- So I'm going to call to order this work session for the Monroe County Board of Commissioners.
- It's May 21st. All three commissioners here and present in the NatU Hill Room. Mr. Schilling, Mr. LeRoux
- from our building department. I guess you should just take all three together because it seems like
- they are all connected. All right, I'll start.
- We have three ordinances, Dave Schelling from the legal department. We have three ordinances relating
- to our building department that we're presenting, and we'll be asking you to consider it at the next
- regular meeting. The first one is amendments to chapter 430, and that's our building code. That's the
- code where we adopt all the state codes by reference and so forth. And so the legislature has been
- tinkering around with the building enabling legislation and has come up with a new chapter 36.7 2.5
- that relates to class two buildings. And it says if you're gonna issue permits for class two buildings,
- which you have to do, you have to follow this procedure. So we've made changes to our ordinance
- to incorporate the
- changes that have statutorily been made to the class two building procedures. And we've incorporated
- some definitions that are included in that chapter and just sort of rejiggered the ordinance to match
- what actually happens in practice. And that's, I don't know, Bobbi, do you have anything else to add
- to that? All right, class two refers to
- family homes and town thank you um you're talking about the very first uh ordinance on the list correct
- well i'm talking about the the one the amendments to chapter 430 so the first sentence of each document
- will tell you what's being amended yeah let me go back
- Monroe County building code right 430-1 okay so this matches state code as it exists now yes which might
- not be how it exists within a few months yeah that's true too
- Just so you all are aware, they're already talking about making changes. They're fairly cumbersome
- administrative procedure. Talking with folks right now about trying to get that part of it fixed. It
- requires us to monitor applications for three days for
- assumption the app proper applications and letters if we don't get a reason they're already working
- on it and on some additional additional well why do we have to monitor the applications
- They want to make sure that permits are issued very quickly. And so they have a situation where you
- have to alert them through an email that the application they've submitted is complete, and then they
- have so much response time and so forth. And typically, Bobby and his department is able to actually
- issue the permit before these provisions even run out.
- Is there any purpose? Like, is there any penalty if it's not? So this is the question I've been trying
- to get an answer to. I understand that they want the three-day time period if the permit application
- is incomplete. That makes sense to me, but to tell people it's proper doesn't. Yes, there can be penalties.
- funding permit fees if time frames aren't met. Gotcha. For the issuance of a permit. They said our plan
- for class two structures, and we've been able to do this for decades, our plan is just to get our building
- portion, building permit portion done before
- Notifying them that they have an incomplete application. So what I'm working to, I totally understand.
- If you make an application and it's incomplete, you shouldn't just sit there and folks not be told.
- We're all on board with that. I just don't understand the reasoning for having to tell them it's complete.
- complete and let us move on. Right now our front office has to monitor these things. There are letters
- to send out if we don't have. And once the electronic communication or is it. The actual legislation
- allows seven days to complete
- And none of this impacts at all the agreement we have with the city of Bloomington. That's all woven
- in here. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Their process is the same. They're just where we used to collect everything
- and do all of the running around for everybody. And that requires each step to be done.
- the individual departments. That's what seems like it would take longer. Yes. It does. And this is why
- I don't have an answer for it. I think Monroe County was the model that the rest of the state should
- have been utilizing. We worked with the city for 40 years to develop 35 years. I'm sorry.
- to develop a system that was easy for the folks of Monroe County and the building department did all
- of the shuttling too. Departments were kind enough to shuttle back all of the information we needed.
- I think there's a misunderstanding. We have always issued multiple permits at the same time. We issued
- them. Building department at the same time collect
- the fees, disperse them. We did all of that. The legislation said we weren't fast enough, I guess. I
- think this legislation was not aimed at us. Yeah, no kidding. I think this legislation was aimed at
- counties that pulled up building permits for whatever reason, whatever. Certainly, it's not a mark on
- your good record and your hard work and your staff's work.
- Unfortunately, even if it wasn't, it has wrecked decades of work. Sometimes it was tough negotiating
- with with different to make communications easy. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sorry about that. And I hope it
- can get fixed. So so we don't have a choice. We have to do it as the state wants us to do it now. Correct.
- That's correct.
