WEBVTT 00:00:00.162 --> 00:00:07.676 - All right, it is nine o'clock. I will call the August 12th meeting of the election board to order. Are 00:00:07.676 --> 00:00:15.264 - you guys up top? Are you guys good up top with the sound? You need a little bit? Okay. My understanding 00:00:15.264 --> 00:00:22.778 - is there was a power surge and they're trying to get everything back up. So we will sit here and smile 00:00:22.778 --> 00:00:24.894 - till you tell us we're good. 00:00:53.186 --> 00:01:01.500 - I hope other five minutes just go that quickly. Okay, then we will first thing is we need to adopt our 00:01:01.500 --> 00:01:09.894 - agenda which we have and it's posted. I will move to adopt the agenda as we have been given it. Second. 00:01:09.894 --> 00:01:18.369 - Any discussion? We can do those in favor. Aye. Opposed? All right. Now we have to decide how we're going 00:01:18.369 --> 00:01:21.598 - to address the complaints that we have. 00:01:24.738 --> 00:01:33.447 - I'm going to leave that. You tell us what we need to do, sir. Well, I think you've got a couple of choices, 00:01:33.447 --> 00:01:41.510 - right? I think looking through all the complaints, they all seem to be the same complaint from five 00:01:41.510 --> 00:01:50.300 - different people, which is that there is a violation of Indiana Code 3815.5, which is entitled Ineligibility 00:01:50.300 --> 00:01:54.654 - of a Person Defeated in Primary Convention or Caucus. 00:01:55.234 --> 00:02:04.253 - that the allegation is that Mr. Davis is one who was defeated in a primary convention or caucus, and 00:02:04.253 --> 00:02:13.808 - therefore he is ineligible to be on the ballot for this fall. I think there is one with a second complaint 00:02:13.808 --> 00:02:22.916 - of history of disruptive behavior at voting locations. I'm not sure how that fits into where we're at 00:02:22.916 --> 00:02:24.702 - in today's process. 00:02:24.994 --> 00:02:31.748 - Um, but I guess those are kind of the, I think the primarily one that all of them complained about was 00:02:31.748 --> 00:02:38.437 - the violation of Indiana code 3815.5. So if you wanted to have a hearing on that and then potentially 00:02:38.437 --> 00:02:45.650 - a hearing on, uh, the failed, uh, the history of destructive behavior, voting locations. But my understanding 00:02:45.650 --> 00:02:48.798 - is that that kind of hearings already happened. 00:02:49.602 --> 00:02:55.776 - And so I'm not, I think that's kind of moot at this point. So I think the one issue before you is the 00:02:55.776 --> 00:03:02.010 - violation of the 3815.5. I think you could probably combine all the complaints into one complaint. Let 00:03:02.010 --> 00:03:08.063 - them either all come up and utilize the 10 minutes as a group. And then if, of course, if they need 00:03:08.063 --> 00:03:14.176 - more time and you wish to give it to them, you can. And then Mr. Davis would have the opportunity to 00:03:14.176 --> 00:03:18.110 - rebut that. And then he would get that same 10 minute guidelines 00:03:18.242 --> 00:03:24.189 - Of course, you guys can give him additional time, or you could treat each individual one as, I mean, 00:03:24.189 --> 00:03:30.077 - I hesitate to give that as an option, because once you decide the first one, you've kind of decided 00:03:30.077 --> 00:03:36.142 - them all. If it's all the same code and all that, I don't think the information, it would be much more 00:03:36.142 --> 00:03:42.148 - judicial economy if you had all of them give you why they think this is a violation, and then let him 00:03:42.148 --> 00:03:46.270 - respond, because it's all the same code section. Thank you. Go ahead. 00:03:46.466 --> 00:03:53.513 - Mr. Chair, I concur with the county attorney in that the complaints are similar. It does not seem to 00:03:53.513 --> 00:04:00.629 - be the best use of our time to address them individually. And I would make a motion that we hear them 00:04:00.629 --> 00:04:07.746 - as a combination of one complaint or that we hear it. We put them all together and hear them. Um, and 00:04:07.746 --> 00:04:13.118 - I also agree that the behavior issue was addressed in a separate hearing and 00:04:13.890 --> 00:04:21.566 - I am not interested in entertaining that piece today. I'll second that. Before we vote, do the- Excuse 00:04:21.566 --> 00:04:29.241 - me. It's not your turn yet. It's not your turn yet. When it's your turn, sir, I will call on you. This 00:04:29.241 --> 00:04:36.992 - is not your turn. Okay. I just want- What part of this is not your turn? Do you not understand? I would 00:04:36.992 --> 00:04:43.326 - like to make some specific requests before the hearing begins here. If I may please. 