WEBVTT 00:00:01.122 --> 00:00:12.640 - All right, so we're gonna go ahead and start this work session and I apologize to everybody who's watching 00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:23.081 - on Teams because it's gonna be very hard to follow what we're doing here audio-wise, video-wise, 00:00:23.081 --> 00:00:30.078 - et cetera. And I just have a couple things to talk through here. 00:00:32.258 --> 00:00:40.113 - Again, and just to restate that we do fervently believe that people are safer and healthier when they 00:00:40.113 --> 00:00:48.507 - live indoors, especially during winter months. We've continued to work with Health Net, City of Bloomington, 00:00:48.507 --> 00:00:56.516 - local not-for-profits to identify reasonable accommodations for folks who are currently at the Thompson 00:00:56.516 --> 00:01:01.214 - property. People are trespassing. People don't have adequate 00:01:02.434 --> 00:01:10.637 - Sanitation and it's terrible. There are no sanitary facilities present. The sheriff has indicated he 00:01:10.637 --> 00:01:18.759 - will not remove people from the Thompson property at this juncture. So this whole thing's postponed 00:01:18.759 --> 00:01:26.962 - indefinitely, but our hands are tied and we wanna move on to the next step. We wanna figure out what 00:01:26.962 --> 00:01:31.998 - can we do better? And it's not providing, we aren't providing 00:01:32.162 --> 00:01:42.017 - camping facilities based on our health code. We are outside the city of Bloomington, that is the city 00:01:42.017 --> 00:01:52.258 - of Bloomington property. We're outside their zoning laws. So to focus on that side of it isn't incredibly 00:01:52.258 --> 00:02:01.630 - helpful because that's not a solution. Thompson's not a solution for anybody. It's a short term. 00:02:01.730 --> 00:02:09.479 - It's what it is now. We understand it. We get it. And people wanna stay there. We hope for the best. 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:17.305 - We really do hope for the best, but we fear the worst. And we don't want anybody to lose their lives, 00:02:17.305 --> 00:02:24.977 - to be harmed because they're out in the cold in this environment. It's gonna be terrible. And we do 00:02:24.977 --> 00:02:31.038 - have, there are warming shelters open this weekend, just to remind the public. 00:02:31.714 --> 00:02:39.404 - And they are available on our website, but it's essentially libraries and fire departments across the 00:02:39.404 --> 00:02:47.244 - county and across the city. So we encourage folks to help those who need it to get to a warming shelter 00:02:47.244 --> 00:02:54.330 - this weekend, especially because it's going to be zero at night. It's terrible, terrible. And 00:02:54.330 --> 00:03:00.286 - it's frightening. So we wanted to give you, you know, it's hard for us because 00:03:01.762 --> 00:03:11.282 - We wanted to, so we know nothing's happening next week. But when we set this meeting, we didn't know 00:03:11.282 --> 00:03:20.897 - that. And so from our side of it, please, if you give me a moment, from our side of it, what we tried 00:03:20.897 --> 00:03:31.454 - to do was set up a meeting as quickly as we could before the 15th. And we all have various meeting commitments. 00:03:31.746 --> 00:03:40.475 - and we couldn't all be there. The only time we could all be there was last night. And then, but we couldn't, 00:03:40.475 --> 00:03:48.564 - we didn't list a place, therefore it was against open door law for the meeting. We still are holding 00:03:48.564 --> 00:03:57.213 - our office hours. You'll see those and anybody's free to join those. We have heard a lot of things ascribed 00:03:57.213 --> 00:03:58.654 - to us in terms of 00:03:59.170 --> 00:04:09.809 - statements or actions that are not accurate. And it doesn't help. It doesn't help anybody to do that. 00:04:09.809 --> 00:04:21.282 - We want to give you this time and we can either rehash and talk about Thompson eviction that's not happening. 00:04:21.282 --> 00:04:28.062 - Or we can talk about what are we going to do to fix this, right? 00:04:28.386 --> 00:04:36.855 - Leave it up to you all and whatever you'd like to do. We are going to, I think we do have a signing 00:04:36.855 --> 00:04:45.578 - sheet somewhere, so we get folks to write their names. That would be great for the record. If you can, 00:04:45.578 --> 00:04:52.862 - that would be great. If you choose not to, that's on you, that's fine. But so really, 00:04:53.314 --> 00:05:01.215 - What you want to spend your time doing now is really up to you. And we're here and we're listening. 00:05:01.215 --> 00:05:09.352 - And we can't do right for doing wrong. Well, you move the conversation. Well, we had to. And right now 00:05:09.352 --> 00:05:17.490 - is the only time we could do it before next week. That doesn't mean future meetings can't be at night. 00:05:17.490 --> 00:05:21.598 - So this isn't the end. This is the step one. Right? 00:05:21.826 --> 00:05:32.006 - What would you all like to do? We're satisfied with the outcome of this conversation, hearing that our 00:05:32.006 --> 00:05:42.582 - eviction has been caused indefinitely here by the council and that the sheriff has no intention to enforce 00:05:42.582 --> 00:05:51.774 - it ever. We are happy to walk away from the table and leave you guys alone. What next? What? 00:05:52.162 --> 00:05:59.864 - What is it that impeded? I get that. That's why I'm saying, what next? What else can we do? After the 00:05:59.864 --> 00:06:07.867 - last 10 days, I would like you to not do anything. Could I posit a guarantee? We're already understanding 00:06:07.867 --> 00:06:15.418 - that the eviction is indefinitely held off. What's the harm in writing? We guarantee we won't evict 00:06:15.418 --> 00:06:19.646 - till April. Just that we have public record in writing, 00:06:20.098 --> 00:06:27.390 - You know, we can say you did a great thing, and you saved people, and it's great for you. Cheers all 00:06:27.390 --> 00:06:34.971 - around. And it also puts us at ease. Because right now, it's just saying, well, the sheriff wanted that, 00:06:34.971 --> 00:06:41.758 - so we can't not say that we won't. I think I don't know if Mr. Farrell can help us here. But. 00:06:41.954 --> 00:06:47.008 - Yeah, I think it'd be a different Jeff Cockroach counties here. I think that would be a very difficult 00:06:47.008 --> 00:06:51.816 - statement for the commissioners to make for for a variety of reasons. I think the biggest one is, 00:06:51.816 --> 00:06:56.869 - you know, we're not in compliance with the land use for the property. So, you know, if they said we're 00:06:56.869 --> 00:07:02.119 - not going to do anything till April 1st, but something else came around and the city says you're violating 00:07:02.119 --> 00:07:07.369 - our zoning, that's outside their control. I think the other thing the other thing that I would be resident 00:07:07.369 --> 00:07:08.350 - about is, you know, 00:07:08.674 --> 00:07:15.662 - From what you guys have described, right now it's fairly stable. What happens if it becomes unstable, 00:07:15.662 --> 00:07:22.582 - right? Which could happen. I think committing to, hey, we're going to not do anything no matter what 00:07:22.582 --> 00:07:29.433 - until a certain date kind of ties their hands if it does become unstable and something does need to 00:07:29.433 --> 00:07:34.846 - happen, right? I mean, those would be the concerns that I would voice to them. 00:07:40.706 --> 00:07:49.047 - I think signing that would be the easiest thing to do. But I don't think it would be honest to do that, 00:07:49.047 --> 00:07:57.469 - given what Mr. Cockrell's outlined. And we want, we're honest and we're transparent about this. We don't 00:07:57.469 --> 00:08:05.569 - have plans. And it may, it could be May, it could be March. It depends on what happens. And we can't 00:08:05.569 --> 00:08:10.622 - control that. There are so many things outside of our control. 00:08:12.738 --> 00:08:20.901 - That's the issue. And I appreciate the desire to have a date. We're not in a position to put a date 00:08:20.901 --> 00:08:29.227 - on it for either pro or con because it may go beyond or it may be shorter, right? It depends on those 00:08:29.227 --> 00:08:37.635 - events outside of our control. One, you do control it to an extent because y'all did issue an eviction 00:08:37.635 --> 00:08:42.206 - notice. And so you can take a part in putting that off. 00:08:42.370 --> 00:08:47.761 - until April, and if the city decides to try to carry this out, then I guess they'll have to deal with 00:08:47.761 --> 00:08:53.046 - us next. But why don't you just do your part in putting it out? Two, you mentioned one of the camps 00:08:53.046 --> 00:08:58.331 - would come unstable. From what I've seen in the years I've been organizing with the unhoused camps, 00:08:58.331 --> 00:09:03.827 - the one thing that I've seen make camps unstable is cops coming in and harassing people, and especially 00:09:03.827 --> 00:09:09.218 - evictions. I haven't seen anything else make a camp unstable. So you're saying one of the camps would 00:09:09.218 --> 00:09:11.966 - come unstable. You're manufacturing that situation. 00:09:12.258 --> 00:09:18.282 - Once again, I just want to reiterate what Ashley was saying. The best thing you can do is nothing. You 00:09:18.282 --> 00:09:24.307 - don't need to carry out this eviction. You don't even need to be posting this. You can just put it off 00:09:24.307 --> 00:09:30.155 - on your end. If the city wants to carry this out, then they're going to have to deal with this too. 00:09:30.155 --> 00:09:36.238 - But why are you dragging your feet? Yes, thank you. Sorry. I'd also be very happy to mention the reason 00:09:36.238 --> 00:09:41.502 - you signed this eviction notice, as you stated before multiple times, is for trespassing. 00:09:41.730 --> 00:09:47.877 - And it's not really a situation that can become more or less unstable because they're not going to be 00:09:47.877 --> 00:09:53.903 - doing any more or less trespassing. Right now, you've made a very clear reason behind the eviction. 00:09:53.903 --> 00:10:00.111 - You have faced opposition from the city council, from the sheriff, from the entire city of Bloomington 00:10:00.111 --> 00:10:06.378 - around that eviction and around its motivations. And you have made an indefinite notice. I would prefer 00:10:06.378 --> 00:10:08.126 - that we have a known notice. 00:10:08.866 --> 00:10:15.984 - because this is about an unchanging action. I don't think there's any clear control within the confines 00:10:15.984 --> 00:10:23.033 - of the motivation behind this eviction notice that you've signed. And so on the topic of transparency, 00:10:23.033 --> 00:10:30.083 - I think it would be good to have a transparent date so that we know if you do have plans, if you think 00:10:30.083 --> 00:10:37.406 - this eviction truly is necessary, that you have a date that you are aiming for, that you are reaching for. 00:10:37.794 --> 00:10:44.497 - What I've heard so far, and maybe there are more of these, but what I've heard is three things that 00:10:44.497 --> 00:10:51.468 - we've described as the problems of this. One is they're trespassing. Sure, that's true. I mean, I think 00:10:51.468 --> 00:10:58.238 - that's a made-up thing. It's a made-up law. It's not really a crime except if somebody wrote it down 00:10:58.238 --> 00:11:04.606 - in a book. And the fact is anybody here that's not Native American is trespassing. We all are. 00:11:05.378 --> 00:11:11.816 - And nobody needs to evict all of us just because of that. So trespassing is a made-up thing. We can 00:11:11.816 --> 00:11:18.448 - all agree it's whatever it is. Okay, the second thing I heard of is we don't have sanitary facilities. 00:11:18.448 --> 00:11:25.273 - It's not a sufficient living space out there. And that's fair. I would like everybody to have the privacy 00:11:25.273 --> 00:11:31.518 - of a bathroom and running water and whatever they need to actually live in a sanitary condition. 