- One other interesting feature of the new state legislation is that individuals seeking building permits
- can use a private provider to do the inspections and plan review. And if they do that and the private
- provider provides a certificate and an affidavit to the building department, the building department
- has to issue the permit. They can't, they can't,
- second guess it or anything they have to issue it it does uh fortunately release the county of any liability
- uh in in that situation if a private provider is used isn't the private provider provision sorry I was
- taxing uh is that isn't that provision only if
- certain initial deadlines are not met by the building department or is that under any circumstance if
- the deadlines aren't met they can say hey i'm going to go to a private provider or they can do that
- initially they have to they have to indicate that on the building permit application okay but they pay
- for that not us oddly enough we're still charged to maintain public permit records and
- was to issue a certificate of occupancy on a building. Wow. Crazy. And just so y'all are aware, our
- plan is to be more efficient, faster, more knowledgeable, and to be best value for for. I think we do
- that already. Yeah, I was gonna say I think your value prospect is already much better than what's in
- the private market. So I wouldn't
- appreciate the sentiment though really it's it's good that you're thinking that way but i think this
- legislation was directed at some other counties gotten caught in the crossfire um the other the other
- two pieces of one one of the other ordinances amends chapter 433 and that's our licensing and registration
- chapter for
- electrical contractors and plumbing contractors. And so the changes to this are basically just to bring
- the terms and the language that's used currently into the ordinance and to clear up a few questions
- that have come up in this process. I don't know, Bobby, if you want to hit those.
- The state, and I appreciate it in some degrees, because I'm a homeowner as well, basically allows homeowners
- to do a lot of work on their homes, homes that they own. Our ordinance has allowed that for decades.
- What is happening now is certain folks will own a house for two weeks,
- and claim home ownership of that house and not use licensed contractors and plumbers or electricians
- and plumbers and then they don't own the house anymore. Changes there are to say no, this is for home
- that is your primary residence, right? Not market again.
- bringing language up to the that's used today and just kind of clarify the testing and quality. Monroe
- County licenses electricians, but the state licenses plumbers. That's why there's no testing procedures laid out.
- On that first ordinance, section two, it says specifically after December 31st, 2020, that because of
- the state legislation and when it starts. So it is your page three. On the 430, did you say? It's on
- the one that says 430 and 433. Oh, that? It's the first one.
- That's the permit fee ordinance. This is an ordinance that changes the way building permit fees are
- established. It states that
- the fees have to be reasonably related to the cost of providing the service. That's always been the
- case under the home rule law, but they've added it again to this section on building permit fees. They
- only allow you after January 1 of 2027, you can only change your building department fees once every
- five years. And only then there's a
- some calculus that you have to do. It's tied to the consumer price index or something like that. So
- it can only go up so much unless you have a public hearing in front of the county council and demonstrate
- that you need to charge more. So there's a safety valve there that allows us to do that. These fees
- that we're talking about today were last changed in 2012.
- So they need to be updated and Bobby has gone through and and done new calculations about how much time
- it takes to do each type of permit and so forth and has has made the adjustments and we've made some
- of the adjustments to to deal with.
- the new legislation on class two buildings about how we have to sometimes return fees. If we collect
- a building permit and then they decide, hey, we're going to use a private provider, we have to return
- the fee with the exception of $100, which is our convenience fee. So this is the building permit ordinance.
- We have it set up for advertisement. Once it's adopted, it'll have to be advertised in the newspaper,
- and then it takes effect six months later. So we won't be collecting these fees until towards the end
- of the year. And one option that Bobby has suggested is just making it effective on January 1, just
- to be clean.
- So that's that's something if the commissioners desire that we can we can change that when we present
- the final version to you. That makes sense. In that section two there's also provision for a non-reverting
- fund. Yes that's part of the new law and it says all building fees have to go into a non-revert
- Uh-huh. So it's interesting because the legislature put the same limit on fee increases for permits
- through planning as they did for building. So they're in the same situation. We are in the same situation.
- But they don't have this provision. Yes, that's correct. They do not have to create a dedicated fund.
- So the non-reverting fund is dedicated to
- In other words, it needs to be used to pay for salaries and fuel and supplies or whatever is in the
- building department's budget. Am I reading that correctly? That would be my assumption. Okay.
- So the council, is the council aware of this? I don't know. I would say make sure that at budget time
- you explain all of this to them. Yes.
- this is new. And it's not the same for planning. Okay. Yeah. Ask when does the need to be established?
- Starting January one. Okay. So yeah, so during the budget process, we need to make sure that plan on
- studying this more. Honestly, this is new. Yeah.
- more enjoy just being a building inspector than dealing with the legislative interpreter. I think that
- I'm going to have to get some education and I'm going to have to do everything you can and you've done
- everything you can and I appreciate seeing you.
- My colleagues have other questions about the three. You covered all of it. This is a heavy notes day.
