WEBVTT 00:00:00.386 --> 00:00:07.910 - Good evening, it's 6.01. I'd like to call this meeting to order. My name is Liz Fiddle. I'm the county 00:00:07.910 --> 00:00:15.506 - representative for the Collaborative Justice Project Working Subcommittee. And with me here on the dais 00:00:15.506 --> 00:00:23.103 - is council member, city council member, Sydney Zulek, representing the city council. And Karen Renbeck, 00:00:23.103 --> 00:00:30.334 - representing the public defender's office. And April Wilson, representing the prosecutor's office. 00:00:30.978 --> 00:00:40.469 - and then we have staff here as well with the county. So I think we'd like to adopt the agenda. I believe 00:00:40.469 --> 00:00:49.959 - Ms. Turner-King might have had something to talk about with the agenda. Am I thinking that's right here? 00:00:49.959 --> 00:00:59.902 - Did you have something to talk to about the agenda? You were talking about adopting the agenda at some point. 00:01:16.130 --> 00:01:23.092 - We need to formally amend the agenda. I think Mr. Allen does have an update that he will provide whenever 00:01:23.092 --> 00:01:29.856 - you feel appropriate. Sure. Okay. All right. Great. So can we adopt the agenda as presented here? I'll 00:01:29.856 --> 00:01:36.423 - take a motion. Can I actually move to amend the agenda? Oh, I guess we can talk about it. I there's 00:01:36.423 --> 00:01:43.582 - one metric I wanted to add. And so I just would like to move on the metrics sheet. Is it a question or what? 00:01:44.418 --> 00:01:50.973 - Yes, so I think there's one key one that we left off and it's whether or not it can maintain constitutional 00:01:50.973 --> 00:01:57.588 - standards of care. I just want to make sure that we. Yeah, we'll be we'll be working on the site evaluation. 00:01:57.588 --> 00:02:03.779 - So maybe can we talk about it there and add it there as long as yes, I think adding is I just want to 00:02:03.779 --> 00:02:10.091 - make sure I keep track of the question because all of our metrics don't actually get to that issue that 00:02:10.091 --> 00:02:13.854 - they don't. And so we might pick a site based on the metrics. 00:02:14.242 --> 00:02:23.130 - but ultimately if it can't pass muster of being able to maintain constitutional standards of care. Right. 00:02:23.130 --> 00:02:31.516 - I hear you. So you put it down under the site of an evaluation. Thank you. To add an item. Okay. So 00:02:31.516 --> 00:02:40.069 - can we adopt the agenda as presented for now? I move that we adopt the agenda as presented. I second. 00:02:40.069 --> 00:02:41.662 - All in favor? Aye. 00:02:42.338 --> 00:02:48.969 - Well, I guess we all voted yes, so it doesn't matter. All right. So next on our agenda is the square 00:02:48.969 --> 00:02:55.798 - footage, and I believe that maybe Jeff Cockrell, Attorney Cockrell, might have had something to present 00:02:55.798 --> 00:03:02.626 - there, as I understand. I'm not sure I had something to present, but I did send an email to Kim Schell. 00:03:02.626 --> 00:03:08.798 - You did? Sorry. Yesterday, that I hope got to you, had the minimum square footage, as well as 00:03:11.138 --> 00:03:18.883 - An estimated cost for both the sheriff's side and the other side. I assume that that got sent out. I 00:03:18.883 --> 00:03:26.627 - think I sent it to you yesterday after we talked. Kind of do that. You just sent it to Kim? Yes. And 00:03:26.627 --> 00:03:34.295 - if I need to, I can go print it off and I can recite it. It's not a problem. Is it very long? Would 00:03:34.295 --> 00:03:38.206 - it be okay to go get it? I'll be back in a second. 00:03:39.074 --> 00:03:49.724 - Let me double check. I know that I sent several things off, so I don't want you to... I know that I 00:03:49.724 --> 00:04:01.120 - forwarded... Sorry. I hope I sent it. Got me second guessing it. Well, I don't recall it, but that doesn't 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:02.718 - mean anything. 00:04:04.386 --> 00:04:12.296 - chair wishes I can talk about some public comments that were received at this point while we look for 00:04:12.296 --> 00:04:20.438 - the square footage. That would be great. Thank you. You some economics here. We did receive a few public 00:04:20.438 --> 00:04:28.192 - comments through the form variety of comments. Some of them suggesting new properties generally. So 00:04:28.192 --> 00:04:31.294 - one just kind of talked about a concern 00:04:31.618 --> 00:04:37.648 - If you'd like to know each one, my plan is to also share this with you from a read only so you all can 00:04:37.648 --> 00:04:43.913 - see this. But we received one comment that was basically that this is taking too long. They do not believe 00:04:43.913 --> 00:04:49.826 - that the North Park site was a good fit. The cost of the land is outrageous, and people are tired of 00:04:49.826 --> 00:04:55.739 - higher taxes. And so they wanted to just encourage you to keep going on your mission and exclude the 00:04:55.739 --> 00:04:56.734 - North Park site. 00:04:57.154 --> 00:05:04.542 - We also received extensive comment from Commissioner Jodi Madeira as well talking about the requirements 00:05:04.542 --> 00:05:11.718 - for the lawsuit in regard to the site, which I think I don't know if Commissioner Madeira wants me to 00:05:11.718 --> 00:05:18.965 - necessarily summarize that particular part here. I think that that's been pretty well covered as well. 00:05:18.965 --> 00:05:25.438 - She also had some significant suggestions for metrics to make sure that those are included. 00:05:25.570 --> 00:05:32.204 - as well, which I'm happy to share with the group. Is that different than what we have on our metric 00:05:32.204 --> 00:05:39.037 - form now? Did you know? It critiques various lists of the portions of it. If you'd like me to read it, 00:05:39.037 --> 00:05:45.936 - I'm happy to read it. It would take quite a while to read the full thing. I would be interested to know 00:05:45.936 --> 00:05:51.774 - what's different about what we already have, if there's a way to figure that out. Yeah. 00:05:52.194 --> 00:05:58.579 - The first recommendation is to create a pass fail gate before scoring. A site should not proceed to 00:05:58.579 --> 00:06:05.219 - preference scoring if it's legally impossible or lacks the minimum usable acreage, cannot be controlled 00:06:05.219 --> 00:06:11.732 - in time, or has any fatal environmental floodway problems, or cannot possibly support construction on 00:06:11.732 --> 00:06:18.372 - the litigation timeline. The second recommendation is to weight each of the criteria, so they're scored 00:06:18.372 --> 00:06:21.118 - with different weights, such as, you know, 00:06:21.250 --> 00:06:27.704 - Purchase price and distance to walking paths, et cetera, are parallel weighted. Those are not equal 00:06:27.704 --> 00:06:34.545 - considerations in accordance to Commissioner Madeira. And she is here, so I don't want to mischaracterize 00:06:34.545 --> 00:06:40.999 - anything at all if she wants to at some point approach. But you're reading from what was submitted, 00:06:40.999 --> 00:06:43.710 - right? I'm reading from what's submitted. 00:06:44.066 --> 00:06:51.567 - Require evidence for each answer each site should have an evidence column GIS source owner communication 00:06:51.567 --> 00:06:58.854 - appraisal zoning memo engineer architect opinion utility provider letter environmental report Transit 00:06:58.854 --> 00:07:06.284 - confirmation etc. Without that the matrix can become a set of impressions rather than a defensible work 00:07:06.284 --> 00:07:10.142 - record Weaknesses slash fixes first the quote-unquote 00:07:10.370 --> 00:07:16.235 - Defensible to the court is underdeveloped. The only listed question under that heading is the earliest 00:07:16.235 --> 00:07:22.215 - groundbreaking date. That is important, but court defensibility should include more. Is the site legally 00:07:22.215 --> 00:07:28.023 - available? Is there a documented path to acquisition? Are utilities available on a reliable timeline? 00:07:28.023 --> 00:07:33.205 - Are zoning slash permitted steps ministerial or discretionary? Is the site free from known 00:07:33.205 --> 00:07:38.558 - fatal environmental and floodway obstacles? Can the county show that the site does not create 00:07:38.722 --> 00:07:44.478 - quote, unreasonable delay, unquote, compared with alternatives. Does the site support a facility that 00:07:44.478 --> 00:07:50.122 - actually remedies the unconstitutional conditions? Second, the metrics do not distinguish must-have 00:07:50.122 --> 00:07:55.822 - from nice-to-have. For example, floodway status, minimum usable acreage, and the site control should 00:07:55.822 --> 00:08:01.804 - be threshold questions. Walking paths, future transit, and proximity to services are important but should 00:08:01.804 --> 00:08:05.246 - not be allowed to outweigh the fatal timeline legal barrier. 