody have any items that they would like to amend for tonight's agenda? No?
 I do and I will say for the record I know that first of all I just want to back up just a little bit because the reason why I say this is why I think I would like to make an agenda to tonight's meeting.
 that we would like to have for- department updates are usually something. That we like to have for departments to give a brief synopsis. And definitely give- an update to their particular department. And we encourage every single person that- for their department. To come in and provide the updates whether those are good updates or maybe not so good updates. County
 I would like to send an email to us- to. Have a letter to be discussed and I definitely think just one council member alone who will take up ten minutes. Of that- department update because I'm sure that they will have lots of questions I know myself I have a whole- notebook full of questions and so since we want to talk about
 say, and for the board of commissioners that are here, your department update for your letter that you will be discussing with council, since it is the business of council as well. I would like to put that to item number nine, which is presentations and discussions. I think that is a good point for this to be. So looking to council, does anybody have any objections to that? OK. So moved. All right.
 So all those in favor of adopting tonight's agenda, moving or adding rather, because it's not on the agenda, adding the discussion for the commissioner's letter in relation to SB1 to item number nine, signify by saying aye. Aye. So ordered. Thank you. All right. Next up.
 We are going to go to public comment. So for anybody that would like to make a public comment for items not on the agenda, please come forward to the lectern here in the Na'vi Hill Room, or you can raise your hand via Teams. And seeing none, we will continue to move forward.
 Next up, item number five again for department updates. Those are for items not on the agenda. You have a total of 10 minutes to come up to the election and provide your update. So with an exception of the amendment that we made, if there's anybody else that has an item on the agenda that they would like to make, or if you have a department update, please come forward and we see Ms. Kim Schell. Hello.
 Okay, Ken Shell, Council Administrator, I want to introduce to you Lehua Aplaka. She is going to be the new Assistant Council Administrator. She comes from the Recorder's Office and we are very excited that she is moving up to our department. I've also spoke with Recorder Swain and she's also excited
 for her move to this. She thinks it's going to be an awesome opportunity for her. And so she will officially start on July the 21st. But since this will be her first time, and she's going to be a face in the office, I wanted you guys to be able to meet her officially. And then that way, you're not going, well, who is that?
 kind of thing so i you know i'll welcome her and we'll officially send out an email welcoming her on her first day but you want to say anything? I have to give her the chance so but she she has a lot of Bloomington experience she's been here for 18 years her job experience i
 I think is going to absolutely complement the work that we do here in the council office. So I'm very excited for her to join our team. So thank you. Well, congratulations. I was delighted to help interview the candidates and serve on a little committee to help hire Lehua. And it's my joy that she accepted the job offer. So I welcome you and can't wait to work with you further.
 I also had the pleasure of talking to Lehua as well. You don't have to stay. But, you know, this also says a lot because we are keeping a county employee within the ranks of county government. And so that is a big thing and a big plus. And I welcome her to our family. So thank you. And he would have stayed a little bit longer, but she had an appointment. That's why she was rushing out completely fine. Yeah.
 And now we have Counselor Hawk. Yes, I was just going to say as I do always when I think, oh, I want to know something more about this person. And it appears that she knows has taken the hula dancing lessons. So I'm thinking she's got to be right on top of being a good employee. We've got lots we can learn from her. So it was exciting. It looks like she's had a happy life. So yeah. Thank you.
 All right. Any other? Again, how to pronounce her first name? Layhua. Layhua. Did we say that right? Layhua. Layhua. Layhua. Okay. Layhua. Okay. All right. Any other updates from departments for items not on the agenda? All right. Seeing none, we will move forward.
 We would go to consent agenda items, but there are no consent agenda agenda items for tonight. Say that five times fast. Item number seven is also nothing to go over because that's ongoing business. So we don't have any return in business for the council. And so now we go to the portion of our agenda item number eight, which is new business. And we have some of that.
 council I move to approve the highway department's request for a fund to fund transfer of cash from front 1000 county general to fund 9106 ccmg also known as community crossing matching grant of one million four hundred eleven thousand five hundred dollars
 and simultaneously approve an additional appropriation fund 9106-0000 CCMG grant of $1,411,500 in the supplies category. Second. All right, we got a motion and a second. We have Ms. Lisa Ridge here, our highway director. Welcome. Good evening. So this is just kind of protocol. We budgeted in the council county general fund
 If we were awarded the CCMG grant and we were for the 1.5 million, bids came in a little bit less. That's why it is a little bit less than the 1.5. So now we need to de-appropriate it out of the county general, put it into the grant fund, also do the cash transfer into the grant fund so that everything can run through that fund. All right.
 Thank you. Pretty self-explanatory. All right, I'm going to look to my right here to see if any colleagues have any questions or comments from Ms. Ridge. Just congratulations again on getting this. There's no guarantee we'll get more, so we'd better be really happy we got this one. There's definitely no guarantees moving forward anymore.
 Councilor Iverson. I want to echo my congratulations as well. Any dollars that we can bring in is just an added benefit, particularly as folks rely on you and your team to get around town. So congratulations. Looking to the left. Any colleagues have anything? All right. Next, we will move forward to public comment. If you have a public comment on this item, you can raise your hand via Teams, or you can come forward to the lectern here in the Night U Hill room. And monitoring Teams and seeing none.
 and seeing no movement here and council chamber or council chambers wrong building the net you heal room. May we please have a roll call vote. Councilor wilts. Yes. Councilor hawk. Yes. Councilor cross Lee. Yes. For Deckard. Yes. Councilor Henry. Yes. Councilor Iverson. Yes. Councilor final. Yes. Motion passes unanimous. Thank you. We'll move on to item C or Lisa.
 to date preparation. Council, I move to approve the Highway Department's request and fund 1000-0530 County General Highway Administration to deappropriate $1,411,500 in account line 23400, but two minutes. Second. All right, we got a motion and a second. Ms. Ridge, before you walk out. Sorry. It's OK. So yeah, this is just continuing to deappropriate to get everything balanced.
 Okay, thank you again seems pretty cut dry and look into my left here seeing any comments or questions. No. Oh, counselor Decker, I just really quick want to thank you for always being wise and working with everyone towards money management of all these things to make it happen.
 good stuff on the back end helps to make sure those programs happen out there for folks. And I know that you manage a whole lot more than roads, potholes, and ditches. So thank you. Looking over here to my right, does anybody have any questions? No? OK. All right. We will move forward with public comment on this item. If you have public comment on this item, you can come forward to the lectern here in the NatU Hill Room, or you can raise your hand via Teams.
 And seeing none, may we please have a roll call vote. Councilor Hawk? Yes. Councilor Crossley? Yes. Councilor Henry? Yes. Councilor Feidl? Yes. Councilor Wilts? Yes. Councilor Iverson? Yes. Councilor Deckard? Yes. Motion passes unanimous. Thank you. Next up is item D from the Youth Services Bureau.
 Council, I move to approve the Youth Service Bureau's request and fund 9103-9626 Project Safe Place Grant, the creation of two account lines, 20006 Safe Place Materials and 30058 Outreach
 and simultaneously approve additional appropriations of $3,000 in the supplies category and $6,880 in the services category for a total appropriation of $9,880. Second. All right, motion and a second. And it looks like we have Miss Vanessa Schmidt here virtually. And it looks like she is unmuted, so you can go ahead.
 welcome good evening hi good evening counselors um yes like mentioned i am here to just appropriate the second year of our indiana youth services safe place grant uh we were awarded this in july of 2024 and so this is just to approve our second year of funding for um this specific grant it does support our safe place program um outreach efforts materials and continuation of that crisis outreach program thank you and
 Councilor Hawk. Yes, and I apologize. It didn't get that phone call made to ask this question. Is this a reimbursable grant? Or because the numbers we're looking at right now, it doesn't look like as if that 9880 has been deposited, but this might be old information we have here.
 Correct. It is reimbursable. And so what they actually do is we send a monthly activity report to the Indiana Youth Services Association so they can observe our outreach numbers, our events that we attend, specific youth that we have helped, and they break that down by a 12-month amount. And so, every month, we're deposited the same amount, as long as we are showing our activity in that grant.
 Okay. The reason why I just didn't call your attention, it shows that according to our documents, that they do not have enough money. They have remaining balance available of $2,470.03 in that particular grant dollars. And they're asking for $9,880. So I just wanted to make sure that we're all aware
 that we keep an eye that they indeed get that every month, that nothing's happened at the state that would change this. And I expect that Vicki will keep a very close eye to make sure we don't run short. We've run short in that particular budget in the past because paperwork wasn't done appropriately, but that was a long time ago and that doesn't happen anymore.
 Yes, we I send in the billing every month. We ensure that that gets receded into the auditor's office and that that shows up in the ledger and allow. We do have to sometimes reach out and remind them that we're missing a month or two's payment and remind them of the activity that occurred. But we always try to reconcile. Because we simply are not supposed to ever run in the red, so I think we. Have to keep an eye on that I did.
 also talk with people from the Auditor's Office going over numbers. But maybe I should talk about that after we vote on this because it has to do with the Youth Services budget. Would you rather me wait until? Thank you, Councilor Hawke. Any other questions on this side? Okay, Councilor Decker. I appreciate you coming before us and I always like to use this every so often to ask a question related to the grant itself.
