- We will go ahead and get started because we have some things I think folks want to talk about this evening.
- So welcome everybody to today's County Council meeting. Today is Tuesday, May 26, 2026. I will call
- this meeting to order since we have a quorum. Here in the Natt U Hill room, we have Councilors Hawk,
- Iverson, Deckard, Wilts, and Feidl.
- I believe Council Member Henry is going to be joining us virtually. I don't see him as of yet, but I
- believe he will be virtual. So all those that are able to stand, please stand for the reciting of the
- Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the Black of the United States of America and to the Republic
- for which it stands, one nation,
- Under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay, thank you very much. We will move on
- to the adoption of tonight's agenda. Does anybody wish to amend tonight's agenda? All right, seeing
- no amendments. And because we don't have Councilmember Henry just yet, we can do this by voice vote.
- So all those in favor of adopting tonight's agenda as presented signify by saying aye. Aye. All those
- opposed same sign. Okay. Motion carries.
- Next up, we will have item number four, which is public comment. So those are usually, well, not usually
- they are, for public comment for items not on the agenda. So if there are members of the public that
- are here tonight that would like to speak to items not on tonight's agenda, you can come forward to
- the lectern here in the NETU Hill Room, or if you are in Teams land, you can raise your hand. Each person
- that would like to make a public comment on tonight, or items not on tonight's agenda,
- You will state your name for the record and you'll have up to three minutes. Do we have anybody? No,
- we will move this on. All right, so next up we will have department updates and oh, I thought I saw
- a hand briefly. It was. Okay. All right.
- going to keep going. I saw a little yellow hand raise up, and so I'm just going to keep going. OK, so
- for department updates, those are items not on the agenda. So if there is a department update that's
- present here in the NETU Hill Room, or if you are virtual, again, you can come forward to the lectern
- here, and you'll have up to 10 minutes for items not on tonight's agenda.
- Okay, so we will move on to our consent agenda items. And before we get into the meat and potatoes of
- our meeting, I know that we have a lot of folks that are here present in the room and probably in virtual
- land as well. So I asked my colleagues if we can expedite through this agenda so that we can get to
- the heavy topic at hand.
- All right, so next up is item number six, which is our consent agenda items. Council, please note that
- there was a Scrivener's error with regards to the February 4th joint executive session minutes. The
- correct date is April 2nd, which was included in the meeting packet. I move to approve the following
- consent agenda items for May 26th. A, the approval of the following summary minutes as presented,
- April 2nd, 2026 joint executive session of council and commissioners.
- 30th 2026 joint executive session of council and commissioners April 14th 2026 County Council meeting
- April 28th 2026 County Council meeting and item be the highway department's request and find 1176 dash
- zero zero zero zero motor vehicle highway for a category transfer of $4,000 from the services category
- to the supplies category All right. We got a motion and a second. Is there any
- Um, just further discussion from council members on this, uh, consent agenda items. And it also looks
- like we have council member Henry that is joining us virtually as well. Okay. Seeing none, because we
- need to do this, uh, as a roll call vote. Uh, maybe please have a roll call vote. Councillor Crossley. Yes. Yes.
- Councillor Fiddle. Yes. Councillor Hawke. Yes. Councillor Wilts. Yes. Councillor Henry. Yes. It is his
- face. There it is. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Councillor Decker. Yes. Motion passes unanimous.
- Next up are items regarding the hiring freeze review, which is item number seven. Council, I move to
- open for discussion and possible approval of the technical service department's request to be exempt
- from the hiring freeze and be allowed to hire in fund 1138-0000 cumulative capital development fund,
- a full-time help desk slash remote desktop technician. Second. Okay. Welcome. Good evening, everyone.
- Unfortunately we've had a position come open in our office that is one of our full time technical support
- positions. The help desk remote support position is actually the first line of defense we have in our
- office. When calls are placed to our main line number the help desk operator is the one answering that.
- They typically address
- smaller tickets, updates, things like that that they can help the user with remotely, anything above
- that, they start dispatching onto the other techs, or if it's a web issue onto the web team
- or telecommunications, whatever it needs dispatched to. This person in this position is also responsible
- for one week of the every four week on-call rotation we have that's shared with the other three full-time
- technicians that's in that section. So in the interim,
- Because we have been without the position filled fully for a little while We've redistributed the duties
- as best we could our webmaster our office manager Never hesitate to pick up the phone and answer when
- people call to try to help out the on calls been moved around to try to keep certain to
- keep our three techs from being overburdened with comp time or having to flex out which leaves us short
- as well so this is a very vital position to our office which all are we don't have a lot of fat in our
- budget there if you want to put it that way for lack of a better term and I do count on each and every
- one of my people to be there and present so I'd appreciate the consideration to fill the vacancy thank
- you very much does anybody have any questions
- on this item. All right. Seeing none, we will move on to public comment. If there's public comment on
- this item, you can raise your hand via Teams or come forward to the lectern here in the room. And seeing
- none, may we please have a roll call vote? Councillor Iverson? Yes. Councillor Feidl? Yes. Councillor
- Hock? Yes.
- Councillor Henry? Yes. Councillor Deckard? Yes. Councillor Crossley? Yes. Motion passes unanimous. Okay.
- Thank you. Thank you very much. Up is county council business item number eight with emergency management.
- Council I move to approve the Emergency Management Department's Request and Fund 4938-9626 Emergency
- Management Duke Grant to create account lines 28900
- CO emergency response supplies and 38350 grant distribution and simultaneously approve additional
- appropriations of $150 in the supplies category and $5,350 in the services category for a total appropriation
- of $5,500. Second. All right. We got a motion and a second and I see Mr. Baker is online.
- So Mr. Baker, you should be able to unmute and you can go ahead with your presentation. Yes, good evening
- council. This is a Duke grant that we got to help Manila Fire Protection District fulfill their water
- safety and boating safety campaign that they're starting. And this will help them purchase life jacket
- loaner stations throughout the county near bodies of water.
- Their locations are still unknown at this time, but they are working with some more safety specialists
- to get that going. So this will help keep people safe on the water, especially on Lake Monroe and Fifth
- Lake and stuff. And leftover funds will help us purchase more flood radios to keep people alerted of
- storms and stuff. Thank you very much for that.
- Does anybody have any questions or comments for Mr. Baker on this item? Yes, Councilmember Decker. I
- was very happy to see this come in and the emergency management alongside the fire protection district
- were proactively talking about something that I think that haunts a lot of us and many families, particularly
- as we enter a season where water traffic
- increases and extends and so I appreciate very much that the folks who respond to emergencies are thinking
- proactively about things that might assist us to have one less, two less, multiple less and I'm grateful
- for that immensely. Any other questions or comments on this item?
- All right, seeing none, we will move on to public comment. If there's public comment on this item, raise
- your hand via Teams, or you can come forward to the lectern here in the room. And still seeing none,
- maybe please have a roll call vote. Councilor Feidl? Yes. Councilor Hawk? Yes. Councilor Wilts? Yes.
- Councilor Henry? Yes. Councilor Decker?
- Councilor Crossley? Yes. Councilor Iverson? Yes. Motion passes unanimous. All right. Next up is item
- B from the Board of Commissioners. All right. This is a long one, so be patient. Council is a reminder
- to everyone due to a lack of unanimous vote to the May 12th meeting, this is the second reading and
- approval of ordinance 2026-17, fixing terms and conditions for the purchase of land as follows.
- Whereas pursuant to the authority granted to the Monroe County Council, hereby after a council, by the
- General Assembly of the State of Indiana under Indiana Code 36-2-2-20, the council quote, a conveyance
- or purchase by a county of land having a value of $1,000 or more must be authorized by an ordinance
- of the county fiscal body, fixing the terms and conditions of the transaction, end quote.
- Whereas the Monroe County Board of Commissioners intend to purchase land from the Logan land development
- LLC Hereafter seller under certain terms which are described in the attached and incorporated quote
- contract for purchase of real estate in quote marked as quote exhibit one end quote and whereas exhibit
- one indicates a purchase price of 11 million three hundred seventy three thousand dollars the
- Eleven million three hundred seventy five thousand dollars. Thank you. The agreement requires council
- approval pursuant to Indiana code thirty six one dash one dash ten dash five point five dash five and
- Indiana code thirty six dash two dash two dash twenty now therefore be it ordained and established by
- the Monroe County Council as follows section one the Monroe County Council
- has been provided two appraisals for the property owned by the seller as shown in exhibit one.
- Section two, the council wishes for Monroe County to acquire the property owned by seller and described
- in exhibit one. As the fiscal body for Monroe County, this ordinance serves as the expression of the
- council's interest in purchasing the land as required by Indiana code 36-1-10.5-5. Section three,
- Per Indiana Code 36-2-2-20, the Council approves of all the terms and conditions described in the Contract
- for Purchase of Real Estate, which is attached here, too, as Exhibit 1. The Council recognizes that
- the purchase price does not exceed the average of the two appraisals received and accepted by the Council.
- Section 4.
- To the extent council approval is required, the council approves the execution and deliverance of any
- and all documents necessary to approve the contract for purchase of real estate and authorizes officers
- of the county to take any and all action necessary to ratify, approve, or finalize the transaction.
- Second. All right, we got a motion and a second, and I don't know who's presenting, but somebody, go ahead.
- Here at the table, so I'm assuming it's you. Hello, Sherrod. Good evening, council members and Madam
- President. This past weekend, well, it was a long weekend, I spent a lot of time thinking about what
- I was gonna present to the council. Gave a tremendous amount of thought. At one point, I gave some thought
- in the sense of repeating the first president's
- a PowerPoint presentation that I presented. And as I thought about that, I'm thinking, well, you really
- showed that. And I also thought about, what about the photographs that presented before in the past?
- So would I present those as a refresher? And well, you really did that as well. I even thought about
- repeating some of the stories and what we have been through, the staff,
- the residents in that facility and why is it that we need a brand new facility at this point? I'm thinking,
- well, we have done that as well. So decided just to really talk about the facts and what you really
- know and hopefully go from there. As you know, when I took over five years and a half ago, we discussed this.
- very transparent and really thought about how to bring the council members up to speed as far
- as constitutional job because we're at the borderline right now, not being constitutional. So my thought
- process was knowing that there was a consent decree that's been in effect for 17 years, as you know,
- Okay, how do we move forward? Because 17 years is quite a long time and believe it for the staff members
- and for the people in that facility, that's a long time to make improvements. But the issue still remains.
- We talk about being very caring and humane, but the lack of medical care that we could provide is not
- there right now because of this lack of space.
- The population for us is growing slowly. I can't tell you why. I just can't tell you. But I could tell
- you when it does and we have people there that need medical care, we have to step up right. But it's
- so difficult at this point because of the space. We're lacking space tremendously. And God forbid we
- have to quarantine people. We won't be able to do it. We just don't have the space. Programs. I know
- this county is very caring.
- as the council members are, because you do talk about how do we provide assistance to people before
- they end up in our facility, which is a very good concept, and I'm 100% behind that. We have to do both
- at the same time, because the majority of the people that we have are people that need help. We're trying
- to be a proactive team in the sense of trying to meet them where they're at, meaning not everyone is
- the same, but the staff for us, the size remains the same.
- It's a very, very difficult task for us, I could tell you. And when I come and sit in front of you and
- I say to you, because I want, I'm gonna keep my word and be transparent, but to be fair to you, if I'm
- gonna come to you and ask you for certain things, I need you to understand why. And I could tell you
- right now, the numbers are concerning to me right now as they're creeping up, it really is.
- I won't get too deep into that right now, but I assure you it is. And we cannot keep up trying to help
- someone with programs if the numbers keep up and our staff numbers remain the same. It's just really
- impossible to do that. And the thing is, we all agreed upon that we want to provide them with the best
- programs in the system and assist them as much as we can. We all agree to that. We have that in common.
- But I can sit here and tell you that
- We're falling short. It's just it is what it is. I can't. The staff that we have are doing a phenomenal
- job. We hold them to a very high standard. But when you're tired. You make mistakes. Our use of force
- has dropped 80 percent. It has. But when you have people that are in a facility that's overcrowded,
- tempers flare up.
- And which means is the potential for our staff members to get hurt, the percentage rises. So I'm gonna
- ask you for help in the sense of we have to do something, we have to do something fast because when
- I said to you also, I don't know what tomorrow is gonna bring and it's coming fast. It truly is, it's
- coming fast because we cannot keep up at the momentum that people are coming in, which we have no control
- over, but it's there.
- We also have the lack of the ADA providing people that need their service. We just don't have it. Um,
- we are caring community. Yes, we are. We want to provide those services, but at the present time, we
- just can't do it the level that we should be able to do it. I really touched on the safety of the staff
- and, and, and the inmates.
- That's something that I think about dramatically. So when I thought about what I'm gonna say to the
- council, that forefront, that was one of the things I wanted to make repeat myself to you that it's
- a situation that if I could bring them in and talk to themselves, you could hear from their voices the
- stress that they're under.
- but I can't because some of them have to go home to sleep to work the midnight shift or the second shift
- or the third shift. So it's very difficult. So they're doing the very best that they can under
- the circumstances. So for the new facility, one of the things that I thought about and I agree with
- the council when you mentioned multiple time is what we need to do the first step is just build
- the office, the sheriff's office, and to jail. I agree with you 100%. I really do. The time is now.
- I always stood the ground that whatever we take position, we take whatever location we select, the fastest
- that we could move at the present time. I always said that.
- not to move forward at the present time is literally putting a tremendous amount of more stress on the
- staff that are already stressed to a point that concerns me. It really does. So we all agree that we
- want to treat people humanly. We agreed upon that. We also agreed that we want to have public safety
- to the utmost. This is a public safety issue because we tried to do
- is when they come in and provide specifically residents. Now I'm talking about is provided with all
- the help that we can. So when they leave the facility, they don't go back to the same pattern or habits
- that cause them to be in there. We're trying to be proactive, but here again, it keeps coming back to
- the facility and the staff number. And when I say to you that when we release people and the numbers
- are higher,
- Releasing people that we know for fact need assistance And it takes time to provide that assistance
- and we don't have the staff and or the size of facility to do that It concerns me because At what point
- do we realize that? Once we hit that number that's the point of no return and we're creeping up to it
- very quickly One of the things that I thought about this weekend as well
- I mean, I'm not an attorney for what I'm about to say. I might ask Commissioner Maduro to step to come
- up here for a minute in case I missed something that I didn't say properly, because I want to make sure
- that I provide adequate information to you. I thought about this. Let's say the lawsuit goes through.
- I know for a fact, testify.
- I don't know if the fact is going to be the chief deputy. I don't know if the fact that the jail commander
- is going to be, is going to be asked to testify as well. And once we do, if we go that route, in the
- 17 years of being given extension, a federal judge is going to look at the whole picture and lose.
- And once we do, there's the part that I'm a little puzzled because my understanding, the main concern
- for the council was being cost effective, and I agree with that 100%. But if it goes to a federal lawsuit,
- it's gonna cost the county taxpayers a whole lot more money. We're gonna lose control of how we proceed forward.
- Because at this point, it's going to be a court order telling us what to do and when to do it. And I
- believe there will be deadlines. And there will be consequences if we don't meet those deadlines. So
- I thought about that this weekend as well. I really wanted to make sure that the council understood
- that. Because it could be you at one point also being subpoenaed to testify as well.
- It won't have to be just us, it could be you as well, because you're the ones making the decision. So,
- thinking that through, I don't know what else we'll be facing if that happens. And I don't know, maybe
- Commissioner Madara, can you elaborate a little bit, if you have anything else you wanna add to this,
- what I just said? Wanna add to it a little bit? The reason I'm asking,
- As an attorney, I think I might be missing some of the steps, but I want them to fully understand what,
- if we do get subpoenaed to testify, what will happen after that. Are you asking our county attorney
- to make comments or the county commissioner? He's a county commissioner.
- So I think many of you members of the public and colleagues have asked what comes next. The ACLU through
- Ken Falk has stated its intentions clearly. They will file immediately, and they will seek summary judgment.
- Summary judgment isn't a request for further negotiation or dialogue. It's a request for a court to
- decide the ultimate legal question without a trial because the facts aren't meaningfully in dispute.
- The question here will be, did Monroe County have an unconstitutional jail? I don't know that any elected
- official in this room would say that it's not unconstitutional. In recent days, our population was as
- high as 272. This jail has a functional capacity of 235. This is a structural problem. All the new services
- in the world won't create new ADA cells, rec space, or alleviate overcrowding.
- So if summary judgment is granted, the only remaining question is what remedy a federal court will impose
- on Monroe County. We stop acting as one county and start acting as separate legal adversaries.
- The commissioners, the sheriff, and the council will each retain separate attorneys, file separate briefs,
- and present separate arguments. And from what I've seen of the record from the past 17 years, the ACLU
- will prevail. Some have asked whether we can negotiate our way out at this point. We can't.
- Mediation works when both sides are vulnerable, exposed to legal risk, and sit at the table as equals.
- That's not Monroe County's situation. We've known for years that this jail is unconstitutional. We've
- said so publicly, we've studied it repeatedly. We've agreed on the record that the current facility
- cannot be repaired as a constitutional jail. We've even entered into a settlement agreement to resolve
- prior litigation. That history doesn't give us leverage, it undermines it.
- Once summary judgment is entered against us, we'll walk into a federal courtroom again as divided defendants.
- The judge will ask the ACLU what relief it seeks and what recommendations it has. Then each county party,
- the commissioners, the sheriff, and the council will be asked to respond, and then the judge will rule.
- That ruling, as we've said before, could be sweeping. A court could order population reductions and
- mandatory out of county transfers of at least $75 per person per day.
- It could mandate specific staffing levels, medical care, mental health services, sanitation standards,
- and safety measures. It could require us to make structural changes to the jail, which the transition
- team has estimated would cost 3.5 to 13 million in 2026 dollars. It could impose outside monitoring
- and rigorous reporting requirements lasting for years. It could set hard deadlines for site selection,
- financing, design, and construction with tight benchmarks of 60 or 90 days.
- A federal court might not be able to choose a site for us, but it can narrow our choices so severely
- that local control becomes largely theoretical. At the best, it's compromise. That's court-supervised
- compliance, and it's the opposite of negotiation or mediation. Litigation doesn't give us options we
- don't already have. It takes options away. So this vote will define how Monroe County is remembered
- on this issue, not the years of studies and stalled decisions, but what we choose to do right now.
- And so while I'm here, I'd like to take a point of prerogative. That's OK with you, Sheriff? Yes, please.
- I'm asking each council member to stand together and to end this before federal court ends it for us,
- not because we're forced to, but because we're capable of governing, because the people living and working
- in that jail are our neighbors and they deserve better. And because the residents of this county deserve
- a government that can make hard decisions together rather than be driven apart by litigation.