00:04:44.290 --> 00:04:52.017 - I think we're not to the point where the hearing is actually being conducted or start yet. We're determining 00:04:52.017 --> 00:04:59.247 - how operationally it's going to occur, whether it's going to be one complaint versus five complaints. 00:04:59.247 --> 00:05:06.406 - And I think that's the question before the board at this point. Where I was going to go before I was 00:05:06.406 --> 00:05:13.566 - interrupted was to ask the petitioners if they have issues with combining all five of them into one. 00:05:13.858 --> 00:05:25.808 - Mr. Tilford, yours is listed first. Can you find out for us and give us an answer from the other petitioners 00:05:25.808 --> 00:05:36.880 - if they have an issue with that? Yeah. Well, the ones that are here. OK, so then I will call for the 00:05:36.880 --> 00:05:42.910 - question then. Yes, ma'am. I would like to add that if 00:05:43.618 --> 00:05:52.205 - As a group, they need more than 10 minutes. I would like to, at that point, address the additional time. 00:05:52.205 --> 00:06:00.628 - OK. Thank you. OK. So the motion is to combine the five complaints into one. Those in favor, aye. Aye. 00:06:00.628 --> 00:06:09.378 - Excuse me. I would like to ask for some specific request before this motion is passed, because my specific 00:06:09.378 --> 00:06:12.894 - request affect the passing of this motion. 00:06:17.730 --> 00:06:25.447 - Sir, I'm kind of going to look toward you on this. I guess I would ask Mr. Davis if his comments are 00:06:25.447 --> 00:06:33.088 - concerning whether he believes there are separate questions before it, because essentially what the 00:06:33.088 --> 00:06:41.035 - board is voting on is whether there's really just one question before, i.e. whether this is a violation 00:06:41.035 --> 00:06:46.078 - of Indiana Code 3815.5, or do you think there is another question 00:06:46.178 --> 00:06:56.393 - that is the complainants are asking, because the complainants have indicated that this is what they're 00:06:56.393 --> 00:07:06.410 - asking. Yes, Councillor Cockerill, I do wish to clarify some issues surrounding the five challenges. 00:07:06.410 --> 00:07:16.030 - Before the presentation begins, I respectfully request clarification of the five can one filings 00:07:16.674 --> 00:07:27.315 - will be treated as separate filings presenting substantially the same legal issue rather than as five 00:07:27.315 --> 00:07:37.957 - cumulative presentations on the same issue. I also would like to request equal presentation time. The 00:07:37.957 --> 00:07:43.486 - board's resolution establishes its hearing procedure 00:07:44.610 --> 00:07:54.284 - including the order of presentation and opportunity for the candidates to respond. Because there are 00:07:54.284 --> 00:08:04.149 - five challengers, I respectfully request clarification concerning the amount of time of each time each 00:08:04.149 --> 00:08:14.398 - challenger will receive and the amount of time available to me to respond. If the challengers collectively 00:08:14.690 --> 00:08:24.567 - receive more than the time allocated to myself, the candidate, I respectfully request comparable additional 00:08:24.567 --> 00:08:33.986 - time so that I have a fair opportunity to address each challenge. I also, because the challengers will 00:08:33.986 --> 00:08:35.358 - present first, 00:08:36.002 --> 00:08:45.203 - I respectfully request a brief rebuttal opportunity after all five challengers have completed their 00:08:45.203 --> 00:08:54.404 - presentations limited to new factual or legal matters raised during their presentations. And I also 00:08:54.404 --> 00:09:03.882 - request that any factual assertion offered as testimony be made under oath consistent with the board's 00:09:03.882 --> 00:09:05.630 - adopted procedures 00:09:05.826 --> 00:09:15.245 - and that the documentary evidence offered by any party be identified and made a part of the record. 