Okay, welcome everybody and we apologize for our tardiness today is Tuesday, September 16 2025. And
 today is our regular county council meeting.
 And so here for the record and the night you hillbill room I'm going to start from the left here.
 We have counselors Liz Spiro Kate wolves Trent Deckard, and Peter Iverson.
 And I know that counselor.
 Henry was supposed to start virtually so I'm, I'm still trying to log in here and see I know he's
 coming in.
 So, neither counselor Henry or talk are here but when they are here we will note for the record
 their arrival. So, next up on the agenda is the Pledge of Allegiance so all those able to stand
 please stand for the pledge.
 The republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for
 all.
 Okay. And so next up is the adoption of tonight's agenda does any council member wish to make
 changes to tonight's agenda.
 Okay. And seeing no changes. I am going to see if we can do this by voice vote since we don't have
 anybody virtually just yet. So all those in favor of a proven tonight's agenda signify by saying
 aye.
 Opposed same sign. All right, motion carries. We have a definite packed agenda so I hope you got
 your jammies and your treats because we are in for a long way.
 But it's the business of the public so that is what we are going to do. Next up is public comments
 so this is for items that are not on tonight's agenda.
 So if you are sitting here in the natural room and you feel compelled to make a comment about
 something that's not on the agenda. You can come forward to the lectern here in the natural room,
 you'll have up to three minutes, or you can raise your hand via teams.
 And I thought I saw one of the yellow emoji hands via teams raised, I did. Okay.
 So, if you are on teams, Mr. mg you can go ahead and unmute and you'll have up to three minutes.
 And thank you, Madam President, good evening, my name is Mr. energy for greater business and growth
 commerce.
 I do not envy you at all each department comes to you during these budget requests and the type of
 community needs yet, you're first, you're forced to say no, no, no, this is not easy work.
 I think you were asking one only made that harder. I commend your discipline and perspective that
 it requires. But here we are. It's the 2016 budget traffic carrying $8 million deficit a serious
 challenge that Monroe County has managed to finances with foresight that many of its neighbors is
 not.
 Make maintaining your ready date on the general reserves, made above state averages by comparison
 large counties have a near as projected near zero general fund balance and payroll deficits of
 counties had their door fall audit issues.
 Monroe County is in a stronger position because of sort of shift like the county council, the
 chamber urge you not to rely on the reserve funding set as a true blast.
 What the reserves are depleted options narrow quickly.
 Rebuilding those balances take years.
 The Justice Center financing at further complexity.
 Hang with that project that this magnitude requires really staying firm within our needs while
 looking at long different long term operation approach that means investing efficiently, staffing
 sustainability diversion programs that reduce future costs.
 I appreciate your leadership. I know the chamber appreciates your leadership under these difficult
 circumstances I want to thank you for the work on behalf of the community and good luck tonight, as
 you prepare for another marathon meeting.
 Thank you for your time.
 We appreciate that. Thank you very much.
 All right. Is there anybody here in the night you hill room that wish to make public comment on
 tonight's or on items that are not on tonight's agenda again you can come forward to the lectern
 here in the night you hill room, or if there are more community members
 you can raise your hand via teams.
 Seeing none. All right. Well, we appreciate.
 Do we know. Okay. All right. We had another taker. Okay, so seeing none in the night you hill room
 and seeing none, virtually via teams we will go ahead with item number five, which is department
 updates.
 These are items for department updates for items, not on the agenda, and each department is more
 than welcome to raise your hand via teams, or you can come forward to the lectern here in the night
 you hill room and give your
 department update, and each department will have up to 10 minutes, so the floor is now open for
 those who are in the night you hill room, and I would like to make department updates for items not
 on tonight's agenda.
 The record we have counselor hawk in the building.
 And seeing none on via teams. All right, you're pretty quiet today.
 All right, so next up is item number six which are the consent agenda items. Council I move to
 approve the following consent agenda item for September 16, a, the highway department's request and
 fund 8176 dash 0000 Eagleton bridge number
 922 for the creation of account line 37416 design be the highway department's request and fund 1176
 dash 0000 motor vehicle highway, a category transfer of $30,000 from the personnel category to the
 supplies category.
 C, the aviation department's request and fund 1107 dash 0000 aviation fund, a category transfer
 from $10,000 to the from the supplies category to the capital category, and D, the county council
 summary minutes from July 8 and 22 and August 8 12 and 26 for 2025.
 All of those meetings. Second. All right, we got a motion and a second does council wish to make
 any comment on the consent agenda items.
 I know I had sent early this morning, late last night early this morning and it looks like those
 got corrected so appreciate that. Thank you very much.
 Does anybody else have anything.
 All right. Seeing none. Since we still don't have a counselor via teams, and we have six of us here.
 All those in favor of approving tonight's consent agenda items signify by saying aye.
 All right. Motion carries. Thank you so much. Next up we will get on with the business at hand. And
 we have item number seven which is ongoing business and first up is the health department.
 Council as a reminder, this is the second reading of this request due to the lack of unanimous vote
 as at the August 12 2025 meeting.
 I move to approve the health department's request to amend the 2025 salary ordinance and fund 1161
 dash 0000 local public health services to remove the positions outlined on the agenda.
 Second. All right, we got a motion in a second. And we have Miss Kelly here along with board member
 Lisa Robinson. Welcome.
 Welcome. Good evening. So I'm not sure that there's a whole lot to add to this request. We're just
 coming back an additional time. So the reason that we moved these positions is due to legislative
 changes.
 So these two positions oversee public health emergency preparedness. So we really thought that it
 was in the best interest to move the move those positions to an alternative funding source just to
 ensure that we can serve anyone in need in a public health emergency.
 All right. Thank you very much. And I already see a hand by Councilor Hawk. Go ahead. Yes, I know
 there's been much conversation about anything being moved to 1159.
 And so I would like for you to comment on that. Mr. Iverson did when you met with them or is there
 anyone else have an update about that.
 I think what. Well, first of all, let us be really clear and Ms. Kelly, please chime in at any
 point. I'm just speaking as your liaison 1159 it refers to one of your funds.
 And that's where we moved a lot of these positions to 1161 is where we're at today.
 And so we're talking about moving positions between two different funds. So when we're using these
 numbers, I want to be really clear for the public that we're talking about positions that are
 moving from one health department fund to another, even though we're using numbers to clarify that.
 They lose anything in translation.
 Can I hear. Well, sure. Okay. Yeah, so the positions have already been moved and approved into 1159
 a meeting ago, the, there was a request to de appropriate 1161 for these positions that the
 appropriation was approved.
 The removal from the salary ordinance was not approved. And this is to get us in tandem with our,
 what you guys have already taken care of. So, this is just to catch us up on the salary ordinance
 with regards to what's been appropriated and the appropriate.
 Okay, Madam President. Yes, of course I get all of that.
 And Kate was anxious to say something if you want to jump in here before I think you're probably
 going to point out the difference between the funds and the right, you know, we're talking numbers
 and the public might want to know why it makes a difference.
 1159 is the fund that is in part of what we call the frozen levy. So the more positions that we put
 in 1159, there's less dollars over there to make payroll for everything covered in county general
 and everything else that's within that frozen levy.
 So I really object to moving positions over to 1159 from a grant fund. But when when that one hadn't
 happened earlier, let me just make it clear when that happened earlier, a lot's happened since that
 time.
 And I think more is going to be addressed on that situation. So, I would not want it. I was the one
 that said, Oh, well, let's not do appropriate yet because we got to make sure we got the money
 moved over.
 I get that. But since that time we've seen some major changes in what our revenue situation is
 going to be, as well as a request for spending. So, I would expect that this council is going to
 want just move these people right back over to 1161 into the grant.
 I do not know that and that's the reason why I thought I might get more clarity. Thank you.
 Okay, thank you. Councilor.
 Oh, just to be very blunt, I think there is a possibility that we're going to have to make changes
 and verse, what we did before, I don't know that that's necessarily happening but when we discuss
 the budget later in this same meeting.
 We have to fix some stuff, and I know that's on the short list just from our previous conversations,
 my suggestion might be to table this item until we figure out what we're doing.
 That's not helpful to to continuity, but I think we're already at a point where continuity is not
 really happening. That's just my suggestion so I would move to table until a few table till later
 in the meeting.
 Is that thing. Thanks, amend the agenda. I moved to amend the agenda to move this particular item,
 just the sub item to.
 After the budget discussion item on the agenda sorry, I'm looking at it here.
 After number 10.
 Number 10 B. Sorry.
 Okay, just put it at the end of the 10th.
 Does anyone.
 What counselor will to say and is because just to have everybody know and understand and count to
 counselor hawks point arm, as we discussed last week in, and the budget, obviously there are some
 things that have happened and have come about, where we now are faced with making maybe making some
 changes and if it's the will of the council majority of the council to kind of move those items
 back into the funding where it came from.
 But this was an ongoing business that came about, didn't have an anonymous vote and so therefore,
 counselor wilts is asking to move this particular item which is seven a to the end of this agenda
 and county council business when we are talking about the 2026 budget of years.
 So, she motioned and I don't think I've heard a second.
 Okay, we got a motion in a second. Is there any discussion on this motion here.
 Did you all have anything to add to. Yes.
 Yes, thank you. I just want to remind council that because of state mandates, moving the funds from
 the 1159 fund the levy fund back to 1161 means that we have to follow for what those funds are used
 for we have to follow the state mandates.
 So those funds can only be used for citizens, and those people have to provide proof of citizenship
 so that really affects those decisions and moving that back to 1161 I think the original plan, or
 the original idea with moving them from 1161 back to the levy
 fund was so that all persons could be served even if they were not citizens. So that's really an
 important nuance to consider.
 Yes, okay. I'd like to make sure that that doesn't go out into the air that you have to be citizens
 because that's not what the legislation says they can be here as long as they're here legally.
 I don't think they're here as a student visa they're here on whatever you can't say it's just
 because they're not citizens, and that's just incorrect and we don't want that going out to the
 public, because it's not it's not a correct statement.
 I'm going to look to our attorney miss Turner King for this, so that we can kind of move along here.
 And since you know it has been stated by Miss Robinson and then.
 That was my understanding as the reason why but I just want to get a clarification for this, and
 then we can vote on this.
 Okay. Okay. In the meantime, I guess I had a question for you all.
 So when this first started back earlier this summer I think maybe may one of my first proposals,
 which was what some of some other health departments are doing is to split fund all positions.
 So take that entire amount. And so I had met with Michelle, and we kind of drafted this idea and
 this proposal of half of the money and 1159 the other half and 1161.
 So, that's one way there are counties that have just moved positions back to their county levy fund.
 There are some counties that just because of the overall reductions have started to eliminate
 positions.
 So, it's kind of happening at a couple different ways. I think the most challenging part of this is,
 I'm not an attorney.
 No one in our department is an attorney. And how do we interpret and apply this.
 It's very anxiety, I mean, provoking, I mean, just trying to understand and follow this so that we're
 in compliance.
 But then what do we do in those situations where someone doesn't have documentation, or they don't
 want to provide that and then you kind of get into a situation where we're just trying to provide
 basic public health services, and we're operating
 like we're the BMV.
 And so, have you also thought about working with other community groups like health or other groups,
 potentially, you know, I just wanted to get your take and see if y'all thought about that.
 So, I wouldn't feel comfortable speaking on specific organizations, but I would feel comfortable
 making sure that we're all aware that we have actually had our community partners pull back.
 So, because of this, these requirements and these changes, and just the discomfort and the, again,
 just trying to figure out the compliance.
 And so that's, that's been a challenge because now there's this situation of, we've had community
 partnerships, we're trying to grow that but now this like, oh, well, no, we can't operate like that
 we don't operate like that.
 And I know we're out of time now, but I wanted to see with Mr and a king or she had that pulled up.
 So I'm looking at Indiana code 1646 10 3 and subsection F and that code says funds may only be used
 for Indiana residents who are lawfully present in the United States.
 And when you look at the history of that code section 2025 amendment, substitute it lawfully
 present for legal citizens.
 Okay. Okay. So I got my degree, not in law.
 And I don't know if anybody else up here did but the it's the will of the council to figure out the
 financial aspect of this so sounds like your interpretation is what Mr and a king was talking about.
 Okay. So, as a reminder, we got a motion on the floor to move this item to item 10 to have the
 conversation. When it comes to the larger 2026 budget.
 So, with that being said, may we please have a roll call vote. Since you're just moving the item on
 the agenda, it can be a box. That's right. Okay. That's right. Okay, so all those in favor of
 moving seven, a to 10, or to item 10 which is just the 2026 budget conversation signify by saying I.
 I, all those opposed same sign.
 Okay, motion carries. So again we'll. Sounds like y'all in for the long run too. Okay. But you're
 still sitting there because you still got more business with us so item eight is news, the start of
 new business, which is the health department.
 To approve the health department's request and fund 8104 dash 9626 public health emergency
 preparedness create new account lines, and to simultaneously approve additional appropriations of $10,724
 and 63 cents in the supplies category and $9,275 and 37 cents in the services category for a total
 appropriation of $20,000.
 Okay, what would you like to add to this.
 This is just standing standard funding that the health department has been receiving for many years.
 The amount did was reduced slightly $5,000 during this grant period, but this helps just to support
 our public health emergency preparedness programs.
 All right, thank you for that. And look into my left to see if anybody has any questions on this
 item.
 Looking to my right and seeing if anybody has any.
 No. Okay, so, oh, I'm so used to being budget mode now, now we got to go back to public comment. If
 you have public comment on this item, you can come forward to the lectern here in the night you
 hill room or raise your hand via teams.
 If you have any questions on maybe please have a roll call vote.
 Councilor vital. Yes.
 Councilor will.
 Yes. Councilor hawk. Yes.
 Councilor cross.
 The partner constant cross Lee. Yes. Councilor Iverson. Yes. Councilor Decker. Yes. Motion passes
 60. All right, next up is item B.
 The health department's request and fund 8104-9625 public health emergency preparedness to de
 appropriate 30 cents in the personnel category $62.16 in the supplies category $438.94 in the
 services category and $150.10 in the capital category for a total de appropriation of $651.50.
 Thank you. Okay, Miss Kelly.
 This is just a housekeeping items our financial manager is really trying to stay on top of, you
 know, reconciling our grant funds and so this is just funding that we did not use during the grant,
 the last grant cycle, so.
 I'm looking here, I just had a, I guess a quick question before I take it, or give it back to the
 larger council is there any particular reason why we like. Well, besides the fact that we just didn't
 use it, is there any other reason why that just went unspent.
 Yes, it was timing trying to get down to I mean it takes a while to get supply requests in and get
 orders and to get invoices so we were working to try to spend all of that money out but trying to
 align it with those dollar amounts and get it in to be able to get an invoice
 before the end of the cycle, just didn't happen. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right, now look
 into the larger council here to see if anybody has any questions on this item.
 This is maybe tangential to this item so this should come up another time that you mentioned your
 financial managers working on this, and your financial manager hasn't been to see us at all during
 these, the budget meetings.
 I'm just wondering why, because all the other departments bring their financial manager. Is there a
 reason.
 Not necessarily I guess just because I'm used.
 When I was with Penny and kind of going through that process with her, and just bringing these
 items, sort of like when I was mentoring with Penny.
 So I guess that's why.
 Because you didn't bring anybody then. Yeah.
 It might be.
 Well, I'm not gonna tell you how to do your job.
 Well, I was curious to that effect too, when it comes to that, because there's another deappropriation
 here for something else too. And I guess I'm wondering, because I know that the auditor's office
 usually works with financial managers.
 Is there a way in which like the auditor's office would be able to work with the financial manager,
 so that, you know, we can spend down every penny, even though I know this is a small amount here.
 But that's still money that we are given back. And so, I know we've had this happen a couple of
 times already and it's great that we're finding it, but I wish that we can be spending it as well.
 So I guess I was just wondering how, how could, you know, your financial manager work with the
 auditor's office or counsel for them, all of the above, so that we can try to make sure that we
 spend these dollars down.
 I guess it's really, I guess that's something to think about and consider how we can kind of expedite
 the processes and streamline processes in the, in the future to align our budgets and to be able to
 make category in house transfers to use down all of the funds.
 All right. Thank you. All right. Anybody else have any other questions on this item.
 All right, seeing none. If you have public comment on this item, come forward to the lectern here
 in the night you hill room or raise your hand via teams.
 All right, and seeing none. Maybe please have a roll call vote.
 Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
 Okay, next up is item C council I move to approve the health department's request and fund 81 12
 dash 9626 STD strengthening prevention for the creation of account line one zero one four to
 disease intervention specialist, and to simultaneously approve an additional appropriation of $58,835
 in the personnel category.
 Okay. Okay. And what would you like to add to this item.
 So, due to the recent district expansion of our GIS services. This is additional funding that was
 supporting an additional position.
 So, this would be to cover the salary expenses for a fourth disease intervention specialist and the
 grant term it would end still February 28 of 2026.
 All right.
 All right, I'm going to go to counsel Iverson and then counselor Hawk. And there's reason to
 celebrate here because for a while we had said, we're not going to do a fourth position because we
 don't have the grant funding we went around and around and around
 and we finally have the grant contract, and the language for this so it's reason to celebrate.
 Okay, counselor Hawking then I'll go and I'm looking at the same. It covers into the end of the
 grant cycle on February 28 2026 well we're almost upon it.
 Right.
 Same question, go for it.
 So it's this amount, not equal to their annual salary it's equal to what they would earn between
 now and the end of February.
 So, the amount is estimated around April, because that's when we first started the discussions for
 additional funding.
 So, it just covers a portion not the, not the full.
 It covers. It's supposed to be retroactive then to April, it would have been if we would have
 received approval for the position.
 Would we be able to spend it.
 No.
 Okay.
 Be able to use a portion of it but again, just because of the timing when we made the request and
 then waiting for the additional funds.
 So, one of the reasons why we did that is because the best practice was, we were waiting for that
 contract to happen.
 And so we've had other departments that have come through that have had that another difference of
 opinions on all sides, but I think we were waiting for that contract to come in, because that was
 what we have done for everything.
 Yes, I mean I think part of our challenge with this also is, we had two different grant funds going
 on that was supporting our disease intervention programming plus we had some funding set aside, and
 the health first Indiana.
 So, it's, it can be when we're talking about expanding and getting new positions we do have a third
 position that started in August, so it started being able to use some of these dollars, but we're
 going to run into the same situation with just not being
 able to use all of this money because we're waiting for the actual executed contract to be able to
 get the position and higher.
 Last night, um, because I had so much time last night to read all this. I was my understanding and
 kind of reading some of it is that it could potentially like you could potentially be awarded for
 more next year is that.
 Yeah, we expect, we fully expect to continue receiving this funding. Okay, services. Okay, so it's
 not like we're, this is a one time kind of thing where you get it and February of next year.
 Thank you, ma'am. It's all done. No, so, historically, from my understanding the health department
 here has received grant funding for their STD programming for an extremely long time during coven
 so prior to my time here, then they started receiving
 supplemental funding, which they could then increase some of the personnel, some of that
 supplemental code funding has been going away which we've been trying to use that down but we've
 still been receiving that standard STD funding, and just because
 of the work we do for all of the counties, we fully anticipate to continue receiving the funding.
 Okay, I'm gonna go to counselor Decker and then I'll go back to Iverson.
 We tell me if I have this wrong I recall this being before us, and I think I got fired up on this
 one a little bit on that fourth.
 Now this person, theoretically, will serve outside of Monroe County is that right.
 Yes, so including Monroe County but also outside and remind me funding sources at federal or state
 I should know but I'm blanking right now.
 This is a federal.
 So, in the other question I have is
 anymore in government you almost have to be one part psychic one part do your homework and the rest
 figured out, or pay for a tutor but how stable.
 Does this look and the reason I ask is if services go out there people are getting things, or you've
 got somebody doing it. And then that changes because public health no longer the flavor of the
 month or whoever did this got cut.
 How, how stable is this looking are they talking about it or are you getting any signals on that.
 I think that it seems very stable I did have a conversation today with an individual from the
 Indiana Department of Health because he was actually checking on the progress of this and if we
 were going to be receiving the fourth position kind of where
 we were with expanding, and I shared with him some of the concerns and, you know, he said that he
 fully believes that this is stable funding that will continue for providing a lot of work for a lot
 of counties.
 And I think it would be extremely challenging to try to find other sources to cover that work that
 we have been doing for so long.
 Councilman Decker syphilis gonorrhea, and other sexually transmitted diseases are not going away,
 they are on the rise.
 And that and our, and our government cannot allow for people to infect other humans, no matter who
 they are. So, this, this funding is stable and it will remain stable because we have to have it.
 I doctor I've got that I'm down with that. Unfortunately people that serve in jobs, not on this
 bench. Sometimes they aren't stable, and they probably need to hear that message from you and a lot
 of other good people, because I've seen some wild
 and crazy things this year, this entire night should be called wild and crazy night, because of
 that. So I gotcha.
 First of all, Dr. Thank you for making that point, the grant clearly stipulates that these ST eyes
 need to be looked after and we know that, thanks to the reporting that is Kelly you've been doing
 with the county commissioners that that we are
 seeing increased cases and so we're, we're. I, that's why I'm in favor of this, this fourth
 position because I think we do need it and, and a lot of these cases don't go reported, these are,
 these are very silent cases, there's a lot of
 stigma still attached to, to a lot of this. My question to you is, I would hate to go back through
 what we did earlier this year with a contract.
 Do our partners ID OH the Indian Department of Health under, like, can we get a contract earlier or
 what's the status of, of kind of that that that whole mess I guess.
 I would assume some part of that was based on what was going on in the state legislature.
 That because the state legislature did not really close until mid March. Yeah. So their funding
 wasn't established. So, all of the other departments, including what had to be updated because of
 changes in the legislation.
 Everything got way off track. And so, I believe that is as much an excuse for why this was so
 severely delayed in coming to us, and why you are so delayed in receiving our contract.
 I think it's been really clear that, assuming that the funding is stable. So Councilman Decker was
 just talking about assuming we can get this contract early. It sounds like there will be funding
 for this and I'll conclude to your point.
 I don't know that there's other funding for a position like this, and we need to be using these
 grant dollars as well as we can.
 I think Ms. Kelly was about to speak, so I think Council Iverson had addressed it, so I want to
 give you an opportunity as well, since you were getting ready to speak. So I just wanted to see if
 you had anything else to add to that.
 Yeah, in relation to the delay. I know that the state was having a fiscal closeout period so we did
 have the discussion.
 Again around in April and so I think just because of that there was a little bit of a delay when we
 with them getting that processed into us but it was actually this was ready.
 In August, but because of the council sessions it's gotten pushed back. So, we received it, it was
 sent out for signature actually around 60 days ago.
 So, but it, they're still waiting for the, the signed contract at this time.
 All right, and then,
 do you, Council did you have something
 about budgeting questions here.
 So, we're approving the 58835 but we know that that's not going to be spent on this position,
 because this is all in personnel.
 Right, February, so then we are we getting in that much money, and we aren't going to spend that
 much money and upset in the fund, or, or what will happen and I understand the reason why we want
 to put because the way salaries are figured.
 You put in a dollar amount for the salary and then you figure out how much that is per per hour to
 figure out how much that paycheck should be. But my question is, what happens with this additional
 dollars it's in this personal line that is not going to be
 spent will it remain in the fund, or does that go back to the state, or what happens with that.
 So the best we could do is try to submit a budget revision to see if we could receive approval to
 use some of the funding and other account lines on other things but it will.
 It will go unused otherwise.
 If it would go back to the state, it wouldn't just set there. Right. Hopefully it wouldn't just set
 there doing nothing. If, if we are not allowed to use it, then it would just go back to the state,
 I would think, back to the taxpayer
 to begin with, I or federal government or wherever it is.
 That was just a question.
 Okay. I mean I would assume it would be like the previous item that it was before that we didn't
 use.
 So, there, it looks like there's board member that has their hand raised up, and it went away so I
 don't know if they had enough or wanted to add quickly to the discussion here before we move on
 since we're out of time.
 Okay.
 Go to counsel will to and then we're going to ask for a roll call vote.
 Is, is there I haven't read the agreement thoroughly so I'm not sure if it stipulates that this has
 to be for one person, one individual or if you know that you're not able to use this amount for one
 position, could you offset the costs of any of your other disease
 intervention specialist if that's the name of it.
 Pardon me if I don't have it right.
 Who might be being paid out of other funds with this money between now and the end of February,
 like is there that an option that sure it would be but I still think we're going to have a lot more
 money for personnel, again just because of getting that the third one and then the timing that it
 took to get the third one and then now the fourth one so I think, unless we can get approval from
 the state to use it in other areas.
 We just don't have personnel within this period that it will be used for.