 If I'm any person, a young person or someone that just generally sees a safe place sign, what does that mean for me walking around or someone walking around?
 Absolutely. So youth that see those yellow and black safe place signs, that means that those locations have a trained adult, someone that works at that business, school, library, whatever it may be, that has been trained by our safe place coordinator at the Youth Services Bureau on how to respond to youth in crisis. And so typically they're just going to gather that information, call our agency, we dispatch a volunteer immediately, which is our staff, and we go from there. So it might mean coming back to the Youth Services Bureau for
 If that's what's needed, it may be just making a phone call to a guardian and mediating a tough situation. Or we might have to, you know, involve other external resources, whatever the issue is. But any time a kid sees those yellow and black safe place signs, if they feel unsafe, if there's issues at home, issues at school, they can always walk in.
 They don't even have to ask for help. They might say, what is that sign on the wall? Or why are you guys a safe place? We have trained those businesses to know that might be an indication that they need an adult to step in and help with whatever they're experiencing. Thank you so much. Anybody else on Councilor Woltz? I just wanted
 And maybe this is what counselor hawk was referring to, but I just wanted to have the auditor maybe comment or clarify on the fact that these types of accounts, sometimes have gone into the red that's not unusual right.
 Thank you for this opportunity. Yes, reimbursable grants are allowed to go into the red and then the reimbursement makes them whole again. So as long as we have, you know, an agreed upon contract where all parties have executed, that money will be coming in. Thanks. Anybody else have any questions?
 All right. Next up, we will go to public comment. If you have public comment on this item, you can come forward to the lectern here in the night, you know, room or raise your hand via teams. And seeing none, maybe please have a roll call up. Councilor Crossley? Yes. Councilor Iverson? Yes. Councilor Henry? Yes. Councilor Hawk? Yes. Councilor Wilts? Yes. Councilor Feidl? Yes. Councilor Decker? Yes.
 Motion passes unanimous. Next up, item eight. Council, I move to approve the Youth Service Bureau's request and fund for one one one dash zero zero zero zero donation dash BTCC of an additional appropriation of two thousand five hundred dollars in the services category. So we got a motion and a second. And go ahead, Miss Schmidt.
 Thank you again. So these are two different funds. One is a
 a stipend, if you will, for participation in the Delta Ahead project with our prevention coordinator. And so that was the flat $1,500 that was paid, that was agreed upon and an MOU executed with the commissioners. And then we have an MC3 summit sponsorship for our 10th annual youth summit coming in November. And so that is the thousand dollars that was from the Bloomington Health Foundation for a total of that $2,500.
 Thank you and I'll start over to my left and council will test her hand up. Yeah, first great to see amazing partnerships and the good work that is coming out of those. I would like if you wouldn't mind just a little information on what Delta ahead is because I had not heard of it.
 I thought you might ask. So what our participation looks like with ICD is the Indianapolis chapter of the against domestic violence. And so we work with them through our prevention coordinator. What the Delta ahead project works towards is that building safe and stable nurturing relationships for Hoosier families. So specifically our partnership has focused on increasing financial stability.
 equitable access to green spaces, addressing any harmful norms and narratives. Through our participation in the last year and a half or so, we have been able to make substantial support throughout the state for the paid parent leave, the creation of a few new parks, and then the building of several youth-led and parent-led cohorts and advocacy groups.
 And so we sit on a much larger committee and then our MOU agrees that while we participate for that year and attend those meetings in Indianapolis, usually virtually, that we would receive that $1,500 at the end of our participation. Go ahead. So will you continue participating on this committee into the future?
 Yes, as long as they are able to secure their funding for it and that project continues on a larger level, we will. We also have a lot of local efforts that kind of coincide with the same, you know, objectives. And so we'll continue that regardless within Monroe County. But this was a really good opportunity to work on a state level. Thank you. And looking over here to my right, Council, how did you want to
 answer or ask your question that you had previously. Do you want to go vote on this one first? And then this is it for youth services. So I wasn't sure if that's not I didn't want to talk about this particular item, but just the conversation I had today with the auditor's office was very helpful. As some of you may remember, we had reduced the rate
 for the income tax that goes to the youth services because they had such a high cash balance and it made a great deal more sense to reduce that rate and because we needed the dollars more over in the jail tax fund but we knew we had to keep an eye on it to see
 to make sure that they were continued to be able to operate and it certainly looked as though in discussing with the Auditor's Office at that from what they can see now that with the dollars that they have and remember this is all income tax dollars so it comes in every month but looks as though there's not going to be a need
 to increase that income tax this year. Remember, if we were going to have to, we have to do it by a certain deadline. I think it's the 1st of October or something, in order to get that revenue coming in for the 1st of next year. So I wanted to make sure that didn't get away from us and that we were following it. And I just wanted to share that. But that was the information. And thank you so much to the Auditor's Office for assisting.
 with that information. Can I see a hand up? Go ahead. Yes, after that call you had with my team, Carly put together a really good analysis, and I forwarded that to the entire council. It looks like just we made some assumptions, but if our assumptions are correct, it looks like we will need to address this for 2027. So we'll need to keep that in mind, OK? Thank you. Thank you. All right.
 if we don't have any more questions which it doesn't look like we do we will move forward to public comment again you know what to do but if you don't I will say it again please come forward to the lectern here in the night you hill room if you have comment on this particular item or you can raise your hand via teams and seeing none may we please have a roll call vote counselor Hawk yes counselor Deckard
 Yes. Councillor Crossley. Yes. Councillor Fiddle. Yes. Councillor Wilts. Yes. Councillor Henry. Yes. Councillor Iverson. Yes. Motion passes unanimous. Thank you very much. Thank you, councillors. Thank you. All right. Next up is item F, which is a series of for the health department. That's right.
 I move to approve the Health Department's request and fund 1159-0000 Health Fund. The creation of new account lines is outlined on the agenda and to simultaneously approve additional appropriations in those account lines in the amount of $422,761 in the personnel category. Second.
 All right, we got a motion and a second and I was just kind of scouring through and I didn't see Ms. Lori Kelly on Teams and also she's not in attendance. Looking to
 our dream team table, Michelle and Ms. Turner King. Have we heard nothing? And then to the liaisons here. Madam President, I know Councilor Iverson is trying to get a hold of Ms. Cully right now. If we cannot, would you be willing to entertain a motion to change the agenda to move this item back so that we can- Get a hold of it? Yes, try to get a hold of it. Yep.
 So council without any objection as we are trying to get a hold of Miss Kelly because she has quite a few items on tonight's agenda. I am going to move this item back After our discussion with the commissioners. Does anybody have any objections? Okay, so order all right next up it is
 I think the moment we've all been waiting for here, which is the presentation discussion portion, which we are going to invite the board of commissioners to come up to discuss their letter that they sent to counsel. So just go ahead.
 You ready? Yep. Excellent. Good afternoon. Good summer evening to you all. I'm happy to be here. I'm Julie Thomas, Board of Commissioners, Lee Jones, Jodi Madeira. Jeff Cockrell is here as our legal counsel. And I will be super brief and just providing some background for the public certification, really, because you all know the background.
 to this issue. But as we are working toward the point where we should be bonding for the Justice Center, we have run into Senate Enrolled Act 1. And there are two limitations specifically in SEA 1 that impact our ability to bond for the Justice Center project.
 The first one being we can only pledge 25% of our total lit to a bond. And the second being the requirement that lit is re-appropriated annually by the council, which is something that the bond market is not going to feel great about. And it puts a lot of
 question marks over- the ability to bond if relying on a council year after year. To create that so what we've- created here is a- brief letter- outlining the situation for Indiana state legislators. And asking them-
 on lit pledge to a bond or the less popular but also effective solution of a special purpose tax, which would get us to the same place we are now. And I don't know if my colleagues want to add anything, but we're asking the council to sign on to this letter.
 And because what we're asking the legislature to do, essentially, is to act immediately when the new session starts in 2026. And hopefully, they will be able to act quickly enough and make a statutory change effective January 1, 2026. And we can move forward as expeditiously as possible at that moment. There's a lot of ifs in there. There are a lot of ifs in there.
 but we are also asking the board of judges and the sheriff to sign on to this letter as well. We would like to get it issued this week. Mr. Cockrell, did you have anything to add? I guess I am here if they have any questions, but I think we talked about this at the long-term finance committee meeting, so I might be able to answer.