00:09:15.245 --> 00:09:25.324 - Because this matter concerns ballot eligibility and presents constitutional issues, I respectfully request 00:09:25.324 --> 00:09:34.366 - that the board issue a written decision setting forth its findings of fact, conclusions of law, 00:09:34.754 --> 00:09:46.606 - and reasons for its disposition. Also, I respectfully request that the minutes reflect that I have expressly 00:09:46.606 --> 00:09:57.589 - raised potential objections under the first and 14th amendments to the United States Constitution in 00:09:57.589 --> 00:10:04.222 - Article 2, Section 1 of the Indiana Constitution. Thank you. 00:10:04.418 --> 00:10:09.942 - And I guess my response to that is, at least for the first part, that's kind of what we're trying to 00:10:09.942 --> 00:10:15.629 - decide. I think what the motion is, is that the complainants as a group will have 10 minutes and pursue 00:10:15.629 --> 00:10:21.262 - it. And we will swear everybody in before they give testimony. That is clearly is going to happen. But 00:10:21.262 --> 00:10:27.004 - they will have 10 minutes, and then you will have 10 minutes to respond. I think what you're questioning 00:10:27.004 --> 00:10:30.942 - is, if they request from the board additional time after that, will you 00:10:31.202 --> 00:10:37.457 - also get that additional time, and that would be a board's decision. I mean, I would recommend to the 00:10:37.457 --> 00:10:43.651 - board that you do, right? I would have no issue with that. Right. And so I think. But what I want to 00:10:43.651 --> 00:10:49.906 - clarify is if they have 10 minutes that one person makes their presentation, you will get 10 minutes. 00:10:49.906 --> 00:10:56.161 - And then the following. And if we go beyond the 10, then you could have the same additional time. But 00:10:56.161 --> 00:10:59.166 - you don't get 50 because they have five of them. 00:10:59.586 --> 00:11:09.731 - If they use 10, you get 10. And I would like to clarify. So all five together, their total cumulative 00:11:09.731 --> 00:11:19.677 - time has to be within 10 minutes. Unless it is extended by the election board, which is part of the 00:11:19.677 --> 00:11:26.142 - procedures. Am I understanding this correctly, then if there are 00:11:26.274 --> 00:11:33.847 - If there are five challengers, they will all have two minutes each to make their presentation. I do 00:11:33.847 --> 00:11:42.101 - not believe that we are allocating amongst them their time. So if one of them wants to be their spokesperson 00:11:42.101 --> 00:11:47.326 - and talk for the full 10 minutes, I think that is fully appropriate. 00:11:47.522 --> 00:11:53.092 - But we do want to make sure that each of them gets the opportunity to make sure what their complaint 00:11:53.092 --> 00:11:58.717 - about is said. And if that requires more time, they can ask the election board and the election board 00:11:58.717 --> 00:12:04.452 - can choose to allow it or not, additional time. But as a group, they will have 10 minutes to, it's not, 00:12:04.452 --> 00:12:10.077 - we're not going to say you get two, you get two, you get two. They as a group have 10, just like your 00:12:10.077 --> 00:12:14.654 - response, you get the 10 minutes. And again, absent a request for additional time. 00:12:17.122 --> 00:12:28.087 - And where does this stand with my request for rebuttal should some new evidence be provided that is 00:12:28.087 --> 00:12:40.478 - not already a part of the packet record that? I guess that's part of your time, right, because a rebuttal occurs 00:12:40.610 --> 00:12:45.935 - after the other group had made a statement. So really, if there is a first rebuttal period, it will 00:12:45.935 --> 00:12:51.153 - begin with the complainants and then you will have an opportunity. I guess at this point in time, 00:12:51.153 --> 00:12:56.584 - if you have, if you listen to what they say and you have concerns about it and you run out of your 10 00:12:56.584 --> 00:13:01.962 - minutes, then you ask the election board, hey, can I have, I need to, I have some more information I 00:13:01.962 --> 00:13:07.393 - want to give, can I have another couple minutes or another X amount of time to give that information, 00:13:07.393 --> 00:13:09.310 - right? So since you go second, the, 00:13:11.330 --> 00:13:20.433 - the complaintants would have the ability, would have the need to do a rebuttal because they would not 00:13:20.433 --> 00:13:29.537 - have heard what you said when they were speaking. Does that make sense? I'm just trying to understand 00:13:29.537 --> 00:13:36.766 - where I'm able to address any new factual information that might be presented as 00:13:37.986 --> 00:13:47.085 - It seems more logical to me that I should be able to rebut that before I start my 10 minutes presentation. 