- The path forward requires all of us. It requires setting aside institutional defensiveness and past
- disagreements. It necessitates moving with urgency that matches the seriousness of what we're facing.
- The courthouse door isn't yet closed, and we can still avoid walking through it altogether.
- And as a lawyer, I'm really scared of being dragged through it separately without my colleagues, without
- you guys. I'm ready to do whatever it takes to make the site work alongside you, my commissioner colleagues,
- the sheriff, the mayor, and the city council.
- So let's resolve this together on our terms before a federal judge resolves it on theirs. I also want
- to add that however tonight ends, it's a given that our relationship, our collaboration, and our work
- together continues. Monroe County faces real challenges that will outlast this litigation. In combating
- homelessness, building infrastructure, improving public health, making housing attainable, accelerating
- economic development,
- delivering basic services to our residents. None of these challenges can be solved by anyone office
- or any one branch of county government acting alone. They require the same commissioners, the same sheriff
- and the same council working in good faith towards shared goals. So the habits we build now of communicating
- early, treating each other as partners rather than adversaries, bringing problems to the table before
- they become crises are the habits that will determine what kind of county government we are for the
- next generation.
- A protracted legal battle leaves scars, breeds distrust, drains resources, and makes every subsequent
- conversation harder. A collaborative resolution demonstrates to our constituents and to ourselves that
- we're capable of so much more than managed dysfunction. But whatever happens, I stand as your colleague,
- and we'll still get down to the hard business of governing together. I fear that it limits resources,
- and that will just make it much, much harder. So when I was getting ready for tonight, I realized that
- the situation reminded me of one of my favorite songs, Kenny Rogers, The Gambler. The chorus of the
- song is short.
- You've got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, and know when
- to run. You never count your money when you're sitting at the table. There'll be time enough for counting
- when the dealing's done. We have the hand we're dealt. It isn't great, but we do still hold the get
- out of court card free with the jail. So what this is about to me is human dignity and constitutional
- responsibility, legal obligations. One of the things that I also consider before
- talking to the council. I thought about this weekend, the tremendous responsibility of the correctional
- officers and the deputies. We haven't had a chance to talk to you about the role of deputies, but we
- will in the future, and explain to you what I mean by that. We, at the department within itself, we're
- in a position that it's crucial that we move forward with this. It really is. Clear than that,
- I cannot be. We are at a certain point,
- that is going to hurt this office worse than where we are right now. So we cannot repair that jail,
- we just can't at the point where right now. North Park is ready, so I strongly recommend that we move
- forward at this point. The commission mentioned something which is so true. I know for a fact that for
- me to do my job and be successful in what we do, my staff, excuse me, and to provide the best programs
- to the residents in that facility, I need you. There's just no way around it. I need you to help me
- do what I need to do with my job in the sense of providing certain services. And I also need the commissions
- as well. So we all need each other. And I acknowledge that. And also, I also wanted to
- consider and be respectful to the council. I wanted to make sure that I did not miss anything legally,
- and I knew she could explain it better than I can, in a sense, meaning Commissioner Medora.
- So with that, I'm going to conclude my statement here, because I really wanna be respectful of your
- time, I really do, but also I want to make a fully educational decision for this evening, because we're
- at a point that
- I don't want it to be said, we never came to you and explained every single thing that we're dealing
- with right now because it's not fair to you. But at the same time, I really want you to consider the
- people that are working in there. This weekend, we had a long weekend, but guess what? A good portion
- of my staff did not enjoy this weekend. They were in that facility dealing with a large number of people
- that I don't want to get graphic right now that they had to deal with.
- to deal with that large number of people in there. And I assure you, no one, council member wanted to
- go through that. No one, council member's family, you would want them in there this past weekend because
- it was really bad. It just was. I'm not going to shoot a code. So I need you to help us to do our job
- professionally and we will continue to do what we need to do, but we need help.
- If you have questions for me, I'd be more than happy to answer. If not, to be respectful of your time,
- I conclude my speech. Thank you. I'm going to look to my council members here to see if anybody has
- any questions or comments from what we just heard. Council Member Hawke? Well, I look forward to hearing
- what our county attorney has to say about
- legal advice because that's who we pay to give us legal advice. But I don't want to take up your time
- for it now. I think perhaps there were some things advice given to us was really sounded like, you know,
- come and agree with us because you can get a smack down if you don't. But at any rate, I appreciate
- everything that you said. And I just think that you need to know
- from what I've heard over and over again from the members of this council, we want to move forward with
- the jail. What we're talking about right now is where's that jail going to be? You shouldn't ever take
- it into your thoughts that we don't plan to move forward and help to make sure that jail is a better place.
- best it can be while we're still using it, but make that a short time and be able to move forward with
- a new one. And every time we spend millions of dollars on a location where we could get one millions
- of dollars for less money, that just means there's gonna be more square foot for you folks and more
- operational dollars for you folks. And I hope that you'll all learn how the budgets work
- because it's all coming out of the same pot of money. So I'd be happy to sit down and go over this,
- every bit of this income tax money so that you can understand if we can save millions, we can put it
- where you want it to be, which includes your salaries. Well, I'm not gonna tell the council how to do
- their job. I'm not. Please consider that.
- We know what we're doing. I know specifically what I'm referring to. The statement that you just made,
- it's not gonna change the fact of what we faced, continue to face, at the rate that we're going. Any
- other questions or comments? Got the public that's here, so I think
- it might be safe to say that we might be in agreement that we want to hear from our public before so
- how about this we will move to public comment and then maybe we'll come back for um further discussion
- is it or i i had a few things i wanted to say i might i'm sorry so yeah thank you and then we'll go
- to public comment yep
- I just want to quickly remind everyone that we have two deadlines facing us. The first one is Friday's
- ACLU deadline. The other is the bond council's deadline to initiate a bond in July. Anything other than
- North Park at this moment means we miss both deadlines. We've heard from Commissioner Madera what that
- could mean in terms of legal cases. We've had time. We've had a lot of years, especially
- lately uh but four council members have not yet pointed to a different location it's not clear to me
- why the council would abdicate its responsibility and rights at this moment to a federal judge who can
- make a range of decisions we don't know
- Two thirds of the elected bodies that are required to choose the property have done so. It's the sheriff's
- office and the board of commissioners. If the purchase of North Park is not supported today, we're going
- to be squandering both time and money. And that money that's going to be squandered is a sunk cost.
- It's not a capital investment into anything, right? It would be,
- treading water and that's something the community will pay the price for. Meanwhile, correctional officers
- continue to work in an unsafe system which may be made worse if transfers are required and individuals
- will remain in a facility that we have all agreed does not meet the community's standard of care. So
- I ask you to please consider this
- with all the weight and gravity that it has. Thank you. Thank you. So next up, we will move on to public
- comment. So if you have public comment, you can come forward to the lectern here. And again, you will
- have up to three minutes. After three minutes are up, your time is over. And then we will alternate
- back and forth between here and on Teams. So it looks like I already see
- A couple of hands via Teams. I already see we have someone here in the room. So I'll do two here and
- two via Teams and I'll start here in the room. Thank you. Thank you. Greetings, county colleagues. Isabel
- Piedmont-Smith, City Council District 1. First, I want to start by saying that
- Council President Isaka sorry does not speak for me on this issue You received a letter that was signed
- by him recently. Just wanted to clarify that Commissioner Madeira said that she would like to have a
- collaborative approach to resolving this issue and I hold that The county commissioners perhaps not
- her in particular since she is new but as about
- The county commissioners have not engaged in a collaborative approach for many years. Sorry, I have
- some disparate thoughts, so it's not going to flow so great. But I agree with the letter that was sent
- to you by former Mayor John Hamilton when he was in office. He and I did not always agree.
- I really feel strongly that our county government has not done enough to prevent people going into the
- jail through funding mental health care, addiction treatment, reentry support. I know some of the funds
- have been used for that, but not nearly as much as have been used already for planning for the jail.
- The consultant the commissioners used is also someone who builds large jails, so it's not an impartial
- consultant.
- Overall, the jail proposal at the North Park site is a poor use of taxpayer money. We're not only burdening
- future generations with debt, but we're also burdening them with a status quo criminal justice system
- that is focused on punishment and where it should be focused on prevention. This is an opportunity to
- change this system, which I've been saying for years, but due to the non-collaborative nature of the
- commissioners on this, it was ignored. And many in the community have been saying the same thing.
- Any facility, as the current proposal is, that has a significantly higher number of beds will be, could
- very well be used by ICE, could be used by the federal government, which is repressing American citizens
- and legal immigrants to this country across the board. Public safety is not arresting people and putting
- them in jail. Public safety rests on the principle that true
- Safety comes only from racial and economic justice where residents have the resources and stability
- they need to survive and hopefully to thrive. You are in a very difficult situation. I do not envy you.
- I'm kind of glad I'm not up there. But this situation was caused by our county commissioners and they
- should have acted and one of them has been on the board of commissioners since 2012.
- had plenty of time to act sooner, in a more collaborative fashion, to come up with a solution that furthers
- justice and is supported by the members of this community. You're at a dead end now where none of that
- is true, and I don't envy you, but I still think you should vote no. Thank you.
- Next up in the room and then we'll go to teams next. Hello, I am Heather Bland. Good evening council
- members. My name is Heather Bland and I'm a Monroe County resident and the director at New Leaf New
- Life. I'm here today to ask you to vote no on the proposed North Park jail location. I want to share
- a story about a man I'll never forget. He came to New Leaf New Life.
- He'd just been released from incarceration. He didn't have an ID. He didn't have a home. He didn't have
- a job. And honestly, he didn't have much hope left either. But he showed up. And because he could physically
- get to us, because we were accessible, he kept showing up. At first, it was small steps, sitting down
- with someone that would actually listen, getting a bus pass so he could make it to appointments, and
- starting the process to get his birth certificate. And then we were able to get him into substance use
- treatment.
- From there, he moved into sober living somewhere safe, structured, and supportive. It wasn't instant.
- It wasn't easy. There were setbacks, and there were days he almost gave up. But over time, something
- shifted. He found a job, and then he kept that job. He started rebuilding relationships with his family.
- He began to believe that his life could look different. And eventually, he wasn't just surviving. He
- was stable.
- He was giving back. He became someone other people could look at and say, if he can do it, maybe I can
- too. That didn't happen because the system worked perfectly. It happened because he had access, real,
- consistent, direct access to support, to transportation, and to people who could walk alongside him
- when it mattered the most. And that's what's at risk at North Park. We all know the current jail conditions
- are not where they need to be, and that's real.
- But moving people farther away from resources, farther away from transportation, and farther away from
- community support does not fix that. It creates a new problem. Because distance isn't just distance.
- Distance is missed appointments. Distance is lost opportunities, and distance is disconnection. And
- disconnection is where people fall through the cracks. This is one man's story, but it represents thousands
- of community members that we've served at New Leaf New Life over the past 20 plus years. We've seen
- what works, and what works is access.
- What works is connection. What works is meeting people where they are, not placing them further out
- of reach. This proposal has been denied before and for good reason. And a threat of lawsuit is not worth
- the long-term impact this decision will have on real people trying to rebuild their lives. We can do
- better than this. We can invest in solutions that reduce recidivism, strengthen our community, and actually
- support the people in changing their lives. I urge you to vote no on this North Park location. Thank
- you for your time.
- Thank you. Next up, we will go to the two and teams that are saw first. First up is Matt Jacobs, you
- should be able to unmute, state your name for the record and you'll have up to three minutes. TSD.
- Yeah, we can hear you. Go ahead and state your name for the record. You have up to three minutes. My
- name is Matt Jacobs and. In Indiana, it's called statement of economic interest or conflict of interest
- disclosure. For county council members specifically, if the vote financially benefits their employer,
- a family member or a business they're affiliated with, they're required to verbally disclosed. Conflict
- on record before the vote abstain from voting.
- filed Indiana Ethics Commission as it involves a state matter. The relevant Indiana code is IC 35-44.1-1-4
- for official misconduct and it's Indiana code 4-2-6 for ethics violations by public servants. The IU
- affiliation, if any council member has employment contractual or financial ties to IU and IU benefits
- from this vote, which it does because of the land that's adjacent
- will then be provided with utility access that it has not had. That's a disclosable conflict. Same for
- the Crider bonds. Crider's selling the land, Crider owns the bonds, and Crider will presumably be doing
- the infrastructure. As every council member with a financial or employment relationship to any entity
- that benefits from this vote filed a conflict of interest disclosure, I'd like that confirmed on record
- before any vote is taken.
- Also, additionally, has every elected official in that room filed their CAN-12 document? Because I can
- only find eight of those on record in the county clerk's office. Also, has a structural engineer ever
- looked at the jail? We have two PhDs in criminal justice,
- and an architect that did jail report. So the jail's falling down is based on people that are great
- at creating rehabilitation programs for criminals, but they're not at all engineers. And we already
- have land that's available, that's already on the bus route behind the old RCA or Catalan or whatever
- it's called this week.
- You know, only Ms. Hawk is the only one in that room that doesn't have an affiliation with IU. And IU
- stands for their land to substantially be worth more money after we spend millions and millions of dollars
- creating the generational debt. That's really all I have to say about it. I've already submitted the
- letters and all this to the ACLU. And I think the ACLU and a federal judge
- would do a better job than y'all have done in the last 18 years. I know some of you are pretty new,
- and so I'm not putting this all on you, but my family's been here for over 100 years. I can take you
- to buildings where my father and my grandfather's hand touched the limestone. I've worked on many of
- these buildings myself. My niece and my nephew, they've wired these buildings, they've put pipes in
- these buildings. You know, how many people are from here that are voting on this? Thank you,
- that's your time.
- All right, next up we have Sarah Mosher. So if you want to be able or you should be able to unmute,
- state your name for the record and you have up to three minutes. Thank you. I just wanted to encourage
- you to vote no on the North Park location for the same reasons that
- Matt Jacobs and the director of New Leaf New Life and Isabel Piedmont-Smith mentioned. Honestly, at
- this point, I think if there was a lawsuit and a federal judge or someone else perhaps required that
- the jail be located more centrally, that would benefit the folks that are incarcerated. And we should
- be, if we really are,
- wanting to be collaborative, we should be collaborating with New Leaf New Life and others to not arrest
- so many people in the first place, rather than build a bigger jail. And perhaps Professor Madera, I
- know she's a law professor at IU, maybe she knows more about how likely it is that the federal government
- would pick a location or
- make us pick a location that's closer to things than the North Park site. But it's already been discussed
- why that site isn't good. So that's all I had to say. Please vote no on the North Park site. And can
- you state your name for the record one more time, please? I don't think you said it. Oh, I'm sorry.
- I'm Sarah Mosier. I'm a resident of Bloomington and Monroe County. OK, thank you so much. I appreciate that.
- Next up, we'll go to two more here, and then at you, Hoveram. Hello. Hi there. My name is Zach Ammerman.
- I emailed all of you earlier today, but I'm here to talk at your face now. I just jotted down some thoughts.
- I don't have a speech prepared or anything, but I'm just going to read through a couple thoughts. One
- of the things I emailed to you is one thing I want to read.
- And that is, according to data that I got from the Vera Institute of Justice, there is no county in
- the state of Indiana that has managed to increase its population adjusted jail size, so the number of
- beds adjusted for the number of people in the county, without also increasing its per capita incarceration
- rate. Not a single one. Adding more beds absolutely means those beds will be filled at a greater rate
- than they are today.
- The data across the state proves that. I also looked at data from counties all over the country to the
- thousands of counties across the country. It's the same trend. It's a straight up line. You add more
- beds per capita, the incarceration rate goes up, period. So doing that in the context of ICE and rising
- authoritarianism is frankly insane. I think it's nuts. So I'm asking you to please hold the line and
- vote no again. The fact that we're here again,
- asking you to vote no is not your fault, it's the county commissioner's fault, is ridiculous because
- I think there is no way in hell that this would pass a referendum in the county. The people, the population
- of this county would not vote in favor of what you're being asked to vote in favor of tonight. I think
- you know that, or you should know that. You are here to represent them. So I ask that you would please
- do what the people of this county obviously and very clearly and loudly have said repeatedly.
- And that's not to vote in favor of a giant jumbo jail that allows the county to continue incarceration
- first policies. I've got a minute left. So what this all really comes down to is you've already voted
- against this more than once. Nothing materially has changed since you voted against this, except that
- the county commissioners have failed to understand what the words NO means.
- You've told them no repeatedly. Nothing has changed since you told them no, really. I'm sorry, the situation
- that we're in is crappy, but it's entirely their fault. If they had understood what no meant and had
- gotten to work and found another site, of which there are several, we wouldn't be here today. Yeah,
- so any time that has been squandered was done entirely on the part of the commissioners, not you. And
- so I ask you to vote no again.
- hopefully for the last time on this land deal. And I also wanna thank a couple of members who I know
- have, Marty Hawk, Council Member Crossley and Council Member Henry who a bit stood publicly and said
- no repeatedly. Thank you for your work on this and I hope the other three members of the council on
- this side will follow their lead. So thank you. Good evening.
- My name is Janet Johnson and I'm a resident of Monroe County. I don't have a lot to add. I just wanted
- to agree with everyone that's been here thus far. And I did want to add one additional thing that I've
- not heard discussed, which is transportation for the people, not the inmates, but the families of the
- inmates that might visit. I don't know how many people
- visit the jail. But I do feel like being in jail, you're isolated somewhat. And I've heard it bandied
- about that an Uber would be about $20, which doesn't sound that substantial to many of us in the room.
- But for the families of people that are in jail, that could be a real impact. And so I want you to consider
- the impact that would have on the families as well as the inmates, because I think that that could increase
- isolation, which is not going to lead to good incomes.
- I heard the sheriff talk a lot about why we need to move forward with this, and we do need to have a
- new jail. I'll go with that, or at least to do something about the jail. But a lot of what he discussed
- this evening sounded to me like staffing issues. I think if we build this giant new jail with the price
- tag that it's got, I don't see how there's gonna be any room left to increase staff. So that seems a
- little confusing to me. And then I just wanted to close by saying that
- action for the sake of action to avoid this potential lawsuit seems like a really irresponsible plan
- of action to me. Anytime you do something just for the sake of taking action, it tends to not have a
- great result. That's it for me. Thank you. Next, I'm going to pop back onto teams. So screen name, Mindy.
- You should be able to unmute and state your name for the record you have up to three minutes. Hi Mindy
- flat Monroe County resident.
- and I stand with them and honestly I say vote no and let a judge take this out because they're a hundred
- percent not going to put it far away from town and all the resources for the people who are incarcerated
- and the people who are affected by this. So vote no please. Thank you. Next up on team's land. Screen
- name Jay Burrell.