 We're ready for your questions. Oh, I'm sure we got them, because I got a whole list right here. I'll ask, because my understanding, I remember there was an email that was drafted to us and was sent on June 18th, and then we were supposed to discuss it at the June 25th meeting, and we didn't. And so it's back again, and now
 I'm not the smartest tool in the shade, but I think I'm somewhat smart. A couple of questions that I want to ask to kind of start off with is there's no legislative session that's happening right now, correct? Correct. Okay. So the July 11th, which is this upcoming Friday, is the deadline that you all have.
 where is that deadline coming from and why the urgency on that we would like to get this in front of legislators as soon as possible and then field we've asked them to contact us so we can have a discussion about it it's not we're we're looking more broadly than just um minrow county related legislators we're looking at sending this out to other legislators um as well and this is sort of
 like an impromptu summer study committee that we've organized. And so we don't want to wait until the last minute. We want this to be at the forefront of their minds as they prepare for the legislative session. And this allows time for questions
 for meetings if need be. If any legislator contacts our office for a meeting, we would be happy to invite President Crossley or whoever she chooses to attend as well for a team's meeting. But we want to get this information out there as soon as possible. And so this is a self-imposed deadline
 just to get this information out as quickly as possible because this is an urgent, urgent issue for us. Definitely for us too. So I just want to make sure like it definitely is for us. I was just a little concerned about that. But then the other thing is and then I'll kick it back to my colleagues here is I guess
 because I have absolutely zero faith in this legislation currently. We saw what happened with SB1. We continue to see a lot of different things that continue to happen. I guess we don't know if we don't try, but do you feel like
 there is a little slight glimmer of hope that they will listen to what Monroe County is have and um to deal with right now and will potentially change them on because if you got hope then you got more than I do right now yeah uh I'm also more realistic than optimistic as well I I can see that I agree um we are not the only county in the state who's dealing with this issue uh and that's where I hang my hat there are other
 that are dealing with a similar issue and so- we are gathering and we've asked- Angie to help us with this we're going to be gathering up- a list of similarly affected counties. And I'm gonna be reaching out to those
 I don't think any county wants to be in a position we're in. And I but I also do I also don't think we're the only ones and Angie may remember some of the counties. That have a similar issue I don't remember right off and but I know there are others. And I'm sorry a lot I have one more question and then I promise I'll
 We as counsel, the sheriff, the board of judges are asked to sign on. I'm assuming unanimous consent from you three women from the board of commissions, board of commissioners are on board. But in addition to that, has the sheriff and the board of judges been notified of this and what's their thoughts on this? Turn to Angie because they have received a letter. They knew it was coming as well.
 Hi there, yeah. Judge DeKoff received the, you were all on the same email, so you could see that Judge DeKoff received the document and so did Sheriff Marte. That's all I can tell you at this point in time. Judge DeKoff, I guess I should say is overseeing a trial, I think in Lawrence County. So she hadn't had a chance to really look at it yet.
 And would they still have to be on the same deadline as we're being asked for the 11th? Yeah, that's my understanding. Okay, everybody's on the same deadline. Okay. All right. And I'm gonna I know this side is jumping, but I'm going to start over here to my left and see if anybody has any questions. Councilor vital. I have a few questions. Big surprise.
 I'm wondering, first of all, that we ought to be reading the letter to the public because the public hasn't seen this. This is a public meeting, and I feel strongly that they don't have access to it anywhere that I can tell that it ought to be read publicly. So that's one thing. Another thing is I'd like to know if you list two options in the letter, are those the only two options? I like options. I like a lot of options.
 I guess maybe I can answer that question. We have met with our financial advisor and bond council, and those were the two options that they recommended us looking at. So in the grand scheme of things that the legislatures could do, I'm sure there are other things, but these two are the ones they recommended. I think one fits with kind of historically how we've been able to use the LIT in that we've never had a cap on the percentage of LIT that we could
 that we could pledge towards anything. And the other option, which is kind of like we talked about the special purpose for the
 youth services just a few minutes ago. It would be in that part of the code and there are other counties who have gotten these types of special purpose lit in that part of the code. So I think these kind of are more reflective on things that the legislature has done or things that we have been able to do in the past. I mean, clearly the legislature has a great deal more power, but we've kind of focused on those two things for that reason. Also at the behest and the recommendation of our
 financial advisor and bond counsel. If I have another question it would be so you mentioned speaking with the financial and bond counsel so then have you checked in with any of the our area legislators or other legislators to see what the litmus test may be there and what they're thinking about all of this on my behalf. I did have a conversation with
 both Representative Pierce and Senator Yoder. And they were both at that time because it was six weeks ago or so. Have they seen the letter? No, they have not seen the letter. But I had a conversation with them and they understand the gravity of the situation that we're facing and we're interested in trying to find a solution as soon as possible.
 That's all I have right now. I'll reserve the right to jump in later when everybody else is finished. Sounds good, Councillor Wilks. Yes, first, could we put the letter up on the monitor? You don't have a copy of it? I think, yeah, okay. Ms. Turner-Keene does. I think that would be at least helpful. I think it would meet the requirement of the meeting. Let's just put it that way. Yeah, to your point.
 While you're working on that, you indicated that it wasn't going to just our state representatives, but maybe a select group, but the implication I got at least was that it's not all. Can you maybe tell us who you're planning to send this? Well, I know we have a meeting tomorrow with our lobbyists and we're going to be
 asking their advice on some of the best people to reach out to, and I'm sure they will help us with follow-up as well, because that's gonna be more than we can do ourselves. And so has the lobbyist read the letter? Or been given the letter? Not yet. Okay. And so I'm just, I'm also curious about the timing
 because I get that you want to have it in front of people before they're already filled up with other agenda items for the session. But if you know that other counties are facing similar issues, why do this first rather than coordinate with them and bring them into whatever actions might be taken? Doing this does not preclude us from coordinating with them.
 And if in the future we are signing a joint letter or something like that, that's fine too. Doesn't hurt. And it doesn't mean you can't do it. But the problem is if you postpone waiting for the ideal moment, the ideal moment will have passed. And this is about information and communication. And I don't think many
 legislators understand what we're up against, and unless they represent a county that is similarly situated. So we have a timeline for us because we don't want to dither. We want to get information to the legislators as soon as possible.
 And we can send more information. We can hold meetings. We can hold joint meetings with other counties and groups of legislators. There's a lot of options out there. But to withhold information and communication on the hope that there's going to be an ideal moment in the future doesn't make sense. Communicating as soon as you can make sense. And that's what we're doing. Yeah, I understand that.
 building coalitions also makes sense, too. And that's sort of the approach I would probably prefer at this point. My other question was more about the special purpose tax option. And would that be a separate tax item that then is dedicated and only for it doesn't mix in with our other
 special purpose tax monies. Does it? Or would it? It shouldn't, right? I mean, ideally, but that's why I'm asking. The request is for them to, and there's another county that's referenced in there where they have set the rate and how it was to be done. I guess the intent is for that to be in a different section than the special purpose that we currently have for use services. So that would be the intent.
 Okay, thank you. I actually have a list of questions myself and some maybe comments. Yes, Commissioner. Can I add on to that coordination point as well? I actually was talking with Senator Yoder recently at the fair last week. I believe it was at the fair and we mentioned the coordination aspect and
 there might be a tricky part to that that we might have to work through. There might be a public relations part that might be thorny because some counties might not want to admit yet that they might have problems funding public works projects. And so they might be kind of threading the needle on that point. And so that might be
 why it might be hard to reach out to counties at this point and so for example if we reach out to statewide organizations and say do you know of counties who have this problem they probably have not heard from these counties yet because counties might be wondering how to broach that topic without alarming the public that certain things that the public expects to
 be done might not get done on the schedule that the public expects. And so that might be tricky for some counties. So thank you. Just a slight point on that issue. I had a few questions, many of which have been covered by folks, but I want to try to fill in some some details here. And if you all need to get back
 on some of this or or even just taken into consideration. You're welcome to I wonder if anyone's heard comments from two very influential legislators and all this and that's number one the house ways means chair jeff thompson who. Along with senator travis holdman the finance chair were the architects for us as a one have we heard any comments on them along the lines of.
 to do that, but we didn't realize we did that or anything. Is anyone picking up anything in that regard? Because that that is that answer is worth about $3 million in a lot of knowledge. And I have not spoken directly with Mr Thompson, but our financial advisor, Greg Garrett, has.
 in part for us and in part for other of his clients. He met with Mr. Thompson and his impression is that the meeting went well and that Mr. Thompson understood what the issues were. I don't want to say anything more than that because I wasn't at the meeting and I think that's a better question for Greg to answer. But the report back is that he has discussed our situation with them as well as some others and that he got some positive feedback.
 Thank you very much. One additional question I had was whether or not the folks that we've kind of hired to help us with these tremendous level of policy changes at the state level. That's kind of the way I can probably put that, but we're trying to ask for something here, so I'll be kind. I was curious about what their advice would be. I'd be curious once you have that, if that could be shared. And again, you can get back to us on that.
 Additionally, I have a suggestion I will throw out, and it doesn't speak on behalf of anyone on this council but myself, but we have a delegation to the Indiana General Assembly, which is a lot of people, a lot of Democrats, a lot of Republicans. There's more Republicans than Democrats last time I counted. My suggestion is every time I meet one of them individually or in part, really on both sides of the aisle, they always say, what can we do to help? Blah, blah, blah. And then I read legislative updates
 Those bills are not always helping. And again, I'm trying to put this kindly. I would suggest commissioners and I would suggest counselors that if we do get to a point whether this letter goes doesn't go or we get down the road, could we invite our legislative delegation to come sit in this big old room that we have?
 and maybe talk about this issue particularly, and maybe we need to keep coming back in there. Because I feel that sometimes when you're out of sight, out of mind, sometimes these things kind of fester and happen. We were tasked with the constitutional requirement here to make that jail right. And now that's been stopped. And we've been criticized a lot for not moving quick enough. Now, incidentally, they've tripped us and knocked us off the trike. So I might suggest that we have that.