00:13:47.085 --> 00:13:55.673 - And that is not how this is set up. So we'll just have to disagree on that. I actually think we have 00:13:55.673 --> 00:14:04.261 - a motion from the board. Do you guys need any more information to vote on that motion? Go ahead. The 00:14:04.261 --> 00:14:06.302 - only thing I wonder is, 00:14:06.498 --> 00:14:13.374 - Since we took the poll about them agreeing to the 10 minutes, is it possible to pull them to say, are 00:14:13.374 --> 00:14:20.452 - you planning to present any new evidence? Or are you sticking to this? Because if there is new evidence, 00:14:20.452 --> 00:14:27.327 - that may change how we feel. Well, I think if there's new evidence, I think that would be part of the 00:14:27.327 --> 00:14:34.540 - contemplation of, do we give Mr. Davis more time, right? I think if they bring in a bunch of new evidence, 00:14:34.540 --> 00:14:36.158 - then I think you should 00:14:36.738 --> 00:14:43.569 - listen to him and determine whether he needs more time. I think why don't we get to the point where 00:14:43.569 --> 00:14:50.059 - we're actually receiving evidence to determine if there's any new one. I would totally concur. 00:14:50.059 --> 00:14:56.891 - I would concur. I'm surmising the evidence. It's not going to be surprising. Correct. And if it is, 00:14:56.891 --> 00:15:04.542 - then we have to react, right? I just don't expect a whole lot of new stuff here. And that was exactly my point. 00:15:04.770 --> 00:15:10.855 - that I don't believe we're gonna have anything other than what they listed or they would have submitted 00:15:10.855 --> 00:15:16.706 - it for consideration. What could have changed from the time that these? And I guess from my stance, 00:15:16.706 --> 00:15:22.557 - if we have a conversation about whether there's any new evidence and then we get the evidence, then 00:15:22.557 --> 00:15:28.408 - are we just having the same conversation twice, right? And I think from a process perspective, that 00:15:28.408 --> 00:15:34.142 - is not efficient. If we allow additional time for the complainants, we will allow additional time 00:15:34.338 --> 00:15:42.832 - from Mr. Davis. So the motion is to combine all five. Should I actually call the roll? Clerk Brown? 00:15:42.832 --> 00:15:51.582 - Yes. Danny Shields? Yes. Penny Giddens? Yes. All right. So again, I asked Mr. Tilford, but whoever you 00:15:51.582 --> 00:16:00.501 - guys would choose to have to speak, please sign in and you would have 10 minutes if you want to allocate 00:16:00.501 --> 00:16:03.134 - that amongst different people. 00:16:03.842 --> 00:16:26.206 - We don't have a problem with that. Bear with me while I sign in. Haven't started yet. 00:16:35.906 --> 00:16:45.058 - before you begin, can I have anybody who is going to give any testimony or information today raise their 00:16:45.058 --> 00:16:53.862 - right hand? Do you swear or affirm under the penalties of perjury that the information you will give 00:16:53.862 --> 00:17:03.014 - at this hearing today is the truth to the best of your knowledge? I so swear. Yes, I so swear. I noticed 00:17:03.014 --> 00:17:04.670 - four people swear. 00:17:05.442 --> 00:17:16.593 - Ms. Moore, who's sitting next to you? Yes. D. Owens. Okay. I'm just making sure I have for the record 00:17:16.593 --> 00:17:27.964 - who all had their hands raised and swore. So it was D. Owens, Regina Moore, Mr. Tilford, and Mr. Davis. 