WEBVTT

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- all right ladies and gentlemen thank you for joining us today this is the county council special work

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- session agenda uh it is friday august 29th 2025 uh we do have a quorum of council so i'm going to call

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- this meeting to order uh with us today we have uh david henry council member marty council member david

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- henry council member marty hawke council member liz fidel council member trent dekert

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- Councilmember Kate Wilts is walking in and Councilmember Jen Crossley is finding parking, so she'll

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- be with us momentarily, but she asked that we start the meeting. This meeting is called to order. You

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- can find today's agenda as well as everything Council is going to be looking at on the website for Monroe

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- County under the calendar

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- session today. So for those of you who are joining us virtually or here in the NatU Hill Room,

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- you can find everything that we're going to be looking at online. So thank you for that transparency. Next,

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- we'll go to adoption of the agenda. Are there any additions or changes to today's agenda? Go ahead, yeah.

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- Mr. President, I have an amendment for the agenda today. I'd like to move up the council comment to

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- section two and then have everything proceed after.

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- All right, we have a motion on the floor. Is there a second? Yeah. All right, we have a motion to move

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- council comment to item number, with the new item number two. Any comments about this?

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- Try item two, above the recap, yeah. The adoption of the agenda, yeah. New three? New three, there we go.

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- Correct, yeah, it would be the new number three. Gotcha. The rest of them would change as well then.

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- And I would just like to say that that would, actually that's fine. Is there any other comments? All right.

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- There was a second, yeah. All those in favor? Aye.

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- All right, all those opposed? All right, any other changes to today's agenda? I would also add another

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- section for a presentation of fiscal information, which that would happen directly after the discussion

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- of the jail project. Second. Okay, any questions? Tell me the name of that new line again.

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- That would be right after item number four, so the new number five. And that would be a discussion on

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- justice center funding. Thank you. All right. Any more conversation? All those in favor, please say aye.

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- Aye. All those opposed? The ayes have it. All right. We are going to move on to the new number three now,

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- which is council comments.

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- Council members, who would like, oh, we have Jennifer Crossley in the room, which means I get to stop talking.

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- Oh, all right, I got it. All right, we are on council comments. So we had moved that up to the new number

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- three. So council members, do you have anything to say to kick off today's exciting conversation about

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- the Justice Center?

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- I think Madam President is taking over the meeting now. Thank you. Thank you everybody for being here.

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- Thanks for amending the agenda. I'd like to start with just a little bit of time at the front end for

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- us to take stock of where we are at this meeting after it's been about six months since we've had a

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- conversation publicly about this project.

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- get council feedback about the ramifications of Senate Bill 1 and its adoption as SCA 1 and what that's

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- meant for the county. We started off this project, of course, with the previous council and some decisions

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- leading up to the election in 2024. Elections happen.

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- legislation changes, and we're facing a very different fiscal environment. And I think before we really

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- get into the marrow of the presentation today, I would be interested in fellow councilors' comments

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- about the impact of that bill on how we're approaching our conversation today. But it's, I think,

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- a reasonable place to start. And I apologize for my tardiness, but does anybody else have any comments?

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- Councilor Decker?

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- I didn't come prepared to offer these comments, but I will just say that anyone watching our budget

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- sessions can already see the impact of what's happening. I hope that folks in Indianapolis are watching

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- this closely because I can't get through a day without one of our local government units that are not

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- necessarily county contacting me and saying,

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- Let me paraphrase. I feel like the state has slit our throat and wants us to go walking around providing

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- services. Yeah, that's what happened. Now, here's the deal. As I look at an audience that includes public

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- servants, it includes court reporters, it includes administrators, it includes jailers, it includes

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- Law enforcement personnel includes a lot of people, right? I'm not getting them all. They still have

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- to go about doing their job. And so I remain committed that we in local government do everything we

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- absolutely can to keep operations going because sometime tonight at 10 o'clock someone will call for

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- an ambulance and they won't want to hear

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- Well, SEA, one, two, three, or senator, or minority leader, majority, whatever, they don't care about

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- any of that. They want their service. And so on this project, I think we've had an eventful week where

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- we see a lot more of that need in that building. And so that's kind of where I fall. And I am probably

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- eternally optimistic and probably fall asleep for that. But my dad taught me you got to do the work

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- that you have, then you rest.

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- Ironically, I never seem to get to the rest. We don't have time for our rest, and I think that we need

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- all the help we can get. Thank you. Anybody else want to make comment before we proceed? I want to before

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- we're through. Go ahead, go down the aisle. All right, so Council Hawk, and then I'll go, and then we

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- got to move on.

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- Right, I for one am grateful that the state listened to the people of this great county and the state

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- and said, look, we hear you. We think that there are some need to make sure that we change the way taxes

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- are going to be collected and opposed, whether it's going to be in property tax or income tax. And therefore

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- was the reason for the change

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- in how much we could use for a debt because they said we could only use 25 percent of the fund for this

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- income fund for the total for debt and now that could change when we get into 2028 because this council

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- will be more in control of the entire income tax money coming into the county

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- but right now we are tied at 25%. Some people are saying that sounds like plenty. And when we started out,

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- remember the first numbers we got, I think it said like 70 million and then we thought that was a lot

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- and it was like, well, no, it's gonna be another 70 million to co-locate. And now we've gone from 70

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- plus 70 now up to, I mean, who knows where we are now because it keeps changing with us. However,

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- We did ask for information from our attorney as to how much that 25% would allow us to bond and would

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- he be allowed to present that so that would be a part of my presentation for the public to see and hear.

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- So from my understanding that is what council just amended to add to the agenda before

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- I walked in, so it sounds like that is going to happen. Right. And I want to say further that this is

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- not my first rodeo. We tried to do a jail, the county did, out on the Thompson property. And everybody,

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- the courts, the sheriff, everybody was, yay, we're doing it. And it fell apart because people just kept

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- adding on to the cost, adding on to what their wish list was until the price was out of control.

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- And at the same time, we had businesses downtown saying, do not move out of downtown. So that's where we are.

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- Just for those people who weren't around for all of that discussion, that's where we are now.

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- And so now they're saying, oh, let's take this

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- whole problem over toward Ellsville. I've already said that's not where Ellsville and my district want

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- it and so I won't be supporting this simply because of the location but if we change the location my

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- vote might change. Councilor Everson. Thank you I'm much more interested in hearing DLZ speak today

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- so I'm going to be very very brief.

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- Number one, I don't think we can let today go by without acknowledging that the mold crisis in the existing

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- justice complex has heightened the urgency for us to do something. We know that the Sheriff's Office

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- took appropriate measures to keep the inmates safe. And we know that our other colleagues in the Justice

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- Building have been in a lot of conversations

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- with us about the health effects of working in that building. That plays directly in today's conversation

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- in the different talks that we've been having. The second thing that we need to talk about is substance

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- use disorder treatment and mental health treatment. We need to keep that the forefront of these

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- conversations. I'm not gonna belabor that because I could feel like I could give a multi-hour lecture on this.

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- And then the last thing that I wanna talk about is

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- that Council Member Hawke is absolutely correct. These projects are known for just growing and growing

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- and ballooning and ballooning. We need to keep our eyes on operational costs. I talked about this before,

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- in particular staffing. If we're going to build a bigger building, we're going to have to have more

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- people working in there and we need to keep our eyes on that as the fiscal body. Thank you Madam President.

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- And the only thing I'll add to that too is the fact that I'm annoyed at the fact that we're sitting

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- here in 2025 talking about something that was brought forth to the county as a whole nearly 18 years ago.

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- I'm annoyed that previous folks that were in positions allowed this to continue to go further and allow

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- these prices to continue to go up because nothing has changed except for the prices. However,

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- Given the annoyance that I have with this, we got to do something. And as Councilor Iverson said,

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- and as we learned last week from listening to those that work in the justice building, we need to have

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- a plan and we have to have some. Because we are one catastrophic move from us having to deal with this

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- in an immediate instance. We've already seen, as Councilor Iverson suggests, or talked about the sheriff

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- and his staff,

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- making moves and changing things around day in and day out we all do not have to be in that building

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- but folks that are in the back have to be in that building and we have to come up with the plan and

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- we need to do so and we need to stop talking about it and we need to do it. That being said we also

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- need to make sure that we're doing things within our means.

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- we point blank period. That's the tweet, that's the post, that's all of it. So that's what I wanna say

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- with that. It's annoying that we are sitting here still talking about things. I've been on council now

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- for four years and I feel like I've been in the same spot that we've been in since I stepped in on the

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- scene since December of 2021. So although this is not my first rodeo either, I want this to be my last

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- so we can stop talking about it and get to doing things. And so we can move forward.

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- So that being said, next up we'll go to the recap from DOZ and WGS. So I'd like to invite those folks

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- to come to the microphone and go forward. Good morning. Morning. I can still technically say that.

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- I have about 15 minutes.

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- So if I fail to mention this towards the end of the meeting, I hope everybody has a very nice three-day

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- holiday weekend coming up. I know I'm looking forward to it. So before you, you will see two different

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- documents. The one that looks like this, a NAFTA 11, this is our full schematic design report.

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- This is not this 100 and some odd page document. This is not what I'm presenting today. This is a summary

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- of the schematic design report.

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- So starting off, Council Member Henry, I think it was you that mentioned like six months ago was kind

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- of when we had our last meeting in a similar format. So back in February, we presented the pre-design

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- phase where we went through the site layout and floor plans, budgets, timelines, those types of things.

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- A lot of the information that you're going to see here today, it's the same content.

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- but you'll see much more detail and refinement. And that's just the natural progression of the design process.

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- So as a good segue then, if you turn the page and you look at this, this isn't just an explanation of

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- kind of how a project moves through from conception all the way through to completion. So we've had

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- our kickoff meeting.

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- And as I just mentioned, back in February, we completed our pre-design phase. That formally put us into

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- the schematic design phase, which is the first of the three primary design phases of a project.

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- So we're here today to present the schematic design package. After that will come design development.

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- And then the final design phase is the construction document phase. Each design phase builds upon the other.

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- And the final construction document phase, think of it like blueprints. That's where you see, you know,

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- the hard dimensions and details, and that's what contractors will ultimately bid from, which is a segue

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- to the next box, which is the bidding and award phase. And that's really where the DLZ Wedelgarmong

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- Smoot team, we kind of switch seats and Wedelgarmong Smoot will then kind of move into the driver's

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- seat and DLZ will support them.

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- similarly for the construction administration phase, and then transition and occupancy. One thing I

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- want to point out is down here at the bottom, you'll see stakeholder outreach. So there have been multiple,

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- multiple meetings with the individual stakeholders, the department heads, their representatives,

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- the transition team, in developing what we're presenting here today. I can't

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- give this presentation without giving them multiple thanks. They're always very accommodating and very

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- understanding. And some of the conversations we've had, especially when we run some preliminary budget

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- numbers and we realize we need to cut some scope to cut the cost, they're understanding that those are

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- tough conversations to have, but we've had those conversations and they've participated throughout the

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- whole process. So if you turn the page,

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- Then just an image over here of the actual schematic design report. And I've highlighted the information

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- that's in this report. Now, the information that's contained here, this was the information that was

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- provided to Weligar Mong Smut back, I think, end of July, beginning of August, that they began their

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- cost estimating process. But the items that are highlighted with the double asterisks, those are the items

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- that you're gonna see in more detail in this presentation. So first is the executive summary.

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- So in this executive summary, you will see what we refer to as base bid, and you'll see some items,

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- and I'll explain this, that we refer to as alternate bid. For the base bid scope of work,

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- the total gross square footage is approximately 237,161 gross square feet. Now this is for the sheriff's

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- office in jail and the justice center. And then underneath of that, you'll see an alternate gross square

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- footage summary. And what that is is we have four day rooms in particular that we're proposing just

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- to shell out as part of the base bid, similar to what some of you have seen at Hamilton County.

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- You can always come in on bid day if bids are received favorably, and then you can elect to finish out

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- those additional day rooms for the additional beds, or you can do it at any time in the future,

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- and we'll design it such that you can get modular cells in those day rooms to do that if that's the case.

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- But the rated bed summary for the general population is a total of 296 beds. Of that 296 beds,

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- There's a total of 48 that are dedicated within the general population housing area dedicated to mental

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- health. And that's really more of a step down unit. And I'll explain that and compare and contrast that

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- in just a moment. Underneath of that, you see the medical and mental health. And you can see the breakdown

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- between the male and female. Now this is more of our acute medical mental health area. And there's a

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- total of 60 beds. So those are in addition to the 48 step down unit

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- as far as in the general population. In holding, which is our, we call it the intake area, there's a

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- total of 20 rated beds. And inmate workers, the dormitory setting for both male and female adds an additional

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- 28 beds. If you add those numbers together, there's 404 beds in the base bed. Then below that,

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- this is the alternate bed that I was referring to where we would, you know, shell the space,

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- similar to Hamilton County,

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- we've done this on multiple projects as well where four additional day rooms could be built out either

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- on bid day if bids are received favorably or at any point in the future that adds a total of 96 additional

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- beds for the 500 rated bed facility. Also just want to make sure I think this is understood but just

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- to make sure

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- The base bid includes the sheriff's office and jail, the 404 rated beds, the justice center,

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- which is comprised of the courts, probation, community corrections, clerk, prosecutor, which includes

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- child support and criminal, public defender, and then of course, court security. And then I've already

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- mentioned the ultimate bid items. So next,

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- is a site layout plan. Now, I'm going to take a break here for just a moment and kind of refresh everybody

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- from our February meeting where we presented the pre-design phase. If you were to compare and contrast

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- the site layout plan and kind of the building concept, if you recall, the pre-design phase,

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- it kind of included kind of a bent, kind of a boomerang-shaped configuration. And when we had

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- that presentation, there were comments

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- and some concern regarding elevators and if you recall somebody behind my back I don't know who it was

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- but in February commented and said elevators from hell and I know the history of the elevators in the

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- Justice Center. There was also some concern regarding a tunnel and transporting inmates from the jail

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- over to the courts area. So after that February meeting

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- I went home and started thinking and several of us did and we went back into the office and we pulled

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- two or three people that had had no prior experience with this Monroe County project just to get a fresh

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- perspective. So from that we generated three what we kind of coined as just taking another look. So

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- we had three alternative kind of concepts that we then presented to the commissioners

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- Also, each of the department heads just kind of reimagined how this building might be put together.

