- I'm going to call this work session to order. And it is Thursday, February 12th. We have, well, let's
- start with the letter regarding properties, and then we'll move on to Gentry East, and then we'll move
- on to planning. OK. Yes.
- The Capital Improvement Board sent the Monroe County Commissioners a letter indicating that they would
- like to acquire, and I clarified the properties, but basically the remaining properties that we bought
- with innkeepers tax on that block of college, third, second, on both sides of the beeline trail.
- They had made a request asking what we were willing to give them a couple years ago, which included
- the properties on the west side of that beeline trail, which is part of their request. And we indicated
- at that time they didn't need to have any explanation. They're also asking for the properties further
- south. And I believe the explanation is they want to utilize that in order to entice a hotelier to come
- to the area, whether it's on that property or on different property in that area.
- And just to be clear that this whole proposal is in an effort to move further along toward getting a
- hotel developed to work with the Convention Center. But also that while this property is in our name
- as Monroe County, it really belongs to Convention and Visitors Commission because it is
- was purchased with innkeeper's tax. And the CBC and Tulish Copic and our management group had been managing
- the rental properties, retail, and apartments. And folks in those apartments have been provided with
- a similar comparable option from another local apartment
- And I think that's in the works. I'm not sure they've been provided yet, but we're definitely in those
- discussions. They're working toward that. Let's just say that. We're not kicking people out,
- in other words. But that building also has some structural issues that we wouldn't not want to keep
- people living there. So we're working on, well, Talisha Copic is working on getting something squared
- away for those folks. So are we relocating everyone in the properties or just people in that building?
- So these are all the buildings south of the city-owned buildings. I think we have residential leases.
- I think I would say we're looking to help the residential leases at this point. I think the commercial
- leases were not as active with that. Gotcha. And all the buildings have issues that we wouldn't want.
- The residential for sure. Yes.
- And my sister's closet is working on moving anyway. They're moving into that location on second. So
- it's a good time to get this done. And it's not like this is a surprise to anyone either. But we will
- need to pass a resolution here. I think what we need to do is the next step is to be
- enter conversation with the county council see where their thoughts are because these properties are
- worth over a thousand dollars so that we they would need to fix the terms and conditions of any transfer
- so we would need to just see where they're at and and have those kind of conversations can this be added
- to the executive sessions already scheduled for monday it would be the transfer properties okay great
- let's make sure we we we talk about that but they would have to approve this too
- I just want to make sure that that's clear to everyone. Yes. It's not something we're acting unilaterally.
- Yes. Okay. Um, so potentially we could get this on the council's agenda by the end of March, maybe a
- month from now when they're next. So that would be, that would be really useful. Okay. Great. Um, now
- commissioner Jones, I don't know.
- Commissioner Jones, do you have any questions? No, I don't. OK. What about you? Anything? No. And I
- think we have that way we can get them information on the status of the residential portion of the buildings
- and relocation. We'll have more information later. To be dealt with at that time. Yeah, for sure. OK.
- OK. Sounds good. All in aid of getting this convention center project
- moving along. Great. We don't want to displace anyone either, but those buildings are in such terrible
- shape from what we've found so far. Yeah. All right. Let's see. We also have Ms. Ridge, did you want
- to talk about the concerns that were expressed by Mr. Coyne? And then if you could talk through
- response to that. I know you've got Jackie and Ben here. I think Jackie's put together a work with Ben
- and myself and Justin in the legal department. So I don't want to speak for Jackie, but if she can present
- our responses. I do just I want to say that Ben and Jackie have spent and ever since we had a meeting
- with Penny Givens when she and the commissioners when Penny was a
- commissioner. So three years, four years ago, we had a meeting with the Gentry East HOA, Rita, I believe
- was in attendance in that meeting. And we have been working, I will say we but actually Ben and Jackie
- mainly have been working nonstop with that HOA. We have they have spent hours on end preparing documents,
- things that really we did not have to step up and do, but they have worked hand in hand with this HOA
- to try and get these roads accepted. We've recently been meeting with their consultant that they've
- hired, Kelly Abel, have had two or three meetings with him, assured him that if they do the things that
- we've discussed, we will, and we have made some compromises, that we will accept those roads.
- It just keeps coming back that the county will not keep their commitment. The county's going back on
- their words. County's making them rip up the roads. That is not the case. So I want to thank Jackie
- and her staff and Ben for all of the hours, extra hours that they have put in on this public subdivision
- that a developer has chose to walk away many years ago. And they have stepped up.
- to help make this work. Nobody else has stepped up to make this work and do their bids and work with
- the contractor. So to say that the county hasn't really done their part, I find that as a huge statement
- of error because they haven't been on our side. We could take anybody into our open gov software program
- that details every conversation
- every document is in there and how many years this has been going on and what the staff has committed
- to bringing these roads into our county system. So I just wanted to put that out there before Jackie
- and Ben can state kind of address the specific issues that's been addressed in Mr. Coyne's letter. Thank you.