 And even if it's informational, I know sometimes it can get adversarial. I've heard legislators, not necessarily ones representing us, but they'll talk about this community as if sometimes it's like walking on Mars. And I said, well, I go there. We've got a cat, very normal people, good people. I see you at our games, but sometimes you talk about us like we're Martians. Maybe we could have an informational session about what we're trying to do with this project, other projects, and it will be no harm
 that we need you to walk out of here and maybe help us fix that. So that might be a suggestion I would have, too, on this. And again, I'd cross my fingers on some of it. All right. I'm going to go down the line. Councilor Iverson. Thank you, Madam President. You know, this this letter, I think when I think about this letter and I think about requests to public officials, particularly in this state, I think about the four Rs.
 It's got to be the right person at the right time in the right place with the right request. I personally, based upon what I've heard here, don't feel like the right people are making the right request. And I include myself in that category. I don't feel like I'm going to get a lot of traction in making a request to the Indiana legislature.
 The organization that I do think is going to make a lot of traction, particularly given the fact that you've identified other counties is AIC. And my question to you is, has David Boteroff read this letter? There hasn't been sent a letter yet.
 to get rolling on it and send it to him and among others there's a long list of people I understand there's a long list that haven't seen this but I think that if we send a letter and it hasn't been approved by the council and it's got our signatures on it no one else is we say well we were hoping to get some more signatures that sounds kind of. Here you but at the same time if this is a multi county problem it is probably not the jurisprudence of the Monroe county government entities. To be going to the legislature on this because
 quite frankly, we saw that David Boterov and Ryan Hoff both were fairly instrumental in bringing counties interests to the legislature during the debate of this body. So I would be really interested in what they have to say on this topic. I also do think that we need to have public comment
 on this letter. I'm really glad that it was portrayed up on the screen. I really want to hear what my constituents have to say about this. And I want them to be as informed as possible. I'm really glad that this came out of the long-term finance meeting. I'm really glad that we are continuing to having these conversations. The public does need to be involved in these topics. And the final thing that I'll say is I get really nervous when my name is on a long list of folks that need to sign
 in order for something to go forward and you know I just I don't know you know there's a lot of people as signatories list and that just makes me feel nervous so I think that's a good way to to leave it this letter makes me feel a little uneasy for the four Rs
 Councilor Henry. Thank you, Madam President. I'll be brief because I know there's probably some other folks who want to chat. It's my view that, frankly, the letter's just not ready for prime time. And the reason for that is joint authorship. I think I've heard my colleagues reflect on the idea that there are other stakeholders in this conversation. In fact, it's a fiscal question. So one would wonder if the letterhead should have the county council's letterhead on it with the signatories joining us on the question of fiscal questions for the county. But I want to maybe focus on
 A key part of this for me, which is. The ifs and there's a statement in the letter that discusses that we cannot complete the project with less than 25% lit it's really the complete the project, as is with the current.
 With the understanding of the funding streams we thought we had prior to SB 1, prior to the election, prior to the new governor coming in. And so I guess my question is like, where are we on the contingency that we have to operate within the current law that caps us where it is if we don't get our ifs? Has the commissioners and the vendor started to look at what the $180 million facility looks like instead of the $220 million facility at this point?
 We've discussed it, and we're not anywhere near having a conclusion to that. But I mean, we've had that conversation. I've had that conversation with both the architect and the construction manager. Those were public meetings or private meetings? It would not have been a public meeting. Do we anticipate a public meeting about that at some point?
 I think the next public meeting that we expect is the one where they come back and present their schematic design to both the council and commissioners and we're kind of working with that. I mean, I think everybody's aware that the first budget than any budget could. Yeah, my line of inquiry here is based on the idea that we're operating under an assumption that we're going to get
 where we were in terms of the estimates and get the adjustment hopefully if the state house agrees. But it sounds like we're preparing for delay according to recent media reporting. Or the alternative would be planning within the means that we have. I mean, is the suggestion from the authors of the letter that we're just accepting delay until we get the if? I'm just trying to understand it. The if being the increase in the AV. I guess you want me to answer?
 I guess my feeling is that we are proceeding as if we are going to be successful, but we are planning for if we're not right and I don't know. Clearly our planning for if we're going to be successful started last year and our planning for for the the other is not is not at the same maturity level as that.
 initial planning so yeah it's on our minds and we're trying to figure it out but we're trying to figure it out going up kind of down two parallel paths of if we're successful this is the route we're going to go and if we're not this is the route we're going to go and this path is much further along than this path so.
 I appreciate that. Madam President, thank you. I'll just wrap by saying that I appreciate Councilor Deckard's point of view about getting the bipartisan viewpoint of our delegation. The problem is finding them in the county. Dave Hall usually is eating something somewhere. And I happened to catch him at the fair where I talked with him and, hey, jokes are fun, Marty, and talked with Bob Heaton as well at the fair about where we are as a predicament. The sentiment I got was, and I'll just share anecdotally,
 The letter may arrive early, but they're not going to look at it much until January anyway. And so if there is an opportunity to raise the awareness of the full delegation that it's incoming, I appreciate that idea. But otherwise, I don't want to speak for them, but it sounds like this might hit their mailbox and get lost for six months. But I appreciate that. Thank you, Madam President. Thank you.
 and fresh from the fair is counselor hawk. Yes we all attended the fair and I yes I had a corn dog it's very good but I'll say yes I did talk with some of the state legislators there and it was always a good opportunity to speak to people from both sides of the aisle I don't see the need for the rush to send to the state something
 that we really don't even know what we're talking about right now because we haven't presented this to the public we're talking one of the options was we're going to stick a whole brand new tax on you because remember if it's a special purpose tax it's going to be in addition to the tax that is being already approved that 1.2 for operations big you see what I'm saying so
 that and I think that was supposed to raise like 50 some million dollars. Boy, I'm just going from there. But the special purpose would be a whole brand new tax on top of that and that was never discussed with the public. What had been discussed with the public so far was that there was enough revenue coming in between the economic development tax and the jail tax that we could very closely
 be able to make the dollars amount and it would not be a new tax. Now a lot's happened since then. State legislation changed since then and I had mentioned that I would like to see a financial accounting as to whether or not it is possible for us to not just pay for our obligations that we're paying for right now with the income tax, with the 1.2, but also cover this tax for the
 jail i haven't seen that maybe you all have discussed that but i i don't i want to know what we're doing before we ask the state to ask ask help us and then we have to say oh well we changed our mind we really can't even make it work that way uh and nor would i ever vote to say let's go ahead and send information out to the state
 considering a special purpose tax which is a huge brand new tax on locals and we haven't even told the locals we were considering it. So I think this is a bridge too far for me to cross right now. I mean I wanna see some financials and not just a half hour meeting with our long range planning people
 And I appreciate all that we're asked to do, but that is too much. We were given a lot of information at that last meeting, and it was just sort of try to come up with the right questions. Not sure we had the right questions. But we're a long way away from asking the state to help us one direction or the other, because I don't think that we know ourselves. We haven't told the public yet.
 what their options are for them to come and say do it or don't do it. So in addition to which, I haven't heard any reduction in the square foot of the proposed building because we're not going to have as many courts. So one would think we'd save some money there, but there's just, we've got a long way to go. And I'm not prepared to say that I would put a brand new tax on taxpayers.
 that's not what we said at all from the get go. Thank you. May I respond? Sure. Okay. So I had a brief chat with my colleagues while we're hearing from everyone. So we do invite the council. I have some more questions. Are you ready to respond to all the questions or do you want to just do it? If I might. Okay. This might stop because we're going to move forward with a letter.
 We are going to invite sheriff and courts to sign on. We would encourage you to put something together. Yes, it should be coming out of the council. This would be ideal. We encourage you to do that.
 you want to do it, however you want to coordinate, whoever you want to coordinate with. We wanted to do this with you all, and we're still on board, but we are great. If you want to send your own letter in your own time in December or in August or next week, great. Please do.
 I don't know if there's anything else to add on that, yeah. So before I circle back to Councilor Feidler, since we're talking about that, Ms. Turner-King, can you put up the letter again just for reference, please? Because what I'm hearing from my colleagues up here is that they don't feel comfortable in doing that.
 Do I think that this particular letter has some meat and potatoes? Yes. Does it have enough for me? I don't know. I definitely agree to Councilor Henry's point. I do think that that should be with the fiscal body that this is coming from. And here is the other aspect that I will say to that. What grinds my gears and what frustrates the piss out of me
 and excuse me for saying that, is the fact that we continue to keep doing these things where I almost kind of feel like council gets this little like, we're gonna give you this deadline, here you go, go for it. And there it is. Because back in June, when we got this letter first sent to us, I don't recall and I'll look at here and see if anybody got it.