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- From that meeting, there was a clear winner between those three. So that is the scheme that we further

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- developed, which is what you're going to see here today. So from February, in listening to some of the

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- comments from that meeting, we took a step back, reimagined how the building might come together to

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- address those comments and concerns to what you're gonna see here today.

00:22:42.978 --> 00:22:49.806
- So with me today is Nick Francesconi. He's our site LA civil guy. He's responsible for a lot of the

00:22:49.806 --> 00:22:56.156
- site graphics. So I'm gonna let him talk about that here in just a moment. But first of all,

00:22:56.156 --> 00:23:03.257
- in the bottom right hand or bottom left hand corner, this is just an aerial view of the site, the North

00:23:03.257 --> 00:23:10.494
- Park site. North is facing up and you can see it's sort of at the intersection of I-69 and State Road 46.

00:23:14.210 --> 00:23:20.317
- Thanks, Scott, for the introduction. Thank you for the opportunity to present this to you today.

00:23:20.317 --> 00:23:26.675
- I guess we'll just start here at the main entrance where we'll have a new public road as part of the

00:23:26.675 --> 00:23:33.034
- overall project development that will give us access immediately down into our visitor parking area.

00:23:33.034 --> 00:23:39.645
- One thing I should note is at that new public road, we'll have monument sign there to identify the site,

00:23:39.645 --> 00:23:43.422
- probably the sheriff, other information about the building.

00:23:43.906 --> 00:23:55.878
- We'll probably likely have another monument sign at the intersection of 46 and Hunter Valley Road. Sorry,

00:23:55.878 --> 00:24:04.574
- it's more of a wayfinding piece. Do I have to scoot it to me? Okay, perfect.

00:24:04.898 --> 00:24:11.578
- Almost immediately after turning onto that public road, you'll have the opportunity to turn down onto

00:24:11.578 --> 00:24:18.717
- one of the two access points into the visitor parking lot. If you proceed further south on that public road,

00:24:18.717 --> 00:24:25.070
- you'll have another opportunity to access that public parking lot, visitor parking specifically.

00:24:25.070 --> 00:24:31.358
- It's more of a loop drive, and that gives you the opportunity to include a bus stop down there,

00:24:31.358 --> 00:24:34.174
- which will serve primarily inmate release.

00:24:34.402 --> 00:24:42.111
- And then if you move further along towards the front of the building, there's the opportunity there

00:24:42.111 --> 00:24:50.129
- for drop off and loading for visitors to the site. The visitor parking lot is approximately 180 parking

00:24:50.129 --> 00:24:58.378
- spaces with the opportunity for additional future parking if needed. The entry plaza, sort of a monumental

00:24:58.378 --> 00:25:03.774
- plaza there in the front of the building will have security bollards,

00:25:04.930 --> 00:25:14.350
- flag poles, some different paving material to identify that main entrance and different seating opportunities

00:25:14.350 --> 00:25:23.427
- there. A second point of entry into the site will be directly off of Hunter Valley Road, providing access

00:25:23.427 --> 00:25:32.161
- to the justice staff parking. That will be a secured access point of entry with barrier arms for only

00:25:32.161 --> 00:25:34.302
- personnel to enter that.

00:25:35.906 --> 00:25:44.456
- drive. That justice parking has 260 parking spaces, 60 of those will be secured in fencing.

00:25:44.456 --> 00:25:54.306
- Another aspect of that secured parking is this opaque precast concrete wall that will screen that parking

00:25:54.306 --> 00:26:00.254
- area from Hunter Valley Road. If you continue moving along that

00:26:01.474 --> 00:26:08.754
- back access drive, there's opportunity there for service utility area, and then maintenance parking.

00:26:08.754 --> 00:26:16.250
- I think there's 10 spaces there for maintenance staff. Around the back of the building, if you continue

00:26:16.250 --> 00:26:23.818
- along that access drive, will allow the access to the justice center, I'm sorry, to the sheriff's office

00:26:23.818 --> 00:26:27.998
- and to the jail, also providing access to the Sally port.

00:26:29.986 --> 00:26:43.764
- We go back a slide, please. Thank you. There are 200 spaces in that secured Sheriff's Office and jail

00:26:43.764 --> 00:26:58.622
- parking lot. I think about 10 to 12 of those will be designated for impound vehicles. Or equipment. As a bus.

00:26:58.978 --> 00:27:07.526
- continues through the Sallyport. They'll have the opportunity to exit directly back onto that main public

00:27:07.526 --> 00:27:15.752
- road there and exit. The site. Just the South Sallyport shuttle in May shuttle. Yeah, so through that

00:27:15.752 --> 00:27:23.977
- Sheriff's Office Park Angel 99% of the time it's going to be patrol cars, you know going in know with

00:27:23.977 --> 00:27:26.558
- the arresting officer and they.

00:27:26.658 --> 00:27:34.029
- at Reste. We always size our vehicle Sally ports in the event that you have to do an evacuation or say

00:27:34.029 --> 00:27:41.185
- you have a DOC bus or something like that coming in. We size our vehicle Sally ports to accommodate

00:27:41.185 --> 00:27:48.556
- a bus in length. One other important aspect of the site is that there's probably about 50 feet of fall

00:27:48.556 --> 00:27:55.998
- from west to east. And so as you'll see on the site plan, there are some retaining walls we're thinking

00:27:56.098 --> 00:28:07.294
- we'll try to use to reduce costs, just in situ limestone walls, kind of create a flat area for the building

00:28:07.294 --> 00:28:17.246
- and all the site amenities. We have storm basins identified in a few locations around the site.

00:28:24.930 --> 00:28:31.403
- If there's anything else. Yeah. So just a couple other things to point out is this area back here that's

00:28:31.403 --> 00:28:37.692
- currently labeled as evacuation yard. That's also our future expansion. Hopefully not in my lifetime.

00:28:37.692 --> 00:28:44.350
- If you ever had to add on and add beds to this facility, we are preserving that area for a future addition.

00:28:44.450 --> 00:28:51.263
- Also as part of the February 27th pre-design presentation, one of the comments that we heard, and Kate,

00:28:51.263 --> 00:28:57.421
- I'm looking at you, and we also heard from some of the public is revolved around outdoor rec.

00:28:57.421 --> 00:29:04.169
- So what we have done in consultation with the transition team within the evacuation yard, there is the

00:29:04.169 --> 00:29:10.654
- opportunity for an outdoor rec area operationally if the sheriff's office decides to utilize that.

00:29:10.914 --> 00:29:16.969
- But there is that opportunity there, and we have made those provisions. The second thing I wanted to

00:29:16.969 --> 00:29:23.264
- point out briefly is, if you recall from February, and I think I mentioned it before, when I was talking

00:29:23.264 --> 00:29:29.259
- about the alternate bid items, one of the alternate bid items is an inmate release resource center.

00:29:29.259 --> 00:29:35.853
- And some of you that have been to Franklin County and over in Columbus, Ohio, you saw what we're envisioning.

00:29:35.853 --> 00:29:39.870
- As an alternate bid, that's where it would potentially be located.

00:29:40.098 --> 00:29:47.922
- And the reason that we're locating it right there will make more sense to you when I talk about the

00:29:47.922 --> 00:29:55.746
- floor plan layout, because this is where inmates would be released out the front of the building in

00:29:55.746 --> 00:30:03.648
- close proximity to a bus pickup drop-off area right here in the front of the building. The questions

00:30:03.648 --> 00:30:09.438
- regarding site. Council Haug, can you please move your microphone to you?

00:30:09.602 --> 00:30:17.628
- I know I read that there was detention as well as runoff from the from the building and the parking

00:30:17.628 --> 00:30:25.895
- lot and also using some of the what's already on the site for some of the drainage to go to. Does that

00:30:25.895 --> 00:30:34.001
- show where does that show? Yes so right up here on kind of the north end of the site we've allocated

00:30:34.001 --> 00:30:38.014
- some space here for some on-site storm detention.

00:30:38.114 --> 00:30:48.259
- Also in this area right here, it's labeled. You'll see that in the kind of the southeast quadrant of

00:30:48.259 --> 00:30:59.006
- the site as well. All right. TSD, if you would advance the slide. So this is the overall first floor plan.

00:30:59.234 --> 00:31:06.593
- So what you see here is both the sheriff's office and jail and the justice center. Now, one thing I

00:31:06.593 --> 00:31:14.099
- want to point out, you'll see the area that has the dashed red line around that. That's what we refer

00:31:14.099 --> 00:31:21.458
- to as the secure perimeter. We've been asked by the sheriff's office transition team to obscure the

00:31:21.458 --> 00:31:27.198
- layout and configuration of what this really looks like for security reasons.

00:31:27.330 --> 00:31:35.130
- But I can assure you that the transition team has been intimately involved in the layout and configuration

00:31:35.130 --> 00:31:42.638
- of these spaces within the secure perimeter. So I just wanted to point that out. Regarding the general

00:31:42.638 --> 00:31:50.147
- overview and the layout of this facility, so to give you some sense of orientation, you'll see a north

00:31:50.147 --> 00:31:55.614
- arrow right down here. So in reality, this building is turned a little bit

00:31:56.258 --> 00:32:03.603
- at about a 45 degree angle on the site. So north is that direction, right? We, however, we don't rotate

00:32:03.603 --> 00:32:10.454
- our drawings on a drawing sheet. So we refer to as plan north, plan south, plan east, plan west.

00:32:10.454 --> 00:32:17.587
- So this is our front elevation is our plan north elevation. But from the north, you see that we have

00:32:17.587 --> 00:32:24.862
- a common entry point where all of the public will enter the facility. There'll be security right here.

00:32:25.058 --> 00:32:33.239
- Right off of that area, we have a shared conference room just north of the Sheriff's Office Administration,

00:32:33.239 --> 00:32:40.434
- which is identified here in this blue color. Just below that, we have the Jail Administration,

00:32:40.434 --> 00:32:48.388
- which is a little darker blue area. Now, there is direct access from the Sheriff's and Jail Office admin

00:32:48.388 --> 00:32:52.478
- areas into the secure perimeter of the jail, which is

00:32:53.346 --> 00:32:59.611
- defined by this red line right here. The purple is our intake area. So this is kind of the first stop

00:32:59.611 --> 00:33:06.183
- for the arresting officer and the arrestee. So this is our vehicle Sallyport that Nick spoke about before.

00:33:06.183 --> 00:33:12.632
- So this is where patrol cars will pull in, will go into the intake booking and do their processing area.

00:33:12.632 --> 00:33:18.897
- The pink area here is what you heard me talk about the medical mental health area of the facility and

00:33:18.897 --> 00:33:20.862
- again it's intentionally placed

00:33:21.250 --> 00:33:28.390
- immediately adjacent to the intake area. This light blue right here, this is our visitation,

00:33:28.390 --> 00:33:36.604
- whether it be contact or non-contact visitation. So in many instances, for the non-contact or the contact,

00:33:36.604 --> 00:33:44.589
- the public can enter off this public corridor right here, load from one side, and then inmates can load

00:33:44.589 --> 00:33:50.270
- from the secure side, from the opposite side. We have our master control.

00:33:51.074 --> 00:33:57.958
- We intentionally placed it right here at the intersection of these corridors for observation,

00:33:57.958 --> 00:34:05.721
- since that's a 24-7 man post. Moving on then, we have our laundry right over here in kind of this orangey

00:34:05.721 --> 00:34:13.558
- color. This green area, those are our inmate workers, both male and female. I don't mean to interrupt you,

00:34:13.558 --> 00:34:20.222
- but on that master control for a second, I was going to ask, that individual or that unit,

00:34:20.450 --> 00:34:26.873
- there, I shouldn't say individual, that they can see the breadth of the building in all ways. Is that right?

00:34:26.873 --> 00:34:33.119
- They can definitely see all the way down this long public corridor. And then we have security, obviously,

00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:39.011
- right here at our main public entry. We also have an information desk that will be staffed by court

00:34:39.011 --> 00:34:45.139
- administration right here. So as public comes in, if they're trying to see, you know, they want to know

00:34:45.139 --> 00:34:47.614
- what courtroom they need to go to, that's

00:34:47.938 --> 00:34:56.806
- why we put that right here. And master control is not going to be going, oh, you want room 12. Correct. Yes.

00:34:56.806 --> 00:35:05.349
- So somebody walking in will have court dockets, monitors right there, likely identifying Carnegie versus

00:35:05.349 --> 00:35:13.892
- whoever, courtroom three, for example. And then you just go down the public corridor. This lighter shade

00:35:13.892 --> 00:35:16.414
- of orange is our kitchen area.

00:35:16.738 --> 00:35:23.816
- again it's in very close proximity to the loading dock area that Nick pointed out in this little haunch

00:35:23.816 --> 00:35:30.893
- of the building. This green light green area this is what we refer to as our general population housing

00:35:30.893 --> 00:35:37.699
- area and you can see the date rooms that are listed these over here in blue these are the alternate

00:35:37.699 --> 00:35:41.918
- one that's where we pick up 48 additional beds then over here

00:35:42.242 --> 00:35:50.029
- For these three that are identified here, that's where you would pick up alternate two with ads and

00:35:50.029 --> 00:35:58.283
- additional 48 beds by build out. Yes, Kate. Originally on the previous slide, you had potential expansion

00:35:58.283 --> 00:36:06.303
- areas, but that's different than what you're talking about with the alternate bid areas. That's a very

00:36:06.303 --> 00:36:08.094
- excellent point, Kate.

00:36:09.026 --> 00:36:15.279
- And that's why partly why I say hopefully not in my lifetime. Would we ever have to add on to this?

00:36:15.279 --> 00:36:21.595
- That future expansion is in addition to the build out of these additional beds. These alternate bids

00:36:21.595 --> 00:36:27.849
- right here. You add those additional beds gets us to the 500. Got it. Makes sense. OK, so those are

00:36:27.849 --> 00:36:31.038
- those are just I don't know the right wording, but

00:36:31.266 --> 00:36:39.380
- You'll have it structured in, not built out completely. Correct. And that other stuff that tacks onto

00:36:39.380 --> 00:36:48.131
- the outside of the building is way down the road. And we're not thinking about it, but at least there's land.

00:36:48.131 --> 00:36:56.166
- Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Very, very good summary. Yes, Marty. So is a sage green or whatever that

00:36:56.166 --> 00:36:57.598
- part of the site.

