WEBVTT 00:00:00.610 --> 00:00:09.878 - All right, it is 11 o'clock. I will call this meeting to order. Back off the microphone, we go. I will 00:00:09.878 --> 00:00:19.236 - move to adopt the agenda. Second. Ms. Githans, can you hear us? I can. Can you hear me? And we can hear 00:00:19.236 --> 00:00:26.974 - you, so that works. Are those in favor of adopting the agenda? Aye. Aye. Opposed? OK. 00:00:27.970 --> 00:00:36.417 - I'm going to leave the overview of the complaint process to Molly, if you don't mind. Yes, but technically 00:00:36.417 --> 00:00:44.549 - since myth gets myths, let me start over. Yes, I'm happy to do the complaint process, but to adopt the 00:00:44.549 --> 00:00:52.601 - agenda, we have to do a roll call vote since there's one person online. So can I do a real quick roll 00:00:52.601 --> 00:00:57.022 - call for him? Please call the roll. Danny Shields. Yes. 00:00:57.506 --> 00:01:10.489 - Yes. Okay, now we will ask. Okay, so here today because the election board has received three complaints. 00:01:10.489 --> 00:01:21.022 - Regarding candidates and activity in this past and and their behavior in the primary. 00:01:21.890 --> 00:01:27.930 - What I want to be clear today is that the purpose of today's meeting is not in any way to adjudicate 00:01:27.930 --> 00:01:34.268 - those complaints on the merits. Today's meeting is for one, the board to formally receive the complaints, 00:01:34.268 --> 00:01:40.248 - and then two, to determine if there's a substantial reason to believe an election law violation has 00:01:40.248 --> 00:01:46.706 - occurred. If the board believes there's a substantial reason to believe an election law violation occurred, 00:01:46.706 --> 00:01:50.174 - then that triggers the need for a hearing. For a hearing, 00:01:51.458 --> 00:01:57.635 - The individual making the complaint and the candidate for which the complaint is against have certain 00:01:57.635 --> 00:02:03.933 - rights, the hearings governed by due process. So each party would have the right to be heard, including 00:02:03.933 --> 00:02:10.291 - presenting evidence and making argument. And that includes the right to, if either party wants to obtain 00:02:10.291 --> 00:02:16.589 - an attorney to present evidence to the board, they could do so, but that is up to them. So what we need 00:02:16.589 --> 00:02:17.982 - to determine today is, 00:02:18.242 --> 00:02:24.713 - does the election board feel that on any of the complaints there's a need for a hearing and then thereafter 00:02:24.713 --> 00:02:30.945 - a hearing date so that we can send each party notice because by due process they're required to receive 00:02:30.945 --> 00:02:37.296 - notice which includes a copy of the complaint and any evidence that the board has received in correlation 00:02:37.296 --> 00:02:43.288 - with that complaint. It also has the ability to subpoena individuals if they'd like to do so. So in 00:02:43.288 --> 00:02:47.902 - part of determining if you want to have a hearing we also need to talk about 00:02:48.002 --> 00:02:56.601 - whether the board is issuing subpoenas because there's an entire process of working with a law enforcement 00:02:56.601 --> 00:03:04.637 - agency to get those subpoenas served. So those are really the points of today's hearing. Do we have 00:03:04.637 --> 00:03:12.994 - the option to reach out to the complainants and the complainty and say, are you willing to come to this 00:03:12.994 --> 00:03:15.646 - rather than go through the whole 00:03:15.810 --> 00:03:24.170 - subpoena process to save that work. In the past, we have since the notice was structured in a manner 00:03:24.170 --> 00:03:32.529 - that it was set. This is the date of the hearing. You have the right to appear. Here's the complaint 00:03:32.529 --> 00:03:40.889 - against you. We invite you to appear. So it was less coercive, so to speak. Yes, thank you. What are 00:03:40.889 --> 00:03:44.862 - your thoughts on? I am comfortable with either. 