- I also want to mention that we do have homeowners and subdivisions in the unfortunate situation where
- the developer has walked away. We have tried to update our county development ordinance to include an
- annual inflation adjustment rather than just a paper renewal. In this particular subdivision, I was
- surprised in working with Ben that the developer actually didn't communicate they were walking away
- until 2019, but they stopped
- The last recording of the subdivision was 2006. So it was clear that there was a long gap of time in
- which they could have made improvements. They could have finished this up. But unfortunately, it's where
- it is today. So I just put together some information with the help of Ben and Lisa and her team that
- just kind of identifies some of the things that we've done to date in the Gentry East neighborhood.
- We have put together three bid projects
- two were completed. The middle project was sort of our, like, here's everything that we think needs
- to be done. Here's how much we were able to get a bid back in the amount of $313,568. And that was just
- a non-starter for the homeowners because they realized splitting it however many ways still was not
- going to be a reasonable cost to get this work done, which is, I think, the point of Mr. Coyne's letter.
- But the first and the third bids we did do, and the most recent one was done by EMB Paving. And that
- focused on just the highest priority sidewalk issues. And that total was $56,634, which leaves us with
- a bond amount from the original developer in the amount of $9,168. So doing the math here, we still
- have a remainder of work of about
- 250,000, which is also identified in the letter.
- Something I wanted to point out, this was a PUD, a plan unit development approved originally by the
- city of Bloomington, and it was approved in 1986, constructed in phases and sections within phases.
- I've been impressed with Ahoy that they've been able to mostly follow along and get a hold of documents
- because there would be a cul-de-sac and then they would amend it two years later and do a through street.
- And so the map of what is accepted and what is not accepted now makes a little bit more sense with that
- general background. But mostly what we're talking about is sections five and six. There's a small portion
- of three and a small portion of four that are not yet accepted. But one, two, most of three, portion of four,
- have been accepted into the inventory. And I can share this information with Mr. Coyne, if appropriate,
- too, if that's OK. But we can talk about that as well. Do you have a map that we're not seeing on screen,
- maybe? I can share this information on screen, absolutely. OK, thank you. Because when you say sections
- 3, 4, 5, I don't understand that. It is a pretty large neighborhood. Oh, it is. It is.
- much for doing that. And this was a map that was assisted recently by our GIS team. So thank you, John
- Baten for this. But the black lines are here are the publicly maintained roadways. And then the brown
- dotted lines are the phases and sections. And then the red lines are what we're talking about as still
- being private today. So a portion of South Hill Court.
- East Beardsley, South Barnes, portion of that, South Bridwell Court, and a portion of East Donington.
- So these are the areas that are left that were not fully accepted into the inventory. The black lines
- above have been accepted to date and are in the inventory according to this map. OK. And then so with
- the 9,000 that's left on the original bond plus
- Another what 250 or so it will take to bring the roads up to county standards.
- The original bid that I mentioned that they didn't end up going through, I'm just taking like a 2022
- bid, subtracting a 2024 EMB bid and assuming. But yes, give or take, if you subtract the 9,000
- from the 250, you're looking at 240 something to finish all the improvements. Now, I will say later
- on, there were some images and documents brought up about work that was
- You know, not going to be accepted. You know, there was work that the county had completed that later
- was found to be deficient in one of the earlier iterations in talking with Ben that was.
- omitted in the latest iteration with their contractor. So we did determine that we would take that in
- as is no change. So I think the amount is likely to change. But of course, inflation materials cost.
- Right. And that's you're looking at a 2022 bid and a 2024 bid. Right. It's just a ballpark.
- It is a ballpark, a general ballpark. That's right. OK. OK, great.
- I can go through any of the map responses if you would like. If that would be helpful or image responses,
- I should say, or however you would like to. Do you have any specifics? Commissioner Jones, is there
- anything specifically you'd like to see? This is in response to Mr. Coyne's well articulated letter.
- So, so to say that the county had a set of standards
- And then we changed our standards, and as a result, things are no longer acceptable. That has been addressed.
- So what I would like to address there, and Ben and Lisa can chime in here, is that the main thing that
- we were trying to articulate is that ADA changes are not
- We're not allowed to use older ADA standards. If we accept a road today, we have to use ADA standards
- of today. Everything else, I think we've gone back to the original approved construction plans for each
- section and each phase and honored those. So we are not trying to make them meet today's payment depth
- sections. They would be able to do that. Some of the comments about wear and tear, I will say that
- If the county accepts a road today that's had significant wear and tear has a lot of repairs needed.
- Ben has some statistics on how many complaints we get from potholes in this area. You're talking about
- day one having a large cost to the county and
- to repair those that we wouldn't necessarily have the funds for because of the time of acceptance and
- it's by year that you get those funds. So that's just a comment generally, if we would have in the best
- case scenario, like the developer to have completed their obligations back when they got it recorded
- soon after, and then we would have had that time of money built up and the wear and tear would have been
- along the process, but we would have the money today that we don't have because we have never accepted
- it so. Thank you. What would you like to add. I would agree with what Jackie said and you know at least
- agrees. We're not making a meet today standards. We just don't want to take in a road that's already wore out.