 It has to be used for a specific program so it's just covering anyone holding one of these four
 positions is that correct. Yes, this, they have to work under this grant and follow all of these
 terms that cannot be used for other people or anything outside of this program.
 No, we have anyone working on this program that is funded in the levy fund.
 Oh, okay.
 Good. All right. Good questions. All right. So, um, now we will go to public comment if you have
 public comment on this item raise your hand via teams you'll have up to three minutes, or you can
 come forward to the lectern here in the night you will run.
 All right, and seeing none.
 May we please have a roll call vote.
 Yes.
 Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
 Next up is item D. Could I just ask you, has this person already been hired, or is it within your
 staff to move somebody know we've been waiting on approval for this position.
 And we are actually next up on item D so we're going to move to approve the health department's
 request and fund at 112 dash 9626 STD strengthening prevention to amend the 2025 salary ordinance,
 and add account line 10142 disease intervention specialist,
 35 hours, Pat, a non exempt with an effective date of September 21 2025.
 All right, we got a motion in a second what would you like to add on this item.
 I think this is just general housekeeping.
 Okay, and looking over here to my left to see if anybody has any questions on this.
 Right. Right. My question once again, because it was about this. This person's are you have not
 already hired this person but you've interviewed or where are we on because you want the salary to
 go back or to start the 21st.
 We've been trying on almost all year to for this position, we that we haven't had approval for the
 position we've been waiting for approval for the position we've been waiting for this contract to
 then be able to post to try to recruit for the position
 we had someone that we could have offered the position to back in May, but we did not have the
 contract.
 I just thought maybe it was someone that you might be moving within the system.
 Okay, thank you. And just like all the other ones can't do anything until you have the contract and
 which is what you're doing right now and then hopefully if this passes, you can go forth into the
 community and the ether and figure out how you can get this person.
 Right. Okay, getting out of good counselor Iverson, if there's someone watching that's interested
 in this type of work where can they apply.
 So they can send an email to the health department to email address they could send it to me but
 again the position hasn't been posted but it will be posted within, if it's approved, it will be
 posted.
 Right. They can always go to the county website job postings area.
 All right, any other questions on this item.
 All right. Public comment is your turn now so if you have public comment on this item you can come
 forward to the lectern here the night you hill room, or raise your hand via teams.
 And maybe please have a roll call vote.
 Yes, Councilor Fido. Yes, Councilor Decker. Yes, Councilor Iverson. Yes, Councilor Wills. Yes,
 Councilor cross Lee. Yes, Councilor Hawk. Yes, motion passes six zero.
 All right, next up is item E council I move to approve the health department's request and fund 8153
 dash 9625 harm reduction for an additional appropriation of $71,391 in the personnel category.
 Okay, and what would you like to add to this.
 So this is additional funding from the Indiana Department of Health that supports our harm
 reduction specialists so previously, they did extend the timeline for the grant cycle to May 31 of
 2029.
 And as they receive additional funding then the thought is they will provide that to us. So without
 this we only had enough funding to support this position until around November of this year, so
 this will extend us into next year.
 Okay.
 All right, Council do you have any questions or comments on this item.
 Congratulations.
 Seeing none.
 If there's public comment you can come forward to the lectern here in the night you hill room or
 you can raise your hand via teams.
 Roll call vote.
 You're talking about the same thing.
 Councillor, Councillor Hawk.
 Right.
 Yes.
 Yes.
 Councilor Wilz.
 Yes.
 Councilor Iverson.
 Yes.
 Councilor Crosley.
 Yes.
 Councilor Decker.
 Yes.
 Councilor Feidl.
 Yes.
 Motion passes six zero.
 All right, item S.
 Council, I move to approve the health department's request and fund 8180-9625 DIS Intervention
 STD, the deappropriation of $42,014.20 in the personnel category, $100.81 in the supplies
 category, and $1,374.90 in the services category for total deappropriation of $43,489.91.
 Second.
 Okay, I'd like to add to this.
 So again, this is just more just trying to do housekeeping, so just funds because we had
 those multiple grant funds supporting our disease intervention program, some of those
 just because of the reduced personnel that we've been waiting on, we didn't fully utilize.
 All right, and counsel, do you have questions on this item?
 Okay.
 Now we will move on to public comment.
 Please come forward to the lectern here, and then at you, Hilberman, raise your hand via
 the teams if you have public comment on this item.
 Seeing none, may we please have a roll call vote?
 Counselor Iverson?
 Yes.
 Counselor Decker?
 Yes.
 Counselor Feidl?
 Yes.
 Counselor Wilts?
 Yes.
 Counselor Hawke?
 Yes.
 Counselor Crosley?
 Yes.
 Motion passes six zero.
 Okay, next up is item G.
 I move to approve the health department's request and fund 8180-9625 DIS intervention
 STD to amend the 2025 salary ordinance and remove account line 10107 disease intervention
 program coordinator and 17801 part time with an effective date of September 21st, 2025.
 Second.
 Go ahead.
 Just housekeeping again because we've been alternating positions within these two different
 DIS grants.
 Okay, thank you.
 All right, council, do you have questions on this item?
 All right, okay, seeing none, if you have public comment on this item, you can come
 forward to the lectern here in the NatU Hill room, or you can raise your hand via Teams.
 And seeing none, may we please have a roll call vote?
 Councilor Deckard?
 Yes.
 Councilor Wilts?
 Yes.
 Councilor Hawk?
 Yes.
 Councilor Crosley?
 Yes.
 Councilor Iverson?
 Yes.
 Councilor Feidl?
 Yes.
 Motion passes six zero.
 All right, thank you.
 We will see you in a little while.
 Thank you.
 All right, next up is item I from the highway department.
 Council, I move to approve the highway department's request and fund 1169-0000 local road and
 street for the creation of count line 3800, repair building and structure and simultaneously
 approve an additional appropriation of $100,000 in the services category.
 Second.
 That line item is 38000.
 Yes, that is true.
 Okay.
 I apologize.
 I just wanted to stay there for a second.
 Okay.
 I wasn't sure.
 Okay.
 Next up is Ms. Ridge.
 Hello.
 Welcome.
 Good evening.
 So our system was put in when the building was built, 1995.
 So it is the tanks need rewired.
 So again, we received a estimate for $92,173.
 And we're requesting the additional to be able to repair the fuel system that's used
 by all the fleet in the whole county.
 Thank you.
 And looking to council here, if you have any questions, it looks like councilor Hawk does.
 Go ahead.
 Yes.
 As a comment, why are we paying for this out of local road and streets since this is something
 that is a county wide fuel station, just because it's located at the highway garage.
 We need to be trying to protect those dollars in local road and street because that helps
 the entire county having to do with what we need those dollars highway to be used for.
 So was there any discussion with the commissioners to at least pay for a major part of this out
 of their Kim cap line or building repairs or something?
 I mean, this is not just for the highway, this is wrong.
 I mean, I want to make sure it's covered, but I just think it's wrong to cover it under
 local road and street.
 But that's because I love the highway and I think we're fighting for every penny.
 I think we've always paid those costs.
 But if you recall in the 2026 budget, we did ask for the gasoline line to be moved from
 the highway because it does, you know, this is right here is $100,000 that takes away
 from our paving program.
 But we did move it into your county general for the gas reimbursement.
 And I think it was 400,000 for that 25,000 for permits and inspections that we've always
 paid for.
 So this is above and beyond what we usually incur for this system.
 And I know everybody's budgets are tight.
 So did we reach out for anybody else to pay for this?
 No, it's been our responsibility, but we're hoping that changes possibly in the future.
 But again, this is it needs fixed and we want to be able to provide the gas for the whole
 county fleet at this point.
 Council Iverson and to your point, your 2026 budget request in this line is $200,000.
 Because I mean, based on my memory said, I mean, we're anticipating not only those lines
 to be moved and merged, but also those expenses are going to increase.
 I think what we had moved to the county general fund was the gasoline reimbursement line,
 which it doesn't have anything to do with really the repairs.
 It's just what's built out to the other departments for gasoline usage.
 Looking over here to my left to see if anybody has any questions.
 Councilor Decker.
 He said the last one went in in 1995 ish, roughly.
 Correct.
 Wow.
 So this is about a 30 year well hope we hope it lasts 30.
 We've had some other fixes along the way, but this is just one of those other fixes
 that included some wiring and everything.
 So no more signs of says let it unleaded or anything like that.
 All right.
 Anybody else over here?
 Have any questions?
 Councilor Woods in this line for the 26 budget, do you recall what projects are anticipated
 in a I'm jumping a little bit in the 2026 budget.
 Yeah, for this particular line.
 So what we so we didn't do a repair building and structure in your county general.
 We did a gas on the gasoline line, which is just reimbursements.
 But yeah, yeah, you I mean, we thought I just heard that it was budgeted at 200,000 for
 next year.
 So that we have put in for that we had to put off this year is for reconstructing the
 parking lot and the drainage out there.
 We did also put that project into the geo bond to hopefully that to cover that.
 And if that happens, then that 200,000 in the local run street will go to buy two minutes
 for paving.
 Okay, that's that's exactly what I was asking.
 Thank you.
 Okay. Does anybody else have any other questions or comments? All right. Seeing none, if you
 have public comment on this item, you can come forward to the lectern here in the night
 and heal room, or you can raise your hand via teams. And seeing none, maybe please have
 a roll call vote. Councillor Fiddle? Yes. Councillor Wills? Yes. Councillor Hawke? Yes.
 Councillor Prossley? Yes. Councillor Iverson? Yes. Councillor Deckard? Yes. Motion passes
 6-0. Okay. Next up is item J. Council, I move to approve the Highway Department's request
 and fund 1176-0000 Motor Vehicle Highway for an additional appropriation of $300,000 in
 the supplies category. Second. And this is just basically to help us finish up our 2025
 saving season. Okay. All right. Self-explanatory there. Anybody else has any questions or comments
 from Ms. Ridge on this item? Councillor Hawke? Love that word. It just means somebody's going
 to get something fixed. You know, I don't, you'd think $300,000 would go a long way,
 but when it comes to bituminous, it doesn't go as far as we'd like. But after all these
 years I finally learned how to say bituminous. Three times. All right. Does anybody else
 have any other questions or comments? All right. Seeing none. If you have public comment on
 this item, you can come forward to the lectern here in the Na'i Hill room, or you can raise
 your hand via Teams and seeing none, may we please have a roll call vote? Councilor Wills?
 Yes. Councilor Hawke? Yes. Councilor Crosley? Yes. Councilor Iverson? Yes. Councilor Decker?
 Yes. Councilor Feidl? Motion passes six zero. All right. Thank you. Have a good night. All
 right. Next up is item K for the board of commissioners. Council, I move to approve
 the commissioners request and fund 1000-0161 County General County Buildings for an additional
 appropriation of $12,900 in the supplies category and $319,636 in the services category for
 a total appropriation of $332,536. Second. All right. We have Ms. Angie Bertie here. Welcome.
 Thank you. Good evening, everyone. Good evening. This is relatively self-explanatory. These
 are all kind of lines that go to the management of our buildings within the county. Just to
 kind of give you an idea of where we're at financially at the moment on our materials
 and parts line. We're at 4% of our approved budget, so we have $402 left. Cleaning supplies,
 we're at 8% of our originally appropriated budget. We have $4,166 remaining in that particular
 line. And utilities, we've done some transferring, but we are down to actually, so we have 0.57
 percent of our original budget remaining, so we have $3,011.17 in utilities. And our service
 contracts, we have 10% of our original appropriated budget, and we have a balance of $26,224.
 Could you repeat the last one, please? The balance?
 The last one. Sure. That's our service contracts, balance
 of $26,224.06. Welcome. Put in the agenda request kind of an explanation of what these
 lines generally cover to help. Okay. All right. And thank you for that. And
 for the record, we do have Councilor Henry that has joined us. So now all seven council
 members are here present in the Knight-U-Hill room. Do we have any questions or comments
 for Ms. Purdy on this particular item? Oh, Councilor Decker.
 So sorry, take me back. We're looking at this now additionally beyond what is already appropriated
 for the year. Help me to understand kind of where that is now. Is it because expenses
 are running or higher? What are you speaking of? Which one? All of
 them? All of them? Yeah. Yes. I think that the expenses have gone up and that's why we're
 at this point in time. I do believe that the service contracts, I know that we moved the
 lawn care into that particular line and removed the grounds, which was a different one.
 All right. I'm just looking at all this. Councilor Iverson, and then I'll come back
 to Councilor Woods. In the utilities line, you noted that these
 are utilities including the internet for one, two, three, four, five, six, seven of our buildings.
 Can you expand on that a little bit more? Do they not have internet right now and they're
 getting internet or are they getting better internet coverage or what exactly is the expense
 here? In specific to the internet costs, that might
 be ... We do have to pay for some internet costs with some of our other buildings. I'm
 trying to think of which buildings that is right now.
 CH, JB, Health, Showers, CCE and EOC. Actually, the internet is also part of our
 utility expenses. The utilities that you normally see and that are really costing us are your
 basic electricity, gas, and things of that nature. Then we do have to pay for our internet
 service and it's now coming out of the utility line.
 I see. Okay. All right. All right. Then you use the term utilities including internet.
 This is just ... That's a catch all for what you just described in terms of we need electricity
 for these buildings, we need gas for these buildings, we need internet for these buildings,
 et cetera, et cetera.
 Yeah. I'm not sure that that was my language, but just to indicate that this particular
 line covers those buildings and all of those types of expenses.
 The additional is because those expenses increased?
 I cannot answer that question. I don't know for a fact if they have increased or not.
 What I do know is that we've added the showers building, which was something that we got
 at the end of last year. We have not had one full year of budgeting and paying the expenses
 associated with the showers building. When we submitted our budget, we didn't have the
 showers building at that point in time. We owned the building, but we weren't responsible
 for the utilities.
 That's a lot of utilities.
 They're expensive.
 Yes. Okay. All right. Thanks.
 We'll go to Councillor Wilks next.
 If we were to say no, which I'm not, but I'm trying to get a sense of how, you know, how
 these funds are working and how you're working with the funds. But if we were to say no and
 you've got tiny little bits left in each one of these, what would you do?
 We wouldn't be able to pay our bill. Yeah. I would probably, yeah, it would not be pleasant
 for anybody.
 I can't remember the 2026 budgeting around this, but have you increased these lines for
 the 2026? Did we? I hope so. Me too. Yeah, I hope so because I don't like coming here.
 We like it when you come here. I know, you're all great. Okay, thank you. But yeah, I hope
 I did. Okay, I'll do that.
 Are there any other questions on this item? Yes, Councilor Henry.
 Thank you, Madam President and Ms. Purdy. So just drilling into the facilities line again.
 So how long are our contracts on these utilities? Do we know that? Have we signed? For the Internet
 expenses, for example, is that contract that's locked in for the next year or two? Can we
 anticipate the cost on that a little better? What do we know about the utility?
 I really can't answer that question. I don't know. I'm sure Greg could tell you if he was
 present, but we don't have contracts on our electricity or on our gas.
 But there are multiple Internet service providers, right? I think maybe following some of what
 I've just heard is just concern about cost, obviously, and if we're getting the best value
 for money on something like an Internet service agreement or provider agreement. And yeah,
 that's all I would just add that looking ahead, we need to scrutinize the dollars like that
 in the future, I think. Thank you, Madam President. You're welcome. All right. I'm present. This
 is Greg Crowe. Oh, thanks, Ray. Oh, hello. Sorry. Yeah, I'm here on the stage. So yes,
 we are currently at a contract with Smithville for the largest of our holdings. We do have
 Comcast for some of them. Every time a contract comes up for renewal, we negotiate for that
 for price. And it also depends on proximity of which building we're talking about, which
 internet service provider can provide service to that location. So all those are taken into
 consideration as we go into the agreements. So I guess to say we should know or have a
 ballpark of what the anticipated cost is on an internet service providing contract next
 year. So I would not expect additional appropriations if we've got something in place, right?
 Correct. It depends on maybe for the internet. That's what I'm asking for on the internet.
 If it's specific to the internet, then that. But it's all the same line. So I could still
 be back for additional next year. Michelle, you had your hand raised. Yes, you were asking
 about the 2026 budgets and if she had increased the lines. And yes, she did. So she has increased
 them across all four of those lines that you're representing for 2026. It's because you met
 with your liaisons. It is. There you go. All right. I'm trying to find the line I was looking
 at a while ago. It's like 10 minutes ago. Having to do with the lawn care and so forth.
 I think I saw something from spoke with Vicki from the shelter and I think you indicated
 they would should remove that from their budget and you were going to the county was going
 to have somebody else go in to do some of that lawn care or something of the sort. Do
 you know what I'm speaking of? I think so. I do know that we have a contract with a lawn
 care provider for the Youth Services Bureau specifically and that will be budgeted into
 that was budgeted in the 2026 budget in the special it. It was. I thought we took it out.
 I don't know you you may have I mean I thought I thought it was removed because you were going
 to go and you know what that was probably a month or so ago. So generally how we or
 how I have been advised by councils in the past is that if an entity has its own funding
 source its own levy its own rates something then you have wanted that prior councils have
 wanted their expenses to be associated with with that fund. So that's why we put that
 in there. Right and and I expect it to be and that's the reason why I was questioning
 this I wondered if this was in any way including the dollars that should be paid for out of
 the services for the juvenile for for the Binkley house. Let us remind ourselves it
 is the Binkley house we're speaking at and I'm going to go to Michelle because she had
 her hand raised. Okay so within the lit special purpose there's different departments that's
 utilizing that the commissioners have have their own department and it's within the contractual
 amount that they budgeted for. So no it's not within the YSB department budget it's
 within the commissioners portion of the budget within lit special purpose. Which in all special
 purpose all of it every penny of it is tied to services for youth not for maintaining
 other departments and let's be clear about that and I've asked our county attorney to
 make sure that she's reviewed that and to make sure that we're holding clear to what
 that funding is for and why that is in place because I don't want anybody to think this
 and I'm not thinking the commissioners do because I don't think you do but this is not
 a slush fund for you know oh there's some money there let's move everything over there
 you cannot do that and I'll be the first one to go to the state and complain if we try
 to you because that money is for the youth of Monroe County I feel very strong about
 that okay all right do we note it and we got a thumbs up from Ms. Turner King then she
 is in agreement with that and she looked into it so without any further ado since we're
 out of time on this item if you have public comment on this item please come forward to
 the lectern here in the NatU Hill room or you can raise your hand via Teams and seeing
 none may we please have a roll call vote counselor Henry yes counselor Hawk yes counselor Crosley
 yes counselor Iverson yes counselor Deckard yes counselor Fiddle yes counselor Wilts yes
 motion passes seven zero all right next up is item L council I move to approve the commissioners
 request and fund 1138-0000 cumulative capital development for an additional appropriation
 of $305,000 in the services category and $142,078 in the capital category for a total appropriation
 of $447,078 second all right what would you like to add to this I would like to request
 a reduction in both of those lines for software I would request an additional appropriation
 of $143,318 and in this sheriff's vehicles $112,884 for a total of $256,202 council
 amend my agenda to those numbers okay do we need to say that numbers for the record Mr.