00:08:06.370 --> 00:08:12.051 - Third, within city limits should be treated as a scope constraint, not a quality metric. Because the 00:08:12.051 --> 00:08:17.845 - subcommittee is charged to evaluate properties within the city limits, that criteria should be a gate. 00:08:17.845 --> 00:08:23.582 - So again, that pass fail gate may be a gate for this committee, but it should not be scored as though 00:08:23.582 --> 00:08:29.433 - being inside the city automatically makes a site operationally or legally superior. Fourth, the owner's 00:08:29.433 --> 00:08:34.270 - willing to sell is too vague. Willing to sell should be replaced or supplemented with 00:08:35.298 --> 00:08:42.451 - Written expression of interest, asking price, appraisal basis, option or purchase agreement, feasibility, 00:08:42.451 --> 00:08:49.266 - title issues, relocation issues, condemnation risk and timeline, likelihood of price escalation once 00:08:49.266 --> 00:08:56.216 - the site is publicly discussed. Fifth, and just to preview this, there are eight total main points and 00:08:56.216 --> 00:09:02.964 - still three more sub points, so this goes on for a little bit more. Thank you. The cost metrics are 00:09:02.964 --> 00:09:03.774 - too narrow. 00:09:04.002 --> 00:09:09.316 - Purchase price is only one part of the cost. The matrix should evaluate total site cost, including 00:09:09.316 --> 00:09:15.006 - acquisition, demolition, relocation of existing occupants, road improvements, utility extension, grading, 00:09:15.006 --> 00:09:20.481 - stormwater, environmental remediation, legal fees, delay, inflation cost, temporary prisoner transfer 00:09:20.481 --> 00:09:26.225 - cost, operational cost over time. Sixth, operational adequacy needs more jail-specific detail. The current 00:09:26.225 --> 00:09:29.982 - metrics ask about 448 beds, single-floor design, co-location transit. 00:09:30.146 --> 00:09:35.890 - Entrances, exits, hospital distance, emergency services, and distance to services. That is useful, but 00:09:35.890 --> 00:09:41.746 - it misses key operational questions such as secure vehicles, Sallyport feasibility, separation of public 00:09:41.746 --> 00:09:47.490 - staff service, detainee circulation, adequate setbacks, secure perimeter, ambulance fire access, staff 00:09:47.490 --> 00:09:53.123 - parking and shift change flow, visitor family access, attorney visitation, medical and mental health 00:09:53.123 --> 00:09:59.257 - space, classification separation intake, release flow, programming space, future expansion without disruption 00:09:59.257 --> 00:10:00.094 - of operations. 00:10:00.482 --> 00:10:06.942 - Seventh, 448 beds should be handled carefully. The metric asks whether the site adequately has usable 00:10:06.942 --> 00:10:12.959 - space for 448 beds. The B-square reports that the number was tied to the 2020 criminal justice 00:10:12.959 --> 00:10:19.355 - and incarceration studies 30-year estimate of 448 to 150 beds by 2049. That may be a useful capacity 00:10:19.355 --> 00:10:25.182 - planning ceiling, but the matrix should avoid making 448 beds look like a policy commitment 00:10:25.314 --> 00:10:31.916 - Better phrasing would be, or can is, can the site accommodate the adopted program, required classification 00:10:31.916 --> 00:10:38.147 - separation, medical mental health programming space, future expansion of capacity if needed. Eighth, 00:10:38.147 --> 00:10:44.687 - renovation plus curry should not be treated as just another site without special scrutiny. If the current 00:10:44.687 --> 00:10:48.574 - jail plus curry is included, the matrix needs extra questions. 00:10:48.866 --> 00:10:54.744 - Can the existing building be made constitutional? Can the renovation occur while the jail remains occupied? 00:10:54.744 --> 00:11:00.241 - What temporary housing transfer plan would be required? What is the cost of phasing? Does renovation 00:11:00.241 --> 00:11:05.684 - create unreasonable delay? Does the existing structure allow modern classification, medical, mental 00:11:05.684 --> 00:11:11.126 - health programming, and staff safety needs? Would the site actually add enough net usable detention 00:11:11.126 --> 00:11:14.174 - and service space? Suggested revised scoring structure. 00:11:14.562 --> 00:11:22.256 - We could divide the matrix into gates and scored criteria, pass fail gates. A site should fail early. 00:11:22.256 --> 00:11:30.026 - And if any of these are not satisfied, the gate questions could be legal feasibility. Just give me one 00:11:30.026 --> 00:11:37.645 - second. I'm sorry. Legal feasibility, my apologies. I'm just trying to deal with a team's issue. The 00:11:37.645 --> 00:11:44.510 - gate question, legal feasibility, is a site legally available for jail justice use without 00:11:44.642 --> 00:11:50.899 - fatal floodway zoning statutory barrier site control can the county obtain control quickly enough through 00:11:50.899 --> 00:11:56.860 - purchase option donation or other documented path minimum usable area does the site meet the minimum 00:11:56.860 --> 00:12:02.881 - usable acreage square footage of the adopted program utility feasibility can water sewer electric gas 00:12:02.881 --> 00:12:09.374 - fiber stormwater needs be met in the required timeline environmental geotechnical feasibility are there known 00:12:09.986 --> 00:12:16.413 - fatal environmental soil floodplain wetland remedial remediation issues litigation timeline can the 00:12:16.413 --> 00:12:23.162 - site plausibly support a court defensible construction schedule. Then weighted scoring after those gates 00:12:23.162 --> 00:12:29.654 - are satisfied suggested weight for each category court defensibility speed to construction should be 00:12:29.654 --> 00:12:31.582 - 25 percent of all the scores. 00:12:31.810 --> 00:12:39.435 - operational adequacy in jail design functionality should be 20 percent legal zoning permitted certainty 00:12:39.435 --> 00:12:47.279 - 15 percent total site development and life cycle cost 15 percent access to courts council services transit 00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:55.344 - families 10 percent expandability resilience and long-term flexibility 10 percent evidence quality confidence 00:12:55.344 --> 00:13:01.502 - level 5 percent that concludes her significant comments and then just as additional 00:13:01.794 --> 00:13:09.658 - We received additional comments of additional sites. Those included two recommendations for the former 00:13:09.658 --> 00:13:17.446 - hospital site, so the Hopewell sites has been split up. We also had some significant suggestions from 00:13:17.446 --> 00:13:25.157 - city council member Flaherty, including some new properties and including some that you have already 00:13:25.157 --> 00:13:30.654 - considered. Those include the convention center parking lot that's just 00:13:31.010 --> 00:13:37.771 - West of the beeline, which I believe is county owned the city hall parking lot. So the parking 00:13:37.771 --> 00:13:45.031 - lot immediately in front of city hall off of Morton street hope well again and then A privately owned 00:13:45.031 --> 00:13:51.294 - site. There have been two sites recommended for for that are currently in private hands 00:13:51.458 --> 00:13:56.215 - My recommendation and of course this board does not have to follow my recommendation but my 00:13:56.215 --> 00:14:01.697 - best recommendation would be for those properties that are owned privately. We may want to set 30 minutes 00:14:01.697 --> 00:14:07.075 - aside to meet an executive session just to discuss those properties in their details. That way you know 00:14:07.075 --> 00:14:12.246 - we avoid some of the problems that we talked about before. Of course that's a discussion matter for 00:14:12.246 --> 00:14:17.417 - you all but we did receive at least two suggestions. One from the site owner themselves in terms of 00:14:17.417 --> 00:14:20.830 - private property that could be available and then another is just 00:14:21.058 --> 00:14:28.500 - the community member observed underutilized space. Thank you. And might you know on the two additional 00:14:28.500 --> 00:14:35.870 - ones that may or may not need a meeting, do you know if they're in the city? They're both in the city 00:14:35.870 --> 00:14:43.385 - as I recall. It's possible one isn't, but I think they're both in the city. Okay. Thank you. And I just 00:14:43.385 --> 00:14:47.070 - maybe a slight other detail is I understand we are 00:14:47.874 --> 00:14:53.501 - just for the sake of the operation of this board. We are working on getting you those details. So as 00:14:53.501 --> 00:14:59.129 - Commissioner Madeira had recommended, some of those details are important obviously that are already 00:14:59.129 --> 00:15:02.750 - on your metrics. We think it's important to have those in a very 00:15:02.914 --> 00:15:07.757 - usable summary format that's uniform. So that is something we are going to work on and to hopefully 00:15:07.757 --> 00:15:12.599 - provide to you by the next meeting Monday is that you'll have every site listed with those details, 00:15:12.599 --> 00:15:17.442 - including what the current zoning is, what their responsibility was, is it historically designated, 00:15:17.442 --> 00:15:22.381 - what the parcel is, is it in private hands, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. There are obviously some 00:15:22.381 --> 00:15:27.272 - answers that we won't know. Some of those are very detailed construction questions, just due to that 00:15:27.272 --> 00:15:31.582 - would be farther down the line, but we'll provide the information that we possibly have. 00:15:32.130 --> 00:15:39.066 - Thank you for the I hope it'll be ready by next Monday's meeting, right? I will make sure that it's 00:15:39.066 --> 00:15:46.003 - ready for next month. Thank you so much. That's very useful. Did you know we're under we're under a 00:15:46.003 --> 00:15:53.078 - tight timeline. So there was a lot to hear here. I'd like to hear what you all are thinking about the 00:15:53.078 --> 00:16:00.222 - whole list of things that were presented that Larry read from Commissioner Madura. Is there a comment? 