all right ladies and gentlemen thank you for joining us today this is the county council special work
session agenda uh it is friday august 29th 2025 uh we do have a quorum of council so i'm going to call
this meeting to order uh with us today we have uh david henry council member marty council member david
henry council member marty hawke council member liz fidel council member trent dekert
Councilmember Kate Wilts is walking in and Councilmember Jen Crossley is finding parking, so she'll
be with us momentarily, but she asked that we start the meeting. This meeting is called to order. You
can find today's agenda as well as everything Council is going to be looking at on the website for Monroe
County under the calendar
session today. So for those of you who are joining us virtually or here in the NatU Hill Room,
you can find everything that we're going to be looking at online. So thank you for that transparency. Next,
we'll go to adoption of the agenda. Are there any additions or changes to today's agenda? Go ahead, yeah.
Mr. President, I have an amendment for the agenda today. I'd like to move up the council comment to
section two and then have everything proceed after.
All right, we have a motion on the floor. Is there a second? Yeah. All right, we have a motion to move
council comment to item number, with the new item number two. Any comments about this?
Try item two, above the recap, yeah. The adoption of the agenda, yeah. New three? New three, there we go.
Correct, yeah, it would be the new number three. Gotcha. The rest of them would change as well then.
And I would just like to say that that would, actually that's fine. Is there any other comments? All right.
There was a second, yeah. All those in favor? Aye.
All right, all those opposed? All right, any other changes to today's agenda? I would also add another
section for a presentation of fiscal information, which that would happen directly after the discussion
of the jail project. Second. Okay, any questions? Tell me the name of that new line again.
That would be right after item number four, so the new number five. And that would be a discussion on
justice center funding. Thank you. All right. Any more conversation? All those in favor, please say aye.
Aye. All those opposed? The ayes have it. All right. We are going to move on to the new number three now,
which is council comments.
Council members, who would like, oh, we have Jennifer Crossley in the room, which means I get to stop talking.
Oh, all right, I got it. All right, we are on council comments. So we had moved that up to the new number
three. So council members, do you have anything to say to kick off today's exciting conversation about
the Justice Center?
I think Madam President is taking over the meeting now. Thank you. Thank you everybody for being here.
Thanks for amending the agenda. I'd like to start with just a little bit of time at the front end for
us to take stock of where we are at this meeting after it's been about six months since we've had a
conversation publicly about this project.
get council feedback about the ramifications of Senate Bill 1 and its adoption as SCA 1 and what that's
meant for the county. We started off this project, of course, with the previous council and some decisions
leading up to the election in 2024. Elections happen.
legislation changes, and we're facing a very different fiscal environment. And I think before we really
get into the marrow of the presentation today, I would be interested in fellow councilors' comments
about the impact of that bill on how we're approaching our conversation today. But it's, I think,
a reasonable place to start. And I apologize for my tardiness, but does anybody else have any comments?
Councilor Decker?
I didn't come prepared to offer these comments, but I will just say that anyone watching our budget
sessions can already see the impact of what's happening. I hope that folks in Indianapolis are watching
this closely because I can't get through a day without one of our local government units that are not
necessarily county contacting me and saying,
Let me paraphrase. I feel like the state has slit our throat and wants us to go walking around providing
services. Yeah, that's what happened. Now, here's the deal. As I look at an audience that includes public
servants, it includes court reporters, it includes administrators, it includes jailers, it includes
Law enforcement personnel includes a lot of people, right? I'm not getting them all. They still have
to go about doing their job. And so I remain committed that we in local government do everything we
absolutely can to keep operations going because sometime tonight at 10 o'clock someone will call for
an ambulance and they won't want to hear
Well, SEA, one, two, three, or senator, or minority leader, majority, whatever, they don't care about
any of that. They want their service. And so on this project, I think we've had an eventful week where
we see a lot more of that need in that building. And so that's kind of where I fall. And I am probably
eternally optimistic and probably fall asleep for that. But my dad taught me you got to do the work
that you have, then you rest.
Ironically, I never seem to get to the rest. We don't have time for our rest, and I think that we need
all the help we can get. Thank you. Anybody else want to make comment before we proceed? I want to before
we're through. Go ahead, go down the aisle. All right, so Council Hawk, and then I'll go, and then we
got to move on.
Right, I for one am grateful that the state listened to the people of this great county and the state
and said, look, we hear you. We think that there are some need to make sure that we change the way taxes
are going to be collected and opposed, whether it's going to be in property tax or income tax. And therefore
was the reason for the change
in how much we could use for a debt because they said we could only use 25 percent of the fund for this
income fund for the total for debt and now that could change when we get into 2028 because this council
will be more in control of the entire income tax money coming into the county
but right now we are tied at 25%. Some people are saying that sounds like plenty. And when we started out,
remember the first numbers we got, I think it said like 70 million and then we thought that was a lot
and it was like, well, no, it's gonna be another 70 million to co-locate. And now we've gone from 70
plus 70 now up to, I mean, who knows where we are now because it keeps changing with us. However,
We did ask for information from our attorney as to how much that 25% would allow us to bond and would
he be allowed to present that so that would be a part of my presentation for the public to see and hear.
So from my understanding that is what council just amended to add to the agenda before
I walked in, so it sounds like that is going to happen. Right. And I want to say further that this is
not my first rodeo. We tried to do a jail, the county did, out on the Thompson property. And everybody,
the courts, the sheriff, everybody was, yay, we're doing it. And it fell apart because people just kept
adding on to the cost, adding on to what their wish list was until the price was out of control.
And at the same time, we had businesses downtown saying, do not move out of downtown. So that's where we are.
Just for those people who weren't around for all of that discussion, that's where we are now.
And so now they're saying, oh, let's take this
whole problem over toward Ellsville. I've already said that's not where Ellsville and my district want
it and so I won't be supporting this simply because of the location but if we change the location my
vote might change. Councilor Everson. Thank you I'm much more interested in hearing DLZ speak today
so I'm going to be very very brief.
Number one, I don't think we can let today go by without acknowledging that the mold crisis in the existing
justice complex has heightened the urgency for us to do something. We know that the Sheriff's Office
took appropriate measures to keep the inmates safe. And we know that our other colleagues in the Justice
Building have been in a lot of conversations
with us about the health effects of working in that building. That plays directly in today's conversation
in the different talks that we've been having. The second thing that we need to talk about is substance
use disorder treatment and mental health treatment. We need to keep that the forefront of these
conversations. I'm not gonna belabor that because I could feel like I could give a multi-hour lecture on this.
And then the last thing that I wanna talk about is
that Council Member Hawke is absolutely correct. These projects are known for just growing and growing
and ballooning and ballooning. We need to keep our eyes on operational costs. I talked about this before,
in particular staffing. If we're going to build a bigger building, we're going to have to have more
people working in there and we need to keep our eyes on that as the fiscal body. Thank you Madam President.
And the only thing I'll add to that too is the fact that I'm annoyed at the fact that we're sitting
here in 2025 talking about something that was brought forth to the county as a whole nearly 18 years ago.
I'm annoyed that previous folks that were in positions allowed this to continue to go further and allow
these prices to continue to go up because nothing has changed except for the prices. However,
Given the annoyance that I have with this, we got to do something. And as Councilor Iverson said,
and as we learned last week from listening to those that work in the justice building, we need to have
a plan and we have to have some. Because we are one catastrophic move from us having to deal with this
in an immediate instance. We've already seen, as Councilor Iverson suggests, or talked about the sheriff
and his staff,
making moves and changing things around day in and day out we all do not have to be in that building
but folks that are in the back have to be in that building and we have to come up with the plan and
we need to do so and we need to stop talking about it and we need to do it. That being said we also
need to make sure that we're doing things within our means.
we point blank period. That's the tweet, that's the post, that's all of it. So that's what I wanna say
with that. It's annoying that we are sitting here still talking about things. I've been on council now
for four years and I feel like I've been in the same spot that we've been in since I stepped in on the
scene since December of 2021. So although this is not my first rodeo either, I want this to be my last
so we can stop talking about it and get to doing things. And so we can move forward.
So that being said, next up we'll go to the recap from DOZ and WGS. So I'd like to invite those folks
to come to the microphone and go forward. Good morning. Morning. I can still technically say that.
I have about 15 minutes.
So if I fail to mention this towards the end of the meeting, I hope everybody has a very nice three-day
holiday weekend coming up. I know I'm looking forward to it. So before you, you will see two different
documents. The one that looks like this, a NAFTA 11, this is our full schematic design report.
This is not this 100 and some odd page document. This is not what I'm presenting today. This is a summary
of the schematic design report.
So starting off, Council Member Henry, I think it was you that mentioned like six months ago was kind
of when we had our last meeting in a similar format. So back in February, we presented the pre-design
phase where we went through the site layout and floor plans, budgets, timelines, those types of things.
A lot of the information that you're going to see here today, it's the same content.
but you'll see much more detail and refinement. And that's just the natural progression of the design process.
So as a good segue then, if you turn the page and you look at this, this isn't just an explanation of
kind of how a project moves through from conception all the way through to completion. So we've had
our kickoff meeting.
And as I just mentioned, back in February, we completed our pre-design phase. That formally put us into
the schematic design phase, which is the first of the three primary design phases of a project.