 Iverson meant motion or he meant his motion and not the agenda oh shoot thank you okay
 we had a second on that item second okay we got a motion in a second any further discussion
 on this anything y'all want to add I let Richard speak if he wants to sure about the sheriff's
 vehicles good evening council so the sheriff's vehicles unfortunately my 2024 order didn't
 come in until January of 2025 so to pay for those seven vehicles the 2024 dollars reverted
 back and then it came out of my 2025 budget so now that my 2025 vehicles are are near
 ready I'm short some money and need an additional appropriation we did find some money in some
 old bonds yeah we were able to make up the difference of a lot of that by using money
 and older bonds yep and I had that conversation with this party today so I'm gonna go down
 the line here I'm gonna go to counselor votes and then Decker I just wondered about the
 reduction for the software if you could tell us why we overpaid actually somehow we paid
 an invoice twice and so one of them is coming back so solve that problem all right my question
 is is the same thing that is the what was delaying sheriff's vehicles is that still
 out there in the world kind of slowing things down I don't think so we're supposed to have
 delivery of these vehicles by December 1st this year I don't anticipate this being an
 issue and they have up 24 and 25 sure we have all the 24s we'll have all the 25s this year
 and this is the when we look at kind of the purchase price that's them coming with the
 equipment they need for the deputies is that right right okay one thing I just not to belabor
 it because we got a long night but again I've talked a few times about costs that counties
 have now that our predecessors did not have similarly when you look at both software and
 things that go in sheriff's vehicles and you want both of those things but those are things
 that would not have been the same way years ago even this room I mean 10 years ago this
 room wasn't like this software wise for better or for worse and so counties in local governments
 continue to have things added on they did not have before cyber threats you name it
 and it's always something to kind of bear in mind is dollars don't always keep up with
 those things so thank you I'm gonna just go ahead down the line I'll go to Iverson and
 then Henry and it reminds me I want to piggyback off of what Councilman Decker was saying our
 conversation around your 2026 budget where your contractual line or I'm sorry the software
 line was one of the few that went up and it's just because of those licensing and the fees
 that are they're coming out at us and there's and so would you really appreciate you keeping
 on top of that and keeping all of us able to do our jobs that's great well thank you
 um yeah thanks for all that comment um I think my comments more about um this as we move
 forward with the budget on the go bonds and how we're using that resource I want to be
 cautious about how we say we found money somewhere moving forward I think I think part of the
 frustration we're having about moving things into capital that we really need to cover
 in this year's um budget um I appreciate that funds were found but I think we need um something
 a gadget I mean I don't know what we're going to do to make sure that we're not surprised
 by things like this in the future I mean there shouldn't be um found money within 11 years
 of general obligation bonds to pay for things we either have money that we've identified
 or obligated or not obligated and so it's just the housekeeping I think we're going
 to need to do as we enter lean times in the county that um we are account for this right
 but I'm glad we have it now but I think just as a forewarning for later this evening what's
 to come um I found money comment I think we just got to be cautious about moving forward
 but that's it thank you madam president thank you and as a reminder we are needing a vote
 on the amendment um council hawk did you have something to add yes um make this break uh
 when I hear you say it covers all of the expense of that vehicle but I would think there would
 still be an expense for whatever we do to uh with the paint everybody knows it's a law
 enforcement vehicle also the the lights that go across there's a lot of additional add
 ons to that and so remind us where that's covered in what budget so all of that is covered
 in the ccd budget the cumulative capital development budget which provides for not only the
 purchase
 of the vehicle but the outfit of said vehicle and that's going to include your lights and
 your decals and um everything everything except for cameras doesn't cover the cameras doesn't
 cover cameras uh communication equipment it doesn't cover the um computers correct it
 does not cover the computers the mounting systems with computers and the cars sorry
 this is greg all right so again as a reminder because we made the council iverson made them
 motion to amend the numbers that's what we are needing a vote on right now so um can
 we please have a roll call vote on that councillor iverson yes councillor wilts yes councillor
 hawke yes councillor cross crossley big part yes i'm so sorry councillor henry yes councillor
 dickard yes councillor fido yes motion passes seven zero okay now technically we're bringing
 it back to the overall um and it seems like we all depleted questions on that looking
 again see if anybody has any other questions yes councillor vital so one other expense
 i didn't hear talked about with vehicles was insurance so is that somewhere else in the
 budget i don't know where that is county general okay thank you okay um all right so if you
 have question or if you have a public comment rather on this item you can come forward to
 the lectern here in the night you hill room or raise your hand via teams and seeing none
 may we please have a roll call vote councillor hawke councillor crossley yes councillor iverson
 yes councillor dekert yes councillor vital yes councillor wilts yes councillor henry
 yes motion passes seven zero all right and that's it thank you thank you thank you voice
 of that you know um all right next up is item m from the legal department council i move
 to approve the legal department's request and fund 1000 dash zero two seven seven county
 general legal for an additional appropriation of eighty five thousand dollars in the services
 category second all right and we have mr schilling here welcome thank you just to be here um
 today we're seeking uh eighty thousand dollars in additional appropriation fifty for litigation
 deduction and 30 for settlement um with respect to the settlement amounts uh 25,000 of that
 is to pay a settlement agreement that we entered into in 2020 the county issued checks on that
 settlement agreement the checks were not cashed a couple years later we get a request for
 a reissue uh we reissued the checks and said uh you know we propose that we uh exchange
 these checks when the releases are signed the releases haven't been signed the checks
 sat there and lapsed again and in the meantime the the funds were removed from our budget
 so we're here tonight to get 25,000 dollars to reissue those checks hopefully for the
 final time uh the other amounts that we're seeking for uh settlement we have probably
 about 15,000 dollars in claims from for damages caused by uh snow plows and mowers and things
 like that uh we are working with highway to come up with sort of a program on how to analyze
 those claims to see which ones that were required to pay and uh we don't i don't think that
 all certainly all 15,000 will not be paid by the county but we did want to have some
 money there just in case uh with respect to to the litigation deduction uh we have now
 about uh 23,000 dollars of claims that we haven't paid yet and um 20 of that is for
 the last two months from uh from the insurance company so the bills from the insurance company
 for the last two months have been about 10,000 dollars a month and uh we have uh about eight
 cases outstanding with a deductible of 25,000 dollars per case uh so that's 200,000 dollars
 we've paid 50,000 towards those deductibles at this point so the maximum liability that
 we could be billed this year would be about 150,000 dollars don't think we'll even come
 close to that but we do want to have some money so we can stay on top of those bills
 one bit of good news uh since i filed this we had an appeal in the seventh circuit
 uh in the huff case uh and the oral argument was scheduled for the 18th
 and the estimate on that from our attorneys was about 20,000 dollars
 and uh we found out last week uh that the house voluntarily dismissed that appeal
 so that's going to save us some money and get rid of one of our lawsuits that has been out
 there for a while and that's that's about it um i was just going to ask as a point of clarification
 i think like um what has been advertised is the settlement you mentioned 30,000 but in our
 documentation and in our packets it says 35 was is it supposed to be 35 yeah on the request it does
 say 35 right so do you my mistake okay i just wanted to make sure like saving a little money
 or what okay all right so it's we do have about five thousand dollars existing in that line right
 now so um probably be fine okay all right council i move to reduce line three one two one four
 claims
 settlement to thirty thousand dollars all right we're going to motion in a second to reduce that
 line item from thirty five to thirty thousand uh any discussion on this item no but yes council
 henry just just a question for my own edification so on in the matter of the the settlement checks
 that are never cashed and reissued is there any statute of limitations on that or i presume if
 someone were deceased the estate could continue to pursue the settlement at what point does the
 check not get cashed and we i mean how does that work well the checks are valid for two years
 from the last month of the year that they're issued so that's that's why we have to issue new
 checks we actually just had a mediation in that case today and the opposing council is requesting
 the payment so he said fine we will get on that thank you we've always we've agreed to do it five
 years ago and we stand ready to do it today so all right any other further question on this councilor
 hawk i'm just glad the price didn't go up you know everything costs more every year that goes by so
 you saved us some money i guess yeah all right councilor decker i know just a quick one on our
 forest service efforts is that any of this or any discussion there now we uh we've paid our bills
 on
 the forest service case up to date and we made a payment this month on that it was a few hundred
 dollars we're kind of in limbo on that waiting for the court to rule uh so when the court rules the
 county will need to decide depending on what the ruling how it wishes to proceed but there's no
 timeline for that all right thank you it seems that we've been waiting quite some time on that
 one um was it since the spring am i right i don't remember
 march date is in my mind but i'm not i'm not quite sure and i recently heard
 that the forest service is moving forward with the things that we were trying to keep them from
 doing
 with the suit is that your understanding uh i i believe they're moving forward with some of the
 things and um i think that's a question that uh um we've been struggling with is to whether to
 file a preliminary injunction to stop that uh but the hope is that the court will come up with a
 decision soon and then save us that money because it it's pretty expensive we had did we file an
 injunction prior yes other yes and we and we prevailed on that yeah and uh the uh forest
 services response to that we think was inadequate and that's that's what this next stage of the
 lawsuit is about we're waiting on a decision on that wow okay well thank you for your work
 okay um and so again we are on the reduction and since there is a an amendment or yes um to reduce
 that line item so um we can do a voice vote for this got it all right since we are all here in
 person all those in favor of reducing um this line item to 30,000 signify by saying aye aye all
 those opposed same sign all right motion carries now coming back to the larger discussion of the
 actual topic again counselor hawk you have your hand raised yes as you might all remember um
 i was not the only council member but not everyone agreed on the disagreement with the forest
 service
 and so can you break that down under the litigation how much that would be so that
 i could support you and everything else other than that or should i just say no on this question
 yeah at this time all all our bills on that lawsuit have been settled
 and i don't know what the future billing will be if any um okay so i can safely vote for this
 without thinking i'm arguing with the united states government okay correct great thanks
 okay um anybody else have anything relevant to this okay all right um if you have public comment
 on this item please come forward to the lectern here in the night you hill room or you can raise
 your hand via teams and seeing none may we please have a roll call vote
 counselor crossley yes counselor iverson yes counselor dekert yes counselor vital yes counselor
 wilts yes counselor henry yes counselor hawk yes motion passes seven zero all right thank you very
 much thank you next up is item in which is from the courts
 council i move to approve the court's request and fund 22 zeros nope scratch that let me start over
 again i'm sorry council i move to approve the court's request and fund one two one three dash
 zero zero zero zero gal slash casa for an additional appropriation of fifteen hundred dollars in
 the
 services category all right and we have miss lisa abraham welcome thank you as luck would have it
 our casa program received another so third time i've been here for grants for casa for fifteen
 hundred dollars they have advised me there might be a fourth one coming so i'm waiting on that
 so i'm here tonight just asking for the appropriation of 1500 so that i can get that
 pass on to casa okay yay all right looking to the council here to see if anybody has any questions
 on this item congratulations okay seeing none um if you have public comment on this item we'll take
 it please come forward to the lectern here in the natu hill room or you can raise your hand via
 teams
 and seeing none may we please have a roll call vote councillor fiddle yes councillor dekert
 yes councillor henry yes councillor crossley yes councillor hawke yes councillor iverson yes
 councillor wilts yes motion passes seven zero okay next up is item o council i move to approve
 the court's request and fund 2200 dash 0000 alternative dispute resolution for an additional
 appropriation of five thousand dollars in the services category thank you all right we got a
 motion in a second and i feel like this was discussed last week yes this is what i warned
 you about last week so like i said we're basically down to nothing in this line so we're just
 asking
 to move the appropriate five thousand dollars because i do have 118 000 plus in that fund okay
 all right and does anybody have any additional questions on this item
 thing none we will take public comment on this item if you have public comment
 please come forward to the lectern here in the nightly hill room or raise your hand via teams
 and seeing none may we please have a roll call vote councillor dekert yes councillor feitel
 yes councillor hawke yes councillor henry yes councillor wilts yes councillor iverson yes
 councillor crossley yes motion passes seven zero okay all right thank you very much have a good
 night and next up is item p for parks that's cute council i move to approve the parks department
 request and fund four one one three dash zero zero zero zero donations parks for an additional
 appropriation of fifteen thousand and six dollars in the supplies category eighty two thousand
 four hundred four dollars in the services category and three thousand three dollars in the capital
 category second all right we have miss kelly whitmer here welcome oh thank you this should
 be very simple i'd like to amend my request zero out all of the lines except three zero zero zero
 six contractual for eighty two thousand four hundred that is the exact cash balance in the fund
 okay so you said zero everything except contractual right okay all right councillor iverson council
 i
 moved to zero out every line in this request except for line three zero zero zero six contractual
 which should be set at eighty two thousand four hundred dollars for a total appropriation of
 eighty two thousand four hundred dollars second all right we got a motion and a second any
 discussion
 on this okay and seeing none all those in favor of um councillor iverson's motion signify by saying
 aye aye all those opposed same sign all right motion carries now for the larger discussion
 wait are you to vote on it no that was for the yeah that was not that easy not that easy all
 right all right anything that you have to add that's exact cash balance in there okay all right
 council do you have any questions for miss whitmer yes councillor iverson i am really excited about
 this land i'm really excited what it's about to be do you have any updates for us or the public
 currently we are on hold um we have an interior park road that we've been taking care of we have
 to wait a few more months in order to start more the design in engineering on it so there's nothing
 i can share at this moment great thanks thought i'd ask anybody else all right so you have public
 comment on this item you can come forward to the lectern here in the nightingale room or you can
 raise your hand via teams and seeing none may we please have a roll call vote
 councillor fiddle yes councillor wilts
 yes councillor henry yes councillor hawke yes councillor crossley yes councillor iverson
 yes councillor dekert yes motion passes seven zero thank you yes indeed
 thanks have a good night next up is item q wastewater reduction council i move to approve
 the waste reduction district's request and fund 82 10 special solid waste management operating
 for an additional appropriation of fifty five thousand two hundred seventy six dollars in the
 capital category all right hello welcome good evening uh yeah unfortunately as you can see
 in the agenda request uh we have one of our vehicles involved in a motor vehicle accident
 declared a total loss by the insurance company uh this was one of the box trucks we use for
 our green business network recycling collection routes so it is something that we need to get
 replaced um you can see in the packet included the quote received from curry auto for that
 replacement vehicle which does match the amount of additional appropriation request
 we have received the insurance settlement funds of fifty three thousand nine hundred twenty four
 dollars and twenty five cents and as indicated in the agenda request the remaining would come
 out of our unappropriated funds or cash reserves for the insurance deductible and the difference
 in the purchase price i would just note for the record too that uh there were no no injuries
 in the accident and it appears to have been just that neither driver was cited for any moving
 violations it just was something that happened good thank you and glad to hear that everybody
 is okay all right look into council to see if anybody has any questions or comments from mr
 mclasper all right seeing none um okay so if we have public comment on this item you can come
 forward to the lectern here in the night you hill room or you can raise your hand via teams
 and seeing none may we please have a roll call vote councilor wilts yes councilor henry
 yes councilor hawk yes councilor crossley yes councilor iverson yes councilor deckard yes
 councilor fiddle yes motion passes seven zero thank you have a good night all right
 next all right next up is item r from the aviation department council i move to approve the
 aviation
 department's request in fund 4801-0000 aviation construction for an additional appropriation of
 thirty nine thousand five hundred dollars in the services category second all right and it looks
 like we have miss amy gurst online and if you are able to unmute you can go ahead and present
 it
 great miss gurst are you able to unmute tst is she able to unmute
 yes oh okay all right all right there i am okay yes we can hear you now go ahead
 sorry about that i got a new computer and it's a totally different process um go ahead
 so carlos sent his apologies he had another thing he had to go to and so he asked me to take care
 of
 this um we have two items that we've already signed contracts and ratified in the board meeting
 during the arpa project out here for stormwater and it was found that there were some depressions
 that came up and so carlos jumped on it and hired a couple companies to come out and
 evaluate those depressions the conditions and then another company to review that so um we're
 asking
 for an additional appropriation for thirty nine thousand five hundred dollars in contractual
 so we can pay for those
 okay all right and looking at council to see if anybody has any questions on this item
 looking over to my right first seeing none looking over to my left all right uh if anybody
 has public comment on this item you can uh raise your hand via teams or come into the
 podium here in the night u hill room and speak
 and seeing none maybe please have a roll call vote councilor henry yes councilor hawke yes
 councilor crossley yes councilor fido councilor wilts yes councilor dekker yes councilor iverson
 yes motion passes seven zero all right thank you very much have a good night thank you you too
 thanks next up is item s from employee services council i move to approve the employee services
 department's request and fund one thousand dash zero three zero nine county general employee
 services an additional appropriation of three million dollars in the personnel category
 all right hello all right um i just want to give you a little bit i sent you some information
 i'll give you a little quick rundown and then we can get into whatever questions that you have
 but to start i just wanted to say that over the past several years we've made a strategic effort
 to help keep the health insurance contributions low especially as we've seen a lot of challenging
 times in the last few years and we've the the county as a whole has seen an increase in the
 number of positions which has increased the number of employees eligible to enroll in the plan
 there's been a higher plan participation which means that more employees and dependents are
 enrolling in the plan which is increases our overall exposure and then over the last 12 months
 we've seen an increase in both volume and severity of our health insurance claims and so that's to
 manage those the pressures of of all of that that's why we're recommending or asking for
 an additional three million dollar appropriation now and we think that that combined with the
 current cash balance in the fund will cover the projected expenses for the rest of this year and
 give us a starting balance of our target goal of one and a half million for the start of 2026
 and we're requesting that that be appropriated in the employee services county general line
 in the self-insurance line to reduce the administrative burden that that would make
 on council and the auditor's office if we appropriated those in all of the department budgets
 and that that would require a lot of administrative work to do that so a little bit different than
 how
 we did it this year but would be the same for how we're doing it next year and moving forward
 and then starting the year with that reserve is important because it will allow us to meet
 that target rather than trying to build it through next year through that budgeting process of
 trying
 to build that up throughout the year if we start with the balance to begin with.
 The thing I'll say is that the plan and the fund have performed well for a long time
 and we've been able to maintain stability for the county and employees but now because of those
 increases that we are seeing that's the risk that we take on with being self-insured is that some
 years we have we are we have a good year in some years the last 12 months where we are not doing
 the way we would like to be doing so that's kind of a rundown of why we're asking for this in the
 way that we are asking for it and we're happy to answer any questions. Thank you and you all have
 been warning us for a while that this was coming and and now it's here so looking at the council
 and I see a first-hand council I ever said first of all I want to thank you for sharing the
 resources
 that you did a couple days ago that powerpoint pdf whatever it was the the charts that you
 put together to show the historical trends that just spiked in the past year uh really helped to
 show how variable this can be uh the second point that I found really helpful was starting on page
 16 I think yeah page 16 where you you kind of laid out eight or nine points about why exactly
 this is happening why it's happening now and I found that really helpful to not to kind of
 contextualize uh why this very large uh ask is being made now so thank you for putting the time
 and the effort into that and and I hope that other people are able to to read that as well sure and
 then if I could also just throw one other thing out there um so uh the apex is on the meeting um
 we've got a couple folks from there so if you have specific detailed questions that you would like
 to
 have answered they can um answer those questions for you okay thank you for letting us know they're
 there counselor hawke yes uh this should come as no surprise I've already mentioned it um
 that this is it's in my opinion quite wrong to put all of this in county general uh because that
 just reduces the amount of money that we have available uh people are still hoping to get
 something for cost of living rates and that three million is just coming out of the bucket
 oh because it would be an administrative nightmare to fix it well we pay a lot of people a lot of
 people to fix this administrative nightmare uh and and it's going to be going on
 next year as well because what we're doing is we're we're bringing in as you said there's more
 people in the plan and that's because we have so many different departments is so well we can't
 cover we're not going to have enough money to cover it we'll throw that over in county general
 somehow or the other a decision was sort of made outside of you know a major discussion about what
 this would do to county general not just this but just in general i'm not faulting you for that
 because this wasn't your choice this was just what it's come about but i think that if x dollars of
 this should go to the highway if x dollars of this should go uh to the health department or
 whatever
 it's three million dollars uh that's needed to make it whole and it is not all county general
 so i'm i'm putting that out there and i don't expect anyone to agree with me
 no one has to i still get to have that opinion because it's three million right out of that pot
 of money that we were hoping to try to make a move after bed when we're sitting there trying
 to figure out where we're going to get 20 000 here 10 000 there whatever this is three million
 got to say it counselor henry thank you uh madam president and maybe picking up on a little of what
 counselor hawk was talking about there are funds that we can't use that we're that pay employees
 in the county to cover insurance costs i think we're going to be talking about it later in the
 budget tonight with the surveyor's corner fund is something that came up in the past 48 hours that
 we are we are prohibited from billing or insurance to those funds and have to draw it for somewhere
 from those county employees so i guess maybe my question is how much of that's there's got to be
 more stories like that in the county so why we can't distribute the cost to other funds i mean
 maybe the auditor might have an opinion on that and maybe it does require that long-term detail
 analysis but they're just some places we couldn't some employees would not be able to get covered
 if
 we didn't do it this way i think is what i'm getting at is that right there is some grant funding
 for
 example that can't support the additional amount it wasn't budgeted for additionally as you know
 we're running things quite tight right now budget wise so there are some funds that simply can't
 support this additional funding particularly those larger departments um so it's just where do we
 pull
 it from so obviously the easiest place is always the general fund this is already in the 4b it's
 accounted for so we have been planning around the idea that this would come from the general fund
 however um i i guess i'm mistaken i thought there was kind of a consensus that that was sort of
 agreed to not not fully obviously but just that might be the best place to pull this from at this
 time because it was kind of unexpected and as things you know progress and as employee services
 shared while these we're getting some really expensive invoices you know and we need we need
 to move forward with um you know planning toward the end of the year um that's just where it could
 most easily come from i think my maybe wrap up comment would be this does seem like a conversation
 ripe for long-term government finance in the future that the cost of ensuring a graying workforce
 as
 well as the increasing illnesses that are affecting the younger population you know cancer hitting
 it
 under 40 uh for example um i think it's probably on a merit of longer conversation about how we're
 going to fund this long term but that's my observation for this evening on that thanks
 i appreciate that and i i mean there's lots of meetings that have happened since then but if i do
 mistaken the long-term finance committee meeting we did have this conversation with apex being here
 on a hot friday about it was i believe august eighth if i'm mistaken so we we did have that
 conversation and it was something that we were told that this was coming to council um ahead of
 time so if i again my memory is going sometimes but then i put on my readers and then i remind
 myself
 that we did have those conversations and we did so looking over here to see if anybody has any
 questions counselor dekker i i know people always get annoyed particularly on long nights when i
 have any recollection about when i was a little boy and being a child of a county employee
 but i will say this it is important it's very important and i want this message to get to our
 folks that we always as a council as a county government do our best to take care of our people
 as well as we can with things like this and i can recall days when vision care was not part of the
 solution for county employees and i can still see my mother one of our loyal county employees of
 many many years uh shoving cash out of a purse across the counter to a local optometrist for
 the very things that you see literally on my face when i was much smaller and i kind of gave her a
 hard time about it and said mom what's what you know why are you shoving all that cash out and she
 goes well the county doesn't cover that we've made progress in a lot of areas and if you want
 to keep good people you have to keep making progress uh the hard part of it is figuring
 all this out and how this all kind of works as we move into the future with all of our challenges
 all right anybody else on this side have any questions
 councilor wilson do you have something um no it's not we're out of time it's good i'm good i'm good
 okay all right um so if there since we are out of time on that i'm gonna look to see if there's
 any public comment on this item you can come forward to the lectern here the natu hill room
 or you can raise your hand via teams and seeing none maybe please have a roll call vote
 councillor hawke have councillor crossley yes councillor iverson yes councillor dekert
 yes councillor fiddle councillor wilts
 councillor henry yes motion passes six one okay next up is item t council i move to approve the
 employee service department request and fund seven four seven zero zero dash zero zero zero self-insurance
 for an additional appropriation of two million five hundred thousand dollars in the services
 category
 okay okay what would you like to add to this this is just to help us pay our what we're projecting
 our outstanding bills to be for the rest of the year okay pretty self-explanatory um seeing
 any questions here from council seeing chatter but no questions all right looking over here
 it's my left seeing none all right um public comment it is your terms so if you have any
 questions or public comment on this item you can come forward to the lectern here in the natu hill
 room or you can raise your hand via teams and seeing none may we please have a roll call vote
 we council hawk if you have a question that is related to this we have an opportunity we speak
 on this we have the question we are almost in the process of doing the excuse me yeah right
 excuse me i didn't hear you so i was just asking excuse me so i beg your pardon okay well i know
 you're all in a rush i'll just say no while you all say yes nobody's in a rush and so i really wish
 that we would not do that but okay while we are in the while i have the floor and i am chair and
 i am saying this what i'm saying is if we have a question during council question and comment to
 which i ask those questions we can ask them but if i see that nobody has any questions or comments
 then we go to public comment then we ask for a roll call vote so if you have it during that time
 i'm not ignoring you for any reason so there it is so again usually what we do we have question
 we have comment we have public comment and then we have a roll call vote so in that case we're
 moving to a roll call vote can we please have it councilor crossley yeah councilor iverson yes
 councilor deckard yes councilor fiddle yes councilor wills yes councilor henry yes councilor hawk
 no
 motion passes six one all right now we move on to item u council i move to approve the employee
 service department's request and fund one one eight six dash zero zero zero zero rainy day
 for an additional appropriation of one million two hundred fifty thousand dollars in the services
 category
 second all right what would you like to add to this so this is this is this is love it or leave
 it this is an idea for you to consider um we're just we want to this to be a collaborative effort
 with you to figure out how we move forward and um how we pay our bills if if necessary so we're um
 um we are open to whatever ideas and funding strategies you want that to look like moving
 forward this is an idea we threw out there it's not it's up to you i guess what i'm saying is
 that if if things continue to trend we're we're gonna look at 26 and plan for 26 as best we can
 if 26 goes in a direction that we're not happy with what is the mechanism for us to make sure
 we can pay something if if we get a million dollar bill that comes in that we need to pay
 and and we don't have that money in the fund all right and so i'm gonna look to my left and open