00:16:01.570 --> 00:16:08.337 - feedback on that at this point. Personally, I'm really appreciative for all the public comments that 00:16:08.337 --> 00:16:15.438 - we've received. My first feedback is I know Mr. Allen shared that he's going to send them to us. I didn't 00:16:15.438 --> 00:16:22.473 - receive anything from Councillor Flaherty yet, so if we could all receive a copy of them, I'd appreciate 00:16:22.473 --> 00:16:25.086 - it. Yeah, we were getting those today. 00:16:25.250 --> 00:16:30.726 - My thought, again, is to have the read-only spreadsheet. So you'll just be able to see them as they 00:16:30.726 --> 00:16:36.311 - come in so you can look. You just can't comment with each other. Right. That'd be great. Read-only is 00:16:36.311 --> 00:16:41.896 - fine. So since there's so much to review, would it be OK if we can kind of digest those new comments, 00:16:41.896 --> 00:16:47.482 - start our site evaluations? And if we need to add metrics, we can do that along the way. It'll let us 00:16:47.482 --> 00:16:50.110 - fine tune. Right. Some of them I think we have. 00:16:50.274 --> 00:16:56.661 - pretty good capture of some of them that were on here is I mean I wasn't looking at it wasn't comparing 00:16:56.661 --> 00:17:02.987 - everything is they were all read off but I thought there were some that may have been at least similar 00:17:02.987 --> 00:17:09.313 - so we can fine tune them maybe and add others right that what you're thinking right right anybody else 00:17:09.313 --> 00:17:15.823 - have anything on that yes based on attorney Allen's comments I'm wondering if everyone would be available 00:17:15.823 --> 00:17:19.262 - at 530 on Monday to have an executive session or at 515 00:17:19.490 --> 00:17:25.862 - make sure we have enough time to do the transition, but to have that executive session to discuss the 00:17:25.862 --> 00:17:32.234 - private property. Briefly. One issue is probably Monday's not going to be available to you because of 00:17:32.234 --> 00:17:38.793 - the 48-hour rule, because Friday's a holiday, and so we don't have the 48 hours at this point. You could 00:17:38.793 --> 00:17:45.353 - meet after the meeting and executive session, but we'd have to post it literally now, as the clock runs. 00:17:45.353 --> 00:17:48.414 - So Wednesday is a more viable option. I'm sorry. 00:17:48.514 --> 00:17:53.743 - Are we not meeting on Thursday? It's possible Thursday. Thursday. Actually, it's Thursday. 00:17:53.743 --> 00:17:59.603 - It's not Wednesday. It's not Wednesday. Boston, the fruit's out of my mouth. Is the Naughty Hill Room 00:17:59.603 --> 00:18:05.579 - available at 515 on Thursday next? I believe it's July 9th. I think typically you would do an executive 00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:11.497 - session in a different meeting room. Oh, a conference room. We can do it in my conference room. Great. 00:18:11.497 --> 00:18:16.094 - Thank you. Are you all available? I think so, but let me check. What day is it? 00:18:16.386 --> 00:18:31.844 - So Thursday the 9th at 515 in the HR Council conference room. And do you know where that is? So you 00:18:31.844 --> 00:18:43.902 - know where the council office is. There's a conference room right next to it. 00:18:45.410 --> 00:18:53.562 - That's 306, right? The council office is 306. That will be the executive session. I have 15. Okay. 00:18:53.562 --> 00:19:02.207 - All right. So that brings us to thank you, Jeff, for giving me the information about the square footage. 00:19:02.207 --> 00:19:10.606 - Should I just read that, you think, or do you want to read it for us? I could just go through it real 00:19:10.606 --> 00:19:13.982 - briefly. That would be great. Thank you. 00:19:14.626 --> 00:19:21.843 - I think that we have, when we, and these are all from a document, which I think you did. Yeah, 00:19:21.843 --> 00:19:29.515 - I just came, I just printed it. Yeah, so all these numbers came from that document, and there's more 00:19:29.515 --> 00:19:37.188 - in there, so dig into your heart's content. The total score, that document's from August 20th, 2025, 00:19:37.188 --> 00:19:41.214 - so it probably is not the most up-to-date, accurate, 00:19:42.146 --> 00:19:49.854 - If we had gone through the final process that we were working on finishing in December, so there might 00:19:49.854 --> 00:19:57.488 - be some slight changes, but I think it's a good baseline for what we're talking about here. The total 00:19:57.488 --> 00:20:05.420 - planned square foot for the joint facility was 237,316 square feet. And the total building, the estimated 00:20:05.420 --> 00:20:08.414 - cost, construction cost was 194 million 00:20:08.866 --> 00:20:20.342 - $90,689 that did not include a little over $30 million of soft costs and soft costs would include things 00:20:20.342 --> 00:20:32.036 - such as purchase price of the property and furniture and a lot of other things. I think maybe even utility 00:20:32.036 --> 00:20:33.566 - work as well. 00:20:33.762 --> 00:20:45.131 - of that, the budget for the construction of the sheriff and jail space was for 123,455 square feet and 00:20:45.131 --> 00:20:55.838 - that budget was the estimate was $122,256,182. I'm not positive if that included any of the site 00:20:56.610 --> 00:21:04.609 - I mean, if you look in the document, it's a little unclear. With the remaining 113,861 square feet, 00:21:04.609 --> 00:21:12.928 - or were associated with the courts in the justice-related department, and that estimated cost was going 00:21:12.928 --> 00:21:20.927 - to be $71,834,507. I would say that we've been told by the estimator all along that for every year, 00:21:20.927 --> 00:21:26.206 - you're going to look at 5% to 10% increase in construction costs. 00:21:26.306 --> 00:21:34.389 - So that is a factor. The other thing I included in the email is we talked about jail transport. And 00:21:34.389 --> 00:21:42.715 - so we actually not too long ago, the jail did purchase a transportation van and it was about $105,000. 00:21:42.715 --> 00:21:51.364 - And so in the starting jail staff is approximately $30 an hour, $29.99. When we were looking at transport, 00:21:51.364 --> 00:21:55.486 - we were thinking of maybe six swing shifts in this 00:21:56.226 --> 00:22:02.285 - different aspect of this, but I'm not sure it would be needed for this portion. And we were looking 00:22:02.285 --> 00:22:08.768 - at it, it'd be about $500,000 for the personnel side if you needed six people. Again, when we were looking 00:22:08.768 --> 00:22:14.827 - at that, we were thinking, what happens if we have to transport people out of county and bring them 00:22:14.827 --> 00:22:20.946 - back? And so that was what we were thinking about with that estimate, but I think it's a number that 00:22:20.946 --> 00:22:23.006 - you guys should be made aware of. 00:22:26.306 --> 00:22:33.331 - I do have some questions if you don't mind. I guess just starting at the end of the memo, so what, could 00:22:33.331 --> 00:22:40.089 - we find out what the annual cost of each jail employee would be, including benefits, because I think 00:22:40.089 --> 00:22:47.181 - that's what the budget would require. Could we get that? That $500,000 figure, I have it on a spreadsheet 00:22:47.181 --> 00:22:53.938 - in my office. That would be for six. I could just take a six of that to get that number, and that is 00:22:53.938 --> 00:22:54.942 - for a starting 00:22:55.810 --> 00:23:03.553 - jail staff, right? Yes. I think the answer is the cost of employment of that would be easy to find out. 00:23:03.553 --> 00:23:11.446 - Okay. And then when you talk about a jail transport van, how many people would be able to be transported? 00:23:11.446 --> 00:23:18.966 - I'd have to talk with the jail staff about that. No idea. And so these are only six employees needed 00:23:18.966 --> 00:23:23.582 - to be on the transport van from go to one place to the other. 00:23:23.778 --> 00:23:31.986 - this is not additional staff that might be needed once they get to that location. In the context of 00:23:31.986 --> 00:23:40.194 - what you guys are looking on, I can't answer that question. I don't know how that would be. I guess 00:23:40.194 --> 00:23:48.402 - in my mind, if I am the person responsible, and we'd have to talk to the jail transition team about 00:23:48.402 --> 00:23:50.782 - the answer to this question. 