00:17:27.964 --> 00:17:33.758 - Oh, and? Roberta Robbins. Are we ready? Are we good? 00:17:34.626 --> 00:17:42.382 - Mr. Selfert, at your convenience. Thank you, Mr. Shields, staff, and also Mr. Taylor. Do we need to 00:17:42.382 --> 00:17:50.604 - officially open the hearing? I believe you do. And I believe, TSD, can we make sure we have the 10 minute 00:17:50.604 --> 00:17:58.515 - clock on the screen so people can see it? Thank you. OK, then I will officially open the hearing. Now 00:17:58.515 --> 00:18:02.238 - start his 10 minutes. Go ahead, sir. Thank you. 00:18:03.202 --> 00:18:12.377 - As far as evidence, I, believe it or not, once in a while look through the CATS recordings of prior 00:18:12.377 --> 00:18:21.919 - meetings. I stumbled across the June 4th meeting in this room, and I still shudder at that. I empathize 00:18:21.919 --> 00:18:31.185 - with those people who had to be here at that time and some other times because of Mr. Taylor. When I 00:18:31.185 --> 00:18:32.286 - first heard 00:18:32.642 --> 00:18:40.258 - Davis, excuse me, Davis. When I first heard that he was, in spite of losing the earlier portion of the 00:18:40.258 --> 00:18:47.800 - election, considering or attempting to follow up and still be considered in the fall, I thought, what 00:18:47.800 --> 00:18:55.491 - can I do? I've been through elections before and failed. Democratic primary for the U.S. House, Indiana 00:18:55.491 --> 00:19:01.406 - Ninth District, when Shelley beat everybody, I came in like fourth out of five. 00:19:01.922 --> 00:19:09.298 - at a common courtesy of anything else, try to fight that. You can have some courtesy, some consideration 00:19:09.298 --> 00:19:16.885 - for others, and accept defeat. For me, to further this is a disservice not only to the individuals involved 00:19:16.885 --> 00:19:24.051 - here, not only within the voters here, but against the whole election process upon which this country 00:19:24.051 --> 00:19:30.654 - is founded. Again, my evidence is that meeting, which is on record and people can look at it, 00:19:31.170 --> 00:19:38.369 - The behavior exhibited during that, which was disruptive, is too mild a term. He interfered with the 00:19:38.369 --> 00:19:45.854 - process, and I want to put a stop to it if at all possible. Do I have any questions? So you're referring 00:19:45.854 --> 00:19:53.196 - to the fact that you feel like he was told about the sore loser law? I'm referring back primarily that 00:19:53.196 --> 00:20:00.894 - one meeting was recorded over and over and over again. They're trying to enforce normal decorum and timing. 00:20:00.994 --> 00:20:07.922 - And we had to wait for him to appear, had to wait for the show and tell, which is an embarrassment. 00:20:07.922 --> 00:20:14.989 - All these things were under the heading of disruptive, time consuming, and needless. You're trying to 00:20:14.989 --> 00:20:22.194 - be courteous. And again, I'm trying to project something here. But courtesy wasn't working during those 00:20:22.194 --> 00:20:28.222 - meetings. We have to do something else, more blunt. That's basically all I had to say. 00:20:28.642 --> 00:20:46.078 - Thank you. We still have eight minutes if someone wants to use it. Go ahead, just come up and sign in. 00:21:05.218 --> 00:21:11.982 - Hello, my name's Dee Owens, and I'll be very fast as I was on my piece of paper. I think allowing a 00:21:11.982 --> 00:21:18.881 - write-in candidate at this point who was a previous candidate is clearly in opposition to the law. We 00:21:18.881 --> 00:21:25.781 - just have to follow the law. That's all there is. Mr. Davis already lost. That's the law of the state 00:21:25.781 --> 00:21:33.086 - of Indiana. We need to follow the law. I think it's quite simple. That's all I have. Do you have questions? 00:21:34.882 --> 00:21:54.658 - Thank you. Any others? Well, no. OK, why don't we pause and there's seven minutes and 51 seconds left 00:21:54.658 --> 00:22:04.158 - if we need it. So then I guess we'll, Mr. Davis? 00:22:05.538 --> 00:22:16.488 - Davis, you have 10 minutes now for your presentation or rebuttal as whatever you wish to call it. May 00:22:16.488 --> 00:22:27.438 - I ask a question regarding the presentation of evidence during my rebuttal exhibits that I wish to be 00:22:27.438 --> 00:22:33.342 - introduced into the record? When I hand these items to 00:22:34.274 --> 00:22:44.425 - Mr. Cockerill or to you all the election board, I would like that time where I'm standing up and physically 00:22:44.425 --> 00:22:54.012 - handing items not to count against my 10 minutes. Are there things we're going to have to see at that 00:22:54.012 --> 00:22:59.934 - time? Yes. Or can we see them at the end of your presentation? 