- It's Jennifer Burrell. I'm speaking only as a Monroe County resident today and I just want to add into
- the conversation another voice that is asking you to vote no. I have engaged with you all multiple times
- via email when I can outside of work. The only individuals who have interacted with me have been
- those on council. So thank you, Jennifer Crossley, David Henry and Marty Hawk. I'm very disappointed
- that no commissioners, despite their continued action for pushing the site have not interacted with
- community members. That has continued in my individual experience as well with actually taking the time
- to reach out. So as I was asked by some council members to speak, I'm here doing that.
- It's really disappointing because I have also heard many people, including the commissioners tonight,
- talk about determining the government for the next generation and state a lot of things about how this
- will impact another generation. I am one of those. You all were the leaders that I didn't know about
- as I was a child in this town. When this issue was ongoing and could have already been worked on, a
- jail could have been built at another location and could have been done before I was here of voting
- age with my own family.
- Now I'm speaking because my daughter is running around while I am taking the time out of my night to
- make sure that I can tell her later that I told them no please don't build an enlarged expanded jail
- over on the northwest side of town. There are lots of reasons as everybody else has mentioned and continues
- to mention for it to not be at the North Park location. I stand by that as well.
- I also just took various notes again while everybody was speaking today. Um, and the only additional
- thing I have to add is just that, uh, saying that squandering time and money by saying no tonight is
- a bit insulting. Um, because saying the community will pay the price, I feel so the community will pay
- the price of the vote is yes tonight. Um, so again, I'm just asking for you all to vote no, um, hope,
- hope everybody can come to that agreement tonight. Thank you. Thank you. Next up, we'll go back to the
- room here. Hi, my name is Barry. It is my understanding from the mayor's state of the city a few months
- back that the state of Indiana recently more or less criminalized not having a house to sleep in. We're
- in a housing crisis, but our city, county, and state have failed to build or even maintain the super
- affordable housing and public housing that could actually help people get on their feet.
- Instead, the housing solution put forward appears to be, put them all in jail. That's probably unintentional,
- and it won't happen overnight. In fact, it'll probably happen so slowly a lot of us don't even notice.
- But if it is a crime to become too poor, and the jail has vacancies, who do you think is going to end
- up in that jail? Supposedly, this is about safety. I live right near Seminary Square. I walked next
- to unhoused people every day. Some of them pet my dog.
- They do not make me feel unsafe. But at night, I watch them get tased, followed, harassed, and arrested.
- It's an everyday occurrence. One night recently, I got home late and opened my car door to hear screaming
- and shouting. It was the police. Something like 10 cop cars and a bunch of officers were surrounding
- a man who was kneeling on the ground in the rally's parking lot, and they were tasing him. I felt unsafe
- because a dozen police officers were across the street shouting at a man while they attacked him.
- but it does not need to be crushed with a bigger fist. Every dollar spent on this jail is a dollar that
- will not be spent on housing and social services for the people who need them, and it's going to be
- a lot of dollars. As I understand it, this jail and the necessary amenities are so extraordinarily expensive
- that the local government are not even allowed to take out enough money to construct everything it wants,
- and will instead be spending further tens of millions of dollars for like a decade. When people need
- help, they need housing first,
- That's where the money needs to go, not incarceration. Thank you. Please. Good evening. My name is Sarah
- Rider Band. I am the county health officer and I am here because I represent
- all of Monroe County, their health and their wellbeing, including those who are incarcerated. This is
- not a question of how, this is a matter of when. This jail has been under consideration for a number
- of years, ever since we learned it was inadequate. COVID proved we cannot easily isolate
- individuals within our current jail. The health issues that I envision when you cannot isolate individuals
- with communicable diseases is serious. It is not a question of whether incarceration is good or bad.
- I don't think there are too many of us in this room who would say, yeah, let's incarcerate more people.
- This is not homelessness. I don't think any of us support homelessness. But there are people in this
- community who need to be incarcerated. If people want to fight, then they should be looking at the laws.
- They should be speaking to our legislators who create these laws. They should be looking to our jurors
- and to our jurists, those
- actually put people in jail. It is not a matter of whether or not we need this jail. It is a matter
- of having a facility that will allow us to actually do some of the rehabilitation that I've heard about
- this evening. Access isn't really the big issue. When we were going to build the hospital out at North
- Park, we already talked about creating a new bus line to North Park.
- We have looked at all of sites within the city bounds. It is not feasible. Either the city has not allowed
- it, the neighbors have not allowed it, whatever it is, it is not feasible to do that within the city.
- We cannot also afford city prices. And I'd be happy to tear down many of the housing units
- that have students in them, but I don't think that's gonna happen either. So let's be realistic. We
- have a piece of land, we have people who need to be in our jail, and we need that jail to be safe and
- manageable. And it needs to be within the same area as our new courthouses. We cannot afford to let
- our current people
- be sent out to other counties. The transportation back is, again, a safety issue for all of those. And
- that is your time. Thank you. Next up, we will go back to virtual land. Looks like screen name Jack,
- you are first.
- Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. I have a question and a comment. How is whatever you do with
- the new jail, how is the bond paid for income taxes or property taxes? Well, this is not a time for
- a back and forth, so we can maybe address that. But again, I'll give you a little bit more of your time
- back. But again, state your name for the record and go ahead with your comment.
- Okay, Jack speaker. I think we all have noticed that there's been a significant shift to the right in
- the federal judiciary. I think it might be worth letting the judge decide it because the council and
- the commission have been working on it for a long time and haven't found an answer that anybody really
- likes. That's all I have. Okay, thank you. Next.
- Curtis Cummings. Hello there. My name is Curtis Cummings and I work in human social services here in
- Monroe County.
- I'm in and out of our courts and jail system, working with individuals and families involved in some
- of the most difficult moments of their lives. So I want to begin by acknowledging something clearly
- like I did last meeting, and that the concerns surrounding the jail are very real. Safe and constitutional
- conditions do matter. Staff safety matters. Human dignity matters. Monroe County does have a responsibility
- to act. And I also recognize that current leadership inherited a pretty difficult situation.
- You know, we can't change what previous leadership was or was not able to accomplish over the last several
- years, but the County can't continue kicking this problem down the road. I believe leadership is not
- only about solving today's crisis, but it's about solving today's crisis without limiting tomorrow's
- opportunities.
- And that's where my concern about North Park comes in. From the perspective of many of the individuals
- and families I work with every day, many are facing poverty, transportation issues, not being able to
- afford bus passes, mental health challenges and addiction. I do not believe North Park is the best long-term
- location. At the same time, North Park may also be one of the county's most strategically valuable future
- development corridors for jobs and retail restaurants and long-term tax-based growth.
- A jail is a very permanent land use commitment. The lawsuit may explain why action is necessary, but
- it does not automatically answer whether this is the best long-term location. And I also struggle with
- the idea that site readiness is fixed and not movable. In the private sector, developers create readiness
- and urgency all the time while still balancing budgets, building infrastructure, and meeting aggressive
- timelines when the long-term value justifies the investment.
- I can see a Chicago apartment complex get built in Bloomington in less than a year, and it's taken us
- this long to build a jail. So I think it's fair for the public to ask whether North Park became the
- ready option, partly because momentum had already formed around it earlier in the process. And again,
- I wanna be clear, I'm not suggesting the county stop moving forward, but I think current leadership
- now has to put its developmental hat on
- and aggressively move this progress forward with urgency, accountability, and transparency. But responsible
- leadership is not choosing between urgency and strategic planning. Responsible leadership is creating
- a process that can accomplish both. At the end of the day, my final words are that urgency should inform
- decision-making. It should not replace strategic planning. Thank you very much. Thank you.
- We'll go back to the room here, so you're in. Hi, I'm Misty James. I work for New Leaf New Life. I'm
- the assistant director there. I know I have a real polished story to tell you guys, but I have a couple
- real human stories to tell you. I had a client who was released from a rural county jail in the middle
- of the evening. He walked from that county to here. It took him nine hours.
- to get here. The weather conditions were terrible. He told me today that he thought he would probably
- die walking. People drove by him, they did not stop and he walked all the way back to Monroe County.
- He still lives in this county and he met me at my desk that day and he took his glove off of his hand
- and his hand was so frostbitten that we couldn't continue with the appointment and that we had to take
- him to the hospital because of his exposure. It is absolutely dangerous.
- I know this because I work with people who are released from county rule places who have no transportation
- or no way to get anywhere. And we talk about Ubers and we talk about all the things, but I can assure
- you that my time in county jail, I had no one to call to come and get me. The second human story I wanna
- tell you about is if you think about this, I want you guys to think about two blocks, okay? Two blocks,
- there was a girl,
- who was a victim of the opioid crisis, who was overprescribed to oxycodone. And that oxycodone later
- turned into a heroin addiction that made her unhoused, that kept her sleeping outside for over five
- years. She went to jail, rinse, wash, repeat numerous times, so many times that I cannot count. And
- she was released for the last time
- And the difference this time was two blocks. I walked from the county jail door. That person was me.
- It's me. I walked from the county jail door, two blocks. Two blocks, you guys. Damn it, this. Had I
- had to walk from Ellisville, you'd think I would've went. If I had to find a way from another county,
- you'd think I would've went. And I'm like,
- So I think I am well respected in this community, but there was a time when I had nobody to call to
- come and get me from jail, you guys. Nobody. I beg you guys not to do this to our community members.
- There is other answers. Pour in the resources. There are so many misties sitting in that jail that two
- blocks will change their life in their direction.
- Thank you for your time. Sorry for crying. It was really weird.
- Hi, my name is Matthew Joseph. I've been a resident here for seven years, first school and then after.
- I speak in disapproval of a new jail. Let's not be speculative about what the outcome of a new jail
- is. Let's look at what other communities have already gone through when this has happened. In Missouri,
- they faced the exact same problem, an overcrowded jail. They spent more than hundreds of millions of
- dollars on a new jail with the hope that it would maintain capacity.
- for more than 10 years. It was overcrowded again in two years. They again had to spend hundreds of millions
- of dollars on another bigger jail. Please look up this happened. And so I want you to imagine us all
- sitting here again in two years after this gets built being in the exact same scenario. And why did
- this happen?
- How do they accelerate so quickly, right, 10 to 2? And it's already been talked about, right? Research
- has shown that police are tougher on crime when a jail has lots of space. But why does that happen?
- OK, consider this. Look at all that we have gone through to make this decision. You know that they're
- going to make it their mission to justify the fact that we paid hundreds of millions of dollars and
- burdened our tax paying community.
- We are incentivizing him to say, we need a new jail. See, guys? See, county council members? See, general
- public? We need a new jail. We are incarcerating more and more people, and we're getting full. His budget
- and his name relies on this being a successful project. And success means another filled jail. And what
- are the other options? This is what I want us to consider. We already have that visionary.
- diversionary programs, problem-solving court, et cetera. If we put a fraction of this money into those,
- I think that would be an incredible option. And why not assess who's in the jail currently? Who's there
- for petty theft? Who's there for marijuana? Who needs substance use? Currently, I actually do intakes
- at the probation office. I met a lady today who was in jail for stealing a car while she was in active psychosis
- and actively grieving the death of three family members who died in the matter of weeks from each other.
- Jail did not help. You know what she said helped? EMDR, an evidence-based treatment for trauma. What?
- Wow. Fascinating. So can we let this moment make us question how we incarcerate? We can put pressure
- on our community to think about new options.
- We can get creative in this simple-minded and expensive excuse for a solution. Pick us in two years
- facing the exact same problem today if we don't make a right decision today. Let's not make a mistake
- that other communities have already learned. We're a smart city. We're a creative city. That is your
- time. Thank you. Thank you. OK. Next up, we will go back to teams. Hopi?
- you now should be able to unmute and state your name for the record and you'll have up to three minutes.
- Hi this is Hopi Stasberg and I am city council representative for district three and I just want to
- say you know about a month ago city council passed a resolution continuing to support the no vote that
- that you guys originally had regarding North Park. We had lots of reasons why and community members
- have shared a lot of those reasons tonight. And I'm sure that you guys have read the resolution. So
- I don't need to repeat that, but I do need to say that I was dismayed when I saw a press release that
- had the council president listed as though the council had made some sort of different decision or as
- though he represents more than just himself. Okay. So city council, just like county council,
- We all represent ourselves. We cannot represent the whole body unless the whole body has had some sort
- of an action or resolution about it or a public discussion about it. And our last public discussion
- about it was, I believe, unanimously in support of a no vote on North Park and the support of keeping
- jail within the city limits as close to centrally located as possible. And I just wanted to make that
- clear tonight that the statement put out yesterday does not
- represent me and as it was written only represents one council member and other City Council members
- can make whatever decisions they want to on this but I wanted to make that clear about myself. Thank
- you very much and have a great night. Thank you. Next up is Richard Garza.
- Yes. Thank you for your time. My name is Richard Garza. I worked in the Justice Center last summer.
- My comments right now are about buying the land. I hear a lot of conversation tonight about the merits
- of arresting less people, improving public services, jails in general, and the incarceration process.
- My comments are only about buying the land. Please vote yes. In August, the estimated
- cost of building this facility was $224 million. The inflation rate between then and April is about 2.79%,
- about $6.2 million just because of inaction, which breaks down to about $966 an hour just because this
- is still being deliberated. It will cost taxpayers even more if you vote no. Why would bus routes go
- to an empty field? It's going to take a lot of
- It can take about five years to build this thing, so I'm sure a bus stop can be added in that time.
- The incarceration rate is low because the beds don't exist. They're either being moved somewhere else
- or perhaps released before they should be. I've heard a lot of finger pointing going on tonight. I point
- my finger at everyone who has kicked the can down the road. Everyone that has spoken up today against
- the jail or against buying the property, they should run for office.
- They should volunteer their time at the jail or maybe even open up their homes to those who shouldn't
- be in jail and just need a place to get back on their feet. A standard is not what is communicated.
- A standard is what is tolerated. If it was not for this lawsuit and our constitution, the county probably
- would not have done anything to improve the conditions for those incarcerated individuals or the people
- who have worked in that building since the lawsuit started. That to me does not sound concerning, caring
- or humane.
- If this process to build the jail had started 10 years ago, imagine what the county could have done
- with all that time, money, and energy spent on this issue that applied to other things. Everything that
- could have been has been wasted on circular conversations that end up being forgotten because whoever
- asked those questions and made decisions along the way, they're no longer in office, and each generation
- of officials has
- just kick the can down the road asking critical questions and waiting for answers. But apparently those
- answers hasn't been shared with future officials. And for other people in the room that have heard,
- you know, there's a, there's enough procedural checks, balances, and obstacles in place that have forced
- the decision making process to take this long. Every question that has been asked tonight has been asked
- and answered before. We are here today as a result of those questions, answers, and decisions. The questions
- I hear are great.
- But they've been asked an answer before. Enough is enough. Approve the purchase agreement. Thank you.
- Thanks. All right. Next up, we had two already. So I'll go here to the NetEU room. So there, again,
- please go ahead and start lining up. And you'll sign your name. State your name for the record. You'll
- have up to three minutes.
- Hello, my name is Sam Holdeman. I am here to ask you to vote no on North Park. I think we need to start
- by understanding why people are in jail, as other public commenters have brought up. People are in jail
- because we live in a state and a society that has criminalized poverty. What I hear is that you are
- scared about what a federal judge could force you to do, and so you are preemptively doing more than
- they could ever force you to.
- They cannot force you to build on a specific site, they cannot force you to build a specific size jail,
- and they cannot force you to build a new jail, period. The logic seems to be that if you placate them
- now, they will treat you kindly in the future. That will not work. What they will do is make use of
- the giant jail you hand them to lock up anybody they don't like.
- A new jail is being presented as a final solution, as a way of washing our hands of this whole not once
- and for all. And I get why you would want to do that. It's taken up a lot of your time. It's not an
- easy problem. But a new jail is not actually a final solution. We don't get to build a new jail and
- then walk away from it and the issue is solved. The new jail will be full.
- very quickly, we will be facing overcrowding again. We will be open to fresh litigation as soon as a
- new jail is built. Boating a new jail does not mean that we're like magically no longer under any legal
- obligations or immune to lawsuit. But I'm also not asking you to do nothing. As Council Member Piedmont-Smith
- mentioned earlier,
- I'm paraphrasing approximately, but public safety is not arresting people. Public safety is providing
- access to housing, to healthcare, to jobs, to transportation, and you as the council, as the county's
- financial body, have the power to do that. So I am asking you to make a decisive commitment to
- funding, housing, healthcare, transportation, and our overall economic prosperity in this county. If
- you build a giant new jail, you simply will not be able to do that. Your hands will be tied and you'll
- be left figuring out how to make the most of the change that has left you. So I ask you to take the
- decisive step and vote no
- on North Park and instead to vote towards spending our county resources on our community. Thank you.
- Hello, my name is Seth Mutchler, resident of Monroe County. I'm going to try to keep this kind of brief,
- I know it's a long night. I have the privilege of actually serving on the board of directors of New
- Leaf New Life, so I just want to take a moment to say thank you so much to Heather and Misty
- for sharing their stories and I can tell you that that is only really the tip of the iceberg of their
- knowledge and their expertise and their compassion and the gifts that they give to this community and
- to the people who have previously been incarcerated or are incarcerated in Monroe County. I really am
- kind of struck by, there's kind of two different things being said here. The people who are asking you
- to vote yes, notably the commissioners and the sheriff,
- are really speaking about a lot of what ifs, a lot of could bes. Well, we don't know what a judge could
- make us do. We don't know what could happen. But what I'm hearing from a lot of the people who are speaking
- and asking you to vote no on this is a lot of concrete. It's those personal anecdotes that you heard.
- It's the facts.
- and figures given by people and it's the actual solutions that will make our community better. And so
- I just would ask you please to listen to sort of the folks here who are bringing these sort of real
- tangible solutions to this problem and not to sort of give in to what I'm just going to say plainly
- and simply.
- as threats and fear mongering from the other sort of side of this discussions. I hope that you vote
- no on this North Park purchase today. Thank you so much for your time. OK. Next I'll pop back over to
- teams. So first person up is John Hamilton. Again state your name for the record you have up to three
- minutes. Thank you very much. Can you see me and hear me.
- It's John, John Hamilton. Thank you. I'm a county resident and former mayor. I appreciate everybody
- their time. There are many, many good people in the room tonight doing good things. Uh, I'm sorry, I
- can't be there in person, but I just wanted to make a few points. Uh, I did submit a written statement
- to many of you. I hope it could be included in the record. I won't read it. Um, but one of the most
- important things was just reminding us the late Charlotte Zitlow.