00:11:32.610 --> 00:11:38.814 - That's fixable, too. It's certainly at least as fixable as deciding that we don't want to evict them. 00:11:38.814 --> 00:11:45.139 - That's a fixable issue. And if there's going to be a statement that says we're going to set a date that 00:11:45.139 --> 00:11:51.342 - no matter what, we're not going to evict anybody before April 1st, given these conditions. One of our 00:11:51.342 --> 00:11:57.667 - conditions is we have to put bathrooms and running water out there. We can do that. Surely, we can come 00:11:57.667 --> 00:12:00.830 - up with a number for how much that's going to cost. 00:12:01.218 --> 00:12:07.344 - and compare that cost to how much it takes for people with guns to go out there and harass them. The 00:12:07.344 --> 00:12:13.350 - third thing I think of that I've heard from Mr. Cockrell is that it may become unstable, which is, 00:12:13.350 --> 00:12:19.658 - you know, with all due respect, that's one of the more big things I've ever heard in my life. Unstable, 00:12:19.658 --> 00:12:25.845 - is it unstable? Okay, yeah, sure. We can put that in our statement too. The statement is, we're going 00:12:25.845 --> 00:12:30.334 - to evict no earlier than April 1st, assuming we have sanitary conditions, 00:12:30.754 --> 00:12:36.210 - Assuming that it doesn't become unstable, come up with a real definition. Your attorney or attorney 00:12:36.210 --> 00:12:41.830 - can come up with an actual thing that means something. And based on whatever that definition is, we're 00:12:41.830 --> 00:12:47.341 - going to say, assuming that things don't become unstable, which means nobody with guns has to go out 00:12:47.341 --> 00:12:52.798 - there and harass people, which I think we can agree is the primary reason it would become unstable. 00:12:52.798 --> 00:12:58.472 - And assuming that these things are handled by the county and the city, if we need to get them involved, 00:12:58.472 --> 00:13:00.382 - assuming those things are handled, 00:13:00.834 --> 00:13:07.201 - We don't need to even call into question whether they're trespassing. We just say, we're not gonna do 00:13:07.201 --> 00:13:13.631 - anything. And instead of spending money on having people go out there and cause problems, we can spend 00:13:13.631 --> 00:13:19.873 - money, we can find money somewhere in our budget to give them bathrooms and to give them water. And 00:13:19.873 --> 00:13:26.177 - based on those things, based on the fact that we are upholding our own responsibilities, we won't do 00:13:26.177 --> 00:13:30.110 - anything to them until at least April 1st. Or if we wanna say, 00:13:30.850 --> 00:13:38.184 - until May 1st, or if we want to say until April 2027, I'd be okay with that, but I decide what that 00:13:38.184 --> 00:13:44.932 - date is. And then we just put some conditions in there. Assuming that we uphold our side of 00:13:44.932 --> 00:13:49.406 - this responsibility, we're not gonna do anything until then. 00:13:58.946 --> 00:14:05.342 - some kind of emergent situation that might change your ability to have a guarantee that we definitely 00:14:05.342 --> 00:14:11.738 - won't do this. I understand what's being said there. Something could come up. So a guarantee would be 00:14:11.738 --> 00:14:18.072 - inappropriate because that means something coming from people in this building. However, if you were 00:14:18.072 --> 00:14:24.343 - able to put in writing that you have no plans to do this, and as long as nothing changes, you don't 00:14:24.343 --> 00:14:25.534 - intend to do this, 00:14:25.922 --> 00:14:33.079 - I think that could still hold a lot of weight for the people who are depending on your word and have 00:14:33.079 --> 00:14:37.118 - hesitations about trusting that. Do you see what I mean? 00:15:19.938 --> 00:15:24.601 - issue that you're very concerned with. As for trash, I would like to also, along with quarter parties, 00:15:24.601 --> 00:15:29.490 - that would be fantastic, but a rolling dumpster out there, the community already self-polices, it organizes 00:15:29.490 --> 00:15:34.153 - trash cleanups, we have nowhere to put it. We're not gonna legal dump, because we don't commit crimes. 00:15:34.153 --> 00:15:38.771 - We bag it up, and then animals run through it, and so we don't know where to put it, but if you would 00:15:38.771 --> 00:15:43.434 - provide municipal services, and we'll write up the cost for that for X amount of months, you just have 00:15:43.434 --> 00:15:48.414 - a rolling dumpster, we'll clean it for you. A lot of these issues, like the community's already dealing with, 00:15:48.610 --> 00:15:58.372 - We just need the resources to make it happen for you. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think I don't want 00:15:58.372 --> 00:16:08.133 - to see any of this get breezed over. I just wanted to say you're saying that when there's a commitment 00:16:08.133 --> 00:16:18.558 - from the sheriff's department that there's that the evictions are not going to happen. This is city property. 00:16:19.298 --> 00:16:25.895 - So the part, so the Thompson area is, I thought you said that it was city. It's inside city limits. 00:16:25.895 --> 00:16:32.624 - Okay, so who's going to commit, commit that BPD isn't going to go in with guns? That would have to be 00:16:32.624 --> 00:16:39.352 - BPD. And so who do we reach out to? I would talk to BPD and the mayor's office. You know, our sheriff 00:16:39.352 --> 00:16:46.015 - is elected, but the chief of police is appointed, right? So that's three you have to work through is 00:16:46.015 --> 00:16:48.126 - the mayor and the city council. 00:16:49.250 --> 00:16:55.705 - Are you aware of if there are any plans? Are there any backdoor discussions with the county, I mean 00:16:55.705 --> 00:17:02.224 - with the city? Is there even any written eviction notice for the 15th that has been delivered out to 00:17:02.224 --> 00:17:09.001 - people at the camp? Well, that was delayed because folks were helping. And again, we want to thank those 00:17:09.001 --> 00:17:15.972 - folks who were helping get people into warmer places. And that's going to be so important for this weekend, 00:17:15.972 --> 00:17:19.070 - even before the 15th. But that's at this point. 00:17:19.842 --> 00:17:30.399 - You know, it is not, we're telling you it's not no longer in force. So if there's a decision for reasons 00:17:30.399 --> 00:17:40.654 - that have already been outlined to clear the space, and that could be April 1st, it could be May 1st, 00:17:40.654 --> 00:17:48.094 - it could be whenever, right? Because of an issue or an incident. We will, 00:17:48.482 --> 00:17:59.734 - issue a new notice with plenty of opportunity for folks who are staying there to get moved. Now, the 00:17:59.734 --> 00:18:11.433 - other thing I'm going to add, because we have a lot of things going on all at one time, as you may know, 00:18:11.433 --> 00:18:16.446 - we have been trying to secure a location and 00:18:17.026 --> 00:18:25.753 - the funding to develop our justice complex, which would replace the justice building on Seventh and 00:18:25.753 --> 00:18:35.091 - College. And we had a property identified. The county council said no. And we've had the Thompson property 00:18:35.091 --> 00:18:42.334 - for years. I don't know when we got it, but it's been years. It was 2001, I think. 00:18:42.754 --> 00:18:49.253 - 2001 I believe. Yeah it's been a long time since we've owned that property. So I know we had talked 00:18:49.253 --> 00:18:55.751 - initially as a board and with our council colleagues in the county about trying to create some sort 00:18:55.751 --> 00:19:02.445 - of affordable housing and doing all these things and then it was oh this may be a site for the Justice 00:19:02.445 --> 00:19:08.944 - Center. So we actually had the space investigated for that purpose. It would cost so much money and 00:19:08.944 --> 00:19:11.998 - take so much time to prepare that property and 00:19:12.418 --> 00:19:19.803 - that we moved on and identified the North Park site. Now, at that meeting of the county council when 00:19:19.803 --> 00:19:27.262 - they said no to the North Park site, we actually had on that agenda the sale of the Thompson property 00:19:27.262 --> 00:19:34.647 - because we didn't see any need to hold onto it, right? Because if we're not gonna use it for what we 00:19:34.647 --> 00:19:42.398 - thought we were gonna use it for back in 2001, why are we holding onto it? We could use the money to help 00:19:42.914 --> 00:19:49.903 - fund the justice center project elsewhere. But we pulled that agenda item because we don't know what 00:19:49.903 --> 00:19:56.823 - the council wants to do. But at some point, that property may go up for sale. When that goes up for 00:19:56.823 --> 00:20:03.882 - sale, it is out of our hands. The council has to approve the sale. That is what they said on Tuesday. 00:20:03.882 --> 00:20:10.940 - That's correct. Yes, that's right. I think it's in your hands then. The council seems so far from the 00:20:10.940 --> 00:20:12.670 - letter they sent to you. 00:20:13.026 --> 00:20:20.541 - quite uninterested in this eviction and thus in the sale of this property. It's not a matter of, there 00:20:20.541 --> 00:20:27.837 - are two separate things that are coming together. The sale of the property is because we don't have 00:20:27.837 --> 00:20:35.426 - a purpose for it and we will need the money to build, to put toward the building of the justice center. 00:20:35.426 --> 00:20:42.430 - And that happens to overlap with the fact that right now there are people staying there, right? 00:20:42.882 --> 00:20:50.086 - So that is something else that's going to potentially come up, right? But everyone will know. Everyone 00:20:50.086 --> 00:20:57.081 - will know if it happens. Everyone will be aware. It will be on both a council agenda. It will be on 00:20:57.081 --> 00:21:04.075 - a commissioner's agenda. It's not gonna be done secretly. It will all have to happen at a number of 00:21:04.075 --> 00:21:08.062 - public meetings. But the sale would be your choice, yes. 00:21:09.346 --> 00:21:15.937 - The sale is a choice would be county government, it would be council and commissioners would both have 00:21:15.937 --> 00:21:22.400 - to decide to do it. So you are responsible for approving? We're one party of two that has to approve 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:28.927 - it. You could veto it. And they could choose to not approve it. So it seems like it's still very much 00:21:28.927 --> 00:21:35.774 - is in your hands if it is wanting to be put up for sale because you can say no, you can veto the movement. 00:21:36.962 --> 00:21:42.514 - And while, yes, the city council can say yes, although they seem to have been against the situation 00:21:42.514 --> 00:21:48.121 - as well. It's not up to the city council, it's the county council. My apologies. That's okay. I just 00:21:48.121 --> 00:21:53.840 - want to make sure we're all clear. No, no, I appreciate that. I appreciate that. So even if the county 00:21:53.840 --> 00:21:59.503 - council approves this, you can say no and still maintain this encampment. It's still, so it is within 00:21:59.503 --> 00:22:05.221 - your power, even if the county government wants to sell this land. We are breaking our own health code 00:22:05.221 --> 00:22:06.942 - in terms of having a campsite. 00:22:07.554 --> 00:22:17.998 - and we are not following city zoning. And so I can't control what the city is going to do about that 00:22:17.998 --> 00:22:28.649 - part of it either. So I hear you. I know people are, and it's been postponed indefinitely. We can take 00:22:28.649 --> 00:22:37.438 - under advisement what you're asking for, but that's not something that I don't think 00:22:38.306 --> 00:22:45.268 - any of the three of us are willing to do a writing right now, but I'm certain that we will talk about 00:22:45.268 --> 00:22:52.298 - it and make a decision together about what we are willing to commit to writing. And that's all I could 00:22:52.298 --> 00:22:59.533 - offer. Yes, and so Gabriel had asked me to speak to what I saw in the camps, and I didn't see everything, 00:22:59.533 --> 00:23:00.830 - but what I saw was 00:23:01.090 --> 00:23:07.578 - And I interacted with a number of presidents, including Ash. Thank you very much for your generosity 00:23:07.578 --> 00:23:14.067 - in speaking to me and showing me and opening your day to Councilor Henry. Yes, I'm sorry. I'll go on 00:23:14.067 --> 00:23:20.619 - to the councilor, Hayden Jordan-Madera, speaking about going to the campus and what she said. So TSE, 00:23:20.619 --> 00:23:25.694 - can you mute people until we can call on them? We will call on folks on Teams. 00:23:28.514 --> 00:23:34.908 - What I saw was a lot of people who were trying to do the best that they could with very little. 00:23:34.908 --> 00:23:41.701 - And so that's, I think, what everybody was spaced out. There were a lot of people who were not there, 00:23:41.701 --> 00:23:48.428 - who come back intermittently. There were some small piles of trash. There were tents that were, some 00:23:48.428 --> 00:23:55.355 - of which were insulated, some of which were not. I think we saw one cap the entire time. We were there, 00:23:55.355 --> 00:23:57.886 - which was about two and a half hours. 