- Thanks. I just said this is a heavy notes day. I'm sitting here taking notes because it's interesting
- to see how things are changing and how things are working. So yeah. So June 4th. Okay. So that's our
- next meeting.
- I think January 1st makes sense for the expectation. There was one other thing on the permits that Bobby
- had worked on. There's an opportunity sometimes it's necessary to have a private contractor review class one.
- Those usually go to the state but there's there's times when they're looked at through a private person
- and so the fee for that is there's going to be a fee established that is going to be sufficient to cover
- what it is likely to cost a private contractor. Go ahead Angie. Yes because I've been involved in this
- conversation with Bobby so I just need some clarification because my understanding is that
- this need for the contract is specifically because of our anticipated missing commercial inspector building
- inspector and because they're trying to find a relief valve because they're only going to have I think
- one or one and plus Bobby that could do that. So this is actually going to be a relief valve that's
- going to be in place.
- And so my understanding is that these plan reviews that had been done by building, our building department
- will go to this, to a contracted entity. And this fee is to, is a fee that is gonna be assessed to all
- properties. Last one.
- and covering the cost, so either we do it in house or if we send it outside of our house, it covers
- that cost. If it doesn't cover the cost outside of our house, we will eat that difference. That make
- sense? Yes, that's my understanding as well. I just continue to have conversations about this all the
- time. I wanna make sure this is right.
- I had a number in here that I thought was going to $300 for that plan review. I spoke yesterday with
- a private provider that I trust very much, and they've said that that will not cover their plan review
- fees. So I got the number of hours correct. The average number of hours is three. I held up four fingers
- and said three for a commercial plan review.
- Obviously there are smaller projects that take less time, and there are apartment buildings that take
- substantially more time than that. But the average is three, and they're at about $150. Ours is about
- $100 an hour, and there's... But if we still do it at the 300, that is fair for everybody.
- Because that is what would be the cost for you to do it, right? That would be the average cost for us.
- We're going to eat that other. So well, is there a way around that? I mean, Mr Schilling, is there a
- way that we could establish sort of? I've seen us do that before in other venues where we've said we're
- going to pass this cost along to
- you if it exceeds this, this is what you're paying for. Is there any way to do that in the building
- code where we can just pass that number along? Yeah, and we had language that we thought about where
- it would be established if a private provider was used.
- that their fee would be added to the fee charged by the building department and that would have to be
- paid by the applicant at the time. And that was one approach we talked about. The other approach we
- talked about was just having like on-call reviewers like we do with highway and stormwater, have a contract
- for an on-call at such and such a price.
- would invoice us and then we the problem is is that this is happening because we are short-staffed and
- we're sure that's because finish that sentence we're short-staffed because we anticipate somebody leaving
- uh-huh and we haven't filled the other position so there's two but there will be two vacant positions
- and has the council talked about filling the vacancy or not talked about filling the vacancy
- You can give a permission to fill one. Did you ask about the other? I did not, because maybe it's good,
- maybe it's bad. When I'm asked to do something, like not fill a position, even if I think we need it,
- I do that thing, because I'm assuming that there is a reason that I've been asked to do that thing.
- But we can't.
- We can't function as a department without at least one commercial building inspector. The fact that
- we're losing this one is what's causing this problem. So what the council needs to learn and maybe share
- this with the council is that if we don't get this filled that it will come at a cost to the county
- because if
- We set a $100 per hour, three hour rate average, and every time we use somebody outside, it costs $150,
- $200 more. The county's absorbing that. Taxpayers are absorbing that, like corporate welfare. It's corporate
- welfare. Taxpayers are paying for it. So if the council understands that, then maybe they will go ahead
- and if they haven't been told about it yet, that may be a way to present it to them. I don't think the
- council's the problem. The council's not the problem.
- at this point in time. The problem is we have somebody who's going to be leaving that we weren't planning
- on leaving. And so that has resulted in this rather dire situation, if you will. The other problem that
- has been brought to my attention is that the job description needs to be changed because we have somebody
- who has done it.
- and they said they're not going to do it. They don't want to do the commercial because it never ending
- and they get paid the same regardless of that never ending nightmare versus a potential, a nightmare
- that ends. So the job description needs to be changed because it sounds to me like from talking with
- Mr. LaRue,
- that the commercial inspector needs to be classified at a higher classification than the residential.
- Well, I asked that before, but there's a lot more that has to be done. There are a couple things, and
- I'm going to admit to you that the job descriptions that we're using now, I put them together within
- the first six months of
- this position and I think some ways are really successful and this way they're not. For example, I have
- tried basically the third empty position, the third is the position that I left and we have worked for
- two and a half years to try to fill it and I cannot get a qualified applicant. Because of the pay?