- and I and many other people seven months ago discussed the same issue and urged that we not buy the
- big property for a big new jail and the County Council unanimously agreed and I greatly appreciate that
- as the City Council unanimously spoke. I guess I might want to say I'm asking you to vote no on this
- again but I also think that no vote can include several yeses because it is important to move forward
- together as been said.
- I believe this is a really important pivot point for our community, and the yeses can include the following.
- The yes should include a uniform, unanimous view that we want constitutional incarceration services.
- We are all committed to that. Some may think that exists now. Those who think it does not exist now,
- I believe, should be asking for more money, more staff,
- Many of us, Charlotte and I, and many of you have been urging that money be invested in better services
- years ago. And that should be a yes today. We are committed to constitutional services. The jail we
- have is going to be the jail we have for several years. So we ought to be doing that kind of investment.
- And that should be a yes tonight from all of us. Another yes should be we ought to immediately invest in funds.
- to improve the human services. There are many people in our community doing great things to improve
- the lives of people who otherwise might be incarcerated. You've heard from several of them. Again, for
- many years, many of us have been urging that that money, 20 million a year that's coming in now, should
- be invested now to improve those services. That's a yes that can happen. Another yes that can happen
- is to say, let's set a goal. Let's say we want 150 residents in our
- in our jail in 10 years. Not the 200 plus that we have now, certainly not the 300 that we had several
- years ago. Let's set a positive goal and yes, what will it take to get us there? And if we set that
- kind of goal, we have a very, very different process which can begin. How would we build a jail for
- 150 people in 10 years and what kind of services will get us there? The last other thing I would say is a yes,
- and some of us averged this for some time too, is to just say, for every dollar we put into new incarceration
- costs, let's be sure we put a new dollar into diversion and service costs that will reduce incarceration.
- You are being told that you have no choice. That is just not true. A no vote is really important, moving
- us in the right direction. Charlotte and I talked about that. Many of you in the room did as well. And
- that is your time.
- Thank you very much. Thank you. Next up, screen name, Alice Silver. Can you hear me? Yes, if you can
- speak up a little bit, because it's a little faint. OK, right there.
- Yes, just state your name for the record and you'll have up to three minutes. Okay, good evening. My
- name is Alice Silver. I'm a resident and I'm a mom of four small children and I live three minutes from
- the North Park location. We keep hearing officials just fear to justify this project. They say people
- shouldn't be released because of safety, but at the same time, they want to place these facilities near
- our neighborhoods and near our children.
- three minutes from where my children play. If these individuals are not safe, then why are residents
- expected to feel safe with this happening in the middle of our neighborhoods? And let's be honest, I
- have another concern and a lot of our neighbors have the same concern. How can we know this is not gonna
- become a nice detention facility or just be used to target the immigrant population or the own house
- communities?
- We need to know what agencies can be involved once you build this giant facility, who is involved, and
- what protection exists for residents. Instead of pushing this jail to get done, you should be pushing
- new businesses, new facilities, things that make our life easier and better. You also keep referencing
- the ACLU, but
- Where in that lawsuit says that we need brand new state of the art courtrooms, chair of office, or a
- millionaire style government complex. Improving conditions for inmate is one thing, but building new
- expensive spaces is something different. Right now, a lot of people feel ignored, but we want safe neighborhoods
- And we want honest answers. And that's not extreme. People need to know that this money to buy this
- and to build this does not exist. We don't have the money. This is debt. That's all. Thank you.
- Thank you. Next up in the room.
- Good evening, counselors. My name is Susan Easton. I'm a resident of the Stony Brook neighborhood, and
- my husband and I have lived there for the past 22 and a half years. Along with the with the 23 other
- residences in Stony Brook, I stand opposed to the new jail located at the North Park site. We believe
- that the Thompson site is the better choice for the taxpayer are documented
- and loudly repeats what other taxpaying citizens and social services organizations have stated. Firstly,
- fiscal stability. Secondly, accessibility and social justice, which is a key factor in reducing recidivism
- and helping to improve public safety. And thirdly, concurrent progress versus sequential delay. I was
- up here two weeks ago. Tonight, I'm up here really to thank you.
- for your extreme patience as the county commissioners continuously attempt to promote North Park versus
- other logical thought processes. Secondly want to thank you for your continued request of financial
- data as you fight for each taxpayer dollar being spent now and in future generations. And lastly and
- ultimately thank you for your perseverance.
- in opposing and your opposition to the new jail for those of you that continue to vote no and the impending
- justice complex center that will come in the future. It's not just the new jail today. Thank you.
- Thank you. Anybody here in the net who would like to make public comment on this item?
- Thank you for letting me speak this evening. My name is Mike Shields. Born in Bloomington, Indiana,
- 1946. Stayed in Bloomington, Indiana, 1926. Have no plans to leave. Love my city. I back the police.
- I really do love the police. Behind them 100%. I don't know what the answer to this is, but I can tell
- you what the answer's not. Building on North Park.
- 43 years ago I built a new home one mile from there. Quiet. Today we have a real nice facility with
- ambulances 24 7 sirens sirens sirens. We're going to get the same thing from the Police Department right
- here in this article. It says the Council, the staff, Sheriff and the Board of Commissioners can can
- comment securing better safety and more constitutional conditions for the people housed in Monroe County Jail.
- while in protecting Monroe County from the financial and legal consequences of further delay. How about
- the people who live around there? We're not even mentioned. You're going to take care of the people
- in the jail. What about the residents? I don't think we can feel safe with that out there like that.
- You've got a real traffic problem. Highway 46, nobody's mentioned that. I can't imagine what that would
- be. And then you've got an elderly facility real close by that that will affect. We probably need a jail.
- but we probably need to be a little more reasonable about what we're doing here. That's a lot of money.
- My taxes are gonna go up. I'm old, I'm retired. I don't wanna pay more taxes. I wanna be safe, but I
- don't wanna pay more taxes. And all I can say is North Park is not it. Find something better. I don't
- know what the answer is. And I hope we find something, but this is not it.
- I'm going to pop back here to team's screen name, Cheryl. Hello. Hi, we can hear you. Can you hear me?
- My name is Cheryl Langdon. I'm a citizen of Monroe County. I was there the last meeting.
- Again, I'm going to point out a couple of things that I agree with. I agree with Mr. Garza. I think
- he made a lot of great logical points and it sounds understandable. The last gentleman that just spoke
- made some great points because here on Vernal Pike, we were put up by two different
- Chambers of Commerce, Bloomington, and Ellisville and thrown under the bus as a Hail Mary. No one cared
- about that being in our front yard, backyard, and bedroom windows. So it's funny how it's not my backyard
- for everybody, but I agree with that last gentleman. And then John Hamilton, the ex-mayor, gee,
- I don't know, yet opened up the door to welcome people that have addiction problems.
- that are homeless that are struggling. And now the Monroe County taxpayers have to pay for the Welcome
- Act that Mr. Hamilton put out there. So with all that being said, you know, maybe it is better that
- a federal judge has something to say. I didn't have a problem with it being at North Park because we
- are going to grow. I don't see an issue with the whole ice thing. I think that's paranoia.
- One minute someone doesn't want it in their yard, but they're trying to say that it's going to be used
- for ICE. Are you saying that what ICE does and who they pick up is dangerous or not dangerous? I'm a
- little confused because everyone is in every direction. So honestly, I don't want it over here outside
- of the city of Bloomington. Mayor Hamilton made that all happen. If you stay in the city of Bloomington,
- in my opinion,
- and keep it their problem. Mayor Hamilton made that happen. Thank you. Thank you. So next up we have,
- excuse me, R. Miller. R. Miller, you should be able to unmute yourself.
- And you hear me now? Yes, stay your name for the record. You'll have up to three minutes. Great, I was
- having a hard time unmuting. It's OK. Renee Miller, thank you for your time this evening. I appreciate
- it. This body has already voted no on this location, and the people are pushed and bullied or scared.
- They vote in ways not always in all's best interest. I think we see that on a national level,
- don't we? So surely by now,
- people know what no means. I know as a woman, I sure as heck know what the word no means. It's a refusal.
- Stop asking our county government to waste their time yet again on this poor location. We need social
- services close by. This isn't going to work. Also, I'd just like to point out, just because someone
- is arrested does not mean they are guilty.
- Statistics show that over 70% of people being held in jail haven't been convicted of any crimes. So
- I want you to think about that. We don't need a larger jail. We certainly don't need one farther away
- from the downtown area. Thank you for your time. I will come back to the room here. Hi, my name is Jamie
- Ford. I'm a Monroe County resident.
- Good evening, counsel. I've been following this jail issue for a long time now, and since I wasn't even
- living in Indiana at the time this lawsuit was originally filed, I've tried to do my own research and
- read up on the history of this whole thing. Based on what I've seen both historically and in statements
- from the commissioners, I have more questions than answers.
- first in the 12th May council meeting commissioner Madeira makes the statement about the Thompson property
- saying which I'm quoting from the cats TV YouTube transcript of the meeting quote here are the issues
- with that property speaking out Thompson the City Plan Commission and the City Council must approve
- a change to the plan unit development or PUD we can't proceed without that approval my question is is
- the city of Bloomington's quote ordinance
- 02-16 to amend the preliminary plan for the Thompson area planned unit development that was passed and
- signed in August of 2002 still in effect. Granted, I don't know specifically what exact area track D
- of the Thompson property is or how big it is, but the synopsis on the second page underneath the signatures
- from the then
- Common Council President, Clerk, and Mayor, it states, quote, this ordinance amends the preliminary
- plan for Track D of the Thompson area planned unit development to allow for juvenile and adult corrections
- and rehabilitative facilities and a range of institutional uses. This ordinance also changes the shape
- of Track D and amends some of the developmental conditions, end quote.
- This means that, in addition to the county purchasing the Thompson property for a jail, as confirmed
- by a Herald Times article dated December 14, 2002, the city of Bloomington, at least at one time, approved
- a PUD change for the purposes of building a jail on the Thompson property. Is this PUD still valid?
- Did the commissioners try to renew or update it? If not, why?
- Second, I'm disturbed by what can be at best described as a misrepresentation of the truth or,
- in my opinion, an outright lie from the commissioners. At the last council meeting on May 12th, Commissioner
- Madari gave the following statement, which again I'm quoting from the CATS TV YouTube transcript.
- quote, we've done our due diligence investigating properties across the county, end quote. She then
- mentions the Fullerton and Thompson properties, et cetera, and the various issues. Yet in the comment
- section of a post related to the jail lawsuit on her own public Facebook page approximately a week later,
- she contradicts what she said in the meeting. A fellow Monroe County resident was asking questions and
- making statements in favor of choosing the Thompson property since the county already owns it. Commissioner
- Madera responds, citing the most recent ACLU extension agreement, as well as, quote, a decision for
- Thompson at this point is
- responsible since we don't have our due diligence done on that site." End quote. The Monroe County resident
- responds again still in favor of Thompson. Commissioner Madera replies, quote, that's one reason why
- we're in this situation. North Park is the only site we have due diligence on. It's the site that the
- county chose beforehand. End quote.
- Again, in a statement to this council in a public government meeting, Commissioner Madeira said that
- the commissioners had done their due diligence on various properties and commissioners Thomas and Jones
- didn't correct her or didn't amend it or say it was accurate. Yet on a public social media page a week
- later, Commissioner Madeira states that the only due diligence was done for North Park.
- My question for that is, what is the truth? Have they done their due diligence or have they not? It
- seems that Monroe County does already have the property and if the PUD is valid, then we have what we
- need to proceed with the Thompson property. I'll point out that to the best of my knowledge,
- the commissioners have not proposed a plan to remedy the currently unconstitutional conditions. And
- that is your time, unfortunately. Thank you. All right, thank you. All right, next up.
- My name is Kathleen Paquette. I'm a resident of Monroe County. I'm sorry, my thoughts might be a little
- bit jumbled today. I've just been taking notes as we've been sitting here. But I think it's important
- to point out for those watching online that Commissioner Thomas left as soon as public comment started.
- I think that that's telling. The sheriff's presentation was intended to convince you all to move forward
- with North Park. For me, it did the opposite. I'm sorry, sheriff.
- The sheriff says that the numbers are going up. To me, that's the crisis that needs intervention. He
- talks about public safety. We are in a housing unaffordability crisis, and our state has just passed
- a law criminalizing homelessness. That is the crisis that needs intervention. Our most vulnerable neighbors
- are in danger of being thrown into jail. That is the crisis that needs intervention. I understand that
- lawsuits are expensive and scary,
- But I can't help but wonder if some of this is a little bit of a manufactured crisis to force consent
- for this. Because to me, I see crises elsewhere. And considering the amounts of money we're talking
- about with hundreds and hundreds of million dollars on a new jail, the lawsuit seems cheaper. Also,
- The statement issued by the commissioners, City Council President Asari and Mayor Thompson says that
- no one should pretend that North Park is the outcome anyone hoped for. And that continues to outline
- all of the reasons that North Park is a bad site. There's an admission in that document that this is
- a doubling down of a bad decision. I've seen you all listen. Thank you for listening to us all tonight.
- Thank you all for being here and speaking. I'm sorry that your colleagues are throwing you under the
- bus with this. But please continue to vote no on North Park. Thank you. I don't see any hands raised
- via Zoom. So we'll keep going in here until we have it.
- Um, so we just had one just popped up, but then we got, it's okay. You're here. So we'll, we'll go back.
- Good evening council. My name is Kayden Smith. I'm a resident of the county, but.
- more importantly, a taxpayer. I have five points to make, so I got to go quickly. So first, I'm going
- to respond to the commissioner's comments. And I want to say why I have to respond is because I can't
- attend a 10 AM meeting on a Thursday. Like most of the people here, I work on Thursdays, and I don't
- have time. And I'm often late to these meetings because I work until 5 PM. So firstly, Commissioner
- Medeo is top.
- comments. She says she wants to work collaboratively, but if the council voted no in October, why are
- you bringing it back again? Shouldn't you bring something different? It doesn't sound like you're working
- collaboratively to me. And like other people said, if the council voted no, I just don't believe the
- commissioners can really accept that. And that's why they're continuously bringing this back. And then
- I'll also highlight the grip that the commissioners have on the government. When the sheriff turns to
- Commissioner Medillo in her personal life as an attorney, rather than
- the two attorneys that I'm looking at over on the side table over here, because the sheriff and the
- commissioners are really tight, apparently. My second point on to Commissioner Thomas, the fact that
- she left the room because she doesn't... The meetings are at 10 a.m. because she doesn't want to hear
- from the public, and she doesn't want to hear from the public now because she left the room.
- And to restate, she's been in county government since 2008. Isn't that when the lawsuit started? And
- now she wants the council to solve the problems in two seconds. And thirdly, I'll go into public transit,
- which is something I reiterated before. And Commissioner Thomas doesn't know how to solve it. She admitted
- that we'll figure it out later, but why should I figure it out later? I'd like to know what I'm voting
- on now. And she was like, I don't want to have a bus line to a cornfield.
- I'm sorry, if we're gonna have a bus line, isn't it gonna go to more places than a cornfield? I just
- feel like Commissioner Thomas doesn't understand how public transit works, which is honestly frightening.
- And also, just to add that the location is just abysmal, which is gonna have sprawling neighborhoods
- and large interstates, which just decreases public safety and walkability to the jail.
- As many people said, I'm willing to vote yes on something, but I think the Thompson site looks a lot
- more likely because we do need to solve something quickly. Forwardly, back to the federal judge issue.
- The threat of a federal judge is way more likely than we think. And I'm honestly looking forward to
- the fact, instead of paying $200 million in taxpayers because I don't want my taxes to increase, I think
- that's one thing that I can agree with the commissioners on.
- And finally, before my time runs out, I'll reiterate. In case you forgot what I was saying, I would
- like a vote no. And I agree with what Councilmember Isabel P. Mott-Smith said, but I'm going to disagree
- with one thing. When she said she wasn't envious, I actually am, because I would sit in your seat and
- vote no. So I want you to consider that. Thank you. OK.
- I'll pop back to teams and if there are other people that want to raise their hand via teams and want
- to speak, go ahead and do that. Don Johnson, unmute yourself and you'll have up to three minutes. Hello,
- thank you for this opportunity. I'm not going to repeat all of the, any of the comments previously made
- urging you to vote no again.
- I want to make just one additional point. So I'm Dawn Johnson. I'm a constitutional law professor at
- Indiana University. And I've worked many years at the Department of Justice, the United States Department
- of Justice. I just want to put this in a national context briefly and say I started my career as a lawyer
- for the American Civil Liberties Union back in 1988.
- the national organization, the national office. And at that time, I actually worked with the ACLU of
- Indiana on at least three cases. But going back to the national position that I believe reflects the
- view of our community in Monroe County, the National ACLU, if you look at their website, is very clear
- about what we should be doing. And I agree.
- completely about this. We should be reducing the rate of incarceration and focusing our resources on
- that. Addiction services, affordable housing. And I just want to read just a couple sentences from the
- ACLU national website on mass incarceration. And here's a quote. I urge you all to look at the full
- statement. Despite making up close to 5% of the population of the world,
- The US has more than 20% of the world's prison population. Since 1970, our incarcerated population has
- increased by 500%. It includes our prison system costs taxpayers $80 billion per year. This money should
- be spent building up, not further harming communities. Investments, not incarceration, is how we improve
- safety. So of course, we need a constitutional jail.
- But what we should be doing and should have been doing, and now let's start today, is investing in decreasing
- the number of our fellow residents that we incarcerate. Thank you for this opportunity. Thank you. Anybody
- else on teams that would like to make comment?
- So while people deliberate on teams, because there's lots of y'all out there, I'll come back to the
- room here. So if you'd like to make comment, please go ahead and step up.
- My name is Christian Easton. My wife Susan spoke earlier. I was the last to speak last time, last week,
- I think. I'm probably gonna say almost exactly the same thing. The sheriff needs a jail. So you had
- a chance last week to take a vote and be two weeks ahead of the game. Moving down this, I mean, I don't
- understand, you can't even get,
- You can't get the vote right. I mean, so when I were here again doing this, talking about this, I thought
- that the council had decided last week what they thought about the North Park. They could have then
- moved on to where is the jail going to be? I worked in this town as a police officer for 32 years.
- I trained officers. I did a lot of things. I was in the jail and out of the jail. I go to jail and ministry
- and stuff like that. So I think I know how all that stuff works. A lot of people get their own ticket
- to jail because they evidently want to go there. Policemen don't drive down the street looking for people
- to grab. They're not going around looking for trouble to slow somebody in a jail to overcrowd the jail.