00:23:58.210 --> 00:24:04.729 - It was revelatory. So again, I thank you for making that experience possible. When we talk about the 00:24:04.729 --> 00:24:11.184 - types of events that would prompt us to clean out the camp, what I really think of is what happened 00:24:11.184 --> 00:24:17.833 - in January of 2024. And when Mayor Kerry Thompson just got elected, we had, I believe, two murders and 00:24:17.833 --> 00:24:24.804 - homeless camps, and those were not caused by people with guns. That was caused by someone who unfortunately 00:24:24.804 --> 00:24:27.838 - had a mental illness who, and we have horrible 00:24:27.938 --> 00:24:35.366 - horrible systems for managing mental illness. And the solution that she saw was to clean out the camp 00:24:35.366 --> 00:24:43.013 - because that happened. Because it's impossible to handle that any other way other than sending in people 00:24:43.013 --> 00:24:50.368 - with guns. And that makes the entire situation unstable. And so we don't anticipate that happens. We 00:24:50.368 --> 00:24:55.102 - hope that that will not happen because one of the things that we 00:24:55.234 --> 00:25:00.985 - learned last weekend was that if someone who is unstable comes into the camp, there are a system of 00:25:00.985 --> 00:25:06.737 - rules. And people work together to sort of get each other help. And they work together to provide a 00:25:06.737 --> 00:25:12.948 - safety net in the encampment for people who are part of that community. And so my guess is that if somebody 00:25:12.948 --> 00:25:18.699 - came in with that profound mental illness, hopefully someone would see that and report that. And so 00:25:18.699 --> 00:25:23.358 - there's a system of trust that exists in that camp, just as there is in society. 00:25:23.586 --> 00:25:30.357 - And so, but it's that type of event. It's not sending in people with firearms who are part of law enforcement 00:25:30.357 --> 00:25:36.881 - because again, that's not going to happen here on the county side. And so that's what's been represented. 00:25:36.881 --> 00:25:43.159 - That's what's going to happen. But when we say that this is not going to happen, indefinitely we mean 00:25:43.159 --> 00:25:49.315 - until certainly the weather is warmer. And I think also part of the conversation that needs to take 00:25:49.315 --> 00:25:51.038 - place is getting a protocol 00:25:51.138 --> 00:25:57.284 - in place, getting a series of discussions in place, talking with not only those of you who are present 00:25:57.284 --> 00:26:03.371 - today, but with frontline workers who are there in the community as well. And so obviously that's not 00:26:03.371 --> 00:26:09.696 - going to be part of today's conversation, but that's something else that we very much need to work toward 00:26:09.696 --> 00:26:16.081 - as well. I know that you can't give us the date because it's a moving target. However, part of the biggest 00:26:16.081 --> 00:26:20.318 - reason that resources were scrambled so quickly and part of the reason 00:26:20.642 --> 00:26:25.724 - This has gone so poorly for you that you gave seven days notice. I know the county only has to give 00:26:25.724 --> 00:26:30.857 - 48 hours notice, I believe. Can we ask a guarantee that you give us a 30 day notice? Allow us to get 00:26:30.857 --> 00:26:36.041 - our resources out. Like I said, we don't support eviction ever at all. At the very least, you have to 00:26:36.041 --> 00:26:41.530 - give people time. Seven days is completely inadequate. I think if you are actually going through a process, 00:26:41.530 --> 00:26:46.206 - a 30 day notice should be a very easy ask. And I think that will make, that'll build trust. 00:26:46.466 --> 00:26:51.469 - And I think that's important. So I think that's something that I would really like to see codified. 00:26:51.469 --> 00:26:56.522 - I think it's super easy. I also wanted to hark on, because you brought this up immediately, I agree. 00:26:56.522 --> 00:27:01.524 - People are safer indoors than they are outdoors. However, there aren't enough indoors. I'm not sure 00:27:01.524 --> 00:27:06.677 - if you heard me or other people in our speech. According to all of the data we have in town, there are 00:27:06.677 --> 00:27:12.030 - 259 fixed beds. And that includes B-Source. That is 45 beds short of the January census of homeless folks. 00:27:12.770 --> 00:27:19.317 - So like, while I appreciate the sentiment people are safer inside, there isn't enough inside. Once you 00:27:19.317 --> 00:27:25.800 - understand there isn't enough inside, you understand that evicting is pushing people not indoors, but 00:27:25.800 --> 00:27:32.410 - further outdoors with less items. So like, I wanted that to be incredibly explicit that no action taken 00:27:32.410 --> 00:27:38.893 - during the winter is helpful. No action bring people inside. Can you tell me then, and it's certainly 00:27:38.893 --> 00:27:40.990 - not what we've heard Angie from, 00:27:41.250 --> 00:27:53.855 - from the health net in terms of beds. And it is always a moving number of how many spaces are available, 00:27:53.855 --> 00:28:05.860 - et cetera. So we need to figure out how to find out how to create more short-term emergency shelter 00:28:05.860 --> 00:28:10.782 - spaces. Yes, I'm hearing that. No, okay. 00:28:14.178 --> 00:28:42.302 - Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. 00:28:42.882 --> 00:28:52.023 - We keep talking about sanitation issues. We keep talking about shelter beds. We keep talking about people 00:28:52.023 --> 00:29:00.905 - being safer inside. There's never been any argument about people being safer inside. And it is not the 00:29:00.905 --> 00:29:09.529 - case that we are advocating for people to stay outside forever and ever. That's not what anybody is 00:29:09.529 --> 00:29:12.030 - necessarily asking for here. 00:29:12.802 --> 00:29:20.331 - We understand we're not activists for living on the fringes of society. We are trying to protect people 00:29:20.331 --> 00:29:27.716 - because they don't have any other options right now. I'd like to return to the point about asking for 00:29:27.716 --> 00:29:35.318 - in writing agreement that 30 days is going to be the new heads up time. Just recently, I've been helping 00:29:35.318 --> 00:29:41.182 - some of the folks in the camps move out of Browns Woods, which is, I understand, 00:29:41.826 --> 00:29:48.206 - that was not you guys, but the very first time I ever have seen a needle in these camps was in a trash 00:29:48.206 --> 00:29:54.525 - pile, right? In a dedicated trash zone. The very first time I encountered human feces was because the 00:29:54.525 --> 00:30:00.967 - camp was being torn apart, right? So like all of these other issues, this is irrelevant. We really need 00:30:00.967 --> 00:30:07.223 - to quit talking about this. None of this matters. The sanitation part of it. People do what they can 00:30:07.223 --> 00:30:10.878 - with what they have, because again, they're people, right? 00:30:11.074 --> 00:30:18.786 - be clean and healthy to the best of their ability. But again, seven days is not nearly enough. I had 00:30:18.786 --> 00:30:26.650 - to bust my ass. I'm so exhausted. And we couldn't take everything that people needed. They didn't have 00:30:26.650 --> 00:30:34.820 - bedding for the same night that we were moving. And I'm dodging the chain flail attached to the bulldozer, 00:30:34.820 --> 00:30:37.950 - which is still running even though we're 00:30:38.338 --> 00:30:44.686 - We're just desperately trying to squeeze in there, and we had permission to do that, right? You see 00:30:44.686 --> 00:30:51.289 - what I'm saying? It's irrelevant. One of the camps that's closing. Can we just, I've been notified that 00:30:51.289 --> 00:30:57.637 - people can't hear very well, so what I'd like to do is read it. I'll just pull it closer to make it 00:30:57.637 --> 00:31:03.986 - easier. Or you can pass it around as you want to speak. I'm sorry I'm rambling a bit, but I want to 00:31:03.986 --> 00:31:06.398 - reiterate 30 days is a very easy ask. 00:31:07.106 --> 00:31:14.834 - I think we could probably get a commitment to that. It doesn't really change anything for you guys, 00:31:14.834 --> 00:31:22.561 - right? From here on out, that is a thing you could guarantee. And again, that little time, I put my 00:31:22.561 --> 00:31:30.366 - life on the line potentially to help these people get what they needed to survive the same night. So 00:31:30.366 --> 00:31:34.462 - is that possible? Can we get a yes or no on 30 days? 00:31:34.978 --> 00:31:41.483 - It makes everything so much safer and easier if we have time to gather resources to do that work. I 00:31:41.483 --> 00:31:48.118 - know that their period of time is different, but I'm just curious. It's 30, which is why we would ask 00:31:48.118 --> 00:31:54.818 - for that. It would be consistent and then it would make everything easier when people come down. Like, 00:31:54.818 --> 00:32:01.584 - yeah, this is a really acute crisis precisely because we had 30 days for one camp, which is manageable, 00:32:01.584 --> 00:32:04.446 - still really hard, still an incredible ask. 00:32:04.866 --> 00:32:12.631 - but then seven days was desperate, and it was on the same day for both of them. Can we get a yes or 00:32:12.631 --> 00:32:20.396 - no to that? Can we get a yes or no on that? Well, we can't really take an official vote. I will say 00:32:20.396 --> 00:32:28.394 - that I support it, and, you know, obviously, if possible, I would even do more, but we need a short... 00:32:28.394 --> 00:32:31.966 - Well, let's write something up, and we can... 00:32:32.834 --> 00:32:39.456 - We're asking for it now because it's very easy. I just said I support it. I support it. And what we 00:32:39.456 --> 00:32:46.144 - could do is work to get it on the agenda for next week's meeting. And nothing's happening next week. 00:32:46.144 --> 00:32:53.096 - So we could officially vote on it still before Christmas. Are you all right with that? Yes. And we can't 00:32:53.096 --> 00:32:56.606 - just make a decision like that. We're not the mayor. 00:32:57.026 --> 00:33:02.642 - against the law for us to do that. We can say we support it, but it won't be binding, binding until 00:33:02.642 --> 00:33:08.426 - we vote on it next session. Are you all good to make your constituents to vote that through next week, 00:33:08.426 --> 00:33:14.491 - then? Yes? That issue, yes. And then we have others to talk through. So we have to figure out the remainder 00:33:14.491 --> 00:33:20.332 - of it. So we have, you know, I'm keeping a list of the things that we have to talk about. So yes, we'll 00:33:20.332 --> 00:33:23.870 - be voted through next week. So I think it's a very good point. 00:33:24.002 --> 00:33:30.495 - can't just promise something in this room that could be binding. There's no way to do that. But I think 00:33:30.495 --> 00:33:37.113 - you can come up with a date when you will have a draft of what your statement will be, what our statement 00:33:37.113 --> 00:33:43.606 - as a county will be. And then once we have that in front of us on that date, publicly post it. And more 00:33:43.606 --> 00:33:49.662 - importantly, post it for the people who are most directly involved. We can put it out there on a 00:33:49.890 --> 00:33:56.308 - on a board or whatever it takes. And then there are other places in town where we can do that. The community 00:33:56.308 --> 00:34:02.255 - kitchen is one. As of that date, have a period of public comment. And then at the end of that public 00:34:02.255 --> 00:34:08.731 - comment, come up with, you know, maybe the next draft of it, do some comment on that. With the understanding. 00:34:08.731 --> 00:34:14.855 - That pushes us into next year, if you're okay with that, because there's no way we could do all of that 00:34:14.855 --> 00:34:18.270 - before next Thursday. I just want to point that out. Yes. 00:34:19.234 --> 00:34:25.925 - There are, yeah, sure. There's also three hands online as well. Yeah, that's who's winning to get let 00:34:25.925 --> 00:34:32.813 - in. Yeah. I agree with Congress trying to operate in the spirit of compromise. I definitely think that's 00:34:32.813 --> 00:34:39.504 - important here. However, none of us are going to be more out. I was in 30 days. My lupus is not going 00:34:39.504 --> 00:34:46.260 - to be cured in 30 days. So maybe another compromise that I would like to posit is potentially agreeing 00:34:46.260 --> 00:34:47.966 - not to sell until spring. 