So we're here today to present the schematic design package. After that will come design development.
And then the final design phase is the construction document phase. Each design phase builds upon the other.
And the final construction document phase, think of it like blueprints. That's where you see, you know,
the hard dimensions and details, and that's what contractors will ultimately bid from, which is a segue
to the next box, which is the bidding and award phase. And that's really where the DLZ Wedelgarmong
Smoot team, we kind of switch seats and Wedelgarmong Smoot will then kind of move into the driver's
seat and DLZ will support them.
similarly for the construction administration phase, and then transition and occupancy. One thing I
want to point out is down here at the bottom, you'll see stakeholder outreach. So there have been multiple,
multiple meetings with the individual stakeholders, the department heads, their representatives,
the transition team, in developing what we're presenting here today. I can't
give this presentation without giving them multiple thanks. They're always very accommodating and very
understanding. And some of the conversations we've had, especially when we run some preliminary budget
numbers and we realize we need to cut some scope to cut the cost, they're understanding that those are
tough conversations to have, but we've had those conversations and they've participated throughout the
whole process. So if you turn the page,
Then just an image over here of the actual schematic design report. And I've highlighted the information
that's in this report. Now, the information that's contained here, this was the information that was
provided to Weligar Mong Smut back, I think, end of July, beginning of August, that they began their
cost estimating process. But the items that are highlighted with the double asterisks, those are the items
that you're gonna see in more detail in this presentation. So first is the executive summary.
So in this executive summary, you will see what we refer to as base bid, and you'll see some items,
and I'll explain this, that we refer to as alternate bid. For the base bid scope of work,
the total gross square footage is approximately 237,161 gross square feet. Now this is for the sheriff's
office in jail and the justice center. And then underneath of that, you'll see an alternate gross square
footage summary. And what that is is we have four day rooms in particular that we're proposing just
to shell out as part of the base bid, similar to what some of you have seen at Hamilton County.
You can always come in on bid day if bids are received favorably, and then you can elect to finish out
those additional day rooms for the additional beds, or you can do it at any time in the future,
and we'll design it such that you can get modular cells in those day rooms to do that if that's the case.
But the rated bed summary for the general population is a total of 296 beds. Of that 296 beds,
There's a total of 48 that are dedicated within the general population housing area dedicated to mental
health. And that's really more of a step down unit. And I'll explain that and compare and contrast that
in just a moment. Underneath of that, you see the medical and mental health. And you can see the breakdown
between the male and female. Now this is more of our acute medical mental health area. And there's a
total of 60 beds. So those are in addition to the 48 step down unit
as far as in the general population. In holding, which is our, we call it the intake area, there's a
total of 20 rated beds. And inmate workers, the dormitory setting for both male and female adds an additional
28 beds. If you add those numbers together, there's 404 beds in the base bed. Then below that,
this is the alternate bed that I was referring to where we would, you know, shell the space,
similar to Hamilton County,
we've done this on multiple projects as well where four additional day rooms could be built out either
on bid day if bids are received favorably or at any point in the future that adds a total of 96 additional
beds for the 500 rated bed facility. Also just want to make sure I think this is understood but just
to make sure
The base bid includes the sheriff's office and jail, the 404 rated beds, the justice center,
which is comprised of the courts, probation, community corrections, clerk, prosecutor, which includes
child support and criminal, public defender, and then of course, court security. And then I've already
mentioned the ultimate bid items. So next,
is a site layout plan. Now, I'm going to take a break here for just a moment and kind of refresh everybody
from our February meeting where we presented the pre-design phase. If you were to compare and contrast
the site layout plan and kind of the building concept, if you recall, the pre-design phase,
it kind of included kind of a bent, kind of a boomerang-shaped configuration. And when we had
that presentation, there were comments
and some concern regarding elevators and if you recall somebody behind my back I don't know who it was
but in February commented and said elevators from hell and I know the history of the elevators in the
Justice Center. There was also some concern regarding a tunnel and transporting inmates from the jail
over to the courts area. So after that February meeting
I went home and started thinking and several of us did and we went back into the office and we pulled
two or three people that had had no prior experience with this Monroe County project just to get a fresh
perspective. So from that we generated three what we kind of coined as just taking another look. So
we had three alternative kind of concepts that we then presented to the commissioners
Also, each of the department heads just kind of reimagined how this building might be put together.
From that meeting, there was a clear winner between those three. So that is the scheme that we further
developed, which is what you're going to see here today. So from February, in listening to some of the
comments from that meeting, we took a step back, reimagined how the building might come together to
address those comments and concerns to what you're gonna see here today.
So with me today is Nick Francesconi. He's our site LA civil guy. He's responsible for a lot of the
site graphics. So I'm gonna let him talk about that here in just a moment. But first of all,
in the bottom right hand or bottom left hand corner, this is just an aerial view of the site, the North
Park site. North is facing up and you can see it's sort of at the intersection of I-69 and State Road 46.
Thanks, Scott, for the introduction. Thank you for the opportunity to present this to you today.
I guess we'll just start here at the main entrance where we'll have a new public road as part of the
overall project development that will give us access immediately down into our visitor parking area.
One thing I should note is at that new public road, we'll have monument sign there to identify the site,
probably the sheriff, other information about the building.
We'll probably likely have another monument sign at the intersection of 46 and Hunter Valley Road. Sorry,
it's more of a wayfinding piece. Do I have to scoot it to me? Okay, perfect.
Almost immediately after turning onto that public road, you'll have the opportunity to turn down onto
one of the two access points into the visitor parking lot. If you proceed further south on that public road,
you'll have another opportunity to access that public parking lot, visitor parking specifically.
It's more of a loop drive, and that gives you the opportunity to include a bus stop down there,
which will serve primarily inmate release.
And then if you move further along towards the front of the building, there's the opportunity there
for drop off and loading for visitors to the site. The visitor parking lot is approximately 180 parking
spaces with the opportunity for additional future parking if needed. The entry plaza, sort of a monumental
plaza there in the front of the building will have security bollards,
flag poles, some different paving material to identify that main entrance and different seating opportunities
there. A second point of entry into the site will be directly off of Hunter Valley Road, providing access
to the justice staff parking. That will be a secured access point of entry with barrier arms for only
personnel to enter that.
drive. That justice parking has 260 parking spaces, 60 of those will be secured in fencing.
Another aspect of that secured parking is this opaque precast concrete wall that will screen that parking
area from Hunter Valley Road. If you continue moving along that
back access drive, there's opportunity there for service utility area, and then maintenance parking.
I think there's 10 spaces there for maintenance staff. Around the back of the building, if you continue
along that access drive, will allow the access to the justice center, I'm sorry, to the sheriff's office
and to the jail, also providing access to the Sally port.
We go back a slide, please. Thank you. There are 200 spaces in that secured Sheriff's Office and jail
parking lot. I think about 10 to 12 of those will be designated for impound vehicles. Or equipment. As a bus.
continues through the Sallyport. They'll have the opportunity to exit directly back onto that main public
road there and exit. The site. Just the South Sallyport shuttle in May shuttle. Yeah, so through that
Sheriff's Office Park Angel 99% of the time it's going to be patrol cars, you know going in know with
the arresting officer and they.
at Reste. We always size our vehicle Sally ports in the event that you have to do an evacuation or say
you have a DOC bus or something like that coming in. We size our vehicle Sally ports to accommodate
a bus in length. One other important aspect of the site is that there's probably about 50 feet of fall
from west to east. And so as you'll see on the site plan, there are some retaining walls we're thinking
we'll try to use to reduce costs, just in situ limestone walls, kind of create a flat area for the building
and all the site amenities. We have storm basins identified in a few locations around the site.
If there's anything else. Yeah. So just a couple other things to point out is this area back here that's
currently labeled as evacuation yard. That's also our future expansion. Hopefully not in my lifetime.
If you ever had to add on and add beds to this facility, we are preserving that area for a future addition.
Also as part of the February 27th pre-design presentation, one of the comments that we heard, and Kate,
I'm looking at you, and we also heard from some of the public is revolved around outdoor rec.
So what we have done in consultation with the transition team within the evacuation yard, there is the
opportunity for an outdoor rec area operationally if the sheriff's office decides to utilize that.
But there is that opportunity there, and we have made those provisions. The second thing I wanted to
point out briefly is, if you recall from February, and I think I mentioned it before, when I was talking
about the alternate bid items, one of the alternate bid items is an inmate release resource center.
And some of you that have been to Franklin County and over in Columbus, Ohio, you saw what we're envisioning.
As an alternate bid, that's where it would potentially be located.
And the reason that we're locating it right there will make more sense to you when I talk about the
floor plan layout, because this is where inmates would be released out the front of the building in
close proximity to a bus pickup drop-off area right here in the front of the building. The questions
regarding site. Council Haug, can you please move your microphone to you?
I know I read that there was detention as well as runoff from the from the building and the parking
lot and also using some of the what's already on the site for some of the drainage to go to. Does that
show where does that show? Yes so right up here on kind of the north end of the site we've allocated
some space here for some on-site storm detention.