- So yeah, thank you. And thank you again, all of you for working on this. I mean, it's a handful,
- it's really, it's a handful of residents, but it is their, it is their life. You know, and again, you
- all respect that and I can see that you all are doing everything you can to bring this into county inventory
- as soon as possible. Is there anything else you wanted to add Ms. Ridge or?
- So if Ben would want to address, I think he had worked out with Kelly. I think there was questions on
- what we were allowing, what we were not allowing for grinding, and what we had compromised, again, with
- the homeowners and articulated this with Kelly. So like I said, we worked with Kelly Abel once he got
- brought on board. So originally, when we look at something, we note that
- this needs to be replaced, remove replace it. But that gives them an option to give us some ideas to
- consider for a fix. So looking at the curb and gutter and Paul was in one of the meetings with us where
- we said, okay, it's satisfactory. You can saw cut this and ground it. You don't need to cut it out unless
- there's, you know, a deviation.
- Then you know we want that address, but for a lot of it is just saw cut right grout. That's going to
- save a ton of money. But that part of it was never bid out, so I don't know what a cost of that would
- be, but I imagine it being significant. So. For the areas in red. That's there's we only have that ballpark.
- Right now, but.
- but is that something that the entirety of the homeowners Association would be responsible for. Oh yeah,
- there is in red is what we're working with with them. The everything else is already accepted into our
- inventory. Okay. So there's still quite a bit that needs to be done and the question is do do all of
- the residents in Monroe County pick up pick up.
- what a developer didn't do, even though he promised to do it. And again, this was a city development,
- so things were a little different. And it's much older than most people realize in terms of when this
- was platted and developed. Not that the houses are old, because some of them are quite new. It's an
- interesting area, a beautiful area. But I really appreciate.
- the way that you all have really respected the residents who live there. And the concern we have as
- County Commissioners, I would say, and correct me if I'm wrong, my colleagues, is that does the entire,
- do all the residents of Monroe County now have to pay for what a developer didn't do?
- You know, for the record, I will note that this is why we have inflation-based bonds now. This is why
- we ask developers to do X, Y, and Z. This is why we have the system we have is because not all developers
- do what they're supposed to do. And we want to protect the homeowners who buy into these developments,
- but at some point,
- I don't know how much the county can absorb in terms of the cost. And that's a huge question. And I
- guess that's a council question, maybe. But that's a lot of money, right? That's a lot of money. And
- so I don't know if that's the next, where are we at in terms of next steps? What do we think is going
- to happen or what should happen?
- I understand. I'll let Jackie speak on it more. But my understanding is the remaining funds was going
- to be given to the HOA, and then they were going to get their funds, however, and make it happen. OK.
- Yeah, so we've been working with the legal department and stated, you know, this is the second bid that
- we've done. It's just we don't have enough, really. No one's going to submit a bid for $9,000,
- to be honest. So we talked to the legal department about creating an MOU with the HOA to say this is
- what these funds have to be used for, have them sign the appropriate documents, take on a bit of the
- ownership of finishing it up and getting it done so we don't, you know, we can't have them spend that
- money on like
- So we're hoping that they can pull the funds that they've already hopefully been collecting over the years.
- and then split that and be able to do the minimum work necessary that the Highway Department has asked
- of. So even as Ben and Lisa mentioned that 250 number, we've been trying to work with them on the ground
- each section. I know they have questions and it's an extremely difficult job too. I will say that Ben
- has gone out more than once because you have to stripe and then of course if you paint it rains and
- then fades and you can't see it anymore. So it's an extremely difficult thing to do to look at the approved
- construction
- and identify the omissions. And I get that people originally may say, like, well, you're holding us
- to today's standards. It's like, well, this is clearly a problem. You know, the sidewalk differences,
- someone's going to trip. So we have to address it. But I also understand that this may have been correct
- the day it was constructed. But they're going to look at us the day it was accepted, not the day it
- was constructed. Yeah, especially. OK.
- Got it. OK. So the homeowners association has to figure out a way to potentially maybe borrow funds
- in order to finish these streets out. And they need to organize themselves. We can't do that for them.
- And it's my understanding dealing with Rita. Rita is very familiar with this. And it's been very transparent
- and good communication with Rita that is the treasurer for the HOA. I think that's why they've committed
- to hiring Kelly to help them through this process and the bid process. And they have assistance now
- too. So I think they're doing their part. They're on their way. Yeah. We don't need to worry the council.
- We don't need to get involved. OK, good. OK, good.
- Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you all again. Um. As rich Mr Heirs is natural and thank you
- all for putting the time into this, and it started long before the letter of last week. But it's important.