00:34:48.674 --> 00:34:55.081 - since that seems to be the largest mitigating factor of the property no longer being available. Did 00:34:55.081 --> 00:35:01.551 - I hear him say don't sell until spring? I would tell you just the mechanics of what we have to do in 00:35:01.551 --> 00:35:07.637 - order to sell it. It's probably a two to three month process anyway. It's not going to happen. 00:35:07.637 --> 00:35:14.108 - So mechanically I don't think it could happen until March at the earliest. So why are you using that 00:35:14.108 --> 00:35:16.222 - as a reason to try to evict now? 00:35:16.514 --> 00:35:23.915 - No, I'm not using that as a reason. I'm just telling, what I'm saying is this county, this property 00:35:23.915 --> 00:35:31.315 - will not always belong to the county. It may be sold in a year, it may be sold in five years. So to 00:35:31.315 --> 00:35:38.790 - set up a series of rules, et cetera, at some point we're not gonna be owners of the property. That's 00:35:38.790 --> 00:35:42.046 - all I'm saying. I'm just being transparent. 00:35:42.402 --> 00:35:48.318 - so that in a year, if the property goes on for sale, we don't have people coming back going, 00:35:48.318 --> 00:35:55.060 - we told this, we could use this for this forever. No, I'm saying that this property belongs to the county 00:35:55.060 --> 00:36:01.548 - now, but it will, at some point, no longer belong to the county. It will not happen. I'd say it would 00:36:01.548 --> 00:36:07.909 - take at least 90 days, if not more, to sell that, and that would be expedited, and I don't see that 00:36:07.909 --> 00:36:09.054 - happening either. 00:36:10.242 --> 00:36:19.417 - I think it'd be extremely difficult to sell it in six months, but I think 30 days is kind of a, or 90 00:36:19.417 --> 00:36:28.682 - days is kind of a bare-based, if we got lucky, minimum, maximum. So can we go ahead and have the folks 00:36:28.682 --> 00:36:36.958 - on Teams one at a time speak? TSD, if you could do that. I cannot see the screen from here. 00:36:40.194 --> 00:36:50.077 - Thank you. ER is the first one. Can you guys hear me? Yes, thank you. Okay, wonderful. Thank you, everybody. 00:36:50.077 --> 00:36:59.779 - My name is Erin Reynolds Nyland and I am the Housing Solutions Director with Heading Home of South Central 00:36:59.779 --> 00:37:06.398 - Indiana. Our Executive Director spoke on Tuesday night, I believe, about 00:37:07.682 --> 00:37:15.188 - Like just appreciating everybody's work so far, I would like to say, and kind of give a quick background 00:37:15.188 --> 00:37:22.551 - about the organization and my role in the organization. Recently, we were able to get a grant from the 00:37:22.551 --> 00:37:29.771 - Lilly Endowment to deploy six street outreach case managers who are focused on housing those who are 00:37:29.771 --> 00:37:36.062 - unsheltered in Monroe County. And since late October, we've deployed five case managers 00:37:36.354 --> 00:37:44.211 - who are actually, I think, interacting a lot with the people who are in this room. And on behalf of 00:37:44.211 --> 00:37:52.067 - them and myself, the community, thank you guys for the consistent support that you are providing to 00:37:52.067 --> 00:38:00.003 - our unsheltered neighbors. And I want to say that I really would love to figure out how we can align 00:38:00.003 --> 00:38:03.774 - and resource, not share, but to be able to know 00:38:04.130 --> 00:38:12.186 - how to leverage each other and unify our efforts and say that we were all going about this and knowledge 00:38:12.186 --> 00:38:19.858 - of awareness of what each other are doing, because I would really hate for any kind of resources to 00:38:19.858 --> 00:38:27.146 - be duplicated. But if we can align and unify for those who are at the forefront of this issue, 00:38:27.146 --> 00:38:32.670 - I would really, really enjoy that. And then, too, I do want to say that 00:38:33.346 --> 00:38:41.938 - Overall, so I supervise the street outreach case managers and three diversion case managers, but I'm 00:38:41.938 --> 00:38:50.701 - also part of more systematic supports and developing those and aligning everything that has to do with 00:38:50.701 --> 00:38:59.463 - trying to house and make sure we keep our unhoused neighbors safe. And so part of that is coordinating 00:38:59.463 --> 00:39:02.526 - and orchestrating the deployment of 00:39:02.818 --> 00:39:09.608 - housing case managers once we learned that this was going to be shut down. So I was able to try to help 00:39:09.608 --> 00:39:16.267 - coordinate at least a message and consistent engagement to make sure that our neighbors aren't flying 00:39:16.267 --> 00:39:22.795 - under the radar. Nobody's going missing through displacement, which makes our jobs a lot harder and 00:39:22.795 --> 00:39:29.389 - making sure that these people are safe and engaged. And so more systematically outside of the direct 00:39:29.389 --> 00:39:31.870 - service, I am working on implementing 00:39:32.386 --> 00:39:40.294 - and have grand ideas that I want all of you guys to be at the table for when it comes to a protocol. 00:39:40.294 --> 00:39:48.124 - There is a Heading Home Encampment Guide, I think it's called. It's not a protocol necessarily, but 00:39:48.124 --> 00:39:56.032 - it's a guide that takes evidence-informed experiences into what is a dignified and humane way. If an 00:39:56.032 --> 00:40:01.278 - encampment must be shut down, this is the way that we go about it. 00:40:01.474 --> 00:40:10.111 - myself, Mary Morgan, who is going to be communicating with the county council member or commissioners 00:40:10.111 --> 00:40:18.578 - to say like, hey, heading home can help organize and unify these encampment protocols. And if these 00:40:18.578 --> 00:40:27.214 - things do have to be, if the camps have to be closed, then this is exactly who is mobilized and when, 00:40:27.214 --> 00:40:30.686 - and what are the terms under which we're 00:40:30.914 --> 00:40:38.745 - we're closing the camps if it has to happen at all because I totally agree evictions, especially in 00:40:38.745 --> 00:40:46.653 - winter are undignified and put a lot of people in a really, it puts people in a bind and risks their 00:40:46.653 --> 00:40:54.014 - safety. So I just wanted to come on and say that there are overarching protocols that we have 00:40:56.258 --> 00:41:05.013 - we have a path forward with. And I see so much opportunity here to move forward and to unify and to 00:41:05.013 --> 00:41:13.943 - share each other's passion and yeah, just really work together. So please keep just like awareness of 00:41:13.943 --> 00:41:22.786 - kind of what I'm doing. If you are curious about reaching out to me or how I can reach out to you, I 00:41:22.786 --> 00:41:25.150 - would love to get together 00:41:25.250 --> 00:41:31.480 - Let you guys know what the what the opportunity is and when those conversations start happening because 00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:37.591 - it doesn't happen alone. It doesn't happen with Just one person or just a group, right? Like you guys 00:41:37.591 --> 00:41:43.821 - have gotten a really you guys gotten really really far with the opposition and the advocacy that you've 00:41:43.821 --> 00:41:49.871 - done and I think that's incredibly admirable and I would love to team up and use your experience and 00:41:49.871 --> 00:41:50.590 - support and 00:41:50.722 --> 00:41:58.176 - creating a protocol that is dignified and safe. So please, my name is Erin Reynolds Nyland. Please feel 00:41:58.176 --> 00:42:05.629 - free to reach out, find my name on the website. And thank you just all for being here and the work that 00:42:05.629 --> 00:42:13.370 - you're doing for our community. Thank you, Erin. We haven't set a timer on anybody, but we'd ask commenters 00:42:13.370 --> 00:42:17.598 - to keep their comments brief because we do have an overall 00:42:23.138 --> 00:42:29.936 - Hello, my name is Zach Ammerman. I'm a Bloomington resident. I just want to say, one, I think it's, 00:42:29.936 --> 00:42:37.278 - I want to thank you for postponing the eviction. I think it's kind of a shame that you would be considering 00:42:37.278 --> 00:42:44.144 - a winter eviction in the first place to begin with. I think it's, but it's nonetheless positive that 00:42:44.144 --> 00:42:49.854 - you are now postponing it indefinitely. So I think that's good. I also want to say, 00:42:50.210 --> 00:42:54.853 - Well, I think 30 days is bare minimum. The fact that it sounds like you're maybe, you maybe got that 00:42:54.853 --> 00:42:59.450 - down coming down the pike and you don't have a formal agreement yet. That's also positive. So thank 00:42:59.450 --> 00:43:04.093 - you for that. Um, but beyond that, before, before all of that, I also, I just want to point out that 00:43:04.093 --> 00:43:08.735 - I've heard from several different people in, um, County officials in the meeting so far. So at least 00:43:08.735 --> 00:43:13.378 - three or four different reasons why you might one day need to evict them anyway. Um, the health code 00:43:13.378 --> 00:43:16.734 - zoning, maybe one day you might theoretically want to sell the property. 00:43:17.410 --> 00:43:22.849 - That sounds to me like you're kind of grasping at straws trying to find reasons why you might one day 00:43:22.849 --> 00:43:28.288 - want to evict them. If you do that, where do you think people are going to go? You're just moving the 00:43:28.288 --> 00:43:33.728 - problem around from one place to another. And if you actually want to solve the problem, homelessness 00:43:33.728 --> 00:43:39.167 - is a housing problem. If you actually want to long-term solve the problem, you need to spend the next 00:43:39.167 --> 00:43:44.446 - six months working around the clock getting these people housing and resources. That's the answer. 00:43:45.442 --> 00:43:51.806 - And so I appreciate the progress that's been made in this meeting, it sounds like, and the postponement. 00:43:51.806 --> 00:43:58.109 - That's positive, but if you actually want to solve the problem, we have answers, housing and resources. 00:43:58.109 --> 00:44:04.412 - Focus on that for the next six months instead of focusing on trying to find reasons that you might want 00:44:04.412 --> 00:44:10.472 - to theoretically victim. Thank you. Thank you. And that's exactly what we can talk about if you all 00:44:10.472 --> 00:44:14.654 - want to, which is what does that housing look like? How do we do it? 00:44:15.010 --> 00:44:25.690 - What do those resources look like? How do we do it? I don't have anything to say. I think Matt would 00:44:25.690 --> 00:44:36.370 - like to be paired with the case manager to discuss that. OK. I, again, personally, just cannot. I've 00:44:36.370 --> 00:44:44.830 - never found a way to be indoors long term. I take mostly seasonal work outside. 00:44:45.122 --> 00:44:55.452 - I camp outside most of the year. I'm from Michigan, so the winter doesn't really bother me very much. 00:44:55.452 --> 00:45:04.770 - It's better than passing out all the time. Yeah, just on the issue of selling the property, 00:45:04.770 --> 00:45:12.670 - so my understanding is that county has to approve it so that could take place 00:45:13.154 --> 00:45:19.611 - You guys have decision making over when that could happen? Could you guys ever not, like, could you 00:45:19.611 --> 00:45:26.197 - make, put it in writing, you know, to say that you would not sell during dangerous weather, inclement 00:45:26.197 --> 00:45:33.041 - weather situations? Is that, or, I mean, if this is the issue right now, I imagine if you have the option 00:45:33.041 --> 00:45:38.206 - to sell and it would take two or three months, if it's November, you could say, 00:45:38.530 --> 00:45:48.110 - What do you want to sell it so badly in the first place? It's taxpayer money. And constituents are using 00:45:48.110 --> 00:45:57.416 - it to live, right? Why sell it? It was actually for sale for a long time. But you can pull that back. 00:45:57.416 --> 00:46:01.886 - You don't need to keep trying to sell it. Right? 