Also in this area right here, it's labeled. You'll see that in the kind of the southeast quadrant of
the site as well. All right. TSD, if you would advance the slide. So this is the overall first floor plan.
So what you see here is both the sheriff's office and jail and the justice center. Now, one thing I
want to point out, you'll see the area that has the dashed red line around that. That's what we refer
to as the secure perimeter. We've been asked by the sheriff's office transition team to obscure the
layout and configuration of what this really looks like for security reasons.
But I can assure you that the transition team has been intimately involved in the layout and configuration
of these spaces within the secure perimeter. So I just wanted to point that out. Regarding the general
overview and the layout of this facility, so to give you some sense of orientation, you'll see a north
arrow right down here. So in reality, this building is turned a little bit
at about a 45 degree angle on the site. So north is that direction, right? We, however, we don't rotate
our drawings on a drawing sheet. So we refer to as plan north, plan south, plan east, plan west.
So this is our front elevation is our plan north elevation. But from the north, you see that we have
a common entry point where all of the public will enter the facility. There'll be security right here.
Right off of that area, we have a shared conference room just north of the Sheriff's Office Administration,
which is identified here in this blue color. Just below that, we have the Jail Administration,
which is a little darker blue area. Now, there is direct access from the Sheriff's and Jail Office admin
areas into the secure perimeter of the jail, which is
defined by this red line right here. The purple is our intake area. So this is kind of the first stop
for the arresting officer and the arrestee. So this is our vehicle Sallyport that Nick spoke about before.
So this is where patrol cars will pull in, will go into the intake booking and do their processing area.
The pink area here is what you heard me talk about the medical mental health area of the facility and
again it's intentionally placed
immediately adjacent to the intake area. This light blue right here, this is our visitation,
whether it be contact or non-contact visitation. So in many instances, for the non-contact or the contact,
the public can enter off this public corridor right here, load from one side, and then inmates can load
from the secure side, from the opposite side. We have our master control.
We intentionally placed it right here at the intersection of these corridors for observation,
since that's a 24-7 man post. Moving on then, we have our laundry right over here in kind of this orangey
color. This green area, those are our inmate workers, both male and female. I don't mean to interrupt you,
but on that master control for a second, I was going to ask, that individual or that unit,
there, I shouldn't say individual, that they can see the breadth of the building in all ways. Is that right?
They can definitely see all the way down this long public corridor. And then we have security, obviously,
right here at our main public entry. We also have an information desk that will be staffed by court
administration right here. So as public comes in, if they're trying to see, you know, they want to know
what courtroom they need to go to, that's
why we put that right here. And master control is not going to be going, oh, you want room 12. Correct. Yes.
So somebody walking in will have court dockets, monitors right there, likely identifying Carnegie versus
whoever, courtroom three, for example. And then you just go down the public corridor. This lighter shade
of orange is our kitchen area.
again it's in very close proximity to the loading dock area that Nick pointed out in this little haunch
of the building. This green light green area this is what we refer to as our general population housing
area and you can see the date rooms that are listed these over here in blue these are the alternate
one that's where we pick up 48 additional beds then over here
For these three that are identified here, that's where you would pick up alternate two with ads and
additional 48 beds by build out. Yes, Kate. Originally on the previous slide, you had potential expansion
areas, but that's different than what you're talking about with the alternate bid areas. That's a very
excellent point, Kate.
And that's why partly why I say hopefully not in my lifetime. Would we ever have to add on to this?
That future expansion is in addition to the build out of these additional beds. These alternate bids
right here. You add those additional beds gets us to the 500. Got it. Makes sense. OK, so those are
those are just I don't know the right wording, but
You'll have it structured in, not built out completely. Correct. And that other stuff that tacks onto
the outside of the building is way down the road. And we're not thinking about it, but at least there's land.
Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Very, very good summary. Yes, Marty. So is a sage green or whatever that
part of the site.
if you didn't see all those first alternate bid outs, is it still going to be there and it will be the
first floor and then will the alternate bid be some on top or is that the whole thing that's in Sage
Green not going to be built right now? Everything that's not in these little identified areas,
all of this will be built out. That's base bid. These areas will be, these two boxes down here in particular
will be shelled out.
This is where there's two additional day rooms here and two additional day rooms here. I get 48 additional
beds here, and I get 48 additional beds here. We're going to shell the space, meaning floors, walls, and roof,
so that on bid day, if bids come in under budget, and you all as the elected officials choose to award
either that alternate to where you get the 404 plus 48 beds,
or you can add the other alternate to get to the 500, but there will be shelled space where you can add those,
finish them out. Part of the original plan back? Yes. Four years ago, whenever we started. Yeah. Okay, thanks.
All right. So the other area that I have not yet touched on that's within a secure perimeter is this
brown area. That is inmate holding. So it's kind of the on deck circle for inmates during court proceedings.
there is secure holding right off of this back corridor that lead to the back of the courts.
So that comprises everything within a secure perimeter, the sheriff's office and jail. Moving on to
kind of the east end of the building is our justice center. So in this light area right here,
this is the clerk's office. This is probation and community corrections. Right here is the public defender.
We have prosecutor criminal, prosecutor child support. So they're all off of this main public corridor,
which we really like for supervision and security purposes. We don't like corners where people can hide
behind and that kind of thing. And also why we wanted the master control, which is a 24-7 post right there.
On the other side of the corridor, we have our courtrooms. So again, the public will always enter either
Any reason they're here for the facility will be in this main corridor. So we have our courtrooms located
right here. We have a shared large conference rooms right here that's shared between everybody in the
facility. And then when you get down into these gray areas down here, it's more of our mechanical,
electrical, plumbing, IT. Those are the spaces we need to make the facility work.
And then in this little brown area right here, these are jury rooms. So we have two jury rooms,
small kitchenette, both of them equipped with their own toilet facilities. But it's, again, off of this
back corridor that the public will not have access to. So you notice these kind of brighter green boxes
right here. Those brighter green boxes represent vertical circulation, meaning stairs. Sorry,
I know I'm going to cuss here when I say an elevator.
We have one elevator. There will not be inmates. And there's no food delivery up to the fifth floor
like you currently have in your justice center. These stairs and elevators go up to the second floor.
And if you turn the page, you'll see those same green boxes over on the same right side of the page.
Those go up and access a second floor.
Our second floor is isolation for the judges. So we have our judges chamber and court administration
up on the second floor. So for security purposes, judges, judges chambers, court administration,
they're isolated to the second floor. Make sense? The reason that we show
A second floor in the general population area is because keep in mind these day rooms, there are two-story
space volumes and there's a perimeter mezzanine because of the cells around the perimeter. So technically
there is a second floor, but it's the mezzanine and upper level cells in the two-story day room. Open air.
Yes. Okay. Yes. And that's just the way that we designed modern, everybody designs modern jails pretty
much anymore.
If you turn the page, this is what we refer to as building elevations. So this is a flat, two-dimensional
drawing of what the building is beginning to shape up and look like. And this is where I refer to as
Plan North, Plan South, in reality, because it's kind of turned. The front of the building is really
facing northwest. But you can see there's a legend down here in the bottom right-hand corner that identifies
the proposed materials.
I'm not going to go into and explain all of the building materials and every application where we're
going to use them, because the renderings that you're going to see here in a moment, I think,
really speaks volumes. But generally speaking, the exterior materials are three primary elements.
They are insulated precast panels with a combination of either acid etched or exposed aggregate.
And then we also have five inch precast concrete veneer and that predominantly the veneers along the
front of the building because we'll stick build that with and not be an insulated panel. The third primary
element that you're going to see in the building elevations are a composite metal panel and you'll see that
in the elevations here in a moment. That's where we really want to just pull out a design feature,
give it a little pop and try to break up some of the horizontal. The building's a big building.
So we want to kind of decrease the appearance that it's very long and linear. So you'll see a couple
of little design elements where we've incorporated some metal panels. The metal panels are also utilized
at our entrances, canopies, that type of thing. We'll have a canopy over a door.
Again, turning the page, now you're kind of seeing the ends of the building, that being the east and the west.
And the building materials are the same all the way around the building, just a combination of those
three primary elements. Now we get into what I kind of refer to as the fun drawings, because I think
that they just really kind of begin to bring the project to life. So this is the site layout plan,
but it's actually rendered now.
So you can kind of begin to see a little more, I think, with some definity what some of these elements are.
So Nick, you want to kind of walk through, just kind of highlight some of those items? Yeah,
I think this 3D rendering helps see some of the retaining walls on the north and then along the southwest,
the proposed public road.
Along the east side of the building were backed up against the floodplain and so trying to balance the
site there's some cut and fill and so that that east side of the site will will receive a retaining wall.
To kind of fill the site in that area. This starts to show planting the trees and kind of the buffer
yard areas for screening the site is required by ordinance.
You can see in the front entry plaza that covered walkway for the loading and drop off zone.
On the next image, it starts to help you see in three dimension what the front of the building will look like,
how cars might circulate that. And just as a point of reference, this is Hunter Valley Road.
Right here. So the new roadway that Nick spoke about before, it's really down here just out of camera view.
But this is the loop drive that Nick was talking about that comes around. That's the loop drive all
the way around. And you can see we're planning for a bus drop off here. This is where the inmate release
resource center would be located in close proximity to the inmate release to the front of the building.
