- All right, it is 11 o'clock. I will call this meeting to order. Back off the microphone, we go. I will
- move to adopt the agenda. Second. Ms. Githans, can you hear us? I can. Can you hear me? And we can hear
- you, so that works. Are those in favor of adopting the agenda? Aye. Aye. Opposed? OK.
- I'm going to leave the overview of the complaint process to Molly, if you don't mind. Yes, but technically
- since myth gets myths, let me start over. Yes, I'm happy to do the complaint process, but to adopt the
- agenda, we have to do a roll call vote since there's one person online. So can I do a real quick roll
- call for him? Please call the roll. Danny Shields. Yes.
- Yes. Okay, now we will ask. Okay, so here today because the election board has received three complaints.
- Regarding candidates and activity in this past and and their behavior in the primary.
- What I want to be clear today is that the purpose of today's meeting is not in any way to adjudicate
- those complaints on the merits. Today's meeting is for one, the board to formally receive the complaints,
- and then two, to determine if there's a substantial reason to believe an election law violation has
- occurred. If the board believes there's a substantial reason to believe an election law violation occurred,
- then that triggers the need for a hearing. For a hearing,
- The individual making the complaint and the candidate for which the complaint is against have certain
- rights, the hearings governed by due process. So each party would have the right to be heard, including
- presenting evidence and making argument. And that includes the right to, if either party wants to obtain
- an attorney to present evidence to the board, they could do so, but that is up to them. So what we need
- to determine today is,
- does the election board feel that on any of the complaints there's a need for a hearing and then thereafter
- a hearing date so that we can send each party notice because by due process they're required to receive
- notice which includes a copy of the complaint and any evidence that the board has received in correlation
- with that complaint. It also has the ability to subpoena individuals if they'd like to do so. So in
- part of determining if you want to have a hearing we also need to talk about
- whether the board is issuing subpoenas because there's an entire process of working with a law enforcement
- agency to get those subpoenas served. So those are really the points of today's hearing. Do we have
- the option to reach out to the complainants and the complainty and say, are you willing to come to this
- rather than go through the whole
- subpoena process to save that work. In the past, we have since the notice was structured in a manner
- that it was set. This is the date of the hearing. You have the right to appear. Here's the complaint
- against you. We invite you to appear. So it was less coercive, so to speak. Yes, thank you. What are
- your thoughts on? I am comfortable with either.
- So whatever the board decides, I can accept and respect. I guess I'll leave it to you, Mr. Chair. Ms.
- Givens, you have any thoughts before we move a little bit here? Well, two quick thoughts. First, I think
- that as I read it, the complaint against Janae Trimble was not during the primary, it was her actions
- in trying to
- receive or obtain signatures to be put on the general ballot as an independent district. That's just
- a clarification. But I would like to ask Ms. Molly Turner-King also, there were multiple people who
- were down at the election central during electioneering for the early prime, you know, before, well,
- during early voting. And I wonder if it would be
- reasonable to ask some of them to also testify if we go to a hearing. I think the board could ask or
- invite whoever they believe has information that would be pertinent to the complaint to provide that
- information to the board. I do want to note, though, that the burden is on the petitioner or the person
- making the complaint to present evidence to the board.
- so that they can determine whether an election law happened or not. Well, the complainant could say,
- Joe over here heard this, and I want to hear. OK, so we can do it that way. That makes sense to me.
- The other question I have is that if Ms. Trimble, who currently is not a candidate and does not become
- a candidate, is what she's accused of doing illegal? I would have to look into that.
- I think I provided some statutes that might be pertinent to that complaint. I think Ms. Giddens is correct.
- That complaint is regarding activity of a non-candidate. But that person is trying to get on the ballot.
- And so I do think election laws would apply in that sense. I wanted to clarify that before we moved
- on with that.
- Mr. Chair, I have two things. First, I think I thought we were addressing these one at a time. And so
- since you jumped to number five, we can probably take number five off the table in that I called the
- Indiana election division this morning and asked some questions. And it turned out that the person that
- I spoke with already understood what was going on with regard to
- complaint number under number five on the agenda. And what I was told was there is nothing in election
- code to address what the understanding is as far as the nature of the complaint. And I have, since they're
- an attorney, I have no reason to dispute what they are saying. So I'm assuming that we really only need,
- especially in the interest of time,
- we really only need to address item number four, the complaints on item number four. I'm sorry, go ahead.
- May I ask a question? If Ms. Trimble does become an independent candidate and we see that some of the
- signature sheets, the dates on them, because people have to, I looked at the CAN 21, which is what's
- needed for the signatures.