00:46:05.474 --> 00:46:11.280 - People have said, ideally, you don't sell it, so people can live there indefinitely. So why sell it? 00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:17.258 - I think people live on that property is not a long-term sustainable solution because the city will come 00:46:17.258 --> 00:46:23.063 - after that problem and solve that their own way. The state will come after that problem and solve it 00:46:23.063 --> 00:46:29.042 - their own way. And sometime, somewhere, there will be something that happens on that property for which 00:46:29.042 --> 00:46:35.422 - we are liable. And we can put a temporary stop to the problem, but the temporary stop is not a permanent stop. 00:46:36.194 --> 00:46:42.184 - And so y'all do the city or the state's job of evicting it now, rather than laying them take, you know, 00:46:42.184 --> 00:46:48.000 - that action. It's better we keep local control over local problems than cede that to the state, yes. 00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:53.990 - If I may introduce, because I know you want to move beyond this conversation, and I'm glad that we have 00:46:53.990 --> 00:46:59.864 - an understanding that the evictions are happening pertinently. I think the concerns of my friend here 00:46:59.864 --> 00:47:06.142 - are incredibly valid that long-term solutions not to our living are something that the county should pursue. 00:47:06.530 --> 00:47:13.049 - Primarily, ordinance changes to allow camping in certain scenarios or even a property that you approve 00:47:13.049 --> 00:47:19.568 - that you have resources, bathrooms, resources for. Changing the ordinances around tiny home complexes, 00:47:19.568 --> 00:47:26.024 - low barrier housing. And I mean, incredibly low barrier housing. This one cannot get into housing. So 00:47:26.024 --> 00:47:29.758 - they will likely live the majority of their life outdoors. 00:47:30.146 --> 00:47:35.865 - The county does have the ability to appropriate a parcel of land, push for zoning, buy a purchase at 00:47:35.865 --> 00:47:41.640 - retrofit of the resources, and make sure that people like Ash, and there are many people with special 00:47:41.640 --> 00:47:47.699 - cases, do have a place to stay even if housing is not an intended long-term solution. So I'd say primarily 00:47:47.699 --> 00:47:53.701 - one, locate land by, or maybe private donations. I'm sure people have land that they're willing to donate 00:47:53.701 --> 00:47:59.646 - for this cause. Establish what resources you need to have present, to be in compliance with health code, 00:48:00.002 --> 00:48:05.482 - petition the council for that money, make it happen and build it out. And hopefully you can do that 00:48:05.482 --> 00:48:11.126 - before you'd ever have to take this camp. We can move people to a stable spot. A lot of people are not 00:48:11.126 --> 00:48:16.661 - in long-term on-house situations out in the woods, but the lack of stability from the fictions means 00:48:16.661 --> 00:48:22.141 - that they have to restart. Maybe get a new phone or bottom documents. And so a stable campground or 00:48:22.141 --> 00:48:28.004 - a stable, incredibly low barrier housing is a jumpstart into housing, right? Or it is a long-term solution 00:48:28.004 --> 00:48:29.758 - for those who cannot be housed. 00:48:30.370 --> 00:48:35.759 - people have moved into like long-term housing solutions because that is something you can do and if 00:48:35.759 --> 00:48:41.256 - you don't want to see this issue to the state you can give that commitment right you can not sell the 00:48:41.256 --> 00:48:46.807 - land until people have that long-term housing because otherwise you're just gonna be causing more harm 00:48:46.807 --> 00:48:52.574 - by evicting prematurely without actually having any sort of plan why not develop that plan despite however 00:48:52.574 --> 00:48:53.598 - long it might take 00:48:55.010 --> 00:49:02.790 - We can take all of that under advisement, but I will tell you that that's a very nebulous concept to 00:49:02.790 --> 00:49:10.648 - say long-term housing, because there will be new people. There will be people who have found housing, 00:49:10.648 --> 00:49:18.428 - hopefully. But then there will be new people. And then when does that stop? And so we'd have to nail 00:49:18.428 --> 00:49:23.358 - that down legally. And it's a concept that we can talk through. 00:49:24.930 --> 00:49:31.642 - And if I may speak, that's all right. Well, I absolutely agree with that. I think there was a lot more 00:49:31.642 --> 00:49:38.159 - you were saying on that than just long-term housing. I think that's a bit of an unfair statement to 00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:45.001 - just summarize it as that. I think you had a lot more plans in mind and a lot more pertinent suggestions 00:49:45.001 --> 00:49:51.518 - around the concept of low barrier housing that can have new people come in. It was still not like a 00:49:51.746 --> 00:50:01.387 - permanent solution for the individual person, but rather a way for people to have a safer form of shelter 00:50:01.387 --> 00:50:10.664 - and housing for long-term issues like homelessness. And so I think you personally gave a lot of great 00:50:10.664 --> 00:50:19.850 - points, and I think giving attention to those points and that plan could really give you what you're 00:50:19.850 --> 00:50:21.214 - talking about. 00:50:22.402 --> 00:50:28.743 - I really think it's more valuable to hear their opinion than even mine. So I want to make sure that 00:50:28.743 --> 00:50:35.148 - maybe next, would you like to speak a little bit about it? Well, I just wanted to point out, I think 00:50:35.148 --> 00:50:41.553 - Commissioner Thomas and I may have found our first piece of common ground this evening. I think some 00:50:41.553 --> 00:50:48.338 - of my comrades are forgetting the nature of homelessness. Many of us are outside for all kinds of reasons. 00:50:48.338 --> 00:50:50.494 - Everyone has a very unique story. 00:50:50.626 --> 00:50:58.177 - one common thread is moderate to severe mental illness. I'm thinking of one of my neighbors specifically 00:50:58.177 --> 00:51:05.656 - that has severe paranoid episodes. And every time the drones visit us to monitor us for a little while, 00:51:05.656 --> 00:51:13.063 - she gets quite inconsolable. And the reason that we're able to deal with her in our current, deal with 00:51:13.063 --> 00:51:20.542 - her, that sounds very dismissive. The reason we're able to support her in our current situation is that 00:51:21.090 --> 00:51:28.419 - I mean, one, like Commissioner Madeira pointed out, we are quite spread out. We do keep our space. And 00:51:28.419 --> 00:51:35.677 - then two, we are de-escalation trained. We have been homeless around other homeless people for a long 00:51:35.677 --> 00:51:42.792 - time. We know how to talk each other down. And if she were in some sort of housing situation, maybe 00:51:42.792 --> 00:51:49.694 - she got placed at Crawford or what have you, the second she had an incredibly severe episode and 00:51:49.826 --> 00:51:56.667 - you know, had some sort of interaction with, you know, any of the staff there or what have you, she 00:51:56.667 --> 00:52:03.577 - would be unhoused again. And so I think that is one of the most important reasons to underscore that 00:52:03.577 --> 00:52:10.556 - there has to be a different solution than evicting. We're not all going to be inside. Clearly not all 00:52:10.556 --> 00:52:15.550 - of us want to be in the woods forever, but just there has to be a better 00:52:15.810 --> 00:52:23.190 - solution, then either you go inside or we're going to throw all of your stuff in the dumpster every 00:52:23.190 --> 00:52:30.792 - three months. That's very weird. Did you want to add anything? Not really. Yeah, I understand. They've 00:52:30.792 --> 00:52:38.320 - basically been saying a lot of things. I thank you, though. And the reason I honed in on the specific 00:52:38.320 --> 00:52:44.446 - question about long-term housing was because that was the question that was posed. 00:52:44.546 --> 00:52:50.435 - but I have written down low barrier housing campsite with facilities, tiny homes. I wrote it down. I 00:52:50.435 --> 00:52:56.382 - appreciate that. So I just want to make sure you knew that I'm listening. No, no worries at all. I've 00:52:56.382 --> 00:53:02.388 - made great precedents for that. Thank you. What I have is a question we're going to ask you, Matt, and 00:53:02.388 --> 00:53:08.510 - if you'd like to add anything to this. What I'm imagining, based on some of the issues with the Thompson 00:53:08.510 --> 00:53:13.758 - property being city-owned, technically, or it's inside city limits so the county owns it, 00:53:13.922 --> 00:53:22.860 - So there is complications with that. Let's say hypothetically that this land or land of a comparable 00:53:22.860 --> 00:53:31.975 - or bigger size that existed was county owned and there was, my question for you all would be, is there 00:53:31.975 --> 00:53:40.382 - any way for there to be land in the county that would be similar to the Thompson property land 00:53:40.674 --> 00:53:49.327 - but would be outside of the city or state jurisdictions. And then my question for you guys would be, 00:53:49.327 --> 00:53:58.409 - let's say this land that exists now or this hypothetical land that could be donated or could be community 00:53:58.409 --> 00:54:07.491 - fundraised or what have you. That land, what would be maybe a vision for it just existing as the Thompson 00:54:07.491 --> 00:54:08.862 - property is now 00:54:08.994 --> 00:54:18.846 - but without having that looming possibility of city eviction, is that kind of, would that be the most 00:54:18.846 --> 00:54:28.504 - satisfactory outcome? Or if that was the situation, what would then you want to see from the county 00:54:28.504 --> 00:54:34.782 - to then support it? I'm seeing three primary concerns with that. 00:54:35.746 --> 00:54:42.529 - The first being that it would not be possible for land in the county to be outside of state jurisdiction. 00:54:42.529 --> 00:54:49.184 - The second being that if it were outside of city limits, it would be quite far from any of the services 00:54:49.184 --> 00:54:55.647 - that we currently maintain. We wouldn't be able to visit the warming centers. We wouldn't be able to 00:54:55.647 --> 00:55:01.982 - go to the library, the food banks, any of that. And then the third is that I'm assuming one of the 00:55:02.914 --> 00:55:09.016 - building code violation, or yeah, I believe building code violations that was shared with us is that 00:55:09.016 --> 00:55:15.601 - if we were an official campground, we would need a security force. If there were a security force monitoring 00:55:15.601 --> 00:55:21.703 - this property at any time, it puts people who may have more severe issues closer to people who, even 00:55:21.703 --> 00:55:27.926 - if they did not have guns, even if they had everybody camera in the world, all of the mitigations that 00:55:27.926 --> 00:55:32.638 - we love to talk about for policing, they would still have the power to arrest 00:55:32.994 --> 00:55:41.597 - And I would like to highlight the story of our beloved Miss Kim that we lost this fall. She was arrested 00:55:41.597 --> 00:55:50.118 - on some misdemeanor charge and died in holding. And the cause of that was never really fully determined 00:55:50.118 --> 00:55:58.640 - to my knowledge. No one really quite knows the story that happened there. And I think no one's honestly 00:55:58.640 --> 00:56:00.606 - really looking into it. 00:56:01.122 --> 00:56:12.017 - But, you know, we miss the crazy funny old lady that used to busk on the side of Seminary Park. So. 00:56:12.017 --> 00:56:23.130 - There's a couple people online. Yeah, why don't we bring someone on? There's one hand raised, TSG, if 00:56:23.130 --> 00:56:25.854 - you could bring them on. 00:56:39.298 --> 00:56:47.813 - Can you hear me? Yes. Hi, this is Katie Norris with Hotels for Homeless. I missed the beginning of this, 00:56:47.813 --> 00:56:56.004 - also another issue with teams. From what I understand, the eviction has been stayed. I would like to 00:56:56.004 --> 00:57:04.195 - express my deepest gratitudes. I truly cannot thank you enough. Each and every person that had a say 00:57:04.195 --> 00:57:08.574 - so or was able to help make that decision, thank you. 00:57:09.186 --> 00:57:16.362 - Thank you, thank you, thank you. As far as what Erin Reynolds was saying from heading home, I would 00:57:16.362 --> 00:57:23.681 - just want to absolutely second that in every way, shape or form. I would like to collaborate with any 00:57:23.681 --> 00:57:30.929 - and all other social services or organizations or groups who would like to help. I will go ahead and 00:57:30.929 --> 00:57:38.249 - give anyone that's listening here my cell phone number. You can reach out to me. I answer my phone 24 00:57:38.249 --> 00:57:39.038 - seven 365. 