- They're just not doing that. That just happens to be part of life right now. And it's getting worse
- instead of better. And so the jail,
- will have to be a little larger. And I think the facility needs to have all the tools there nearby for
- the court, for the offices that are gonna be in that jail or need to furnish the people in the jail
- their rights. They have to go to court, they have to have the hearing, they need judges, they need public
- defenders, and they need medical attention. Now, as far as the other things that have been mentioned,
- I don't know about taking them out of jail and letting them be told the things that they should have
- known to do in public to begin with. But I think if they want to, the jail can accommodate that, that
- would be right. But those are the things that need to be designed into the new facility and be put in
- place and realize that from that point on, if you don't want the thing to be gone, like some people
- say two years, it'll be, if you want it to be gone in 50 years, I mean, you start taking care of it.
- because you can make that building last. They have lasted. If they're designed right and you get in
- and you build it right and then the money and the staff and then the way it's operated, it can work,
- but it can't be done if you don't start. And I'm urging you to quit talking about it and start doing
- it, okay? This is probably the last time you ought to talk about this and have a vote, have a lot of
- people come up here and stand and vent and frustrate about the way things go in life.
- I know the man's got, he would like to see North Park because it's close to being decided. It's not.
- You have property. I live in North Park. I don't care if you build there, but I just think that if you've
- already got something, you better start building on it now. Thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you. Next
- up in the room.
- My name is Stacey Dawski and I want to thank you guys for letting us speak again. I was here two weeks
- ago and I'm really not going to repeat everything that I said last week. There's a lot I'm going to
- beg you to vote no and to continue. I know that you've done that in the past and it's ridiculous that
- we're here again. To the county commissioners. The fact that you brought up. You need to use your mic.
- The fact that you
- brought up this lawsuit and basically threatening everybody about what's going to happen and what could
- happen and all of these things is a joke. Because this could have been resolved months ago, years ago,
- when they said no to this site, another site could have already been selected. We could have been moving
- forward instead of just sitting here not doing anything.
- They've already said no. The people have already said no. And yet, here we are. You've brought it back
- up. I do believe that you need resources, space, services. We have the Thompson site. It's out there.
- Why are we spending more money, throwing more money away? And I know I said I wasn't going to talk about
- what I said last week or two weeks ago.
- I really just want to thank you guys for the support that you've given us in the past and I really hope
- that you're listening to the community and you're voting with your hearts and that you vote no. Thank you.
- Good evening. My name is Andrew Henry. I'm a Monroe County resident. We heard that the sheriff needs
- a jail and the sheriff has a jail. It's in terrible shape and it did not get that way overnight. This
- entire process has been a slow motion train wreck over years where the jail we have has ended up in
- this current condition and now we feel that we have an emergency and we have to act. The commissioners
- have said that we have to
- play the hand we're dealt and yet it seems that every opportunity they draw three more cards and now
- haven't they've given us an uno hand full of problem cards. It's called going on tilt if we don't have
- a good hand and I don't believe North Park is a good hand I urge the council to vote no on North Park.
- There isn't an easy solution to this problem but the fact that it is dragged on for so long means that
- rather than abdication the recognition that
- The current organs of government in this county are not able to reach a workable solution. Maybe a federal
- judge has to tie break that because we have a responsibility to our residents who are incarcerated to
- put them in a safe and humane facility. If we don't have that, we have to provide it. Spending an inordinate
- amount of money on the North Park site is no solution at all to the actual problem. It just creates
- much larger, bigger problems down the road. So I urge the council to vote no on it. The last comment
- was Commissioner Madera specifically has repeatedly said, both online and in previous meetings and here,
- that the lawsuit is a foregone conclusion. We don't have a leg to stand on. And at the same time seems
- to be saying, and yet we're going to have to spend a ludicrous amount of money continuing to fight the
- lawsuit that we know we can't win. If we can't win the lawsuit,
- The responsible action would be to take the shortest possible path to concede that lawsuit and move
- on to whatever actions a federal judge enforces on the county. It would be ridiculously irresponsible
- to continue to burn more taxpayer money trying to fight a lawsuit that we've already admitted we can't
- win. So I urge the council to vote no on North Park. Thank you.
- I'll go to one more here, and then it looks like we got a hand raised via Teams. Steve Olin.
- The commissioners are solely responsible for initiating the construction of a jail. The county council
- did not have authority to draw up plans and present them. When you rejected this proposal, did they
- work assiduously to present another option?
- Did they do any soul searching to ask why so many of their prior proposals were rejected? Did they listen
- to anyone? They did not. They came back to you with the same objectionable proposal. There is no one
- else who prefers this location for a jail. The sheriff will tell you we need a jail. The newest commissioner
- will tell you we no longer have a choice. Their responses are understandable. Yet those do not constitute
- endorsements of this site as inherently good.
- there simply attempts to deal with the problem the other commissioners created. Because no one has said
- this site is preferable on the merits except commissioners Thomas and Jones. They ignored the will of
- this body and have doubled down. For years, they've ignored the opinions of everyone else who weighed
- in on the merits. I was a city council member when the commissioners floated Fullerton Pike as a location.
- That body, the city council rejected the site 90, which is really saying something about that contentious body.
- But it wasn't because the city collectively was unwilling to work with the commissioners. We all were.
- I personally authored the ordinance allowing Bloomington Transit to go outside the city. Thompson was
- always a viable site that could have been converted long ago. It was that the commissioners weren't
- even willing to follow the spirit of our zoning law, let alone the letter. It was because they didn't
- ask, what can we get done together? They asked, why can't you do what we say?
- Either the commissioners aren't competent to fulfill their duties, or they've been dealing with you
- in bad faith. They're counting on you to overlook their failure of imagination, their incompetence,
- their many years of unwillingness to brook dissent, however politely. If you approve this, you'll show
- that if the commissioners drag their feet long enough, they'll get their druthers in the face of all
- evidence that shows it's a bad idea. You'll reward their negligence, their intransigence, even their
- contempt for you,
- for the city of Bloomington, the people of Monroe County, and most of all, the incarcerated, whom the
- commissioners could have spared an unconstitutional jail years ago if only they had applied an ounce
- of diplomacy. Whatever your vote tonight, do not take responsibility for a failure that rests solely
- with the commissioners. Send the message that the county must not be subjected to a reorganization of
- its physical plant that will be permanent, catastrophic, and avoidable.
- If this was the best they had to offer, let their next act be to send a message that might get the ACLU
- to back off. Let them do the honorable thing and resign their seats. Thank you. Okay, we will go back to
- So Jason Funk, please go ahead and unmute and you'll have up to three minutes. Jason, you should be
- able to unmute.
- We're going to move on to the other public comment, and then we'll go back to Jason. Tracy, you should
- also be able to unmute, state your name for the record. You have 30 minutes. Hi, yes. My name is Tracy
- Hutchings-Gatz. Hi.
- I'm actually calling in from the airport because this is so important to me. I testified previously
- in opposition to the North Park location and shared some of my family's own experience, which was really
- about underscoring the human impact of moving these services out away from where the majority of people
- in the county live and the majority of services reside. So if you'll recall, my uncle Wally,
- who had been experiencing homelessness at the time, struggled with addiction, struggled with
- jail incarceration, never was actually sent, you know, like convicted, but spent a lot of time in and
- out of jails because he was someone who was struggling with his mental health and his addiction. And
- he is someone who walking home tripped and fell and broke his neck. And these are the kinds of experiences
- that if we commit to this North Park location are going to increase
- for our residents and their loved ones if we insist on building far away from where people are and the
- services that they need. So I'm just calling in again to underscore my opposition to this particular
- location and my profound disappointment and frustration that we have not yet been able to find a solution
- when this litigation has been ongoing for, you know, over a decade at this point. Thank you so much.
- Thank you. Okay, we're gonna go back to Jason. Are you able to unmute? TSD, are we able to help him?
- TSD, hello.
- Um. Is he able to unmute TSD or okay. All right. So I'm going to pop back over. Um, while that's still
- a work in progress and see if there's anybody else that's here that want to make public comment. In
- the net you hillbilly.
- Okay, I will pop back over to teams to see if there is anybody on teams that would like to make final
- public comment on this item. And to see if screen name Jason Funk is still able to unmute and make public
- comment. Oh, okay.
- way anybody's ability to not be able to speak. Okay. So with that being said, I'm going to go ahead
- and close public comment. And I'm going to bring it back to council members for final questions and
- or comments before we take a vote on this. Yes, Councillor. I'd like to offer my statement. Madam President.
- I am optimistic about the future of Monroe County. What follows are my thoughts on this problem. This
- window of opportunity presented this ordinance in my mind is the only path forward in 17 years of decrepit
- discussion and move us toward action based on an ancient requirement that we might do justice, that
- we might love mercy, and that we might walk humbly.
- ahead of this vote, I have done what I feel is my due diligence. I have discussed this vote with as
- many constituents as I can from as many diverse backgrounds as I can. This includes clergy, first responders,
- mental health professionals, public safety professionals, county employees, former and current elected
- officials, attorneys, and more. What I'm hearing from folks out in the first district is they want us
- to end 17 years of indecision.
- What I'm hearing is that they want action. What I detail now is the way that I see this issue through
- an intersectionality lens. Thanks to these constituent conversations, I now think in four commingled
- categories, financing, timing, the law, and community values. I hope that you'll agree with me that
- affirmative action tonight is not the ideal choice, but it is the optimal one. First, finances.
- We do have a viable fiscal path forward. And this is the cheapest option for the people of Monroe County.
- I call this the affirmative option. In October 2025, this body correctly and unanimously rejected a
- purchase agreement for this property because the state restricted our funding. We simply could not afford
- the jail project as designed. This would change just six months later.
- At the April 28th, 2026 meeting, this council meeting, a path opened. In the presentation with the Financial
- Solutions Group, our community learned about a $135 million bond. Council asked questions, and it was
- clear that it was an opportunity to move forward. The media covered this topic. CATS recorded it. It
- was reposted on YouTube. I wrote an explainer on my website. And this financing allows us to at last,
- after 17 years, move forward. There is a counter option.
- that relies on litigation to solve this problem. This is the litigation option. This option is initially
- attractive because it offers a solution that avoids commissioner control. But on further examination,
- the litigation option is much more costly. But it would mean that the following costs we added to the
- taxpayer burden, millions of dollars in current building renovations throughout the lawsuits,
- millions of dollars in prisoner transfers throughout the lawsuits, and millions of dollars in legal
- fees. And what happens at the end of litigation? We will still have construction costs. We will still
- have bond interest to pay. We will still have other costs associated with various locations to pay.
- The point is that adding no adds dollar amounts, millions of dollars, to an already outrageous budget.
- But since I mentioned the deadline, let me move on to timing, my second point. This is a complicated
- project, we all know this. We've been talking about it for 17 years, but now an opening does appear,
- converging at least four deadlines in an opportunity to act. And for those of you who don't think that
- we have a reason to act other than false urgency, the most urgent deadline is the most important to
- me. This deadline has passed, time is up.
- This is the deadline set by those who are the most forgotten. This is the deadline set by our neighbors
- who are most ignored. It is those who are incarcerated, the 263 persons who slept in the jail last night.
- They are experiencing the worst harms and has been explained over and over again by those working in
- those facility
- We need to move folks out now. We don't have time to wait for the litigation option. We are far, far
- behind in this inmate deadline and action is needed tonight. The second clear deadline is the ACLU deadline.
- We've talked about this ad nauseam. I don't need to discuss it. The third is the legislative deadline.
- According to both FSG and excuse me, Barnes and Thornburg,
- They recommend action before the biannual budget session later this year. Only the affirmative option
- allows us to stay on track with the legislative timeline. The final deadline is the lengthy bonding
- timeline. According to Barnes and Thornburg, the bonding process, the incorporation of a building
- corporation, the leasing processes, these complicated in and of themselves will take up to five months
- to complete. Thus, action is recommended by July.
- meaning that our action tonight on the purchase agreement allows us to adhere to this timeline. It should
- be clear now that I feel that the window for action is tonight. It has to be tonight. The litigation
- option misses every single one of these deadlines. And the most egregious part in my mind is that a
- vote for this option looks into the eyes of those hundreds of people that slept in the jail last night
- and says that you are still forgotten.
- The litigation option has no timelines. And for those of you saying, oh, hold on, Peter, hold on. You're
- being too binary. There's more than two options. I appreciate this. And I understand that we're looking
- at more than one location. But we haven't seen a viable timeline for any other location. We haven't
- seen a timeline for Thompson. We haven't seen a timeline for Fullerton. We don't have a timeline for
- the litigation option that we can go to.
- excuse me, the sheriff or the correctional officers to say, this is how much longer you have to wait.
- We do have a timeline for this ordinance. We do know how long folks are going to have to linger in the
- jail. From a purely timeline perspective, my vote is to stop ignoring the inmates and those that work
- in this building. And my vote is to give hope that this council understands that this hard decision
- is a just decision.
- Now let me move on to my fourth point, my final point, which is community values. I reflected on this
- at a past church service that I attended where there's a passage that says that I am eager to do good.
- And I wanted to raise this because I think that's what unifies all of us in this room. I think that
- all of us come to the table with a desire to do good.
- I've seen it in the JFAC meetings. I've seen it in numerous meetings that we've been in together, that
- there is a desire to do good. And in fact, I wanted to highlight that in 2023, together with a lot of
- people in this room, we enumerated community values using the sequential intercept model. We know where
- we need to go. Community services, and some of you are in this audience right now that are doing great
- work. Reentry from jail. How do we do this and how do we do it better?
- Community Corrections has the right people right now. They just need more resources. Diversity, Equity,
- Inclusion. We know that there's an over-representation of African Americans in our jail. We know that
- ICE is racially profiling people on the streets in our cities. Treatment. The Substance Use Disorder
- Advisory Commission is right now putting the finishing drafts on recommendations to the county commissioners
- for treatment facilities. We are putting dollar amounts on facilities as we speak. That is coming.
- also made recommendations regarding justice building system-wide topics. We know that our community
- values, these seven areas of values, are important long-term work. And we know that our time on this
- dais in public service is short, that we can only do the best while we're here. But friends, we cannot
- continue to enact these community value recommendations if we spend three more years arguing, not in
- front of the public, not in recorded sessions, but in court.
- We must act affirmatively to do justice. The time for debate is over. The time to do is now. So let
- me conclude that I think it's clear that I plan to vote yes on this ordinance because I believe that
- the confluence of financing, timing, local control, and community values demand that we vote and act
- decisively, not because of a false urgency.
- but because and on behalf of those incarcerated. My vision is that we can influence decisions toward
- mercy, that this council can end 17 years of stalemate by doing justice, that this council can move
- with humility, knowing that our role in this messy process is important. And let me repeat, there are
- no ideal choices here.
- This is a terrible decision to be making right now. A vote for the litigation option is kicking the
- can down the road at least three years. A vote for the affirmative option presents a solution
- that perpetuates a system that jails too many people. There are no ideal solutions to us tonight, but
- there is a marginally optimal one. This evening, we have a viable path forward to end 17
- years of stalemate. Sit with that for a second. We have an opportunity to end a stalemate that predates
- all of our service. It's available today and I affirmatively to do justice, to love mercy while walking
- humbly is now. Thank you, Madam President.
- to hearing what others said. We have not heard from Council Member Deckard, but he wasn't present at
- our last meeting. And we missed you. So I'll be able to- Sure. I'll just go and those that wish to speak
- can speak. So go ahead. First, I wrote some notes out here.
- about three pages. I never read anything for anyone that's ever watched me in a meeting and I'm going
- to try that for once because I think it's an important night. We've heard a lot of tremendous comments
- and I want to thank all the constituents that have weighed in on this. Some of you over the years, I
- see Seth out there, others at different times. I want to thank you for that. I also want to thank the
- county officials who have reached out to me numerous times
- over the weeks and particularly the last week with a whole range of opinions on this purchase agreement.
- It is not easy for any constituent to walk into a room like this or go on to a team's meeting like that
- and to talk. It's not. And I can remember when I was in the opposite side of that, it can be intimidating
- not to mention the time required to track something we struggled to track and struggle to follow
- is hard enough. But I do appreciate all those emails, phone calls, public comments. And when I was council
- president, and Councilor Crossley is our president in her second year has really kept us up. I always
- was insistent that we welcome public comments that the day that Nat U Hill doesn't have people in it
- is the day that we probably need to call it quits on this democracy, but there's something here worth
- fighting for. My day job did take me away.
- at our last council meeting. I have earnestly watched those proceedings. I listened to all those thoughts.
- So everyone that said something, I heard that, I read your emails, and I've seen that. We have been
- talking about this a long time. Some of the comments that I've heard over the years, I could almost
- kind of say, well, I think that this is going to go like this, and sometimes
- that's why we have public. Comment we've had a supporters and detractors- from this very purchase agreement
- and to me tonight is about. This purchase agreement I voted no on the original purchase agreement last
- October's party believe is last October. I did so at that time because a whole host of issues vex the council
- Regardless of those opinions that each of those council members had, we always have to remember this.
- This gets lost in the shuffle, and I'll say this as a person that's been a candidate for another office
- in recent months. It should never be lost that county council members truly represent the voice of taxpayers
- before significant public decisions.
- through the seven souls that say on that funding, based on that whole crowd of 140,000 behind me, some
- that voted for and some that voted against, I think we need to do that. This is not an easy burden to
- just kind of shrug off. A county council has to consider how things are funded, what that looks like,
- and where that gets to. And some of these counselors here have heard, some of you in the public have
- heard me say,
- any movement forward has to get to four votes in this body out of seven. It has to get to two votes
- in the other body, the commissioners. And of course, the sheriff whose input we've heard throughout
- this process and leadership we've seen has weighed in over time, but those are kind of the bodies. Anything
- that's not hitting four, hitting two and getting a nod out of that sheriff is sort of like,
- I don't know, putting water on that light socket over there. And unfortunately, the county, we spend
- a lot of time putting water on light sockets. And I wish that weren't so. I wish I could change that,
- but it's probably the nature of how we're built when the state built us this way. But regardless,
- in October, there was concern. At that time, it was a unanimous agreement
- of council not to move forward and in time we've continued to hear opinions from taxpayers regarding
- this site that some of which that was added in to tonight that keep the community from having peace
- with the North Park site. We've heard that regardless. I think
- much of that discord comes from many comments and questions we continue to get. And I'm not going to
- belabor all of them, because this audience covered them well. But logistically, there are strong discussions
- of which folks are not satisfied. And I would have to bet my mortgage tonight to say, based on conversations
- I've had, based on furrow brows, that four votes are not necessarily forthcoming to have peace on some of this.
- I have kept an open mind I've suspended judgment I've tried to put this matter in the best light, ultimately
- this evening, I will vote the way I voted in October and I will vote no. That said, that said I want
- to be clear by my nature.