00:23:51.074 --> 00:23:56.732 - completely, but if we're going out of county, it's going to be a longer trip, and so therefore, I'm 00:23:56.732 --> 00:24:02.391 - not sure if they couldn't do double duty and transport in, stay with the person through their court 00:24:02.391 --> 00:24:08.049 - time, and then transport back out. Whether that needs to be two different shifts, one shift, I just 00:24:08.049 --> 00:24:13.877 - don't know. That would be a question for them. The jail transition team? We could send an email to the 00:24:13.877 --> 00:24:16.254 - jail transition team to get more details. 00:24:18.530 --> 00:24:25.323 - Can I keep going? I do have some more if you don't mind. Yes, I think so. Go ahead. Okay. So it says 00:24:25.323 --> 00:24:32.250 - the total square footage of the planned facility, and I have that. I was hopeful that we could get per 00:24:32.250 --> 00:24:39.043 - department and the shared spaces. And I know there's a version of that. When I was watching the CATS 00:24:39.043 --> 00:24:40.254 - meeting from 225, 00:24:40.610 --> 00:24:46.889 - about seven minutes and 50 seconds into that video, DLC during their presentation puts up a building 00:24:46.889 --> 00:24:53.105 - programming spreadsheet in which they were like, this is a sampling and this spreadsheet shows what 00:24:53.105 --> 00:24:59.384 - the square footage is for each of the departments. It would be helpful to know those if we're trying 00:24:59.384 --> 00:25:04.606 - to come up with creative solutions and what square footage we need for the project. 00:25:04.706 --> 00:25:11.361 - I could not find those yesterday when I sent this email, but I think I have those now, so I can forward 00:25:11.361 --> 00:25:17.824 - that to Kim and she can process it through this evening still. Oh, perfect. And I just want you guys 00:25:17.824 --> 00:25:24.351 - to be aware is that these numbers, these numbers that we talked about, those would include all shared 00:25:24.351 --> 00:25:30.878 - spaces, hallways, bathrooms. I think when you look at department-specific spaces, the numbers will be 00:25:30.878 --> 00:25:33.886 - smaller than the total because of that, right? 00:25:34.658 --> 00:25:41.000 - 70 or 113,000 square feet divvied up amongst all the departments, it will be, some of that's divvied 00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:47.594 - up, but the hallways and things would not be assigned necessarily to any department. I think I'm hopeful 00:25:47.594 --> 00:25:53.873 - if I get the spreadsheet I could do the math and maybe show my work and you can correct me if I've. 00:25:53.873 --> 00:26:00.279 - And my last question was when we're, I think frequently talk about the project, we talk about sheriff 00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:03.230 - and jail. And I was trying to be very specific 00:26:04.322 --> 00:26:13.631 - I understand what we're talking about. When we talk about building the jail, I'm thinking literally 00:26:13.631 --> 00:26:23.126 - the jail and jail administration. Then the sheriff is separate really from that in some ways. So when 00:26:23.126 --> 00:26:31.038 - you talk about the sheriff in the jail space, the budget was $122 million in change. 00:26:31.266 --> 00:26:38.050 - Can you tell me how much was that for the jail and jail administration versus the sheriff's office? 00:26:38.050 --> 00:26:45.105 - What I plan to send you has the square footage, I think, for the jail and the sheriff's spaces. I don't 00:26:45.105 --> 00:26:52.024 - know what the cost difference allocation between those are. If you look at the material, it basically 00:26:52.024 --> 00:26:56.094 - talks about the sheriff's space, including the jail and the 00:26:56.354 --> 00:27:04.116 - non-sheriff's face, a justice face. So I don't have it broken down between sheriff and jail. Is there 00:27:04.116 --> 00:27:09.214 - someone we could follow up with to find out what the breakdown is? 00:27:16.098 --> 00:27:23.161 - I think the person who I would talk to if we still had them under contract and we still had the ability 00:27:23.161 --> 00:27:29.953 - to compensate them would be the WGS group who is the estimators for this. They would be the one who 00:27:29.953 --> 00:27:36.812 - put together all these numbers and said this is what it's going to cost. The county doesn't have any 00:27:36.812 --> 00:27:41.566 - spreadsheets that we could look at that we could maybe figure it out. 00:27:42.594 --> 00:27:52.551 - I think what you have is probably the closest. I can look for additional, but I'm not sure. I don't 00:27:52.551 --> 00:28:02.906 - recall ever breaking out the sheriff from the jail space. Thank you. I appreciate it. Anyone else? This 00:28:02.906 --> 00:28:09.278 - design, the numbers you have, this was a single story, correct? 00:28:10.178 --> 00:28:18.353 - There was no double stories anywhere in this one? Not the Justice Building, sorry. I know that was double 00:28:18.353 --> 00:28:26.065 - stories or two stories, but just the jail part. The jail part would have... I don't consider it two 00:28:26.065 --> 00:28:34.008 - stories, but there would be a mezzanine level where the staff would be so that they could see into the 00:28:34.008 --> 00:28:38.558 - secured areas. So it's not a... The jail itself would have 00:28:42.466 --> 00:28:47.982 - the current situation where they're staying on two different floors in the same block is what you're 00:28:47.982 --> 00:28:53.444 - saying. I kind of want to make sure I'm extremely clear on this because if you walk into a block in 00:28:53.444 --> 00:28:59.124 - the current jail, there's one level of cells and there's a second level of cells. I think that remains. 00:28:59.124 --> 00:29:04.804 - What I don't think is that you have one level of cells, second level of cells, another floor, one level 00:29:04.804 --> 00:29:10.430 - of cells, second level of cells. Okay. So when we say single story, we do mean potentially two floors. 00:29:10.562 --> 00:29:17.565 - just not in the same way that it is now. Two housing floors, one floor for common area. Yes. Okay. 00:29:17.565 --> 00:29:25.064 - I gotcha. Okay. That is my understanding. Okay. In the course of all the discussions with cost estimates, 00:29:25.064 --> 00:29:32.491 - did the county commissioners or county council receive any estimates regarding multiple floors, multiple 00:29:32.491 --> 00:29:35.038 - floored jail? Not for the jail, no. 00:29:53.346 --> 00:30:07.510 - Okay, we're good I think. Okay. So now we have that. Thank you for presenting this to us. No problem. 00:30:07.510 --> 00:30:21.118 - So now on the data, I guess we're on to side evaluations maybe, no? Yeah. So we have, I gave you, 00:30:21.474 --> 00:30:30.263 - The staff printed out a copy of the most recent updated site metrics evaluation, which includes an address 00:30:30.263 --> 00:30:38.724 - or near address where it may be close to an intersection. So how, shall we just go through it? Is that 00:30:38.724 --> 00:30:47.678 - the best way or do you have a priority as far as doing different areas first or second or third or whatever? 00:30:47.678 --> 00:30:50.142 - You have two recommendations. 00:30:50.370 --> 00:30:56.271 - Oh, that's right, you do it, I forgot. So the first one is, I was hopeful that any properties that we 00:30:56.271 --> 00:31:02.057 - receive to evaluate would be included on the spreadsheet. And even if they ultimately get screened, 00:31:02.057 --> 00:31:08.132 - I just wanted one place for the public to be able to look to know everything that was suggested. I heard 00:31:08.132 --> 00:31:14.033 - a few tonight. I know that Attorney General is gathering those, but by next meeting, with permission, 00:31:14.033 --> 00:31:18.430 - if I could just add those into the spreadsheet so that we don't lose track. 00:31:20.418 --> 00:31:26.912 - I think it's fine to put them out there in the same spreadsheet, no? Yeah. If they're private, I will 00:31:26.912 --> 00:31:33.469 - not name them. I'll just simply say private site one, private site two. I'm happy to do that so we can 00:31:33.469 --> 00:31:40.217 - provide that for the next time. And yeah, we'll give some sort of designation for any private site that's 00:31:40.217 --> 00:31:45.310 - added. Perfect. Then I was hoping we could add the question if it, as a metric, 00:31:45.538 --> 00:31:51.426 - whether or not it can maintain constitutional standards of care. That's right. And where would that 00:31:51.426 --> 00:31:57.432 - fit in, you think? I think it would actually be a screening question. Screening, OK. I recognize that 00:31:57.432 --> 00:32:03.496 - there are many components to reaching constitutional standards of care. For example, if we look at the 00:32:03.496 --> 00:32:09.620 - ACLU letter that I shared with everyone on Monday, I think we get some of that information there, which 00:32:09.620 --> 00:32:15.390 - I'm hoping we can share on the county website for the subcommittee if we can. And the Ray report. 00:32:15.586 --> 00:32:21.244 - I'm just concerned that we may pick a site that can't reach those standards. What would the screening 00:32:21.244 --> 00:32:26.846 - question say on our form here? Does it meet constitutional care or something like that? It meets the 00:32:26.846 --> 00:32:32.504 - constitutional standards of care. Can the property, shall we say, can the property, will the property 00:32:32.504 --> 00:32:34.334 - meet? That's a great suggestion. 