- Um and I know that this is something that came up, especially. Um with the, you know, snow
- This is part of that. This is why your road is still a private room. And this is what the responsibility
- of the HOA is. So excellent work all around. So we're almost there. We're going to get there. They're
- going to get there. And your guidance to them has been incredible. Yeah. So this map is something we
- looked at in our ordinance review committee meeting this week, two weeks ago. No, last month. No, it
- was the admin meeting anyway.
- I digress. It was one of those meetings we're planning. Anyway, Dr. Baten, our GIS person, has put together
- this great map. And I don't know if it's available yet to the public. We're working on that this week.
- OK, good. So it'll be available to the public this week. Press release announcement. But what it does
- is it clearly identifies private roads versus county
- roads versus city or town roads. And I asked if they would add state roads in there because people don't
- really know that bypass isn't city, it's state, or 45, 46. So this is just a little guidance map for
- folks. And if you're buying property or if you're curious about where you are as to who does your snow
- plowing and road maintenance,
- this will provide an answer regarding who to call. And there are some interesting bits in here because
- we do have agreements with the town and the city regarding plowing because at some point it's like,
- why am I lifting the blade over here when you're going to have to lift your blade over there? And they
- strike these great agreements that benefit everybody for plowing, for example. And somehow we're going to try to
- incorporate that into this, which is the tough part. But it's OK. It's not that much. It's not a lot
- of terrain, but it's enough that it may be useful to have that on here. So excellent work all around.
- Can I ask a couple of questions? I just have a concern, too, that this does not happen again. And I
- had a couple of questions about if we do certain things to hold developers accountable, like the developer
- that walked out. I had no idea that he walked out in 2019. Wow. Do we sunset approvals for developers
- that don't finish within a certain period of time or that don't
- substantially complete developments within a certain period of time? So the state legislature has required
- all jurisdictions in Indiana to accept a bond in return for incomplete improvements. Once we accept
- that bond, we allow them to create those lots within that phase. So we can't retaliate by holding, I
- mean we can
- We have tried before to say we won't be able to issue you a permit for this individual lot until you
- come up to certain standards. We've been individually challenged on that multiple times because they'll
- say, well, we do have a bond. And so the 10% inflation really helps us to be able to say, hey, get an
- engineer to certify that your estimate is still accurate or 10% per year.
- It's made a huge difference so far, and people are now coming to the table and saying, I don't want
- to pay this 10%. How can I get done as soon as possible? And that's what we need. Yeah. That's an incentive.
- And that's been the process of going back. And we're still seeing a lot of this in Plan Commission meetings
- of getting some of these things updated and adjusted and whatnot. So it's a long process, but it's so
- important.
- going forward, it'll be much easier. Yes, yes, absolutely. Can we re-inspect or do we re-inspect every
- three to five years or every X number of years as the developments age to sort of update the standards
- so it doesn't become like a cataclysmic avalanche of information?
- That's a great question. So what we're doing right now is we're taking the list that we have of active
- subdivisions and trying to do that. I would say that though there are many subdivisions, especially
- like bordering the city county where we had a jurisdictional agreement where we're still finding the
- city never gave us a bond. And so it kind of falls off our radar and then it's been private all along,
- but a new person buys in. So I would say that one of the key things that we're trying to work on, I
- know Ben is trying to do,
- is close out driveway permits. So you would look at as the lot is complete, they get their certificate
- of occupancy, they sell the home, developers out, builders out, but yet we might have a problem. We're
- trying to get them to more timely ask for that final inspection, but again, disincentivize. Sometimes
- if you have a developer that
- doesn't believe that their work will pass the code. So it's just, it's a matter of trying to communicate
- as much as we can. Um, we have the staff that we have. We, this could be a full time job for somebody
- to enforce on developers or builders to say, Hey,
- You know you're supposed to put in a street tree here in a sidewalk here let's just do that now before
- you pass it to the homeowner because once you get the homeowner involved. Now they're like I don't want
- a tree right there I don't want to say walk actually that's part of the development so you get another
- person in another opinion and it just.
- It makes it challenging. So I can definitely appreciate that. And my final question is, is there a way
- or do we require a developer to put money in escrow so that if they don't finish the work within x number
- of years, they lose that money? So for example, is it possible to say, hey, if this goes beyond 20-some
- years, you have to put this large sum of money in escrow to update the neighborhood?
- If you finish the neighborhood within 20 years, you get that money back. But if not, then you lose that
- $250,000. Sorry, that $250,000 goes towards putting in all of these enhancements to now update the neighborhood.
- What we're trying to do is like a cashier's check or a letter of credit and the amount it would take
- to finish the improvements. I would say we haven't talked about like an additional escrow that could
- be like kind of a recharge of their HOA fees had they finished earlier, because I do think, you know,
- there's a subdivision that I can think of right offhand where the developer said, well, we don't need
- to collect HOA funds because I'm maintaining them right now and I will get them up to speed.