00:03:45.314 --> 00:03:54.790 - So whatever the board decides, I can accept and respect. I guess I'll leave it to you, Mr. Chair. Ms. 00:03:54.790 --> 00:04:04.546 - Givens, you have any thoughts before we move a little bit here? Well, two quick thoughts. First, I think 00:04:04.546 --> 00:04:14.022 - that as I read it, the complaint against Janae Trimble was not during the primary, it was her actions 00:04:14.022 --> 00:04:15.230 - in trying to 00:04:15.586 --> 00:04:22.942 - receive or obtain signatures to be put on the general ballot as an independent district. That's just 00:04:22.942 --> 00:04:30.225 - a clarification. But I would like to ask Ms. Molly Turner-King also, there were multiple people who 00:04:30.225 --> 00:04:37.581 - were down at the election central during electioneering for the early prime, you know, before, well, 00:04:37.581 --> 00:04:41.150 - during early voting. And I wonder if it would be 00:04:41.602 --> 00:04:49.435 - reasonable to ask some of them to also testify if we go to a hearing. I think the board could ask or 00:04:49.435 --> 00:04:57.267 - invite whoever they believe has information that would be pertinent to the complaint to provide that 00:04:57.267 --> 00:05:05.333 - information to the board. I do want to note, though, that the burden is on the petitioner or the person 00:05:05.333 --> 00:05:09.598 - making the complaint to present evidence to the board. 00:05:09.794 --> 00:05:17.528 - so that they can determine whether an election law happened or not. Well, the complainant could say, 00:05:17.528 --> 00:05:25.186 - Joe over here heard this, and I want to hear. OK, so we can do it that way. That makes sense to me. 00:05:25.186 --> 00:05:33.073 - The other question I have is that if Ms. Trimble, who currently is not a candidate and does not become 00:05:33.073 --> 00:05:39.582 - a candidate, is what she's accused of doing illegal? I would have to look into that. 00:05:39.874 --> 00:05:48.190 - I think I provided some statutes that might be pertinent to that complaint. I think Ms. Giddens is correct. 00:05:48.190 --> 00:05:56.276 - That complaint is regarding activity of a non-candidate. But that person is trying to get on the ballot. 00:05:56.276 --> 00:06:03.976 - And so I do think election laws would apply in that sense. I wanted to clarify that before we moved 00:06:03.976 --> 00:06:05.054 - on with that. 00:06:05.986 --> 00:06:13.820 - Mr. Chair, I have two things. First, I think I thought we were addressing these one at a time. And so 00:06:13.820 --> 00:06:21.578 - since you jumped to number five, we can probably take number five off the table in that I called the 00:06:21.578 --> 00:06:29.566 - Indiana election division this morning and asked some questions. And it turned out that the person that 00:06:29.566 --> 00:06:34.558 - I spoke with already understood what was going on with regard to 00:06:35.042 --> 00:06:43.248 - complaint number under number five on the agenda. And what I was told was there is nothing in election 00:06:43.248 --> 00:06:51.773 - code to address what the understanding is as far as the nature of the complaint. And I have, since they're 00:06:51.773 --> 00:07:00.138 - an attorney, I have no reason to dispute what they are saying. So I'm assuming that we really only need, 00:07:00.138 --> 00:07:03.006 - especially in the interest of time, 00:07:03.394 --> 00:07:11.782 - we really only need to address item number four, the complaints on item number four. I'm sorry, go ahead. 00:07:11.782 --> 00:07:19.853 - May I ask a question? If Ms. Trimble does become an independent candidate and we see that some of the 00:07:19.853 --> 00:07:27.845 - signature sheets, the dates on them, because people have to, I looked at the CAN 21, which is what's 00:07:27.845 --> 00:07:29.982 - needed for the signatures. 00:07:31.522 --> 00:07:39.307 - If we look at the dates of those, can those be questioned in terms of whether or not they were collected 00:07:39.307 --> 00:07:46.796 - with the understanding that it was in trade for a service that she provides? That's my question too. 00:07:46.796 --> 00:07:54.211 - And I think you're really starting to get into the merits of the complaint. I think we need to just 00:07:54.211 --> 00:07:57.918 - focus on, based on the information that you have, 00:07:58.050 --> 00:08:05.355 - Do you think there's a substantial, reasonable belief to have a hearing to determine if an election 00:08:05.355 --> 00:08:13.099 - law violation occurs? I think those questions go to the nature of the activity and whether it constitutes 00:08:13.099 --> 00:08:20.623 - the violation, if that makes sense. What I'm asking is if we should hold off on this, because we don't 00:08:20.623 --> 00:08:26.686 - even know she's going to become a candidate at this point, whether she'll qualify. 00:08:27.170 --> 00:08:32.696 - the, um, it isn't within the discretion of the election board asked to win to set a hearing. 