00:32:44.770 --> 00:32:52.428 - that you sent me that I would send those properties to you once I had them but it sounds like mr. Allen 00:32:52.428 --> 00:32:59.792 - is gonna be able to do that for me okay sorry I was looking for something so misunderstood and then 00:32:59.792 --> 00:33:07.230 - my last suggestion would be we start with the screening questions specifically the floodway question 00:33:08.290 --> 00:33:15.674 - because I think we learned Ms. Turner-Kings was sharing with us the floodway conversation, which if 00:33:15.674 --> 00:33:23.206 - anyone needs from the public would like to hear that again, we could do that. But my understanding is 00:33:23.206 --> 00:33:31.033 - we cannot build a jail within a floodway because it's a property where someone is in a boat while they'll 00:33:31.033 --> 00:33:38.270 - be sleeping. That would be my suggestion if you're. So that's the first question you think still. 00:33:38.882 --> 00:33:47.101 - And then where does this new one we just added fit? The question would be the third question under the 00:33:47.101 --> 00:33:55.639 - screening questions. We have basically 312 if I wrote it up above. Okay. So is the property on a floodway? 00:33:55.639 --> 00:34:03.619 - Shall we start there? I have another question though. I don't think Monroe Hospital is in the city. 00:34:03.619 --> 00:34:05.374 - Can you confirm that? 00:34:05.730 --> 00:34:11.889 - I think I had two questions about that one. One, are you really talking about Monroe Hospital or are 00:34:11.889 --> 00:34:18.109 - you talking about the property south of Monroe Hospital? I thought we were talking about the property 00:34:18.109 --> 00:34:24.268 - south of Monroe Hospital. Okay. It is not in City Women's, if that's your question. Okay. Yeah. So I 00:34:24.268 --> 00:34:30.609 - thought that column should probably be deleted if we're not keeping non-city properties. Right. I think 00:34:30.609 --> 00:34:34.878 - in some ways, I think that's what we ought to do first for me. Right. 00:34:35.842 --> 00:34:42.083 - We move up question B2, which says within city limits, move that up to a screening question, that'd 00:34:42.083 --> 00:34:48.761 - be screening question four, and just say within city limits. But parentheses by county council resolution, 00:34:48.761 --> 00:34:54.565 - because the within city limits was because county council put that in the resolution forming 00:34:54.565 --> 00:35:00.493 - the subcommittee. We have not evaluated it, we have not made a determination on that they did. 00:35:00.493 --> 00:35:04.862 - So I just, I think my concern is if we keep non-city columns in here, 00:35:05.154 --> 00:35:11.967 - like we can just keep adding columns to infinity. We didn't choose the mandates of how we came to be 00:35:11.967 --> 00:35:18.713 - in the subcommittee, but I do think, and I understand keeping North Park, I suppose, for comparison 00:35:18.713 --> 00:35:25.729 - purposes, I think I'd suggest moving it all the way to the right, just so it's kind of in its own zone, 00:35:25.729 --> 00:35:32.812 - perhaps, because that is the property that's kind of been evaluated maybe the most already. But in terms 00:35:32.812 --> 00:35:35.038 - of Monroe Hospital or any other, 00:35:35.138 --> 00:35:41.571 - I think all the rest of these are in city limits, but if I missed one, I apologize, but I think anything 00:35:41.571 --> 00:35:47.698 - other than North Park should be struck. I just don't think it's productive to be listing, because I 00:35:47.698 --> 00:35:53.824 - mean, there's 10 more things we could add on this list that have been evaluated previously. I mean, 00:35:53.824 --> 00:36:00.258 - we talked about several of them, and I don't know. I just think we can draw a line somewhere, but that's 00:36:00.258 --> 00:36:01.054 - my position. 00:36:02.786 --> 00:36:10.884 - going to make a motion or where I would move to strike Monroe Hospital and move North Park like to the 00:36:10.884 --> 00:36:19.060 - furthest right on this column and maybe you know just somehow mark that it's for comparison only second 00:36:19.060 --> 00:36:27.000 - okay all those in favor I I'm gonna pose it I think miss Renbeck is completely right about how there 00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:30.302 - could be several on here the reason I'm a 00:36:30.498 --> 00:36:36.141 - I'm opposing it because I was hopeful there would be one spreadsheet the community can go to and say 00:36:36.141 --> 00:36:41.951 - what sites have been suggested. It will be screened out so we won't do the evaluation, but I'm opposing 00:36:41.951 --> 00:36:47.650 - it because I don't want members of the community to have to go through hundreds of documents and CATS 00:36:47.650 --> 00:36:53.628 - videos to be able to figure out what we did. So that's the only reason. Let me offer a friendly suggestion 00:36:53.628 --> 00:36:59.774 - here maybe. Can it be shaded or something so that we know it's not available? That column, that whole column? 00:37:00.642 --> 00:37:06.916 - Well, to indicate to the public that it was on there, but we're not considering it now. We talked about 00:37:06.916 --> 00:37:13.130 - a cover letter too. So if we want to include a list in the cover letter of, you know, other properties 00:37:13.130 --> 00:37:19.162 - that were, we could not consider because they were not in the, you know, other properties that have 00:37:19.162 --> 00:37:25.255 - been considered previously, but are not in the city. So we could not consider them. Right. Because I 00:37:25.255 --> 00:37:30.142 - know there's several. Something like that. I don't know. Maybe the cover letter. 00:37:30.466 --> 00:37:36.556 - Here are the ones we are aware of. Mr. Cockrell at our first meeting, I think, you know, it's already 00:37:36.556 --> 00:37:42.347 - listed some of them. We already have them. Okay. Colonel Pike and a few others, I think he said. 00:37:42.347 --> 00:37:48.378 - Colonel Pike, there's one that's called the one really far south and then the Monroe Hospital. Yeah. 00:37:48.378 --> 00:37:54.587 - The hospital or the three that. So then maybe that's a place they could be. The north parts. Accessible 00:37:54.587 --> 00:37:57.214 - to the public, but not necessarily on here. 00:37:57.794 --> 00:38:03.793 - I think that's fair. I would agree with that. If we voted on that, I would. So do you want to make it 00:38:03.793 --> 00:38:09.851 - a friendly amendment? I would make a motion, then. Well, I'm going to keep my previous motion. I think 00:38:09.851 --> 00:38:15.673 - it's been voted on. But wait, can we? I'm sorry. Previous motion has already been voted on. Right. 00:38:15.673 --> 00:38:21.966 - Can we? We've done this before. We could be in the draw. I'm going to amend my motion. Can we not withdraw 00:38:21.966 --> 00:38:23.966 - them? You can vote it on. OK. OK. 00:38:24.194 --> 00:38:29.513 - You could just do a motion to reconsider. Okay, thank you. I knew there was some other terminology. 00:38:29.513 --> 00:38:34.938 - Sure, then I guess I do a motion to reconsider and just continue to strike Monroe, move North Park to 00:38:34.938 --> 00:38:40.683 - the far right, and then include a section in our cover letter that describes a list of the other properties 00:38:40.683 --> 00:38:46.002 - that are not in the city that have been considered previously. So it's all in one location. Second. 00:38:46.002 --> 00:38:51.321 - All right. So all those in favor of the, what did we call that? I motion to reconsider. Reconsider, 00:38:51.321 --> 00:38:53.502 - that's the term. To reconsider, say aye. 00:38:53.762 --> 00:39:06.150 - Opposed. Okay. We have come to terms with that. Thank you. Now we're down to. So do we. Are we are we 00:39:06.150 --> 00:39:18.538 - thinking about. Hospital was or wasn't in the city. It is not. So that one stays in or goes out. That 00:39:18.538 --> 00:39:23.518 - goes out. Okay. Thank you. West side of. 00:39:23.650 --> 00:39:32.375 - Yes, I know where it is. I just want to make sure I got the city criteria right. Yeah. Well, it's like 00:39:32.375 --> 00:39:41.438 - south of the hospital too. Yeah. All right. So let's reaffirm where we're at with the number of properties 00:39:41.438 --> 00:39:49.909 - we have left. 11 plus North Park, but that doesn't include the ones Mr. Allen's going to add. Okay. 00:39:49.909 --> 00:39:52.958 - So are we all on the same page now? 00:39:53.858 --> 00:40:00.682 - Okay, he has I think he I think four though, right? You said city parking convention parking and then 00:40:00.682 --> 00:40:07.440 - to private And then to private for potentially more. Okay. Okay. All right So now are we down to the 00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:14.265 - is the property in a floodway or by my keeping track? All right. Yes Okay, so Start from the left and 00:40:14.265 --> 00:40:21.290 - work our way to the right I mean, I guess I'd ask if anyone from any of the legal's know if any of these 00:40:21.290 --> 00:40:23.230 - properties are in a floodway 00:40:23.426 --> 00:40:32.319 - off the top of their heads. I think the Bloomington tarantula garage is so it's partially in the floodway. 