- If we look at the dates of those, can those be questioned in terms of whether or not they were collected
- with the understanding that it was in trade for a service that she provides? That's my question too.
- And I think you're really starting to get into the merits of the complaint. I think we need to just
- focus on, based on the information that you have,
- Do you think there's a substantial, reasonable belief to have a hearing to determine if an election
- law violation occurs? I think those questions go to the nature of the activity and whether it constitutes
- the violation, if that makes sense. What I'm asking is if we should hold off on this, because we don't
- even know she's going to become a candidate at this point, whether she'll qualify.
- the, um, it isn't within the discretion of the election board asked to win to set a hearing.
- So you could, you know, decide you don't think you don't think there's a substantial reasonable belief
- to have a hearing and not have a hearing. So we can, you could, but she's what Ms. Givens is saying,
- I believe it. I kind of agree with this. We can table this one until she becomes a candidate.
- And if she does, then we come back and look at it. Or you could, Ms. Givens, does that make sense to you?
- I think that's kind of what you were saying. Right, right. And the deadline, as I understand it, for
- her to file is July the 15th of this year to get all of her paperwork. Then I would entertain, Molly,
- tell me if I'm wrong with doing this. And I would entertain a motion to put item number five, table it,
- until it needs to be addressed at a later date, if it indeed does. And go ahead, Molly. Yes, I think
- that's another motion that you can make, obviously. But I do think you have to formally receive that
- complaint first. So I think we need to first, I think we can- We need a motion to receive the complaints.
- We need something to say that you formally received it. So if you- I will move that we formally receive
- the complaints. Okay. I'll second.
- I'm going to ask a qualifying question on your motion. Ask away. Is your motion that you're receiving
- all three complaints together and acknowledging it, or are you acknowledging it individually?
- Neither works. Legally, does it matter? As long as you acknowledge that you got them. Well, then I would
- put them all together. Good. And we'll address them when we need to address them.
- Okay, let me rephrase it. We've received them, we'll address them as need be, and probably we'll set
- a hearing for the one we have at number four on our list. Okay, so I think, correct me if I'm wrong,
- Mr. Chair, the motion on the table is to formally receive the three complaints that have been provided
- to the election board, correct? Correct. Is there a second?
- I think it's already dead. Yes. Would you like to call roll on that motion? Nicole Brown? Yes. Dan Shields?
- Yes. Penny Giddens? Yes. And then I believe, Mr. Chair, you are making a motion in regards to handle
- the complaint that's item number five on the agenda. Yes, then I will move that we table number five
- until and if it because the complainty
- Is that a legal enough term? Becomes a candidate. I will second. I'll second. Any other discussion?
- Please roll the roll. Nicole Brown? Yes. Danny Shields? Yes. Penny Givens? Yes. I'd like to remind the
- chair, too, that we need to make sure that there's no public comment on our motions. I haven't seen
- a hand raised, but yeah, just a reminder.
- I didn't believe that this was that kind of meeting, but okay. I don't see a hand anywhere on them.
- I didn't either on that one. Yeah. All right. So that leaves the complaint. There are two complaints
- in item four and they do think it would be efficient to handle them individually. So I'd like to direct
- the attention
- of the election board to the complaint received by Ms. Wheeler. And so I think the question before the
- board is, is there a substantial reason to believe an election law violation occurred so that you would
- want to set a hearing on that matter? Are the hearings necessarily separate, or can we have the hearings
- together? You can have them. You can have multiple hearings on one day. And that would be, in my opinion,
- the efficient
- way to handle those because both of the other complaints involved the same candidate. So, Mr. Chair,
- having had an opportunity to review what was email us, I do believe there is substantial reason to believe
- that an election law violation has occurred. And I happy to following the vote
- take the necessary steps to set a hearing date. OK. So is that a motion that we? It is. OK. I will second.
- Please call the roll. Ms. Givens, you have any comments? No, I concur. I believe it. OK. Violation has
- occurred. Please call the roll. Nicole Brown? Yes. Danny Shields? Yes. Penny Givens? Yes. We need to
- set a date.
- I believe there is any really pressing need at this moment to do them like next week or something. I
- will not be available next week. Okay, so you're going to be gone for a bit. When do you go a date that
- you think might work and then we'll go from there? I'm assuming we're talking June before you get back, correct?
- If I might make a suggestion, is there an election board meeting scheduled already for June 4th? You
- could do the hearings on those dates. That would be what I would suggest. All right, then we'll move
- that we hold the hearings on as part of the June 4th election board meeting. I'd like to declare.