 I don't think we got a deadline in that letter, am I right? Okay, so now we get a deadline and now it's a must do, must do, must do. It's fine if you do, it's fine if you don't. I just, in the spirit of collaboration, I know we use that and I guess I definitely use that a lot. I really wish that things would not continue to come to council for a rush moment and a rush job and for us to do what we need to do so that we can
 go along and get along. I really wish that we would be respected enough in our right to be able to collaborate, because what I hear from everybody up here, at least majority, I'm not gonna speak for everybody, but I guess the general consensus, if I could sum it up, is that I don't think it would be a problem. Oh, I was waiting. For you all to,
 I think we need to collaborate with us, just like we were doing for SB1, when there was a president to president conversation of, let's do SB1, and then all of a sudden we see commissioners do their own letter for SB1, which is fine. Not a big deal. But if we are trying to do something together with our council colleagues,
 And we're trying to have some meat and potatoes to try to figure out what we need to do to move forward to have some teeth. Since they've kind of jacked up what we can do right now that I guess I would like for us to have a serious conversation and not adjust. Here's his letter. You got until Friday. Hope you can sign on to it. I wouldn't respect y'all enough not to do that to you. And I would ask that you respect us enough not to do the same to us. That's one. Secondly,
 I guess my other question to you right now is, if any of us were thinking that we would be okay with this letter, and if somebody wanted to say, I can agree, and I can get on board with it, and I can sign on to it, and if it completes the four R's, as Council Member Iverson said, if we wanted to change up something in this letter on the spot right now to make this feasible for us, would you be opposed to that?
 we're here to talk through the contents of the letter. We wanted to do this in June, and that would have been even better, and we didn't. And that's why we're here. So if there are amendments, changes, concerns, talk through them. Let's talk through them. So then I'll kick it back to Councilor Feidl because I know she was about to interject there. So go ahead. Yes, I'm good at interjecting.
 Thank you. So first of all, there was mention of lobbyists. I'd like to know who they are. Who are these lobbies? Can you tell us who they are that you've heard from? It's the TAM group that we hired. OK, thank you. And then I just wanted to mention that I went to the Indiana State County Council Conference, County Council Association Conference in June.
 And Representative Thompson was there publicly stating that he's willing to listen to special circumstances. So I'd be very interested to contact him and state what it is we're having issues with, and then maybe send a letter after that. I mean, to me, there's a door open there at the state level, and he's on the House of Ways as I remember. So that's a nice place to start to get some good feedback.
 then I'll just say personally that I've been a part of joint letter writing with a multitude of organizations and entities for several decades. And always before, we've managed to meet and draft a joint letter and then have it ready for prime time. And I don't see that happening here. And for me, it's very frustrating and unfamiliar territory. I don't know how you do that.
 and expect buy-in. I've always been taught to get the buy-in. I don't feel like there's buy-in. So personally, I'm lacking the buy-in. I'll just say that. Yes, we're very blessed to have state representatives on the House ways and means and the appropriate thing would be for us to talk with them before we
 Go over their head and talk to representing Thompson. I'm just saying I there's
 a process to this. Not that you couldn't speak with Representative Thompson any time you wish to, if you could get through to him. He's been very helpful to us in the past, having to do with our special purpose tax, which we almost lost because there was a misunderstanding at state level. So in working with him, I went up and spoke to the House Ways and Means and
 we were successful in getting that fixed. But, you know, state representative Peggy Mayfield is on House Ways and Means, state representative Bob Heaton is on House Ways and Means. And so those are two folks who will listen to us and believe me, they know this is going on. This is not a secret. And to send a letter off that doesn't have the full support of this council
 for the letter would be, I think, a big mistake, because we're the ones that have to vote on it, as I've said before. Whatever we do with that income tax, it will be, it will be what this council's willing to do, to put in place a tax on the people. So I think that we're in too big of a hurry to get something done, and to me it seems like we're trying, not we,
 Some are in a hurry to get it done before the public might find out we're trying to do it. Because this is a huge, huge additional tax if we would go with a special purpose. And so we need to take a hard look at it. And they're not going to make a decision. They're trying to enjoy their summer, folks. And they're going to have summer committees. And yes, you know, I'm on the...
 indiana county council association group and we'll be meeting and talking about this but believe me they'd already said that they they knew we're going to have to do some some real thought changes thoughtful changes
 for major projects like courthouses or jails. And I think the state would really like for us to build a jail. So I don't think they're gonna say no to everything, but they're gonna come up with their suggestions as well. So I respectfully say that I would not sign off on this letter as it is now.
 Council Henry. Thank you. And I just I don't want to belabor it as I think we've covered a lot of ground here. I'm not opposed to a letter. I mean, I think we need to send something. I think we have the month of July that we will hopefully hear the schematic meeting and get the numbers in front of the public about what we're really looking at, which is important for transparency. And it would also give an opportunity for counsel legal counsel staff to inform the
 pros of the letter if we could sign on to it jointly and get that co-equal representation of the fiscal voice with the will of the commissioners on that. So I mean, I'm just not feeling the rush, but I appreciate that we're all trying to go for the same ends here, or at least most of us seem to be. That's my concluding thought on that. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to look over to my left here to see if anybody has any other final questions or comments. No.
 I guess I heard Mr. Cockrell say that we're on like two parallel points here and one seems to be going faster than the other. I guess for me in my head and those parallel points and lanes here, I really would like for us for that other one to catch up because I guess my question to you all would be, since you're thinking about this,
 have you thought about if option A, which is this on the table, if it doesn't go through? And what's the end game there? That is a question that is addressed a bit in the letter in terms of building a jail facility without
 the justice side yet, and then completing the project later. And that adds significant security risks and costs to the final project. And that's the other option. We don't have an option not to address the jail. We just don't have that option. And I guess I would point out that
 track is going to get a lot easier in August when we get the estimates for our income tax for next year. Right now, we're dealing with this year's estimates. Knowing next year's estimates gets us a much firmer foot in the sand, here's what you got number, right? I mean, that's one of the things that will help that second process along quite a bit. So, I mean, that's part of the reason
 The other reason is that we've been working on the other one for about, I don't know, eight years longer, something like that. But that's really, I mean, we haven't really sped that up because we know that number's coming and it's coming in a month. And that number will help define what we have in terms of budget. If nothing else changes and we can only do 25%, then we'll know what our
 100% is, we'll know what the 25 and then we give it to the financial advisor and they tell us, here's what you can get out of that. And that'll be how we would start kind of massaging what we can do with that. And that's all we got. Commissioner Thomas, you were leaning in as if you were about to say something. Okay. I guess my final comment,
 would be is that I do think that we need to think of a plan B. And maybe that plan B is also trying to look within our means of what the scope of this project. We got to do what we got to do because the state has given us the ultimate task of all the stuff that is in front of us right now. So we have to do what we have to do. The other aspect to this is
 I'm sorry, I was trying to look through all of my questions to see. And I appreciate the discussion and the concerns that the council has presented. I hope it's very beneficial for you. I hope that you take to heart everything that we're saying and listen and understand that we are coming from this with the fiscal body mindset of this is what we got to do.
 I also don't want this to, if we don't sign on to something like this, that it would delay because I think we've been delayed since 2009 and it's 2025, at least halfway through 2025. I'm sorry. I don't see how it would delay anything.
 we're just trying to communicate with legislators. That's all we're trying to do. And I didn't say that you were, but I'm just saying for anybody that would have any kind of doubt when the door was open, because reading that article in the Herald Times was very interesting the other day. But nonetheless, I think that we should continue with that parallel point, but we should have both of them catch up at the same time, because I do think you have to have an option B in the
 in the state of confusion that the state has given us right now. And I also look forward to having that public meeting where we can discuss this as well. But that's all I have to say about that. I'm gonna go, if I haven't already, I'll script some more today. And I think that because this, what we've been hearing
 from council is the public input, public input, public input. So I'm just going to, and we don't have much public here in NetU Hill Room and on Teams. But I wanted to suggest, if there is anybody in the public that has a comment on this particular item, to raise your hand via Teams. You would have up to three minutes. And then if you had a comment here in the NetU Hill Room,
 You know, come to the lectern here, but I just wanted to give somebody an opportunity because again, public comment might say something that we all might learn from this, so I just wanted to open that up and it looks like we already have somebody with their hands raised on teams. So I ask that you introduce yourself, come off mute and you'll have up to three minutes to make your comment. Yeah, thank you President Crossley. This is Eric Spoonmore.
 President of the Greater Bloom to Chamber of Commerce, really appreciate the privilege to have public comment and the discussion that you all have had this evening. You know, I regret that this has really kind of been a surprise to me. I consider myself a pretty informed person on local government, county government,
 and I think it's important that we get this letter out to the public. I was not able to read and I don't want you to have to recite it there on in the meeting tonight but you know I will follow up with the council office to see if I can get a copy of it tomorrow so that I can distribute it to my membership. We represent close to 900
 businesses here locally in the community. And I think would be very interesting because there's a lot of income tax implications that it appears are a part of this letter that you're being asked to sign off on. So I think it's good to get the public feedback on it, get input. I think also, as Ms. Fiddle mentioned earlier, options are great. It would be nice to see how this can be scaled back
 if it's possible to scale it back before we start asking employers and workers to do more with local income taxes that they're paying. And I think, you know, at a very high level, too, it kind of underscores how important it is that we are investing in housing, that we are investing in job creation, that we are doing everything we can right now as a county
 to lean into economic development because of the importance of local income taxes that will be funding these types of projects and funding how county government will operate well into the future. So maybe have a plan before we start asking for more income taxes, how are we going to increase that income tax base here in Monroe County?
 I think that would be a good discussion that the public and the business community would like to participate in as well, too. So again, appreciate the privilege of being able to have a public comment tonight, and thanks for the very constructive conversation. Thank you. Thank you. All right. For anybody else that wanted to make a public comment on this, last call for you to come to the lectern here in the Night View Hill Room or raise your hand via Teams.
 Seeing none, I guess you had a simple ask for us today, which is to sign up on the letter. I looked to Ms. Turner King to see because is this something that we need to take a vote on or how would we need to proceed with this? Because we didn't have a motion.