00:36:58.946 --> 00:37:05.691
- if you didn't see all those first alternate bid outs, is it still going to be there and it will be the

00:37:05.691 --> 00:37:12.304
- first floor and then will the alternate bid be some on top or is that the whole thing that's in Sage

00:37:12.304 --> 00:37:18.525
- Green not going to be built right now? Everything that's not in these little identified areas,

00:37:18.525 --> 00:37:25.663
- all of this will be built out. That's base bid. These areas will be, these two boxes down here in particular

00:37:25.663 --> 00:37:27.038
- will be shelled out.

00:37:27.170 --> 00:37:35.433
- This is where there's two additional day rooms here and two additional day rooms here. I get 48 additional

00:37:35.433 --> 00:37:44.005
- beds here, and I get 48 additional beds here. We're going to shell the space, meaning floors, walls, and roof,

00:37:44.005 --> 00:37:51.959
- so that on bid day, if bids come in under budget, and you all as the elected officials choose to award

00:37:51.959 --> 00:37:56.670
- either that alternate to where you get the 404 plus 48 beds,

00:37:56.930 --> 00:38:04.592
- or you can add the other alternate to get to the 500, but there will be shelled space where you can add those,

00:38:04.592 --> 00:38:12.254
- finish them out. Part of the original plan back? Yes. Four years ago, whenever we started. Yeah. Okay, thanks.

00:38:12.254 --> 00:38:19.226
- All right. So the other area that I have not yet touched on that's within a secure perimeter is this

00:38:19.226 --> 00:38:26.750
- brown area. That is inmate holding. So it's kind of the on deck circle for inmates during court proceedings.

00:38:26.850 --> 00:38:33.539
- there is secure holding right off of this back corridor that lead to the back of the courts.

00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:40.732
- So that comprises everything within a secure perimeter, the sheriff's office and jail. Moving on to

00:38:40.732 --> 00:38:47.494
- kind of the east end of the building is our justice center. So in this light area right here,

00:38:47.494 --> 00:38:55.262
- this is the clerk's office. This is probation and community corrections. Right here is the public defender.

00:38:56.034 --> 00:39:02.784
- We have prosecutor criminal, prosecutor child support. So they're all off of this main public corridor,

00:39:02.784 --> 00:39:09.534
- which we really like for supervision and security purposes. We don't like corners where people can hide

00:39:09.534 --> 00:39:16.543
- behind and that kind of thing. And also why we wanted the master control, which is a 24-7 post right there.

00:39:16.543 --> 00:39:23.358
- On the other side of the corridor, we have our courtrooms. So again, the public will always enter either

00:39:23.554 --> 00:39:30.476
- Any reason they're here for the facility will be in this main corridor. So we have our courtrooms located

00:39:30.476 --> 00:39:37.138
- right here. We have a shared large conference rooms right here that's shared between everybody in the

00:39:37.138 --> 00:39:43.603
- facility. And then when you get down into these gray areas down here, it's more of our mechanical,

00:39:43.603 --> 00:39:48.958
- electrical, plumbing, IT. Those are the spaces we need to make the facility work.

00:39:50.306 --> 00:39:56.592
- And then in this little brown area right here, these are jury rooms. So we have two jury rooms,

00:39:56.592 --> 00:40:03.402
- small kitchenette, both of them equipped with their own toilet facilities. But it's, again, off of this

00:40:03.402 --> 00:40:10.211
- back corridor that the public will not have access to. So you notice these kind of brighter green boxes

00:40:10.211 --> 00:40:16.366
- right here. Those brighter green boxes represent vertical circulation, meaning stairs. Sorry,

00:40:16.366 --> 00:40:19.902
- I know I'm going to cuss here when I say an elevator.

00:40:20.066 --> 00:40:27.747
- We have one elevator. There will not be inmates. And there's no food delivery up to the fifth floor

00:40:27.747 --> 00:40:35.581
- like you currently have in your justice center. These stairs and elevators go up to the second floor.

00:40:35.581 --> 00:40:43.339
- And if you turn the page, you'll see those same green boxes over on the same right side of the page.

00:40:43.339 --> 00:40:46.334
- Those go up and access a second floor.

00:40:46.466 --> 00:40:55.448
- Our second floor is isolation for the judges. So we have our judges chamber and court administration

00:40:55.448 --> 00:41:04.073
- up on the second floor. So for security purposes, judges, judges chambers, court administration,

00:41:04.073 --> 00:41:10.654
- they're isolated to the second floor. Make sense? The reason that we show

00:41:10.786 --> 00:41:17.202
- A second floor in the general population area is because keep in mind these day rooms, there are two-story

00:41:17.202 --> 00:41:23.558
- space volumes and there's a perimeter mezzanine because of the cells around the perimeter. So technically

00:41:23.558 --> 00:41:29.974
- there is a second floor, but it's the mezzanine and upper level cells in the two-story day room. Open air.

00:41:29.974 --> 00:41:36.151
- Yes. Okay. Yes. And that's just the way that we designed modern, everybody designs modern jails pretty

00:41:36.151 --> 00:41:36.990
- much anymore.

00:41:39.426 --> 00:41:46.347
- If you turn the page, this is what we refer to as building elevations. So this is a flat, two-dimensional

00:41:46.347 --> 00:41:52.942
- drawing of what the building is beginning to shape up and look like. And this is where I refer to as

00:41:52.942 --> 00:41:59.537
- Plan North, Plan South, in reality, because it's kind of turned. The front of the building is really

00:41:59.537 --> 00:42:06.655
- facing northwest. But you can see there's a legend down here in the bottom right-hand corner that identifies

00:42:06.655 --> 00:42:08.222
- the proposed materials.

00:42:09.090 --> 00:42:15.744
- I'm not going to go into and explain all of the building materials and every application where we're

00:42:15.744 --> 00:42:21.936
- going to use them, because the renderings that you're going to see here in a moment, I think,

00:42:21.936 --> 00:42:28.392
- really speaks volumes. But generally speaking, the exterior materials are three primary elements.

00:42:28.392 --> 00:42:34.782
- They are insulated precast panels with a combination of either acid etched or exposed aggregate.

00:42:36.034 --> 00:42:42.579
- And then we also have five inch precast concrete veneer and that predominantly the veneers along the

00:42:42.579 --> 00:42:49.512
- front of the building because we'll stick build that with and not be an insulated panel. The third primary

00:42:49.512 --> 00:42:56.510
- element that you're going to see in the building elevations are a composite metal panel and you'll see that

00:42:56.642 --> 00:43:02.543
- in the elevations here in a moment. That's where we really want to just pull out a design feature,

00:43:02.543 --> 00:43:08.266
- give it a little pop and try to break up some of the horizontal. The building's a big building.

00:43:08.266 --> 00:43:14.287
- So we want to kind of decrease the appearance that it's very long and linear. So you'll see a couple

00:43:14.287 --> 00:43:20.546
- of little design elements where we've incorporated some metal panels. The metal panels are also utilized

00:43:20.546 --> 00:43:25.374
- at our entrances, canopies, that type of thing. We'll have a canopy over a door.

00:43:26.722 --> 00:43:34.201
- Again, turning the page, now you're kind of seeing the ends of the building, that being the east and the west.

00:43:34.201 --> 00:43:41.006
- And the building materials are the same all the way around the building, just a combination of those

00:43:41.006 --> 00:43:47.811
- three primary elements. Now we get into what I kind of refer to as the fun drawings, because I think

00:43:47.811 --> 00:43:54.482
- that they just really kind of begin to bring the project to life. So this is the site layout plan,

00:43:54.482 --> 00:43:56.638
- but it's actually rendered now.

00:43:56.802 --> 00:44:04.313
- So you can kind of begin to see a little more, I think, with some definity what some of these elements are.

00:44:04.313 --> 00:44:10.781
- So Nick, you want to kind of walk through, just kind of highlight some of those items? Yeah,

00:44:10.781 --> 00:44:18.222
- I think this 3D rendering helps see some of the retaining walls on the north and then along the southwest,

00:44:18.222 --> 00:44:20.030
- the proposed public road.

00:44:20.962 --> 00:44:27.972
- Along the east side of the building were backed up against the floodplain and so trying to balance the

00:44:27.972 --> 00:44:35.185
- site there's some cut and fill and so that that east side of the site will will receive a retaining wall.

00:44:35.185 --> 00:44:42.059
- To kind of fill the site in that area. This starts to show planting the trees and kind of the buffer

00:44:42.059 --> 00:44:46.142
- yard areas for screening the site is required by ordinance.

00:44:47.522 --> 00:44:55.276
- You can see in the front entry plaza that covered walkway for the loading and drop off zone.

00:44:55.276 --> 00:45:04.532
- On the next image, it starts to help you see in three dimension what the front of the building will look like,

00:45:04.532 --> 00:45:12.286
- how cars might circulate that. And just as a point of reference, this is Hunter Valley Road.

00:45:12.546 --> 00:45:18.711
- Right here. So the new roadway that Nick spoke about before, it's really down here just out of camera view.

00:45:18.711 --> 00:45:24.419
- But this is the loop drive that Nick was talking about that comes around. That's the loop drive all

00:45:24.419 --> 00:45:30.413
- the way around. And you can see we're planning for a bus drop off here. This is where the inmate release

00:45:30.413 --> 00:45:36.350
- resource center would be located in close proximity to the inmate release to the front of the building.

00:45:38.274 --> 00:45:45.654
- Ask a quick question. Yes. In the drawings that we have projected up on the screen, we see some of the

00:45:45.654 --> 00:45:52.962
- roof structures a little recessed. Forgive me for asking, but we've had a lot of water issues lately.

00:45:52.962 --> 00:46:00.413
- So can you explain a little bit about how, in that section, water won't be dripping down onto the desks

00:46:00.413 --> 00:46:06.718
- of our justice staff? OK, so excellent point. So what you see here in this rendering is

00:46:09.250 --> 00:46:15.492
- people sometimes refer to those as flat roofs. I don't like flat roofs. Well, there's no such thing

00:46:15.492 --> 00:46:21.983
- as a flat roof. It's what we refer to as a low slope roof, but it is a single ply membrane, very likely

00:46:21.983 --> 00:46:28.475
- a TPO roof. And we need to have these details, you know, as far as the actual materials with the owner,

00:46:28.475 --> 00:46:34.654
- the commissioners and maintenance staff as well. But you also see several skylights. Now these are

00:46:34.850 --> 00:46:42.449
- quality commercial skylights. And to be honest with you, in probably the 30-some year of my career of

00:46:42.449 --> 00:46:49.973
- designing jails where we provide these skylights, I don't know that I've ever had a callback because

00:46:49.973 --> 00:46:57.870
- of a leak. And I'm just 100% honest. Now, the reason that we have skylights is because by DOC, Department

00:46:57.870 --> 00:47:04.798
- of Corrections standard, jail standards, we have to provide a certain level of natural light

00:47:05.250 --> 00:47:13.118
- into areas where inmates are confined. So day rooms, holdings, those types of things. So that's why

00:47:13.118 --> 00:47:21.537
- you see the rooftop just peppered with skylights. Now, to your point, you see this raised area right here?

00:47:21.537 --> 00:47:29.563
- This is where we're providing clear story lighting. So clear story lighting is tall. It's up and it's

00:47:29.563 --> 00:47:31.294
- horizontal typically.

00:47:31.842 --> 00:47:37.959
- That's where we're providing some natural light into the courtrooms. Because if you noticed on the floor

00:47:37.959 --> 00:47:43.843
- plans, the courtrooms don't back up to an exterior wall, which is good and bad. But that's how we're

00:47:43.843 --> 00:47:49.843
- popping that roof up to provide natural light into the courtrooms. The other thing I want to point out

00:47:49.843 --> 00:47:55.785
- is you see these areas right here, these are mechanical rooftop screens. Because as part of our value

00:47:55.785 --> 00:48:00.446
- engineering exercise, you heard me talk about some of our conversations weren't

00:48:02.050 --> 00:48:08.316
- very pleasant. When we had to start thinking about how we're going to save cost, reduce scope,

00:48:08.316 --> 00:48:15.110
- reduce square footage, one of the items that we came up with was to instead of building isolated rooms

00:48:15.110 --> 00:48:22.101
- to house some of the mechanical equipment, they're going up on the roof, which is fine. That's done very,

00:48:22.101 --> 00:48:26.718
- very frequently. However, regarding the PUD, we do have to screen it.

00:48:27.362 --> 00:48:34.388
- So as you heard Nick talk about the grade elevation from the upper level up here from Hunter Valley Road,

00:48:34.388 --> 00:48:41.347
- which is the high point of the site, you can't look down and see mechanical rooftop equipment. So that's

00:48:41.347 --> 00:48:45.854
- why you see the rooftop screens. Did I answer your question, Peter?

00:48:46.114 --> 00:48:52.513
- I think so. There's a lot of people behind you right now that have been having some water issues in

00:48:52.513 --> 00:48:59.168
- their offices. So maybe we'll hear about that in public comment. But I do want to give some reassurance

00:48:59.168 --> 00:49:05.823
- that as we're thinking about a design, we're taking that into account as well. So keeping that thought,

00:49:05.823 --> 00:49:12.350
- do you know what the slope is, the grade? Of the site? Of the roof. The roof? Well, I'm going to turn

00:49:12.350 --> 00:49:15.998
- around for a little backup. Is it quarter inch per foot?

00:49:16.482 --> 00:49:24.317
- Quarter inch per foot is the typical slope. Yeah, it's dictated to us by the code. That's the minimum.

00:49:24.317 --> 00:49:32.000
- You can go taller, but that increased cost because then either you're sloping your roof structure or

00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:39.683
- you're building up tapered insulation, which means all your parapet around the building gets taller.

00:49:39.683 --> 00:49:43.486
- We typically do quarter inch per foot. All right.

00:49:44.674 --> 00:49:51.885
- Again, now turning the page, you'll see a project rendering. Now we're just kind of zooming in a little bit.

00:49:51.885 --> 00:49:58.897
- So now we're still in a helicopter. I'm not at grade. But this just gives you some idea on a perspective.

00:49:58.897 --> 00:50:05.049
- So this is a dome concept right here with, again, clear story lighting around the perimeter.

00:50:05.049 --> 00:50:12.128
- So this is our main entry right here. And you can see this area over here in the purple on the floor plan,

00:50:12.128 --> 00:50:14.046
- this is the conference room.