00:40:32.319 --> 00:40:40.962 - The eastern most edge of the transit property is in 100 year floodway. So it's not it's not in the most 00:40:40.962 --> 00:40:45.118 - volatile floodway area. It's on the fringe of it. 00:40:47.106 --> 00:40:54.622 - And some of the documents I think we presented before have shown the maps of those, right? The various 00:40:54.622 --> 00:41:01.991 - floodways. So those have been in previous agenda, or yeah, packets. Okay. So the next one, the Curry 00:41:01.991 --> 00:41:09.288 - Building? I don't think, I think the next one on the list that may or may not be is, I know part of 00:41:09.288 --> 00:41:13.374 - the HT building is in a floodplain, but I don't know if 00:41:14.594 --> 00:41:22.358 - I guess I don't know if that necessarily precludes you from being able to build the jail. I do think 00:41:22.358 --> 00:41:30.276 - it, my memory is that it might preclude you from being able to co-locate both the jail and the justice 00:41:30.276 --> 00:41:38.425 - facility on that site. I don't know how you want to answer that. Was the ruling on floodways not directly 00:41:38.425 --> 00:41:43.422 - related to people inhabiting a boat? Would that not be the jail? 00:41:43.554 --> 00:41:50.892 - Part of the property is, but I think there's enough room outside the floodway that you could still build 00:41:50.892 --> 00:41:58.159 - the facility. Okay. Thank you. But not enough room to build justice departments. Correct. I'm not sure. 00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:05.218 - I think the property's just not big enough for both uses. Maybe this is a dumb question, but justice 00:42:05.218 --> 00:42:10.878 - departments can be built in the floodway. They can. Correct. No one lives there. 00:42:11.106 --> 00:42:18.164 - I don't know if that's advisable, but it's possible. And also, thank you. I drive by that building every 00:42:18.164 --> 00:42:25.289 - day when I go home. The floodway is a floodway, and I don't think you want to build on that. The question 00:42:25.289 --> 00:42:32.079 - then is, if we re-envision this, is there a way to build both of those on there? For this particular 00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:39.002 - site, yeah. The issue is not just a floodway. It's the hidden creek that runs behind there. So there's 00:42:39.002 --> 00:42:40.414 - a significant slope. 00:42:40.514 --> 00:42:46.997 - on the western edge of that property that goes down into a literal waterway. So that's why it's partially 00:42:46.997 --> 00:42:53.175 - in the floodplain. So that's what Mr. Cockrell's speaking about. It's not really, it's not buildable 00:42:53.175 --> 00:42:59.597 - space. All the buildable space is probably, just looking at the map, is outside of the floodplain. Okay. 00:42:59.597 --> 00:43:01.310 - How would we describe that? 00:43:03.042 --> 00:43:11.823 - Yes, asterisks. I think it's good to be specific and then to the extent we can estimate how much acreage 00:43:11.823 --> 00:43:20.520 - is actually buildable, that would be another criteria for you all to consider. Thank you. And the other 00:43:20.520 --> 00:43:28.882 - one I think is the south of post office I believe is in a flood. That one is in flood? Pretty sure, 00:43:28.882 --> 00:43:32.478 - yes. I think it's the same floodway as the 00:43:32.610 --> 00:43:40.683 - as the transit garage. Are those the only properties that are in a floodway that are on the list? Out 00:43:40.683 --> 00:43:48.755 - of all the properties on the list, are those the only properties in a floodway? That I'm aware of. So 00:43:48.755 --> 00:43:56.828 - there's pretty much three, is that right? Could we please verify that by the next meeting? Thank you. 00:43:56.828 --> 00:44:02.526 - Oh, north and south, OK. So the only ones that would then be eliminated 00:44:02.786 --> 00:44:10.687 - south of Post Office, HT building, with an asterisk, and then Bloomington Transit Garage. Right. So 00:44:10.687 --> 00:44:18.587 - we have those three. The rest of them remain, right? Okay. All right. The next one is, are we ready 00:44:18.587 --> 00:44:26.014 - to move on to the next one? I'm ready to go. Okay. Is the owner willing to sell the property? 00:44:30.114 --> 00:44:37.266 - other information that we may or may not know about up here? I guess my response is, I'm not sure how 00:44:37.266 --> 00:44:44.278 - we want to answer the things that the county currently already owns, because I don't know if that's 00:44:44.278 --> 00:44:51.360 - a yes or a no. I would say it's not applicable. I think it's not applicable, yes. So I would say the 00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:58.302 - Curry building and the renovations of current building with Curry would be not applicable. I think 00:45:00.450 --> 00:45:10.257 - would be not applicable? I guess when I spoke with the people at IU, they had plans for the Bloomington 00:45:10.257 --> 00:45:19.969 - Transit garage. So at that point in time, I guess I would say no. Does IU actually own that? Ah, okay. 00:45:19.969 --> 00:45:27.230 - A fell iron bender. I don't know for certain, but I think one of the reasons 00:45:27.554 --> 00:45:33.862 - One of the few reasons we really quit looking at it is that we understood that it was going through 00:45:33.862 --> 00:45:40.360 - the city planning process, at least the fell iron was. And so I believe that site had sold, so I would 00:45:40.360 --> 00:45:46.794 - be skeptical whether that would be available for sale, but I have not talked to whoever purchased it. 00:45:46.794 --> 00:45:53.229 - I think it ended up in the property transfer section, as I remember. I think it was going through the 00:45:53.229 --> 00:45:56.446 - city planning process when we began looking at it. 00:45:56.962 --> 00:46:05.551 - And so we kind of backed away because if it was going to be reused. So I'm guessing it's not for sale 00:46:05.551 --> 00:46:14.560 - because they already just sold. Just for transparency then, could we confirm that between the next meeting 00:46:14.560 --> 00:46:23.486 - and we can just leave that blank until we know for certain? City legal. Thank you. In regard to Hopewell. 00:46:25.474 --> 00:46:32.540 - That would be up to the Redevelopment Commission, who I have not spoken to them recently, but I believe 00:46:32.540 --> 00:46:39.470 - the last time they took up the issue, they voted it down. Can you help me a little bit with Hopewell? 00:46:39.470 --> 00:46:46.264 - This is where I guess, and this is probably my own ignorance, so I need the education. I thought of 00:46:46.264 --> 00:46:48.574 - Hopewell as one kind of monolith. 00:46:48.802 --> 00:46:55.254 - My understanding is it's actually three different segments and we talked about this in a prior meeting 00:46:55.254 --> 00:47:01.517 - but would you mind kind of explaining what the multiple segments are because we're talking about it 00:47:01.517 --> 00:47:07.844 - like it's only one. Well I'm probably not the most well equipped to explain that in detail but there 00:47:07.844 --> 00:47:14.608 - are three different properties all are I believe in different stages of the zoning process. The Bloomington 00:47:14.608 --> 00:47:16.926 - City Council just approved the south 00:47:17.314 --> 00:47:27.136 - parcel to be under a PUD for development. I, truth be told, do not know the exact status update of the 00:47:27.136 --> 00:47:36.671 - other two properties, but I believe this did come to the Redevelopment Commission not recently, but 00:47:36.671 --> 00:47:46.302 - in the past few years, and I believe they declined to sell either of them. But I follow up with RDC. 00:47:46.978 --> 00:47:54.315 - And when you say either it's south, east, or is it west? So the south property is what we just voted 00:47:54.315 --> 00:48:01.651 - on. And then I believe they're the east and west properties. And I guess when we were looking, and I 00:48:01.651 --> 00:48:08.915 - don't know the city's nomenclature for where we're, but when we were looking at it, we were looking 00:48:08.915 --> 00:48:14.654 - at it on the property that currently has the old parking garage from the city. 00:48:15.298 --> 00:48:22.678 - I know there's some reuse going on with the historic part of the hospital, but we were looking at kind 00:48:22.678 --> 00:48:29.986 - of the rest of that block, for lack of a better word. I think the Hunter School is still owned by the 00:48:29.986 --> 00:48:37.437 - school corporation, so basically from the Hunter School east to Rogers, I think is what, when we looked 00:48:37.437 --> 00:48:43.742 - at it, is what we were looking at with that corner where the historic building is being 00:48:45.442 --> 00:48:51.265 - You remember a known thing. Sorry. Do you remember if the county actually went to the RDC and asked 00:48:51.265 --> 00:48:57.497 - or my memory and I could be very wrong because this is a prior administration. But my memory was