 I mean, the ask is, will you sign on the letter? I think the way to resolve it is to vote on that. So I would recommend a vote. Point of information, Madam President. Yes, go ahead. So is it the intent that if we take the vote and it fails, that the commissioners are intending to send the letter on Friday anyway? Or if we take the vote and it fails, do we have an opportunity to draft this over the course of July together? I just would like to understand what a vote signifies. I just, well.
 On behalf of the board, I do want to thank everyone for their time today. I don't know the answer to that question. That would be up to my colleagues and I to talk through. We haven't talked through that. We just got to the point where we really do hope a letter goes out. And that's where we're at. And we encourage you to do it. Thank you. Your colleagues are here. So I'm looking to all three of you. And I know Commissioner Thomas, you've spoken a lot in detail today.
 Commissioner Jones, Commissioner Madeira, do you all have any way in that you would like to provide to us? Commissioner Jones doesn't really sound like it would do much good. To clarify to do much good for what I do that you have any interest in signing on to this? I don't think our
 that from folks. I think to clarify and again y'all jump in if you'd like. I think the intent is to have public input as counselor Henry just mentioned and to also potentially like if we all vote and say that I was just waiting. So I just again there's there's a whole respect there. So
 As I mentioned, the idea of us not signing on to it, maybe a couple of people feel like this is not their time to sign on to it. But for those who think that this could also be in spirit,
 of collaboration and might not think that this is ready because one, we haven't had public consumption of it. Two, we haven't heard any word from the board of judges to say yes on this or the sheriff to say yes on this. I think there's an opportunity. So I really would caution you not to dismiss us per se in that regard. But again, opening that up to council. Excuse me. I would kind of like to clarify what I was saying.
 I was simply talking about our discussion tonight. I don't know where we might go in the future, but it does not sound like we're going to get anywhere tonight.
 And that is all that I was saying. And I would like to clarify and jump in and say, I think we can get somewhere tonight. I caution you to listen to what we are saying. And again, would like to open this up to colleagues. And I'm not going to go on the back and forth, because there's other meetings that we can do. And that's not the meeting or the timeline for this. But to keep this going, I just want to see, is there a taste or an appetite
 for how to proceed with this. Councilor Decker, and then I'll go to Councilor Wilks, and then I'll come back to you. I do not believe the council should vote on this this evening. Reading the room, I don't think that would be a good vote for any potential goal of an outcome of a letter, at least for the council's end. I do not think that
 having our signatures on there without the further issues that are addressed would be fruitful for any of those goals. So it would be my, and I wouldn't want a vote tonight to cloudy any potential future goals that counselors have. And I think that more work is needed to be done. And so my recommendation would be at least for our port, it doesn't mean that others can't go on, but for our portion,
 our name signatures don't go on there and that doesn't preclude what we would do in the future differently or in harmony with this. It's probably not a good idea to have a vote on this right now, but to Councilor Henry's point, I think it's very, his question did not get answered, which is,
 you know if if we say if we voted and we voted it down like said okay we don't want to sign it as a body tonight could we work with you over the next month prior to you sending it out that's and that's what I know I know counselor costly was trying to ask that question and I'm not going to speak for my colleagues because we have not discussed that and so I left it to my colleagues to address and and Commissioner Madera has not answered that yet
 Okay, well, would you like to? Sure, we have not addressed it as a body, but I think none of us have ruled that out. And so I think that there is a willingness at this table, none of us have said no, there's a willingness at this table, there's a willingness at this bench, and I'm not hearing no. And when there's not a no, there's a yes.
 I was just trying to clarify, because to Commissioner Jones's point, it almost made it sound like we were just a no from everywhere. And I just really didn't like that. So I don't like words to be put in my mouth, and I don't want words to be input in others. So I'm going to go to Councilor Erickson. Yes, Madam President. In the agenda that we adopted earlier today, we voted to include this as a presentation and a discussion. No motion was read, so I think we can simply move on to our next item of
 item eight F. Okay which again if. Since it wasn't anybody can make a motion at any given time that madam president you are correct so again I'm looking to everybody to see if there is. A motion on the floor. To make action on this letter.
 that before we would move forward, we would get a fiscal analysis as to whether or not it would even work if we tried to put it within our allowed amount that we have in 2028. Not now, but 2028, they've told us what the percentages would be allowed if we went it up that high. We don't know what that
 fiscal analysis is. How could we move forward? This is too big of a, so I'm hoping we would get that, at least that done before we would do anything with a letter. So we don't want to go to the state and say, oh, please help us do this. And then we say, oh, whoopsie, we can't do that. Right. So since there is no motion, the one thing that I really
 Again, sorry, I keep coming back to this because and then we will move on our promise because I know that we have Miss Kelly that has joined us is there is beauty and disagreement and there is things that we can hear from each other that we can learn from and that we can grow from because obviously this is a project that has been on the heart to mind for a very long time and we are still under a lawsuit so we are trying
 I know you all as board of commissioners are trying, I know council, we are trying, but what I would like to do to say is I really hope that folks did not hear anything that would get you so in a tizzy that you would just abruptly just walk out of here and leave.
 I know we can say things to colleagues that might irritate us, that might make us want to walk out of a meeting. I've heard plenty of things in my lifetime on the council, which is just a mere four short years, and all of the acronym meetings that we've been into. But I just want us to make sure, again, as I said at the beginning of this discussion, that we
 that we deserve. So with that, thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks. And now we will go back to item F, which is from the
 Council, I move to approve the Health Department's request and fund 1159-0000 Health Fund. The creation of new account lines is outlined on the agenda and to simultaneously approve additional appropriations in those account lines in the amount of $422,761 in the personnel category. Second.
 All right, we got a motion and a second. Ms. Kelly has joined us via Teams. Yes, good evening, Council. So this request is to move 15 positions from Fund 1161. So Fund 1161 is our state funding that we received for Health First Indiana. So the request is to move these positions to 1159, our local county funding,
 due to legislative changes that have recently occurred, that we can no longer use Health First Indiana funds for tobacco prevention and cessation, and that funds may only be used for Indiana residents who are citizens of the United States.
 Thank you. And looking to my colleagues to the right here and see if anybody has any questions or comments. Councilor Henry. Thank you. And thank you, Miss Kelly for bringing us to the council. I don't have questions for you, but just a comment about how we got here and kind of the real world impacts of state legislation. So what we're looking at is a remarkable situation where
 We've moved from a governor like Mitch Daniels who promoted things like tobacco cessation in Indiana to a place now where we're being asked to absorb that at a county level as if.
 the conditions with people getting addicted to nicotine have changed. I appreciate the effort to bring this home because the issue is still there. Secondly, the fact that what we're looking at is not something we wanted to do locally, but we have to split the difference in trying to identify who gets local services based on citizenship. Anyone who's studied Bio 101 knows that bacteria do not care about your status. They infect people regardless of their presence in the county or not. This is a lot of paperwork.
 for a county to take on. I know we're a good size county to take that on. I cannot imagine what your peer counties are dealing with in the state of Indiana to try to address the need to split these accounts in a way that we can account for what Hoosiers are getting benefits here versus just trying to take care of folks that are passing through our community. So I just wanted to honor the work you've put into this one, because it's not easy and it's not something that we asked for. But thank you, Madam President.
 Councilor Iverson. Thank you. Ms. Kelly, I want to thank you for bringing this forward. I know you and Dr. Ryder Band have made yourselves available to this council, particularly your liaisons, to our seemingly endless questions. So we're really thankful that we've gotten to this point through careful dialogue. And we wish that we weren't in this situation, of course, as Council Member Henry elucidated.
 But we are thankful that we're able to work closely with you. All right. Looking over here to my left. Do we exhaust everything from previous conversation? Well, I just wanted to reiterate from someone who hasn't been involved in the discussions as the liaisons might have that
 I really appreciate this item coming forward and appreciate your work on it. It's important and I won't belabor the point, but thank you. And going back to counselor. Just a matter of curiosity. Because I have not looked at what what
 the result would be. But it looks like what we're doing is we're moving a lot of the positions that might have been funded with the grant dollars and moving them over into what is local property tax dollars. And as we have said to many different departments and with one another, that if our grant dollars
 go away or reduced, then we cannot keep the same number of personnel, or at least it's possible that you might have to reduce personnel. And even at the time that they were growing personnel to be covered with these grant dollars, the Health Department was reminded of that. And so I have serious reservations about this because
 we know that our grant dollars are going to be reduced from where they were what two years ago so it would seem to me that that might one would certainly think it might change the number of employees that they thought they were going to be able to have to provide services that that grant dollar is no longer going to be in place and so I have serious questions about how this is going to end up financially and how much
 more additional expenses that's going to put on the part that is inside what I call the frozen levy. So I haven't, I don't know the answer to that and so for that reason I won't be supporting this. Maybe everyone has looked at that or maybe that's already been considered but I haven't heard the answer to that.