 this up for discussion here so i see first up we have counselor wilts yeah so i mean i maybe this
 is a really simplistic but i feel like we just deposited that three million to kind of be that
 and almost like that operating balance which we've had a lot of discussion about to kind of absorb
 those and and the other point is i recognize and i haven't i haven't had time to go through all of
 your presentation i'm pointing at my computer because it's pulled up and i've looked at a couple
 of things but from what i understand from what you've told us this isn't really so much of a
 we've looked over the past year and things have just been steadily climbing it's a we were like
 this and then it went up in like yeah one month and i it's not a trend i guess is where i'm headed
 that one month is not a trend i think it is a trend um okay tell me tell me more then um i do
 think it's a trend i do think that um the action that you guys are all taking today with the three
 million is fabulous and extremely helpful and um with our looking at history with projections
 we believe that that's going to be helpful for us but we cannot predict
 some of these really bad things that happen um so but to come back a little bit so i want to say is
 the um health that um health costs are going up just straight up going up and so um we do know
 that's a factor that's in play and i believe and apex can actually probably speak to this better
 than i can but um i think that there's a 15 increase um over the last year um just in general
 health care expenses um but going back to this particular item i don't think that we need this
 right now so that's what we're that's what i believe agreed yes
 i'll have another question but okay all right i'm gonna go down the line here so i'll go um start
 and
 looks like everybody got their hands ready so i'll go with council iverson first now i might be
 presaging what counselor uh henry is going to be talking about but this sounds a lot like what uh
 his comment was earlier uh in the the evening where we are going to continue to have these
 these costs uh the number the chart that i found really interesting was not the number the growth
 in employees but the growth of employees that are enrolling in the program has just gone up and up
 and up that is a fantastic thing we need to be providing health care for our people this is
 something that i'm very proud to be supporting we need to be paying those claims i'm i'm wondering
 if ideas like this might have merits uh before the ltf committee long-term finance committee
 uh that where we can flush out some of the the good from the the chaff and and kind of figure
 our way out there and clearly as as you pointed out and and in your your presentation pointing
 my computer to what councillor willis was uh there's a lot of data here so i there's a lot of
 ways we can get out of this there's a lot of ways we can plan for the future and i'm excited to
 listen to those conversations yes councillor thank you um i appreciate that the comment was made
 that
 maybe this isn't necessary uh at this point um because i'm not feeling great about the past two
 votes it's like i ate a whole cheesecake here that's it's a big sugar rush of five million
 plus here and i'm sure we'll be costing health insurance for that comment um and i'm not switching
 into a red tie at the end of the table here either with the my councillor to the right but i will
 say
 that um i will but i will say this i mean the cost here is is concerning right and and and the the
 the health insurance challenge is a constant garden like once we've got it you know we have
 to revisit it immediately because things get weedy obviously um and that's where my heartburn is
 with
 all this tonight is is this it's an understanding of that that we offer this as a benefit you know
 and i yeah i i think this is the the the thing we have to take back to long-term government finance
 to figure out because this is taking a larger and larger bite out of her overall and unless we see
 some dramatic shifts in the workforce or you know a miracle for curing certain things that are plaguing
 our community or iu health bringing its costs down where the majority of our employees are going to
 get services in the community in that monopoly and how it's tapping our community here this is
 a significant challenge um significant challenge so i i got i know i'm pontificating on this line
 item um you know at this point i'm a no for another you know a hit here in the uh the sugar rush
 here
 if you will but um we do need to revisit this holistically this was a lot to make up for a
 huge cost thrown at us at the end of the year here that i know is not you know your fault but
 but we won't be able to sustain those kind of shocks as the the tax um revenue continues to
 decline over the next two fiscals and so it should have all of our attention tonight
 thank you honor president thank you can i speak just want to make sure all right you can speak
 yes absolutely at this point if we included this we've been asked to spend what six million
 seven hundred fifty thousand dollars today out of our limited funds that we're trying to figure out
 whether or not there's going to be other dollars to get through our budgeting system now i
 understand
 you're saying well maybe you won't need this out of the rainy day because really moving it out of
 rainy day you may as well just take it right out of the bottom because we can move something out of
 randy anytime but this has got to be addressed and yes we talked about it and long-term financing
 what he said was we could expect that insurance costs would go go up he didn't say take a look
 you're going to be looking at six million dollars so i mean i know this is going to be making you
 sick too i mean if it's not then it should be everybody who looks at this and tries to figure
 out how we're going to provide services how we're going to take care of our employees
 and and where are we going to see the reductions this is huge
 now you can speak okay thank you um and and i i agree with you all um uh this is something that
 we are actively monitoring with apex and we have a lot of strategies that we can implement
 to try and save us some costs in some areas before we have to impact employees so we're
 going to exhaust all of those efforts um to to find where we can get some savings
 before we change anything planned wise
 okay yes councillor vitale let me just ask a fundamental question so it's self-insurance has
 it always been self-insurance as long as i've been doing this it has been yes and do you remember
 further back than that has it been since you remember always been self-insurance yeah it
 used to be by a percentage um it was based on that percentage was determined by council like say 13
 percent and then the salaries of your employees were multiplied by that 13 percent and that's how
 that number came to be um that's what i first started and then that became um difficult for
 departments who maybe had higher paid employees and they were burdened with more of that coming
 from their budget um often or non-self so non-self insurance um my understanding is it might be you
 don't have much control over costs um if you have a good year you don't get anything out of it
 if you have a bad year you might still have more problems whereas with the self-insurance although
 it's more of a roller coaster ride if you will we do actually get to save money through the plan
 overall because some years are better than others i see Kate giving me a look like yeah yeah that's
 that's the gist of being self-insured versus fully insured yeah so it's a long history so um any
 ideas
 from you or others here who may know what other counties may do with insurance for their employees
 yes they represent yeah other counties i'm just curious if anyone might have no
 yeah they were online so somebody from apex wanted to chime in here maybe gone oh i don't see oh
 somebody hand is raised um looks like brandy pardo so you can unmute and you can go ahead
 and have the floor
 thank you thank you guys can you hear me okay yes wonderful so i do have some other county clients
 um we do have some self-funded clients we have some fully insured clients
 unfortunately most of the clients on our state are running into the same struggles that Monroe
 county government is running into and that is that the medical insurance and costs are rising
 there has been um a very steady rise in that but it's getting to the point where counties
 as you guys are budgeting and you're in the state is um limiting those funds that are coming in
 the struggles to be able to budget your medical expenses um are a little tougher this year
 and we have seen that across a lot of our clients within the state so you are not the only county
 that um is having some of these same struggles
 so can i follow up yes so um what about numbers of counties that actually do provide one
 or the other which is self-insurance or some other plan that would be based on
 a stable cost at least for one year right it may change the next year
 well we do have some counties some of the larger counties you'll see like yourself are self-funded
 and run really good self-funded plans with the ability to control what the plan design is to
 have those rebates and the reimbursements on the back end or keep some of that money on those good
 years but there are also small counties who do the fully insured and unfortunately with the
 fully insured plans you run into where you have pooling those fully insured rates where there's
 no control over what increases you're getting because fully insured rates that are coming back
 from the carriers are a little more non-negotiable than that of a self-funded plan
 but am i correct in thinking that that rate would be stable for that insurance plan year is that
 correct well the stability rate yes i mean you have set um premiums that you're going to pay
 every single month what you don't have access to is your claims data to see what your
 claims looks like from month in there's a huge lag in being able to get that information to be
 able to budget according to you know where your your fund or where your plan is going
 and and how it's how it's performing could i just ask a clarifying question i think are you asking
 if it would make sense for us to toggle between being self-funded and fully insured to help us
 control costs like could we just decide next year to be fully insured to control some of our costs
 i don't know i'm looking for the best deal for the service we get right and i think that i i would
 let brandy i don't think that that's uh i wouldn't say that's a good option but i would let brandy
 speak to that if she what she thinks when we look at your premiums and what you base your
 projections on we look at basing those off your expected costs so your projections and pe's are
 based off the expected costs if you went to a fully insured plan we would be basing those off of
 your
 max cost what is that max liability going to be and the cost could be exponentially higher
 especially since we're not things are are higher right now so they wouldn't see that's a lot of
 risk right so that's some good clarification thank you yeah and i see it looks like maybe
 somebody else from apex um john goss i hope i'm saying your last name right as their hand raised
 as well able to unmute can you hear me yes we can hear you uh good evening uh yeah this is john goss
 and i'm the president and a founder of apex benefits and we we do a lot of work with counties
 we've been endorsed by the association of indiana counties for for almost 20 years and we work with
 cities towns counties the reality on the fully insured versus self-funded in indiana it's very
 rare for an employer with over 100 employees to be fully insured and that's basically because
 the insurance companies are not really going to pay your claims
 if they're just going to add their their cost of doing business their retention on top of your
 claims cost so it's a lot more cost effective to be self-funded and and as as indicated
 unfortunately
 this is the 2025 i was just reading is the highest health care increase in cost in the last 15
 years
 so um um you know if uh if you know misery loves company there's there's lots of company out there
 okay thank you thanks
 anybody else have any other questions
 oh counselor welts i'm looking at the um document that you provided as you can tell
 um and you listed or whoever wrote this listed um possible strategies to contain rising insurance
 costs without reducing employee benefits um a lot of those look like they reduce employee benefits
 but i might be defining things differently but like um you know pharmacy benefit management
 changes yeah so that's that that is just an administrative thing that we would take on so
 there have been some changes in and things that we can sort of bid out who manages our our pharmacy
 we aren't we're aren't sort of stuck with working with anthem on that we were yes and now we can
 we can explore other options and pharmacy is one of the highest costly things that we're
 experiencing
 so that is a strategy that we're going hopefully planning to explore with apex to see if that can
 reduce some of our costs but that impact what prescriptions were okay that's you know where i'm
 yeah our plan and what we cover on our plan would stay the same it's just kind of how who manages
 the
 the pharmacy not offer an hdhp plan now because one of those said steerage toward hdhp we do
 but that plan in theory costs us less because of the way that that's structured that higher
 deductible employees are paying more for that and so we can incentivize that we have incentivized
 that in the past that's how we've gotten to where we are at i think it grows every year with the
 number of employees that are on that but we can look at ways to explore that and is that are these
 things that you can change i mean maybe not for 2026 but the you can do you can change yeah 2027
 would be the the plan for implementing some of these things i will tell you that Seth and i
 are really working on employee education will help reduce a lot of costs there are a lot of people
 using iu health and and i would say that that is an increase to the employee and to us much more
 significantly than if employees were willing to explore other options in indianapolis i mean i
 think here angie and i both had surgeries this year and the cost we both did not have it in
 bloomington and and that cost is was reduced significantly because we sought other locations
 so i mean i we are also exploring some direct provider options with our clinic the clinic is
 really managing a lot of things where there i mean just the clinic was seeing some high incidences
 of
 sleep apnea and so people needed to go and get studies for that and that was really costly to the
 employee and the plan and so we've explored a direct a way for us to further do a direct cost
 to a specific provider that reduced how much the employee and the plan is paying for a sleep apnea
 test that's appreciated yes yes exactly and so that's that's a small number of people but
 there are other things like that that we can explore that would impact much larger numbers
 of our population on the plan thank you does that help okay yeah okay does anybody else have any
 question or comments counselor decker i was just going to offer on this line it sounds like we've
 been told that no action tonight keep this on your radar um i'm going to offer that we table this
 indefinitely uh accordingly and i think we've certainly taken strong action tonight but uh
 madam president i'll move to table this indefinitely second okay we got a motion and a second to
 table
 this item indefinitely is there any further questions on comments on this particular motion
 looking around and make sure all right i'm gonna play my county council card and reverse it back
 to me all right um next so if we don't have any questions um we can do a voice vote um all those
 in favor of tabling this item indefinitely signify by saying aye aye all those opposed same sign
 all right motion carries all right thank you very much um next up would be item number 10 which is
 the 2026 budget reviews however um i think we definitely uh need a break here so i would like
 to um recess and come back at uh let's see what time is it um 7 40 so we are going to recess until
 7 40 okay all right all right next up is item 10 which is the county council business which is
 the 2026 budget reviews and over the past several weeks council began the 2026 budget reviews with
 all of the departments and um last thursday september 11th was the last of the um department
 hearings and so tonight is the opportunity for everybody to um as we discussed last thursday
 anybody that wanted to open up budgets to kind of go back and review that is the will of the
 council
 and council would be able to do that i do want to point out that there is going to be a um the
 public hearing where public can make public comment on september 30th um and that is september 30th
 right here in the net you hill room starting at five o'clock anybody that wants to make public
 comment on the 2026 items um you would be able to do so at that time you can do so here in a net
 you
 hill room or you would be able to attend via teams and make those or um you know if you can't do
 either one you can definitely always email all of the council members to let us know your concerns
 as well so with that being said um i know that uh miss shell had some amendments that she had um or
 some things that we needed to change here and so we just need to go back and go through those first
 since those seem to be pretty easy and then we'll get into the meat and potatoes because we also
 need to come back from the item that we tabled earlier with um the health department so what
 i'd like to do is we'll get through those um small amendments with michelle first then i'd
 like to open it back up and have the health department come in and then we'll proceed with
 the opening of 2026 budgets so everybody all on the same page man president just point information
 for the public so so we're working through michelle's amendments now we're moving back
 to your tape your item that you amended to the end of the health department and then we're coming
 back together to go into opening up additional budgets okay got it okay thank you you're very
 welcome does anybody else have any questions or comments of what was discussed yes
 we're gonna do the health tabled item before we talk about overall what we're doing with health
 yes did you have another suggestion to that when i when i suggested tabling it i was thinking that
 it would it would come after item 10 at the end of item 10 it's because what we decide to do
 during our discussions might impact what we want to do on that one item i'm sorry that's what i
 meant i don't know how it happened but that's what i meant so from my understanding then you want
 to
 have we open up the budget conversations first and then we'll get into the health department
 okay well we'll open up the health department and everything and i don't know i assume that'll be
 part of the discussion because we're going to probably make changes on across lots of
 departments correct and council henry so just for the you know just for those individuals waiting
 to come back to the table are we saying that it might be a few hours before we get to the health
 department again or are we because it could be a bit um i just want to be clear on that i mean yep
 yeah okay okay so um okay so then i would suggest i'm not moving any faster um or anything like
 that
 this is a big deal that we are all tasked and we knew that we were needed to do this but i do
 understand that we have folks awaiting and i want to be respectful of their time as well since we
 tabled their item to come towards the end of this and they're sitting here waiting so that being
 said
 does anybody else have any other questions or concerns about the order of what we are about
 to do council iverson may i uh recommend that instead of opening up all of the budgets maybe
 in order to help folks get home that we open just the health budgets and to have that conversation
 so that other folks don't have to sit here and listen to everything else that we're doing tonight
 so would you recommend from my understanding are you saying that after we're done with our
 amendments
 then we go into the opening of the 2026 budgets you would open up 2026 first with the health
 department and then you would get into um the table that you understand me correctly okay
 does everybody else understand that okay yes counselor vital so i have a person here who would
 like to speak about something i'm going to open up in the regular budget part as well so it's
 not just the health department that's here okay but we don't have public comment on well i'm
 going to do my best okay okay all right okay so does everybody understand and are okay with this
 yes okay i heard some chatter down there i wasn't sure if anybody had any questions okay so moving
 forward i'm going to look to counselor iverson and then we're going to go ahead and get started
 uh council uh this is item 10a i moved to open budget 1000-0380 county general jail
 and make the following amendment increase account line 34100 medical services to one thousand six
 thousand six hundred one million six hundred seventy five thousand two hundred seventy seven
 dollars
 second okay are there any questions on this item yes is it too much to ask to have these budgets
 portrayed on the screen or is that too fast no just give me one moment yeah okay i if it's an undue
 burden it helps me um make sure i'm reading things right if i can look at it too
 do
 i just got to get it set up so
 thank you michelle
 Okay, so we are talking about this line right here, which is the medical services.
 During the budget sessions, the sheriff and them lowered that amount.
 But they also forgot to include something in that amount.
 So it's still going to be a little lower than what they were talking about.
 So this is just to, it's that amount that you see, which is 1,525,277 plus another $150,000,
 which is the cost of the pool.
 So you received an email from them with regards to why we need to make this amendment with
 regards to the medical services in the jail.
 What's the new amount? 1,675,277.
 Okay, is there any other further questions or comments from council?
 Looking to my right.
 Seeing none.
 Looking to my left.
 Also seeing none.
 All right, may we please have a roll call vote?
 Councillor Decker?
 Councillor Decker?
 Oh, yes.
 Councillor Fiddle?
 Yes.
 Councillor Wilz?
 Yes.
 Councillor Henry?
 Yes.
 Councillor Hock?
 Yes.
 Councillor Crosley?
 Yes.
 Councillor Iverson?
 Yes.
 Motion passes 7-0.
 Okay, next up is...
 My understanding is that 10B no longer needs to be read.
 Yes, yes it does because you've got to reduce it to zero.
 Understood.
 Thank you.
 Just for a, may I ask a point of clarification before I read this?
 Every council member should have the 2026 budget session amendments.
 Council member Hock, you should have this as well.
 This is what I'm reading from.
 Okay.
 Great.
 All right.
 Item 10B.
 Council, I move to open budget 1000-0005 County General Sheriff and make the following amendment.
 Reduce account line 30025 maintenance to zero.
 Second.
 Okay.
 Any other discussions on this item, Michelle?
 We got a clarifying email.
 We've been working on consolidating some account lines together.
 This account line was among that list, and with that, per the Commissioner's administrator,
 anything maintenance with regards to the building is actually done through their budget.
 So this does not need to be in their general fund budget.
 Okay.
 All right.
 You're looking to my left.
 Yes.
 Councilor Wilks.
 Is the sheriff and jail commander [audio cuts out]
 I don't know.
 No.
 Can you hear me now?
 Yes.
 Yes.
 That information was received this afternoon from Angie Purdy.
 I'm unaware if they have that information.
 Okay.
 But what was relayed is that it's already budgeted in the commissioner's budget.
 Right.
 As I recall from two to three years ago when current administration in the sheriff's office
 took over, they had a lot of back and forth about maintenance and who pays for it.
 And I believe that their result was that the sheriff really wanted to have some of their
 own maintenance funds so they could get things done that day if they needed to and didn't
 have to go all the way through everybody to change a light bulb.
 And honestly, I remember that was the example.
 I'm not kidding.
 And, I mean, I don't -- what's it -- what's the budget -- what's the line right now?
 $500,000?
 This was just a recommendation that I received, so it's totally up to you guys.
 Yes, Councilor.
 If we -- let's say we vote yes on this and then we get some other further comment from
 any multitudes of people about it, we have time to come into this again?
 Yes, you do.
 We'll have up to September the 30th at the public hearing, so you've still got time.
 One thing is, I believe -- if I may -- I believe in the spirit of this evening, there's going
 to be a lot flying and elbows kind of going all over the place, and so I -- given that
 and noting what Councilor Wilt said, my belief is that we move forward, but just be nimble,
 and I suspect that's going to be the season for us for next few years anyway.
 Okay.
 Yes.
 Councilor Hawke.
 Okay.
 What we're talking about here is a duly elected official who's overseeing his budget, he presented
 the budget to us, and I am not at all comfortable to take something away that's not even been
 discussed with him when he made his point, the reason why he needed this line, and that
 was like three years ago when it all had to do with putting lipstick on a pig.
 And for those of you who aren't here, those of us who are, and it's just important to
 leave that there.
 And we can always take it off.
 You know, it's just as easy to take it off later as it is, you know, if we all agree
 to do that.
 >> Councillor Henry.
 >> Thank you.
 Do we have Ms. Purdy's actual, like, does she write us in writing what the details are
 for this?
 I mean, other than saying at her request or per Angie Purdy?
 What does she say?
 Because I tend to -- I'm inclined to agree with Councillor Hawke on that one.
 For Angie Purdy, Sheriff and Weights and Measures do not need 33050 lines.
 She says that these can be zeroed out if they intend to use them for fleet maintenance.
 This was read verbatim to Angie, and she agreed with the verbiage.
 >> Read verbatim to Angie.
 From who?
 >> It was a phone conversation between myself and Angie earlier today, and that was what
 I wrote down from the email.
 >> Okay.
 >> I typed it out.
 I read it back to her.
 I just copied it on the email.
 >> I'm happy to hear more.
 >> Yeah.
 The auditor has her hand up.
 >> I very clearly remember the conversation that Councilor Wilts is referring to as well,
 and this is a minimal amount, so we're just simply relaying the information.
 It's not necessarily a recommendation.
 >> Okay.
 Thank you, Madam President.
 >> Okay.
 Thank you.
 And just to be clear, like, if we could technically, like, hypothetically speaking, we could
 withdraw
 the motion, and then at the public hearing on the 30th, this is something that we can
 bring back to.
 So we'll probably -- I would -- I would feel comfortable in doing that because he has made
 it explicitly clear, you know, his role and whatnot, and I don't want to step on the toes
 of anybody for that matter, and definitely not the sheriff.
 So I guess I would recommend -- well, yeah.
 So I move to table this discussion item and reopen it back on September 30th, 2025.
 Second.
 All right.
 We got a motion and a second to table this item.
 So again, this is to table this item so that we can check with the sheriff to make sure
 that he would be okay with this.
 And then we can reopen this back at the 30th for the public hearing.
 Does anybody have any other questions or comments related to this motion?
 Who's seconded?
 Thank you.
 All right.
 So any other further discussion?
 Okay.
 Yes.
 All those in favor of table in this item until September 30th, signify by saying aye.
 Aye.
 All those opposed, same sign.
 All right.
 The motion carries.
 This is item 10C.
 Council, I move to open budget 1175-0000, jail misdemeanant and make the following amendment.
 Reduce account line 30025 maintenance to zero.
 Create account line 38,000 services, maintenance, repair, buildings/grounds and set it to $30,000.
 Reduce account line 34300 com repair/services to zero.
 Create account line 38010 services, maintenance, repair/equipment and set it to $10,000.
 All right.
 We got a motion and a second.
 Any other discussion on this item?
 Yes.
 Council, I represent.
 On the third line, we're reducing 34300.
 What does COOMM stand for?
 Is that communication?
 I believe computer.
 No.
 It's commissioners, I'll bet.
 Yes, we believe it's commissioners, but there's no solid understanding that it's 100% factual
 on that.
 That's why we are removing the line.
 Understood.
 Okay.
 We reached out to the jail with regards to this in amending these, and they did agree
 that for these adjustments, so they were fine with amending to the new account lines.
 Okay.
 And I thought I saw another hand.
 Council, did you have your hand?
 I was just going to say that is what was just sent to us today, the back and forth of that.
 I think you have a copy of that, Kate.
 No, just me.
 Yeah.
 Right?
 Right.
 I inquired about this.
 I only copied my co liaison and the council office, and Kim said that we had talked about
 these reductions in the original budget session, and that we were set, and they said, okay,
 that's our understanding too.
 So this part's good, and no, nobody else was copied on it for, you know, reasons that are
 up.
 Also, Madam President, the reason for the back and forth was as well.
 Something to do with the what was entered in the four B and aware where the revenue went
 for jail for the money that we expect to get for jail occupancy, the reimbursement from
 the state that they just allowed and, and I responded saying, I think that's already
 in the four B for the general fund.
 Well, then somehow the other they started talking about the four B for this fun, but
 I do believe that that that that money coming in for reimbursement is to go into the general
 fund and has already been accounted for in the miscellaneous revenue in the general fund.
 Would it have been already accounted for when we didn't know we were getting it?
 We always get it.
 We had to make an adjustment and I believe that Jordan sent in with the and I sent a
 message to him saying, what did he turn in for what he believed was going to be the revenue
 for next year.
 But this is going to be an adjustment for revenue for this year because he said they
 already got it.
 They got it on Monday.
 How much Monday?
 So we need to find out how much they got on Monday.
 If we need to adjust that miscellaneous revenue on the four B.
 All standard reimbursements have been accounted for.
 So I will double check with the department, but I believe it's in there.
 Okay.
 All right.
 Is there any other further discussion on this item?
 All right.
 Seeing none.
 All those in favor.
 Well, no voice or can I do a roll call vote, please?
 You're not changing any of the amounts, you're just shifting them from one account line to
 another.
 Okay.
 So I legal do you, is it okay to do a voice vote?
 You're reducing.
 Do a roll call just in case.
 Yeah.
 Okay.
 So we'll do, we'll do a roll call vote.
 Thank you.
 Okay.
 You're welcome.
 Thank you.
 Councilor Wilts?
 Yes.
 Councilor Henry?
 Yes.
 Councilor Hock?
 Yes.
 Councilor Iverson?
 Yes.
 Councilor Decker?
 Yeah.
 Councilor Feidl?
 7-0 passes.
 Okay.
 Next up 10-D.
 Council I move to open budget 1000-0308 County General Weights and Measures and make the
 following amendments.
 Reduce account line 26400 uniforms to zero.
 Create account line 22218 Clothing and Uniforms and set it to $600.
 Reduce account line 30025 maintenance to zero.
 Second.
 All right.
 Is there any questions from the council on this item?
 Yes.
 Councilor Hock?
 Well, since Weights and Measures is directly under the commissioners and if the commissioners
 are saying to make the change, they don't have as much a problem with changing something
 if you see what I'm saying, there is a difference.
 Understood.
 All right.
 Anybody else that has any questions or comments on this item?
 All right.
 Seeing none.
 May we have a roll call vote.
 Councilor Feidl?
 Yes.
 Councilor Decker?
 Yes.
 Councilor Iverson?
 Yes.
 Councilor Wilz?
 Yes.
 Councilor Crosley?
 Yes.
 Councilor Henry?
 Yes.
 Councilor Hock?
 Yes.
 Motion passes 7-0.
 Next item.
 I move to open budget 4005-0000 Convention Center operating and make the following amendments.
 Reduce account line 30056 contracts to zero, create account line 3006 contractual and set
 it to $531,300.
 Second.
 All right.
 Council, do we have any questions on this item?
 Looking to my left.
 Councilor Wilz?
 What is this item?
 What are we doing?
 We are changing the contractual line.
 I know what it says.
 Did we talk about this during budgets?
 What was talked about during budgets was that the auditor's office along with the council
 and certain departments were combining and eliminating lines so that we have cleaner
 budgets so that if we want to print a report with regards to contractual, we're not all
 over the place trying to figure out where all the contractual lines are.
 That's great.
 That's what this is.
 Yes.
 That's what I need.
 Where does this come from?
 Got it.
 That's what this is.
 This portion that we're working on is cleaning up those lines so that when you guys ask for
 a report, we're only doing one number instead of 10.
 Any other questions?
 We have spoken with the convention center and they know that this is happening.
 Okay.
 Okay.
 Thank you for that.
 Looking to my right and seeing if anybody has any questions.
 No?
 All right.
 Seeing none, can we please have a roll call vote?
 Councilor Decker?
 Yes.
 Councilor Crosley?
 Yes.
 Councilor Hawke?
 Yes.
 Councilor Wilts?
 Yes.
 Councilor Feidl?
 Yes.
 Councilor Iverson?
 Yes.
 Councilor Henry?
 Yes.
 All right.
 Next item.
 This is 10f.
 Council, I move to open budget 1000-0068, county general commissioners, and make the
 following amendments.
 Reduce account line 20016, commissioner supplies to zero, and create account line 20001, office
 supplies, and set it to $3,600.
 Second.
 All right.
 Anything to add to this, Michelle?
 No, we're the only ones that are using this line, and it's all for office supplies.
 So we're just making it all uniform.
 Okay.
 All right.
 Any, I'm going to look over here to my right if anybody has any questions.
 And we talked about this when we met with them to go over their budgets and noted that
 we wanted to clean some of this up.
 Any other further discussion on this item?
 Go on once, go on twice.
 Okay.
 May we please have a roll call vote?
 Councilor Henry?
 Yes.
 Councilor Hawk?
 Yes.
 Councilor Feidl?
 Yes.
 Councilor Wilkes?
 Yes.
 Councilor Crosley?
 Yes.
 Councilor Iverson?
 Yes.
 Councilor Pickard?
 Yes.
 Motion passes 7-0.
 Okay.
 Next item.
 This is 10G.
 Council, I move to open budget 1000-0161 County General County Buildings and make the following
 amendments.