basically 00:48:57.497 --> 00:49:03.611 - that county had sort of informally approached the prior administration and was told basically absolutely 00:49:03.611 --> 00:49:09.667 - not. But I don't mean I did not attend an RDC meeting where that question was asked of them. So I don't 00:49:09.667 --> 00:49:13.278 - I don't know. I also talked to one of the current RDC members 00:49:14.210 --> 00:49:20.652 - last night after or Monday night after the meeting and he he didn't recall that either. But I but he 00:49:20.652 --> 00:49:27.095 - might be new to it right. So it might have been before his time. Right. I was before my time too but 00:49:27.095 --> 00:49:33.983 - I'm happy to take responsibility for that. Come back. And if the answer from whomever RDC or administration 00:49:33.983 --> 00:49:40.362 - is just no we just need to know it so we can move on. No judgment here at all on that. I don't know 00:49:40.362 --> 00:49:43.870 - their decisions. I will just put it out there that the 00:49:46.466 --> 00:49:52.852 - earlier today so if it's not true please don't cite me. I believe the RDC has canceled their July 6th 00:49:52.852 --> 00:49:59.677 - meeting which would be the only opportunity we would have to hear feedback from them prior to the conclusion 00:49:59.677 --> 00:50:05.938 - of this committee. So I'm neutral but I just want to put that information out there. Is it possible 00:50:05.938 --> 00:50:12.325 - that when we come back to the next meeting there could be a map that just helps explain what Hopewell 00:50:12.325 --> 00:50:15.518 - South is versus Hopewell Western. That way we just 00:50:16.098 --> 00:50:26.656 - When we address it, we're all talking about the same thing. Yes. Thank you. I'm sure that exists. Sorry, 00:50:26.656 --> 00:50:37.114 - Mr. Allen. I apologize. Thank you. You're giving him a lot of tasks, April. I know. Okay. Okay. Willing 00:50:37.114 --> 00:50:41.438 - to sell. Okay. So hope well. Unsure. Yeah. 00:50:41.762 --> 00:50:51.573 - double check, the last I understood is that the school corporation was in negotiation with a potential 00:50:51.573 --> 00:51:01.480 - purchaser, but I don't know where that would, where that's at. That's MCC. MCC owns that, or did, okay. 00:51:01.480 --> 00:51:10.910 - And next is North Park, no? North? Yeah, I mean, whether it's on the right side or not, the answer 00:51:12.130 --> 00:51:23.093 - I'm just gonna keep it on this list. South of the post office, right? South of the post office. South 00:51:23.093 --> 00:51:34.700 - Walnut Street. That's first. Pardon me? Yeah, okay, I was just trying to picture it. I think I was thinking 00:51:34.700 --> 00:51:38.462 - of a different section over there. 00:51:38.658 --> 00:51:44.956 - Okay, so the post office on South College, the one that's all fenced off, that's where we're at, so 00:51:44.956 --> 00:51:51.381 - it would be... South of the pawn shop. Yeah. Gotcha. So the question is, is the owner willing to sell 00:51:51.381 --> 00:51:57.931 - that property? Do we know that answer? You know who owns it? Is that not private property? I think it's 00:51:57.931 --> 00:52:04.419 - several owners. Yeah, it's owned in private hands for the most part, and that's, again, something that 00:52:04.419 --> 00:52:06.686 - we can put together and potentially 00:52:08.514 --> 00:52:16.578 - That's private. All right. Then are we moving on to the Tap Road, Wabahani Road, and Weimer Road? I 00:52:16.578 --> 00:52:24.884 - do not know if that one is for sale or not. The north of Tap Road? Yeah. The north of Tap Road is also 00:52:24.884 --> 00:52:33.270 - in private hands. I'm not aware of it being for sale, but we can try to get more information about that 00:52:33.270 --> 00:52:36.254 - again. OK. Our apologies. That's OK. 00:52:37.058 --> 00:52:45.671 - And Tap Road South is for sale. Or I've spoken with the owner and he's willing to work with us and he 00:52:45.671 --> 00:52:54.116 - would sell us the property. It would be available. It's available. Yes. Okay. As is Fullerton. Yes. 00:52:54.116 --> 00:53:02.644 - Oh, Fullerton. Yes. Okay. All right. Then back to Tap Road South. The 69 in West Tap Road area. Yes, 00:53:02.644 --> 00:53:06.782 - that is. Oh, yeah. He said yes. That's for sale. 00:53:07.874 --> 00:53:15.993 - He said they're willing to. Yes. They've reached out to us and have expressed a willingness to work. 00:53:15.993 --> 00:53:24.193 - All right. So then we talked about Fullerton. That was available. So I think we've done that question 00:53:24.193 --> 00:53:32.473 - all the way across if I'm recording correctly, right? Yes. All right. So now to will the property meet 00:53:32.473 --> 00:53:36.894 - constitutional care with the inserted question, right? 00:53:43.970 --> 00:53:51.677 - That's one of those questions that as we talk through the property might be able to answer better. So 00:53:51.677 --> 00:53:59.233 - fill it in as we go, is that what you're suggesting? Yeah. Okay. All right. That's one of the other 00:53:59.233 --> 00:54:06.789 - questions that get more information collected. Okay. All right. So then we go down to defensible to 00:54:06.789 --> 00:54:13.438 - court, which is the earliest groundbreaking date, right? You can answer that right now. 00:54:14.146 --> 00:54:20.227 - Anybody have any idea of any of those properties would be able to be. Ground earliest on or is there 00:54:20.227 --> 00:54:26.609 - any timeline on any of them that anyone knows about. I think the only one that I could say with certainty 00:54:26.609 --> 00:54:32.931 - is I think for the North Park we could probably break ground in a year. So just generally besides naming 00:54:32.931 --> 00:54:36.062 - specific properties and I apologize for the general 00:54:36.194 --> 00:54:42.295 - generalization but any green field development is going to be much faster obviously. So green field 00:54:42.295 --> 00:54:48.457 - development where there are no particular immediately obvious environmental obstacles is going to be 00:54:48.457 --> 00:54:54.802 - the fastest development. Anything that requires demolition or has been a historic site is going to take 00:54:54.802 --> 00:55:00.903 - just a bit of lead time and certainly much longer potentially adds up anywhere from I would say six 00:55:00.903 --> 00:55:05.662 - to twelve months to your construction time on depending on the complications. 00:55:06.274 --> 00:55:15.305 - And then do we know of properties, I guess, besides North Park that would be Greenfield? Some of the 00:55:15.305 --> 00:55:24.426 - Tap Road suggestions are Greenfield. They are not Brownfield development. Maybe the south of Tap Road 00:55:24.426 --> 00:55:33.278 - might be Brownfield. But those are the ones that come to mind. Just also as a word of information, 00:55:33.538 --> 00:55:40.684 - Anything that's going to be in downtown Bloomington is going to require significant environmental study, 00:55:40.684 --> 00:55:47.625 - just period, just from the historic uses. And it's likely that cleanup would also be required on some 00:55:47.625 --> 00:55:54.567 - of those sites. It's just a reality of developing in the downtown. So can we mark the chart somewhere 00:55:54.567 --> 00:56:01.781 - for that? The ones that are downtown? I don't know. Because I'm not sure exactly how far downtown reaches 00:56:01.781 --> 00:56:03.006 - for that purpose. 00:56:03.586 --> 00:56:09.150 - What you have on here is you have environmental considerations. And so what we'll try to do is highlight that. 00:56:09.282 --> 00:56:14.854 - Where we think and some of that would be taking some information I think is it's probably a 00:56:14.854 --> 00:56:21.333 - useful conversation as you narrow down this list and you get it down to the key properties we can probably 00:56:21.333 --> 00:56:27.632 - address that by looking at analogous neighboring properties. There are a few known features in the city 00:56:27.632 --> 00:56:33.688 - such as you know high arsenic levels is a common thing. Obviously we have we have a high background 00:56:33.688 --> 00:56:36.958 - arsenic naturally occurring arsenic levels. There is. 00:56:37.122 --> 00:56:44.845 - Shockingly number of historic gas stations that existed in downtown Bloomington that come up periodically 00:56:44.845 --> 00:56:52.204 - and then also of course Karst areas and if you you have any kind of water intrusion into the site so 00:56:52.204 --> 00:56:59.490 - So following up with this run back what she was suggesting I was wondering if we could add to under 00:56:59.490 --> 00:57:06.558 - B site profile under question to within city limits add another question say considered downtown 00:57:07.010 --> 00:57:12.931 - And then you can tell us which one of these properties would be considered in the region that you're 00:57:12.931 --> 00:57:19.321 - talking about. Sure. Yeah, we can do that. Would we do that? And I don't know what Greenfield and Brownfield 00:57:19.321 --> 00:57:25.184 - is. I could pretend, but if you could help me understand what that is. The shortest form of that is 00:57:25.184 --> 00:57:27.294 - did it have something on it before? 