00:08:32.696 --> 00:08:38.816 - So you could, you know, decide you don't think you don't think there's a substantial reasonable belief 00:08:38.816 --> 00:08:44.818 - to have a hearing and not have a hearing. So we can, you could, but she's what Ms. Givens is saying, 00:08:44.818 --> 00:08:50.403 - I believe it. I kind of agree with this. We can table this one until she becomes a candidate. 00:08:50.403 --> 00:08:56.702 - And if she does, then we come back and look at it. Or you could, Ms. Givens, does that make sense to you? 00:08:57.474 --> 00:09:04.516 - I think that's kind of what you were saying. Right, right. And the deadline, as I understand it, for 00:09:04.516 --> 00:09:11.627 - her to file is July the 15th of this year to get all of her paperwork. Then I would entertain, Molly, 00:09:11.627 --> 00:09:18.878 - tell me if I'm wrong with doing this. And I would entertain a motion to put item number five, table it, 00:09:18.978 --> 00:09:24.819 - until it needs to be addressed at a later date, if it indeed does. And go ahead, Molly. Yes, I think 00:09:24.819 --> 00:09:30.661 - that's another motion that you can make, obviously. But I do think you have to formally receive that 00:09:30.661 --> 00:09:36.791 - complaint first. So I think we need to first, I think we can- We need a motion to receive the complaints. 00:09:36.791 --> 00:09:42.806 - We need something to say that you formally received it. So if you- I will move that we formally receive 00:09:42.806 --> 00:09:44.830 - the complaints. Okay. I'll second. 00:09:45.442 --> 00:09:52.335 - I'm going to ask a qualifying question on your motion. Ask away. Is your motion that you're receiving 00:09:52.335 --> 00:09:58.688 - all three complaints together and acknowledging it, or are you acknowledging it individually? 00:09:58.688 --> 00:10:05.784 - Neither works. Legally, does it matter? As long as you acknowledge that you got them. Well, then I would 00:10:05.784 --> 00:10:11.326 - put them all together. Good. And we'll address them when we need to address them. 00:10:13.698 --> 00:10:21.197 - Okay, let me rephrase it. We've received them, we'll address them as need be, and probably we'll set 00:10:21.197 --> 00:10:28.696 - a hearing for the one we have at number four on our list. Okay, so I think, correct me if I'm wrong, 00:10:28.696 --> 00:10:36.343 - Mr. Chair, the motion on the table is to formally receive the three complaints that have been provided 00:10:36.343 --> 00:10:40.798 - to the election board, correct? Correct. Is there a second? 00:10:41.634 --> 00:10:50.783 - I think it's already dead. Yes. Would you like to call roll on that motion? Nicole Brown? Yes. Dan Shields? 00:10:50.783 --> 00:10:59.339 - Yes. Penny Giddens? Yes. And then I believe, Mr. Chair, you are making a motion in regards to handle 00:10:59.339 --> 00:11:07.894 - the complaint that's item number five on the agenda. Yes, then I will move that we table number five 00:11:07.894 --> 00:11:11.198 - until and if it because the complainty 00:11:11.842 --> 00:11:20.300 - Is that a legal enough term? Becomes a candidate. I will second. I'll second. Any other discussion? 00:11:20.300 --> 00:11:29.012 - Please roll the roll. Nicole Brown? Yes. Danny Shields? Yes. Penny Givens? Yes. I'd like to remind the 00:11:29.012 --> 00:11:37.470 - chair, too, that we need to make sure that there's no public comment on our motions. I haven't seen 00:11:37.470 --> 00:11:41.022 - a hand raised, but yeah, just a reminder. 00:11:43.874 --> 00:11:52.078 - I didn't believe that this was that kind of meeting, but okay. I don't see a hand anywhere on them. 00:11:52.078 --> 00:12:00.365 - I didn't either on that one. Yeah. All right. So that leaves the complaint. There are two complaints 00:12:00.365 --> 00:12:08.897 - in item four and they do think it would be efficient to handle them individually. So I'd like to direct 00:12:08.897 --> 00:12:10.046 - the attention 00:12:10.210 --> 00:12:17.045 - of the election board to the complaint received by Ms. Wheeler. And so I think the question before the 00:12:17.045 --> 00:12:23.947 - board is, is there a substantial reason to believe an election law violation occurred so that you would 00:12:23.947 --> 00:12:30.915 - want to set a hearing on that matter? Are the hearings necessarily separate, or can we have the hearings 00:12:30.915 --> 00:12:37.949 - together? You can have them. You can have multiple hearings on one day. And that would be, in my opinion, 00:12:37.949 --> 00:12:38.878 - the efficient 00:12:39.010 --> 00:12:49.279 - way to handle those because both of the other complaints involved the same candidate. So, Mr. Chair, 00:12:49.279 --> 00:13:00.158 - having had an opportunity to review what was email us, I do believe there is substantial reason to believe 00:13:00.158 --> 00:13:08.190 - that an election law violation has occurred. And I happy to following the vote 00:13:08.706 --> 00:13:17.991 - take the necessary steps to set a hearing date. OK. So is that a motion that we? It is. OK. I will second. 