- by the nature of how I think, and you can hear this four and this two, which I've said over and over,
- and the sheriff in the mix with that, I believe you solve problems, you don't extend them. And so while
- I appreciate very much what my colleague, Councilor Iverson, who's a strong leader and a tremendous
- voice for this council, has said about tonight, to me, we're continuing to solve this problem.
- I'm sure that many people will say voting no extends the problem, and that's fair. I'll take that. I'll
- take that punch on the chin. But respectfully, that zero-sum kind of argument is what's killing us in
- politics and in this county, particularly when we're in a time when people are not only counting us
- on to move, but honor a constitution which says you have to move.
- One thing I have said consistently in this process, or I've tried, our sheriff has done a remarkable
- job in improving our jail. He's gone above, beyond, and remarkably transparent in talking about the
- changes that have been made. His staff comes in here with passion, including the commander there. They
- come in here with a passion that I would hope everyone would have for their work.
- and that's made a huge difference. No one can reasonably question that reality. But a solution to this
- problem to get to four-year, two in the other, has to be feasible, believable, fiscally sustainable.
- It has to contend with long-term realities and bring peace for folks making that decision. And too often,
- friends, too often, I hear murmurings that say,
- It's a decent and well, I don't know that it's a decent choice, but it's got a lot of issues. I don't
- know how this is gonna work. That's not been put to peace, okay? So the solution that we come up with
- has to have answers to big questions on logistics within the community and it has to ultimately get
- to that passage. So again, peace comes in the form of four here, two in there. Now, some people say,
- well, when you want four here,
- and two there on an ideal side, that's looking for perfection. That's not perfection. Perfection would
- be seven here, three there. And if perfection is so hard that we can't get to majority vote, we need
- to redefine our use of perfection. We gotta work harder. So what do we do now? In my opinion, I'm sorry
- for going so long here, but I wanna make sure I cover what I need to. I think we move forward in earnest,
- continuing
- our talks between what site works for a location. We've had before us North Park four times, three,
- four times. It's clearly not working. And I wish for all the passion around it, I wish I had a different
- answer, but we've had colleagues that have mentioned the Thompson site. I remember our Fullerton discussion
- And I have to admit that while both of those sites have problems, I think that eyesight on them changes
- over time as we continue to examine this. If I had a preference there, and I know this is probably not
- popular with a lot of folks, to me it's more Fullerton than not, because I think that there's issues
- that we've not addressed. But again, regardless of what I think, one of these sites has to get to four here
- and two in the other body with agreement with our sheriff. A newer city council has indicated it wants
- to help. We've heard the mayor weigh in and President Asari. We've also heard from other council members
- that have other thoughts. I take that on face value that they wanna help, that they want to do things.
- They've talked about expediting, but regardless, a willingness to get to a solution
- Wherever it is, I think doesn't end tonight on one boat. I think it continues towards what we do. And
- the last thing I'll just say, and then I'm going to shut up. We all talk a lot about collaboration.
- I spent just the last four or five months talking about collaboration. Some people like that. Some people
- doubt it. Tonight, I've heard it three million times.
- And collaboration means that you got one body offering something to another body, another body offering
- it back in a give and take there with that and a whole lot of host of other actors. The county has got
- to make that the order of the day. Friends, we are spending a lot, all our bodies are spending a long
- time in public meetings where things aren't going well. And I think it's pretty predictable if that
- collaborative tone doesn't start at the right time in the right place
- among all people. So with that I'll be quiet. Thank you. Okay. I have like notes put everywhere. And
- I think that that I've you know like my colleagues I've been thinking about what are the key
- important considerations when you're faced with a decision that feels as big as this one. And I think
- what I go to is the idea of representation. Like Councillor Packard said, you know, we represent you.
- We represent our neighbors. We represent the community. We represent the folks living and working in the jail.
- And I go to, what would Monroe County do? If this were put out there, what would the decision of the
- people be? And I think months, if not actually years of seeking out input, talking with folks about
- the problems and the concerns with our jail and our criminal justice system
- as a whole has really been a Journey and has really informed. I think you know where we are tonight
- Yeah, it's it's been a lot and it's and it's been important but the part of course of being on County
- Council is the idea of fiscal stewardship you've heard this already and I
- I think that's a mandate that we have to live up to if we're going to spend vast amounts of money. And
- no mistake, we will. That's what, either way. It should be for the things that reflect our values. It
- should be for what we want to see in our community.
- So let's be clear, our community is going to pay the price regardless. Income taxes will be the revenue
- source. And no matter which route we take, there will be more money than most of us think is reasonable,
- spent to solve these very complicated problems. It's a daunting reality. It is reality. So that brings us to,
- If we're spending the money and we want it to be reflective of values and the community values, how
- are we doing that? We're collecting evidence, we're thinking empathetically. And that's sort of my third
- consideration in all of the decisions is how do I balance evidence and empathy and really
- I know that a vote against this site is going to cost a lot of money. And that doesn't change, you know,
- that's not all that different to me from a vote for this site. The current jail,
- the conditions there, the people working there and residing there, all of that is, it weighs on my soul.
- It really does. And it must be fixed. And it must be fixed quickly. And yes, we've wasted a lot of time,
- most notably since our council vote in October, if you ask me, I think that we've squandered
- several months where we could have really been working on fixing these problems. These problems and
- the remedies for them must be done on a continual basis while we also are collaboratively working on
- the long-term solution that is actively and transparently undertaken. I think we can do that.
- I don't see it as a dichotomy of North Park or we just give up. This is a process and we're working
- through it. We have no timeline for Thompson per Councilor Iverson or other locations. And that's because
- we have not been using that collaborative
- active, transparent approach. And I am aghast and appalled, and it has not been the approach of those
- who hold the cards moving forward. Sincerely, that my vote no, with my colleagues' vote no,
- And I hope that it's a clear message that we want a solution, but North Park is not the right solution.
- Thanks. I'm the new me here still.
- I understand that I could vote yes, I understand I could vote no, and it probably wouldn't change much
- of anything here, but I want to go on the record of saying that I come from a representative world.
- So I was in the union business representing people on the job for a very long time, either with the
- union itself or in the community representing people on the job, place from workplaces, whatever it
- was they needed, I got involved in.
- If I put my representative hat on, and that's my most familiar hat, I vote no. I don't think that having
- it far away as we've heard others tonight and before and all during emails or texts or whatever that
- I've gotten messages of, I don't think it's the right service for the community. I just don't. It really
- doesn't have anything to do with the fact that it
- that North Park is there and it's on the way to Ellisville has everything to the fact that it's far
- from services for me. It's just far. People can't get, we heard testimony this evening about how that
- two blocks made such a difference in a life. Well, I don't wanna be on record as not supporting something
- that could help someone. And I think being closer to those services is very important to me. I was at
- United Way for, in some capacity, for 25 years.
- They're working with labor in United Way or working on the board with United Way. And so for me, it's
- about services. For me, it's about, and I'm like, Councillor Wilk said, we have to get what we have
- now fixed. We can't go through this whole thing of not taking care of the people who work in the current
- justice building, as well as who are inmates in that building.
- We have to figure out right now going forward and make a commitment to do so, to remedy the situation
- at the same time while we find another site immediately and go forward. So I'm all about going forward.
- Councillor Hock, I'll go to you before I go to Councilmember Henry. Hello. Good evening, everybody.
- And thank you for everyone's words in the room, my colleagues, our county government partners,
- and the public. I want to start by saying and directing my attention to the public this evening who's
- spent time and trying to understand this issue in the press and in the room. I think my vote is well
- known. I've been a no vote on this since before I became an elected official.
- And I think tonight back to October and the promise that I made to Charlotte Zitlow and working through
- and maintaining our community values to make sure we do not put this facility at North Park. And I hope
- tonight we see through what Charlotte would do. And I think that's really important to bring into this
- room again. Again, we have to bring them to this room. I want to say I don't question the sincerity
- of my colleagues in the city.
- in the county, in their views and their concerns about people in the jail today, about the ethics that
- we've been put into. No one doubts that the conditions in the current jail are serious. The people living
- there and working there deserve safety. They deserve dignity. They deserve constitutional conditions.
- No one's disputing that. But what is a dispute is the urgency and whether or not that urgency has been
- manufactured.
- has been created and forcing a decision of this body and its fiscal authority to help our community
- and our taxpayers make the best decisions that we can for the community. So I wanna focus my attention
- on our duty, on that question of fiscal oversight, which as Councilor Wills pointed out, we've been
- denied on many occasions because we never get all the information. Things are handed out piecemeal.
- a transportation plan sent out in an email right before Memorial Day weekend that's shared with council
- but not the public that may or may not be an answer. This way of doing business has to end and I think
- our oversight responsibility is the first stepping stone to getting that regardless of lawsuits. It
- has been alleged that we will lose local control but I look at the public and tell you I don't think
- you've ever quite had local control over this project.
- I certainly don't believe the county council has had local control over this project. When people talk
- about local control, I want to know whose control they're speaking of. And I do believe it is the board
- of commissioners, the longer they've sat there that are concerned that stakeholders that have contrary
- opinions cannot voice them or put them into the conversation. I've heard members of city council this
- evening going back a decade or more speak to their frustration about being a stakeholder with interest
- that has been kept outside that door.
- So, local controls interesting concept as we move forward. But here's where I land and I think on the
- fiscal questions that we have asked for weeks now about valuation assumptions and land use assumptions
- and the realities of infrastructure.
- and the operational impacts that the sheriff has raised. We've only asked for the cost of running this
- facility for over a year. And what the public forgets is that one of the reasons we voted no in October
- of 25 was it took a year to get information out of the board of commissioners and DLZ, the designers
- of the facility, of the rising costs and why they were rising. We didn't have the information to work
- with then.
- I don't believe we're going to have that information working forward in good faith, which leads me to
- my last thought. And it really does address the authors of the letter that came out this afternoon.
- No one doubts, as Councilor Deckard has pointed out, the need for collaboration in the county.
- But to me, collaboration without any compromise at all is not consensus building. It is a little more
- than just painting public comity over consciousness. And that is the part that I have a hard time with.
- So let us collaborate but not at the tail end of a decision already made, but one that we really do
- need to make together including the voices in this room that want to see that Monroe County answer to
- this problem. I don't want to go on and make this a debate club.
- I think that there has been legion of words, dumps in social media and in this room. And the community
- deserves the full debate someday as to why and how we got here. But the only thing I got to worry about
- tonight is the fact that the taxpayers of this community, especially the working people, they're going
- to be asked to pay not for one, but two phases at a project that will eventually reach 400 million with
- interest over 20 years is too much of a burden for working people in this community that cannot afford
- groceries or gas at this time.
- I'm a no vote and I continue to be a no vote. Thank you very much. I prayed about this. God was listening.
- I do believe that the choice that for the people that's in that jail now and the ones who will be there
- in the future,
- is one that we have to make with full knowledge that we save millions going someplace else, going closer
- to services. Those millions can be spent on services within that jail. I really believe that this was
- meant to go to a location closer to services. And I'm just grateful for the people who showed up to say,
- Let's get it closer to services and I am so thankful for the council colleagues here because believe
- me, this has not been an easy road. It really has not. I agree that this is not just a no to North Park.
- This is a yes to moving forward in the future and we need to make a decision on another location and
- I mean quickly. I think we've already heard
- And I appreciate what council member Deckard had to say because he recalls that when we met the offering
- on Fullerton, we had the sheriff on board for Fullerton, we had the courts on board for Fullerton, we
- had the county commissioners on board for Fullerton, we had the county council on board for Fullerton,
- the offer was made that seller, we were,
- You know, go to the seller. The seller agreed to it. It was all ready to go. At the time, under a different
- administration, the city planning said no. That does not mean they would say no now. But I've been told
- that the county commissioners had not even, unless I spoke with the mayor, the mayor said nobody had
- been to even inquire from the county.
- So that is a lack of moving forward with options. Now, Thompson's already paid for, if that would work,
- that's fine. That's close to services, et cetera. But if what we've got to do is get all of those people
- to agree to move forward, if it takes Fullerton, boy, I'm on board for that, if that's what it takes.
- And thank you everyone for being here tonight.
- So I guess it's my turn. I want to thank the public for coming back out yet again. And it looks like
- there were 33 people that showed up tonight, both via Teams and in person. And two weeks ago, we had
- a little under 25 people. You came back, and we heard you yet again.
- To the sheriff and his staff for your presentation that you continue to give, I appreciate all the things
- that you have continued to do in our current jail with what little you have to make it as humane as
- possible. He shed a light, him and his staff shed a light on what it looked like beforehand
- how it looks like now is complete night and day. And I think that should be very commend, like you should
- be commended for that because you've tried. Here's a couple of things that I heard in this entire process.
- And it's very frustrating. As council president, it has been extremely frustrating to be in conversations
- where we feel, I think,
- heard from Commissioner Thomas, board members have not said which location they would like to have it
- be. And I guess I didn't need, I didn't think that we needed to spell it out because I think it has
- been, we have been continuous to say no to North Park. You cannot spell North Park without no. So that
- being said, that's where we are.
- And I don't have any notes or anything like that that I have. I'm just kind of going off the cliff of
- my head here. So let me go ahead and spell it out for people. If you didn't already know, now you know,
- because you're hearing it from me. I think we need to look at what we already have. The public has made
- comments about what we already have. Use what we already have. And years ago, that was a Thompson site.
- And I looked at some all.
- All things considered, way back when, when studies were done, that that was supposed to be a juvenile
- justice facility. And back then, in the term of the economic crisis that we were facing then, my times
- have changed, that we needed to do something then because costs will continue to skyrocket and will
- increase. And here we are, yet again, those costs are skyrocketed and increased with building and all
- of the above.
- I think with this whole fight of SB1, where we are kind of taking a look back, and some of us have continued
- to say that SB1 is the part where we can't do certain things and we're restricted with our funding and
- our lit rates and all of those different things. I think that was the moment where we collaboratively,
- not just talking it, but just actually doing it, could have said, let's take a step back here, let's
- see what we are really doing, and let us do with what we have.
- How many of us have struggled to make ends meet and have really different upbringings, whether it's
- now or past or whatever the case is, and you look at what you have in your cupboards, you've looked
- at what you have in your bank accounts, and you see the ask, and then you see what you actually have.
- And then you go, I think we need to make do with what we have. That's all of this right now. We gotta
- make do with what we have.
- It is fiscally irresponsible with a capital I for me to continue to say, let's say yes to a $11 million
- purchase agreement when we already have things that we could be using right now. So again, if it's not known,
- I would like for us to seriously look at yet again Thompson. And if you don't want me to keep talking
- about Thompson, please make me shut up so I don't have to keep talking about it. But I tend to believe
- that our city colleagues
- will work and what we need to do with getting that PUD. By the way, it is not county council that is
- responsible for submitting that PUD request. It is the commissioners that can do that. So if anybody
- has anything to say, then that is where that goes with. I think I heard something two weeks ago or I
- almost kind of alluded that we were responsible. The hell we're not. No, we are not. We are not responsible for that.
- The last thing that I'll say, because I think we've heard enough and then we need to take our roll call
- vote here, is this has meant so much to me. This has meant I wake up literally at 5 a.m. and I go downstairs
- and I do all the things that I do in the morning before the rest of my house wakes up. I eat, sleep,
- breathe these conversations. Today is my son's birthday. I was supposed to be out of town.
- I cancel all plans.
- to be in this room with all of y'all tonight. That's why it matters to me. The last thing I'll say about
- what really matters to me is a couple of weeks ago, we had our meeting on March 12th, or May 12th, and
- then the next day we had our Sophia Travis Grant Committee meeting. And I felt real broken. And at that
- moment I was like, can I say,
- Can I dare to say yes to North Park? Is there something that I can really find in my heart? Jen,
- is there, like, take all your biases away that you might have on this site, separate those from facts,
- and try to look at and see what you can say yes to. And Heather Bland actually came in our Sophia Travis
- Grant Committee, and she talked about a story about
- what New Life does for their clients, and it was the ask that she said, and she made a comment about
- a client needing to be helped, and then she said that the client was her. That has stuck with me for
- the past two weeks, and then Misty comes in here and wants to make everybody cry that has a heart, and
- say that two-block radius can make and break a difference.
- I want my name to attach to not a building in this county that will screw people over for years to come,
- period. I am raising children in this community that will have to pay for this if they choose to live
- here or if they want to ride off into the sunset and go somewhere else. That's what we really want people
- to do. That's what we really want people to take care of. I understand the human concept. I understand
- the people that are working in that building.
- Yes, I understand. So please don't anybody at me and try to tell me I don't because I do. I take all
- things into consideration. But this is the part right now where I feel like this is a moment where we
- can either do well or we can screw it over. And I was a no back in October. I was a no back in a couple
- of weeks ago. And I'm still a no. But again, here's where I can say yes.
- I can say yes to true active collaboration. I can say yes to really getting down in the trenches.
- Like today, like after this is all, well, maybe not today, because I literally want to spend a little
- bit of time with my son. Or the next day, where we can come back in a room and say, let's figure this
- out. Mr. Richardson back there has continued to say, let's talk about this. Let's talk about this. I
- can tell you, we are trying to talk about it. Whether or not other people really want to come to the
- table and really want to talk to us about it, that's a whole other subject.
- But again, I think about, as Council Member Henry has said before, Charlotte's last conversations were,
- you all can do hard things, you just need to know how to do it and go do it. Since we are quoting songs,
- I really like to think of songs as well to get me through hard times. And a great lyricist by the name
- of Tupac said,
- I want to say one thing. For every dark night, there's a bright day. And after that, so no matter how
- hard it gets, stick your chest out, keep your head up and handle it. Colleagues, that's what we got
- to keep doing. County commissioners, that's what we have to keep doing. City colleagues, sheriff here,
- like that's what we have to keep doing. Yes, I understand the repercussions. I come from people who
- understand consequences of many things that have come up against them.
- But this right here, this is where we are. So with that being said, may we please have a roll call vote?
- Councillor Hawk. I continue to be no. I was no from the beginning.
- First, second, third, and fourth vote have many votes. It's been no. Councillor Iverson. Yes. Councillor
- Deckard. No. Councillor Henry. No. Councillor Crossley. No. Councillor Wilts. No. Councillor Feidl. No.
- fails one to six. Council colleagues as a way to make sure like we still got a couple of more things
- on the agenda. As a point of privilege, I want to be able to take a five minute recess. So I think we
- could take a five minute recess
- Let's be back at 806 promptly at 806 so we can finish up with this meeting. Thank you And we are back
- oh I'd like to note for the record that we do not have Councilmember Henry anymore and so we will proceed
- with the rest of the agenda here and I saw councilmember Decker has his hands raised and
- Madam President, based on my studying of the agenda, I believe item C should probably be now removed
- from this agenda. And if that were the will of the body, I'd take a second for that and a vote if you
- want. But I think we have to have a denial, or how does that? So we could combine. So I would second that.