 I would defer both to Ms. Kelly and also the auditor to explain why we're splitting so many of those, or why we're moving things the way we are, because it's not all grant contingent. There's actually a code reason. Ms. Kelly, do you want to try to take a shot at it, or do you want the auditor to start with it? Well, I think I can at least talk to some of the positions. So we do have some positions that are vacant that
 I have not sought to refill just again because knowing that we had all of these changes and that reduced funding. So I would just like to say that I'm aware of that and do take that into consideration. These changes to move these positions, it's really just
 The request is to ensure that we are able to serve all populations in need and that we are not running into situations where there is an individual in need, but we cannot provide those services because of these legislative changes. So we're looking at kind of flip-flopping some of our funding around. I definitely don't want to be here tonight making this request, but I have to, I feel from a moral
 it's really kind of necessary to just to make sure that we can take care of our community. Understand. Does have anything to add to that? Yeah, I really don't have much to add. Miss Kelly explained that very well. Just, you know, legislative changes are have impacted the way.
 miss Kelly can can budget essentially if we don't want to change the way we're providing services. So just moving expenses, payroll expenses into this other fund, and hopefully she can move other appropriate expenses into the HFI funds to kind of balance things out. Thank you. Councillor Hawk. The other thing I'm concerned about and just
 over in general concerns while I was looking at believe me I didn't vote on this legislation folks so uh but what I'm seeing is that if the other counties follow the direction from the state says this is how the money can be used and if the other counties say we're not going to put our grant dollars in jeopardy by not following what they're saying to the letter then
 will not, some of, as we've seen in other instances, perhaps some of that population moving here to receive assistance and some fund. I don't know, those are just some questions I've had that, because clearly from our packet, it makes it clear we want to work around, do a work around what the state has said.
 As I said to someone earlier today, it's like if I tell you here's X number of dollars and I want you to go buy a Chevy and they go buy a Ford instead, I might think that somebody didn't honor what I gave them the dollar for. I'm not saying they're right in what they have done. I'm just saying I hope we're not putting dollars also in jeopardy. I don't know what the answer is. I'm sorry that you folks have to
 vote for it uh i expect you will i don't have the answers and so i won't thank you all right uh we will move on to public comment if you have a public comment on this item come forward to the lectern here in the night you know room or raise your hand via teams and seeing none may we please have a roll call vote
 Councilor Fiddle. Yes. Councilor Iverson. Yes. Councilor Henry. Yes. Councilor Hawk. No. Councilor Decker. Yes. Councilor Wilts. Yes. Councilor Crossley. Yes. Motion passes six to one. Next up is item G.
 Council I move to approve the health department's request to amend the salary ordinance and fund one one five nine dash zero zero zero zero health fund to add positions as outlined on the agenda and in fund one one six one dash zero zero zero zero local public health services to remove positions as outlined on this evening's agenda second all right we got a motion in a second anything else to add to this miss Kelly
 Uh, no, I don't think so. I think this is just housekeeping. All right. Any questions to the right here? Seeing none. Any questions over here? Seeing none. Um, if you have public comment on this item, you raise your hand via Teams, or you can come to the lectern here in the NetU Hill room. And seeing none, may we please have a roll call vote?
 Councilor Henry. Yes. Councilor Fiddle. Yes. Councilor Iverson. Yes. Councilor Crossley. Yes. Councilor Hogg. No. Councilor Decker. Yes. Councilor Wilts. Yes. Motion passes six to one. This is a salary ordinance amendment. It will have to come back for a second vote.
 So for clarity, for everyone's sake, I guess, that means that the first action item created the account lines and appropriated them, but because the salary amendment didn't pass unanimously, they can't be expended. Until the salary amendment is approved. It can still spin out of where it was before. Right, it's still appropriated in the original accounts or lines.
 It's still appropriated in the original count lines, which require compliance with state code. We're just delaying the ability to provide equitable services to people, my wording, not theirs, by two weeks. Correct. Yeah. Okay. Councilor Decker. And for anyone in the public watching, Ms. Turner-King, just a point of information.
 simple majority at that time will suffice, right? Correct. Okay, thank you. Because it has to come twice, right? Yes, thank you. Stay tuned for another couple of weeks, and I'm sorry that was the way that it is, Ms. Kelly. But last but not least, we have item number H.
 Council I move to approve the health department's request in fund one one six one dash zero zero zero zero Local public health services to deappropriate account lines as outlined on tonight's agenda for a total deappropriation of four hundred twenty two thousand seven hundred sixty one dollars in the personnel category Miss Kelly and
 before we go to Miss Kelly, Miss Turner King. I think I had a point of information here, but you might clear my suggestion would be to table this item because if you do appropriate these lines, there won't be funding for those positions. Council member present man. Yes, go ahead. Thank you.
 Council, I amend my motion to table the health department's request and fund 1161-000 local public health services to do appropriate the account lines that I mentioned previously. But we need to put a date to that correct. I move to table this item to our next meeting which is the 22nd of July. Thank you. Further consent. All right.
 And all those in favor of table in this item to our next meeting, which is July 22nd, signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. And again, this is being done because of us not having unanimous consent. And since that has to happen, well, in order for it to go the first go round, and since it didn't, now it has to come back for a majority vote on the 22nd. So, okay.
 Ms. Kelly, are you good with, I mean, no, considering that services are delayed for another couple of weeks. Do you have anything to add to this before you leave? I don't think so. I appreciate the support and the understanding of the situation that we're trying to navigate. And we are certainly not trying to work around the system. We're just trying to do the work that we need to do
 to the best of our ability. All right. Thank you so much, Ms. Kelly. Have a good night. All right. Now that we went through presentation discussions and we don't have any more of those. Thank goodness for that. And we also are, we don't have any other business for County Council.
 to discuss for tonight. We are now to the final act, which is the counselor liaisons and comments. And so before everybody leaves for the evening, I would like to give people an opportunity. I'm gonna look here at Counselor Hawk before she leaves the building like Elvis. What would you like to add? Just hopefully everyone is having a great
 celebration of our great nation's birthday and the fourth of July and I have been very fortunate to talk to some of the different departments and bits and pieces and happy to have met with several people and look forward to finalization of
 numbers for our budget. I really am trying to question why we're going to have a long-range planning meeting in advance of getting all the budgets turned in. I think it's a waste of money to get Gregg Garretos here when we don't have our information but if that's what the will of the council then it is. Well just as a
 point of clarification there. It's not the Willow Council. It's for the Long-Term Finance Committee, which is composed of yourself, Councilor Beidel, and me. And I think what we are trying to do is we're trying to figure out a date. So we haven't... Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So we're trying to figure that out. So, yeah, just to clarify, we haven't moved on yet, but I agree. All right. Thank you, Councilor Iverson.
 Thank you, Madam President. I have three things to share today. The first of which is that the expansion of the Monroe County and Bloomington Convention Center is going on. I would certainly encourage all of you to come on downtown, enjoy a meal down here, catch a show, and look at what's happening with our expanded Convention Center. When you are down here, do slow down. Workers are doing a lot of work
 near the street so just be wary of that but great things are coming and we've already heard from our visitors bureau that folks are reserving that expanded space so we're really excited about what's coming to Bloomington and hope you check it out as well. The second thing
 is that the Texas floods are on my mind this evening, and I'm sure that you saw this as well, particularly for those of you who, like me, have young children that are going off to summer camps right now.
 the flooding that took away these precious, precious lives is a tragedy. And we here in Monroe County want to make sure that we are protecting the lives of all of those from things, including flooding. I would encourage, strongly encourage all of you living here to sign up for the Monroe County alert system. Once you've done that, you can log in and you can check certain boxes
 about which alerts you want to receive. And that's gonna help you and your family stay safe and informed when we have critical weather events happening here in Monroe County. And like I say always, follow the emergency disaster services at Monroe County on their Facebook page. They're constantly putting out ways that you and your family can be safe and informed. And our hearts and certainly our dollars and donations are going
 out to the families suffering in Texas.
 The last thing that I'll mention is that artificial intelligence has officially hit the way we do business here in Indiana. On July 1st, Indiana Code 5-14, which is our open door law, was updated to include language for certain AI applications. And we are certainly thankful for the guidance that we've been given.
 as we know that many staff here in Monroe County do struggle with a lot of the meetings that are going on and trying to keep up with a lot of the meetings and so as tools become available to better keep track of all of the things that are said in these meetings and all the business that Monroe County conducts on a day-to-day basis we are thankful for that guidance and of course
 As the landscape of AI changes, we're looking forward to updating all of the ways that we work here in Monroe County to better serve the public. Thank you, Madam President. Thank you. Mr. Decker. Thank you very much. I just want to start off by saying I also very much echo Councilor Iverson's comments regarding the tragedy in Texas.
 every public official I believe every public official when they go to bed at night they think about the things that are the you know the the heartburns that keep them up at night.
 And every disaster, unfortunately, I don't know why this is it just is that way every disaster seems to give an education and a tragedy and a horror on both sides that is just really the hardest part of those jobs and as a as a parent public official human being.
 I think of all those folks and I just want to say that. I have been busy. I've been busy, so busy doing pre-budget things. I've had meetings with public defender's office. I've had a meeting with highway. All those are always fruitful discussions where counselors really learn a lot every time and every year in this job I learn something. I've also had a very fruitful discussion with veteran affairs and literally veteran affairs I caught them in action helping veterans
 which is something that they do robustly out of the old Curry building and if you're a person that is a veteran who has any question about a service related disability or benefits that you could potentially take advantage of go down there and see those guys call them both Steven and Andrew do a remarkable job and it's I literally watched it happen it's it's happening all the time with lots of outreach to our homeless community and those veterans and many many
 other so wonderful job that they do. I've had meetings with the BDC of course in my role
 And I also wanted to take just a moment to celebrate the gargantuan week that this community had last week in a few different affairs. And I want to compliment first the Monroe County Fair Board and Extension for getting done a massive fair. And I'm pretty particularly proud of this fair because I'm a parent of a reserve grand champion heading with a project heading to the state. But I spent some time at the fair about three nights. I think it was three nights, might have been four.