00:50:15.106 --> 00:50:21.704
- that's immediately off of the main front lobby area. Over here you see the sheriff's administration

00:50:21.704 --> 00:50:28.434
- area and as you start to come down this side of the building, this is the clerks area, then you start

00:50:28.434 --> 00:50:35.164
- moving into the probation community corrections. You heard me talk about the use of some metal panels

00:50:35.164 --> 00:50:40.574
- and we typically try to do some kind of a vertical design feature to break up the

00:50:40.674 --> 00:50:49.193
- long horizontality of a building facade. That's, for example, where we would begin to incorporate a

00:50:49.193 --> 00:50:58.393
- composite metal panel. Scott, I have a quick question. So you said over here to the right is the conference

00:50:58.393 --> 00:51:06.997
- room? Yep. Should that be as visible? I guess, is there no security concern for that area to be open

00:51:06.997 --> 00:51:07.934
- like that?

00:51:08.034 --> 00:51:14.620
- That conference room is really conceived originally to where it could be used by somebody from the public,

00:51:14.620 --> 00:51:21.145
- like a public agency. If they need, the sheriff's office wants to host training for other jail commanders

00:51:21.145 --> 00:51:27.792
- across the state and that kind of thing. You can't access that conference. There is another door back here.

00:51:27.792 --> 00:51:33.086
- It's an emergency egress directly to the outside, but it's only for emergency egress.

00:51:33.506 --> 00:51:39.306
- you would have to go through security through the main entry lobby to gain access to that conference room.

00:51:39.306 --> 00:51:44.834
- I guess I'm just thinking like there's windows and things that are here where people that are walking

00:51:44.834 --> 00:51:50.255
- up to the building can see in and that would be I would say maybe a little bit of a safety concern.

00:51:50.255 --> 00:51:56.000
- Yeah and that's a good point we can have that conversation with the with the user group there's different

00:51:56.000 --> 00:51:59.198
- ways that we can approach that we can apply some films and

00:51:59.426 --> 00:52:11.005
- you know, laminate some things within the glass to obscure the vision as well. Marty. Can you help me? Marty,

00:52:11.005 --> 00:52:21.531
- turn your mic around please. Thank you. Let's say if we're at the stoplight that's there now, would

00:52:21.531 --> 00:52:24.478
- you be looking at the front

00:52:24.578 --> 00:52:29.880
- of that building, or would it be at the side? I'm just trying to think, if you're driving along,

00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:35.181
- are we going to see that big, beautiful building, or are we going to see the backside of it? No,

00:52:35.181 --> 00:52:41.194
- you're going to see the front. Now, when I say you're going to see the front, and that's why we intentionally

00:52:41.194 --> 00:52:46.769
- rotated the building at a 45 degree on the site, is so that when you're at that stoplight, State Road

00:52:46.769 --> 00:52:52.234
- 46 and Hunter Valley Road, and you make that turn, and you're kind of coming up that slight, to me,

00:52:52.234 --> 00:52:53.054
- it's a little,

00:52:55.458 --> 00:53:01.126
- It doesn't really look like there's a grade going up, but there is a little bit of a grade going up.

00:53:01.126 --> 00:53:06.794
- Once you reach the high point there, then you're going to look over to your right or be able to turn

00:53:06.794 --> 00:53:12.406
- right into that new access road. And that's going to be the front of the building. And it's looking

00:53:12.406 --> 00:53:16.222
- straight at you. And that's why we rotated it 45 for that approach.

00:53:20.546 --> 00:53:27.204
- So now in the rendering, we've kind of dropped down to more of an eye level as opposed to kind of hovering

00:53:27.204 --> 00:53:34.111
- in a helicopter. But this is the main public drop-off entry area. You can begin to see this canopy right here.

00:53:34.111 --> 00:53:40.458
- One of the things we've talked about, if you go down to City Hall, you're going to see it. So I can't

00:53:40.458 --> 00:53:46.867
- claim this as an original idea, but we've talked about incorporating some photometric panels there for

00:53:46.867 --> 00:53:47.614
- the canopy.

00:53:49.954 --> 00:53:56.389
- photometric panels for the canopy right here. And I just commented, if you go down to City Hall and

00:53:56.389 --> 00:54:02.824
- you look at their covered parking, I can't claim that as an original idea, but something that we've

00:54:02.824 --> 00:54:09.646
- talked about internally that we could possibly incorporate here. That's not currently budgeted? Yes. Yes,

00:54:09.646 --> 00:54:16.274
- it is currently budgeted? For this right here. Okay. And that would be powering? Going to a power bank

00:54:16.274 --> 00:54:18.462
- and our electrical engineers will

00:54:18.850 --> 00:54:26.367
- talk to the building user groups and determine how to distribute from there. But it would be all used on site.

00:54:26.367 --> 00:54:33.139
- Yes, I would anticipate that, yeah. Again, we're not hovering in a helicopter. This is kind of what

00:54:33.139 --> 00:54:39.437
- you would expect to see if you were walking up and approaching the main entry. So of course,

00:54:39.437 --> 00:54:45.735
- it'd be a crosswalk. You heard Nick speak previously regarding, we call them crash bollards,

00:54:45.735 --> 00:54:47.902
- but you can see crash bollards.

00:54:48.066 --> 00:54:57.021
- here in that entry plaza area to prevent somebody from a vehicle ramming the front door. Those aren't

00:54:57.021 --> 00:55:06.064
- your typical bollards that most of you are accustomed to saying. These are deep, but have footings and

00:55:06.064 --> 00:55:14.931
- foundations. Now we're just kind of beginning to, yes, Marty. Marty, your microphone. I'm not seeing

00:55:14.931 --> 00:55:17.214
- handrails there, but then

00:55:17.314 --> 00:55:24.159
- Maybe it's going to be there. Remember that may look like it's really easy for the average person,

00:55:24.159 --> 00:55:31.142
- but for someone who has visual problems or someone with balance problems, there's going to need some

00:55:31.142 --> 00:55:38.471
- handrails there. What are the handrails for? There aren't any stairs. There's no stairs. That's striping.

00:55:38.471 --> 00:55:45.662
- That's striping across asphalt. It's not stairs. No, it's just a crosswalk painted at paint on asphalt.

00:55:47.490 --> 00:55:54.959
- There looks like stairs. The image on the next rendering on the next page is a little more helpful just

00:55:54.959 --> 00:56:02.356
- to show it's just a standard crosswalk striping. So yeah, Marty, those are the painted on the asphalt.

00:56:02.356 --> 00:56:09.609
- So again, we're beginning to kind of spin around the building now. So you can see the crash ballers.

00:56:09.609 --> 00:56:17.150
- Nick spoke about the paving out front in this entry plaza area being something a little more decorative.

00:56:17.474 --> 00:56:24.539
- You can see the dome. You can see the building off in the distance. So you can see, now you can begin

00:56:24.539 --> 00:56:30.910
- to see the two-story down here at this end of the building. This is the judges chambers and

00:56:30.910 --> 00:56:38.391
- court administration up on the second floor. Everything else is at grade. Depending on around the building.

00:56:38.391 --> 00:56:45.386
- So this is where the inmate release resource center as an alternate bid would be because this is the

00:56:45.386 --> 00:56:46.494
- inmate release.

00:56:46.658 --> 00:56:53.720
- Right here's our bus stop. And this area right here is likely going to be signed, you know, law enforcement

00:56:53.720 --> 00:57:00.324
- vehicles only beyond this point because the public, this is the loop drive that comes around, right?

00:57:00.324 --> 00:57:07.320
- We don't necessarily want them going back here because there's nowhere to go. This is the secure sheriff's

00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:13.989
- office and jail parking area. And there's our vehicle sally port so they can enter from either end of

00:57:13.989 --> 00:57:15.166
- this parking lot.

00:57:17.154 --> 00:57:24.705
- One component of that too is that opaque precast wall there that conceals the Sallyport and the sheriff's

00:57:24.705 --> 00:57:32.042
- office and jail parking from the public side of the facility. That's a good point. And the reason that

00:57:32.042 --> 00:57:39.735
- we did that here, and you'll see it when I spin around the building even more so, the PUD that was recently

00:57:39.735 --> 00:57:45.790
- adopted, I think it's 150 feet to the center line of a road. You can't have fencing.

00:57:46.050 --> 00:57:54.067
- That's why we put that there to comply with the PUD. I just got one more quick question for the entrance

00:57:54.067 --> 00:58:01.701
- part of the building. The bollards that are there, the crash area that's there, is that wide enough

00:58:01.701 --> 00:58:09.718
- for accessibility for wheelchairs? Oh yeah, absolutely. Yes. Okay. Yes. And I could show you photographs

00:58:09.718 --> 00:58:15.902
- of where we've incorporated something very similar. So now if you turn the page,

00:58:16.354 --> 00:58:23.134
- We're going to kind of spend continue spinning around the building. So now I'm overlooking the secure

00:58:23.134 --> 00:58:29.914
- sheriff's office and jail parking area. There's that screen wall that we just talked about. Over here

00:58:29.914 --> 00:58:36.694
- is the main entry. This is our vehicle sally port. And right here is staff entrance. Then we also are

00:58:36.694 --> 00:58:43.407
- releasing inmates out the front near the alternate bed inmate release resource center. You can begin

00:58:43.407 --> 00:58:44.670
- to see this is the

00:58:44.770 --> 00:58:52.226
- raised roof area that I spoke about before as far as how we would get natural light into the courtrooms

00:58:52.226 --> 00:58:59.826
- and this big block back here this is the general population housing area so the future addition hopefully

00:58:59.826 --> 00:59:06.494
- not in my lifetime would occur back here that's the area we're preserving. One other thing I

00:59:06.818 --> 00:59:14.436
- want to point out real quick, Marty, these two windows right here, those two windows, if you look on

00:59:14.436 --> 00:59:22.206
- the floor plan and kind of try to match things up, these windows right here go into the mental health,

00:59:22.206 --> 00:59:29.900
- both the male and female mental health day rooms. So we're really trying to flood that area with some

00:59:29.900 --> 00:59:34.878
- natural light. Marty. Microphone. Will that be artificial turf or

00:59:35.042 --> 00:59:42.769
- grass or what or plantings what as we get more detailed in design it'll start to show that it's probably

00:59:42.769 --> 00:59:50.274
- mulch planting islands not not turd or turf natural turf not artificial yep thank you all right so if

00:59:50.274 --> 00:59:56.382
- you turn the page we're continuing to spin around come to the back of the building

00:59:57.698 --> 01:00:03.756
- I think this one kind of really helps you visualize what's going on at the back of the building.

01:00:03.756 --> 01:00:10.063
- So this is the loop drive that Nick talked about that goes, if you follow it all the way to the end,

01:00:10.063 --> 01:00:16.496
- that goes in to kind of the back of the sheriff's office jail secure parking. This is the access drive

01:00:16.496 --> 01:00:22.929
- that goes into delivery area, loading dock, generators, chillers, that kind of thing sitting out here.

01:00:22.929 --> 01:00:27.550
- This area right here, this is the justice parking area for justice staff.

01:00:28.162 --> 01:00:35.234
- This is the secure justice parking area. So there'll be a gate there just like there will be at the

01:00:35.234 --> 01:00:42.377
- other secure parking for the sheriff's office in jail. This is the other opaque wall that Nick spoke

01:00:42.377 --> 01:00:49.874
- about previously. As far as providing that here, just provide some added protection because Hunter Valley

01:00:49.874 --> 01:00:57.017
- Road is right here, right? What's the difference? Who parks in that little area that's secure versus

01:00:57.017 --> 01:00:58.078
- outside of it?

01:00:59.650 --> 01:01:06.639
- Well, this conversation was originally conceived where I think talking to the prosecutor's office and

01:01:06.639 --> 01:01:13.766
- the judges, they were somewhat concerned regarding, you know, going out to an unprotected parking area.

01:01:13.766 --> 01:01:21.303
- I know that there were some females in particular that had concern going out, you know, when it was dark out.

01:01:21.303 --> 01:01:24.318
- So in further conversation with the judges,

01:01:24.450 --> 01:01:32.763
- there was a strong consensus that there was a very strong preference for some secure parking area,

01:01:32.763 --> 01:01:41.579
- at least for the judges, elected officials, prosecutor, public defender, those types of areas. The other

01:01:41.579 --> 01:01:49.808
- thing we've talked about is since it's not conceivable to secure all of the justice parking area,

01:01:49.808 --> 01:01:54.174
- if there is a staff member, whether male or female,

01:01:55.266 --> 01:02:02.295
- knows that they're going to be working late. If they want to park in there, there would be some areas

01:02:02.295 --> 01:02:09.531
- allocated for that purpose. They could go move their car, pull it in there so they're in close proximity

01:02:09.531 --> 01:02:16.491
- to the staff entrance when they leave the building. Turning the page, now you begin to see just kind

01:02:16.491 --> 01:02:23.934
- of a zoomed in area of the exact thing that we were talking about. This is the secure justice parking area.

01:02:24.194 --> 01:02:30.742
- This is the sliding gate that I was referring to. There is a staff entrance right here in very close

01:02:30.742 --> 01:02:37.484
- proximity to the stairs and elevator that goes up to the second floor for the judges chambers and court

01:02:37.484 --> 01:02:44.097
- administration. There's also at the very end of that long public corridor that stretches down to this

01:02:44.097 --> 01:02:50.580
- exterior wall. We have another staff entrance over here. So it's just a staff parking over here and

01:02:50.580 --> 01:02:53.822
- they want to use that door, they can utilize that

01:02:54.050 --> 01:03:03.596
- door as well. I'm continuing to spin around the building. Marty. Well, you know, we are in Bloomington,

01:03:03.596 --> 01:03:13.417
- Indiana, where we sometimes have a lot of snow. So what's the drainage for one word to put the snow piles?

01:03:13.417 --> 01:03:23.422
- Or is it assumed that they'll be hauled off? I mean, I'm sure you've already talked to people about this. So

01:03:23.586 --> 01:03:29.631
- You can tell me about that later. Very good point. Well, I just want to make sure that we didn't end

01:03:29.631 --> 01:03:35.735
- up with no way to get in and out of there because of all the snow. Yeah, good point, especially after

01:03:35.735 --> 01:03:42.079
- last winter. All right, so we're continuing to spin around the building. And this is where you can really

01:03:42.079 --> 01:03:48.303
- begin to see the upper level court, judges chamber, and court administration area. This is another area

01:03:48.303 --> 01:03:51.774
- where we're incorporating a lot of composite metal panel.

01:03:52.098 --> 01:03:58.064
- both as a design feature, but also to help reduce some of the costs so that we're not extending precast

01:03:58.064 --> 01:04:03.916
- veneer up on the second floor. So now you can kind of begin to see, if you're looking down the length

01:04:03.916 --> 01:04:10.054
- of the building, what that would look like. So what you're seeing here is a precast concrete veneer panel.