00:23:00.962 --> 00:23:09.923 - Because your presentations, we're not going to act on anything until your presentation is finished. 00:23:09.923 --> 00:23:19.063 - So is there any reason you couldn't give us your whatever at that point in time and we just deal with 00:23:19.063 --> 00:23:28.830 - it then before we vote? Yes. If I'm allowed to hand over my evidence or my exhibits following my 10 minutes, 00:23:29.154 --> 00:23:40.278 - That would work. I just want to make sure that my response, my proposed order, my candidate filing, 00:23:40.278 --> 00:23:51.847 - my reference to the packet materials, and my requested election results for the primary, for the clerk, 00:23:51.847 --> 00:23:57.854 - for the race of clerk to the Circuit Court of Monroe, 00:23:58.242 --> 00:24:08.631 - be able to be entered as exhibits and that you all, as board members, are able to take an appropriate 00:24:08.631 --> 00:24:18.817 - amount of time to consider all of these items as evidence in the whole. Again, you're the attorney, 00:24:18.817 --> 00:24:27.678 - Jeff. I think that the question is, can this election board rewrite Indiana state law? 00:24:28.450 --> 00:24:36.653 - And the answer is, no, we can't. I'm sure there are state laws that all three of us would like to rewrite. 00:24:36.653 --> 00:24:44.550 - We can't. That's what the legislature does. And you know that. And the question here is, this is what, 00:24:44.550 --> 00:24:52.370 - and we've reached out to the state election board. This is what they say Indiana codes states. And we 00:24:52.370 --> 00:24:56.510 - really have no desire to change what that law states. 00:24:56.930 --> 00:25:06.317 - So you have 10 minutes, make your presentation why, and I guess for lack of a better term, why we shouldn't 00:25:06.317 --> 00:25:15.877 - apply state law when it applies to you to the election. So you have 10 minutes to do that, sir. Respectfully, 00:25:15.877 --> 00:25:25.438 - I am not in any way saying that state law does not exist. His clock should be running right now. Restart. OK. 00:25:26.530 --> 00:25:35.878 - start your 10 minutes right now. And it was restarted for you. Okay, I need to be able to see the time 00:25:35.878 --> 00:25:45.135 - on my monitor. It's on the screen in front of you. It's the blue bar at the top of the screen. In the 00:25:45.135 --> 00:25:54.846 - upper left hand corner of your screen. It's right across the entire top. Okay. All right. Thank you. Okay. 00:26:00.706 --> 00:26:08.756 - Good morning members of the board. I appreciate the opportunity to address the five challenges to my 00:26:08.756 --> 00:26:17.125 - candidacy. I want to begin by making one thing clear. I accept the result of the May Democratic primary. 00:26:17.125 --> 00:26:25.175 - I participated in that primary and I did not receive the Democratic nomination. I am not asking this 00:26:25.175 --> 00:26:27.646 - board to overturn that result. 00:26:28.098 --> 00:26:37.804 - and I am not asking to be recognized as the Democratic nominee. I subsequently filed an independent 00:26:37.804 --> 00:26:47.996 - write-in candidate, candidacy for Monroe County Clerk in the November general election. The issue before 00:26:47.996 --> 00:26:56.926 - the board is therefore whether Indiana's sore loser statute may constitutionally be applied 00:26:57.154 --> 00:27:10.094 - to prevent me from participating in the general election altogether. The statute, I recognize the language 00:27:10.094 --> 00:27:23.275 - of Indiana code 3-8-1-5.5. It says that a person defeated in a primary is not eligible to become a candidate 00:27:23.275 --> 00:27:25.694 - for the same office 00:27:25.794 --> 00:27:34.831 - in the next general election. I also recognize that Indiana's 2026 Election Administrator's Manual says 00:27:34.831 --> 00:27:43.607 - that the statute applies to a defeated candidate who wants to run as a writing candidate. So I'm not 00:27:43.607 --> 00:27:49.950 - asking the board to pretend that the statute does not exist. My position 00:27:50.050 --> 00:27:58.213 - is that the board must consider whether applying that statute to my independent write-in candidacy is 00:27:58.213 --> 00:28:06.217 - consistent with the United States Constitution and the Indiana Constitution. The Democratic primary 00:28:06.217 --> 00:28:14.540 - and the November general election serve different functions. The primary determined who would represent 00:28:14.540 --> 00:28:18.622 - the Democratic party. I accept that determination. 