00:57:39.682 --> 00:57:50.585 - My phone number is 812-219-8817. Our email address is h4hbloomington at gmail.com, with the number four 00:57:50.585 --> 00:58:01.279 - being in between the two letter Hs. If there is anybody here who can think of anything that we can do 00:58:01.279 --> 00:58:08.094 - to help, please let us know. You can call me, text me, email me. 00:58:08.546 --> 00:58:16.827 - We do have a lot of short-term and long-term solutions in the works. Clearly, Hotels for Homeless offers 00:58:16.827 --> 00:58:24.951 - hotels. We also offer telephones to help people get in contact with us so we don't lose track of them, 00:58:24.951 --> 00:58:32.837 - because that is a big thing. I remember in 2020, with the seminary eviction, it took me 31 hours to 00:58:32.837 --> 00:58:36.702 - find 28 people. And I mean, I didn't get a stop. 00:58:36.802 --> 00:58:43.300 - I was on the phone while I was using the restroom. I was on the phone while I was eating. My children 00:58:43.300 --> 00:58:49.925 - got zero attention, and it was a nightmare. It was an absolute nightmare. So if this is going to happen 00:58:49.925 --> 00:58:56.614 - at some point, the first thing we'd like to offer is cell phones to everybody so they can be in contact. 00:58:56.614 --> 00:59:02.985 - The second would clearly be hotel rooms if it was an emergency weather situation, which I pray that 00:59:02.985 --> 00:59:05.278 - it never is because that is insane. 00:59:05.730 --> 00:59:12.193 - And then also casework. As far as long-term solutions, we have some other organizations in the works. 00:59:12.193 --> 00:59:18.910 - We have Tommy's trailers. We own a trailer. We would like to give it away to somebody. That is affordable 00:59:18.910 --> 00:59:25.500 - housing. We have plans to get more. We are working with multiple different trailer courts. It's between 00:59:25.500 --> 00:59:31.900 - five and $600 lot rent. That is affordable housing. We're working with area 10 that has an apartment 00:59:31.900 --> 00:59:34.878 - open right now for someone over the age of 55. 00:59:35.042 --> 00:59:42.384 - We are working with a veterans unit who is there to provide trailers just to veterans and housing just 00:59:42.384 --> 00:59:49.583 - to veterans. We are starting Kirk's Cars, which is going to allow transportation to be given away at 00:59:49.583 --> 00:59:56.997 - no cost to those who are experiencing street homelessness, including drivable RVs with beds in the back 00:59:56.997 --> 01:00:01.630 - of them. We need help with all of these things and this eviction 01:00:01.954 --> 01:00:08.482 - We're getting ready to do our Christmas program, which I'll tell you this morning when I showed up, 01:00:08.482 --> 01:00:14.487 - I explained to my family that we've done this for six years. If this eviction goes through, 01:00:14.487 --> 01:00:21.406 - there's no way, no way we will be able to do it. Our resources will be sucked dry in a matter of moments. 01:00:21.406 --> 01:00:28.065 - So thank you for that, because now we will be able to do that. Sorry, I lost my train of thought with 01:00:28.065 --> 01:00:29.566 - the Christmas program. 01:00:32.386 --> 01:00:38.005 - But we wanna make this happen. We wanna offer all of these resources, short-term and long-term, and 01:00:38.005 --> 01:00:43.681 - we wanna work with anybody and everybody who also wants to work with us on these, and we are open to 01:00:43.681 --> 01:00:49.356 - suggestions, ideas, and also, if anybody in the world can volunteer at the emergency winter shelter, 01:00:49.356 --> 01:00:55.313 - please, dear God, go volunteer at that winter shelter, please. That's all I got for at the moment, unless 01:00:55.313 --> 01:00:56.830 - anybody has any questions. 01:01:36.290 --> 01:01:45.922 - If we unmute them, it will still show muted until they unmute. So both have to be unmuted. Yeah. So 01:01:45.922 --> 01:01:55.843 - it's an odd thing with teams. They left the meeting. Yes, we can. I thought I heard someone. They said 01:01:55.843 --> 01:02:04.030 - they left the meeting. Oh, shoot. OK. OK. They're still there. Yeah, hands up again. 01:02:15.170 --> 01:02:22.675 - with hell because the whole meeting they were on can you hear me finally can you finally hear me yes 01:02:22.675 --> 01:02:30.254 - this is literally the only time on teams today that it has allowed me to unmute myself i'm just going 01:02:30.254 --> 01:02:37.908 - to go on record for that maybe find a different streaming platform and now i can't hear you all at all 01:02:37.908 --> 01:02:42.366 - so i'm going to keep talking hoping that you can hear me um 01:02:43.362 --> 01:02:50.142 - As this has been patchy, there's a possibility that this point has already been made. We're talking 01:02:50.142 --> 01:02:56.990 - about the property being up for sale, issues with state and city zoning and codes. There was an idea 01:02:56.990 --> 01:03:04.177 - that was floated around about the property being able to be sold to a nonprofit organization or a private 01:03:04.177 --> 01:03:06.686 - organization to kind of bypass that. 01:03:06.946 --> 01:03:12.555 - like to float that as a potential. I don't know what heading home status is. I think they're a 501c3 01:03:12.555 --> 01:03:18.275 - and I'm not sure if that's something that heading home has looked into. I do also want to say I really 01:03:18.275 --> 01:03:23.884 - appreciate Erin coming on here today and I'm trying to ask this question like knowing that everybody 01:03:23.884 --> 01:03:30.270 - is like earnestly trying to show up where they can but if Erin is still here I don't know that our people have met 01:03:30.434 --> 01:03:37.487 - any of your outreach team. And that is speaking for like those of us who are doing outreach at RCA as 01:03:37.487 --> 01:03:39.838 - well as the folks who live there. 01:03:40.002 --> 01:03:46.714 - not, like the connection's not linking. And I do like earnestly mean that not in a like hostile or accusatory 01:03:46.714 --> 01:03:53.182 - way, just of like, where is that missing link happening? And how can we bridge it? Because it does really 01:03:53.182 --> 01:03:59.406 - sound like, especially after your executive director showed up and after you showed up that you wanna 01:03:59.406 --> 01:04:05.569 - create the opportunity for this collaboration. So let's find a way to do it for sure. That's my kind 01:04:05.569 --> 01:04:08.254 - of thought around there. I think, you know, 01:04:08.642 --> 01:04:14.588 - The Thompson properties already owned by the county right now, and it's 95 acres roughly. It already 01:04:14.588 --> 01:04:20.475 - has people who are living there. We have underscored that not everybody is going to be able to find 01:04:20.475 --> 01:04:26.480 - a permanent housing solution. And frankly, if we can even try to put a timeline on housing crisis and 01:04:26.480 --> 01:04:32.368 - houselessness solutions, then like you're braver than me. I don't foresee this being a better issue 01:04:32.368 --> 01:04:38.608 - sooner. I see it being a bigger problem with federal government decisions and state government decisions. 01:04:38.608 --> 01:04:45.156 - would be remiss to even attempt a timeline. I think right now the only thing we can do is look at protecting 01:04:45.156 --> 01:04:51.283 - the assets that exist already for the community and how they're being served. And so I do really urge 01:04:51.283 --> 01:04:57.411 - considering number one, not selling the Thompson property. And number two, if you do sell it, selling 01:04:57.411 --> 01:05:03.358 - it specifically to use as a bridge program of some sort. And if that has to be through 501C3, then 01:05:03.458 --> 01:05:11.996 - That's an avenue to explore. But this is the only way that we can actually keep people safe with the 01:05:11.996 --> 01:05:20.787 - power that we have at the county level. And I am done on that. Thank you. I'm glad you can finally hear 01:05:20.787 --> 01:05:29.325 - me. I would love to support ordinance changes in small communities. There are still those who cannot 01:05:29.325 --> 01:05:32.030 - enter even low barrier housing. 01:05:32.258 --> 01:05:38.391 - So one, I'll be fighting for you against the planning commission, because I love your policy. But two, 01:05:38.391 --> 01:05:44.345 - I know that one of the things that was talked about in a camping facility is the need for security. 01:05:44.345 --> 01:05:50.597 - And cops are, even SSOs, are implicitly escalatory, because they have the implicit state power to commit 01:05:50.597 --> 01:05:56.909 - violence against people via arrests. Whatever else police do, they brutalize. So police aren't an option. 01:05:56.909 --> 01:06:00.958 - The community will not trust a place with a strong police presence. 01:06:01.186 --> 01:06:07.003 - That's just history. History has done that. And what I would like to propose as maybe an alternative, 01:06:07.003 --> 01:06:12.763 - and we can look into the legality of these avenues, is working with the community in a self-pleasing 01:06:12.763 --> 01:06:18.466 - way. Maybe they get organized into a 501c3. You have a tax number. You can slap on it. You can send 01:06:18.466 --> 01:06:24.397 - it off, right? But the community itself and citizens, concerned citizens, can help make sure everyone's 01:06:24.397 --> 01:06:28.446 - OK, do check-ins, wellness checks, and show that the community's safe. 01:06:28.578 --> 01:06:33.754 - without the need for police involvement. And I understand that involving police makes security easy 01:06:33.754 --> 01:06:39.241 - because they're already legally covered. But if we can find a way to outsource that to us, we are willing 01:06:39.241 --> 01:06:44.624 - to take on that burden. We're willing to really hold the reins here and walk with you guys through this 01:06:44.624 --> 01:06:49.800 - process. But at the end of the day, police will never create a space that long-term on-house people 01:06:49.800 --> 01:06:51.870 - want to be in. Just a quick correction. 01:06:52.066 --> 01:06:59.150 - I don't think planning is against these. I don't think they've ever been presented with a formal plan. 01:06:59.150 --> 01:07:06.027 - Exactly. Exactly. There are some limitations in state law regarding tiny homes and mobile homes and 01:07:06.027 --> 01:07:13.042 - things like that that we can't overrule. We have to follow. So that's actually one of the things that 01:07:13.042 --> 01:07:19.437 - we've been talking through is how to create a tiny home community. How do we get that built? 01:07:19.437 --> 01:07:21.982 - How do we do it? Where can we do it? 01:07:22.498 --> 01:07:33.598 - How do we manage the septic sewage side of it? But I think a lot of these solutions will require public 01:07:33.598 --> 01:07:44.485 - tax dollar investment, right? And that's the bigger question in my mind is let's pull together ideas, 01:07:44.485 --> 01:07:50.462 - but let's also be realistic about what it's gonna cost. 01:07:50.946 --> 01:08:00.041 - and then put those things forward and see what the council, because the council does finances, we're 01:08:00.041 --> 01:08:09.046 - executive legislative, right? So the council's in charge of the money. So they would have to be the 01:08:09.046 --> 01:08:18.141 - ones to do that. But it's good to have proposals to put forward to them. What I'd really like to see 01:08:18.141 --> 01:08:19.582 - us do is create 01:08:20.386 --> 01:08:28.713 - because I don't think this is just a county issue and I do understand it's also a city issue and obviously 01:08:28.713 --> 01:08:36.574 - the city's in the county, right? So I think it would be really useful to have a conversation because 01:08:36.574 --> 01:08:44.590 - I think, and I'm gonna speak for me at this moment, not my colleagues. I'm just speaking for me. We've 01:08:44.590 --> 01:08:49.182 - put millions of dollars of taxpayer dollars, whether it be 01:08:49.538 --> 01:08:57.822 - American Rescue Plan Act money or state dollars or grant dollars from private not-for-profits. We put 01:08:57.822 --> 01:09:05.944 - in millions of dollars to try to address this problem, and I am utterly disappointed at the results 01:09:05.944 --> 01:09:14.553 - we've had so far. And I'm going to be honest about that, because I don't think the community has received 01:09:14.553 --> 01:09:16.990 - what it should have received. 