01:04:10.054 --> 01:04:16.193
- More around the back of the building, where the inmates are being housed, where the maintenance areas are,

01:04:16.193 --> 01:04:20.094
- that's where we would utilize the insulated precast concrete panel.

01:04:23.554 --> 01:04:30.649
- And we're going to finish again at the front of our building where we started. So we've kind of spun

01:04:30.649 --> 01:04:37.815
- all the way around the building, kind of showing you some views of what the building would look like.

01:04:37.815 --> 01:04:45.332
- So if you look at this page again, if you look in this report, you will see what we refer to as discipline

01:04:45.332 --> 01:04:49.758
- narrative. So all of the disciplines, site, civil, structural,

01:04:50.498 --> 01:04:58.276
- architectural, mechanical, electrical, plumbing, fire protection. Everybody has a narrative in here

01:04:58.276 --> 01:05:06.443
- that was also provided to the Weddegarmung Smoot in their packet when they prepared their cost estimate.

01:05:06.443 --> 01:05:14.376
- If you're having trouble falling asleep tonight, I would encourage you to read that. So the page that

01:05:14.376 --> 01:05:18.654
- I know everybody is eagerly awaiting, and I'm going to

01:05:18.882 --> 01:05:26.110
- I'll turn it over to Chris Seeley with Welligar Monks. Thanks Scott. Yeah, I'm Chris Seeley.

01:05:26.110 --> 01:05:34.192
- I'm with Welligar Brothers, part of the WGS team. What you'll see in front of you is the updated budget

01:05:34.192 --> 01:05:42.119
- based on 237,161 square feet, 404 beds, also the shell space for the additional 96 beds as described,

01:05:42.119 --> 01:05:46.238
- full Sheriff's Office and jail, full Justice Center.

01:05:46.658 --> 01:06:01.190
- As of this design and what you've seen, total construction costs is $194,090,689, with an added soft

01:06:01.190 --> 01:06:11.262
- cost of $30,409,429, bringing the total project cost to $224,500,118.

01:06:11.938 --> 01:06:19.170
- Down below, you have the ad alternates. I want to highlight that it is an ad for the items that were

01:06:19.170 --> 01:06:25.901
- highlighted in the day rooms and the inmate resource center. So both alternates, one and two,

01:06:25.901 --> 01:06:33.348
- they're the same cost because of the same scope. So it's just mirror image of each other, just flipping

01:06:33.348 --> 01:06:40.222
- the pods in which they're in. Both of those are $2,458,805. And then the inmate resource center

01:06:40.514 --> 01:06:50.673
- $896,656. Those are your alternates to be considered. Chris, just for folks in the public and maybe

01:06:50.673 --> 01:07:01.543
- some of us that might need a refresh, when we talk about the term soft costs, can you remind us what that,

01:07:01.543 --> 01:07:06.622
- because it's an amount. Yeah, so the soft cost is

01:07:06.914 --> 01:07:15.657
- cost for design, professional services, it's the furnishings in the building. There are, gosh,

01:07:15.657 --> 01:07:25.597
- property purchase are also included in there. So anything that is an actual construction expense associated

01:07:25.597 --> 01:07:29.278
- with the job. Also, just as a reminder,

01:07:29.378 --> 01:07:37.509
- When we presented the pre-design phase in February, I believe the total project cost estimate was $237

01:07:37.509 --> 01:07:45.561
- million. And if you recall, the commissioners made a motion with the caveat that we would proceed but

01:07:45.561 --> 01:07:53.770
- continue to look for ways to reduce costs. So that was obviously a driving point from February to where

01:07:53.770 --> 01:07:58.270
- we are here today. The last page is an updated timeline.

01:07:59.618 --> 01:08:05.751
- I'm not going to go through everything here on the first page because it's all been completed.

01:08:05.751 --> 01:08:12.206
- But if you look at the second page over here on the slide, you'll see February 27th, that's when we

01:08:12.206 --> 01:08:19.243
- presented the pre-design phase. We forwarded the Schenic Design packet information that I referenced before,

01:08:19.243 --> 01:08:25.828
- as well as a lot of additional drawings to Weldegarmung Smut from July 28th to August 1st, and that's

01:08:25.828 --> 01:08:28.862
- what they used to prepare their cost estimate.

01:08:29.474 --> 01:08:37.850
- And we're here today presenting schematic design to the county. And as I mentioned before, there are

01:08:37.850 --> 01:08:46.559
- two other subsequent design phases, both design development and construction documents that will follow.

01:08:46.559 --> 01:08:55.101
- And of course, we have to have approval from the county to commence the next design phase. You can see

01:08:55.101 --> 01:08:58.750
- that we're still showing occupancy in June.

01:08:59.010 --> 01:09:11.253
- to be completed by the end of 2020 29 being substantially complete. Here. Thank you. Back on the previous

01:09:11.253 --> 01:09:23.265
- page, the project cost estimate page. It would be immensely helpful to have a itemized budget for those

01:09:23.265 --> 01:09:26.846
- four bullet points at the top.

01:09:27.266 --> 01:09:35.313
- cost per square foot. That's always helpful to have as well. I mean, I know that number changes all the time,

01:09:35.313 --> 01:09:42.629
- but the difference between the budgeted costs for the justice center, different costs for the jail,

01:09:42.629 --> 01:09:50.383
- it would be helpful to just see those broken out a little bit more. Might have to go into immense detail,

01:09:50.383 --> 01:09:56.894
- but it would be helpful to have that. Yes, Councillor Feidl. Can I go back to the water?

01:09:57.570 --> 01:10:04.024
- So having lived on some properties before where there have been water issues, I want to know where all

01:10:04.024 --> 01:10:10.980
- the water from the roof is going. From the road, you said? The roof. Oh, the roof. So it kind of goes back to,

01:10:10.980 --> 01:10:17.434
- I forget who, but somebody, I think it was Marty, maybe asked about the stormwater basins that we have

01:10:17.434 --> 01:10:23.137
- built onto our site. So I'm not a civil guy, but I deal with this on every project. I rely

01:10:23.137 --> 01:10:24.766
- on the professionals that

01:10:24.866 --> 01:10:31.080
- do to do this every day. But we are required to hold the amount of stormwater on our own site.

01:10:31.080 --> 01:10:37.752
- We can only discharge it at the same rate that is currently discharged. We can't increase. So we will

01:10:37.752 --> 01:10:44.359
- size the detention pond areas to hold the water on our own site and discharge at its current rate so

01:10:44.359 --> 01:10:46.910
- we're not affecting people downstream.

01:10:48.034 --> 01:10:54.175
- The roof will have roof drains that drain connect into those detention basins. And then, as Scott said,

01:10:54.175 --> 01:11:00.611
- that will release. And what might be the time frame on holding the water? I mean, are we talking mosquitoes?

01:11:00.611 --> 01:11:06.575
- I mean, what could happen there in that water basin? So go ahead. Yeah, I mean, our civil engineers,

01:11:06.575 --> 01:11:12.657
- as we get further in design, will have to look at rates of that. But I think there were some favorable

01:11:12.657 --> 01:11:17.086
- comments to having some standing water. But I think on this side, it might

01:11:17.442 --> 01:11:23.073
- release almost immediately or we could size the basin so that there's no standing water. But we have

01:11:23.073 --> 01:11:28.704
- to really dive into those details in the next phase of the project. Thanks. Council Henry. Thank you

01:11:28.704 --> 01:11:34.279
- Madam President. Thank you everybody for your presentation. It's admirable that the vendor takes in

01:11:34.279 --> 01:11:39.910
- requirements, comes up with a wonderful design. I mean I can tell about the attention to detail here

01:11:39.910 --> 01:11:45.597
- that has gone into this. So some of my comment isn't really directed at you because you took what was

01:11:45.597 --> 01:11:47.102
- given to you and you built

01:11:47.298 --> 01:11:53.148
- the drawing off of it, but I think the one schematic question I have for you all before we get into

01:11:53.148 --> 01:11:59.173
- other conversations with other folks today is if this project had to be phased, where we had to select

01:11:59.173 --> 01:12:05.316
- or prioritize what gets built first based on the budget constraints placed on us by the state of Indiana

01:12:05.316 --> 01:12:11.166
- and of course our own decisions about whether or not to use our tax dollars in this way, is there a

01:12:11.166 --> 01:12:14.910
- way to phase this project and prioritize certain aspects of it?

01:12:15.138 --> 01:12:22.112
- and break it into sections, or design it in a manner where we build what we minimally need to meet ACLU

01:12:22.112 --> 01:12:29.288
- requirements, safety requirements, and then revisit other options over a period of time. So if the project

01:12:29.288 --> 01:12:35.591
- had to be phased, and I know it's a lot riding on the Senate Bill 1 state legislation, to me,

01:12:35.591 --> 01:12:42.901
- and I'll let Garmong Smoot chime in if they feel differently from a cost perspective, or just a construction

01:12:42.901 --> 01:12:44.510
- sequencing perspective,

01:12:44.866 --> 01:12:52.026
- But to me, it seems that phase one would naturally be the sheriff's office in jail. I think that's also

01:12:52.026 --> 01:12:59.117
- the highest priority for the community. With the secondary phase being the justice center, is that not

01:12:59.117 --> 01:13:06.621
- if I answered your question? No, that helps. And these are a solution, not the solution. There are obviously

01:13:06.621 --> 01:13:07.998
- ways to think about

01:13:08.098 --> 01:13:14.392
- the other aspect of co-location here and what that cost really means to the county. I don't think that's

01:13:14.392 --> 01:13:20.626
- the county council's job to explain to the public the cost of co-location. It's really the offices that

01:13:20.626 --> 01:13:26.800
- feel that that's the better solution for taxpayer dollars. But that's not your problem. You were given

01:13:26.800 --> 01:13:33.034
- requirements. You gave us a schematic. You answered my question about what could potentially be phased.

01:13:33.034 --> 01:13:37.470
- Thank you. Thank you. That's a good point. Anybody else? Councilor Welch?

01:13:38.498 --> 01:13:48.901
- This isn't, I have a couple of questions. But the first one is, you mentioned various windows and skylights

01:13:48.901 --> 01:13:58.629
- and the natural light, which I think is fantastic. When someone is in the general population portion

01:13:58.629 --> 01:14:06.046
- of the building, are there any, besides the skylights, are there any windows

01:14:06.146 --> 01:14:13.006
- or any other natural sources of light coming in from the sides? Within the day rooms, no. And one of

01:14:13.006 --> 01:14:19.933
- the primary reasons is because most modern jails, if any of you have toured any of ours or any of our

01:14:19.933 --> 01:14:26.793
- competitors, most of them are built with what we refer to as a perimeter chase that all the plumbing

01:14:26.793 --> 01:14:33.720
- backs up to and that way we can maintain without, do maintenance without having to go into the secure

01:14:33.720 --> 01:14:35.486
- perimeter. So that really

01:14:35.586 --> 01:14:43.419
- It can be done, but it's more costly to add exterior windows, because now you have essentially two walls.

01:14:43.419 --> 01:14:50.808
- We're adding windows in, so it just doubles. So most modern jails, the natural light requirement is

01:14:50.808 --> 01:14:58.567
- achieved by skylights. However, there is, and I know this was brought up and discussed when we presented

01:14:58.567 --> 01:15:04.478
- in February, but rec areas that we refer to as indoor outdoor recreation areas.

01:15:04.770 --> 01:15:11.047
- Where what that is, is there's an insulated overhead coiling door that can raise up. And then there's

01:15:11.047 --> 01:15:17.569
- a security barrier there. It's just an open grating, but they can get natural light, natural ventilation,

01:15:17.569 --> 01:15:24.277
- that type of thing. But it's up high. And that's really what precipitated the conversation back in February.

01:15:24.277 --> 01:15:30.615
- And I think somebody made a comment. You mean I can't, or an inmate can't touch grass? And that's what

01:15:30.615 --> 01:15:32.830
- has precipitated the outdoor wreck.

01:15:33.602 --> 01:15:40.205
- Um, you know, in, in consultation with the transition team operationally, if they so choose to utilize

01:15:40.205 --> 01:15:46.679
- the outdoor rec that we would provide, be providing an evacuation yard, we have made that provision.

01:15:46.679 --> 01:15:50.974
- And would that outdoor rec involve what you're talking about with.

01:15:53.474 --> 01:16:01.928
- sounds like a garage door thing. Yeah, not the outdoor. It's the indoor outdoor. So that's not incorporated

01:16:01.928 --> 01:16:09.521
- in this plan, though, right? No, it is. Yes. It's within the secure perimeter, so it's obscured,

01:16:09.521 --> 01:16:17.348
- so I can't point and show you. No worries then. Got it. Yes. Can I ask one more? And this might not

01:16:17.348 --> 01:16:23.454
- be something that you feel comfortable estimating, but as you're going along,

01:16:23.970 --> 01:16:31.642
- I'm thinking about the staffing levels for specifically the jail side of things and how this design

01:16:31.642 --> 01:16:39.774
- change from our current, which obviously is inefficient already, but how will the staffing levels change?

01:16:39.774 --> 01:16:47.522
- I'm honestly glad you brought that up. I know that this was a topic that was brought up in February,

01:16:47.522 --> 01:16:51.742
- and I think it was Peter in particular that said, hey,

01:16:52.162 --> 01:16:57.856
- in addition to our construction costs, which will eventually go away because the building will eventually

01:16:57.856 --> 01:17:03.281
- be paid off. The cost will never go away as a staffing operation. And you heard Nick previously talk

01:17:03.281 --> 01:17:08.814
- about our next design phase, which is our design development phase. Now that the building is beginning

01:17:08.814 --> 01:17:11.070
- to take shape, our engineers are going to

01:17:11.298 --> 01:17:16.752
- become much more involved in running heating, cooling, calculation loads and sizing equipment.

01:17:16.752 --> 01:17:22.435
- And of course your mechanical equipment dictates your electricity needs and those types of things.

01:17:22.435 --> 01:17:28.578
- So we will be running an operational analysis to give some sense as to how much gas, how much electricity,

01:17:28.578 --> 01:17:34.376
- how much water is anticipated and compare and contrast that to what you're currently spending at the

01:17:34.376 --> 01:17:39.198
- justice center. Now that's just one part of the component. Second part is staffing.