 Reduce account line 3004 repairs, equipment/vehicle to zero, and create account line 38010 service
 maintenance repairs equipment and set it to $1,500 second all right any questions on this item
 looking to my left seeing none looking to my right seeing none um can we have a please a roll call
 vote
 counselor wilts counselor dekert yes counselor fidel yes counselor hawk
 counselor crossley yes counseling henry counselor iverson yes motion passes seven zero all right
 next item this is item 10h council i moved to open budget 1138-0000 cumulative capital development
 and make the following amendments reduce account line 30067 building repair and maintenance to zero
 and create a count line 38 000 service maintenance repairs building slash grounds
 and set it to 500 000 dollars second all right any questions counsel on this item
 looking to my left looking to my right counseling henry what was um what was the last fiscal year
 appropriate for this one or is it brand new what can you scooch over yeah i mean was this uh
 what was the previous year's on this or is it sorry is it new
 i got it and i can see it okay so what was the rationale for the 200 000 increase even
 if we're moving it does anyone recall it's a lot of trees
 does anyone have any notes on the 200 000 increase on this item from last year
 oh
 it looks like michelle is trying to look up something here so i'll give her a minute
 I'm happy to take I mean do you need a moment to look because I
 may have an amendment here
 apparently there wasn't a discussion regarding any of the count lines
 and the president i have an amendment for this i'd like to go ahead and reduce down to
 this line item to three hundred thousand dollars at zero basing it until we can get
 a future discussion on this appropriation second all right we got a motion and a second
 to reduce this item to three hundred thousand is there any other further discussion
 I would just like to say that in general what we're seeing what we're looking at does not
 tell us what we need to know because we're reducing one line but doesn't say how much
 it is it's just saying we're reducing it to zero it could have been 500 could have been 100
 so this is something that hopefully will not do it this way if I may yes that was what was
 confusing
 me at first but it seems that these are still just really changing the names of the the lines
 again that's that was the intent so it's just changing the names the original motion didn't
 change the amount but counselor Henry is saying yes but last year that amount was two hundred
 thousand dollars less which is a sharp eye I do think this is the same perhaps line that we just
 talked about earlier in this meeting and it's not okay okay is it gone yeah okay cool um so we did
 just do an additional appropriation for this year and that's when I kind of went back and was like
 okay she did ask for more this year because she needed more this year all right thanks for coming
 to my TED talk I don't know what the point is either either we reduce it and say come back next
 year again that's fine yes I'm good with that as as I should yeah my amendment stands I'm not going
 to speak anymore all right okay so is there any other further discussion on this amendment
 seeing none all those in favor of um counselor Henry's amendment signify by saying aye
 aye all those opposed same sign all right motion carries next item oh we need to vote in the
 underlying please oh yeah that's right okay can we have a roll call vote on that item counselor dekert
 yes counselor wilts yes counselor hawke yes counselor iverson yes counselor crossley yes
 counselor henry yes counselor final yes motion passes seven zero next item this is item 10 i
 council i move to open budget 1000-0106 county general t s d and make the following amendments
 reduce account line to 1005 repair and maintenance supplies to zero create account lines 20700
 supplies maintenance repairs equipment and set it to seven thousand dollars second all right we got
 a motion and a second any questions from council on this item looking to my left and looking to my
 right none may we please have a roll call vote counselor final yes counselor hawke yes counselor
 henry yes counselor dekert yes counselor crossley yes counselor iverson yes counselor wilts yes
 motion passes seven zero okay next item this is item j council i move to open budget 1000-0009
 county general prosecutor and make the following amendments reduce account line 30025 maintenance
 and set it to zero create account line 33050 service maintenance repair fleet and set it to
 three thousand dollars second all right we got a motion and a second is there any questions
 on council from this item looking to my left seeing none and looking to my right
 yes counselor is the prosecutor aware of this yes thank you any other questions over here to my
 right
 other questions
 okay are y'all ready because we're about to okay just want to make sure all right we're
 going to go into a roll call vote please counselor wilts yes counselor henry yes counselor crossley
 yes counselor fiddle yes counselor dekert yes counselor hawk yes counselor iverson yes
 motion passes seven zero next item this is item k council i move to open budget 1000-0307 county
 general fleet and make the following amendments reduce account line 38020 replacement repair to
 zero and create account line 33050 services maintenance repairs fleet and set it to fifteen
 thousand dollars all right we got a motion in a second is there any questions on this item
 looking to my right madam president yes yeah so can we get a look at last year's on this one as
 well yeah thanks for scooting over okay so plus 16 yeah we reduced slightly anyway okay thank you
 you're welcome any other clarifying questions and comments over here to the right
 and to the left councillor wilts i don't know if this is where this should come up but i'm
 just seeing this repetition of the same kind of repair and maintenance for vehicles
 in these different departments would it make sense to have like a general rule of x amount per
 vehicle based on age i mean some little formula and this is what you get and we don't have to
 think about it i'm tired yes i'm gonna go to council hawk and then i'll go to councillor
 henry next yes i'd just like to say that in the past i know nobody wants to hear the past
 but such a question we used to have used to have a fleet committee and the repairs we had a repair
 shop out the highway department and there was a a very qualified person who could do the repairs
 on a whole lot of things then they determined that maybe it was not as cost effective and so
 they pulled it back out of there but all of fleet was under a fleet budget so just thought i'd
 throw
 that out there thank you for that councillor henry yeah i would just say it reminds me of
 the whole travel discussion right it's sort of like the actuals on maintenance on depreciation
 on vehicles and that could get pretty granular i yeah i hear what you're saying for future like
 let's make a note for exactly the letter next year but okay yeah
 let's see if there's any other additional questions or comments on this item
 all right cnn can we please have a roll call vote councillor henry yes councillor hawke yes
 councillor crossley yes councillor iverson yes councillor dekker yes councillor phytol
 councillor wilts yes motion passes seven zero right next item this is item k council i move
 to open budget 1000 dash zero three zero seven county general fleet to make the following
 amendments reduce the count line three eight zero two zero replacement repair to zero and create a
 count line three three zero five zero service maintenance repairs fleet and set it to fifteen
 thousand dollars second okay any other further discussion on this item looking to my left
 seeing none and looking to my right seeing none maybe please have a roll call vote
 councillor hawke yes councillor crossley yes councillor iverson yes councillor dekker
 yes councillor fiddle yes councillor wilkes yes councillor henry yes motion passes seven zero
 all right next item this item l council i move to open budget 1000 dash zero two seven one county
 general public defender and make the following amendments reduce the count line three zero zero
 zero four repairs equipment vehicle to zero and create a count line three three zero five zero
 services maintenance repairs dash fleet and set it to one thousand five hundred dollars
 second all right any questions from the uh on the right over here from council anybody over here to
 my left all right seeing none may we please have a roll call vote councillor fiddle yes councillor
 iverson yes councillor dekker yes councillor hawke yes councillor wilkes yes councillor
 henry yes councillor crossley yes motion passes seven zero all right next item this is item m
 council i move to open budget 1159 dash 0000 health fund make the following amendments reduce
 account line three zero zero zero four repairs equipment slash vehicle to zero then create
 account line three three zero five zero services maintenance repairs dash fleet and set it to one
 thousand dollars reduce the account line two two two one zero education and public info to zero
 then create account line two zero zero one two education supplies and set it to two thousand
 dollars
 again all right looking over here to my left to see if anybody has any questions
 no uh looking over here to my right seeing anybody have any questions and seeing none
 maybe please have a roll call vote councillor iverson yes councillor dekker yes councillor
 fiddle yes councillor wilts yes councillor henry yes councillor hawke yes councillor crossley yes
 motion passes seven zero okay thank you next item is item n council i move to open budget eleven
 sixty eight dash zero zero zero zero local health maintenance and make the following amendments
 reduce account line two two two one zero education and public info to zero create account line two
 zero zero one two education supplies and set it to two thousand dollars second okay any questions
 from council on this item we're here and looking over here and seeing none as well can we have a
 roll call vote on this item please councillor crossley yes councillor iverson yes councillor
 dekker yes councillor fiddle yes councillor wilkes yes councillor henry yes councillor hawke yes
 motion passes seven zero all right next item this item oh council i move to open budget one one one
 four dash zero one six six lit special purpose ysb and make the following amendment increase
 account
 line one eight one zero one fica to one hundred thirty two thousand five hundred sixty two dollars
 second all right any questions from council on this item yes councillor hawke yes can you
 whoever i should address this too what is the reason for that do we have additional employees or
 i can answer that um when the ysb was here they um you guys approved to increase the part-time
 hourly line to one thousand one hundred and forty nine thousand so that would increase the fica
 amount so i didn't do that i didn't have time to do it during that process so i'm cleaning that up
 any other questions on this item
 looking to my left all right can we please have a roll call vote
 councillor flytle yes councillor wilts yes councillor henry councillor hawke yes councillor
 crossley yes councillor iverson yes councillor decker yes motion passes seven zero all right next
 item uh this is item p council i move to open budget 1000 dash 0002 county general auditor
 and make the following amendments increase account line three zero zero zero six contractual
 from zero to ten thousand dollars i get okay yes councillor hawke i believe this is we took it to
 zero because we were moving it over to the platform or is that right uh but then when i spoke with
 uh
 the auditor she suggested she would like to have some dollars left in that line item so i want to
 give the auditor a chance to respond yes um this just allows us a little bit more wiggle room um so
 we have a couple lines um in in the threes in the services category in the general fund and takes
 a tiny bit of pressure off auditors and eligible as you know moving all of almost all of the
 contractual um 240 000 now over to auditors and eligible is going to put a strain on that fund
 so it's just going to have to be back in the general fund for 2027 all right any other questions
 on this side related to this item anybody over here to the left seeing nine may we please have
 a roll call vote councilor wilts yes councilor henry yes councilor hawke yes councilor crossley
 councilor iverson yes councilor dekert yes councilor fiddle yes motion passes seven zero
 okay next item this is item q council i move to open budget 12 16 dash zero zero zero zero
 auditor ineligible deductions and make the following amendments reduce a lap count line
 three zero zero zero six contractual to 240 000 reduce the count line three zero zero two eight
 training travel to four thousand dollars reduce account line two zero zero zero one office supplies
 to four thousand dollars and reduce account line two zero zero three printing copy supplies to ten
 thousand dollars okay we got a motion in a second is there any further discussion from council on
 this item looking to my left seeing none looking to my right oh and then i look up and i see the
 auditor has her hand up yes just a quick note and apology i was ill the night that um i was
 supposed
 to present this and this is what i plan to do live so thank you for entertaining um my
 recommendations
 welcome feeling better all right seeing no other further questions um may we please have a roll
 call vote councillor hawke yes councillor crossley yes councillor iverson yes councillor henry yes
 councillor dekert yes councillor final yes councillor wilts yes motion passes seven zero
 okay and that looks like that concludes the amendments from the council office staff um
 so appreciate that now we get into the business here and i'm gonna look to councillor iverson
 council i move to open uh budget 11159-0000 health and make the following amendments
 i move to set the following lines to zero 10104 10105 10109 10110 101 i'm sorry can you go back and
 go slow down sorry thank you good job you didn't change the screen yeah all right so
 let me slow down my motion i'm so sorry yes okay so i'm going to restart my motion
 council i move to open fund 1159-0000 health and to make the following amendments
 set line 10104
 to zero line 10105 to zero 10109 to zero 10110 to zero
 these are all going to zero 10111 10116 10117 10118 10122
 just so you know 10118 is already at zero that's that's true excuse me yep yep 10122
 one zero one two three one zero one four one one zero one seven seven one zero one seven nine
 one zero one eight zero and finally one zero one eight one
 second okay we got a motion and a second and a hand raised councilor everything
 my rationale for this motion is that as we have discussed when we moved these from 1161
 i talked with the health board as well as our health administrator and sought advice
 on what we should do here we are in a tricky spot we can either leave these here
 and not be asking for legal status or we can move them back and be forcing our staff to be
 asking for legal status but at the same time saving a lot of money this is a very difficult
 decision this is probably one of the most difficult ones we'll be facing this fiscal year
 my intention as i'm concluding madam president is if this is adopted is to immediately open up
 1161 and to put those positions back in there i want to be very clear with this
 in everything that we are doing with these budgets we are trying very hard to not make
 any changes in personnel i think one of the underlying factors of our difficult decisions
 is not making a balanced budget on the backs of our employees and so i want to be able to
 to make it clear that as soon as this action is done we will then put the positions back
 instead of eliminating them okay councillor henry thank you madam president i concur with my
 colleague uh councillor iverson um and i just maybe as a point of clarification so 10109
 as i see it in the budget spreadsheet i have does not have a line item in hfi is that we'd have to
 create that account line in hfi to catch that position i have an older copy in front of me i
 just want to make sure i got it no it is not in hfi so we will have to create that account line
 item when we move it that particular one but i concur with the commentary this is not to say
 that the community that we are moving away from supporting everyone in our community regardless
 of status as they catch a disease or need assistance we're just going to have to come up
 with some real conversations between county legal and the auditor's office the board of health and
 this body to to get the minerov county answer to this problem that's been created by the state so
 thank you councillor iverson for the initial amendments yes councillor hawke yes i know this
 was difficult for you to present but it would be more difficult if it didn't happen so but i also
 wondered are you if council staff is keeping track of what the you know all of the benefit would be
 all the different changes there and what about where where is the insurance
 now the self-insurance is in this fund okay so you would want to move out whatever the portion
 is into the other fund as well as the bike on the perv okay all i need to do is if you give me a
 few
 minutes i can make those adjustments we have to take a break or i can come back however you want
 to do it yes i we had a meeting with the state and i don't believe that fund can support
 self-insurance and that's why the entirety of the self-insurance is in this fund now
 what and tell me why the state says they can't have it i don't understand what you're saying
 they won't cover any insurance at all or is it because we're self-insured
 this seems like miss lori kelly is going to be able to speak to this
 okay i'm going to try to remember but we ran into some issues when we first transitioned into
 health
 first indiana with new positions and vacancies and how it was still pulling the the insurance
 and so that's why we ended up moving everything over into 1159 yes i can clarify even just a touch
 further um so the county's procedure is we budget per position so regardless of if the position is
 filled or not we pull all of that funding over into our self-insurance fund so health first indiana
 found that problematic as we had positions budgeted that weren't filled but we were still
 counting on that funding to and we were pulling that funding so we had to switch gears and budget
 it elsewhere does that make sense okay but but let's think about this a little further why don't
 we just move whatever positions that are filled over there and as we make changes we can make
 changes there let us not take money from county general what we're trying to save because we've
 got some kind of hiccup let's just make it work you can make that work right we're open to ideas
 it was a fix at the time because we were meeting with the state and they told us no right but you're
 just saying because they don't want to cover vacant slots so that's fine with me let's just
 cover the ones that are filled so to further consider this we can't predict if a spot is
 going to become vacant throughout the year and we're pulling the money regardless so it's going
 to be a lot of flexibility and a lot of back and forth if we choose to do it that way and that is
 your choice obviously however it was problematic well it's council Henry so so I can maybe get my
 head around it so is it are we hearing that if we remove the salaries from uh whatever we're at
 we're 1161 and a return sorry 1159 and we returned to 1161 there's a possibility that the self-insurance
 would remain in this fund only well I just don't understand it yeah only the self-insurance and
 that's what we had done just to um as a workaround for state requirements um they wanted to
 actually
 they wanted the county to demonstrate and I think employee services was in the meeting as well now
 that I'm recalling more and more of this but they wanted us to demonstrate that the um the
 portion of insurance went toward the specific employees that were budgeted in that fund which
 immediately we were thinking HIPAA violations and all kinds of other things so we just didn't know
 how to provide that documentation they didn't have um they weren't able to really explain to
 us how we could provide that or how others are doing that either they just said that we must
 somehow yeah so perfect being the enemy of the good here I mean counselor Iverson's admirable
 amendment just uh is an 801 thousand dollar movement of money out of general fund and hfi
 if it left behind 378 to get 801 I'm okay right now and so we figured this out um but that's it
 madam president thank you all right help us out here any other questions or comments hearing from
 the peanut gallery gallery over here all right anybody is late yes counselor waltz I do think
 that we should put a little bit of effort into making this less messy because I mean I understand
 their concerns but we just heard from apex that lots of counties do it your way so clearly
 there are other counties doing this do they all just get their money in a different fund for the
 insurance maybe if I may um this conversation was gosh I think well over a year ago um and so I'm
 not remembering you know complete verbatim however I think it's worth revisiting um I mean the
 funding
 was very new at that point and um and the guidance was new so just following up and seeing if
 anything
 has changed or if they have better recommendations is worthwhile
 any other further discussion on this
 yes what's what's the merit of just moving the self-fund the self-insurance now and just taking
 the I guess the gamble that we have to pull it back later can we just move that now
 what would happen walk me through it like if we move to 378 right now what would
 the the actual impact be
 in the state did specifically express their discomforts and um they they didn't want us
 to budget the self-insurance they are given we couldn't provide documentation that the funding
 we were pulling from that fund for insurance was going toward the core services
 yes and i think again it was a long time ago so just trying to kind of remember some of this and
 i think one of the themes was i mean every single dollar of health first indiana is supposed to be
 directly aligned to providing one of the core services so that's kind of comes in our reporting
 with what core services where has that money gone and is it actually being spent on them i go to
 counselor decker because he had his hand up next i i did agree with counselor henry on it in that
 we're heading that way towards the door trying to figure it out roughly we cannot be the only
 county that's discovered we've got a horse that has no saddle um and we all the time we end up
 in here cleaning up messes all night i mean literally the meeting before this we figured
 out things about self-insurance we figured out things about repair supplies all sorts of things
 and and we can always come in here and start that adjustment process if necessary so i would tend
 to
 to agree with that i don't know the motion to make to do that but i'd love to see that done
 him was coming up with a number yeah and i think she was need in a minute a horse with no saddle
 sounds like a america song but i know it's not it's called a horse with no name they played in
 brown county i know yeah just a little here in the late night hour all right and so
 miss we were giving michelle an opportunity to take a moment to figure out this number here
 okay so if i counted this several times moving all of those positions to zero that leaves three
 positions in this fund which is environmental health so it's 113 and 114 and then there is an
 administrative assistant which is 11 002 so that leaves three employees in this fund so three
 employees for the health insurance then is 54 000 hold on i'm gonna put that in here
 and then getting rid of those positions then would change the FICA amount to
 two so that would be the new totals with regards to
 54 000 for the self-insurance for the three lowering the FICA to 12 572
 it would but i haven't made it that far yet yes counselor iverson madam president i seek the
 council's consent to amend my agenda to include the adjusted FICA amounts second okay no i just
 ask for perf and insurance too just give me one moment i mean i'm not sure i'd like to
 hear the sound of my own voice so i'm carry on
 i i will also seek council's consent for uh the um uh let's see for the perf as well as the
 self-insurance but it's that's still being calculated so yes
 yes
 20 865
 is there any other further discussion on this motion was there a second
 yeah
 well if you didn't have one i'll give you one pardon did you get it yeah yeah okay
 so do last call for any other final question comment on this item
 i think she's working on that okay i'm waiting until you guys approve the amendment
 Then I'll pick everything.
 So we are approving the amendment
 and then I will look to Michelle
 and then we will look for the final grand total here
 and she'll give it to us in a second.
 So I'm just, can we please have a roll call
 going on the amendment, please?
 Councilor Wilz? - Yes.
 Councilor Hawk? - Yes.
 Councilor Iverson? - Yes.
 Councilor Crosley? - Yes.
 Councilor Feitel? - Yes.
 Councilor Deckard? - Yes.
 Councilor Henry? - Yes.
 Motion passes seven zero.
 Okay, and then this is the part
 where we wait for Michelle to come up
 with the new grand total.
 New grand total for the personnel is 507,553.
 Which puts the budget bottom line amount at 1,640,271.
 Yes, Councilor Hawk?
 Yes, and wanted to check with the auditor
 to make sure that we keep it within the dollar amount
 that we have to have to meet the match.
 I can find that amount in my email,
 but it's significantly lower than the past couple of years
 and we're well within it.
 I think it's around $200,000.
 I thought we were having to make up the difference
 this year, but it looks like we might be doing that.
 Could you clarify what you mean, make up the difference?
 I thought we were somewhere like a half million dollars
 short on our tax levy.
 When we were looking at all those tax levies,
 we were gonna have to bump the health fund,
 the 1159 in order to meet.
 But nevermind, if that's not what you're remembering,
 then surely you remember.
 Yeah, that's not anything I'm recalling, but--
 Where's Jeff McKim when I need him?
 There was something, because we ran short.
 We were using like past numbers that we had entered
 in order, because we had to pay so much to--
 Okay, now you know what I'm talking about.
 I think I know what you're saying.
 We had previously, if you will, overfunded the health fund.
 So the levy was already included.
 So we're not making up for past funding.
 We're just staying current with what is needed.
 I just wanted you to look at the numbers
 and say we're okay.
 We are okay.
 Okay, now that we got all the okays out,
 we need to have a roll call vote.
 Councilor Hock. - Yes.
 Councilor Crosley. - Yes.
 Councilor Iverson. - Yes.
 Councilor Decker. - Yes.
 Councilor Feidl. - Yes.
 Councilor Wilts. - Yes.
 Councilor Henry. - Yes.
 Motion passes seven zero.
 Councilor Iverson.
 Council, I move to open budget 1161-0000,
 local public health services,
 and make the following amendments
 to increase in the corresponding decreases
 in this budget that we just did with 1159,
 including FICA, PERF, and self-insurance.
 Second.
 We got a motion and a second on that.
 And Councilor Henry.
 Thank you, Madam President.
 So I think this is where we need a amendment
 to create a line in a 10109
 to catch the environmental health specialist.
 Would the sponsor entertain an amendment
 to add the account line 10109
 and the appropriate dollar amount
 from 1159 to that line item?
 Yes, as well as entertaining the FICA, PERF,
 and the self-insurance.
 Thank you, yes.
 Okay, so we have that.
 And so, yeah, we need a second for the amendment.
 Okay, we got a motion and a second on the amendment.
 Is there any other further discussion on this?
 No, Councilor Welts.
 Okay, I just want to,
 maybe it's telling me something,
 but I just, I don't know.
 I just wanna reiterate, you know, I've said in the past
 that I was 100% on board for moving these positions
 the opposite direction.
 And this sort of thing, I mean,
 we've been given no choice, really.
 We, and it's, I'm sure not the first or last time tonight
 that we are in a position because of things
 that the state legislature has put in place.
 And we are reacting in order to salvage local county services
 in a way that preserves, I think, the maximum good
 that we can offer.
 And so I just want, you know, to go on record
 with as soon as we, as soon as the session starts next time,
 I would encourage anyone and everyone
 to lobby legislators to make some changes
 about this restriction on the Health First Indiana.
 That's all.
 Thank you.
 I'm sorry to interrupt, but account line 101-1-1
 does not exist in this fund.
 And we need to add that number as well.
 Council, I move that we add account line 1-0-1-1-1.
 What is the title of that?
 Environmental Health Specialist General.
 Environmental Health Specialist General.
 Okay, we got a motion and a second
 to add that account line.
 Is there any other further discussion on that?
 All right.
 Right.
 So all those in favor of amending
 to add the new account line, signify by saying aye.
 Aye. - Aye.
 All those opposed, same sign.
 Okay, motion carries.
 Now we come back to the overall amendment here.
 David's. - Yes.
 Yep.
 Okay, all right.
 All those in favor of Council Henry's amendment,
 signify by saying aye.
 Aye. - Aye.
 All those opposed, same sign.
 All right, motion carries.
 Now we come back to the overall underline motion here.
 I just wanna say, since Councilor Wilts had said it,
 it's really, it kind of ticks me off
 that we're sitting here having to go back and forth
 and playing this kind of game.
 We obviously know that disease knows no boundaries,
 no citizenship status, no birthright status,
 none of the above, and so it really kind of ticks me off
 that we're sitting here, and I have other words to say,
 but I'm gonna use PG-13 because I'm sure my kids
 somewhere are sitting here watching it, probably not.
 But that being said, I just, I'm frustrated,
 and this is nothing bad to the health department,
 and they tried, they tried really hard
 to move things back, and this is the unfortunate,
 craptastic way of SB1, and this is where elections
 has consequences, this is the part where we knew
 at the beginning of the year, all this crap
 that was flying through the state house,
 this is where we are, this is the mass casualty
 of ineffectiveness of government, period.
 And so what I would like to say is to the health department,
 I wish that there was some way, shape, or form,
 that we can try to work together, and we can try to see
 where we can have, I know Ms. Kelly had said earlier
 when I asked the question of how we can see
 if we can work with other partners and community members,
 and I really truly hope that we truly can,
 because it just really pisses me off
 that we're sitting here in this moment,
 trying to figure out how to rob here and pay Paul,
 and this is the mass casualty, and as a public commenter
 mentioned earlier, that this is a tough job,
 it makes me sick to my stomach
 that we're sitting here having this conversation,
 so what I would like to say is heck yeah,
 we should be lobbying those folks.
 We even got a doggone lobby for SB1
 where it relates to our justice center,
 and we should definitely damn well lobby folks
 in the state house for this stuff too.