Ask a quick question. Yes. In the drawings that we have projected up on the screen, we see some of the
roof structures a little recessed. Forgive me for asking, but we've had a lot of water issues lately.
So can you explain a little bit about how, in that section, water won't be dripping down onto the desks
of our justice staff? OK, so excellent point. So what you see here in this rendering is
people sometimes refer to those as flat roofs. I don't like flat roofs. Well, there's no such thing
as a flat roof. It's what we refer to as a low slope roof, but it is a single ply membrane, very likely
a TPO roof. And we need to have these details, you know, as far as the actual materials with the owner,
the commissioners and maintenance staff as well. But you also see several skylights. Now these are
quality commercial skylights. And to be honest with you, in probably the 30-some year of my career of
designing jails where we provide these skylights, I don't know that I've ever had a callback because
of a leak. And I'm just 100% honest. Now, the reason that we have skylights is because by DOC, Department
of Corrections standard, jail standards, we have to provide a certain level of natural light
into areas where inmates are confined. So day rooms, holdings, those types of things. So that's why
you see the rooftop just peppered with skylights. Now, to your point, you see this raised area right here?
This is where we're providing clear story lighting. So clear story lighting is tall. It's up and it's
horizontal typically.
That's where we're providing some natural light into the courtrooms. Because if you noticed on the floor
plans, the courtrooms don't back up to an exterior wall, which is good and bad. But that's how we're
popping that roof up to provide natural light into the courtrooms. The other thing I want to point out
is you see these areas right here, these are mechanical rooftop screens. Because as part of our value
engineering exercise, you heard me talk about some of our conversations weren't
very pleasant. When we had to start thinking about how we're going to save cost, reduce scope,
reduce square footage, one of the items that we came up with was to instead of building isolated rooms
to house some of the mechanical equipment, they're going up on the roof, which is fine. That's done very,
very frequently. However, regarding the PUD, we do have to screen it.
So as you heard Nick talk about the grade elevation from the upper level up here from Hunter Valley Road,
which is the high point of the site, you can't look down and see mechanical rooftop equipment. So that's
why you see the rooftop screens. Did I answer your question, Peter?
I think so. There's a lot of people behind you right now that have been having some water issues in
their offices. So maybe we'll hear about that in public comment. But I do want to give some reassurance
that as we're thinking about a design, we're taking that into account as well. So keeping that thought,
do you know what the slope is, the grade? Of the site? Of the roof. The roof? Well, I'm going to turn
around for a little backup. Is it quarter inch per foot?
Quarter inch per foot is the typical slope. Yeah, it's dictated to us by the code. That's the minimum.
You can go taller, but that increased cost because then either you're sloping your roof structure or
you're building up tapered insulation, which means all your parapet around the building gets taller.
We typically do quarter inch per foot. All right.
Again, now turning the page, you'll see a project rendering. Now we're just kind of zooming in a little bit.
So now we're still in a helicopter. I'm not at grade. But this just gives you some idea on a perspective.
So this is a dome concept right here with, again, clear story lighting around the perimeter.
So this is our main entry right here. And you can see this area over here in the purple on the floor plan,
this is the conference room.
that's immediately off of the main front lobby area. Over here you see the sheriff's administration
area and as you start to come down this side of the building, this is the clerks area, then you start
moving into the probation community corrections. You heard me talk about the use of some metal panels
and we typically try to do some kind of a vertical design feature to break up the
long horizontality of a building facade. That's, for example, where we would begin to incorporate a
composite metal panel. Scott, I have a quick question. So you said over here to the right is the conference
room? Yep. Should that be as visible? I guess, is there no security concern for that area to be open
like that?
That conference room is really conceived originally to where it could be used by somebody from the public,
like a public agency. If they need, the sheriff's office wants to host training for other jail commanders
across the state and that kind of thing. You can't access that conference. There is another door back here.
It's an emergency egress directly to the outside, but it's only for emergency egress.
you would have to go through security through the main entry lobby to gain access to that conference room.
I guess I'm just thinking like there's windows and things that are here where people that are walking
up to the building can see in and that would be I would say maybe a little bit of a safety concern.
Yeah and that's a good point we can have that conversation with the with the user group there's different
ways that we can approach that we can apply some films and
you know, laminate some things within the glass to obscure the vision as well. Marty. Can you help me? Marty,
turn your mic around please. Thank you. Let's say if we're at the stoplight that's there now, would
you be looking at the front
of that building, or would it be at the side? I'm just trying to think, if you're driving along,
are we going to see that big, beautiful building, or are we going to see the backside of it? No,
you're going to see the front. Now, when I say you're going to see the front, and that's why we intentionally
rotated the building at a 45 degree on the site, is so that when you're at that stoplight, State Road
46 and Hunter Valley Road, and you make that turn, and you're kind of coming up that slight, to me,
it's a little,
It doesn't really look like there's a grade going up, but there is a little bit of a grade going up.
Once you reach the high point there, then you're going to look over to your right or be able to turn
right into that new access road. And that's going to be the front of the building. And it's looking
straight at you. And that's why we rotated it 45 for that approach.
So now in the rendering, we've kind of dropped down to more of an eye level as opposed to kind of hovering
in a helicopter. But this is the main public drop-off entry area. You can begin to see this canopy right here.
One of the things we've talked about, if you go down to City Hall, you're going to see it. So I can't
claim this as an original idea, but we've talked about incorporating some photometric panels there for
the canopy.
photometric panels for the canopy right here. And I just commented, if you go down to City Hall and
you look at their covered parking, I can't claim that as an original idea, but something that we've
talked about internally that we could possibly incorporate here. That's not currently budgeted? Yes. Yes,
it is currently budgeted? For this right here. Okay. And that would be powering? Going to a power bank
and our electrical engineers will
talk to the building user groups and determine how to distribute from there. But it would be all used on site.
Yes, I would anticipate that, yeah. Again, we're not hovering in a helicopter. This is kind of what
you would expect to see if you were walking up and approaching the main entry. So of course,
it'd be a crosswalk. You heard Nick speak previously regarding, we call them crash bollards,
but you can see crash bollards.
here in that entry plaza area to prevent somebody from a vehicle ramming the front door. Those aren't
your typical bollards that most of you are accustomed to saying. These are deep, but have footings and
foundations. Now we're just kind of beginning to, yes, Marty. Marty, your microphone. I'm not seeing
handrails there, but then
Maybe it's going to be there. Remember that may look like it's really easy for the average person,
but for someone who has visual problems or someone with balance problems, there's going to need some
handrails there. What are the handrails for? There aren't any stairs. There's no stairs. That's striping.
That's striping across asphalt. It's not stairs. No, it's just a crosswalk painted at paint on asphalt.
There looks like stairs. The image on the next rendering on the next page is a little more helpful just
to show it's just a standard crosswalk striping. So yeah, Marty, those are the painted on the asphalt.
So again, we're beginning to kind of spin around the building now. So you can see the crash ballers.
Nick spoke about the paving out front in this entry plaza area being something a little more decorative.
You can see the dome. You can see the building off in the distance. So you can see, now you can begin
to see the two-story down here at this end of the building. This is the judges chambers and
court administration up on the second floor. Everything else is at grade. Depending on around the building.
So this is where the inmate release resource center as an alternate bid would be because this is the
inmate release.
Right here's our bus stop. And this area right here is likely going to be signed, you know, law enforcement
vehicles only beyond this point because the public, this is the loop drive that comes around, right?
We don't necessarily want them going back here because there's nowhere to go. This is the secure sheriff's
office and jail parking area. And there's our vehicle sally port so they can enter from either end of
this parking lot.
One component of that too is that opaque precast wall there that conceals the Sallyport and the sheriff's
office and jail parking from the public side of the facility. That's a good point. And the reason that
we did that here, and you'll see it when I spin around the building even more so, the PUD that was recently
adopted, I think it's 150 feet to the center line of a road. You can't have fencing.
That's why we put that there to comply with the PUD. I just got one more quick question for the entrance
part of the building. The bollards that are there, the crash area that's there, is that wide enough
for accessibility for wheelchairs? Oh yeah, absolutely. Yes. Okay. Yes. And I could show you photographs
of where we've incorporated something very similar. So now if you turn the page,
We're going to kind of spend continue spinning around the building. So now I'm overlooking the secure
sheriff's office and jail parking area. There's that screen wall that we just talked about. Over here
is the main entry. This is our vehicle sally port. And right here is staff entrance. Then we also are
releasing inmates out the front near the alternate bed inmate release resource center. You can begin
to see this is the
raised roof area that I spoke about before as far as how we would get natural light into the courtrooms
and this big block back here this is the general population housing area so the future addition hopefully
not in my lifetime would occur back here that's the area we're preserving. One other thing I
want to point out real quick, Marty, these two windows right here, those two windows, if you look on
the floor plan and kind of try to match things up, these windows right here go into the mental health,
both the male and female mental health day rooms. So we're really trying to flood that area with some
natural light. Marty. Microphone. Will that be artificial turf or
grass or what or plantings what as we get more detailed in design it'll start to show that it's probably
mulch planting islands not not turd or turf natural turf not artificial yep thank you all right so if
you turn the page we're continuing to spin around come to the back of the building
I think this one kind of really helps you visualize what's going on at the back of the building.