01:09:19.010 --> 01:09:27.444 - yes yes yes but but i do feel like we need to have a conversation with um members of the county council 01:09:27.444 --> 01:09:35.635 - member of the board of commissioners members of the city council somebody from mayor's office or the 01:09:35.635 --> 01:09:43.827 - mayor herself i think we need to have a ground zero let's start this conversation all over again and 01:09:43.827 --> 01:09:45.854 - and tackle this in a way 01:09:46.434 --> 01:09:52.571 - that will actually address it. Heading home was supposed to be, because there are all these entities, 01:09:52.571 --> 01:09:58.707 - Wheeler, Beacon, et cetera, and they're all competing against one another for money. And then they're 01:09:58.707 --> 01:10:04.904 - less efficient as a result. So heading home was supposed to overcome that, right? The idea was heading 01:10:04.904 --> 01:10:11.281 - home was supposed to overcome those inefficiencies by working together. And I know we've got some veteran 01:10:11.281 --> 01:10:14.590 - housing and I know some things have improved, but I've 01:10:15.266 --> 01:10:22.135 - I had bigger hopes than what came out of it. So I'd really like to invite the city to that conversation, 01:10:22.135 --> 01:10:28.939 - to invite a member of county council that conversation and start that conversation all over again. What 01:10:28.939 --> 01:10:36.005 - are we going to do and how are we going to do it? And how much is it going to take money-wise, effort-wise, 01:10:36.005 --> 01:10:42.613 - how do we do it? And I think we need to start again and do it right this time. That's my take on it. 01:10:42.613 --> 01:10:44.510 - So I'm only speaking for me. 01:10:46.466 --> 01:10:53.243 - Okay, so I'm gonna try to lay out some things I think has been stated very clearly and Ash and Matt, 01:10:53.243 --> 01:11:00.154 - if y'all want to jump in at any point, clarify anything, add to anything, please do. So firstly, y'all 01:11:00.154 --> 01:11:06.998 - have laid out a few reasons for trying to evict this property at some point or another down the line. 01:11:06.998 --> 01:11:14.110 - One, you want to sell the property, which I mean I think we've argued against that in the first place and 01:11:14.242 --> 01:11:20.395 - It seems like the council would be willing to block that at any point that you try to do so from folks 01:11:20.395 --> 01:11:26.549 - that we've talked to on the council. Because yeah, we see a purpose of this land that is being met for 01:11:26.549 --> 01:11:32.643 - constituents. Bless you. And so yeah, I mean, that's one thing. Does that seem accurate of why are we 01:11:32.643 --> 01:11:38.617 - trying to sell this land when it's there and being used potentially? Two, another reason why you're 01:11:38.617 --> 01:11:43.934 - trying to carry out these evictions is you're claiming that there are sanitation issues. 01:11:44.450 --> 01:11:51.811 - It sounds like some folks went out and saw that those issues have always been blown out of proportion. 01:11:51.811 --> 01:11:58.673 - That's always been a talking point of justifying inhumane treatment beyond what's already done. 01:11:58.673 --> 01:12:06.105 - But also, who are y'all to decide what is unsanitary when folks are living there and are satisfied with 01:12:06.105 --> 01:12:14.110 - how it is and have also made very reasonable asks of maybe have the restrooms that are nearby open longer term. 01:12:14.626 --> 01:12:20.821 - So I think that's also been a viewpoint. Number three, you're saying that people will be safer inside 01:12:20.821 --> 01:12:27.016 - than outside. And y'all have not been able to ever provide that on an adequate scale. But once again, 01:12:27.016 --> 01:12:33.271 - I think it's been made clear why clear people off of where they have established their homes and throw 01:12:33.271 --> 01:12:39.588 - their property away. And how is that in any way making things safer? Secondly, Ash and other folks have 01:12:39.588 --> 01:12:42.078 - laid out very clearly that that is like, 01:12:42.466 --> 01:12:49.164 - Yeah, indoor housing is not at all a solution for everyone. And so my question is, another reason is 01:12:49.164 --> 01:12:56.061 - that y'all are saying that the city and the state would step in and carry out an eviction at some point 01:12:56.061 --> 01:13:02.692 - or another if y'all don't do this. My question is, those are the reasons I think I've heard so far. 01:13:02.692 --> 01:13:09.854 - It seems like it's pretty clear that while the county, city, state, government are all trying to figure out 01:13:11.042 --> 01:13:16.450 - y'all do to do this, you know, like indoor housing solutions for folks. That also this land is very 01:13:16.450 --> 01:13:21.912 - useful right now for camping and just long term, like for people to live because everywhere else has 01:13:21.912 --> 01:13:27.482 - been cleared repeatedly. So why not just have that land set aside as it is, not trying to sell it, not 01:13:27.482 --> 01:13:32.889 - trying to clear it from time to time, but just have it be there for people to stay permanently. And 01:13:32.889 --> 01:13:38.460 - I don't get why y'all are wanting to step in and take on the role of clearing it just because, oh, the 01:13:38.460 --> 01:13:40.190 - city and the state might do so. 01:13:40.898 --> 01:13:46.438 - I mean, you saw what we're doing here. We're opposing this in any way that we can. So we'll do the same 01:13:46.438 --> 01:13:51.977 - if needed on another scale. Also, y'all can just have those conversations and put that pressure on them 01:13:51.977 --> 01:13:57.251 - yourselves. Who cares if the relationship is strained or whatever? It's still your responsibility, 01:13:57.251 --> 01:14:02.577 - your job, as you say at the start of every single commissioner meeting, to be fighting for everyone 01:14:02.577 --> 01:14:08.223 - within your constituency and to be fighting for the rights of everyone. So once again, why are you trying 01:14:08.223 --> 01:14:09.342 - to clear this thing? 01:14:09.602 --> 01:14:14.513 - whatever reasons you have given that I think have been clear are not actually backed up by anything 01:14:14.513 --> 01:14:16.478 - material. Like, does that sound like... 01:14:40.834 --> 01:14:48.694 - stupid, like, hey, can I get $10 for this? They make themselves personally available. I have several 01:14:48.694 --> 01:14:56.476 - people's cell phone numbers in here for any sort of emergency that were to go wrong. But that being 01:14:56.476 --> 01:15:04.491 - said, if cost is the concern, I'm pleased to have saved you $35,000 on Monday. The health net contract 01:15:04.491 --> 01:15:08.382 - that was approved today, I believe, was $175,000. 01:15:08.802 --> 01:15:15.216 - I think I've seen a health net on the ground once the entire time I've lived out there. Do you see them 01:15:15.216 --> 01:15:21.508 - more often? I don't stay out there all day, so I haven't seen anybody. Do you see them downtown ever, 01:15:21.508 --> 01:15:27.675 - like at the services or hanging out anywhere near the library? Every once in a while. Every once in 01:15:27.675 --> 01:15:34.028 - a while, OK. My understanding is it's reported that they're going out every single day, multiple times 01:15:34.028 --> 01:15:38.654 - a day, is what they're putting in their reports to the people to pay them. 01:15:39.074 --> 01:15:47.117 - read the heading home plan for 2025 or 26, I believe 25 was the most recent year for my Betty Bayag 01:15:47.117 --> 01:15:55.241 - story on Monday evening. I was a little concerned that this is touted as like this is the major plan 01:15:55.241 --> 01:16:03.445 - that our community has come together and put and I saw exactly one lived experience consultant in the 01:16:03.445 --> 01:16:05.214 - people that wrote it. 01:16:07.074 --> 01:16:14.606 - I mean, there are good points in the Heading Home Plan. There are bad points in the Heading Home Plan. 01:16:14.606 --> 01:16:22.139 - This is not to harpoon any agency that's here and trying to do the work. It just seems like, as others 01:16:22.139 --> 01:16:29.744 - have stated before, nonprofits are just not managing their money correctly. And I mean, the people here 01:16:29.744 --> 01:16:30.622 - before you, 01:16:31.202 --> 01:16:37.190 - I don't know if you've seen the meme about the guy that gets mad about his bank and calls to annoy them 01:16:37.190 --> 01:16:42.948 - until they go and fix the ATM. And he screams at them, I have more fish and tape and willpower than 01:16:42.948 --> 01:16:49.167 - your entire organization. These people have more fish and tape and willpower than your entire organization. 01:16:49.167 --> 01:16:55.040 - So anything, if they had to file for a nonprofit, if they had to work together with some of the folks 01:16:55.040 --> 01:17:00.798 - that have spoken with us today, there is an incredible amount of energy to help solve this problem. 01:17:01.314 --> 01:17:08.208 - And if dollars are the concern, I mean, Help Ourselves Mutual Aid for which many of these folks work 01:17:08.208 --> 01:17:15.035 - is on a shoestring budget that is entirely donated by the people within it. And again, they are the 01:17:15.035 --> 01:17:21.929 - most helpful organization that I've personally experienced in the city. So I think maybe if we just, 01:17:21.929 --> 01:17:27.390 - maybe slightly fewer administrators, maybe slightly less writing, I don't know. 01:17:27.554 --> 01:17:34.654 - where the bulk of people's costs are without looking at their annual budgets. But it does seem like 01:17:34.654 --> 01:17:41.968 - maybe some folks here have some good input there. And once again, you said earlier, why not just leave 01:17:41.968 --> 01:17:49.424 - the space alone? Let the people doing this work continue. And once again, I laid out all of your reasons 01:17:49.424 --> 01:17:56.382 - that you have given for wanting to clear this. And it doesn't seem like any of that is backed up. 01:17:56.770 --> 01:18:03.744 - Why are you still trying to clear this? No, I also get that policy is changeable and fluid, and that 01:18:03.744 --> 01:18:11.064 - we're here to change the policy, because clearly the policy has failed. That's why we're here, is because 01:18:11.064 --> 01:18:18.176 - policy has just failed. And so I agree. The policy is contrived. So why don't we switch it? And I know 01:18:18.176 --> 01:18:25.150 - that's not a today meeting, because that is a... Jeff has opinions over there sitting in the corner. 01:18:31.074 --> 01:18:36.411 - something that we can work in to make sure that people aren't slipping through the cracks. I mean, your 01:18:36.411 --> 01:18:41.697 - policy is based around a housed society. It's based around the opinions of people who have always been 01:18:41.697 --> 01:18:46.932 - housed. And one lived experience coordinator, as Ash said, will never suffice for the type of details 01:18:46.932 --> 01:18:52.116 - that you need to be writing into here. So when we're talking about conversations about homelessness, 01:18:52.116 --> 01:18:57.299 - I don't mean just scrap head home and restart. Like Ash said, there's good points. I'm talking about 01:18:57.299 --> 01:18:59.198 - go into health code. Go into zoning. 01:18:59.426 --> 01:19:06.594 - go into county property and talk about like, where has this failed? Because it's not just the orgs that 01:19:06.594 --> 01:19:13.556 - are failing, it's your policy. And that is something that you can change. I was pointing at, I think 01:19:13.556 --> 01:19:20.517 - I want to expel some of my thoughts. And I take this the right way. I'm trying to help organize this 01:19:20.517 --> 01:19:28.030 - in a way that works with my mind, right? I hear what you said about change your policy, change these things. 01:19:28.898 --> 01:19:35.899 - the zoning policy, and I also heard that if we take this outside city limits, that causes other stresses 01:19:35.899 --> 01:19:42.834 - to the community. In my mind, we can't change the city's policies, but we can work with their policies. 01:19:42.834 --> 01:19:49.768 - We can't change a lot of the health code things because those come down from the state, but we can work 01:19:49.768 --> 01:19:53.502 - to make whatever comes out of those other conversations 01:19:53.890 --> 01:19:59.257 - getting it something that is sanitary is probably going to end up being more of a funding issue than 01:19:59.257 --> 01:20:04.572 - any other kind of issues. It's, you know, I've also heard a lot about this piece of property, and I 01:20:04.572 --> 01:20:09.992 - guess from where I'm sitting, this piece of property has become important because that's where people 01:20:09.992 --> 01:20:15.466 - are at, not necessarily because that's where if we were going to put people that they would want, they 01:20:15.466 --> 01:20:20.887 - would choose to be there, or we would choose, or the group supporting them think they would choose to 01:20:20.887 --> 01:20:21.790 - be there, right? 