01:17:39.426 --> 01:17:45.501
- So we will also now that these floor plan is beginning to settle down and take shape we're running what

01:17:45.501 --> 01:17:51.576
- we refer to as a staffing analysis to where we can compare and contrast you know every post and compare

01:17:51.576 --> 01:17:55.198
- and contrast that to your existing justice center. Thank you.

01:17:55.298 --> 01:18:02.163
- Yeah. I see Councilor Hawke has pulled her microphone, so that means she has something to say. But before

01:18:02.163 --> 01:18:08.835
- I go to Councilor Hawke, I'll go to Councilor Decker-Hawke. And then I apologize when this meeting was

01:18:08.835 --> 01:18:15.117
- scheduled, I already had a previous thing at one o'clock. So I am going to be leaving here soon,

01:18:15.117 --> 01:18:22.112
- but I will hand it over to Pro Tem Iverson to finish taking over. So thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

01:18:22.112 --> 01:18:24.638
- Thank you very much. I kind of want to

01:18:25.090 --> 01:18:32.773
- follow up to make sure I understand everything I need to understand here. And I appreciate immensely

01:18:32.773 --> 01:18:40.532
- the presentation, seeing the schematics and kind of getting this in my head. I kind of want to follow

01:18:40.532 --> 01:18:48.368
- up on Councilor Henry's question. And help me to make sure I understand it. If the jail sheriff option

01:18:48.368 --> 01:18:54.910
- went in a phase by itself, the approximate cost of something like that were 60 to 80,

01:18:56.002 --> 01:19:02.047
- million plus roughly. We haven't evaluated in that level yet, but it's probably upwards of that.

01:19:02.047 --> 01:19:08.465
- And that's still going to exceed the bonding capability that we can do as a county anyway, because the

01:19:08.465 --> 01:19:14.759
- states basically told us you can't do anything other than buy some bubble gum next Friday, and we're

01:19:14.759 --> 01:19:21.364
- going to double check you on that. Mr. Cockerill, and I'm not going to put you guys on the spot for that,

01:19:21.364 --> 01:19:25.726
- but Mr. Cockerill, I have that right, right? Yeah, I think, you know,

01:19:26.018 --> 01:19:34.140
- and this is part five so if you want me to wait. Can we hold off to make sure other council members

01:19:34.140 --> 01:19:42.343
- have questions? I'm not quite done yet. I guess the last part of this is if and I'm open to any idea

01:19:42.343 --> 01:19:50.302
- that gets us to completion but phasing is still going to extend at a greater cost to my taxpayers

01:19:50.626 --> 01:19:57.503
- construction. So essentially, if my daughter in fifth grade decides she'd like to run for my council

01:19:57.503 --> 01:20:04.653
- seat one day, she hits age and seeks it, she'll be in here figuring out how to get the courts and public

01:20:04.653 --> 01:20:11.462
- defender and prosecutor over there, only she'll be doing that at a much greater cost in amount than

01:20:11.462 --> 01:20:18.748
- what we have now, even at our extended from 2009 timeline. Am I saying this right? Correct. If the project

01:20:18.748 --> 01:20:20.382
- becomes more linear and

01:20:20.738 --> 01:20:27.794
- time frame to do it is the cost is going to increase. And with some exception here or there, maybe,

01:20:27.794 --> 01:20:35.556
- as we talk about it, I haven't seen anything yet that is not a public service entity doing its function. Now,

01:20:35.556 --> 01:20:42.753
- there's some trimming that can always happen. But I'm trying to figure out where, because we had this

01:20:42.753 --> 01:20:49.950
- set last year. We had a correction tax that was well debated. And then one thing I want to point out,

01:20:50.114 --> 01:20:56.795
- voted on that, two members of the council went on the ballot who voted for that, and then they were

01:20:56.795 --> 01:21:04.077
- returned by the electorate. So it's not like we've not had some public accountability on the process we had.

01:21:04.077 --> 01:21:10.825
- It's just we have a state law that has changed, and now it will end up costing us a lot more time to

01:21:10.825 --> 01:21:17.973
- do what we need to do. You all don't have to comment on that. I just, I'm trying. All right, I saw council

01:21:17.973 --> 01:21:19.710
- member Hawke's hand next.

01:21:20.450 --> 01:21:28.840
- it's just a small point while we're looking at additional staffing we have to recognize we have to have

01:21:28.840 --> 01:21:37.230
- more staffing to maintain that large parking lot as well because you know that's that's a lot more than

01:21:37.230 --> 01:21:43.038
- what we would do now so and security needs to be out there not just for

01:21:43.266 --> 01:21:50.010
- people leaving courts, but just in general, a large parking lot, as we all know, can generate some nefarious

01:21:50.010 --> 01:21:56.691
- activities. So I think you have to take that in consideration. Good point. Council Member Henry. Thank you,

01:21:56.691 --> 01:22:03.002
- Mr. President. Yeah, I think we might be bleeding into Section 5 a little bit, but I think it's worth

01:22:03.002 --> 01:22:09.374
- looking at the phasing a little longer. You all constructed the Morgan County Justice Center, correct?

01:22:09.474 --> 01:22:15.124
- which is a standalone facility from their sheriff's and jail facility. And so they're not co-located.

01:22:15.124 --> 01:22:20.885
- And so there is some transport and activities there. I think this gets to Councilor Iverson's question,

01:22:20.885 --> 01:22:26.757
- which is we really do need to understand those other cost models of staffing and what the cost difference

01:22:26.757 --> 01:22:32.020
- between transport versus the cost of co-location is. I appreciate Councilor Deckard's analogy,

01:22:32.020 --> 01:22:37.560
- or at least walking through a version or a version of what costs could look like. Phase two doesn't

01:22:37.560 --> 01:22:39.166
- necessarily have to be a new

01:22:39.714 --> 01:22:44.609
- Justice Center could be working with our partnerships here in Bloomington to keep things downtown.

01:22:44.609 --> 01:22:49.554
- We have plenty of vacant office space. The city bought Showers West that's sitting open and vacant.

01:22:49.554 --> 01:22:54.549
- It could be considered as a possible location to keep things downtown and answer some questions that

01:22:54.549 --> 01:22:59.543
- many in the community have brought about the removal of the legal community from downtown and moving

01:22:59.543 --> 01:23:04.686
- at three miles north of town here. So I think we need to keep in perspective that there are other costs

01:23:04.686 --> 01:23:09.680
- other than the phasing. All of our children, Peter's, myself, Jen's, transfer and be paying for this

01:23:09.680 --> 01:23:15.136
- at this point, regardless of what we do. But I don't want to pontificate here too much to say that the

01:23:15.136 --> 01:23:20.645
- phase one concept and seeing what that can meet our budget or what we can do locally, what is minimally

01:23:20.645 --> 01:23:25.995
- required to be met by the ACLU and other stakeholders, not just the ones that work in that building,

01:23:25.995 --> 01:23:31.345
- but the ones in the community that have grave concerns about whether or not our values are being met

01:23:31.345 --> 01:23:36.801
- with this facility, are all back on the menu since SB1 and the election in November. A lot has changed

01:23:36.801 --> 01:23:38.814
- since then. Thank you, Mr. President.

01:23:39.010 --> 01:23:44.159
- All right, I think council, I'm hearing correctly. We want to move on to the next conversation,

01:23:44.159 --> 01:23:49.844
- but you put a lot of work into this. It's very evident you put hours and hours and hours. You've listened

01:23:49.844 --> 01:23:55.100
- to us and all of our griping. You've tried to meet us where we're at. So that that's appreciated.

01:23:55.100 --> 01:24:00.517
- I want to give you guys the last word. Anything else you want to add at this point before we move on

01:24:00.517 --> 01:24:05.881
- to a financial conversation? Only thing I want to add is you see us as the face up here making this

01:24:05.881 --> 01:24:06.846
- presentation, but

01:24:07.618 --> 01:24:13.286
- that were supported by a host of people back in the office that I kind of jokingly say do the real work

01:24:13.286 --> 01:24:18.737
- so I just want to give them the recognition as well as the recognition of the office and department

01:24:18.737 --> 01:24:24.296
- members the transition team and all the work that they've put into it as well. Excellent thank you so

01:24:24.296 --> 01:24:29.965
- much and just as a reminder for folks watching at home all of the materials we've reviewed this morning

01:24:29.965 --> 01:24:35.742
- are online on the county council's web or on the county's website so please look at this work. Thank you.

01:24:36.450 --> 01:24:43.688
- I want to make a brief comment now, because I don't want it to bleed into the next topic, because I

01:24:43.688 --> 01:24:51.142
- think it could. What you've seen between February and now with the difference in what it is, is fairly

01:24:51.142 --> 01:24:58.814
- dramatic. It is a dramatic difference from those two. Now, prior to the conversation we're about to have,

01:24:59.042 --> 01:25:04.651
- the expectation is there will still be some minor tweaks and changes as we move forward but it won't

01:25:04.651 --> 01:25:10.260
- be that kind of a dramatic change. I mean we went from a two-floor facility to primarily a one-floor

01:25:10.260 --> 01:25:15.980
- facility so I just kind of want to tell you yeah this is the best guess we have now. I expect there'll

01:25:15.980 --> 01:25:21.645
- be some really minor changes. I know that there's some discussions going on about courtroom space and

01:25:21.645 --> 01:25:27.198
- things like that but I think primarily we don't expect those to necessarily affect the budget a lot

01:25:27.426 --> 01:25:33.023
- but just to kind of make you guys aware that, you know, this is a point where we're at today, you know,

01:25:33.023 --> 01:25:34.046
- when we go to bid.

01:25:34.306 --> 01:25:39.478
- it'll be a little bit different, but not the change we've seen in the last eight months. Good point.

01:25:39.478 --> 01:25:44.598
- Thank you. All right. We're going to move on to the next item on our agenda, but keep in mind after

01:25:44.598 --> 01:25:49.770
- this financial conversation is time for public comment. So get your public comment ready here in the

01:25:49.770 --> 01:25:54.890
- NatU Hill Room. And also for those of you joining us on Teams, when the time comes, I'll ask you to

01:25:54.890 --> 01:25:58.526
- raise your hand on Teams and we'll recognize you when that time comes.

01:25:58.882 --> 01:26:08.139
- I think now we'll transition to a conversation about financing this justice center. And we will begin with Mr.

01:26:08.139 --> 01:26:16.563
- Jeff Cockrell, who has worked, again, put in a lot of hours on this as well. So can you kind of lead

01:26:16.563 --> 01:26:21.150
- us off with the numbers you prepared for this meeting?

01:26:21.282 --> 01:26:27.157
- All right, and I will say I did not put a lot of hours into these changes because I just got the information

01:26:27.157 --> 01:26:33.031
- this morning of what the new rates for next year is going to be. Oh, he's humble to. So it was kind of fast.

01:26:33.031 --> 01:26:38.690
- And these numbers have not been reviewed by Financial Solutions Group or any of the other people I would

01:26:38.690 --> 01:26:44.134
- normally have confirmed them before I make them at a public meeting. But this meeting was occurring,

01:26:44.134 --> 01:26:49.523
- and I thought it would be important for you guys to have them. Essentially, in the documents trial,

01:26:49.523 --> 01:26:51.248
- Justice Senator funding updates

01:26:51.248 --> 01:26:58.811
- 8-29-2025. You should have already seen a piece of paper with the first column, the first column of

01:26:58.811 --> 01:27:06.373
- numbers on it except that now it says 2025 lit rates. It was based upon our lit rates for this year

01:27:06.373 --> 01:27:13.936
- and our bonding capacities and things like that and the next the next column is 2026 lit rates. I'm

01:27:13.936 --> 01:27:15.902
- gonna be fully honest and

01:27:16.194 --> 01:27:25.232
- these are all pre SB one thoughts and how we were looking at things. And so I just kind of want to set

01:27:25.232 --> 01:27:33.831
- that as the baseline. You know, we just heard a $224 and a half million dollar project. You know,

01:27:33.831 --> 01:27:42.956
- if we were continuing to go on the, what we had, we would have the capacity to do a $243 million dollar

01:27:42.956 --> 01:27:45.150
- facility. Again, that's,

01:27:45.858 --> 01:27:52.151
- not been audited by anybody that's me putting something on a piece of paper this morning but I but I've

01:27:52.151 --> 01:27:58.323
- been traditionally I've been pretty close so I I'm not saying that that's way off um although that it

01:27:58.323 --> 01:28:04.918
- has to be way off you know that no that's not because because then the next breaks it down with construction

01:28:04.918 --> 01:28:11.030
- budget debt reserve cost of issuance and underwriting kind of what we've seen previously so we would

01:28:11.030 --> 01:28:15.326
- be on pace if it weren't for senate bill one I guess is is is what I'm

01:28:15.810 --> 01:28:21.951
- trying and hoping to convey I guess but at the last long-term finance committee we had our financial

01:28:21.951 --> 01:28:28.274
- advisors advise us on you know kind of what SB 1 has done and it was different than what we had thought

01:28:28.274 --> 01:28:34.354
- but what I thought before that meeting and so I thought it was important that you guys realize this

01:28:34.354 --> 01:28:40.494
- they give three he has three different options and I emailed this out the other day hopefully you've

01:28:40.494 --> 01:28:45.662
- had a chance to look at it or it was presented at that meeting I think on August 1st

01:28:45.826 --> 01:28:52.503
- The first one I really don't like to talk about a whole lot because that is going through a referendum

01:28:52.503 --> 01:28:59.309
- process and putting an additional property tax rate on to the property tax payers. Again, another reason

01:28:59.309 --> 01:29:06.050
- I say I don't want to talk about that is because I can demonstrate that we have enough lit money coming

01:29:06.050 --> 01:29:10.782
- in and that was always the scheme all along. It's an option. I guess the

01:29:12.162 --> 01:29:20.826
- again pre-SB1 we had enough. The second is what we could bond for today with no legislative changes at all.

01:29:20.826 --> 01:29:29.090
- The issues are it's only 25 percent of our current lit rate and discussing it with bond council we can

01:29:29.090 --> 01:29:33.502
- only commit our lit up through 2027 before the kind of

01:29:33.698 --> 01:29:40.048
- grand lit changes occur so that gives us a bonding capacity and his it was 19.3 million dollars.

01:29:40.048 --> 01:29:46.790
- My adjustments is that's a little over 20 million dollars 20.3 million dollars based upon the increase

01:29:46.790 --> 01:29:53.532
- in our current lit rates or not rates but the revenue we expected to receive from our from our current

01:29:53.532 --> 01:29:55.038
- late rate and you know

01:29:55.746 --> 01:30:04.306
- Honestly, I'm not sure we can get much done, if anything at all, if no legislative is changed based

01:30:04.306 --> 01:30:12.523
- upon our ability to raise funding. Yes. Is this a two-year bond that you're talking about? Yes.