00:13:17.991 --> 00:13:26.929 - Please call the roll. Ms. Givens, you have any comments? No, I concur. I believe it. OK. Violation has 00:13:26.929 --> 00:13:35.693 - occurred. Please call the roll. Nicole Brown? Yes. Danny Shields? Yes. Penny Givens? Yes. We need to 00:13:35.693 --> 00:13:36.734 - set a date. 00:13:40.194 --> 00:13:48.994 - I believe there is any really pressing need at this moment to do them like next week or something. I 00:13:48.994 --> 00:13:58.056 - will not be available next week. Okay, so you're going to be gone for a bit. When do you go a date that 00:13:58.056 --> 00:14:07.902 - you think might work and then we'll go from there? I'm assuming we're talking June before you get back, correct? 00:14:08.002 --> 00:14:17.136 - If I might make a suggestion, is there an election board meeting scheduled already for June 4th? You 00:14:17.136 --> 00:14:26.271 - could do the hearings on those dates. That would be what I would suggest. All right, then we'll move 00:14:26.271 --> 00:14:35.134 - that we hold the hearings on as part of the June 4th election board meeting. I'd like to declare. 00:14:35.522 --> 00:14:42.939 - clarify that this is the hearings against the candidate Joe Davis? Yes. This is the hearing in regards 00:14:42.939 --> 00:14:50.428 - to the complaint that Ms. Wheeler submitted. And then if you handle the other complaint by Ms. McGarry, 00:14:50.428 --> 00:14:57.773 - you can also set it the same day. We just haven't voted on that one yet. Well, if we do them the same 00:14:57.773 --> 00:15:03.966 - day, we don't have to bring anybody in more than once. And I'm a fan of that concept. 00:15:04.546 --> 00:15:14.081 - Okay, then call the roll, please. Nicole Brown? Yes. Danny Shields? Yes. Penny Givens? Yes. All right, 00:15:14.081 --> 00:15:23.524 - thank you. So here are those complaints on the fourth, yeah, June 4th. Mr. Chair, if I may interject, 00:15:23.524 --> 00:15:27.134 - sorry. Yes, you're the lawyer on this. 00:15:27.938 --> 00:15:34.599 - Only voted that there's a substantial reason to have a hearing on the complaint by Miss Wheeler. So 00:15:34.599 --> 00:15:40.926 - you would have to decide if there's, if you're also having a hearing on the McGarry complaint. 00:15:40.926 --> 00:15:47.787 - We did that. So we'll just add that one to it by a motion that we add the complaint from Miss McGarry. 00:15:47.787 --> 00:15:54.780 - I will make that motion. Second. I second. Call the roll please. Nicole Brown. Danny Shields. Yes. Penny 00:15:54.780 --> 00:15:55.646 - Givens. Yes. 00:15:58.562 --> 00:16:05.362 - The election law is more complicated than football. And football is pretty complicated. We need to get 00:16:05.362 --> 00:16:12.228 - right into it. I will concur with that. Yeah, yeah. What date was set? It was set June 4th. Did we have 00:16:12.228 --> 00:16:18.830 - to set a time? I'm sorry, go ahead. Did we have to set a time? I'm assuming our normal 1-30 time. I 00:16:18.830 --> 00:16:25.761 - think that's what we said. Our normal 1-30. For the regular election board meeting is what I understood. 00:16:25.761 --> 00:16:27.742 - And then procedurally, I will 00:16:28.162 --> 00:16:34.931 - The board needs to decide who the notices they would like to go to. So I'm happy to handle the notice 00:16:34.931 --> 00:16:41.832 - if the board wants to direct me to do so. I would like to direct you to do so. I think we need to reach 00:16:41.832 --> 00:16:48.933 - out to the people who file the complaints, the people the complaint is against. And as you talked earlier, 00:16:48.933 --> 00:16:55.635 - allow them to have, I have no problem with witnesses. And obviously they can always have an attorney 00:16:55.635 --> 00:16:56.830 - if they want one. 00:16:59.234 --> 00:17:05.444 - Before you take a vote on that motion, I would like to express what my intent would be to do to carry 00:17:05.444 --> 00:17:11.594 - out that task. I would send a notice to Ms. Wheeler and Ms. McGarry as the people bringing forth the 00:17:11.594 --> 00:17:17.865 - complaint and then Mr. Davis as the candidate whom the complaint is against. And then each party would 00:17:17.865 --> 00:17:24.136 - receive a copy of the complaint so that specifically Mr. Davis would know the allegations against him. 00:17:24.136 --> 00:17:28.702 - And then I will send it certified to ensure that notice has been received. 