01:20:22.082 --> 01:20:29.538 - Is this the right piece of property if we're going to go through the process of working with the city, 01:20:29.538 --> 01:20:36.849 - trying to deal with those ordinances? If you're going to look at the health department and spend the 01:20:36.849 --> 01:20:44.377 - funding to meet those funding things, it seems to me the first question is, where? And then we can have 01:20:44.377 --> 01:20:51.326 - a whole conversation about, is it good to have one or is it good to have multiple smaller ones? 01:20:52.002 --> 01:20:59.681 - whole huge amount of questions that are in there. You know, I work for the county and, you know, I know 01:20:59.681 --> 01:21:07.065 - that the county commissioners are sympathetic, right? But they're also concerned because, you know, 01:21:07.065 --> 01:21:14.596 - part of our role as government is to follow rules. And we're not following rules here, right? I mean, 01:21:14.596 --> 01:21:21.758 - that's pretty clear. We can change some rules. We can't change some other rules, but I think the 01:21:22.050 --> 01:21:28.946 - In my mind, the bigger conversation is with everybody who has a stake locally. And then how do we make 01:21:28.946 --> 01:21:36.177 - the local decisions work within the state framework? It is already been laid out that leaving this property 01:21:36.177 --> 01:21:43.006 - alone for people to live there would be the best solution. Y'all are creating more problems by trying 01:21:43.006 --> 01:21:49.768 - to evict this by staying with the rules that clearly are not serving people. But we can't. Our hands 01:21:49.768 --> 01:21:51.710 - are also tied by state laws. 01:21:52.418 --> 01:21:59.672 - And so I think just because time is going on, I think we need to come up with resolutions about what 01:21:59.672 --> 01:22:07.284 - to do next. And I'm hearing calls for a meeting. We have worked with organizations that have successfully 01:22:07.284 --> 01:22:09.726 - opposed state policy before. Yes. 01:22:13.794 --> 01:22:18.992 - Oh, there's lots. I oppose state policy every year, as does the county. I mean, we're always up there 01:22:18.992 --> 01:22:24.140 - lobbying for and against things. So that's something we do. We just have to be very clear about what 01:22:24.140 --> 01:22:29.338 - policies need to be opposed. And to do that, we need a conversation with the city and with the county 01:22:29.338 --> 01:22:34.486 - council and with the city council and with the organizations and with you guys, because you have the 01:22:34.486 --> 01:22:39.786 - lived experience. And all of that needs to happen at another time when these organizations can be there 01:22:39.786 --> 01:22:42.334 - in person, because that's when these happen best. 01:22:43.170 --> 01:22:51.412 - I will say it would be incredibly, we talked about this in other meetings, it would be incredibly difficult 01:22:51.412 --> 01:22:59.044 - to get large portions of our camp present. Everyone in camp knew you guys were coming today and you 01:22:59.044 --> 01:23:06.675 - guys spoke to the people that wanted to speak to you. Just because we have had our necks stepped on 01:23:06.675 --> 01:23:13.086 - so many times by all these rules to which you guys are bound, there have been like, 01:23:13.570 --> 01:23:21.989 - homelessness liaison positions in local frameworks before. Trust was broken in every last one of them 01:23:21.989 --> 01:23:30.243 - in egregious ways. In fact, I was passing out flyers at all of the services yesterday trying to get 01:23:30.243 --> 01:23:38.497 - more people into the room. Thank you, Matt, for being the only person to show up. And the first one 01:23:38.497 --> 01:23:42.046 - I handed out to the very first woman I saw 01:23:42.146 --> 01:23:48.420 - Her response was, will it even matter if I show up to this? And that is the overall thought process. 01:23:48.420 --> 01:23:55.004 - People do not think that you guys are hearing us. Honestly, I don't think you guys are hearing us. Coming 01:23:55.004 --> 01:24:01.651 - to the meetings and trying this the polite way was not my idea. I think that we're going to get assurances 01:24:01.651 --> 01:24:08.049 - in this room, and they're going to hold for 30 or 90 days or whatever. And then we're going to get all 01:24:08.049 --> 01:24:10.782 - of our stuff chucked in the dumpster again. 01:24:11.202 --> 01:24:19.392 - trying the nice way is the first step, so that's where we are. And I very much hope to be proven wrong 01:24:19.392 --> 01:24:27.343 - in this situation. Well, I think one of the things that we've agreed to at least is to move forward 01:24:27.343 --> 01:24:35.453 - with some sort of written commitment. We can't write it now. I mean, we've got three minutes left. We 01:24:35.453 --> 01:24:37.918 - can't write it now, but we can 01:24:39.106 --> 01:24:46.036 - get that rolling. And it sounds like folks want a lot of time to look at it. So we couldn't get it done 01:24:46.036 --> 01:24:52.832 - before the end of the year because next week is our last meeting. And then the other option is to try 01:24:52.832 --> 01:24:59.696 - to move it forward more quickly and get it done before the end of the year. So I don't know if anybody 01:24:59.696 --> 01:25:06.426 - has any input on that. You'd have it would be heard at next week's meeting as an agenda item. That's 01:25:06.426 --> 01:25:08.158 - as quick as we can do it. 01:25:08.610 --> 01:25:19.857 - Otherwise, we're into next year, and it could be a very slow process. And I hate slow processing myself, 01:25:19.857 --> 01:25:30.996 - but. A foreign decision is made on that. Can we have the last one on Dean? Yeah, they've had their hand 01:25:30.996 --> 01:25:38.494 - up this entire time on and off. Hello, can you all hear me? Yeah. OK. 01:25:38.594 --> 01:25:45.382 - Hey, this is Jennifer Crosley, Monroe County Council Council President. I just wanted to say a couple 01:25:45.382 --> 01:25:52.237 - of things that I've been hearing throughout this conversation. First and foremost, I appreciate people 01:25:52.237 --> 01:25:59.358 - being able to have this conversation. I appreciate the activists and the folks that have lived experiences 01:25:59.358 --> 01:26:06.146 - who have taken their time out today to come and speak yet again on a near and dear pressing issue for 01:26:06.146 --> 01:26:06.878 - all of us. 01:26:07.202 --> 01:26:14.106 - a couple of things that I really wanted to address, and I hope that my assumptions are not true. But 01:26:14.106 --> 01:26:21.420 - from what I'm hearing, excuse me, a couple of things in this meeting is that we seem to be kind of passing 01:26:21.420 --> 01:26:28.255 - the buck as to who's responsible for what and why things aren't happening the way they are, because 01:26:28.255 --> 01:26:35.774 - this person didn't say this or this person didn't do that, or county council didn't do this. So I really hope 01:26:36.130 --> 01:26:43.925 - that we, I'm not hearing that correctly, because if so, we don't need to be throwing everybody underneath 01:26:43.925 --> 01:26:51.499 - the bus. That's the thing. The other thing that I wanted to say is, yeah, we all can play together and 01:26:51.499 --> 01:26:59.221 - work together, but commissioners, you all are the executive slash legislative body of county government. 01:26:59.221 --> 01:27:03.486 - And the checks and balances with us as county council is, 01:27:03.618 --> 01:27:09.703 - We are the fiscal body of the government. And so while I hear, you know, we can pass this on to council 01:27:09.703 --> 01:27:15.730 - and we can do all those things together and kind of moving the buck and the needle towards council and 01:27:15.730 --> 01:27:21.582 - kind of putting this responsibility on council, that's fine, up to a certain degree. But again, you 01:27:21.582 --> 01:27:27.433 - all have a decision-making process. And what I hear you all say, like, you know, we're in charge of 01:27:27.433 --> 01:27:31.646 - these types of things. We're in charge of the money. Yeah, that's true. 01:27:31.970 --> 01:27:40.038 - But we can also be overwritten the same. Just look at what happened in your meeting earlier with respect 01:27:40.038 --> 01:27:47.953 - to what we have put out with Seven Oaks. So yeah, we have the financial responsibility and that's what 01:27:47.953 --> 01:27:55.867 - we do. However, you all have to work well with us in the same and not trying to diminish the work that 01:27:55.867 --> 01:28:01.630 - we are doing. I do appreciate, I wish that we can have a conversation with 01:28:01.826 --> 01:28:08.361 - city council, the rest of county council, the mayor's office, you all as well, and those who haven't 01:28:08.361 --> 01:28:14.961 - lived experiences. And maybe we can come up with a solution to figure all this out together. The last 01:28:14.961 --> 01:28:21.495 - thing that I wanted to say is this all has something to do with the word housing. And again, housing 01:28:21.495 --> 01:28:28.354 - in Monroe County is a big old issue. I'm the only renter on county council. And we keep hearing everybody 01:28:28.354 --> 01:28:30.942 - today keep saying that there's an issue 01:28:31.170 --> 01:28:36.816 - with housing and the affordability and the issues that we all see with that. We can all agree that, 01:28:36.816 --> 01:28:42.801 - you know, we need different types of housing. However, in the county, it is up to the Planning Commission 01:28:42.801 --> 01:28:48.503 - to make sure this happens. And at the end of the day, it's also up to commissioners to approve these 01:28:48.503 --> 01:28:54.205 - different types of housing. So if we are really serious about those different types of things, we as 01:28:54.205 --> 01:28:59.964 - electeds need to take ownership and responsibilities, even when things don't go the way that we think 01:28:59.964 --> 01:29:01.150 - that they should go, 01:29:01.346 --> 01:29:07.105 - and admit that, move on, but passing the buck on and passing the blame on whomever or whatever, sit 01:29:07.105 --> 01:29:12.980 - down and have a conversation with them. If you're upset about how heading home got all this money and 01:29:12.980 --> 01:29:18.796 - they didn't have, or they didn't do what you think they should do, then sit them down and bring them 01:29:18.796 --> 01:29:24.843 - to a meeting. I would love to have them at the next meeting and they can have that type of conversation. 01:29:24.843 --> 01:29:29.278 - But again, I really hope as electeds that we really stop passing the buck on 01:29:29.378 --> 01:29:35.117 - that we're not pacifying these folks and saying all the things that they want to hear to their faces. 01:29:35.117 --> 01:29:40.743 - Yeah, we might say things that they might not necessarily agree with, but what's the common ground? 01:29:40.743 --> 01:29:46.426 - How can we move forward and how we can make this a solvable solution? Because I do think that it is, 01:29:46.426 --> 01:29:50.814 - but it's going to take us getting out of egos to make this happen. Thank you. 01:30:00.642 --> 01:30:08.145 - not ideal but we were trying to get this done as quickly as we could and our schedules are 01:30:08.145 --> 01:30:16.885 - limited unfortunately. But we do need to have further conversation and I think we can work on initiating. 01:30:16.885 --> 01:30:25.378 - It sounds like folks would rather have something sooner rather than later in terms of a policy written 01:30:25.378 --> 01:30:27.934 - up or would you prefer to have 01:30:28.866 --> 01:30:37.772 - but here's what we can do. We can get something written up and we can talk about it next week. And if 01:30:37.772 --> 01:30:46.678 - there's concerns or we can, we can postpone voting on it. So we could do kind of both. Okay. And then 01:30:46.678 --> 01:30:55.671 - moving forward, getting, getting something together with all, with city and county government together 01:30:55.671 --> 01:30:58.814 - to address core issues. So is that, 01:30:59.906 --> 01:31:11.518 - I've taken a lot of notes, so I've heard a lot of ideas. 01:31:35.298 --> 01:31:42.938 - We really do appreciate you all. Thank you. Thank you. I know it's hard for you to be here. Thank you. 01:31:42.938 --> 01:31:50.430 - And we really do appreciate everybody for their input. And we have a lot more conversations to have.