01:30:12.523 --> 01:30:20.398
- So it would be, I'm just, so 20,000, but we'd be paying it off in two years? Correct. Okay.

01:30:20.398 --> 01:30:22.110
- So it's 20 million.

01:30:22.210 --> 01:30:29.584
- paid off in two years. Oh, yeah. Deal, Rob. Sorry. Again, that's a decent chunk of change,

01:30:29.584 --> 01:30:38.498
- but it's not the chunk of change we're talking about. And I guess thrown in here is that with the referendum,

01:30:38.498 --> 01:30:47.006
- item one, if we went through that process, that would allow us to utilize the referendum as a tax backup

01:30:47.006 --> 01:30:52.030
- and not necessarily set a tax rate. And then we could utilize

01:30:52.322 --> 01:30:59.540
- lit for our primary payment, and then if something went different than expected in that transition of

01:30:59.540 --> 01:31:06.616
- 28 and beyond, we would have the ability to utilize that property tax backup, but it would still be

01:31:06.616 --> 01:31:13.834
- subject to that referendum process. And just real quick before we go any further, you now see on your

01:31:13.834 --> 01:31:21.406
- screens the information that started Mr. Cockrell's conversation. And Mr. Cockrell, I think if you want to

01:31:22.114 --> 01:31:29.698
- address any of this, and whoever's projecting it, can you please zoom in for those of us with old eyes?

01:31:29.698 --> 01:31:36.408
- I have the youngest old eyes, yeah. And I guess, again, caveat, too, it's not been audited,

01:31:36.408 --> 01:31:43.773
- and I'm not sure if it's true. Essentially, what it says, 2025 lit rates, those are the calculations

01:31:43.773 --> 01:31:48.222
- we were using before SB1 on what we thought we could afford.

01:31:48.450 --> 01:31:56.126
- and then the 2026 later, sorry, there are just those numbers updated by the difference between what

01:31:56.126 --> 01:32:03.494
- we expect at 1% of the rate to collect versus last year versus this year. Council Member Hawke.

01:32:03.494 --> 01:32:11.707
- So as what happens many times with a bond issue that we do, we, the large ones, we back it up with general

01:32:11.707 --> 01:32:17.310
- obligation. However, you're saying this particular one when we would not

01:32:17.410 --> 01:32:26.220
- be able to do it because of the price tag of it without a referendum. So if I'm understanding you right,

01:32:26.220 --> 01:32:28.318
- that means that whatever

01:32:28.770 --> 01:32:35.652
- bonding mechanism will use lease or whatever, we would not be able to back it up with property tax.

01:32:35.652 --> 01:32:43.016
- We've just got the income tax to back it up, which would then cause a higher interest rate. Am I following

01:32:43.016 --> 01:32:50.036
- you? I think you're following, except the reason we can't back it up, it's got nothing to do with the

01:32:50.036 --> 01:32:56.574
- size of the bond. It's got everything to do with that transition in between 27 and 28 on that.

01:32:56.574 --> 01:32:57.950
- We had the revenue.

01:32:58.914 --> 01:33:06.238
- The question is can we will our revenue source, can we reasonably assume that it will cover the cost

01:33:06.238 --> 01:33:13.780
- and be able to pay off the debt over the course of the period of time and given that we're dealing with

01:33:13.780 --> 01:33:17.406
- a with a revenue source that doesn't exist today.

01:33:17.986 --> 01:33:24.597
- is according to bond council we cannot make that determination that that would be reasonable to expect

01:33:24.597 --> 01:33:31.015
- that to be able to do which is why we'd have to go through a referendum process because we couldn't

01:33:31.015 --> 01:33:37.498
- make the statement based upon what we have today we can pay we have we can point the revenue that we

01:33:37.498 --> 01:33:38.910
- feel we will pay this

01:33:39.074 --> 01:33:48.175
- that off and we won't have to use that. Yes, we'd have to do the referendum process to do it that length.

01:33:48.175 --> 01:33:56.932
- It's not really associated with the amount of the bond other than the fact that the current SB1 would

01:33:56.932 --> 01:33:59.422
- not allow for us to do that.

01:33:59.842 --> 01:34:09.156
- I think the end of the day answer is correct. We'd have to go through the referendum. It would be subject

01:34:09.156 --> 01:34:18.118
- to referendum. I'm trying to get the bond council's words correct. Subject to the referendum process,

01:34:18.118 --> 01:34:26.904
- but it's a combination of size and the changes brought on by SB1. And then I guess the final answer

01:34:26.904 --> 01:34:28.222
- is essentially

01:34:28.802 --> 01:34:37.474
- what changes would need to be made for us to be able to utilize the funding that we thought we were

01:34:37.474 --> 01:34:46.492
- going to have moving forward and that would be there really really three different issues. One is we're

01:34:46.492 --> 01:34:55.164
- we're subject to 25% of our lit revenue so we if that got extended and we were able to bond on just

01:34:55.164 --> 01:34:56.638
- the 25% we would

01:34:57.058 --> 01:35:08.868
- be in the range of $126 to $137 million in bonding capacity, which if we spent all our cash in the edit

01:35:08.868 --> 01:35:19.542
- and the corrections would probably be about $160 million projects, give or take a little bit.

01:35:19.542 --> 01:35:24.766
- I didn't have time to do all that math today.

01:35:24.898 --> 01:35:34.024
- So that's if that 25% cap was extended so that we could bond for 20 years based upon that 25% of your

01:35:34.024 --> 01:35:43.687
- lit rate. The second, if we wanted to do, if we got legislation to do the full project, we were looking at,

01:35:43.687 --> 01:35:52.814
- in Mr. Garretaz's presentation on the first, it was a 0.41 rate. 0.41 income tax rate would cover our

01:35:52.814 --> 01:35:54.782
- debt service on this.

01:35:55.010 --> 01:36:01.566
- My calculations based on the increase, it's down a little bit to 0.39 to 0.4, somewhere in that range,

01:36:01.566 --> 01:36:07.931
- but it's still well above the 0.25, right? And so we would need to have them, the state legislature

01:36:07.931 --> 01:36:14.360
- authorizes us in one way or another. I know there are a couple of different mechanisms. The simplest

01:36:14.360 --> 01:36:20.853
- to me is just allow us to use the current rate if we can demonstrate that that rate is reasonable and

01:36:20.853 --> 01:36:24.990
- we're allowed to commit that future revenue source towards that.

01:36:25.410 --> 01:36:32.167
- the rate would be about 0.41 is what we would need to do that. Or there's the special purpose tax,

01:36:32.167 --> 01:36:39.539
- which would be kind of like our juvenile lit, which would be a separate tax from what we currently receive.

01:36:39.539 --> 01:36:46.570
- So it would be an additional tax. And then in 2027, 28, when you guys didn't get the authority to levy

01:36:46.570 --> 01:36:54.078
- the tax and you would have the ability to take that into account as you're setting the rest of the tax rates.

01:36:54.274 --> 01:37:01.527
- My personal feeling as someone who likes math but doesn't like it that much is that if we could just

01:37:01.527 --> 01:37:08.421
- be able to use what we currently have, because in my mind, it's sufficient, at least for today,

01:37:08.421 --> 01:37:15.675
- and we never know what tomorrow is going to bring. And that would continue the plan that we had from

01:37:15.675 --> 01:37:23.646
- last year before the SB1 hit. That would be, in my mind, the peripheral course if we were able to get the full

01:37:24.258 --> 01:37:28.667
- full amount to do the project. All right, Council, that's three options and a lot of numbers. Mr. Henry,

01:37:28.667 --> 01:37:32.867
- I see your hand first. Thank you, Mr. President. I'll keep it brief. So we had the options from FSG

01:37:32.867 --> 01:37:37.360
- in the long-term government finance meeting. Jeff, thank you for walking through those again and providing

01:37:37.360 --> 01:37:40.510
- some numbers. So all three options don't get us where we need to go today.

01:37:40.674 --> 01:37:46.579
- basically, because we have choices to make. Going to the public for a referendum is, democratically speaking,

01:37:46.579 --> 01:37:52.000
- probably the right thing to do for a quarter of a billion dollar project to let the public weigh in.

01:37:52.000 --> 01:37:57.530
- And yet I can appreciate there's heartburn probably even bringing that up, but I think that when we're

01:37:57.530 --> 01:38:03.112
- talking about a project of this size for our county's history, it's not something that they immediately

01:38:03.112 --> 01:38:04.830
- take off the table. Option B is

01:38:04.930 --> 01:38:10.041
- 10 percent or less than 10 percent. Right. We get about 20 million started. It sounds like we pay our

01:38:10.041 --> 01:38:15.353
- fees for what's been done. We level some land out at North Park and we buy it and we're basically waiting

01:38:15.353 --> 01:38:20.314
- at that point. So that doesn't really get us anywhere closer to getting folks out of the building.

01:38:20.314 --> 01:38:25.776
- And I presume puts us into a funnel of well what do we do next once we figure out what the state legislature

01:38:25.776 --> 01:38:31.038
- wants to do. Let me finish. Option three sounds a bit like we're waiting for new legislation and we hope

01:38:31.362 --> 01:38:37.147
- and that after the gerrymandering of the state and they get around to helping us out at some point,

01:38:37.147 --> 01:38:43.511
- I think that that might be wish thinking. So what I hear here today is, and I want to honor again DLZ's work,

01:38:43.511 --> 01:38:45.246
- it is a really great product.

01:38:45.410 --> 01:38:52.478
- that we can't pay for today. And as I heard your math, that if we look at $137 million project,

01:38:52.478 --> 01:39:00.135
- that's 40% off including soft costs. And if we look at 0.41 of the 1.2, that's a third off of the total

01:39:00.135 --> 01:39:07.645
- of this, a third of our tax capability going for 20 years to pay for this project. And those are huge

01:39:07.645 --> 01:39:11.326
- differences from where we were in November of 24.

01:39:11.586 --> 01:39:17.909
- So I think we need to be pragmatic and courageous and sort through this correctly to get to where we

01:39:17.909 --> 01:39:24.294
- need to go. But as I'm hearing it right now, there is no, we're putting a bet on the table and hoping

01:39:24.294 --> 01:39:30.742
- in two years we can continue with the project and unless someone has better foresight than that on how

01:39:30.742 --> 01:39:36.126
- the state legislature is going to work, I'm all ears. I guess maybe if I can, I guess

01:39:36.866 --> 01:39:44.183
- If we, and this is a tough assumption, right? If we assume that the current schedule for lit is going

01:39:44.183 --> 01:39:51.571
- to remain in the 25%, then in 28, I'm using your, I think your scenario where we do what we can today,

01:39:51.571 --> 01:39:58.888
- we level it out and we get the site ready. And then in 28, I think you guys would have the ability to

01:39:58.888 --> 01:40:05.918
- go in and, or you would have the ability to go in and issue a bond that could build the building.

01:40:06.018 --> 01:40:12.721
- The concern in my mind is that I don't know what costs are going to look like in two years.

01:40:12.721 --> 01:40:20.081
- But I'm willing to bet they're going to be higher than they are today. So if we went with 5% a year,

01:40:20.081 --> 01:40:26.857
- you're talking $20, $30 million, which is a lot. It could be used to put people elsewhere in

01:40:26.857 --> 01:40:33.342
- some alternatives and to think through some alternatives. $30 million is a lot of money.

01:40:34.434 --> 01:40:45.034
- All right, other council members have any thoughts? This is a lot. This is a lot of information.

01:40:45.034 --> 01:40:55.416
- It's a heavy topic with a lot of change and it's just, this is hard. That in uncertainty, yes.

01:40:55.416 --> 01:41:04.158
- Council member Hawke, I'm sorry. Right now, we are looking at buying North Park

01:41:05.090 --> 01:41:14.624
- That's not a done deal. And it includes a caveat that we co-locate within a certain period of time.

01:41:14.624 --> 01:41:24.444
- So I don't know how we close on North Park, on the purchase of North Park, or how we even move forward

01:41:24.444 --> 01:41:33.310
- because unless that offer to purchase changes. I think the offer to purchase is still there.

01:41:33.442 --> 01:41:40.210
- I think we are, I think it needs an additional appropriation by the county council. So you guys will

01:41:40.210 --> 01:41:47.246
- have to review that because we had earmarked the edit ban money for that purchase and the purchase price

01:41:47.246 --> 01:41:54.416
- was more than the edit ban amount was. So there's an additional appropriation that's going to be required.

01:41:54.416 --> 01:41:58.302
- And so I think that's the time to have that conversation.

01:41:59.234 --> 01:42:07.170
- The document does not say we have to co-locate in order for us to purchase and begin building.

01:42:07.170 --> 01:42:14.856
- It says we have to have the courts underbid before we utilize the jail for housing inmates.

01:42:14.856 --> 01:42:23.210
- So there is a difference there. What does that mean? I mean, does that mean all eight? Does it mean

01:42:23.210 --> 01:42:28.222
- all the courts? Or what does that mean? I mean, that can't.

01:42:29.602 --> 01:42:38.222
- That's an ass on there, so it's got to be more than one. Yeah. Certainly, it does not mean public defender,

01:42:38.222 --> 01:42:46.203
- prosecutor, clerk. And I don't want to come across and say that those groups hasn't. When we talked

01:42:46.203 --> 01:42:54.504
- about co-location in the past, the courts and the sheriff and those groups, they were fairly persuasive

01:42:54.504 --> 01:42:58.654
- on why co-locations is important, right? One topic.

01:42:59.106 --> 01:43:09.267
- That's great. I would encourage you to talk to them about that and get their thoughts because they were

01:43:09.267 --> 01:43:19.331
- persuasive a year ago and two years ago on why that's important. So given that, but the agreement does

01:43:19.331 --> 01:43:28.222
- not include all of the justice related components. It says the jail will not be open until

01:43:28.386 --> 01:43:35.561
- bids are out for the courts or accepted for the courts, one of those two. All right. If there are no

01:43:35.561 --> 01:43:42.736
- other counselors that want to make comment at this point, the public is here. Mr. Deckard. I want to

01:43:42.736 --> 01:43:49.911
- hear from the public, but I do want to say this. I think we have to be very cautious as a council in

01:43:49.911 --> 01:43:57.086
- not sending a reverse message to Indianapolis or legislators that are watching this or anything that

01:43:57.186 --> 01:44:02.562
- We just might be, well, maybe give up on the original plan that we actually adopted and that we don't

01:44:02.562 --> 01:44:07.885
- want to do, that maybe we're just going to sit on the side of the road and not do it. We had a plan,

01:44:07.885 --> 01:44:13.208
- and then things changed. We're not bumbling Keystone cops. I said this the other night in a meeting.