- if when they get it accepted and then three trees die on the first year in the common areas, there's
- no money in that HOA because they haven't yet had that time to start pulling those funds. So I do think
- about that a lot in HOAs. Ben and I were talking about how much responsibility it is to run an HOA,
- how technically savvy you have to be. I know our stormwater program is putting together educational
- materials.
- It's not a perfect system, and it's just something that is going to keep coming up. Yeah. It's almost
- like you need that leg every, not only once the entire development is complete, but as you finish phases,
- you need that one or two year post-phase leg, as trees die, as things happen, so that they go back and
- fix the stuff that is wrong as the phases close out, as the trees die, et cetera.
- Yeah, much less when the name print closes. And HOAs have been really motivated. A lot of them do contact
- us, and they're on top of things. So they won't get to things quicker than a developer would. So I'm
- not saying the transition is the problem. It's just keeping up with everything and having the money
- to do the work that needs to get done. And we don't really regulate HOAs, and that's something that's
- been raised in various ways in the legislature, mostly having to do with roadways and speed limits.
- But it's a real concern because it impacts every driver who happens to be on that private road, if it's
- intended to be private. It impacts everybody, and especially regarding retention ponds. Because if that
- drainage isn't maintained, I mean, we, the stormwater board, had to pay for a new dam and field stone
- because it protects
- the people who live around Fieldstone and in Fieldstone. So what happens in these private developments
- really impacts everyone in the community in some way. And people don't really see that. They go, well,
- we can build this a lot cheaper if we don't go to county standards and if we don't have, you know, and
- we'll just do an HOA and we'll take care of all this ourselves. We'll take care of the garbage. We'll
- take care of the streets. We'll do all of this on our own, which sounds great. And then they say, well,
- great, we can pass that on to the residents. And it doesn't always get passed on the residents the savings,
- but that makes housing less affordable to have a high HOA fee. And,
- And it needs to be part of that discussion about quote unquote, affordable housing. Because if you can
- find a house for $200,000, new built, you might have an HOA fee that's $200, $300 a month. That adds
- up. That's an expense a lot of people don't account for when they're buying a home.
- I have real concerns about all of that. But yeah. And Mr. Coyne, did you want to say anything to all
- this or ask any additional questions? This is a long response to one letter, isn't it? But really, it
- ties into everything we do. Yeah. It's awesome that you responded. We're going to have a parade for
- you next week. So we'll work on it. I do have some responses. First of all, to address Ms. Rich, at
- no time in my letter did I question Ben, Jackie, you, or anyone else, and the time and effort you put in.
- I think you've done it all. You've done a great job. You work with the HOA. I did not challenge that.
- To the contrary, I said, I believe, I am confident that county staff have been doing their best to manage
- priorities, protect limited resources, and find other funding sources. So I didn't challenge that. So
- I don't know where you got that, but that was not the intent of my letter. Secondly, if I understand
- Ben what you said today,
- We can grind sidewalks. No, so grinding is just. Can you go to the mic? Sorry. So so dry grinding of
- sidewalks is just a temporary fix. So the city and the county both do this to mitigate a hazard immediately.
- You know, because the funding is not there, but then it's, you know, recorded that hey,
- we need to get some funding saved here to get this replaced. So it's just a temporary thing. When you
- grind away from the concrete off of the sidewalk, it actually weakens that because you're losing the
- thickness. And you're already dealing with like a four inch thickness and then you're taking a half
- inch to an inch off, you're just losing it more. So it's more of just like a quick fix for immediate
- safety hazard. But we do note that
- we need to get back there to replace that. Like sooner rather than later once the funds are there. But
- you did work with Kelly on another option? That was on curb and gutter. Okay. Yeah. What do you have?
- It's your world. I'm living in it.
- Yeah. Yeah, so then and I and I explained that earlier is is we we talked with Kelly. We actually before
- Kelly got involved Paul and I met with Rita and I there's so many people involved over the years. There
- was 2 other people and we we said that we would allow saw cutting of the joint, you know where it's cracked.
- and grout that back in. But if there was like a deviation where the curb was raised up a little higher,
- then that section would have to be replaced. And that hasn't been re-bid? No, we've not done any. So
- from the original bid back in 22, 23, the only bid we did was for the sidewalks in phase 6 that were
- completed by ENB.
- That's the last bid we did. And like I said, we concentrated on the extreme worst of it to get that
- liability taken away from you guys. Okay. So did we bid using that new repair or repair go
- down significantly? Yes, I believe it would. Yeah, significantly. And if we were to grind the sidewalks
- as a temporary measure, it would also go down?
- Well, I mean, you're still going to be spending that to replace the sidewalk. So, yeah, I mean.
- Thank you. You're doing great. The point there is, I think what you need to understand when you say
- to an HOA raise $250,000, that is not an easy thing. That comes through special assessment.
- That requires a long process. It's difficult. It's very hard. They can't borrow money. That's not how
- that works. So anything that reduces the cost is really important. For example, if we were allowed to
- grind and then budget several years out like the county would, like they did in one through four,
- you know, you ground those down. Okay. Somewhere you're going to come back and do something else, presumably.