- clarify that this is the hearings against the candidate Joe Davis? Yes. This is the hearing in regards
- to the complaint that Ms. Wheeler submitted. And then if you handle the other complaint by Ms. McGarry,
- you can also set it the same day. We just haven't voted on that one yet. Well, if we do them the same
- day, we don't have to bring anybody in more than once. And I'm a fan of that concept.
- Okay, then call the roll, please. Nicole Brown? Yes. Danny Shields? Yes. Penny Givens? Yes. All right,
- thank you. So here are those complaints on the fourth, yeah, June 4th. Mr. Chair, if I may interject,
- sorry. Yes, you're the lawyer on this.
- Only voted that there's a substantial reason to have a hearing on the complaint by Miss Wheeler. So
- you would have to decide if there's, if you're also having a hearing on the McGarry complaint.
- We did that. So we'll just add that one to it by a motion that we add the complaint from Miss McGarry.
- I will make that motion. Second. I second. Call the roll please. Nicole Brown. Danny Shields. Yes. Penny
- Givens. Yes.
- The election law is more complicated than football. And football is pretty complicated. We need to get
- right into it. I will concur with that. Yeah, yeah. What date was set? It was set June 4th. Did we have
- to set a time? I'm sorry, go ahead. Did we have to set a time? I'm assuming our normal 1-30 time. I
- think that's what we said. Our normal 1-30. For the regular election board meeting is what I understood.
- And then procedurally, I will
- The board needs to decide who the notices they would like to go to. So I'm happy to handle the notice
- if the board wants to direct me to do so. I would like to direct you to do so. I think we need to reach
- out to the people who file the complaints, the people the complaint is against. And as you talked earlier,
- allow them to have, I have no problem with witnesses. And obviously they can always have an attorney
- if they want one.
- Before you take a vote on that motion, I would like to express what my intent would be to do to carry
- out that task. I would send a notice to Ms. Wheeler and Ms. McGarry as the people bringing forth the
- complaint and then Mr. Davis as the candidate whom the complaint is against. And then each party would
- receive a copy of the complaint so that specifically Mr. Davis would know the allegations against him.
- And then I will send it certified to ensure that notice has been received.
- That works for me. I'd like to make it as quickly as possible to give him time because June 4th is not
- that far away. I will get it out first thing Monday morning. Awesome. So if and I think you should do
- a motion to direct me to do so. I move to direct you to do that. I'm listening. Are we sending a notice
- as an invitation or are we sending a subpoena?
- I would prefer to send a notice. We have to send a notice saying, this is the date of the hearing. This
- is the complaint against you. And in that notice, the language that I would use would be like, the election
- board invites you to come to this hearing. It looks to me like that's an option. Like, well, you either
- do this or you do this. I'm perfectly fine with it being a notice. Should the person that's being charged
- choose not to come in and defend themselves, that's their choice.
- Correct. It's election board decision whether to issue the subpoena or not. All we're really doing,
- correct me if I'm wrong here, is deciding whether or not we think enough happened that the prosecutor
- should get this sent to them. Am I correct in that? Correct. The election board would be determining
- if they believe an election board violation occurred, what to do with that, and that can include forwarding
- it to the attorney general or the prosecutor.
- You can only send it to the prosecutor if it's on a crime to violate that election law. And so it would
- have to be within chapter 314, I believe, without looking. Yes. 314, 3, 4, C, 1, B, and A, I think it
- is. And it's within the election board's discretion if they want to issue the subpoenas or not.
- If pursuant to the code, you may issue the subpoenas to compel the witnesses to answer under oath any
- questions that properly become before the board, but the subpoena is not required. It did not sound
- like something that would be your preference as the chair. I would rather try to do this. I prefer to
- give someone the chance to say, oh, I messed up. And when it didn't really
- it didn't really have a whole lot of effect on a lot of stuff. I would prefer a notice that we're going
- to have this hearing as opposed to a subpoena and say, get in here. So I believe the motion on the floor
- is a motion to direct county legal to provide the necessary notice and supporting documents to the,
- in essence, petitioners and then the candidate, correct? Yes, that's my preference, yes. I second the motion.
- Would you like to call a roll on that? Nicole Brown? Yes. Danny Shields? Yes. Penny Givens? Yes.
- Thank you. I believe that's what we need to do today, am I correct? I believe that addresses all the
- matters before the board today. Then I would entertain a motion, unless you have something. Motion to
- adjourn. Motion to adjourn. Second? Do we need to call a roll on that as well? Yes. Come on, come on.
- Nicole Brown. Yes. Danny Shields. Yes. Penny Givens. Yes. All right. Thank you very much. We are adjourned.