00:57:27.458 --> 00:57:32.902 - So if it had something on it before, it was already developed into something else, and this is reused, 00:57:32.902 --> 00:57:38.610 - that's typically brownfield development. It's already been something else, and it's changing into something 00:57:38.610 --> 00:57:43.948 - else. Greenfield typically means that it's a completely open, first-time, developable space. You can 00:57:43.948 --> 00:57:49.551 - turn some brownfield into greenfield, but typically all prior used properties are going to be brownfield. 00:57:49.551 --> 00:57:53.726 - Non-used properties, greenfield. Thank you. I appreciate that. Question? Sure. 00:57:54.050 --> 00:58:01.450 - The vast majority of the rest of these metrics will require more information. Given that it is seven, 00:58:01.450 --> 00:58:08.777 - I would suggest that we adjourn shortly and give our legal teams the adequate time to review for the 00:58:08.777 --> 00:58:16.176 - rest of the information. I just don't know that it's going to be an efficient use of our time to stop 00:58:16.176 --> 00:58:23.358 - this group. We need more information. Well, let's hear from legal. What does legal say about this? 00:58:24.066 --> 00:58:30.232 - Council Zulek recommended here. That's generally what I would also recommend. And I apologize that we're 00:58:30.232 --> 00:58:36.221 - putting you in this position. We appreciate your patience with us. We're trying to do this as quickly 00:58:36.221 --> 00:58:42.681 - as we can. But I think that information will be helpful just to make this a much more productive conversation 00:58:42.681 --> 00:58:48.670 - to have those basic facts for these properties. So is there anything breezing through the rest of the 00:58:48.670 --> 00:58:54.014 - questions? Do we have anything that we might be able to do yet? Does anybody see anything? 00:58:54.306 --> 00:59:06.736 - additional legal input. And how you look at the list, you see it the same way? Okay. All right. So that 00:59:06.736 --> 00:59:18.926 - brings us to the adjournment, I guess, right? Is there anything else from any of the committee or our 00:59:18.926 --> 00:59:20.958 - table over here? 00:59:21.314 --> 00:59:27.641 - legal and other experts that would like to weigh in before we adjourn for this evening. I would just 00:59:27.641 --> 00:59:33.905 - say I appreciate Commissioner Madeira wanting to know where the information is coming from. I don't 00:59:33.905 --> 00:59:40.170 - want to make this chart like full of footnotes or links or something that is not user friendly, but 00:59:40.170 --> 00:59:46.622 - I'm hoping, you know, when you guys are putting information on the chart that if possible, if we could 00:59:46.622 --> 00:59:51.070 - mark who added it or where the information came from, you know, that's 00:59:52.514 --> 00:59:58.976 - be adding a lot, but at least to know if city legalists who put this in or county legalists who put 00:59:58.976 --> 01:00:05.567 - this in or something. That way we can kind of go back to the source if we have questions about, or if 01:00:05.567 --> 01:00:12.416 - anyone has questions about where this information came from. Possible? I don't know. Anything's possible. 01:00:12.416 --> 01:00:15.518 - Okay. If you would be willing just to give us a 01:00:15.842 --> 01:00:21.124 - If we could confer with that before your next meeting and kind of try to figure out, because it might 01:00:21.124 --> 01:00:26.510 - make sense just to be able to, if we have source documents, we can just link them. So it's not a matter 01:00:26.510 --> 01:00:31.740 - of who's entering it, but they have access to it. But we can certainly try to work that out. So make 01:00:31.740 --> 01:00:36.918 - it readable and usable still. Links would be great. That would be awesome. Can I out in your emails 01:00:36.918 --> 01:00:42.718 - for something from me? I'm going to do my best to identify the history of Hopewell in relationship to the jail. 01:00:42.818 --> 01:00:49.871 - So a lot of it will probably be just chit chat. What you learn, yes. I will do my best to get us all 01:00:49.871 --> 01:00:56.993 - the information we can get. Thanks. Chair, final to that. So I think I would like to. I'm sorry, yes. 01:00:56.993 --> 01:01:04.256 - Oh, I was just piggybacking off the comment by Ms. Rembeck. The stuff that we've already been presented 01:01:04.256 --> 01:01:10.750 - today and that we've previously presented, if we could also include copies of that or links. 01:01:11.394 --> 01:01:17.333 - Mr. Cockrell was kind enough to give us this Menorah County Sheriff's Office and Jail and Justice Center. 01:01:17.333 --> 01:01:23.216 - Like in Venice? Well, for the subcommittee, we have our own website. Oh, on the website. I was wondering 01:01:23.216 --> 01:01:29.042 - if you could include a link or a copy just so the public can follow along as well. As I receive things, 01:01:29.042 --> 01:01:34.645 - I've been putting it on the website. Thank you. Yes, I will put a copy of what Mr. Cockrell gave us 01:01:34.645 --> 01:01:36.382 - tonight. Thank you. Thank you. 01:01:38.946 --> 01:01:45.804 - And then Miss April, if you're updating the matrix information, then when you forward that to me, I 01:01:45.804 --> 01:01:52.663 - will update that onto the website as well. I believe Attorney Allen agreed to update the metrics. I 01:01:52.663 --> 01:01:59.727 - think maybe we're not correct. I wanted to check. So you guys are going to handle updating the matrix, 01:01:59.727 --> 01:02:07.065 - sorry, both legal departments, so that we're not violating the open door by trying to do it all ourselves? 01:02:07.065 --> 01:02:08.574 - Correct. OK. Correct. 01:02:09.122 --> 01:02:14.843 - Turner King has already been making some of the updates for the suggested add additions for the additional 01:02:14.843 --> 01:02:20.349 - properties, you know, we'll add those as well so that everything's on one site. Although understanding 01:02:20.349 --> 01:02:25.803 - that non-city properties will go on a cover sheet that lists all the properties, so we'll try to also 01:02:25.803 --> 01:02:31.310 - develop the cover sheet. And then can we have, at some point, a link to, like, is it similar to, like, 01:02:31.310 --> 01:02:36.656 - a read-only situation, what you were thinking, where we can look at it, like, live? Yeah, so... You 01:02:36.656 --> 01:02:38.046 - mentioned that for the... 01:02:38.786 --> 01:02:44.039 - For the public comment, do you mean as you score it through the matrix, like as it gets filled in? We'll 01:02:44.039 --> 01:02:49.042 - just fill an entire matrix kind of as it's updated. Yeah, so it'll be available. It should come out 01:02:49.042 --> 01:02:54.095 - through the packet, and it'll be published again online so that it will be available to you all. And 01:02:54.095 --> 01:02:59.449 - it should get emailed out as part of the agenda. Awesome. Thank you. I will make no changes to any matrix. 01:02:59.449 --> 01:03:04.702 - You're not waiting on anything from me. We'll just come back to you. When they're doing the first thing. 01:03:06.978 --> 01:03:16.097 - Are we all on the same page here? I'm sorry about all this. A quick timeline, I know. You're in trouble. 01:03:16.097 --> 01:03:24.955 - Did you have something to add, anyone there? We're going to have to work out logistics because I'm on 01:03:24.955 --> 01:03:34.508 - vacation starting 4 o'clock tomorrow. Always taking off time starting next week. So we were just sympathizing 01:03:34.508 --> 01:03:35.550 - with Larry. 01:03:36.610 --> 01:03:44.433 - They're very concerned that I'll be the only one here for you. So we'll fill in what we can. We understand 01:03:44.433 --> 01:03:51.963 - it may not be completely done in a week. All right. Thank you. Meeting meetings. I think I'd just like 01:03:51.963 --> 01:03:59.346 - to summarize when the remaining meetings are. Yes July 6th at 6 p.m. Monday. We're going to continue 01:03:59.346 --> 01:04:03.806 - these site evaluations with an updated metric sheet and then 01:04:04.386 --> 01:04:13.130 - We've agreed to do an executive session to look at properties at 5 15 on Thursday. Regular meeting at 01:04:13.130 --> 01:04:21.788 - six on Thursday and then on the ninth we're going to have a meeting at seven. I'm sorry it's also on 01:04:21.788 --> 01:04:30.703 - the same day. Thank you. That willing the public meeting will be on this at seven on the ninth and then 01:04:30.703 --> 01:04:34.046 - Thursday and then on the 13th we will. 01:04:34.402 --> 01:04:42.175 - have another meeting Monday, and then make a recommendation. The meeting at 6 p.m. on Thursday will 01:04:42.175 --> 01:04:50.181 - also be public. It just will not be open to public comment. And at 7 p.m. that is the time that public 01:04:50.181 --> 01:04:57.954 - comment will start. That's right. For the Thursday meeting. That's right. Is it noon? That's right. 01:04:57.954 --> 01:05:04.094 - Yes. That's right. Yes. Thank you for that reminder. Thank you. Anything else? 01:05:04.642 --> 01:05:11.810 - We're going to call it adjourned. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here and thank you for everything 01:05:11.810 --> 01:05:13.374 - that we've done so far.