- And then I would like to offer another motion after we, I guess we have to discuss one at a time. What
- is the attorney thing? Is this the right way to do it? Yeah, I would just I would just call it up. And
- if he meant to be unneeded, didn't die. Yeah. Okay, draw my motion. Oh, okay. All right. I feel like
- there are two there's actually
- There are two things. There's the item C appropriation, which we don't need and could just drop, right?
- And I'm here to request it be removed from the agenda. There you go. I think that's one thing. But I
- think we also, just to be very clear and to avoid what happened in October, we need to add an item to
- clarify our most recent vote. So we, instead of just voting
- no or against approval of the resolution, we should have a vote to deny the resolution. If you recall,
- last October we had to come back just to make ourselves clear, and I think it might be a good idea to
- get that out there. Do you agree? Sorry.
- That was something that we did at the very end of the lengthy meeting is that Ms. Turner King had us
- go back and do that. So, okay, so yeah. Council, I move to remove item C from the board of commissioners
- from today's agenda. Second. All right, we got a motion and a second. Any further debate or comment
- on this item from council? None.
- I would just say it concerns me that we don't just deny it, but. Oh, we will. Yeah, that's what we,
- I think that's what we're moving towards next. She meant deny this one and you meant deny the ordinance.
- Okay. Is there a difference? If you deny the appropriation, they can't budget it. I mean, if it's bold,
- And you haven't tabled it to a different meeting, it can't go anywhere. If it's not continued,
- it's dead. It's dead even if we take it. Because it'd have to be re-advertised. You can deny it too,
- if that's what your preference is. But if not approving it and not continuing it would kill it as well,
- because you'd have to re-advertise. My motion would mean that they would need to have to re-advertise
- it. So yeah. I think it's good. Yeah. Okay.
- So motion is to strike it. Is there any other further question or comments? Yes. Oh, would it ever come
- back or only if they submit another request and could they submit another request no matter what we
- do? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, you can submit a request for an additional appropriation any time. How many times?
- Yeah. All right. Okay.
- So seeing no other further question or comment on this, we can do a voice vote. Okay, so all those in
- favor of removing this from our agenda, signify by saying aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign. Yes,
- motion, so motion carries. Yes, Councilor Iverson. Council, I move to deny ordinance 2026-17. Second.
- All right, we got a motion and a second to deny the resolution. Is there any other further question
- or comment? Yes, council. I do want to make a quick comment. I did vote against or for the resolution,
- and I am going to make a different vote on denial. It doesn't mean that I've changed my mind,
- but it is, I think, important to say I understand the will of council and I want to move forward with
- the community.
- So this is not me changing my vote. This is simply a different topic in my mind. Any other further questions
- or comments? Seeing none, all those in favor of denying resolution? I believe that should be a roll
- call vote. May we please have a roll call vote? Thank you. You're welcome.
- Yes to deny. Yes to deny. Councillor Deckard. Yes. Councillor Crossley. Yes. Councillor Iverson. Yes.
- Councillor Feidl. Yes. Councillor Hock. Yes for denial. Yes. Motion passes unanimous. 6-0. So next up
- we jump back into our
- County business with the Health Department. Council, I move to open for discussion and possible approval
- of the Health Department's request to be exempt from the hiring freeze and be allowed to hire and fund
- 8111-9623 Crisis COAG Supports Workforce, a full-time public health nurse school liaison. Second.
- All right, we have a motion and a second. Our joined by Ms. Kelly and board member Lisa Robinson. Welcome.
- Welcome and good evening. So this request is just essentially to backfill our public health nurse and
- school liaison position. This just recently, unfortunately, became a vacant position, but it is crucial
- to supporting our school health services, our public health nursing services, and meeting those core
- service requirements for Health First Indiana. Any questions or comments from council on this item?
- Seeing none, we will move on to public comment. There's public comment on this item. You can come forward
- to the lectern here in the room or raise your hand via Teams. And seeing none, maybe please have a roll
- call vote. Councillor Deckard? Yes. Councillor Crossley? Yes. Councillor Iverson? Yes. Councillor Feidl? Yes.
- I move to approve the Health Department's request and fund 8112-9626, sexually transmitted
- disease strengthening prevention grant, a category transfer of $164.99 from the supplies category
- $15,533.77 from the services category and $12,500 from the capital category for a total appropriation
- of $28,198.76 into the personnel category.
- We got a motion and a second. What would you like to tell us about this? So this is basically just a
- housekeeping item. So we're looking at the remaining grant funds that we have and made some decisions
- that we're going to be running short on our personnel lines. So just these category transfers will help
- us to cover those personnel expenses. We do have a new grant that was just recently approved by the
- county commissioners. So that will be coming to you soon just to continue receiving this funding.
- Thank you for that. Any questions or comments? As she said, it's pretty much bookkeeping. Yes, Councillor
- Wilks. Do you anticipate then needing to move money back once you get the new funding or is this, I'm
- just looking at some of the lines here, equipment, training, travel, they're pretty large amounts. So
- do you anticipate needing to come to us to refill those accounts at some point?
- So when we receive the new executed grant, we will have funding that set aside specifically for some
- of these other areas. We do spend a lot in mileage. So a large portion of that will be going to the
- training and travel. OK, thank you. Other further questions or comments on this item?
- Seeing none, we'll move to public comment. If there is public comment on this item, you can come forward
- to the lectern in the room or raise your hand via Teams. May we please have a roll call vote? Councillor
- Deckard? Yes. Councillor Crossley? Yes. Councillor Iverson? Yes. Councillor Feidl? Yes.
- say no. Councilor Wilts. Yes. Motion passes five to one. Majority. Okay. Next up is item F. Council,
- I move to approve the health department's request to approve the creation of a new position
- and simultaneously approve the job description for the clinical assistant. Second.
- I'm sorry. We got a motion and a second. And what would you like to add to this item. So back in March
- of this year we came before you all to ask for an approval to create a job description for a clinical
- assistant position. So this clinical assistant position will help to support our nursing services and
- maternal child health services.
- So one thing that I just want to make sure that's very clear. This is more than just a front desk role.
- This is really a critical position for our daily operations and help to ensure that our services are
- functioning effectively, legally and safely for Monroe County residents.
- This role is really going to serve as the operational backbone of our clinical services. It will ensure
- that patients can access care, maintain medical records, and billing for Medicaid services.
- sorry, will support nearly every patient interaction. So from when patients are walking through the
- door, they will be checking them in, they will be checking them out, helping to oversee our inventory
- for our health supplies, and really being able to support our nurses and our maternal child
- health coordinator. So the request tonight is for the county council to consider approving us to move
- forward with hiring this position.
- I just wanna add, oh, go ahead. I just wanna add, I wanna remind council that we lost our contract with
- IU Health. And so we are in the, we are trying to recreate our infrastructure to provide services for
- the county residents. And so this is part of that movement. This person is the equivalent of someone
- who is front lines there to talk with the patients, schedule patients,
- They are an MA, so they can provide vaccines. And so they're doing a lot of different roles. But again,
- in our effort to replace that infrastructure and have people to do it and provide care. Thank you. Questions
- or comments? Yes, Councilor Iverson. I'm really happy to see this come to fruition. I think we've been
- talking about this for months.
- And so there's been a lot of hard work. Kim Schell worked on this job description. I know Molly Turner
- King worked on this job description. You all worked hard on this job description. It's gone before with.
- So I'm really excited this is coming here. And I guess for those who haven't seen the latest health
- board meeting, the health board has reviewed this and this is good to go. Yes. Excellent. Yes.
- So maybe, can you tell me how it's been working up this new, I mean, how many people have been filling
- in instead of this one create? Well, so we had, so when IU was providing all of these services, they
- had probably the equivalent, we're not sure exactly because we kept trying to get information that maybe
- for people providing services and covering for each other. And so we are literally trying to create
- those positions in order to provide the services. So right now, Lori has actually been filling in and
- trying to do her job and provide cross coverage, which is obviously not ideal. Okay, thank you.
- So if there's no other further questions or comments from council, I'll move to public comment. If there
- is public comment, you can come forward to the lectern here in the room or raise your hand via Teams.
- And seeing none, maybe please have a roll call vote. Oh, are you? Councilor Crossley? Yes. Councilor Iverson?
- Councilor Hawk, do you wanna vote? Okay. Councilor Hawk is leaving the meeting. Councilor Wilts? Yes.
- Councilor Deckard? Yes. Councilor Feidl? Yes. Motion passes five to zero. Okay. And now we're to the
- bare bones of corn.
- So next up is item G. Council, I move to approve the health department's request and fund 1159-0000
- health fund, the creation of account line 10190, clinical assistant, and simultaneously approve a category
- transfer of $41,351 from the services category to the personnel category. Second. Okay, Ms. Kelly.
- So this request is essentially we are taking some of the funding that was set aside for the IU health
- contract. It will be transferring those funds to be able to support the funding of this position moving
- forward. Okay. Any questions or comments from council on this item? Very helpful. Seeing none.
- We'll move to public comment. If there's public comment on this item, you can raise your hand via Teams
- or come forward to the lectern here in the room. Seeing none, maybe please have a roll call vote. Councilor
- Iverson? Yes. Councilor Feidl? Yes. Councilor Wilts? Yes. Councilor Decker? Yes. Councilor Crossley?
- Yes. Motion passes unanimous.
- Council, I move to approve the health department's request to amend the 2026 salary ordinance to add
- in fund 1159-0000, health fund, account line 10190, clinical assistant, Comet B, 35 hours, non-exempt
- level. Second. All right, we got a motion and a second. I think this is basically just a housekeeping
- item to ensure that we have this added to the salary ordinance. All right, any questions or comments
- from council on this item?
- Seeing none, we'll once again go back to public comment. If there's public comment on this item, you
- can come forward to the room here or raise your hand via Teams. Still seeing none. May we please have
- a roll call vote? Councillor Feidl? Yes. Councillor Wilz? Yes. Councillor Decker?
- Councillor Crossley. Yes. Councillor Iverson. Yes. Motion passes unanimous. All right. Next up is item
- I. I'd like to open for discussion the reclassification of the health services director position. Second.
- All right. We got a motion and a second.
- So recently we had the pleasure of meeting with counselor Iverson and during that time we discussed
- some different strategies for really being able to recruit the best fit for this health services director
- position. So while we have received applicants and we have been actively interviewing it's been extremely
- challenging to find a candidate with years of experience that come come in through the door at that
- entry level pay rate.
- So really the discussion that we had with Councillor Iverson was to bring this to the full council to
- discuss options for being able to reclassify this position to change the pay rate and what options that
- we would have available just to be able to widen the candidates that we could potentially bring in for
- this position.
- I would like to add, we currently are paying this position $34 an hour. For comparison, Allen County
- pays their person $39 an hour. The real issue we run into is that we are competing against IU Health,
- who they offer usually a $30,000 bonus for RNs to come on board with them. So we
- we have the only way we can be competitive really is to increase the dollar amount per hour. So our
- thinking and we discussed this at our board meeting was, you know, we may be coming to you asking for
- maybe $36 an hour, but the best way to approach that is to change the pay structure. So that's the that's.
- I think since my name is invoked in the agenda, as the liaison to this department, I do want to point
- out that there is a lot of documentation in your packet. There is a there's all sorts of information
- about what other counties do and and in particular, I if this is earlier in the meeting, I'd ask for
- this to be displayed.
- but take a look at page 92 in the packet. It's the org chart for Allen County. Can you talk a little
- bit about why you included the org chart for Allen County in the packet? Yes. So the population for
- Allen County is around 430,000 and our
- By comparison, Monroe County is about 30%. If you look at the org chart, they have 23 full-time clinical
- staff to support their population. We think that eventually we will need, as a percentage, eight full-time
- employees to support the health department in what we're doing, and that makes sense with having
- again lost our contract, so we're just using Allen County structure. If you also see there, there are
- two positions, full-time positions they have for data management and IT management, and eventually those
- positions we will be discussing more with you all, because those are gonna be critical to our maintaining
- our funding,
- with the state, so we're just trying to get the number of people we have to serve Monroe County kind
- of in line with other counties per population. And to give you, so you don't panic, we currently have,
- I would say, four full-time folks
- and eventually we'll need four additional full-time folks, which we've just asked for another one of
- those positions here. So we are just behind in trying to provide these services that are required by
- law for our county. Thank you. The other thing that's in the packet
- is a job description from Allen County. Are we to interpret that that is similar to what the director
- job description looks like? Yes and no I would say. So I think that part of it is there is some crossover
- with some of those duties but there's also a position under that like a nurse supervisor and really if you
- Again, if we're trying to compare, we're trying to replace these services through IU Health, through
- those contracted positions. They had three nursing positions that were covering vaccinations and our
- communicable disease, our lead and our health screenings. We were funding a full time school health
- liaison. They also then had a nurse supervisor. So the health services director for the health department
- had already been created
- specifically for the health department as separate from overseeing nurses and nurse duties. So some
- of those additional duties had to kind of be combined into this health services director position and
- some of these nursing positions, again, because we really are trying to be respectful of the hiring
- freeze. We know that, you know, finances are tough. So, you know, kind of trying to weigh and balance
- how can we combine
- multiple kind of positions and duties into positions instead of just asking for more positions. But
- it is also becoming very challenging for us just to be able to get services really up and going and
- to have layers of protection. So when I look at our
- organizational chart and some of the proposed changes. If you look at our environmental health services,
- you can see, when I see that, I see layers of protection because they have a director and then they
- have three different subcategories of environmental health services that have those senior positions,
- so that team lead, that supervisor, and then they have positions under that. It's very similar with
- our vital records. Those are two of our
- best functioning areas in the health department. And really that's because they have those layers of
- protection, those people who can fill in and cover gaps, cover absences, cover vacations, really have
- this wealth of knowledge, but they're also more subject matter experts. So what we're kind of running
- into is how do we balance
- fulfilling these nursing services and these maternal child health services because at some point it's
- going to be a question of do we want jack of all trades but masters of none? Or do we want subject matter
- experts who can also be able to somewhat fill in the gaps from time to time? So in an ideal scenario
- in the future,
- we would have a nurse supervisor who is that first nurse supervisor overseeing our three public health
- nurses, and then we would have the health services director. For example, we need at least two clinical
- or nursing positions who is our
- primary vaccine coordinator for our Vaccines for Children program, and we need at least one backup.
- We really just need more positions available to be able to fill those roles. Other questions or comments?
- Yes, Councillor Decker. Anytime we have something that's
- a little bit complicated and it's a bit jump ball for us. It's often like watching the movie 2001 when
- the apes were like around the monolith, because it's hard for us to, I think, construct it. And my hope
- is that we can get some sort of solution, recommendation that we can play around with. One question
- I have is, going back, Doctor, you had mentioned that we compete with IU Health just generally.
- for that nursing bonus, would you say it was 30,000? It's 20 to 30,000, I believe. Some RNs are getting,
- so we just can't compete. And we had actually someone apply to one of our positions, and they were perfect.
- And their quote was, well, I just can't do that. I mean, I can't feed my family. I can't do that.
- more money elsewhere. So I think the difficulty is you all are facing budget cuts, of course, but I
- think we are here to say we sort of have to do this. And the other thing I will remind you is that we
- have this money in the health fund currently. So we're just asking for a reclassification. We have the funds.
- thank you on all this. And that bonus is something someone like me should know, and I had no idea about
- that. If we reclassify this, does it start triggering any other movement on the chain? Any time I see
- a... Well, I guess we're saying we are going to be having discussions over the next few months to try
- to create our infrastructure. So yes, perhaps.
- This is an important start, and we worked with Peter to try to figure out what was the best solution
- for right now. Okay. Yes, Councillor Wolk. I was pointing at him. Oh, okay. I talked too much. Why don't
- you go? I guess my question is, and I don't know who or if
- there's answering happening. So feel free to just ignore me if this isn't answerable. But my concern,
- and it's been expressed before by others, is the sustainability of the health fund and what is going
- to happen. And I guess my question is, what's your thinking on that topic?
- Well, it's a catch 22, right? Because if we don't meet the criteria, we're going to lose the funding.
- And I believe it's the commissioners that accepted the funding and made that decision in the first place.
- So if we don't meet criteria, we're going to lose the funding. So I can't answer that. I don't know
- what the legislature is going to do.
- Do you in your opinion is the funding that's currently? allocated enough to sustain a Your current but
- also this vision of expansion that you have Well, I think we have to work through that I I think Monroe
- County is underserved in the realm of public health I I think we have been behind for a while I think the
- pulling out of IU from the contract has now brought that to light acutely. And I think it's
- our responsibility to work through that and figure that out. Good luck. It just, yeah, it's daunting.
- Go ahead. Can I ask a follow up to that, doctor? Sure. Do you think the IU health contract kind of masks
- some of that?
- the underfunding for a while now, this is bringing it to light. I would love any thoughts on that. I
- think that we continue to ask for data to try to figure out exactly how much money was coming in for
- their services, how much they were charging patients, their co-pays, et cetera. And then in addition
- to that, also trying to figure out
- how many exactly, how many people were providing these services and we never could sort of get answers.
- So I'm not sure how to answer that. We're trying to, that's kind of behind us now. So here's where we
- are and we're thankful that you all and Peter are willing to listen and hopefully work with us.
- All right, so next steps.
- I've heard a vision that's articulated or Laura you articulated where you've got a job an org chart
- for our health department here in Monroe County where you've got a three deep system where there's backups
- to the backup. I've heard now we've got this admin we've voted that in so you've got an admin you can
- go out and hire and we're thinking about a director here to kind of get that clinic structure going
- up and running so you don't have to do everything.
- What would be the next step, Michelle? Okay, this is our current org chart.
- This is the section here that we're talking about. Here's the health services director. And then here
- are the three public health nurses. So if I'm understanding this correctly, you're wanting the health
- services director. Then under that, to have that tiered system, you're wanting a
- Senior I'll just call it a senior public health nurse and then under that would then be these three
- positions along with the clinic Assistant that was just hired. Is that correct? Correct. Okay, so that
- means that would be a new position and we would have to Do just like what we did with the clinical assistant
- is create work together create a job description and
- that has the supervisory duties, probably other nursing duties as well, because I'm assuming the senior
- public health nurse would also be doing seeing patients, giving vaccines, that kind of thing. So we
- would have to create that job description and either come back to you and go to whip, you know,
- and say, hey, we're ready or,
- We, you guys give us the go-ahead, we get it together, and then we send it off to WIS. Is that amenable?