So this is the loop drive that Nick talked about that goes, if you follow it all the way to the end,
that goes in to kind of the back of the sheriff's office jail secure parking. This is the access drive
that goes into delivery area, loading dock, generators, chillers, that kind of thing sitting out here.
This area right here, this is the justice parking area for justice staff.
This is the secure justice parking area. So there'll be a gate there just like there will be at the
other secure parking for the sheriff's office in jail. This is the other opaque wall that Nick spoke
about previously. As far as providing that here, just provide some added protection because Hunter Valley
Road is right here, right? What's the difference? Who parks in that little area that's secure versus
outside of it?
Well, this conversation was originally conceived where I think talking to the prosecutor's office and
the judges, they were somewhat concerned regarding, you know, going out to an unprotected parking area.
I know that there were some females in particular that had concern going out, you know, when it was dark out.
So in further conversation with the judges,
there was a strong consensus that there was a very strong preference for some secure parking area,
at least for the judges, elected officials, prosecutor, public defender, those types of areas. The other
thing we've talked about is since it's not conceivable to secure all of the justice parking area,
if there is a staff member, whether male or female,
knows that they're going to be working late. If they want to park in there, there would be some areas
allocated for that purpose. They could go move their car, pull it in there so they're in close proximity
to the staff entrance when they leave the building. Turning the page, now you begin to see just kind
of a zoomed in area of the exact thing that we were talking about. This is the secure justice parking area.
This is the sliding gate that I was referring to. There is a staff entrance right here in very close
proximity to the stairs and elevator that goes up to the second floor for the judges chambers and court
administration. There's also at the very end of that long public corridor that stretches down to this
exterior wall. We have another staff entrance over here. So it's just a staff parking over here and
they want to use that door, they can utilize that
door as well. I'm continuing to spin around the building. Marty. Well, you know, we are in Bloomington,
Indiana, where we sometimes have a lot of snow. So what's the drainage for one word to put the snow piles?
Or is it assumed that they'll be hauled off? I mean, I'm sure you've already talked to people about this. So
You can tell me about that later. Very good point. Well, I just want to make sure that we didn't end
up with no way to get in and out of there because of all the snow. Yeah, good point, especially after
last winter. All right, so we're continuing to spin around the building. And this is where you can really
begin to see the upper level court, judges chamber, and court administration area. This is another area
where we're incorporating a lot of composite metal panel.
both as a design feature, but also to help reduce some of the costs so that we're not extending precast
veneer up on the second floor. So now you can kind of begin to see, if you're looking down the length
of the building, what that would look like. So what you're seeing here is a precast concrete veneer panel.
More around the back of the building, where the inmates are being housed, where the maintenance areas are,
that's where we would utilize the insulated precast concrete panel.
And we're going to finish again at the front of our building where we started. So we've kind of spun
all the way around the building, kind of showing you some views of what the building would look like.
So if you look at this page again, if you look in this report, you will see what we refer to as discipline
narrative. So all of the disciplines, site, civil, structural,
architectural, mechanical, electrical, plumbing, fire protection. Everybody has a narrative in here
that was also provided to the Weddegarmung Smoot in their packet when they prepared their cost estimate.
If you're having trouble falling asleep tonight, I would encourage you to read that. So the page that
I know everybody is eagerly awaiting, and I'm going to
I'll turn it over to Chris Seeley with Welligar Monks. Thanks Scott. Yeah, I'm Chris Seeley.
I'm with Welligar Brothers, part of the WGS team. What you'll see in front of you is the updated budget
based on 237,161 square feet, 404 beds, also the shell space for the additional 96 beds as described,
full Sheriff's Office and jail, full Justice Center.
As of this design and what you've seen, total construction costs is $194,090,689, with an added soft
cost of $30,409,429, bringing the total project cost to $224,500,118.
Down below, you have the ad alternates. I want to highlight that it is an ad for the items that were
highlighted in the day rooms and the inmate resource center. So both alternates, one and two,
they're the same cost because of the same scope. So it's just mirror image of each other, just flipping
the pods in which they're in. Both of those are $2,458,805. And then the inmate resource center
$896,656. Those are your alternates to be considered. Chris, just for folks in the public and maybe
some of us that might need a refresh, when we talk about the term soft costs, can you remind us what that,
because it's an amount. Yeah, so the soft cost is
cost for design, professional services, it's the furnishings in the building. There are, gosh,
property purchase are also included in there. So anything that is an actual construction expense associated
with the job. Also, just as a reminder,
When we presented the pre-design phase in February, I believe the total project cost estimate was $237
million. And if you recall, the commissioners made a motion with the caveat that we would proceed but
continue to look for ways to reduce costs. So that was obviously a driving point from February to where
we are here today. The last page is an updated timeline.
I'm not going to go through everything here on the first page because it's all been completed.
But if you look at the second page over here on the slide, you'll see February 27th, that's when we
presented the pre-design phase. We forwarded the Schenic Design packet information that I referenced before,
as well as a lot of additional drawings to Weldegarmung Smut from July 28th to August 1st, and that's
what they used to prepare their cost estimate.
And we're here today presenting schematic design to the county. And as I mentioned before, there are
two other subsequent design phases, both design development and construction documents that will follow.
And of course, we have to have approval from the county to commence the next design phase. You can see
that we're still showing occupancy in June.
to be completed by the end of 2020 29 being substantially complete. Here. Thank you. Back on the previous
page, the project cost estimate page. It would be immensely helpful to have a itemized budget for those
four bullet points at the top.
cost per square foot. That's always helpful to have as well. I mean, I know that number changes all the time,
but the difference between the budgeted costs for the justice center, different costs for the jail,
it would be helpful to just see those broken out a little bit more. Might have to go into immense detail,
but it would be helpful to have that. Yes, Councillor Feidl. Can I go back to the water?
So having lived on some properties before where there have been water issues, I want to know where all
the water from the roof is going. From the road, you said? The roof. Oh, the roof. So it kind of goes back to,
I forget who, but somebody, I think it was Marty, maybe asked about the stormwater basins that we have
built onto our site. So I'm not a civil guy, but I deal with this on every project. I rely
on the professionals that
do to do this every day. But we are required to hold the amount of stormwater on our own site.
We can only discharge it at the same rate that is currently discharged. We can't increase. So we will
size the detention pond areas to hold the water on our own site and discharge at its current rate so
we're not affecting people downstream.
The roof will have roof drains that drain connect into those detention basins. And then, as Scott said,
that will release. And what might be the time frame on holding the water? I mean, are we talking mosquitoes?
I mean, what could happen there in that water basin? So go ahead. Yeah, I mean, our civil engineers,
as we get further in design, will have to look at rates of that. But I think there were some favorable
comments to having some standing water. But I think on this side, it might
release almost immediately or we could size the basin so that there's no standing water. But we have
to really dive into those details in the next phase of the project. Thanks. Council Henry. Thank you
Madam President. Thank you everybody for your presentation. It's admirable that the vendor takes in
requirements, comes up with a wonderful design. I mean I can tell about the attention to detail here
that has gone into this. So some of my comment isn't really directed at you because you took what was
given to you and you built
the drawing off of it, but I think the one schematic question I have for you all before we get into
other conversations with other folks today is if this project had to be phased, where we had to select
or prioritize what gets built first based on the budget constraints placed on us by the state of Indiana
and of course our own decisions about whether or not to use our tax dollars in this way, is there a
way to phase this project and prioritize certain aspects of it?
and break it into sections, or design it in a manner where we build what we minimally need to meet ACLU
requirements, safety requirements, and then revisit other options over a period of time. So if the project
had to be phased, and I know it's a lot riding on the Senate Bill 1 state legislation, to me,
and I'll let Garmong Smoot chime in if they feel differently from a cost perspective, or just a construction
sequencing perspective,
But to me, it seems that phase one would naturally be the sheriff's office in jail. I think that's also
the highest priority for the community. With the secondary phase being the justice center, is that not
if I answered your question? No, that helps. And these are a solution, not the solution. There are obviously
ways to think about
the other aspect of co-location here and what that cost really means to the county. I don't think that's
the county council's job to explain to the public the cost of co-location. It's really the offices that
feel that that's the better solution for taxpayer dollars. But that's not your problem. You were given
requirements. You gave us a schematic. You answered my question about what could potentially be phased.
Thank you. Thank you. That's a good point. Anybody else? Councilor Welch?
This isn't, I have a couple of questions. But the first one is, you mentioned various windows and skylights
and the natural light, which I think is fantastic. When someone is in the general population portion
of the building, are there any, besides the skylights, are there any windows
or any other natural sources of light coming in from the sides? Within the day rooms, no. And one of
the primary reasons is because most modern jails, if any of you have toured any of ours or any of our
competitors, most of them are built with what we refer to as a perimeter chase that all the plumbing
backs up to and that way we can maintain without, do maintenance without having to go into the secure
perimeter. So that really
It can be done, but it's more costly to add exterior windows, because now you have essentially two walls.