 I'm sorry, I mean, we worried about language here,
 but we should be seeing what is happening to people
 and what we are doing here.
 So excuse me, sorry, not sorry.
 So that being said, without further discussion,
 now we can have a roll call vote on this overall motion.
 Council Henry.
 Councilor Hawke.
 Yes.
 Councilor Wills.
 Yes.
 Councilor Iverson.
 Yes.
 Councilor Decker.
 Yes.
 Councilor Feidl.
 Yes.
 Councilor Crosley.
 Yes.
 Motion passes seven zero.
 (faintly speaking)
 All right, I got one more.
 Go ahead.
 Council, I move to open budget 1000-0061 County Council
 and amend line 33032BEDC to...
 I don't have the number in front of me.
 Crap, sorry.
 (faintly speaking)
 Going back to the original amount.
 Yes.
 35,750.
 $35,750.
 Second.
 All right, we got a motion and a second
 to put that line item back.
 Is there any other further discussion?
 Looking to my left and looking to my right.
 Okay, are you going to, you're just doing 35,000
 and not include the dues?
 My motion was to go--
 That's what I missed, yeah.
 Yeah, yeah, no, no, it was to include the dues as well.
 Yeah.
 I thought that was the original amount.
 Original amount is 35,750.
 That was--
 Which includes the dues.
 Right.
 That was the intent of the motion.
 Okay.
 I thought I saw Councilor Henry's hand up.
 Yeah, I just, thank you.
 And I want to be clear for public record.
 We took, this was proposed, we took it down,
 now it's back up, but would the sponsor
 or others like to speak to,
 just so we get it on the record,
 why we're boomeranging back--
 I have some things to say, if now is the time.
 Yeah, well, I just wanted to make sure
 Madam President had caught that maybe.
 Yes, oh yeah.
 Yes, yes, Councilor.
 So I have a list, do you want the list?
 The floor is yours.
 Okay, it's not color coded, but it's a list.
 Okay, go ahead.
 So since 2020, BEDC has been a part
 of $1 billion in capital and 900 new jobs around here.
 And 11 of those were BEDC supported.
 The industries have been life sciences,
 advanced manufacturing, defense, technology,
 and higher education.
 As you know, the working age population has been down.
 21, it's expected to go down between 2020 and 2050.
 Another 4.4% to 2144 less.
 The specific projects that they worked on in 2024,
 Nova Nordisk was 16 and a half billion.
 Catalint, SEMTRA was purchased,
 they purchased the former GE site in July of 2025.
 And then there was a, between '21 and '23,
 there was a $290 million investment.
 And '24 and '25, there was a $539 million investment.
 And 130 new jobs in 2024 with an average salary of $73,000.
 Phoenix was a $55 million since 2021.
 Envoy, Bloomington was selected as their US headquarters
 in May of 2025.
 The Forge Trade District, there have been 350,000 square feet
 under roof for sites, as well as 1,000 acres of Greenfield
 and 200 acres in the city.
 Oliver Winery had 12.6 million by the end of 2026.
 Catalan had 10 million plus another 340 million.
 Phoenix had 20.25 million in 2021.
 Baxter, 35 million plus 5 million in '21.
 Ernest Health, 18.4 million, which included,
 which became the Bloomington Rehab in 2020,
 as well as 1.3 million in 2020.
 Formerly Hall Signs, and I'm not sure how to pronounce it,
 it's either Provelie, or Pro-ve-lee,
 or some pronunciation of P-r-o-v-e-l-i,
 two million in 2020, excuse me,
 as well as 1.8 million in 2020.
 Keehee was 35 million in 2020 and 388,000 square feet,
 and 7.6 million in 2020.
 And Tasses was 904 million in 2020.
 Now these are all things that create income,
 as you can see from the jobs listed here for our community.
 They pay taxes, they buy homes,
 and I'm a very big supporter of having jobs
 in this community, so that's why I wanna bring it back.
 And I think BEDC does a wonderful job of that here.
 I've been involved with them for a very long time
 in various capacities, and I fully support that.
 I just wanna update the council, and I'm sorry.
 The dues did raise for the BEDC,
 so the amount really needs to be 35,925.
 Council, I seek unanimous consent to make that change.
 No objection.
 All right, yes, Councilor Hauk.
 Yes, first of all, what will we do
 if we weren't growing our job base here?
 Because now that we have, the states made it clear,
 we have to rely on that income tax for us to survive.
 And without that income tax, without these good jobs,
 we would not have it.
 Now, let's be very clear, that means that the people,
 they hire, hopefully, that the zoning and planning
 and other issues will allow the folks
 to build a house here, to live here.
 But I just wanted to follow up on that.
 I know there'll be a lot to be said about that,
 but I wanted to be very clear about something else.
 For years, we had an economic development staff person
 that worked in the commissioner's office.
 And we, yeah, right, we did.
 And we no longer have that.
 And we rely on others to do this job
 that Monroe County government used to do
 when it was Jane Marie and Joyce Poole and the others.
 So I just wanted to make it clear,
 this is not something different.
 This is a lot less money than what it would be
 to provide a whole separate department.
 Okay, any other further discussion on this item?
 Okay, I'll just, I'll say it,
 because I think I might be the lone ranger on this one.
 And that's okay, 'cause we all don't have to agree.
 Again, we just went through a hard conversation
 with our health department, and it sucked.
 It sucked really bad to sit there and have that conversation.
 And we've been talking time and time and time again
 of trying to figure out how we are going
 to do all the things.
 And I know this might be just one little drop
 in the bucket, but again, I understand,
 like we have our dues, and I understand
 that we had talked about this last week
 during budget session that the intent was
 to have the abatement come through
 and have that go towards the BEDC.
 I understand that that also is not coming into effect,
 but for maybe about another year or so.
 But it just makes me feel like, this is not,
 again, this is one of the casualties
 in all of this budget conversation.
 And I personally am in favor of what we did last week
 where we were just paying the dues.
 So if I'm the lone ranger on this one,
 again, this is no shade, no disrespect to BEDC,
 and I understand all the work and things that they've done,
 but I just, I feel some kind of way right now with that.
 And yeah, I don't know if I could support that.
 So that's all I have to say on that.
 All right, yes, Councilor Decker.
 Yeah, I carried the compromise last week
 on this and another item.
 I'm happy to hear people come in
 and make the case for this,
 but I am gonna remain a no vote on this,
 although I seconded it.
 And the reason I'm gonna be until I see the final
 kind of outcome on where the budget is,
 and then I might switch if this would not prevail,
 but for now, this and the other line that I moved,
 I'm just monitoring that,
 trying to get us to the hard answers here.
 And so until I see that kind of come out,
 I'm gonna kind of hold off and be a no on this for once.
 Councilor Williams.
 So if we don't pass this,
 the amount that is budgeted right now
 is the 15, the compromise number.
 And yeah, I just have to say I agree with Councilor Crossley
 and I have championed support for BEDC
 and I will continue to do that.
 I like the idea of taking a look at some of these items
 that we're making cuts to.
 Like maybe let's target May.
 Take a look at 'em and see if we can bring some stuff back.
 I think we'll know a lot more in May, hopefully.
 Good stuff, thanks.
 All right, any other questions
 or discussions on this item?
 I have a point of inquiry.
 Yes.
 So if this would, if it passes, it goes to 35,
 if it fails, it sits at the compromise 15
 and then we could always come back, right?
 Okay, all right, thank you.
 Okay.
 But wait a minute, doesn't that number increase a little
 since the dues you mentioned are different?
 Yeah, I mean, you amended without no objection,
 so that new amount is 35,925, it's right there.
 Okay, all right, got it.
 Okay, so without any other further discussion,
 can we please--
 Remind us what we're voting on.
 The overall, we didn't have an amendment,
 did we have an amendment?
 We didn't vote on the 35,925, so that's--
 There was a no objections.
 Right, so this is the overall conversation.
 Yes, so this is the overall conversation
 of the no objection for the new amount.
 35,925, so can we please have a roll?
 Councilor Decker.
 Councilor Feidl.
 Yes.
 Councilor Henry.
 No.
 Councilor Iverson.
 Yes.
 Councilor Wilts.
 No.
 Councilor Crosley.
 No.
 Councilor Hauk.
 Yes.
 Motion carries, four three.
 Councilor May, motion fails, four three.
 Big part, beg your pardon, motion fails, four three.
 Okay, all right, thank you for that.
 Any other motion?
 Does any other council member have any other motions?
 I do, so I'm gonna go to the commissioners,
 I'm gonna go to the commissioners' budget.
 So council, I move to reopen the commissioners' budget,
 the county general.
 So for line item 1000-0068, county commissioner general,
 I would like to move that line item 1000-0068,
 item 33029, historical record preservation,
 reduced from 10,000 to zero.
 And I would also like to reduce line item 30028,
 train and travel, from 5,000 to 1,000.
 Second.
 Point of order, I think line 33029
 is indeed historical record preservation,
 but 33028 is not training and travel,
 30028 is training and travel.
 Correct.
 Hold on a second.
 It's okay.
 Oh, okay.
 I just wanna make sure for the--
 Okay, okay, sorry, I thought I said that.
 Okay.
 Both are zeros now?
 I mean, in--
 So train and travel is reduced to 1,000.
 Madam President, point of information too.
 So now we're moving into opening up different accounts.
 If I had one to add to this particular,
 like the Commissioner's budget,
 would you prefer that to be a separate amendment
 or to be added on in discussion?
 Added on.
 Okay. - Yeah.
 So Madam President, I have an addition.
 So for the Commissioner's,
 Commissioner's line 1000-0068 supplies category, 23569.
 Say that again?
 Yeah, for the supplies category, 23569, America 250.
 Oh, okay.
 Yeah, I have two items here.
 First is to amend the name of the account to Civic Events,
 and then secondly, to reduce the amount from 30,000 to 1,500.
 Can you repeat the title?
 America 250.
 To Civic Events?
 To Civic Events.
 Okay.
 And reducing the total from 30,000 to 1,500.
 Second.
 Happy to explain my motion.
 Okay, and so I'll take a stab at it first
 and then I'll pass it over to you.
 So I had a conversation with Ms. Purdy earlier today
 to see because it looks like
 for the historical record preservation,
 that line item was not used at all last year.
 And so that was at a zero.
 And so she was okay with doing that.
 And then the training and travel,
 if we look at that line item,
 there's nothing that has been spent in that item for 2025.
 Am I right?
 Okay, okay.
 So because training and travel again
 has been a topic of conversation,
 that is something that I've wanted to reduce.
 And again, if folks are going somewhere,
 then we can always come back.
 But again, I had that conversation with her earlier today
 and she seemed to be fine with doing so.
 So that is my reasoning for my motions.
 Councilor Henry.
 Madam President, to the rationale
 for my recommendation here is that,
 this is a golden opportunity for the commissioners
 to seek out a blue-ribbon committee
 to round up our partners like BEDC and the Chamber
 and others to really engage in a way
 to celebrate the 250th anniversary of the country
 as a public-private whole community activity.
 Secondly, the reason why I set it at 1,500
 is that $500 is the amount that it costs
 to rent the courthouse after hours.
 And so when we think about the lighting of the square,
 the swearing in of officers in January
 and presumably opening the building for the bathrooms
 for this event, it seems that 500 a pop seems about right
 to me based on what we had rent to the public.
 So it's setting a number and encouraging the commissioners
 to come back with additional appropriations
 and hopefully some sort of blue-ribbon activity
 to really plan for that event.
 That's it.
 Great, thank you.
 Any other questions?
 Yes, Councilor Hopp.
 Are we just in general still going up and down asking
 are we just, are we?
 Yeah, so this is on my two items
 and then Councilor Henry's item
 for the commissioners budget.
 I just wondered if anybody looked at the dues.
 I was, I didn't know whether it was appropriate time.
 Yeah, go ahead, this is.
 Well, I just wondered when I'm looking at the dues,
 15,500 and I don't know what that entails.
 Maybe, I mean, I don't think they even go
 to the AIC meetings, do they?
 I've not noticed.
 So I'm wondering what the 15,500 is.
 Well, if according to this, this is a January,
 or January, June 30th total right here,
 they spent $12,190 and that was as of June 30th
 in that particular line for dues.
 Ms. Purdy is online, so I don't know
 if she wanted to speak to that.
 So if she was able to maybe unmute and talk about the dues,
 which is line item 30005.
 Yes, oh, sorry.
 We have the ledger pulled up if you want us
 to read some of the vendor names.
 That's what I was trying to do.
 It looks like it's National Association of Counties,
 Association of Counties, Indiana County Commissioners,
 Exchange Club of Northside, Ellitsville Chamber of Commerce,
 Greater Bloomington, I assume that's Chamber of Commerce,
 but it's cut off.
 Okay, all right.
 Yeah.
 So does that answer your question, Councilor Hauk?
 As I don't know what the criteria is
 for the different clubs, I mean--
 Yeah.
 Exchange Club, I don't know, whatever.
 Yeah.
 All right, does anybody else have any questions
 or comments on the motions?
 Okay.
 Seeing none, may we please have a roll call vote?
 Councilor Feidl?
 I apologize, could somebody tell me
 what we're really voting on here?
 You're voting on the amendments for account line 23569,
 changing the title to Civic Events,
 lower it to $1,500. The next one then is training travel, reducing it down to $1,000. The then
 historical record preservation, reducing it down to zero. I'll vote yes.
 Yes. Councilor Wilz. Yes. Councilor Henry. Yes. Councilor Hawk. Yes. Councilor Crossley. Yes.
 Councilor Iverson. Yes. Councilor Decker. Yes. Motion passes seven zero. Okay. And look into other
 council members to see if anybody else has any other amendments. Yes. Councilor Henry.
 Thank you. I'd like to return to our health budget. I caught me off guard when we moved away from
 it. In fund 1159 in the supplies category, line 26997 COVID supplies.
 One moment please.
 That's right. And we may Kelly being here to get some further clarity on this one. Are you there.
 Yes. All right. In the code of supply line of 746574 to reduce to $1.
 Are you now.
 Second.
 All right, we got a motion and a second. Any discussion on this, Madam President, Miss Kelly, Lori,
 are you, are you able to come up and answer a question about the coven supply line.
 We're into it right now. Do you mind.
 So I'm taking a look at the supply line item. Can you walk us through the 746574 for coven supplies
 we have the letter you provided from ID OH regarding the what this money was and what we're doing
 with it.
 So I've recommended setting it to $1 and so we can actually determine and this is my rationale. If
 this is something that needs to be reimbursed to the county for the activities we used county
 dollars for during the pandemic.
 So, if we used county rainy day fund if we used any county dollars if this is a truly reimbursement
 of our county activities that we now have.
 We're interpreting this is, we probably need to find those reimbursement lines first before we know
 how much is in residual to work on current health projects can you help me understand this line
 item I know it was the last minute over the past month.
 Discovery in addition. Sure.
 And again I think this kind of started pre predates me so I'm just trying to kind of go off of
 information as I came into the decision and kind of looked into it but
 one point I think is challenging, I think that the money that was grant funds were coming in to
 support the covert efforts and the covert vaccination clinics.
 So, could the county have used rainy day funds. I have no idea. My understanding is grant funding
 was coming in. That was being used to support those efforts.
 As this goes from my understanding and again the letter.
 The state was helping to provide a program to be able to bill for insurance to then come back to
 the local health departments.
 Because in the letter, I just so we have it I mean it says, please note that we have sent collected
 amount of less than a $3 billion feet offset the cost of our contract only claims are paid or
 dispersed.
 It later says that the first be used for expenses directly related to public health activities,
 including offsetting local expenses related to covert 19.
 So I think the reason why I want to pull this back is I think we need to do some forensics to
 figure out what those were in those two years and then if that is a funding stream we can move back
 to rainy day later or, or, or first, whatever's left is I think what you've, you may have
 identified things for this money but I don't think we can really have this in our budget yet so we've
 really audited out what what this reimbursements were it's a very specific number to it's not like,
 here's a million dollars use it at will, it seems like it is really.
 It seems like it is reimbursement for something is that a fair understanding.
 Yeah, my understanding is for vaccine administration and so I think there's been other buckets
 of money again that kind of fell under this and some of that was given through to IU health,
 like a large chunk of money and some of it through the university for these clinics.
 So I think differentiating some of these pockets of money to and one of my first questions
 coming into the position is, is there a contract somewhere that says where remember where funds
 are supposed to be dispersed into who, and there was, there was nothing for that I guess
 I offer to my fellow counselors my why I'm making them and I think it's been made clear.
 We need to figure out what this is before we start allocating it for the fiscal.
 Okay.
 Yes, counselor.
 Right.
 I think I've spoken with the auditor's office about this, saying that I thought that we
 need to see a clear understanding of when the dollars came in what went out and so forth
 of, you know, $750,000 is just sitting there in a line saying reimbursement didn't didn't
 give us any idea of what was really going on.
 And so if it was just something that was sitting out there and somebody suddenly saw here $750,000.
 But not only that, the letter that came with directions or suggestions, it really wasn't
 a direction.
 This kind of more like a suggestion about how to use it was sent out January of 2022.
 So you know, by somebody who's no longer there.
 And everything has changed since that time, everything.
 So we want to make sure that we're doing what we really need to do with $750,000.
 We may need it desperately for making sure we make payroll or whatever, but I just don't
 think it helps one thing to budget it, appropriate it because once you've got that appropriation
 in there, we can't, you know, it's already gone.
 So keep get the appropriation out and $1 if you want to leave something there until we've
 done some homework on it.
 Okay.
 Are there any other questions or comments related to this item?
 Seeing none, again, we just have one overall motion here.
 So can we have a roll call vote?
 This is to reduce the COVID supplies line to $1.
 Yes, I'll say yes.
 Councilor Wills.
 Yes.
 Councilor Crosley.
 Yes.
 Councilor Henry.
 Yes.
 Motion passes 7-0.
 Madam President, yes, what I wanted to make it clear, I see it now it's saying COVID supplies
 line budget sheets that we were looking at, it said reimbursement, didn't say anything
 about COVID or anything, maybe that got changed after we received a letter or something of
 the sort, but just for people to know what we were talking about when we were talking
 about reimbursement, it's sort of confusing.
 Yes.
 Okay, we'll look into other council members to see if anybody else has any other motions
 that they would like to make.
 Yes.
 Councilor Henry.
 Thank you, Madam President.
 I'd like to return to Commissioner's budget under the CUME CAP 1138.
 So under CUME CAP 1138, I have a motion on the service category 30041 software to reduce
 the line item to 1 million, so a $500,000 deduction.
 To encourage the commissioners to visit the general obligation bonds for software purchasing
 for half a million dollars in the 11 years of bonds that we have.
 Second.
 Okay.
 We have a motion and a second on this item to reduce that line item and software to 1
 million.
 Is there any discussion of council?
 Council, well, you just gave your ration for doing that.
 So nevermind.
 Okay.
 That was good.
 Any other questions or comments related to this?
 I think this is a great idea.
 Yeah.
 And again, my understanding from my conversation with Ms. Purdy earlier today is, again, and
 looking at this particular area, and I'm glad Council Henry made those motions.
 That was something that I wrote down in my handy dandy budget notebook here is to look
 at that and look and revisit how we can look at bonds.
 And it's my understanding, and I'm looking at the auditor as well, apparently there's
 a conversation that should be coming to Council soon related to bond projects.
 My understanding is it's the 23rd.
 Okay.
 Okay.
 If I may, as you know, we always budget high to give you flexibility to determine how you
 want to proceed.
 So because there were unknowns, Council Administrator and I were budgeting the bond, I think it's
 seven and a half million, which I know you don't want to go anywhere near, but that gives
 you the flexibility to do as FSG, I think at one point mentioned, like six for six years,
 or you could do three for six years, or however you choose to approve and do it, it just,
 that is an option for other funding.
 Okay.
 Yes.
 Okay.
 Anybody over here got questions to the left.
 Councilor Rhodes.
 That's a little bit different than the bonding that we're talking about for this particular
 motion, not unrelated, but, but I think what would be really nice is to have a public discussion
 around the funds, the bond funds that go back years and years, because we've had that, we've
 had a discussion a couple of years ago, and got the spreadsheet going, which love the spreadsheet,
 it's awesome, but I need context with that a little bit because, you know, I think there's
 just a goldmine of information about the various projects that exists in probably Angie Purdy's
 office and I would, you know, it would be great for us to make these kinds of decisions
 fully aware of what we can be maybe utilizing.
 So anyway, I'm all for doing this.
 I'm also for hopefully getting some more information.
 I would just add that my first inclination was to zero or to take it to a dollar and
 go look for a million five, but I feel like it's a baby step.
 Also based on the document we have, while it gives us some idea that there are line items,
 it really isn't that granular and this is why I'm coming full circle to our earlier
 part of the meeting when we say we found $300,000 at the beginning of the meeting and a bond
 to buy something, software, vehicles, whatever, and then when we make a suggestion that that's
 counted for, we need a little more granularity in the sheets, I think.
 So this is an opening conversation.
 It should be a reasonable thing to manage because we've seen them manage it before over
 the past year.
 That's it.
 Yes, Councilor Decker.
 I recall vividly in 2020, we had discussion on bonding, I believe, for dollars around
 the Memorial that the Chamber of Commerce donated to the community in the '50s out here.
 It's the soldier that's facing northeast to repave around that.
 By knowledge, that's not been done.
 We have to be, I'm not saying that project should be done or not done, but to speak to
 the spirit of this, looking at projects, triaging these, what applies, what does not, and making
 choices.
 There are some choices for bonding projects that this is not going to happen, and instead
 this fund will pay for something else that's eligible and more important, and these are
 the tough times we're in.
 Okay.
 All right, so any other further questions or comments on this?
 Okay, seeing none, may we please have a roll call vote?
 Councilor Decker. Yes. Councilor Iverson. Yes. Councilor Henry. Yes. Councilor Feidl. Yes.
 Councilor Witt-Wilts. Yes. Councilor Crosley. I'm so sorry. Yes. Councilor Hawke. Motion
 passes 7-0. Okay. All right, thank you. Yes, Councilor Iverson. Council, I move to open
 fund 1000-0309 County General Employee Services. The general fund. Okay, that's what I was
 going to ask. Yeah. Because that's where the self-insurance is. And I move to amend line
 18001 full-time self-insurance to move it from $18,000 per position to $16,500 per position.
 Second. Got a motion and a second. Council Iverson. I don't see employee services here
 anymore. So the rationale here is that this decreased amount per position is a compromise
 that this is still an investment in our employees. This is still an investment in the health
 of our employees, but the reduced amount in this general fund will help us reach our goal
 of a balanced budget. And Ms. Kim Schell. I don't think you want to do just general
 fund. I think you want to make the motion to do self-insurance across the board. Across
 all funds? Thank you. That is my intent. That was my intent. So council I ask for unanimous
 consent to amend my motion to be across all funds not just in this one fund.
 Correct. Thank you. So order. Thank you.
 Good. Okay. So we didn't have any objections to that. So that is to reduce that to 16
 across the board. 16,500. Yes. 16,500 across the board. Any other further discussion on that?
 All right. Yes. Yep. All right. Seeing none, may we please have a roll call vote.
 Councillor Hawke. Councillor Crosley. Yes. Councillor Henry. Yes. Councillor Feidl. Yes. Councillor
 Wiltz.
 Yes. Councillor Iverson. Yes. Councillor Decker. Yes. Motion passes 7-0.
 Yes. Councillor Henry. Thank you, Madam President. Maybe I'll ask the President's preference. Would
 you like me to start with a smaller one or should I move on to the clerk because this may take some
 time? May I just interrupt for one more time? So when we were on the health fund and we were
 reducing
 those and I was counting the number of employees, I need to add another employee into that mix even
 though there's only three people in that fund. We also have a fourth one and that's due to the
 local health trust. We have a person in that fund and that fund is the one that's going to be going
 away and so the self-insurance is coming out of that fund and so I need to add that person
 otherwise.
 And that person's being added into 1161 or 1159. Okay great. Council, I move to make the changes
 that Ms. Kim Schell elucidated in fund 1159-0000 health. Second. All right we got a motion and a
 second. Any further discussion on that item? All right seeing none, can we we should be able
 to do a voice vote on this one. So all those in favor of the motion signify by saying aye.
 Aye. All those opposed same sign. Okay motion carries. All right. So
 before that happened, Councilor Henry had mentioned that he has more amendments
 to come down the pike here and so I guess let's say you council.
 I would just repeat Madam President. Yeah I have a small amendment for stormwater or
 somewhere around 40 line items for the clerk's office so I just want to make sure we buckle in
 if we need to. Would you prefer stormwater? Yeah let's start small. Okay all right Madam
 President I take a look at fund 1197 with stormwater under the capital category.