- Well, why can't we do that?
- Why can't we spend less money now, work on a long range budget without a special assessment of a thousand
- or whatever it might be for a better, there are 200 families in this subdivision. Okay, there's a lot
- of, not just the people in five and six, it impacts everybody. So that's one of the points I have. Okay,
- there's that. Thank you, Ben. So,
- Again, I want to point out what Miss Reed said. I don't question Ben and Jackie. They've been
- very professional. Lisa has. My comments were more based of your statements. It was before the letter
- of stating that in public record that we just were changing everything. We changed our specs and we're
- making you change everything or the HOA. That's not what that was not what we were doing. And I don't
- think that Jackie and Ben were getting the
- Maybe even the praise that they deserve on the hours that they have spent on something private, something
- completely private. And it's a developer that's walked away. Why doesn't anyone hold that person accountable?
- Okay. First of all, I acknowledge the time. I actually, I praised them for that. I don't have a problem
- with that. That isn't my issue.
- If you read the letter, you know, I was talking about before the letter when you stood up here at the
- podium, what was said. So my comments today were addressing what you said a week or two ago that the
- county highway was changing everything and making us go to new specs and, and the roads and we have
- new road specs. What we're making you to be compliant with is ADA and we don't have a choice in that.
- Well, let me point out one of the main points of my letter, if I may.
- You have a subdivision ordinance. Why do you have it? You have it to protect me. That subdivision ordinance
- has a very unusual stringent provision in it that it provides for bond. So at the time I buy my lot,
- you have inspected whatever you've inspected. The engineers were very good engineers. I presume they
- gave you all the specs that you required and you set a bond.
- Okay, what did you set it for? What was the point if it wasn't to protect me? So now you come back and
- you say, well, here are all these things, the ADA, as Ms. Jelen said. So now you have new ADA requirements.
- Okay, fine. But where's the bond? Where was the county here? What were you doing? Not you specifically,
- but the county government. And I can answer that. And it's a good question. We didn't used to collect that
- inflationary fee on the bond. And this project has been going on a very long time, originated in the
- city. There are a lot of things that have happened that have made that closing the gap difficult or
- impossible for the county. And what we've done in its stead is dedicate staff hours and sweat equity
- into trying to help
- bring everything together as best as possible. So yes, that's something that we recognize is a failure
- of the past. That is a failure. But we no longer operate that way because of instances like this. And
- so when we get developers in here complaining because we have the inflation adjustment on a bond,
- This is one of the examples we can point to as to why we do this. Thank you for that. And I do appreciate
- that. I think that's it is what it is. It certainly will help. We were not built for this. Yeah. But
- all I'm trying to say is we were put in this position because of that failure. OK, that's what I'm saying.
- The county needs to own up to some of that. I think one start is to compromise on the repairs like Ben's
- talking about.
- We don't know what that means. It could be significantly less than the 250 you're looking at now. Yeah.
- Well, and that's a technical discussion that you all need to have. But I would say that the biggest
- failure comes out of the developer. That is who really failed everyone. They failed to plan. They failed
- to follow through. They made their money and they ran. And that can happen.
- But the fact is now we are better equipped going forward to protect home buyers in these developments
- in a way that we weren't at that time. And so we're playing catch up with a number of developments across
- the county where this has happened. I accept and agree that I appreciate that. But what I'm trying to
- get you to understand what I'm saying in my letter is that was your responsibility.
- Okay. It was the developer's responsibility to fulfill their promises. And that's what the bond was
- for. Okay. You didn't have an adequate bond. Let's get right down to it. And that's the bottom line
- problem. There's no money out there. So what you're doing is you're saying, County didn't have an adequate
- bond, homeowners, you pay up.
- We had that ordinance to avoid that very problem. That's what I'm saying. I get it. I get it. I hear
- what you're saying because now you are as one resident of this homeowners association having to fix
- what that developer didn't fix. But my question then is, should it happen that way or should the entirety
- of Monroe County, all of the residents pay?
- to bring this up to speed, because ADA is something we can't mess with. I mean, it is what it is. We
- don't set it. It's set. So I think we're down to those as our only two choices here, either the entirety
- of the county pay for it, and you can ask the council. I think if you want to ask the council that question,
- please do, because that's the only other
- I don't know if there's a group who can pay for this. Well, I have two responses to that. One, I paid
- my taxes. We all do. I did. All right? All these years, 20 years, I paid them. Okay? As we learned on
- the 29th, you could take general funds and pay for road to street maintenance. You are not restricted.
- You could do that. Over the last 20 years, you could have been doing that.
- part of this is a county responsibility, is what I'm trying to say. Yes, you should take county tax
- funds and help these people out. There's nothing wrong with that. That's what we pay our taxes for.