We're adding windows in, so it just doubles. So most modern jails, the natural light requirement is
achieved by skylights. However, there is, and I know this was brought up and discussed when we presented
in February, but rec areas that we refer to as indoor outdoor recreation areas.
Where what that is, is there's an insulated overhead coiling door that can raise up. And then there's
a security barrier there. It's just an open grating, but they can get natural light, natural ventilation,
that type of thing. But it's up high. And that's really what precipitated the conversation back in February.
And I think somebody made a comment. You mean I can't, or an inmate can't touch grass? And that's what
has precipitated the outdoor wreck.
Um, you know, in, in consultation with the transition team operationally, if they so choose to utilize
the outdoor rec that we would provide, be providing an evacuation yard, we have made that provision.
And would that outdoor rec involve what you're talking about with.
sounds like a garage door thing. Yeah, not the outdoor. It's the indoor outdoor. So that's not incorporated
in this plan, though, right? No, it is. Yes. It's within the secure perimeter, so it's obscured,
so I can't point and show you. No worries then. Got it. Yes. Can I ask one more? And this might not
be something that you feel comfortable estimating, but as you're going along,
I'm thinking about the staffing levels for specifically the jail side of things and how this design
change from our current, which obviously is inefficient already, but how will the staffing levels change?
I'm honestly glad you brought that up. I know that this was a topic that was brought up in February,
and I think it was Peter in particular that said, hey,
in addition to our construction costs, which will eventually go away because the building will eventually
be paid off. The cost will never go away as a staffing operation. And you heard Nick previously talk
about our next design phase, which is our design development phase. Now that the building is beginning
to take shape, our engineers are going to
become much more involved in running heating, cooling, calculation loads and sizing equipment.
And of course your mechanical equipment dictates your electricity needs and those types of things.
So we will be running an operational analysis to give some sense as to how much gas, how much electricity,
how much water is anticipated and compare and contrast that to what you're currently spending at the
justice center. Now that's just one part of the component. Second part is staffing.
So we will also now that these floor plan is beginning to settle down and take shape we're running what
we refer to as a staffing analysis to where we can compare and contrast you know every post and compare
and contrast that to your existing justice center. Thank you.
Yeah. I see Councilor Hawke has pulled her microphone, so that means she has something to say. But before
I go to Councilor Hawke, I'll go to Councilor Decker-Hawke. And then I apologize when this meeting was
scheduled, I already had a previous thing at one o'clock. So I am going to be leaving here soon,
but I will hand it over to Pro Tem Iverson to finish taking over. So thank you. Thank you, Madam President.
Thank you very much. I kind of want to
follow up to make sure I understand everything I need to understand here. And I appreciate immensely
the presentation, seeing the schematics and kind of getting this in my head. I kind of want to follow
up on Councilor Henry's question. And help me to make sure I understand it. If the jail sheriff option
went in a phase by itself, the approximate cost of something like that were 60 to 80,
million plus roughly. We haven't evaluated in that level yet, but it's probably upwards of that.
And that's still going to exceed the bonding capability that we can do as a county anyway, because the
states basically told us you can't do anything other than buy some bubble gum next Friday, and we're
going to double check you on that. Mr. Cockerill, and I'm not going to put you guys on the spot for that,
but Mr. Cockerill, I have that right, right? Yeah, I think, you know,
and this is part five so if you want me to wait. Can we hold off to make sure other council members
have questions? I'm not quite done yet. I guess the last part of this is if and I'm open to any idea
that gets us to completion but phasing is still going to extend at a greater cost to my taxpayers
construction. So essentially, if my daughter in fifth grade decides she'd like to run for my council
seat one day, she hits age and seeks it, she'll be in here figuring out how to get the courts and public
defender and prosecutor over there, only she'll be doing that at a much greater cost in amount than
what we have now, even at our extended from 2009 timeline. Am I saying this right? Correct. If the project
becomes more linear and
time frame to do it is the cost is going to increase. And with some exception here or there, maybe,
as we talk about it, I haven't seen anything yet that is not a public service entity doing its function. Now,
there's some trimming that can always happen. But I'm trying to figure out where, because we had this
set last year. We had a correction tax that was well debated. And then one thing I want to point out,
voted on that, two members of the council went on the ballot who voted for that, and then they were
returned by the electorate. So it's not like we've not had some public accountability on the process we had.
It's just we have a state law that has changed, and now it will end up costing us a lot more time to
do what we need to do. You all don't have to comment on that. I just, I'm trying. All right, I saw council
member Hawke's hand next.
it's just a small point while we're looking at additional staffing we have to recognize we have to have
more staffing to maintain that large parking lot as well because you know that's that's a lot more than
what we would do now so and security needs to be out there not just for
people leaving courts, but just in general, a large parking lot, as we all know, can generate some nefarious
activities. So I think you have to take that in consideration. Good point. Council Member Henry. Thank you,
Mr. President. Yeah, I think we might be bleeding into Section 5 a little bit, but I think it's worth
looking at the phasing a little longer. You all constructed the Morgan County Justice Center, correct?
which is a standalone facility from their sheriff's and jail facility. And so they're not co-located.
And so there is some transport and activities there. I think this gets to Councilor Iverson's question,
which is we really do need to understand those other cost models of staffing and what the cost difference
between transport versus the cost of co-location is. I appreciate Councilor Deckard's analogy,
or at least walking through a version or a version of what costs could look like. Phase two doesn't
necessarily have to be a new
Justice Center could be working with our partnerships here in Bloomington to keep things downtown.
We have plenty of vacant office space. The city bought Showers West that's sitting open and vacant.
It could be considered as a possible location to keep things downtown and answer some questions that
many in the community have brought about the removal of the legal community from downtown and moving
at three miles north of town here. So I think we need to keep in perspective that there are other costs
other than the phasing. All of our children, Peter's, myself, Jen's, transfer and be paying for this
at this point, regardless of what we do. But I don't want to pontificate here too much to say that the
phase one concept and seeing what that can meet our budget or what we can do locally, what is minimally
required to be met by the ACLU and other stakeholders, not just the ones that work in that building,
but the ones in the community that have grave concerns about whether or not our values are being met
with this facility, are all back on the menu since SB1 and the election in November. A lot has changed
since then. Thank you, Mr. President.
All right, I think council, I'm hearing correctly. We want to move on to the next conversation,
but you put a lot of work into this. It's very evident you put hours and hours and hours. You've listened
to us and all of our griping. You've tried to meet us where we're at. So that that's appreciated.
I want to give you guys the last word. Anything else you want to add at this point before we move on
to a financial conversation? Only thing I want to add is you see us as the face up here making this
presentation, but
that were supported by a host of people back in the office that I kind of jokingly say do the real work
so I just want to give them the recognition as well as the recognition of the office and department
members the transition team and all the work that they've put into it as well. Excellent thank you so
much and just as a reminder for folks watching at home all of the materials we've reviewed this morning
are online on the county council's web or on the county's website so please look at this work. Thank you.
I want to make a brief comment now, because I don't want it to bleed into the next topic, because I
think it could. What you've seen between February and now with the difference in what it is, is fairly
dramatic. It is a dramatic difference from those two. Now, prior to the conversation we're about to have,
the expectation is there will still be some minor tweaks and changes as we move forward but it won't
be that kind of a dramatic change. I mean we went from a two-floor facility to primarily a one-floor
facility so I just kind of want to tell you yeah this is the best guess we have now. I expect there'll
be some really minor changes. I know that there's some discussions going on about courtroom space and
things like that but I think primarily we don't expect those to necessarily affect the budget a lot
but just to kind of make you guys aware that, you know, this is a point where we're at today, you know,
when we go to bid.
it'll be a little bit different, but not the change we've seen in the last eight months. Good point.
Thank you. All right. We're going to move on to the next item on our agenda, but keep in mind after
this financial conversation is time for public comment. So get your public comment ready here in the
NatU Hill Room. And also for those of you joining us on Teams, when the time comes, I'll ask you to
raise your hand on Teams and we'll recognize you when that time comes.
I think now we'll transition to a conversation about financing this justice center. And we will begin with Mr.
Jeff Cockrell, who has worked, again, put in a lot of hours on this as well. So can you kind of lead
us off with the numbers you prepared for this meeting?
All right, and I will say I did not put a lot of hours into these changes because I just got the information
this morning of what the new rates for next year is going to be. Oh, he's humble to. So it was kind of fast.
And these numbers have not been reviewed by Financial Solutions Group or any of the other people I would
normally have confirmed them before I make them at a public meeting. But this meeting was occurring,
and I thought it would be important for you guys to have them. Essentially, in the documents trial,
Justice Senator funding updates
8-29-2025. You should have already seen a piece of paper with the first column, the first column of
numbers on it except that now it says 2025 lit rates. It was based upon our lit rates for this year
and our bonding capacities and things like that and the next the next column is 2026 lit rates. I'm
gonna be fully honest and
these are all pre SB one thoughts and how we were looking at things. And so I just kind of want to set
that as the baseline. You know, we just heard a $224 and a half million dollar project. You know,
if we were continuing to go on the, what we had, we would have the capacity to do a $243 million dollar
facility. Again, that's,
not been audited by anybody that's me putting something on a piece of paper this morning but I but I've
been traditionally I've been pretty close so I I'm not saying that that's way off um although that it
has to be way off you know that no that's not because because then the next breaks it down with construction
budget debt reserve cost of issuance and underwriting kind of what we've seen previously so we would
be on pace if it weren't for senate bill one I guess is is is what I'm
trying and hoping to convey I guess but at the last long-term finance committee we had our financial
advisors advise us on you know kind of what SB 1 has done and it was different than what we had thought
but what I thought before that meeting and so I thought it was important that you guys realize this
they give three he has three different options and I emailed this out the other day hopefully you've
had a chance to look at it or it was presented at that meeting I think on August 1st
The first one I really don't like to talk about a whole lot because that is going through a referendum
process and putting an additional property tax rate on to the property tax payers. Again, another reason
I say I don't want to talk about that is because I can demonstrate that we have enough lit money coming
in and that was always the scheme all along. It's an option. I guess the
again pre-SB1 we had enough. The second is what we could bond for today with no legislative changes at all.