 And it's just beautiful. It's beautiful to see neighbors. It's nice to come together to talk about things, to have a lemon shake up and to see projects that people really work on. And I hope that every fair gets even better down the road. And thanks to the Democrats and their booth for letting me kind of set up there and take part. Also, I want to congratulate the city of Bloomington for a remarkable Fourth of July parade. The parade, as I told Councilor Feidl, we were
 doing a little walking in that parade.
 The parade recharges me sometimes for the hard days ahead. And the reason why is I get to see the community in just for a second, at least, much like the canopy of lights, come together for something. And even in tough times, and my gosh, are we ever in tough times, we come together to celebrate. Similarly, I saw the same thing over in Eltsville with their fireworks. If you want to know what their finale looked like, go to my Facebook page, literally the town that we're
 I remember when Jack met his defeat in the creek, they had a robust finish to those fireworks like nothing I've ever seen. I'm at one point almost laid down on the ground. There's always great things going on in this community, and it's good to have in the tough times, and they're tough, it's good to have nice things to celebrate along with fellow counselors, friends, and et cetera. Oh, and by the way, I left off of my last report, I realized that on the drive home that on Juneteenth, I spent time
 center where I and my bride got to participate in a cake walk and I haven't had that much fun I think since well I won't say because there's probably still statutory limits on the fun I was having that time but it was awesome and it's good to see in this community the different ways that we neighbor hug each other and have a good time so with that I'll stop talking. I was there to witness your fun time too.
 Councilor Welch. Missed something, didn't I? So in terms of updates, I am in the thick of meeting with various departments. Councilor Feidl and I met with the prosecutor last week, and I've got a couple other meetings this week, jail and sheriff coming up to kind of review budgets.
 everybody's it's that season and it's busy and so that's going well and to your point I learn so much from all of those meetings that is that is for sure wanted to also just put out there that in addition to
 the extension folks and the fair board, the Soil and Water Conservation District has a presence out at the fair. I was not able to make it out there this time, but they had a great conservation day. And, you know, it's very cool to see all the different
 all the different entities that come together for the fair, too. It's just a lot of fun. I didn't go, but I think I sent my kid enough times to represent our whole neighborhood. Definitely. But they're also doing a lot of other good work and hoping to get a grant for the Bean Blossom Creek watershed management planning process that has, in its early stages, been meaning for a while, but definitely ready to take that next step.
 I digress. There's one other thing I wanted to mention, and I'm not even sure what exactly it is, except that in the past month or so, it feels like we have been dealing with just blow after blow in terms of federal and state politics and policy.
 undermining some of what I feel are core values for our community and fundamental to what this work that we do is about. And sometimes it's hard to weed through the line item budgets and remember the bigger picture and what it is we're trying to do.
 it's incredibly important. And I'm just wanting people who may or may not tune into this riveting rebroadcast at some point that I just want people to remember that, you know, it's not, this isn't maybe the most fascinating venue, but the people who are up here, regardless of how well we coordinate or agree on things, we're all trying to make our communities better. We're trying to provide
 basic health wellness shelter services to people who desperately need them. And that job is not getting any easier. And I'm really proud to be working with people who put the time and effort in to do that. And I hope that as we all are working toward those same goals, we'll find ways to work more largely
 with our colleagues in a more collaborative way toward those goals. So that's it. Walking like a talking. There you go. It's time for my colorful report.
 So I think the most proud thing I did in the last couple of weeks or so was working with Kim. We managed to sort through 25 plus resumes, bring it down to four, and have a wonderful candidate and now a future employee that will begin on the 21st. I'm looking very much to working along with Lehua. So I'm delighted that.
 I think Kim, you and I worked well together, I think, to make that happen along with others. But you and I were kind of at the helm of this. So I appreciate. And then Councilor Crossley put the last conversation onto that process. And we all agreed that we were going to be served well. So I'm just delighted. And the fact that she comes in-house is even more special, I think. I've always been a big advocate of promoting within.
 So that was the most proud thing for fun. I attended the fairgrounds, their fireworks, and the fair itself, which was really cool, where I got my annual cinnamon rolls and corndog. But where I come from, they were called pronto pups. And I looked that up, because I didn't know the difference. A pronto pup is made with pancake batter, and a corndog is made with cornmeal batter.
 So there you go. That's your info tip for the evening. That's great. So I was in, as was mentioned, I was in the Fourth of July parade, had a good time there. There was a lot of excitement at the end of the fireworks at Ellisville for sure. Not a good ending in some of that.
 I've been meeting with constituents and networking meetings, the budget meetings that everybody's been talking about doing my share of those with my assignments. So I think I'll just leave it at that and report on some of those budget meetings the next time. Thank you. Thank you.
 I guess I'll wrap it up here. Again, just special thanks to Ms. Kim Schill and Councilor Feidl for their dual work and getting our hire for
 our office because budget time is upon us. And we hope that Lehua is going to be all ready to go. And if she's not, that's OK, because she'll learn. So I appreciate that. And once again, I appreciate the fact that, again, she is a county employee, and we're keeping her on the higher echelon for however she envisions herself here in county government. So I appreciate that. Also got some feedback from some department heads
 about how this budget process is going. And it seems that we got some positive feedback. So I appreciate the fact that liaisons are meeting and having those conversations. I appreciate the fact that council staff, Michelle and Courtney Moser, one of our former employees who's also still in county government.
 I appreciate the fact that they implemented some of the changes that we are now reaping the benefits of, and I hope this can continue to move forward. So I appreciate all hands on deck. I am in the process of meeting with Councilor Iverson so we can go over the budget of the commissioners. That'll be fun.
 will be meeting with Ms. Gregory for the auditor's office. So it is that most wonderful time of the year, whether you mean it or sarcastically mean it, it's common whether you like it or not. I too also attended not once but twice to the counting fair and it was so much fun. I won a prize.
 and it was so much fun because I took it away from a kid. But it was so much fun and I'm just so thankful. So major shout out to those that put on the fair because it was a great turnout and parking was free and it was awesome. So I enjoyed that. And the only last thing that I will say on my mind that council will just continue to put up is again, as I mentioned before in our conversation, the fact that
 We can have civil discussions and disagreements and conversations, but we can do those in a respectful way. And again, I still stand firm and ten toes down on my five foot body that we can continue to have those hard conversations. And I look forward to them. I don't shy away from it. And neither do us here on the council side. And I appreciate discussions, even if they are long and lengthy. I think those are conversations that are needed and needed to have.
 last thing um just kidding i have more um that i was going to say that's on my heart and soul is the fact the changes that are happening regarding iu and the degrees that are assumed to go away in the next couple of years and phase out that is going to be a huge shock to this particular community as iu is one of the biggest employers here in the county if not the biggest
 hope that my conspiracy theory is wrong. But with all of that, everything that everybody worked so hard for, I do think that we need to prepare ourselves for mass exodus. People might not feel safe. People want to have job securities and whatever.
 And people might leave and so I think that we heard you know a couple of weeks ago from the colleagues up here that went to the BDC meeting predictions were grim about a certain age range which is
 a lot of us up here who have families who are going to be leaving this county because number one, they can't stay here because they can't afford to or their jobs are not here. We've heard time and time again from BEDC and others that companies, we can't even attract certain business companies because we don't even have the infrastructure such as housing and other things to be here.
 The biggest thing that we need to really try to work on together is trying to figure out if we do have a mass exodus from employees from Indiana University.
 how are we going to retain some of those folks? And what jobs do we have here? And how can we retain them in the housing that they have here? So that's a big task. I know that might be out of our jurisdiction lane of things. And I'd look to, again, our three county commissioners to figure out how we can do this. But it is a grim task.
 It's a grim season right now and there has to be a glimmer of hope and I just really hope that people are really thinking ahead and not looking to the city because we have room in the county to do so. The last thing is, I don't know if anybody saw this, but I saw it come in here right before our meeting, but there is a life that was lost.
 a young cell that was lost. And I don't really want to speak too much of it, but I just saw from some of the social media posts that it doesn't seem that it was, it might be due to neglect. Again, I don't know and I don't really want to speculate because I don't have all the information. But it also goes to show that sometimes the coverage that we have is not good.
 I know that we have you know Mr Askins here that does a lot with what he can with the small team that he has and we definitely appreciate his footage. But to those that are on teams that you know are
 of other news organizations here in town instead of sometimes maybe griping on some of the things that we kind of bicker about in the county and city, you know, maybe a few weeks later after that happened. I really hope that we can shine a light on this particular incident that happened because this is a child and it would be really nice to figure out
 what else has happened. So again, I really hope that we can have better coverage. And I look to those that can do that. So again, appreciate the discussion that we had tonight. I appreciate council staff and all the work that we've gone through. We still obviously got a lot of work to do, but the work continues on July 22nd. And without that being said, we are adjourned. Thank you.