- So I would ask you to take that request to the county council. And I think you should, because I think
- it's a bigger philosophical question. And I think my concern would be, we talked about that in terms of
- the snowpocalypse and the using emergency management money that's sitting in rainy day. This isn't an
- emergency. This is a lack of planning, a lack of follow through by a developer that has impacted you
- negatively. And we're better now because of what we've learned from these kinds of experiences. But
- the question is, how do we go back and fix that? And my concern would be, and I'm just going to throw
- this out there just so you
- because you are such a thoughtful person, and I so appreciate you, that it would disincentivize developers
- from finishing any development in the future if we continue to step in. And I'm not sure how county
- residents would feel. Do we set a cap at how much we pay per year for this? But I think this is a great
- question for the county council
- who would have to allocate money specifically to finish what developers have stopped doing. And again,
- we're better prepared for the future, but we need to get things fixed now from the past. Precisely.
- And what I'm saying is, had the bond been in effect and enforced, we would not be here. I believe the
- county bears responsibility for that.
- Moving forward, the solution I proposed is a compromise. I agree. You can't go do everything. I'm not
- asking you to do that. I'm saying acknowledge the county's role in this. Okay, that's all I'm asking.
- And let's compromise it. You could take sections five and six into the inventory tomorrow. I put this
- in my letter. It would cost you nothing. You could grind, you could patch.
- I see where we go with the $56,000. What's your problem, Ms. Purdy? Oh, nothing. You're shaking your
- head. If you have a problem, you could just tell me. I'm not actually paying attention to you. I'm looking
- at my computer. Sorry. OK. So I apologize. I hear that. I am not going to say that the county did anything
- wrong here because. I get that. And it's just, it's not a matter of pride, sir. It's a matter of.
- We did what we did based on the tools we had at that time. And having spent that bond, because it took
- so bloody long for this thing to get built, that bond lost its value. We did what we were supposed to
- do. The developer did not do what they were supposed to do in a timely manner. And you all are suffering
- as a result. And I acknowledge that. You have been harmed. We didn't harm you. Your developer did.
- And we're trying to help and we have gone above and beyond to help. And as we do for residents all across
- this county, this is just, we're not doing this because we appreciate Mr. Coyne and we do appreciate
- Mr. Coyne. This is the kind of thing our staff does everywhere all the time. They take on these individual
- instances and try to find the best way to fix it. And they do their best. And I so appreciate you. And
- I would ask that you please,
- You might want to start with a note to a council member and just say, hey, here's what's going on. And
- I'm sure that Ms. Ridge, Mr. Ayers, Ms. Nestor-Gellin can help you present this to the council, this
- information to the council, not at a council meeting, but I mean, real letter or an email. So if you
- need their assistance with understanding what's left, what has to be done, what the costs are,
- It sounds like they're on the pathway to getting this fixed and addressed hopefully before the next
- snowpocalypse. And I appreciate you. Yeah, thanks for your time. I appreciate you working through this.
- Thank you. We'll just have to agree to disagree on some of the fundamentals here. That's okay. If we
- could get the cost down and allow us to behave the way the county would behave.
- That would go a long way to getting this done. It is not an easy thing for these people to do. Okay.
- Help us out on that end. You're doing a great job on the other part. And again, Ms. Reggie, I don't
- question that. If you find I was, that's not what I was trying to convey. I appreciate what they're
- doing and yours, your efforts. Thank you. Let's get going. Thank you. Thank you, sir. I appreciate that.
- All right.
- That was a really good discussion. And I think people may question why we spent so much time on one
- particular set of streets, but this is representative of the work the county does and the detail that's
- involved in making sure. And again, big thanks to our highway and planning staff for getting this together.
- And anything else that you all wanted to add? Mr. Ayers, Ms. Nestergellen.
- I'll just add that I'll reach out to Kelly today and see if he's got an update. I know he's working
- with some contractors, so he'll probably have kind of an estimate of what the curb and gutter will be.
- Perfect. Great. Thank you. And just for folks who don't know, when they talk about sidewalk grinding,
- it's when you have a heaved sidewalk, they will actually grind down the part that's heaved. But the
- problem is then you've got the next piece is going to heave.
- very soon after because now you've got a thin sidewalk and it won't last. It's a good temporary fix
- if you're facing a trip hazard, but it's never a permanent fix. So did I say that right? Okay. All right.
- Did you want to add anything else, Ms. Ridge? All right, good. Anything else from anyone? I think we
- have 30 to 40 neighborhoods that are currently in some stage of transition. So is that right?
- or some number like that, that came out during snowpocalypse? Yes, we have about 40 that have the bonds
- on file that we're trying to get updated. Yeah, and I would imagine some are more egregious than others.
- Some have a longer time from when they recorded to when they posted, and the inflation is more.
- the housing bill. Yes and you know, to your point about the housing bill that's currently in the legislature.
- I do have, you know opposition to that bill because I'm very worried that these costs are not going
- to get passed along to those buying homes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very good. Thank you. Commissioner Jones.
- Did you want to add anything?