 Kim are you ready? I'll get there. All right can you form a motion? Yeah so I'd like to make a
 motion
 and under under I don't have the under fund 1197 stormwater capital category
 item four zero zero zero one equipment street sweeper to set the line item to one dollar
 and again just for rationale because I was just asked by the counselor to again consult the
 commissioners on general obligation bonds under their vehicle line items to see if we can make
 that purchase under bonds this year. All right council we have a motion is there a second on
 this motion? Second oh oh we do have a second a motion and a second is there any discussion
 on the proposed motion? I would just say it's very important for us to have a street sweeper
 so I hope they're going to cover it in the bond. The reason why for those of us who live out in
 the county I you know they have all that sand up after a heavy snow event if you don't do that it
 all gets into that drainage way backs it up and then we have real real problems so we have to have
 a street sweeper. Thank you council member Hawke. I agree I do live out in the county as well you
 know for now until the city loses its lawsuit in any case. I did have an opportunity to see our
 current street sweeper work down my street the other day I know that this is a much want to have
 but it looks like the need is you know or maybe the need might not be there I don't want to judge
 the equipment I didn't inherit my dad's mechanic jeans but having said that I think again it's
 just another opportunity there are multiple vehicle lines inside the general obligation bonds if it's
 the opportunities there pursue it if not we can revisit it revisit it with an additional probe
 in the fiscal next year yeah all right thank you councilmember henry is there any further
 discussion on this item yes councilmember dickard I just want to say that again this budget is a
 work in progress they're always a work in progress and as folks look at those bond opportunities or
 other items this can factor into that discussion it has to around that and in consultation with
 the department and everyone else all right any further comments seeing none may we please have
 a roll call vote councilor fiddle councilor wilts yes councilor henry yes councilor hawk yes
 councilor crossley not present councilor iverson yes councilor dickard motion passes six one all
 right thank you before I look back at councilor henry does anybody else have any amendments to
 make to the 2026 budget this evening well that I don't I'm reserving the right yes no as well
 you should council member wilts no one's trying to take that away from you I just like three items
 versus 40 I mean to be quite honest after the 40 which I'm excited to hear about um I could we
 maybe get a little update on how much we've cut and where we are in the whole I would prefer it
 now if we could wait we could I mean ish yeah I need to go back and fix 1161 maybe now is time
 for uh if you want to take a brief break yeah sorry I mean I need I need to figure out the
 fika and the perf with regards to 1161 all right council so it's how much time do you need five
 minutes maybe all right council please come back here at 9 45 pm on the dot uh we are in recess
 all right council we are returned from recess and before we go to councillors for additional
 appropriations and I'm killing time because I see council member crossly walking her way in
 miss kim shell do you have an updated number for this council
 I forgot one one minute I gotta plug this one in eight four zero one two one five five nine four
 okay so um with the addition of moving personnel lines back into 1161
 we have 18 employees so that calculates at the eighteen thousand uh three hundred and
 twenty four thousand dollars for self-insurance I redid the FICA so that is now eighty four zero
 twelve and then perf is one fifty five nine forty two so there is a new personnel amount of one
 million six sixty two one thirty seven so for an overall budget of two million two oh two three
 forty
 three yes that's the local health fund hfi
 I we we did 1159 earlier I had already taken care of that and and you guys 1159 that we care about
 yeah 1159 has a bottom line new total of nine hundred and eleven thousand six ninety eight
 so is it possible for us to get an idea of how much we have taken out of the budgets
 tonight yeah I mean because well we're just going to keep going right at some point I'd like to go
 home right overall overall we have done two million seven seventy two nine thirty nine
 now granted you've moved things from one fund to another with regards to health so
 you know that kind of thing so you know you moved positions from here to here so there's no loss
 you know okay but yeah look yeah
 focus on general okay or just or levy I mean hang on hang on let me let me let me try something
 here
 so general fund if I go down here
 I need to go to taco bell at this point it's the only thing open
 but
 that's general ever I've been here till midnight yeah I have an entire
 that latest you've been before 11 but I think that's that's the uh 11 maybe
 maybe
 do seven seven two nine three nine
 so
 carly's plugging a number into her her stuff
 okay okay so order in the court all right so carly take it away let's get us wrangle back in so if
 we
 look at the simple calculation that was provided um want to put that on the screen I can yes
 okay
 don't pay any mind to the deep dive calculation we're looking specifically at the simple
 calculation
 we took the amount that we started the night with for the budget and we reduced we subtracted out
 those reductions that leaves us at a deficit of 5.279
 5.7 can you I was gonna say can you enlarge that and I can see it better
 on there there you go a good idea yes
 all right so you were close three okay so
 I can't hear you marty use your mic I uh I'm looking at simple calculation and that bottom
 line says it does not account for the tax cap impact which is what another million something
 the tax cap impact is highlighted in yellow that's the sum across all levy funds so that's
 in addition to the deficit displayed in the simple calculation
 okay so it sounds like we got some chipping away and it sounds like that council Henry
 has some things to do here so let's get on the bandwagon thank you um I would I'm going to try
 to break these motions into um categories it might be easier to get through um uh Kim I'd like to
 go to the clerk's budget uh one zero zero zero dash zero zero zero one county general
 okay hopefully get a display up on screen so I can all take a looky-loo
 we'll start with the personnel category one seven one zero one
 it's overtime and setting this to a reduction to one dollar until we have a further analysis of
 need and as the for the appropriation second okay um so um what what that's it just uh reducing
 the overtime to a dollar in this category okay so that's the tweet and that's the post okay um
 all right any other additional questions or comments related to this item looking to my left
 um if you want to give me just a second if we're going to move forward with this
 i need to redo the faika okay amongst yourselves hold party one doritos
 go to rio one's over here so you can do it like that i mean for those that might watch back later
 we're just waiting for michelle to adjust the numbers um since the reduction of overtime
 is proposed at one dollar um we have to do faika and perf as well
 it might have been from a point of order maybe would you would you be okay would you like to go
 one by one on the categories or i could do a rolling on each um account and just cover
 services and supplies while we're waiting okay let's just go ahead and add a few while kim's
 working on that um so let me just make sure are we okay because he has more under the same
 under the same category yeah but another category the uh the account line so so there's supplies
 and services coming do you want do you need a minute we need to i need okay let's just wait
 sorry we'll just roll them as we can yeah please hold
 okay
 um
 okay i have the new amounts for you all right what are those numbers um
 fika reduction to 128 250 per reduction to 216 531
 okay
 so is there any other further discussion on this motion made by councillor henry
 all right seeing none may we please have a roll call vote
 councillor iverson
 yes councillor henry yes councillor hawke
 i have to come back
 thank you can that councillor vidal yes councillor wilts yes councillor crossley yes councillor
 dickard yes motion passes seven zero all right that is what happens for um county council after
 dark all right let's keep going and the president i'll keep the floor if there's an objection um
 moving in the same um in the same county general moving into supplies category two zero zero zero
 one a reduction to fifteen thousand in this in the office supply category now um i would just say
 go ahead second yeah i would just say my rationale for what's coming is to zero base
 many of these count lines to their last year um there seems to be um a a difference in how
 these line items are budgeted compared to other departments uh that they're a little larger by
 percentage and so one way to go at it is to look at what was done last year and add a roundup where
 appropriate so that's what i'm after here in terms of the method of my madness so for this one it's
 reduced to fifteen thousand okay council you all heard um counselor henry's ration for this item
 Or his motion. Is there anybody else that has any other questions or comments related to this?
 And seeing none, may we please have a roll call vote?
 Councilor fiddle
 Yes, councilor crossley
 Yes, councilor hawke. Yes, councilor wilts
 Yes, councilor henry. Yes, councilor iverson. Yes, councilor decker
 Yes motion passes seven zero
 Keep the train going. Thank you. Madam president in the same county general in the services
 category. Let's move on to line
 three zero zero
 zero three printing and subscriptions to
 reduce to six thousand
 Three zero zero zero four repairs equipment vehicle to four hundred
 Wait a minute
 Three zero zero four. It's already at zero. Is it zeroed? Yes, then skip. Um
 on three zero zero zero eight bank service fees to
 Back to twelve fifty or one two five zero
 In three zero zero two eight
 reduced to one thousand
 And three zero eight zero zero to two thousand and that's with that latter one just for folks
 Is to request an audit of the postage meter so we can determine
 What's sitting on that for additional appropriation?
 That's all
 Need a second second, all right, we got a motion and a second any other further discussion or
 questions
 All right seeing none, may we please have a roll call vote
 Councillor henry. Yes councillor crossley. Yes councillor decker. Yes councillor hawke. Yes councillor
 wilts
 councillor plant
 vital
 Yes councillor iverson. Yes motion passes seven zero
 Let's uh, we'll now move to um, we'll have to catch you later the election fund uh, 1215 dash zero
 zero one zero voter registration
 Um
 Now kim did you get it?
 All right, i'll now wait
 Are you going to voter registration and the voter registration thanks and the uh in the supply
 category two zero zero zero one
 I think that's it
 Yes office supplies reduced to two
 thousand
 And can we just do services now?
 All right, so and then in the services category three zero zero zero three printing and
 subscription
 to
 4,000 three zero zero zero six contractual to five thousand
 Three zero zero two eight training to twenty five hundred
 Three zero zero four one software to one dollar until we get a clarification about that appropriation
 And three zero eight zero zero postage to forty six hundred until clarification second
 We got a motion in a second any other further discussion on that item
 Seeing none, maybe please have a roll call vote
 Counselor dickard, yes counselor fiddle. Yes counselor wilts. Yes counselor henry. Yes counselor
 hop
 Counselor crossley. Yes counselor iverson. Yes motion passes seven zero
 All right, i'm moving on to uh, the next fund election fund election board one two one five dash
 zero zero six two
 Um michelle, i'll ask a question here. Many of these account lines are going to be salary or
 personnel
 So this may take a little work with perf and fica. Would you prefer I go through each, uh,
 Election worker line collectively and we can catch it at the end
 Yes, yeah
 So, um in account line one seven one zero one overtime
 Set this account line to one dollar
 Um
 And account line one seven two zero eight
 Uniforms reduced to one hundred dollars
 Now here comes the the election workers, right? So, um, here's the proposal so, um 17 501
 Gosh my eyes
 And I think the auditor's office head there. Yeah hands question. Yeah, I'm getting ahead of myself
 Thanks carly. Sorry that uniform line. I if
 If agreeable should be zeroed out because it's in a personnel line
 Rather than a supply so it's an error altogether. I amend my comments to zero
 Thank you. Thank you
 Um
 Where do we leave off 17 501?
 Which is inspector's election to fourteen thousand
 Seventeen five zero two to twenty nine thousand
 Seventeen five zero three to sixty five hundred
 Seventeen five zero four to sixty nine thousand
 Nine, yeah, it's down from ninety. Thank you
 Five something, right? Okay
 Seventeen five zero five to one dollar
 It's already there 17 506 to 214 000
 17 507 to 17 000
 17 508 to 9600 17 509 to 4300
 17 510 to 114 000
 17 511 to 45 000
 17
 17 8 0 1 to 27 500 and then we'll need to adjust her perf and FICA
 That concludes my motion madam president on the second. All right, we got a motion and a second. Is
 there any other further?
 Yes counselor
 Parts and rationale for the public is what we're doing here
 so I want to be first clear about our conversation earlier about the sheriff's line that this is
 not the same as a
 Civil servant in a different office reducing the line item of elected official
 It's County Council's obligation to provide the fiscal oversight over this particular account,
 right?
 So it's not quite the same as what we did earlier this evening
 secondly
 What I've done here is to take a look at the 2024
 totals for these elected election worker positions, which as we know had to be
 approved by the commissioners as a as a as a
 The the the rate that folks are getting paid and so what we have is the last sanctified number from
 the commissioners is
 basically 2024 and in cases where the numbers are slightly
 Specific I've rounded up to a whole hundred or whole thousand in some of those lines
 So there's some padding there in terms of rounding it up
 But generally since we did not have an election last year and each one of these account lines show
 a considerable increase
 We're talking about dozens of percentages. It's not three percent
 It's worth setting this to what the commissioners last approved and I think maybe miss Turner came
 if you could remind me
 If we were to adjust this would have to go before the commissioners anyway, wouldn't it?
 So the
 Commissioners set most of the election day workers and council sets most of the absentee board
 workers
 I think this sets a standard regardless of what we're just trying to get to a balance here
 And again, you know
 There's a little time between now and next year if opportunities and resources open up
 We can always revisit this for the general election if there is in fact a surge, but that's my
 rationale for these madam president
 Okay, thank you very much for that
 Anybody else have any other questions or comments related to councillor Henry's motions? Yes councillor
 Decker
 I appreciate the effort on the the budget. I'm not quite there yet, but
 Since these are all movable
 Targets, I'll keep an open mind as we continue to work on this
 Okay, anybody else have any questions
 Seeing none we'll wait is Michelle I'll have to give us a new grand total. So please hold
 And
 Again for people that are gonna watch this playback either cats or however you watch it
 If you see a long pause right now
 We have to address the numbers in real time. And so Michelle
 From council office is doing that in real time
 Sorry
 If I come out was it even was incorrect
 I'm sorry there there if I come out on their report was incorrect on the clerk's report. Yeah
 Molly
 Which which positions go through the claim because then they don't get FICA
, right?
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 [LAUGH]
 >> I'm sorry, man.
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 I drive by it a lot.
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 >> All right.
 [LAUGH]
 >> Sorry, this is my last personnel line, so.
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 >> All right, that makes a difference, okay.
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 >> I wonder.
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 >> Yeah, how did you think I got?
 >> I don't know.
 [INAUDIBLE]
 >> And so again, for people that are watching, if you are noticing a very long pause,
 it is because we are trying to, after the long motions made by Councillor Henry,
 we are trying to get the numbers correct in real time for a new grand total.
 So we appreciate your patience.
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 >> Please hold.
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 >> I thought you were gonna take it out.
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 >> Molly, Molly, I need you one more time.
 I need to sit down.
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 >> [LAUGH]
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 >> [LAUGH]
 >> I'm gonna talk about Michael Jackson.
 >> [LAUGH]
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 >> That's hilarious.
 [LAUGH]
 >> He's so mean though.
 >> My God.
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 >> Well, that's the number I wanted to hear.
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 >> Reducing office supplies to 13,500 in 22022 machine precinct, etc.
 Reducing to 10,000 and 22005, is that, no, is that a three or five?
 >> Three. >> Three, thank you.
 Precinct setup supplies to 5,000.
 >> Second.
 >> All right, we got a motion in a second.
 Mr. Henry, would you like to explain?
 >> Sure, I appreciate it, and maybe I'm trying to look down the table.
 I might be the only former election board president here, I think.
 And so having run a share of elections recently, again,
 this is zero basing list to the previous election's cost as best as possible.
 I think additional appropriations, if the clerk's office wishes to seek them,
 should be brought before us rather than waiting for a reversion at the end of the year
 on items that might be over budgeted.
 >> Sure, okay.
 Okay, any other questions or comments on these items?
 Yes, Councilor Wilts.
 >> It was taking it back to--
 >> These might be averaged, actually.
 I also took averages in the past few elections, too, on some of these.
 But ultimately, it's the year over increase from '24 to this year that we're--
 sorry, if we go back, Kim, if we scoot over and look at previous adopted years,
 you'll see some of these items are significantly bumped up, right?
 And so that's what we're taking a look at.
 But again, these should be items that, if the clerk requires more funding,
 should come back in for it.
 >> Okay.
 Okay.
 So if there's no further questions or comments on this, maybe please have a roll call vote.
 >> Councillor Wilz?
 >> Yes.
 >> Councillor Henry?
 >> Yes.
 >> Councillor Hawke?
 >> Yes.
 >> Councillor Crossley?
 >> Yes.
 >> Councillor Iverson?
 >> Yes.
 >> Councillor Decker?
 >> Yes.
 >> Councillor Feidl?
 >> Yes.
 >> Motion passes 7-0.
 >> Madam President, I have one more in the service category, if I may?
 >> Okay.
 >> Okay.
 So in the services category, Michelle, let's work through some of these.
 On 3-0006 contractual, that item, did we change that?
 >> No.
 >> We did not.
 >> Uh-uh.
 >> Ms. Turner-King, can you remind me which contract that is under contractual?
 >> I'm not sure what's in that contractual line.
 I think the contract you're probably alluding to, as if I can read your mind, is in the
 voting machine custo and in set.
 >> Okay.
 I have that in a minute.
 I just couldn't remember which one we were talking about.
 It's late.
 Leave that alone, Kim.
 We're good.
 3-0028 to the training and travel to 3,000.
 3-0800 postage to 5,000.
 And again, with the understanding, we'd like to get a look at the postage meter.
 3-1650.
 This one, I believe, and this is the question, Ms. Turner-King, so is this appropriation
 the two -- like all -- both years of the contract in one line item?
 Or is it -- because this looks large, but it's not $350 a year in that contract, right?
 Is there any way -- Auditor Breanne, do you know what's going on with that?
 I've got the contract.
 Okay.
 So I do believe that's Mr. White's contractor, the B&L IT Services, and it is a contract
 that lasts for two years, so it expires December 31st of 2026.
 That year of the agreement is not to exceed $200,000, or $250,000, so I think it's the
 full contract amount.
 For this item, Michelle, if we can reduce to $250,000.
 For item 32001 to 12500, $12,500, for item 32004, which is I believe freight to $1 -- there's
 no previous items on that in previous years, correct?
 Yeah.
 For 32005, $500, which I think there was an item -- yeah, this one needs addressing in
 code because there have been changes in legal notices on code recently, right, about where
 we post things and papers and such.
 32006 to 85,000, 32008 to 7500, 32010, which is polling places to $1, and 38200 to $2500.
 That concludes my --
 Second.
 Okay.
 You got a motion and a second.
 Is there any other further questions or comments related to this?
 Yes.
 A simple one?
 Yes.
 So in the 31650 line where it says voting machine -- ED and SAT, what's ED and SAT?
 I would think, I would think.
 All the hands went up over there, so yes.
 Councillor Henry, if you wanted information about that general contractual line, 306, I
 have the ledger in front of me.
 Is that Hart?
 Pardon?
 Is that a general contract for them to do same-day election work?
 There's several things in there, all safe storage, no link, LLC, imaging office systems,
 Pitney Bowes, shredding and storage, B and L IT services, mailing solutions.
 I also want to note that this year there have been several, a couple transfers out.
 So out of the $130,000 appropriation, 76 remained for use.
 I think I'm happy not to disturb that one based on election year activity that seems
 really close.
 I think the previous election year is 139 something, is that right?
 Yep.
 For 2024.
 Yeah, I'm not addressing that tonight.
 And Ms. Turner-King had her hand up too.
 I wanted to make a comment about that truck rental line.
 I believe when the clerk was here, she indicated that's the truck rental line for U-Hauls on
 election day.
 That is encompassed in that B and L contract.
 And the contractor is supposed to reimburt or supposed to submit invoices and we would
 reimburse it under the contractual line.
 So I'm not sure why there is the need for a separate truck rental line.
 I would entertain an amendment to a dollar on that until we figure it out.
 Second.
 Okay.
 All right.
 We got a motion and a second to reduce the truck rental line item down to zero?
 No, one dollar.
 Okay.
 I see it is purple in front of me.
 Okay.
 So the truck rental is now down to one dollar.
 Is there any, I feel like an auctioneer, any questions, any questions or comments related
 to this?
 All right.
 All right.
 Seeing none.
 All those in favor of reducing this line item to one dollar signify by saying aye.
 Aye.
 Aye.
 All right.
 All those opposed, same sign.
 All right.
 Motion carries.
 So now we come back to the overall.
 Okay.
 And is there any real time number here?
 Or is there any other changes Michelle that you need to make?
 Our new bottom line for election board.
 All right.
 So may we please have a roll call vote on this item?
 Council Henry?
 Yes.
 Councilor Hawk?
 Yes.
 Councilor Crossley?
 Yes.
 Councilor Iverson?
 Yes.
 Councilor Decker?
 Yes.
 Councilor Feidl?
 Yes.
 Okay.
 Okay.
 I yield back.
 I'm done with that.
 Okay.
 We reclaim time.
 Okay.
 All right.
 Uh-huh.
 Do I dare ask if anybody else has anything for the greater good of the order related
 to motions?
 Not there yet, right?
 We're nowhere near there yet.
 Right.
 And I recognize that we've got some buffer with our operating balances.
 Oh.
 But I do think that -- sorry, that's not picking up.
 Okay.
 My notes indicate doing some more sweeping kinds of things, like looking at capital across
 the board and maybe going through -- why are you looking so sad?
 So we could also -- we could do that.
 We could also look at overtime lines.
 I know we've addressed that here, and my thought was, if we could get a better handle on the
 overtime for each of the departments, I know we have some reports that could be pulled
 up.
 I think that we could maybe craft something overall.
 Can we have that discussion?
 So I move that we do that, but it's not opening a specific budget because it's going to be
 in various budgets.
 Second.
 Okay.
 So the motion, if I understand, because there was a second, is to open up a discussion.
 And we don't have any more amendments as of now to make.
 My understanding is that we open a discussion all over time.
 That sounds like a great idea.
 All right.
 We'll see y'all.
 We definitely have to get a handle on that.
 And the auditor's office usually sends a report of what the overtime looks like.
 And so this is something that has been a long time coming and it is much necessary and needed.
 And so it's not picking on particular individuals, but it is an overall county-wide look at how
 we can reduce these lines related to overtime.
 So I will look at other people that have insightful conversations and I will look at Councilor
 Iverson.
 Thank you.
 Insightful is generous.
 My question is, I was under the understanding that a resolution on this topic was forthcoming.
 Is there a status update on that?
 I have a draft resolution that none of you have ever seen that I'm happy to share with
 you now.
 1030 at night.
 Let's do some live editing.
 Yeah.
 Does it reduce our appropriations?
 I didn't really know what you wanted to -- hold on.
 I have to join the meeting so I can share this with you.
 I wasn't 100% sure what you wanted in this resolution, so I started off with the baseline
 of eliminating all the overtime lines.
 Except for four because I went back and looked at meetings, there was a discussion to that
 effect, I didn't just make that up.
 Except for four, which was facilities with 24-hour operations, so sheriff, jail, YSB,
 and then -- or department responsible for responding to natural disasters or cleanups, highways,
 the department.
 And then for those departments, there would be a reporting requirement so that they could
 not -- ideally you would set the line at what you think their overtime expense would be
 and then the resolution would restrict them from moving anything into that line without
 coming to ask for approval from counsel.
 I like the spirit of that.
 And then I know Ms. Turner-King was trying to -- or join the meeting so she could share
 her screen, so there -- and this discussion was, I think, from like week two of budget
 hearing, where we were seeing an enormous amount of overtime lines coming to us.
 And I think that was -- actually, I don't want to put words in her mouth, but Counselor
 Hawke had mentioned something about making sure that we can have people come back to
 the council instead of just being able to transfer into that particular lawn from other
 lawn items in their budget.
 So that was a conversation that was had, if I do recall.
 So any other -- as we have Ms. Turner-King pulling that information up, does anybody
 else have any other things that they wanted to add to that?
 >> I would just say that also comports with my memory and also some of my concerns that
 I would have over taking a one-size-fits-all approach to overtime, that there are those
 departments that we need to be, you know, mindful of, and we could potentially include the airport
 folks, but that's up for discussion and debate.
 >> Yes, Counselor Decker.
 >> I'm sorry, I was going to say I sent you guys a report or a link to the reports on
 all of those, and we have made some progress on some of that.
 So I might be able to filter if you want to see what the departments -- the departments
 that you haven't done, you know, like is the jail, the sheriff.
 There's animal control, there is the extradition, that one's $500, I can't remember whose extradition,
 is that prosecutor?
 I want to say it's prosecutor, but I'm not sure.
 You've already taken care of the election fund, and that's it.
 So I mean, all of the others that you really need to figure out what you want to do with
 are the sheriff jail highway.
 >> So I think Councillor Decker had his hand up.
 So are you sure?
 Okay.
 Okay, so I'm just going to skip the whereas clauses, can we work on those and get to the
 meat and bones here.
 So under now therefore be it resolved, clause one would remove department budget over timelines
 in all departments except for 24-hour operations, or departments responsible for responding
 to weather conditions and/or natural disasters.
 So the exempted departments are specifically sheriff, correctional, YSB and highway department.
 Then it says for the exempted departments with an overtime budget the council expects
 and encourages elected officials and/or department heads to judicially manage the overtime expense
 for those departments the council implements the following requirements if within these
 departments a need arises to conduct a transfer involving an overtime line.
 So transfer in or out.
 The elected official wishing to make the transfer will request to be on a council agenda to
 have their in-house transfer approved.