The issues are it's only 25 percent of our current lit rate and discussing it with bond council we can
only commit our lit up through 2027 before the kind of
grand lit changes occur so that gives us a bonding capacity and his it was 19.3 million dollars.
My adjustments is that's a little over 20 million dollars 20.3 million dollars based upon the increase
in our current lit rates or not rates but the revenue we expected to receive from our from our current
late rate and you know
Honestly, I'm not sure we can get much done, if anything at all, if no legislative is changed based
upon our ability to raise funding. Yes. Is this a two-year bond that you're talking about? Yes.
So it would be, I'm just, so 20,000, but we'd be paying it off in two years? Correct. Okay.
So it's 20 million.
paid off in two years. Oh, yeah. Deal, Rob. Sorry. Again, that's a decent chunk of change,
but it's not the chunk of change we're talking about. And I guess thrown in here is that with the referendum,
item one, if we went through that process, that would allow us to utilize the referendum as a tax backup
and not necessarily set a tax rate. And then we could utilize
lit for our primary payment, and then if something went different than expected in that transition of
28 and beyond, we would have the ability to utilize that property tax backup, but it would still be
subject to that referendum process. And just real quick before we go any further, you now see on your
screens the information that started Mr. Cockrell's conversation. And Mr. Cockrell, I think if you want to
address any of this, and whoever's projecting it, can you please zoom in for those of us with old eyes?
I have the youngest old eyes, yeah. And I guess, again, caveat, too, it's not been audited,
and I'm not sure if it's true. Essentially, what it says, 2025 lit rates, those are the calculations
we were using before SB1 on what we thought we could afford.
and then the 2026 later, sorry, there are just those numbers updated by the difference between what
we expect at 1% of the rate to collect versus last year versus this year. Council Member Hawke.
So as what happens many times with a bond issue that we do, we, the large ones, we back it up with general
obligation. However, you're saying this particular one when we would not
be able to do it because of the price tag of it without a referendum. So if I'm understanding you right,
that means that whatever
bonding mechanism will use lease or whatever, we would not be able to back it up with property tax.
We've just got the income tax to back it up, which would then cause a higher interest rate. Am I following
you? I think you're following, except the reason we can't back it up, it's got nothing to do with the
size of the bond. It's got everything to do with that transition in between 27 and 28 on that.
We had the revenue.
The question is can we will our revenue source, can we reasonably assume that it will cover the cost
and be able to pay off the debt over the course of the period of time and given that we're dealing with
a with a revenue source that doesn't exist today.
is according to bond council we cannot make that determination that that would be reasonable to expect
that to be able to do which is why we'd have to go through a referendum process because we couldn't
make the statement based upon what we have today we can pay we have we can point the revenue that we
feel we will pay this
that off and we won't have to use that. Yes, we'd have to do the referendum process to do it that length.
It's not really associated with the amount of the bond other than the fact that the current SB1 would
not allow for us to do that.
I think the end of the day answer is correct. We'd have to go through the referendum. It would be subject
to referendum. I'm trying to get the bond council's words correct. Subject to the referendum process,
but it's a combination of size and the changes brought on by SB1. And then I guess the final answer
is essentially
what changes would need to be made for us to be able to utilize the funding that we thought we were
going to have moving forward and that would be there really really three different issues. One is we're
we're subject to 25% of our lit revenue so we if that got extended and we were able to bond on just
the 25% we would
be in the range of $126 to $137 million in bonding capacity, which if we spent all our cash in the edit
and the corrections would probably be about $160 million projects, give or take a little bit.
I didn't have time to do all that math today.
So that's if that 25% cap was extended so that we could bond for 20 years based upon that 25% of your
lit rate. The second, if we wanted to do, if we got legislation to do the full project, we were looking at,
in Mr. Garretaz's presentation on the first, it was a 0.41 rate. 0.41 income tax rate would cover our
debt service on this.
My calculations based on the increase, it's down a little bit to 0.39 to 0.4, somewhere in that range,
but it's still well above the 0.25, right? And so we would need to have them, the state legislature
authorizes us in one way or another. I know there are a couple of different mechanisms. The simplest
to me is just allow us to use the current rate if we can demonstrate that that rate is reasonable and
we're allowed to commit that future revenue source towards that.
the rate would be about 0.41 is what we would need to do that. Or there's the special purpose tax,
which would be kind of like our juvenile lit, which would be a separate tax from what we currently receive.
So it would be an additional tax. And then in 2027, 28, when you guys didn't get the authority to levy
the tax and you would have the ability to take that into account as you're setting the rest of the tax rates.
My personal feeling as someone who likes math but doesn't like it that much is that if we could just
be able to use what we currently have, because in my mind, it's sufficient, at least for today,
and we never know what tomorrow is going to bring. And that would continue the plan that we had from
last year before the SB1 hit. That would be, in my mind, the peripheral course if we were able to get the full
full amount to do the project. All right, Council, that's three options and a lot of numbers. Mr. Henry,
I see your hand first. Thank you, Mr. President. I'll keep it brief. So we had the options from FSG
in the long-term government finance meeting. Jeff, thank you for walking through those again and providing
some numbers. So all three options don't get us where we need to go today.
basically, because we have choices to make. Going to the public for a referendum is, democratically speaking,
probably the right thing to do for a quarter of a billion dollar project to let the public weigh in.
And yet I can appreciate there's heartburn probably even bringing that up, but I think that when we're
talking about a project of this size for our county's history, it's not something that they immediately
take off the table. Option B is
10 percent or less than 10 percent. Right. We get about 20 million started. It sounds like we pay our
fees for what's been done. We level some land out at North Park and we buy it and we're basically waiting
at that point. So that doesn't really get us anywhere closer to getting folks out of the building.
And I presume puts us into a funnel of well what do we do next once we figure out what the state legislature
wants to do. Let me finish. Option three sounds a bit like we're waiting for new legislation and we hope
and that after the gerrymandering of the state and they get around to helping us out at some point,
I think that that might be wish thinking. So what I hear here today is, and I want to honor again DLZ's work,
it is a really great product.
that we can't pay for today. And as I heard your math, that if we look at $137 million project,
that's 40% off including soft costs. And if we look at 0.41 of the 1.2, that's a third off of the total
of this, a third of our tax capability going for 20 years to pay for this project. And those are huge
differences from where we were in November of 24.
So I think we need to be pragmatic and courageous and sort through this correctly to get to where we
need to go. But as I'm hearing it right now, there is no, we're putting a bet on the table and hoping
in two years we can continue with the project and unless someone has better foresight than that on how
the state legislature is going to work, I'm all ears. I guess maybe if I can, I guess
If we, and this is a tough assumption, right? If we assume that the current schedule for lit is going
to remain in the 25%, then in 28, I'm using your, I think your scenario where we do what we can today,
we level it out and we get the site ready. And then in 28, I think you guys would have the ability to
go in and, or you would have the ability to go in and issue a bond that could build the building.
The concern in my mind is that I don't know what costs are going to look like in two years.
But I'm willing to bet they're going to be higher than they are today. So if we went with 5% a year,
you're talking $20, $30 million, which is a lot. It could be used to put people elsewhere in
some alternatives and to think through some alternatives. $30 million is a lot of money.
All right, other council members have any thoughts? This is a lot. This is a lot of information.
It's a heavy topic with a lot of change and it's just, this is hard. That in uncertainty, yes.
Council member Hawke, I'm sorry. Right now, we are looking at buying North Park
That's not a done deal. And it includes a caveat that we co-locate within a certain period of time.
So I don't know how we close on North Park, on the purchase of North Park, or how we even move forward
because unless that offer to purchase changes. I think the offer to purchase is still there.
I think we are, I think it needs an additional appropriation by the county council. So you guys will
have to review that because we had earmarked the edit ban money for that purchase and the purchase price
was more than the edit ban amount was. So there's an additional appropriation that's going to be required.
And so I think that's the time to have that conversation.
The document does not say we have to co-locate in order for us to purchase and begin building.
It says we have to have the courts underbid before we utilize the jail for housing inmates.
So there is a difference there. What does that mean? I mean, does that mean all eight? Does it mean
all the courts? Or what does that mean? I mean, that can't.