- We have one more item, and that is ordinance 2026-02, a six acre rezone in Van Buren Township. Mr. Myers
- has been very patiently waiting for us. Thank you. Thank you. I thought I was the only one on the agenda.
- No. See? This is what happens. All right. Well, this one should be pretty quick.
- This is a rezone request going from limited business to agricultural residential. Let me share my screen
- so you can see the report packet. This is located at 7353 West Eller Road. It's in Van Buren Township,
- Section 22. The comprehensive plan designates it as Monroe County urbanizing area, rural transition,
- and it is also unplatted.
- All right, so I will start off with saying that the planning commission heard this in December and they
- voted eight to zero to forward this with a positive recommendation and no conditions of approval. So
- the request is to rezone six acres located in Van Buren Township section 2022 from limited business
- to agricultural residential 2.5. The goal of the rezone is to establish the zoning compatibility with
- the adjacent parcel to the west, which is also owned by the petitioner. Deed records indicate that both
- parcels are one lot of record, totaling 20 acres, and both parcels appear separate due to a township
- section line that bisects the two. The western parcel contains 14 acres in section 21, while the eastern
- parcel contains six acres in section 22. So moving from the limited business zone to the agricultural
- residential zone will allow the commercial structures that are currently on the property in the eastern
- parcel to be converted to an agricultural use.
- The petitioner has stated an interest in establishing new dwelling on the six acre parcel, which will
- be required to meet the CDO's requirements for a detached accessory dwelling unit and, or possibly a
- subdivision if they want to pursue that. So I have the definitions for the limited business zone, the
- agricultural residential 2.5 zone here. Then here we have the location map. The business that was on
- the property was Reese, Sam Reese Trucking Incorporated.
- They have since ceased business operations and have dissolved the business entity. That is why they
- are seeking to bring this property into the agricultural residential district so that they can match
- with the rest of their property that's adjacent to them to the West and continue on with doing some
- agricultural activities on the property as well as ultimately residential. Here's the zoning here.
- Parcel is outlined in red. The other pink parcel here that you see is actually railroad. So that's not
- part of this rezoned petition. Here we have the site conditions map. You can see there's really no slopes
- greater than 25% on the property. And there's a lot of land that is still currently used as agricultural
- purposes. The commercial buildings that will be converted to agricultural use buildings are located
- in the north
- east section of the property. And there's no DNR floodplain, and there are no known CARS features on
- the property either. All right, so Highway Department didn't have any comments regarding the rezone
- petition, and Stormwater didn't have any comments regarding the rezone either, but stated that future
- permits may be necessary depending on the development. I included some details about the comprehensive
- plans designation for the district here.
- in the packet for your review. There's also the findings and facts section that staff prepares for the
- rezone. We have here the petitioner's letter stating their request, gave a little bit of background
- of what their business operated as, what kind of services that they provided. They actually provided
- a service for the U.S. Postal Service by hauling mail with their trucking services.
- So you can review that. Come back to it if you have any questions. Here's some site photos. These are
- the existing structures on the property coming right off of Eller Road here. They're built right up
- to the road, as you can see. And I think that concludes about everything. This picture here shows the
- existing residents on the property up to the west on that larger tract of land in Section 21 that I
- mentioned earlier.
- and then just some pictures here of just the property itself. Get an idea of what it looks like now.
- And then here is the proof of business closure from the State of Indiana Office of the Secretary of
- State certifying its dissolution. And then finally, in the last couple of exhibits, I give a rundown
- of what was permitted in the LB zone, or what is permitted in the LB zone, excuse me, and then what
- is permitted in the agricultural residential zone as well, just for reference.
- That concludes my presentation. All right. Questions? This is an excellent presentation. It's all very
- straightforward. Thank you. Commissioner Jones, do you have any questions for Mr. Myers? Not at this
- time. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. So if they do want to build, as you mentioned at the outset, if they
- do want to build a second residence on this property, it would have to either
- they can comply with a detached accessory dwelling unit. 1000 square feet or they can go in for a division
- of the property and divide the property to do that. Okay. Excellent. Now, it's it's it's very clean.
- It makes a lot of sense. It makes more sense as ag than it does as limited business actually. So, it's
- All right. Good. When do we want to hear this? Do we want to hear this on the 26th? That works for me.
- Does that work for you? OK. Commissioner Jones, does that work? Yep. Great. Let's do this February 26,
- which is our next meeting. Thank you, sir, for waiting. Your patience is always appreciated and honored.
- Thank you. Of course. Thank you.
- Thank you. Thanks. All right. Anything else for good of the order for our work session? If we. Oh, again,
- just we have the best staff. I know we do. Everybody explains very complicated concepts and answers.
- You know, what I feel sometimes are maybe duplicative or silly questions on my part because I this is,
- you know, I haven't been here that long yet. So thank you so very much for your patience and just dedication.
- Appreciate appreciate everybody.
- Thank you. So anything else, staff? Anything else? Angie, Jeff, anything else? Good. All right.
- With that, we are adjourned.