 It's the elected official or department head's responsibility to submit their additional
 appropriation request in accordance with council deadlines and before the overtime line is
 fully expended.
 And then when they, along with their agenda request, I put some things in that I think
 might be helpful for you guys, which includes the number of overtime hours used by the department
 as of the date of request.
 So what have they used?
 What is the cost of what they used?
 That's two.
 Three is why did they use it?
 So the reasons.
 Four, the amount of anticipated need in the overtime line.
 So how much are they asking for?
 Why are they asking for it is five.
 And then the number of comp time hours accrued by the department so you can maybe get an
 idea of comp time usage versus overtime.
 Okay.
 Yes.
 Councilor Wills.
 I have a couple of questions, actually.
 Do all of the departments with overtime lines have comp timelines as well?
 I think it depends on the position.
 So if you think about the, for example, there was a line in the sheriff's budget for administrative
 positions overtime, those would have comp time.
 I'm not sure about the deputies, they get comp time.
 The other question I have is about the airport, which Councilor Iverson mentioned, they do
 not have overtime, they have comp time, but they have an inordinate amount of banked comp
 time.
 And I've spoken with Carlos about this and kind of asking why, they respond to weather
 emergencies and they have required late night obligations and they have a staff of eight,
 so they're not able to spread that out over everything.
 I think as much as Carlos may hate me for suggesting that he manage overtime, it might
 be a better use of that department's resources to have overtime as an option.
 And I say that because if you look at the comp time report, aviation is very high and
 although we don't have to pay that right now, we do have to pay that at some point.
 And I don't know what that means, you know, in terms of setting their hours or limits,
 we would need to take a quick look, but, you know.
 >> Counselor Henry.
 >> Thank you.
 I guess that was for my -- that was where I was going to go next.
 So when an employee leaves, just to refresh my memory, what fund does the comp time come
 out of when it's cashed out?
 >> It comes out of the fund that they are in.
 So like for aviation, it comes out of the aviation fund.
 >> Okay.
 So that, and then is there a use it or lose it on this for --
 >> For comp time.
 >> Okay.
 Well, those are probably two things we probably need to address down the pike in terms of
 how much you can use it within a fiscal or within a month, which is kind of standard
 practice in the private sector.
 >> That's in the personnel policy said by the commissioners, the prosecutor, and presiding
 judge.
 I know that it currently caps employees at 40 hours of comp time and there was discussions
 on moving it to 60 hours, and that's to mimic one of our collective bargaining units.
 And so I need to revisit with those three entities if we're increasing the number of hours that
 employees can bank as far as comp time.
 >> Councilor Iverson.
 >> That raises another point that I wanted to make sure we touched on here.
 The two departments that use the most overtime, the budgets, is the jail and MVH, motor vehicle
 highway.
 Election.
 >> I'm not sure if it's the jail and I think it might be correctional and then the sheriff's
 office.
 >> That's fine because that continues to make my point.
 We have to contend with collective bargaining with some of this, don't we?
 >> Correct.
 And as a reminder, it is a highway collective bargaining year and we're in the process of
 working on that bargaining agreement.
 I know that Mr. Cockrell last spoke with the bargaining unit on what they would like to
 see.
 And there's some clauses in there I think we need to readdress and one of them specifically
 is the overtime.
 Because for highway, there's a clause that indicates that depending on whether they're
 in regular hours or summer hours, they get a minimum payout of four to five hours of
 overtime even if they're out for 15 minutes.
 That's a standard clause in most of our collective bargaining agreements that there's a minimum
 callout time payout.
 Now the minimum hours differ amongst the collective bargaining agreements.
 >> I think I remember this from talking with the sheriff's deputies.
 It's basically to make it worth their time to have come in on a completely -- on shift
 day or -- >> I think that -- I mean, for the sheriff's
 office, if it's canceled within an X amount of time, they don't get the minimum, but usually
 it takes them some time to get ready and like come across the county, and so it was to compensate
 once a certain period of time elapsed, that they were technically going to get paid a minimum
 amount of hours.
 >> Okay.
 I also want to look at the time, too, because it is now 1043, and so we've done a lot of
 work tonight, and again, this isn't necessarily -- I know we knew it was going to be a long
 conversation, but I just want to just remind us of the time, and staff time, as well as
 we are in this meeting, so yes, speaking of overtime, that's it.
 Ding.
 Yes, Ms. Sterneke.
 >> I'm happy to send this draft resolution to council for review, and then we can revisit
 it on the 23rd or whenever.
 I think that is something that would be helpful, so that we can come back next week and take
 a look into this as well, so yes, Councillor Henry.
 >> It's a point of information maybe being -- I'll just put on my new person hat, so
 do we have what's necessary for posting or publishing at this point, because I understand
 folks are tired, but we have a calendar to meet.
 So are we there?
 >> Yes, Ms. Gregory.
 >> If I may, yes, actually, we were just conferring about that.
 If there are any funds that need to be advertised that aren't currently budgeted, we need to
 be aware of that if you want them to go through this process and not have to do additional
 appropriations in January.
 So any funds that you are considering utilizing, we just need some direction on that.
 >> We're utilizing all of them.
 >> Talking funds that we haven't in the past, like for economic development or other things
 like that.
 >> So food and beverage is one that we have talked about, and at some point we need to
 talk about what could be moved into food and beverage, and we need to talk about that with
 the commissioners.
 >> Of course, the FABTAC would have to do that, but before the FABTAC, I think the commissioners
 and council would need to discuss.
 >> Ms. Gregory.
 >> I know currently existing in the plan is parks and recreation, however, there's also
 potential for aviation.
 I know that legal would have to bless that, obviously, all the groups would have to agree,
 but those are the two areas that we were pondering.
 >> Food and beverage tax, because this is also something that I feel like I have this
 in my notes, too, because we know that rural transit has to come back around again, that
 might be grasping for straws, because would that be something that we could also use food
 and beverage tax dollars for?
 >> I'm going to defer to legal.
 Sorry, I was briefly talking about food and beverage with Mr. Cockrell today, and I think
 we can write a memo and send it to council if we kind of have an idea of what expenses
 you were looking at putting in there.
 So if you wanted to email me what you were thinking, I will gladly write a memo, because
 I think it's going to be fact-dependent on what the expense is, if we can argue for it
 to go into food and beverage.
 >> Okay.
 Yes, Councillor Decker.
 >> Well, I was just going to say, between parks and the airport alone, I think you could
 make an extremely credible case about those being highly impactful destinations that complement
 regional destinations as well.
 I mean, good heavens the airport had more guest airplanes out there two weekends ago
 than you could shake a stick at.
 Andrew and I were taking selfies with every one of them.
 And that kind of artfulness will be what we have to do to get through some of this.
 >> Yes, Councillor.
 >> So the only question is, we have to advertise that.
 That's the timeline.
 So it's either -- it's not happening tonight because of the meetings we have to do with
 commissioners and the food and beverage tax board, right?
 So that's not going to be on the table for advertising.
 Is that correct?
 We have a timeline here.
 So I'm just trying to understand how we can get there if we're going to use that resource.
 >> I -- this is not a situation I've been -- that's come before us in the past.
 So I think it would be presumptuous to advertise and we could just appropriate in 2026 if that
 were to happen.
 I don't know exactly.
 I'm sorry.
 >> I just wanted to remind you that Highway is proposing putting some things into stormwater,
 but they're not going to have a stormwater meeting until later this month.
 But it will be prior to the public hearing.
 So there will be hopefully some movement with regards to MVH, you know, positions as well.
 So -- and I've already talked to the auditor, we're going to have to just assume that we're
 going to be moving things and so we're going to have to advertise high enough for stormwater
 as well.
 So --
 >> Yeah.
 Ms. Gregory?
 >> One more thought.
 I'm not sure if there's an appetite to advertise the local health maintenance fund and local
 health department trust account.
 I know we have some things budgeted in there.
 So should we advertise at the cash balance then, probably, so you can consider more if
 it's appropriate?
 >> I would think so.
 >> Okay.
 >> Again, I think the goal is to advertise --
 >> As high as possible?
 >> Yes.
 >> Okay.
 >> Not necessarily saying that's where we're going.
 But again, just to be on the safe side, yeah, that would be helpful.
 >> Hearing that, then do you want us to advertise food and beverage or not at this time?
 >> That's a different way to get people upset with you, yeah, I don't think that's different.
 >> Because you have to get the board to agree to it and remember it has to be the commissioners
 that go to ask for it.
 >> Correct.
 So the idea is maybe Ms. Turner-King had mentioned that she can work on a memo with Mr. Cockrell.
 So the idea is if we have any ideas related to food and beverage tax in the meantime.
 So we won't do any, because we don't want to make people upset.
 The idea is to send Ms. Turner-King information related to what you think what could possibly
 be used for food and beverage.
 When would you like to have that information by?
 >> The sooner the better.
 I've already been looking at the statute.
 So I can start applying it to potential -- >> Okay.
 So let's just get it to her as soon as possible.
 Yes.
 Counselor Hoppe.
 >> Right.
 At what point are we going to or are we going to consider a pause on hiring, you know, just
 to get the information out there?
 >> Well, I do want to kind of bring us back to the circle here.
 We did have a discussion to open -- we had a motion on the floor to open up conversation
 related to -- no, no, no, no, no, but that's a good point.
 So I just -- Counselor Iverson reminded me of that.
 So we do have a motion on the floor.
 And then that is something that we can go to next.
 So the motion was to have the discussion and open up related to overtime.
 So we did that.
 Yeah, so -- >> And we took a left turn somewhere.
 >> Yeah, I think we kind of wrapped that up with Ms. King's doing a resolution that she's
 going to send to us and we're going to maybe look at it next week, or yeah, next week.
 And then you are trying to move us along.
 >> I'm so trying to do so.
 So yeah.
 >> So that was just to open up for a discussion.
 You guys have had your discussion.
 You guys know what to do so we can move on.
 >> Okay.
 So moving along.
 So to Councilor Honk's point, would you like to restate your point?
 >> I just think, and we've been thinking about this since we had that long-term finance meeting,
 that we should put a major pause on doing anything until we could see where we were going to be.
 Last May we are in a worse shape than what we thought we were going to be in, or at least
 I think we are.
 This is tough.
 And to add more to the pain by filling slots and so forth, I think we might want to just
 put a temporary hiring freeze on so we'll know where we are and hopefully the departments
 will understand that if we fill these slots, it might be at some point in the not too distant
 future that we won't be able to keep everybody.
 I mean, that sounds difficult.
 I don't want us to get to that point.
 >> Councillor Iverson.
 >> Well, I completely agree that that is -- I don't want us to get to that point either,
 but I think it's probably prudent that we ask the legal -- our legal counsel to -- we've
 done this before, and something drafted might be what's on call here.
 >> Well, in anticipation of this very conversation, I have a draft that I will be emailing you.
 >> Well, there you go.
 >> And we'll go ahead and do that immediately, nothing further, and then we'll make the final
 decision when we receive the draft, because by the time we meet again, there could be
 five more people hired, or six, or whatever.
 >> So before anybody hires, they send us a letter, an email.
 So let's watch our emails.
 And yeah, I think once we pass it, it would be -- if we're passing a resolution that is
 a hiring freeze, it is prudent to make it effective immediately.
 >> Yes.
 >> But then also time-sensitive, right, you want it to sunset or have the option for counsel
 to reconsider at some point, which I'm sure is in what's going to be emailed to us.
 >> Yes.
 So the idea is Ms. Turner-King will take a look into -- or she will send that to counsel,
 and then we will discuss that also in the same breath that we will have for next Tuesday.
 But I guess in the meantime, anybody that has any objections, kind of like what we were
 doing earlier this year, where since we were doing, you know, with the pack pause and whatnot,
 is to, like, object, and then that has to come to the counsel.
 So that is something that we can definitely do, and I get Counselor Hawks's point.
 So yes.
 Counsel Henry.
 >> Are we ready to move on from this because I had maybe some other housekeeping for the
 advertising to bring up?
 >> I had one.
 >> I want to make sure that we have everybody that has -- so, yes, Counsel Henry.
 >> I had one related item to that, and that is I think we very seriously need to consider
 suspending or minimizing or taking a much smaller rate, pausing our with services.
 We are on a pack freeze.
 We're talking about a hiring freeze.
 The council has to demonstrate alongside everyone else, sacrifice, and we can't -- if things
 are as they say, we can't be the only county having that sort of issue, and I don't know
 frankly how we could be engaging them much in good conscience, and I don't ever hear
 them come up right now.
 I'm not saying that they don't come back into the factor, but I just cannot see expending
 dollars towards something that's just not doing it.
 PAC's not really had anything in a while.
 So we need to figure that out if that's a possibility, and if it's not, maybe needs
 to be some form of it.
 >> And that's on Ms. Turner-Keene.
 >> Just for clarity, we're currently not getting a WISP invoice with the pack freeze, so as
 long as the pack freeze is in place, it in essence has frozen our WISP spending.
 >> So the current budget before us, that's not a factor?
 >> It's in the budget, I think.
 >> Yes, it's in the budget because I budgeted because I didn't know if we were going to
 continue the PAC pause or not.
 >> So I think one conversation council needs to consider is that PAC freeze resolution
 sunsets and whether you're extending it and to what degree it would be extended.
 >> I just think if we've got that in that line, that can come down considerably, because
 these days we talk more FSG than WIS.
 >> Yeah, and I would agree, and I think that's another thing that needs to be brought up
 if we're underneath the same tone of talking about a higher end freeze is that we also
 need to continue on with the KSA and the PAC pause just the same.
 >> And to this point, we are budgeting $30,000 for WIS in the 2026 budget, and that is put
 in place such that if we do all of a sudden need it, we can use it, but we're not using
 it.
 So to Ms. Turner-King's point, if we don't sunset the PAC pause and we extend it for another
 year, that might be a decision that this body makes before adoption so that we can change
 that WIS number.
 And maybe not taking it down to zero, that makes me a little nervous, but reducing it
 by a little bit.
 Well, I have our contractual, it's set at 60,000, I've got it on the screen.
 So 30,000 is for FSG, 30,000 is for WIS because that's about what we would run through a year.
 So I mean, if you want to just take it down to 30,000 and then if for some reason I need
 to come back, then I'll just have to come back or move things around the best I can.
 So moved.
 Second.
 All right.
 So we got a motion and a second on reducing line 3006 contractual down to 30.
 Is there any additional comments, questions or concerns on this?
 Thank you, Kim Schell.
 All right.
 Seeing none, all those in favor of reducing this line item to 30,000 signify by saying
 aye.
 Aye.
 All those opposed, same sign.
 All right, so I know before I go to Councilor Henry, since he had something else that he
 wanted to move on to related to housekeeping and the advertising rates, is there anything
 else related to this item that anybody wanted to make comment on?
 Nope.
 Okay.
 So Councilor Henry.
 So again, in the spirit of cleaning up for advertising, so there are some other lit to
 talk about.
 There's Corrections Lit, there's Special Purpose Lit, and there's the Edit.
 If we're going to utilize those funds, I suppose we'd have to advertise that this week too.
 So I would just raise it to my fellow Councilors if we're looking to tap into any of that to
 balance either the Service Bureau or, yeah, Corrections Lit, Edit.
 I think the goal is, because of the cash balance that was in the Special Purpose Lit, that
 is something that we should keep an eye on.
 I don't, and I'll look to the Auditor's Office for guidance on this too.
 I think definitely next year that's something that we need to revisit, but do you think
 that is something that we need to do as of right now?
 I don't, I don't think we should, as we know it's put aside for a specific purpose.
 I just need direction if you'd like me to proceed.
 So it sounds like no, collectively, but I'm just looking for a direction so we have everything
 necessary ready to go.
 So we say no to the Special Purpose, then that's definitely a pin that we need to put
 into next year for 2027 conversation, because I remember that coming up next or last week
 about us being mindful of that balance.
 So in terms of edit, is there any appetite, since we did hear it mentioned, I believe
 in night one or two a budget to kind of dip into edit for some of the items here.
 So let's say you counsel, I mean, I guess the worst case scenario is we advertise it
 and we don't use it.
 And so I think that is the goal there is to say, we just put we're putting all the cards
 on the table, and to say that we're trying to look at any and everything to kind of do
 all the moving pieces, however, if we don't use it, it's okay.
 So yes, counselor, everything.
 And I just I want to reiterate that we have in the past earmarked that for bonding purposes
 for the justice center, and I will remind counsel that at a unanimous vote, the commissioners
 approved the architectural designs, and so that we are making those decisions in in that
 environment.
 And, and so I just want to remind Council President Crossley, you're absolutely right.
 We can advertise and end up not using it or we can use it.
 You know, I think that needs to be said that that we are in that environment.
 Yes.
 Yes, counselor.
 Thank you.
 I think the good news is tonight.
 You know, we have packed away at a deficit, but we still have a deficit budget.
 So at some point, we have sequester or recovered funds in the county that previous councils
 have you have voted on, but there's a new iteration of council, there's two new members
 here and everything has changed since that election.
 And so, so we have a lot of circumstances, not least of which the proposed cost of the
 facility since November of last year.
 So I'm not going to live in the past on this.
 I wasn't here.
 I was a different human than as chair of a political party vehemently against building
 the size of the facility, citing our own Democratic National Committee standards on what
 alternative
 justice and restorative justice looks like.
 So that's not settled.
 But what is what we have before us is a budget sitting here with a hole in it.
 And we have some instruments available to us.
 It may just be advertising it, we may fill that gap as departments realize that we're
 considering using some of those instruments and close that gap.
 But I think I think I appreciate counsel Iverson's comment, but at the same time, I wasn't here
 to vote for that.
 And it's just it's a it's a it's a things have changed.
 So that's it.
 Yes.
 Councillor Hawke.
 Yes, I, I don't have an objection to proceeding with advertising for that, but I would like
 very much just to make certain that we don't try to put personnel in there.
 We cannot grow our personnel expenses out of pulling at something that's going to save
 us for the day, because there's that personal expense will be still in place the year thereafter.
 And this fund is going to be used for something else entirely.
 I mean, I, you know, even if you pulled out rainy day for a major, you know, some kind
 of problem, but it cannot go for trying to keep the race in place or trying to keep the
 number of employees.
 It really cannot, because we're just digging the hole deeper.
 It was, yeah, that's a, that's a good point.
 So yes, so is there any objection to counsel to advertise it again?
 This is not saying that we're all in agreement of using it for whatever reason we possibly
 could use it for.
 But to advertise it is something that we can do.
 But I know that there is the appetite of counsel to kind of look at other funds and other ways
 and means and maybe not use that.
 Yes, Ms. Turner King.
 And for clarity, I think it would help if the auditor had some direction when we advertise.
 Do you want to edit and maybe even correctional lit advertised in all categories?
 Because I know Councilor Hawk was just saying maybe not personnel.
 So is it advertised in all categories?
 As a just in case?
 I mean, I think that would be a better way of doing that, again, not setting it as stone.
 But that is yes, yes, my thought is just it's I think this would be enough wiggle room.
 Like if I do $2 million in each category, for example, that should be plenty.
 I'm sure you won't go anywhere near that.
 But does that sound reasonable?
 Okay.
 Does anybody else have any objections?
 I will not object to us putting options on the table.
 But I appreciate very much what Council Iverson said to remind us of the larger picture.
 And I was on that council and I was the president of that council that went after this plan
 because for many years council struggled to get our correction facility moving and we
 got it moving.
 I want us to have every option on the table, but I also want us to be very careful with
 what happens so much with taxing bodies and that is the bait and switch.
 I get this here as I told tell you I get I take public comments and then we get down
 the road and we go actually you know why I like to get little Debbie's when I go on my
 lunch break.
 So I'm going to spend it on that.
 And I just want us to be very cautious about that because that's not what was said.
 That's not what was promised.
 Now the legislature has done some things clearly we're here tonight.
 We have heard they may do some more things and I know that hope is not a strategy.
 But one thing that is a strategy that we've done very well tonight is we've worked through
 one of the biggest problems I've ever seen this have in reducing this number counselor
 Henry counselor Iverson and others have really come through with numbers I think that there's
 probably more numbers in here yet to be found.
 I also counsel I'll have to tell you, I hear a lot of people that want to eat everything
 off of the menu and every different kind, but we can't run a restaurant with that big
 a menu.
 We have continuously said things that are priorities and that we've made new priorities
 and new priorities and new priorities.
 We have a minimum cash balance resolution that was made and crafted in in times that
 said I'll hold a little bit for this and a little bit for that and then you have the
 rainy day funds, and I have to tell you folks I'm not saying to plead that, and I appreciate
 the chambers comment on on all this earlier to start the night, but you can't continue
 to say that the preferences and the way that you order things are going to dictate things
 so that you completely then begin to lose sight of things that have needed to be done
 for decades here, right, and so I just, I don't want us to get that false assumption
 I also don't want that bait and switch on taxation, because you know why out there that's
 what they expect us to do, because that happens all the time, right, and not to belabor it
 but it's late might as well stay a couple minutes more.
 We've got a Congress that literally cannot ever pass a budget, and they're operating
 in deficit and they've done things that will mess with us.
 We've got a state that they just changed the rules as they go.
 We have to get this done.
 And we also have to face the people that need the services.
 So we've just got to be very careful with all of that.
 I'm always open for the option to if I had to crawl from here to the Ohio line over glass
 I do for this county.
 But that said, we got to be very careful about the convenient option that may not be as convenient
 as what we promised.
 Five, six million that we have to cut, I mean, where are we?
 Carly.
 Carly has it ready if you'd like to see it.
 Yes.
 Yeah.
 Three million one seven one four four three.
 Is that what you're looking for?
 Okay.
 Is that how much more we still have to cut?
 No, that's the number that we've overall done.
 She's plugging it in.
 But I mean, just in that as we were like at six million.
 You got to remember also that we're going to make that self insurance adjustment as well.
 So that's going to bring.
 So that's not in there yet.
 No, I can't do that.
 I know.
 I understand.
 But that's about a million, two million, three million ish.
 Yeah.
 Because we went we were originally thinking 16,000 and now it's 16.5.
 Oh, yeah.
 So that's it.
 So that will knock another million off.
 So I mean, again, when we started this evening, it was a lot.
 So I know we we cannot get dismay.
 I know like we did a heck of a lot of work tonight with a lot of things.
 And I appreciate council really stepping up and doing that.
 So yes, it is.
 We still I see you.
 So we got we still got some ways to go.
 But again, we did accomplish a nice chunk of that.
 So yes, Councillor Henry.
 OK, so to keep you know, as we're watching the clock, so it sounds like what we need
 to do is figure out the advertised rate for some funds we may tap.
 We understand we have aviation and parks to look at still.
 I think I don't know if we've actually resolved the double budgeting of motor highway vehicle
 yet.
 Yes.
 That's included.
 All right.
 So there's some funds.
 There's some things we start to look at to try to move some things around.
 We've talked about tapping some we need to put an advertised rate out if we're going
 to use these these funds.
 Is that right?
 So it sounds like that's where I think we have to go.
 That's what I was saying.
 So I don't.
 Yeah, I don't think it's worth opining much more about the priorities.
 I think we've said COLA is the priority in the letter, but I don't know.
 I mean, so at this point, it sounds like we're just drilling toward what the advertised rates
 are going to be for the lits that we are proposing.
 And then hopefully we can whittle this number down between now and then before we touch
 them.
 Is that right?
 So is there so because we talked about using like the person or the person or the categories
 for the 80 lit and whatnot at the two million.
 So the idea is right now without if there's no other objection, and it didn't seem like
 it is to go ahead and advertise high.
 And when they go high, hopefully we go low.
 That's a smart woman once said that.
 So that being the case, that is what we are going to aim to do.
 So without with that being said, is there anything else that you all need from counsel
 to make the decision in terms of advertising?
 Is there anything else that we need?
 Okay.
 Okay.
 So without that being further ado, does anybody else have anything else related to the 2026
 budget?
 Yes, counselor.
 Does this require a motion to post?
 I mean, do we need the number stated and what we're advertising for those two lids?
 No.
 Okay.
 We just, yeah, you just advertise it.
 No motion.
 Yes.
 You got it from us.
 No objections.
 So we're all good.
 Okay.
 Counsel, we are not going to be doing any council liaison updates this evening.
 So sorry.
 Thank you.
 That really, heck no.
 I mean, you know, counsel Hawke, I know you like your fair, so I wanted to see if you
 wanted to talk of a good story, but that being said, I do appreciate everybody staying almost
 close to the midnight hour to get this stuff done.
 And hey, guess what, sometimes, or this meeting still went a little earlier than city council
 goes sometimes.
 So with that being said, without nothing else that needs to be said, we got our marching
 orders and we will continue to come back and chip at this, but we are adjourned.
 Thank you.
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