- I'm assuming that's part of it. The knowledge level, I mean, and part of it is... This is the first
- time you've heard, though, that this is somebody who's actually differentiated between the two types
- of inspectors. And so, you know, to know all of the things that you need to know to be a commercial
- building inspector, you can just be a commercial contractor. Yeah. And a highly successful one.
- Right. And it's a different thing. But I'm getting my the application and I'm not trying to
- but at qualification as I installed screen doors for Lowe's for six months. Our jobs are so much more
- than that. Well, I leave it in your capable hands to work with Ms. Purdy and Mr. Schilling and figure
- out the best way to manage this short term and long
- Obviously, this is a long-term answer to meet state code and state statute, but short-term, what do
- we need from council if they don't, you know, they need to be alerted to what's going on, possible impact.
- We can get that information. I'll take responsibilities for the things that I suggest, right? Part of
- my concern with just
- this is the fee that the private entity charged you is that it doesn't seem to our community. It doesn't
- seem like that is everybody, and then if I have to decide, no, we're gonna do this one for 300 and you're
- gonna go there for 900, that creates additional areas of conflict that, you know,
- that I would have good reasons for making that decision. And just a clarification, Mr. Schilling, if
- when we talked about the private individuals inspection work, is that also true on these projects or
- is it only true last year?
- we talked about earlier, only related to class two. That's what I thought. These commercial plan reviews.
- Yeah, they really are. I mean, and there's so much on the line. It's so important to get it right. OK.
- Well, I'll leave it. I mean, you all understand the issue. You all understand. Whatever you need from
- us to support you, let us know, and we'll do everything we can. I realize.
- But I do want to share, I, as a relief valve, plan reviews are something that I can work with. I don't
- have any interest in working with an on-site inspector that I have no, you know, no real, and we're
- able to accomplish the things we can in our department because of the reputation that we have. Not willing
- to let an unknown face
- uh... damage what we have worked for decades to to build and maintain not everybody likes us i'm not
- i'm not trying to say that sometimes people are unhappy with the things that we say but i think they
- respect us you have an excellent reputation and you and your staff have built that and uh... we can't
- let the state legislature destroy so keep up the good work and thank you for
- Working on this, I know it takes a lot to pull all this together. So thank you to all of you for working
- on this. And we can hear this on the fourth or if we have more time later. Thank you. I think it's got
- to get done in June if we want it by January 1st. That's true. It's got to be done by the end of June.
- Yes, for sure. Thank you. Thank you all very much. Thank you. Thanks for taking the time to answer all
- my questions. Sorry. It's interesting. Like the legislature thinks these things up.
- You know, it's not like, oh, just put it in your code and you're fine and it'll all work out. It doesn't.
- All right. Mr. Cockrell. Yes, and hopefully I can be fairly, fairly brief on this. In December of 2024,
- the commissioners, we went through the process to approve an easement for Southern Monroe Water around
- the property.
- In that easement in 2024, it included the ability for utilities to utilize these easements to utilize
- the structure. Well, they're going through their project now. Duke, the utility that would have been
- authorized, and I think is authorized under our former one, however, they refuse to do any of the work
- unless they have an easement of their own. The easement is for the same area, same restrictions, same
- everything, so there's really no value to it.
- So I don't think we have to go through the formal process, because if we were given away, it's not worth
- $1,000, right? So what I would request is so that they can keep their project moving, that you guys
- authorize the president and commissioners to sign the same easement stating basically Duke instead of
- allowing it to be used through the Southern Monroe Water Utility. I guess that's the request.
- And that's not what, if we do that, it's not going to impact Southern Monroe's. No, they're both not
- exclusively. Got it. Okay. Great. That was the word. Uh, question. Something we could go ahead and approve today.
- I think you could approve today. I actually, I guess I would prefer you go ahead and vote on it today.
- I really think it's already been approved in 2024, but we're changing it enough that I think it would
- be nice to have a vote. Would we need to ratify it as well in June or not? No, I think this has already
- been approved. Yep. Okay. So go ahead and make a motion that we approve
- the revision, facilities easement at, I call it Smithsville. I would say the Smithsville diamond property.
- There you go, Smithsville diamond property. We have a motion and a second. Does anybody have a public
- comment for this? You can raise your hand.
- All those in favor of modifying the easement to diamond facilities at the Smithville property signify
- by saying aye. Motion.
- With that, we are adjourned. Thanks everyone.