That's an ass on there, so it's got to be more than one. Yeah. Certainly, it does not mean public defender,
prosecutor, clerk. And I don't want to come across and say that those groups hasn't. When we talked
about co-location in the past, the courts and the sheriff and those groups, they were fairly persuasive
on why co-locations is important, right? One topic.
That's great. I would encourage you to talk to them about that and get their thoughts because they were
persuasive a year ago and two years ago on why that's important. So given that, but the agreement does
not include all of the justice related components. It says the jail will not be open until
bids are out for the courts or accepted for the courts, one of those two. All right. If there are no
other counselors that want to make comment at this point, the public is here. Mr. Deckard. I want to
hear from the public, but I do want to say this. I think we have to be very cautious as a council in
not sending a reverse message to Indianapolis or legislators that are watching this or anything that
We just might be, well, maybe give up on the original plan that we actually adopted and that we don't
want to do, that maybe we're just going to sit on the side of the road and not do it. We had a plan,
and then things changed. We're not bumbling Keystone cops. I said this the other night in a meeting.
Sometimes there's a narrative, oh, Monroe County can't find the light switch. We found the light switch.
We were heading towards it. We've employed very strong individuals. We've taken public comment a million
times on this project. We've listened to counselors.
input we've responded to that we've listened to our multiple units input and that will continue to happen
towards an effort for cost down. But to me if there was an onus put on anyone it would be our friends
elsewhere in the legislature who would look at this and say you know we've got a county that cannot
move forward on a plan that it
it was responding to and doing. I don't want people to think, oh, there they are. They're fighting again.
They can't find their key ring. And the reality is we know this has got to get done, right?
We know that it has to happen for whatever cause it is that you have. If it's constitutional care in
the jail that you care about and you're not actually someone in that jail, it is your job to advocate
for people having the best conditions while they're in that
in that circumstance. If it's our folks, it's the ease by which both a prosecutor and a public defender
access a courts, which then accesses those who are in the system. So all those things play into it.
And I don't want anyone up north or elsewhere who might sheepishly be watching this. Oh, they're fighting
again to think that we are sitting on the side of the road. We had a plan. Let us run our plan.
And, you know, or give us a better option, but my gosh, counties who are local, cities who are local,
townships who are local, fire departments, they have got to have the ability to do what they do because
we are the closest form of government. And that cannot get lost in the shuffle. Thank you, Mr. Deckard.
We will now move to public comments. You will have three minutes. Please come up to any one
of the microphones, either at the table. I don't know if the microphone on the podium is working,
but there's lots of spots at the table here in the NatU Hill Room. And if you're joining us on Teams,
raise your hand. We will alternate between folks in the NatU Hill Room talking and folks on Teams talking.
So if there
We, I'm noticing that an individual is coming forth in that new Hill Room. If you could please state
your name for the record, you have three minutes. Oh, TSD, you're on it. Thank you. Hello, my name is
Lee Gruntheifer. I have some comments that I wrote down here because it's difficult for me to speak in public.
Who pays for this new jail?
who pays for it. Traditionally, the people who live in a place own property and therefore pay property taxes,
which are used for capital projects. Right. I own property, I pay property tax, capital project.
The jail is definitely, and the justice system, definitely a capital project. The local income tax,
which we refer to as LIT, which is paid by people who live in and have jobs in this county, is newish.
You know, newish. And fluctuation issues are still being worked out with this new tax. Why is the state
of Indiana shifting the tax burden from the owners of property to the workers of a county? Why?
Is it because people who live here can't afford to buy property here? Or is it because investors own
property here? I don't know.
Is it because of the unstable nature of LIT that the fiscal or the fiscal irresponsibility of county
council bodies across Indiana that has caused the Senate enacted Bill 1 to place these restrictions on LIT?
I mean, we have to understand that hopefully the state isn't just stupid and they've
put these restrictions on county council bodies for reasons. And we know one of the reasons,
we know that with Senate enacted Bill 1, property taxes revenue will go down. The reduction of property
tax funds in this county will impact main services provided by the county such as roads and
health department. It seems clear to me
and by design that the future of lit revenue will need to be used to supplement the county budget.
For mainline services, the capital project needs to be scrapped, in my opinion, due to the changing
revenue basis and the uncertainty of the political climate. Thank you. All right. Looking on teams to
see if anybody has raised their hand.
I don't see any hands raised, so we will return to the NETU Hill Room. Please come forward. The floor
is yours for three minutes. Sorry, I also have things written down because...
Okay, I'm going to try to keep this under three minutes. Hi, my name is Kathleen Paquette. I've been
a resident of Monroe County for 23 years. I'm a small business owner. I'm partnered with a public school
teacher, and I volunteer with a few different organizations in various capacities, including
doing legislative research with Hoosier Action. So consequently, I'm very aware of the financial constraints
placed on us as a result of property tax reform.
as well as generally decreased funding coming down from the federal level for all manner of public goods
and services. I have many, many concerns about this proposed project. I believe everyone currently present
here likely all agree that all of the people who are currently incarcerated in our county jail and who
work in that building deserve better than they have. I'm not convinced, however, that this proposed
project will lead to better outcomes for our community.
First, while I recognize that city and county government are very, very different, I'm noticing a pattern
happening with our government-owned buildings. They all seem to be leaking and have mold. Buildings
require maintenance. The Charlotte Zetlo Justice Building that we're currently using is not old.
40 years is very young for a building. My house is older than that. I'm older than that.
The current building has not been properly cared for. It is a responsibility of the county commission
to maintain our county-owned buildings. What's done is done. We're here to discuss moving forward.
But that doesn't mean we don't learn lessons or atone for the past. The plan presented today covers
construction costs. There's been some mention of the $11 million price tag on the land.
a little bit of discussion about increased operating costs. And also, there is maintenance on a larger
building with a larger footprint with land and a large parking lot. Currently, the city maintains the
nearby parking garage for the Justice Building that we're in. There's no landscaping to speak of.
If we are currently unable to fix leaking pipes in the building we have, why should we as a community
trust that there are resources moving forward
to landscape a sprawling complex, snow plow a giant parking lot. The reality is that we have fewer resources
moving forward thanks to our state and federal government. I do not think it is fair or reasonable to
ask the people who live and pay taxes in and care about this community to trust that we will somehow
find both the will and the resources to do better with less. I have many more concerns, some of which
I'll list quickly in the interest of time. Moving out of our city center affects our economy.
We're moving all kinds of necessary public resources from traffic courts to marriage licenses to early
voting and making them inaccessible except for by car. I personally have a concern that I don't think
is unreasonable in our current environment of potentially empty beds being commandeered by people who
would frankly not like nothing better to come and to own the libs in Bloomington by commandeering potential
detention space.
Just building a capacity with more beds assumes increased incarceration. And we have a declining population.
We have a steady decline in violent crime. I'm sorry, am I out of time? Real quick, I'm just going to
say that we have an opportunity to be a community that invests in care and services. And what's happening
on a national level is, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry I'm out of time. This is a microcosm of what's happening
on a national level.
invest in care rather than locking people away. Thank you for your time. All right, looking for other
folks that wish to make public comments. I'm looking on Teams. Please raise your hand if you'd like
to discuss this very important topic. Seeing none, I'm looking back in that you Hill room. The floor
is yours for three minutes.
Good afternoon, my name is Seth much lower resident of Monroe County. I today I'm actually going to
not speak to you, the council, because I feel like you've all been very gracious in hearing me you know
where I stand on this issue.
I'm not going to speak to you, DLZ, today because I noted that you had stakeholder outreach, but I did
not receive any meetings to any public discussions that you had just with members of the justice community,
nor was I made aware of any meetings with folks with lived experience of incarceration. I'm instead
going to speak to members of the public.
Today's age of rising authoritarianism and fascism, in our age of black and brown folks being rounded
up and detained indefinitely, in an age of social service agencies being seriously worried whether they'll
be in operation this time next year, in an age where it is just every day harder and harder to make ends meet.
If you are out there and you feel that our county needs to be prioritizing housing,
mental health treatment, substance use treatment, food security, and just making it easier to be a resident
in Monroe County, if you feel that instead of building a new mega jail, you are not alone in that feeling.
There are many people who feel that the priorities of this county are going seriously off track.
And so I would invite anybody who feels this way or is just curious to learn more and is sort of like, hmm,
yeah, this doesn't add up to please join Care Not Cages. We are hosting an informational session on Sunday,
September 14th at 2 p.m. at the Monroe County Public Library Auditorium. We will be discussing what's
really going on with incarceration in our county.
What are the alternatives that aren't building a new $225 million jail and how to get involved in setting
the county back on track? Thank you. Thank you for your public comments. The mic is open if you'd like
to make public comment. I'm looking on Teams and not seeing any hands. I'm looking in the NatU Hill Room.
I'm also not seeing anyone come forward. Give it a moment here.
All right. Before we adjourn this meeting, I will remind everyone that the county commissioners meet
on Thursdays. The county council meets on Tuesdays. If you go to IN.gov slash counties slash Monroe,
you'll find a calendar with links to all of our meetings. You can join virtually as well as agendas.
We will continue talking about this very important topic. And the last thing I'll note is if you go
to the county council's website, all of our phone numbers are on there.
All of our emails are on there. Call us, email us. We work for you. This meeting is adjourned.