01:44:13.208 --> 01:44:18.743
- Sometimes there's a narrative, oh, Monroe County can't find the light switch. We found the light switch.

01:44:18.743 --> 01:44:24.277
- We were heading towards it. We've employed very strong individuals. We've taken public comment a million

01:44:24.277 --> 01:44:27.070
- times on this project. We've listened to counselors.

01:44:27.170 --> 01:44:34.753
- input we've responded to that we've listened to our multiple units input and that will continue to happen

01:44:34.753 --> 01:44:42.050
- towards an effort for cost down. But to me if there was an onus put on anyone it would be our friends

01:44:42.050 --> 01:44:49.204
- elsewhere in the legislature who would look at this and say you know we've got a county that cannot

01:44:49.204 --> 01:44:51.422
- move forward on a plan that it

01:44:51.522 --> 01:44:57.680
- it was responding to and doing. I don't want people to think, oh, there they are. They're fighting again.

01:44:57.680 --> 01:45:03.024
- They can't find their key ring. And the reality is we know this has got to get done, right?

01:45:03.024 --> 01:45:08.891
- We know that it has to happen for whatever cause it is that you have. If it's constitutional care in

01:45:08.891 --> 01:45:14.817
- the jail that you care about and you're not actually someone in that jail, it is your job to advocate

01:45:14.817 --> 01:45:18.302
- for people having the best conditions while they're in that

01:45:18.402 --> 01:45:24.860
- in that circumstance. If it's our folks, it's the ease by which both a prosecutor and a public defender

01:45:24.860 --> 01:45:31.070
- access a courts, which then accesses those who are in the system. So all those things play into it.

01:45:31.070 --> 01:45:37.653
- And I don't want anyone up north or elsewhere who might sheepishly be watching this. Oh, they're fighting

01:45:37.653 --> 01:45:43.614
- again to think that we are sitting on the side of the road. We had a plan. Let us run our plan.

01:45:44.002 --> 01:45:51.203
- And, you know, or give us a better option, but my gosh, counties who are local, cities who are local,

01:45:51.203 --> 01:45:58.544
- townships who are local, fire departments, they have got to have the ability to do what they do because

01:45:58.544 --> 01:46:05.886
- we are the closest form of government. And that cannot get lost in the shuffle. Thank you, Mr. Deckard.

01:46:06.370 --> 01:46:12.522
- We will now move to public comments. You will have three minutes. Please come up to any one

01:46:12.522 --> 01:46:19.075
- of the microphones, either at the table. I don't know if the microphone on the podium is working,

01:46:19.075 --> 01:46:25.896
- but there's lots of spots at the table here in the NatU Hill Room. And if you're joining us on Teams,

01:46:25.896 --> 01:46:33.052
- raise your hand. We will alternate between folks in the NatU Hill Room talking and folks on Teams talking.

01:46:33.052 --> 01:46:33.854
- So if there

01:46:34.210 --> 01:46:42.487
- We, I'm noticing that an individual is coming forth in that new Hill Room. If you could please state

01:46:42.487 --> 01:46:50.847
- your name for the record, you have three minutes. Oh, TSD, you're on it. Thank you. Hello, my name is

01:46:50.847 --> 01:46:59.943
- Lee Gruntheifer. I have some comments that I wrote down here because it's difficult for me to speak in public.

01:46:59.943 --> 01:47:02.238
- Who pays for this new jail?

01:47:03.362 --> 01:47:11.053
- who pays for it. Traditionally, the people who live in a place own property and therefore pay property taxes,

01:47:11.053 --> 01:47:17.836
- which are used for capital projects. Right. I own property, I pay property tax, capital project.

01:47:17.836 --> 01:47:24.828
- The jail is definitely, and the justice system, definitely a capital project. The local income tax,

01:47:24.828 --> 01:47:32.030
- which we refer to as LIT, which is paid by people who live in and have jobs in this county, is newish.

01:47:32.674 --> 01:47:41.860
- You know, newish. And fluctuation issues are still being worked out with this new tax. Why is the state

01:47:41.860 --> 01:47:50.339
- of Indiana shifting the tax burden from the owners of property to the workers of a county? Why?

01:47:50.339 --> 01:47:59.261
- Is it because people who live here can't afford to buy property here? Or is it because investors own

01:47:59.261 --> 01:48:01.822
- property here? I don't know.

01:48:03.490 --> 01:48:12.767
- Is it because of the unstable nature of LIT that the fiscal or the fiscal irresponsibility of county

01:48:12.767 --> 01:48:22.687
- council bodies across Indiana that has caused the Senate enacted Bill 1 to place these restrictions on LIT?

01:48:22.687 --> 01:48:30.494
- I mean, we have to understand that hopefully the state isn't just stupid and they've

01:48:30.818 --> 01:48:38.497
- put these restrictions on county council bodies for reasons. And we know one of the reasons,

01:48:38.497 --> 01:48:47.083
- we know that with Senate enacted Bill 1, property taxes revenue will go down. The reduction of property

01:48:47.083 --> 01:48:54.679
- tax funds in this county will impact main services provided by the county such as roads and

01:48:54.679 --> 01:48:57.982
- health department. It seems clear to me

01:48:58.306 --> 01:49:06.033
- and by design that the future of lit revenue will need to be used to supplement the county budget.

01:49:06.033 --> 01:49:13.839
- For mainline services, the capital project needs to be scrapped, in my opinion, due to the changing

01:49:13.839 --> 01:49:21.800
- revenue basis and the uncertainty of the political climate. Thank you. All right. Looking on teams to

01:49:21.800 --> 01:49:24.766
- see if anybody has raised their hand.

01:49:25.282 --> 01:49:34.618
- I don't see any hands raised, so we will return to the NETU Hill Room. Please come forward. The floor

01:49:34.618 --> 01:49:41.758
- is yours for three minutes. Sorry, I also have things written down because...

01:49:41.922 --> 01:49:46.787
- Okay, I'm going to try to keep this under three minutes. Hi, my name is Kathleen Paquette. I've been

01:49:46.787 --> 01:49:51.844
- a resident of Monroe County for 23 years. I'm a small business owner. I'm partnered with a public school

01:49:51.844 --> 01:49:56.324
- teacher, and I volunteer with a few different organizations in various capacities, including

01:49:56.324 --> 01:50:01.574
- doing legislative research with Hoosier Action. So consequently, I'm very aware of the financial constraints

01:50:01.574 --> 01:50:03.934
- placed on us as a result of property tax reform.

01:50:04.386 --> 01:50:10.014
- as well as generally decreased funding coming down from the federal level for all manner of public goods

01:50:10.014 --> 01:50:15.748
- and services. I have many, many concerns about this proposed project. I believe everyone currently present

01:50:15.748 --> 01:50:21.269
- here likely all agree that all of the people who are currently incarcerated in our county jail and who

01:50:21.269 --> 01:50:26.629
- work in that building deserve better than they have. I'm not convinced, however, that this proposed

01:50:26.629 --> 01:50:29.630
- project will lead to better outcomes for our community.

01:50:30.338 --> 01:50:37.138
- First, while I recognize that city and county government are very, very different, I'm noticing a pattern

01:50:37.138 --> 01:50:43.554
- happening with our government-owned buildings. They all seem to be leaking and have mold. Buildings

01:50:43.554 --> 01:50:49.776
- require maintenance. The Charlotte Zetlo Justice Building that we're currently using is not old.

01:50:49.776 --> 01:50:55.486
- 40 years is very young for a building. My house is older than that. I'm older than that.

01:50:56.386 --> 01:51:04.214
- The current building has not been properly cared for. It is a responsibility of the county commission

01:51:04.214 --> 01:51:11.811
- to maintain our county-owned buildings. What's done is done. We're here to discuss moving forward.

01:51:11.811 --> 01:51:19.485
- But that doesn't mean we don't learn lessons or atone for the past. The plan presented today covers

01:51:19.485 --> 01:51:26.238
- construction costs. There's been some mention of the $11 million price tag on the land.

01:51:26.498 --> 01:51:32.950
- a little bit of discussion about increased operating costs. And also, there is maintenance on a larger

01:51:32.950 --> 01:51:39.340
- building with a larger footprint with land and a large parking lot. Currently, the city maintains the

01:51:39.340 --> 01:51:45.479
- nearby parking garage for the Justice Building that we're in. There's no landscaping to speak of.

01:51:45.479 --> 01:51:51.868
- If we are currently unable to fix leaking pipes in the building we have, why should we as a community

01:51:51.868 --> 01:51:54.750
- trust that there are resources moving forward

01:51:54.850 --> 01:52:01.248
- to landscape a sprawling complex, snow plow a giant parking lot. The reality is that we have fewer resources

01:52:01.248 --> 01:52:07.236
- moving forward thanks to our state and federal government. I do not think it is fair or reasonable to

01:52:07.236 --> 01:52:13.165
- ask the people who live and pay taxes in and care about this community to trust that we will somehow

01:52:13.165 --> 01:52:19.152
- find both the will and the resources to do better with less. I have many more concerns, some of which

01:52:19.152 --> 01:52:24.670
- I'll list quickly in the interest of time. Moving out of our city center affects our economy.

01:52:24.802 --> 01:52:31.828
- We're moving all kinds of necessary public resources from traffic courts to marriage licenses to early

01:52:31.828 --> 01:52:38.786
- voting and making them inaccessible except for by car. I personally have a concern that I don't think

01:52:38.786 --> 01:52:45.743
- is unreasonable in our current environment of potentially empty beds being commandeered by people who

01:52:45.743 --> 01:52:53.110
- would frankly not like nothing better to come and to own the libs in Bloomington by commandeering potential

01:52:53.110 --> 01:52:54.270
- detention space.

01:52:54.402 --> 01:53:01.251
- Just building a capacity with more beds assumes increased incarceration. And we have a declining population.

01:53:01.251 --> 01:53:07.661
- We have a steady decline in violent crime. I'm sorry, am I out of time? Real quick, I'm just going to

01:53:07.661 --> 01:53:14.322
- say that we have an opportunity to be a community that invests in care and services. And what's happening

01:53:14.322 --> 01:53:20.982
- on a national level is, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry I'm out of time. This is a microcosm of what's happening

01:53:20.982 --> 01:53:22.302
- on a national level.

01:53:22.402 --> 01:53:29.658
- invest in care rather than locking people away. Thank you for your time. All right, looking for other

01:53:29.658 --> 01:53:36.773
- folks that wish to make public comments. I'm looking on Teams. Please raise your hand if you'd like

01:53:36.773 --> 01:53:43.958
- to discuss this very important topic. Seeing none, I'm looking back in that you Hill room. The floor

01:53:43.958 --> 01:53:45.950
- is yours for three minutes.

01:54:03.362 --> 01:54:09.197
- Good afternoon, my name is Seth much lower resident of Monroe County. I today I'm actually going to

01:54:09.197 --> 01:54:15.266
- not speak to you, the council, because I feel like you've all been very gracious in hearing me you know

01:54:15.266 --> 01:54:16.958
- where I stand on this issue.

01:54:17.186 --> 01:54:23.140
- I'm not going to speak to you, DLZ, today because I noted that you had stakeholder outreach, but I did

01:54:23.140 --> 01:54:29.383
- not receive any meetings to any public discussions that you had just with members of the justice community,

01:54:29.383 --> 01:54:35.164
- nor was I made aware of any meetings with folks with lived experience of incarceration. I'm instead

01:54:35.164 --> 01:54:37.534
- going to speak to members of the public.

01:54:37.634 --> 01:54:44.573
- Today's age of rising authoritarianism and fascism, in our age of black and brown folks being rounded

01:54:44.573 --> 01:54:51.852
- up and detained indefinitely, in an age of social service agencies being seriously worried whether they'll

01:54:51.852 --> 01:54:59.404
- be in operation this time next year, in an age where it is just every day harder and harder to make ends meet.

01:54:59.404 --> 01:55:05.118
- If you are out there and you feel that our county needs to be prioritizing housing,

01:55:05.346 --> 01:55:12.179
- mental health treatment, substance use treatment, food security, and just making it easier to be a resident

01:55:12.179 --> 01:55:18.949
- in Monroe County, if you feel that instead of building a new mega jail, you are not alone in that feeling.

01:55:18.949 --> 01:55:25.086
- There are many people who feel that the priorities of this county are going seriously off track.

01:55:25.538 --> 01:55:32.195
- And so I would invite anybody who feels this way or is just curious to learn more and is sort of like, hmm,

01:55:32.195 --> 01:55:38.853
- yeah, this doesn't add up to please join Care Not Cages. We are hosting an informational session on Sunday,

01:55:38.853 --> 01:55:45.140
- September 14th at 2 p.m. at the Monroe County Public Library Auditorium. We will be discussing what's

01:55:45.140 --> 01:55:48.222
- really going on with incarceration in our county.

01:55:48.514 --> 01:55:55.897
- What are the alternatives that aren't building a new $225 million jail and how to get involved in setting

01:55:55.897 --> 01:56:03.070
- the county back on track? Thank you. Thank you for your public comments. The mic is open if you'd like

01:56:03.070 --> 01:56:10.453
- to make public comment. I'm looking on Teams and not seeing any hands. I'm looking in the NatU Hill Room.

01:56:10.453 --> 01:56:14.910
- I'm also not seeing anyone come forward. Give it a moment here.

01:56:17.986 --> 01:56:24.340
- All right. Before we adjourn this meeting, I will remind everyone that the county commissioners meet

01:56:24.340 --> 01:56:30.695
- on Thursdays. The county council meets on Tuesdays. If you go to IN.gov slash counties slash Monroe,

01:56:30.695 --> 01:56:37.049
- you'll find a calendar with links to all of our meetings. You can join virtually as well as agendas.

01:56:37.049 --> 01:56:43.340
- We will continue talking about this very important topic. And the last thing I'll note is if you go

01:56:43.340 --> 01:56:47.870
- to the county council's website, all of our phone numbers are on there.

01:56:48.194 --> 01:56:54.846
- All of our emails are on there. Call us, email us. We work for you. This meeting is adjourned.