- Yes, and I really, I mean, that's really the structure that we need to be able to operate the
- most efficiently for the department. Have we, have you considered
- Taking one of those three positions and, I mean, basically not creating a new position and working with
- just the three, but make one the supervisor with two under and the assistant. We've tried. Well,
- go ahead. Yes, it's just not working. It's too much to just keep combining and compiling all of these
- different areas.
- Perhaps we could try to make it work and come back in another six months or so. But again, to be able
- to kind of replace some of that structure that was in place previously, we really just need that additional
- layer to help support these services.
- really challenging as well. We had the health services director previously again before we knew that
- we were going to be taking on these services. We had a really great candidate the that was going to
- come into that position. Then we learned of the changes and how that job description was going to be
- modified to absorb these additional duties. And I mean that alone was they were no longer interested. It's just
- too much, there's no increase in pay and a lot for that role to take on. And that's the very top purple.
- Correct. But that would be alleviated by creating a position under it that then supported from above
- kind of the rest of the nursing.
- So we are talking, I just want to clarify, because this has been a long night and I think I'm a little
- slow. We're talking about creating a new position and also at the same time making the health services
- director an SO. Correct. And I believe within the request, there was, they were asking to change this
- health services
- your position from a 35 hour to a 40 hour as well. Correct. Correct. Again, just trying to think of
- different strategies that we could discuss to be able to help kind of absorb some of these duties. Do
- I think that that would be needed with the supervisor? No. But again, really just trying to be respectful
- that we need to be mindful of our finances.
- And how can we balance that with also providing the best services that we can for the community? I just
- want to remind council that our next pandemic is, I hope not, but just around the corner. Things like
- Ebola, which
- was contained in the DRC and now is in Italy and now there are 220 cases in there, et cetera, et cetera.
- So we are just trying to get our ducks in a row so that we are more prepared if anyone could be prepared
- for things that we may not even be aware of at this time. There's a recent scare in our own case.
- Correct. Yes. And I really just think that that emphasizes how important it is. I really just want to
- take a moment to to just really stress how wonderful it is that we do have health department staff who
- will step up and fulfill whatever capacity that they can. And in that situation we were able to
- call upon to other employees to help us navigate and work through that situation. But that won't always
- be the case because we do have certain services that require that nursing credential to be able to provide
- those very specific services. Okay. Are there any other questions?
- Did I understand your answer to Councillor Iverson's question to be that you didn't necessarily think
- that the health services director needed 40 hours a week, but that was a strategy that you were putting
- forth? If we had a supervisor, again, if we had that three tier system, because that would help to balance
- that workload.
- just offer that current position of the health services director for 2026 when they come in at minimum
- that hourly rate is 3252 so they're up they requested 36 which would be at the close to the three year
- because the
- The pat D for three years, actually a 36 is 36 14 and out. The 35 hour, yeah. And all of those are pat
- D's across the top. The health services director is a pat D. What are the other directors? Pat D's.
- Yeah, they're all pat D's. And they're at 40? Just one, is that 40? No, no, no, I'm sorry, two.
- Two are and two are not. A little bit more challenging not being able to have that flexibility to possibly
- offer the midpoint hiring rate. So again, that's just one of the challenges that we're trying to navigate
- with recruiting. Health services director is a Pat D. The environmental health services director is a Pat D.
- and public health preparedness director is a pat D at 40 hours and the vital records director is a pat
- D at 40 hours. It's not unheard of within their department. I've talked before about those types of
- positions trying to make them more equivalent in terms of I think. And that's kind of how the preparedness position
- came into the 40 hours because there was discussion of, hey, should we make all of these 40 hours? Should
- we move to that point? That's something that we could do until perhaps we have more options. I mean,
- it's not to the exclusion of other things you've suggested, just,
- I just want to say that if you put somebody at 40 hours and you hire them on, it's more difficult to
- move them back to a 35 hour. Why would I do that? Well, that's what I'm saying. I mean, you know, if
- you're going to go ahead with that model, I mean, if you're going to add another position, she's saying
- the 40 hour would be great if we're not going to have that
- senior. Are there any other further questions or does anybody wish to make a motion regarding this?
- I think the next step is that we're going to just simply work together. Well, no, this is on the SO, isn't it?
- Yeah, right now we are talking about the reclassification of the Health Services Director position.
- And part of their request was for the reclassification as well as the hours. So if you do the
- reclassification to an SO, you also have to set an hourly rate at the same time. And you had mentioned
- one earlier in the meeting, I think, correct?
- Or was I imagining that? No, they said 36. Or to suspend our midpoint higher. Oh, that's Pandora's box,
- isn't it? Are you going to do that for every position? Is this too much on the fly?
- I mean, he gets down on paper and do a fiscal impact and all that. Until our next meeting, I don't want
- to stay. I just think that maybe. About the equity of the position. And I'm not sure.
- if I'm the only one who's thinking that. All right, council, I move to reclassify the health services
- director to an SO at $36 an hour. Second. All right, we got a motion and a second. Is there other questions
- or comments from council on this item? Yes, Michelle. Are we keeping it at 35?
- hours. Yes? That would be acceptable. Yes. Okay. So for now we'll keep it at 35. That way it at least
- gives you a jumping off. That's good with me. Okay. So not my decision. We'll work on reclassifying
- and come back. Is that right here? Okay.
- Okay, so no other further questions or comments. Can we recap what it is we're doing here, please? Yes.
- So essentially, we are moving to reclassify this as a SO position. And we're going to keep it. Tell
- me the hourly rate again. 36. 36? For right now, we are not going to do anything with the hours. We're
- going to keep it at 35. I just didn't get the hours. I should have just asked that. Thank you.
- So we're there. All right.
- Who seconded? I'm sorry. Council member. Thank you. Okay. Um, I'll see if there's any public comment.
- There's public item. Please come forward to the lectern here in the room or raise your hand via teams.
- Sauntering up. Evening council. Sarah writer banter community Monroe County health officer.
- I encourage you to support this. I went to a state symposium now two weeks ago. And when I went to all
- of the tables of all of the counties in our state and asked how to get public health nurses, they just
- looked at me and laughed.
- It is next to impossible, which is why we need to be paying any nurse $36 an hour. Indeed, across the
- state, IU and other hospitals are offering $30,000 sign-on bonuses and then are paying $36 to $38 an hour.
- I then went looking to see what other health services are recruiting nurses and at what pay scale, and
- it's above that. So for us to be at all competitive, for us to be able to serve the people of Monroe
- County with the nursing care that our public health nurses have provided for the last 60 years,
- in conjunction with the hospital, we need to be paying them what the going rate is. I wish it were otherwise.
- I wish that everyone simply wanted to serve the community and that it didn't make a difference, but
- we also know how expensive it is and how much more it becomes expensive to support a family in this
- community or anywhere in the state. Thank you.
- Okay, any other questions or sorry, any other public comment? And seeing none, Michelle, maybe please
- have a roll call vote. This is a vote to reclassify the Health Services Director position as an SO at
- a $36 an hour rate.
- Councillor Wilz. Yes. Councillor Deckard. Yes. Councillor Crossley. Yes. Councillor Iverson. Yes. Councillor
- Feidl. Yes. Motion passes unanimous. Find someone good. Thank you. Thank you for sticking through a
- long meeting. Have a good night. You too.
- All right, next up we are almost done. So we are going to, it's that time of year again, yay, where
- we have to look at the president's letter. And so I'm gonna look to Michelle as she gladly will display
- it on screen.
- So we were a little delayed in getting this out. My apologies. And thanks for staff and the patients
- with me. I hope everybody had a chance and an opportunity to take a look at the letter. Again, this
- was just really reiterating the fact that SB1, the sequel trilogy, still loom in our budgets.
- So this time around, we are asking for folks to budget on a flat. Budget time this time around, the
- other biggest thing that we have in this letter is the fact that we are asking for people to put in,
- I know we would have that factored in as people would do that, that doesn't necessarily mean that
- There won't be a COLA, however, I think we need to get through all of our budget items first to kind
- of take a look at that. With longevity, I know that was a big controversial thing that happened towards
- the end of our budget season last time around, but I've asked Councilor Iverson and the Long-Term Finance
- Committee team to take a look at that, and I believe that is something that will happen in the...
- Do a meeting, why am I going back to February? So we are not going back. So that is another thing as
- well. And overall, I think the sentiment is, much like we did last year, is help us like departments
- again. We had a lot of departments that kind of did a lot of work on the fly to really try to continue
- with that same kind of spirit.
- as we try to keep the county moving forward as we still deal with our budget concerns going. That been
- budget cycle. Did I miss anything Michelle? The only thing that I want to say is with regards to the
- full time self insurance we are
- or asking for the departments to appropriate high. We're going with 18,000 per position. Right now the
- current amount is 16,005. I've been speaking with the Commissioner's Administrator as well as the Employee
- Services Department. And we will get a good idea come June on
- how that amount that we settled for last year, because we really kicked it up last year to 16-5, and
- how that amount is working with the budget for 2026. So June will give us at least a half of a year
- to see how the claims have been coming in and what's been going out. Like the commissioner's administrator
- believes that not stay at 18,
- But they really don't want to guess anything until they get that mid-year review. So once we get that
- done, we'll come back before the end of the budgets. But for right now, we're just going to have everybody
- do it at the 18th. The only other thing I want to say is
- Crossley did say that she wanted, you know, that the budgets are to be flat. Also, what we put in here
- is for 2026, departments, well, council moved the supplies as well as travel and training into the edit
- fund. So to get a true
- look at what the budget is going to cost, we would like those amounts put back into your original request
- so that we can see what needs to be moved, you know, at all, that kind of thing. So we're asking everyone
- that has an edit fund budget to put those amounts back into their original requested budget.
- And in that way, that's gonna give you a good estimate on this is what the budget would look like without
- the edit funding. So. So earlier tonight, we heard people invoke gas prices and grocery prices. Could
- you talk a little bit about your thinking around COLA? Well, you all have a long-term finance committee
- meeting that is coming up.
- I know last year the conversation was, we gave a COLA, let's look at how other things kind of play out
- with this year, and that's the same sentiment. From my understanding, Mr. Garitas is supposed to give
- you all like a review, like a pre-budget review, and so I was thinking along with longevity, if that's
- something that could be discussed in terms of COLA increase,
- that could be brought up and then be brought to the council as we consider that for budget cycle. Because
- last year I know the COLA, to give a COLA barely passed. And so with this year and a lot of prices going
- up and up and people really wanna be able to sustain and retain our employees as much as possible.
- That's a way for us to kind of look at all things. I hope nobody will look at this and go, oh, she's
- talking about getting rid of people. No, I'm not, no, I'm not, no, I'm not. I'm just saying what we
- talked about last year is also something that we should look at this year for 2027. So as we are prepping
- that in June and whatnot, we can have those conversations now instead of September, October, when we
- get a room full of people again, we talk about something.
- It's better to start proceeding and letting people know ahead of time what our thoughts are. We said
- we would do that a lot earlier this year. Obviously lots of other things have taken hold of Council's
- attention so far. And so now as we kind of move all over the place, that's the idea there. I think that's
- helpful. Thank you.
- still working on trying to get you a fiscal impact of what a no cola for next year would look like,
- but it also includes the step increases where everybody's going to be at come next year based on a snapshot.
- You know, so I do know that we've got a couple people that are retiring, you know, that kind of thing.
- So, but like I said, it'll be based on a snapshot of a particular period of time.
- and I will get you, you know, what I can to show what a no cola with the step increases, because I know
- that one council member had mentioned maybe not even allowing people to have their step increases.
- So we'll, you know, that kind of thing, which might end would be a nightmare. That is not in the president's
- letter. No, but I want to, you know, but the president's letter does say, you know, budget,
- with no COLA, include all the step increases and this kind of thing. But I wanted to get you that information
- and it will be forthcoming hopefully before the long-term finance so that we can review it at that time.
- Look at us working together. And then as well as the longevity. I'm working on a reduction kind of thing.
- That's right. Either full turkey or over the years. What that fiscal impact would look like.
- Good, okay. And in plenty of time for budget season, right? We don't want to leave that to the last
- second. That's too emotional. And then the other thing that we, what I thought, it sounded like the
- feedback that I got from last budget cycle was the fact that we met with, as liaisons with departments
- a lot earlier to kind of explain things. I hope that went okay. Right again this year.
- And, you know, so liaisons can help people out in case there is any other things that we need to talk
- about. But again, I thought that was, I thought it went fine. I think we could do it again. And this
- is my last president letter, because I ain't doing president. Yay. Happy. You are. Yes, Ms. Gregory.
- Just a quick comment that my team and I will continue to update our self insurance fund analysis. And
- that kind of shows the trend as well because we do know like more people meet their deductible in the
- second half of the year is more heavy as far as expenses for the county. It's okay. It's true.
- Thank you. All those last minute surgeries. All right.
- There is no other further questions that are needed, so Michelle will kind of get together and that'll
- go out. And those departments are working through, because it will be June in about another week. And
- before you know it, we'll be sitting here for long hours yet again. Yeah. Thanks for doing the letter.
- Thanks for doing the letter. You're welcome. My pleasure.
- staff that was kind of kicking me for it. So I appreciate that. Okay. Thank you. All right. Now is the
- moment we've all been waiting for is Council liaison updates and comments. I know last meeting and because
- Councillor Henry is not here, we had to give up some of his duties. And so I think Councillor Frido,
- you might have been thinking about it.
- I probably should hold off on that another time. I don't know that somebody's reported when they meet.
- Yeah. I would need to know that before I decide. We'll just hold off and we'll wait on that. Thank you.
- But I'm going to look down to the left over here and see if we have any final liaison comments as before
- we adjourn. I do not come with my color-coded time. First time, I think, in probably three or four months.
- And so I'll just say jail, jail, jail. Yeah.
- I just have a comment that I just have been reflecting on in the in the kind of rest of this meeting
- which is you know earlier mission Madeira I think it was said that this this
- decision and vote that we made today really is taken in the context of how we wish to be remembered.
- And I've been thinking on that and I hope that we and this time are remembered as people who knew the
- importance of deliberation
- and intentional system change. I hope that we're seen as people who have thought outside of the typical
- parameters of how we do things because that's the opportunity that we have right now. And in that vein,
- I would really like to call on the commissioners to seize the day and perhaps call a meeting where we
- or at least some of us could participate with them and the mayor and the common council and the sheriff to really
- the possibilities and not not the past but the future and do it this week I mean let's let's let's just
- look toward what we can do
- be really quick I want to give a shout out to a my council colleagues I was gone for work part of some
- of what a lot of us do is we have jobs that are our day jobs and then we have this is the other job
- and I was gone with students to Greece for
- part of my duties, an assigned duty about a year. And I appreciate all my council colleagues who pitched
- in and did their work in a meeting where you don't wanna see empty chairs. They saw one next to them.
- And I know that we're gonna have plenty more meetings where we do lots of things. I did wanna mention
- an effort, a pamphlet here that I've kind of been looking at the last month or so.
- And this pamphlet may seem a little bit odd, but it actually is appropriate for our time because it's
- a pamphlet about the Revolutionary War Patriots of Monroe County. And as a person that descended from
- one of them, so many people have had to hear that I come from a nine-generation family that they're
- probably gagged when they hear it. But as a person that comes from one of those families,
- One of the things that sometimes when you grow up in a family like that, where things were not written,
- people were poor and couldn't pass it down, is you never knew that. But we have these individual, I
- didn't know until I was in my 20s, that there wasn't even a remote connection. And some great folks,
- including Barbara Hawkins, there's some sponsors that assisted with it. They put together a pamphlet
- that really memorialized some of these souls
- that are buried here in the community, including not only men, but women that are remembered. And so
- you can get these at the courthouse, the history center, it's the Revolutionary War, Patriots of Mineral
- County, you can visit many of these gravesites. But when I think about people doing the hard and the
- impossible, I look at some of the conditions that they overcame when things did not look very
- Normal at all and it's kind of a reminder that all throughout our time You just we got to go back to
- work and I know there's probably a lot of sore everything But we got to do it. So anyway, I'll stop
- talking and thank you Nothing I need to say is I heard there's a birthday tonight and I think we should
- get going. Oh, yeah Yes
- Ms. Turner-King has a birthday, and she's not here, but yes. Oh, I wasn't talking about that one. No.
- I'm talking about that one. My poor team. So that being said, I don't think I have anything else to
- add. I think Councillor Wilts was very, very spot on in what she said, and I think that work starts
- now. I think, you know, perhaps, I don't know if that's something that we could do together
- with commissioners. I think that's the moment that we are in.
- And it's been asked for and I think that's, vote tonight should not mean that we just sit here and we
- stop. I think we need to continue to keep, we've heard the sheriff say all the things. I think we all
- are in agreement that we do need to do something. Our community is asking us to do something. There's
- just a site that just didn't work tonight. So that being said, I appreciate everybody
- and all the work that we've done. Oh, one other thing I would like to say, one other thing is I think
- we have some conflicts with June 9th. June 9th is the second Tuesday that we have. And so Councilor
- Iverson is out and I actually will be out as well.
- Oh, yes, yeah. And so last year, I remember I was saying that I think we should try to put in a recess
- for that reason, just in case we have people that need to do things. And so I am going to say that we
- are going to cancel June 9th. So did I have it down correct that we're supposed to do this if he had
- traveled that night?
- Well, we could bump that to the 23rd. Yeah. Especially because we are really, really early with Sophia
- Travis. Shout out to staff for making that work and easy. And we have a meeting this upcoming Friday.
- OK, so if you cancel the meeting, I would like to have that in a motion just so that we
- Council, I move to cancel the June 9th County Council meeting. Second. Okay, we got a motion and a second.
- Does anybody just want to sit here and have a meeting without the President and the Pro-10?
- You can do it. All right, so all those in favor of canceling the June 9th meeting signify by saying
- aye. Aye. All those opposed, same sign. Okay, June 9th is officially canceled. Yes, Councilor Feidl.
- I'm really neglected to mention that I enjoyed the Memorial Day service this week, yesterday, right?
- It hadn't been that long ago. So I was at the Rose Hill Cemetery with others, Councillor Crossley and
- Councillor Decker, and then proceeded to go to the cemetery also, and it was just
- what an expansive event that was. I wasn't expecting quite to be a big deal, but it turned out to be
- quite the production and the speaker was just fantastic. So I think there was just a lot of heartfelt
- messages there and appreciation for our veterans and my granddaughter serves in the Air Force now. So
- I have two people close to my heart that I just wanted to say how much I appreciated doing part of that.
- And that's Stephen and Andrew.
- So thank you for putting that on and being able to get out and show support. Made the ultimate sacrifice.
- All right, so with that being said, we are adjourned. Happy birthday, Mason.