00:17:30.146 --> 00:17:37.903 - That works for me. I'd like to make it as quickly as possible to give him time because June 4th is not 00:17:37.903 --> 00:17:45.585 - that far away. I will get it out first thing Monday morning. Awesome. So if and I think you should do 00:17:45.585 --> 00:17:53.418 - a motion to direct me to do so. I move to direct you to do that. I'm listening. Are we sending a notice 00:17:53.418 --> 00:17:56.958 - as an invitation or are we sending a subpoena? 00:17:57.730 --> 00:18:04.071 - I would prefer to send a notice. We have to send a notice saying, this is the date of the hearing. This 00:18:04.071 --> 00:18:10.657 - is the complaint against you. And in that notice, the language that I would use would be like, the election 00:18:10.657 --> 00:18:16.998 - board invites you to come to this hearing. It looks to me like that's an option. Like, well, you either 00:18:16.998 --> 00:18:23.462 - do this or you do this. I'm perfectly fine with it being a notice. Should the person that's being charged 00:18:23.462 --> 00:18:27.486 - choose not to come in and defend themselves, that's their choice. 00:18:27.618 --> 00:18:33.233 - Correct. It's election board decision whether to issue the subpoena or not. All we're really doing, 00:18:33.233 --> 00:18:38.960 - correct me if I'm wrong here, is deciding whether or not we think enough happened that the prosecutor 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:44.631 - should get this sent to them. Am I correct in that? Correct. The election board would be determining 00:18:44.631 --> 00:18:50.695 - if they believe an election board violation occurred, what to do with that, and that can include forwarding 00:18:50.695 --> 00:18:53.278 - it to the attorney general or the prosecutor. 00:18:55.778 --> 00:19:05.628 - You can only send it to the prosecutor if it's on a crime to violate that election law. And so it would 00:19:05.628 --> 00:19:15.289 - have to be within chapter 314, I believe, without looking. Yes. 314, 3, 4, C, 1, B, and A, I think it 00:19:15.289 --> 00:19:24.382 - is. And it's within the election board's discretion if they want to issue the subpoenas or not. 00:19:25.378 --> 00:19:32.594 - If pursuant to the code, you may issue the subpoenas to compel the witnesses to answer under oath any 00:19:32.594 --> 00:19:39.668 - questions that properly become before the board, but the subpoena is not required. It did not sound 00:19:39.668 --> 00:19:46.884 - like something that would be your preference as the chair. I would rather try to do this. I prefer to 00:19:46.884 --> 00:19:52.190 - give someone the chance to say, oh, I messed up. And when it didn't really 00:19:53.570 --> 00:20:00.765 - it didn't really have a whole lot of effect on a lot of stuff. I would prefer a notice that we're going 00:20:00.765 --> 00:20:08.029 - to have this hearing as opposed to a subpoena and say, get in here. So I believe the motion on the floor 00:20:08.029 --> 00:20:14.948 - is a motion to direct county legal to provide the necessary notice and supporting documents to the, 00:20:14.948 --> 00:20:22.558 - in essence, petitioners and then the candidate, correct? Yes, that's my preference, yes. I second the motion. 00:20:24.066 --> 00:20:30.551 - Would you like to call a roll on that? Nicole Brown? Yes. Danny Shields? Yes. Penny Givens? Yes. 00:20:30.551 --> 00:20:37.303 - Thank you. I believe that's what we need to do today, am I correct? I believe that addresses all the 00:20:37.303 --> 00:20:44.123 - matters before the board today. Then I would entertain a motion, unless you have something. Motion to 00:20:44.123 --> 00:20:50.942 - adjourn. Motion to adjourn. Second? Do we need to call a roll on that as well? Yes. Come on, come on. 00:20:51.042 --> 00:20:58.750 - Nicole Brown. Yes. Danny Shields. Yes. Penny Givens. Yes. All right. Thank you very much. We are adjourned.