00:28:18.882 --> 00:28:28.335 - But I am not seeking to represent the Democratic Party. I am seeking to participate in independently, 00:28:28.335 --> 00:28:38.344 - to participate independently in the general election. The Democratic Party's nominee remains the Democratic 00:28:38.344 --> 00:28:48.446 - Party's nominee. Nothing I'm asking this board to do changes that. The Supreme Court has held in Anderson v. 00:28:48.898 --> 00:28:59.737 - Celebreze or Celebreze, and Burdick v. Telushi, that election restrictions affecting political association 00:28:59.737 --> 00:29:09.968 - must be evaluated by considering the character and the magnitude of the burden on the candidates and 00:29:09.968 --> 00:29:17.566 - voters, and voters, and that the precise... Can we stop the clock, please? 00:29:18.210 --> 00:29:27.540 - Okay, that's only one bill. Okay, all right. Let's see. Let me begin again. The election restrictions 00:29:27.540 --> 00:29:36.688 - affecting political association must be evaluated by considering the character and magnitude of the 00:29:36.688 --> 00:29:46.110 - burden on candidates and voters and the precise governmental interest asserted to justify that burden. 00:29:46.914 --> 00:29:57.036 - That matters here because the burden imposed by Indiana code section 3-8-1-5.5 is not simply a filing 00:29:57.036 --> 00:30:07.058 - requirement. If the statute is applied to me, I cannot be a candidate for Monroe County Clerk in the 00:30:07.058 --> 00:30:14.302 - November general election at all. That affects my political association. 00:30:14.658 --> 00:30:22.854 - but it also affects voters who may wish to support an independent candidacy. I anticipate that the board 00:30:22.854 --> 00:30:30.894 - may consider Hero v. Lake County Election Board a Seventh Circuit decision. Hero is important, but the 00:30:30.894 --> 00:30:39.012 - factual distinction is critical. In Hero, the candidate was removed from the Republican primary ballot, 00:30:39.012 --> 00:30:43.774 - but he still had alternative routes to the general election. 00:30:44.482 --> 00:30:53.844 - The Seventh Circuit therefore characterized the burden as minor. Here, the challenged statute does something 00:30:53.844 --> 00:31:02.605 - different. It eliminates the general election candidacy itself. There's no alternative independent or 00:31:02.605 --> 00:31:05.182 - right in route left for me if 00:31:06.050 --> 00:31:15.028 - Indiana Code Section 3-8-1-5.5 is applied. That distinction is reinforced by the Indiana Supreme Court's 00:31:15.028 --> 00:31:23.750 - later discussion of Hero in Morales v. Rust. The Indiana Supreme Court emphasized the availability of 00:31:23.750 --> 00:31:32.301 - alternative routes to the general election ballot in conducting that a restriction was minor. Those 00:31:32.301 --> 00:31:35.550 - alternative routes are precisely what 00:31:36.162 --> 00:31:46.226 - Indiana Code Section 3-8-1-5.5 removes in this case. I recognize the state's legitimate interests. Indiana 00:31:46.226 --> 00:31:55.727 - has an interest in the integrity and finality of primary elections, but I accept the primary result. 00:31:55.727 --> 00:32:04.286 - Indiana has an interest in protecting political parties' ability to choose their nominees. 00:32:04.418 --> 00:32:12.225 - But I am not asking to be the Democratic nominee. Indiana has an interest in avoiding voter confusion. 00:32:12.225 --> 00:32:19.880 - But I am running as an independent write-in candidate, not as the Democratic nominee. Indiana has an 00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:24.958 - interest in orderly elections. But Indiana already has a statutory 00:32:25.090 --> 00:32:33.377 - statutory procedure governing right-end candidates. The question is therefore whether those interests 00:32:33.377 --> 00:32:41.827 - require the additional step of completely prohibiting my participation in the general election. Members 00:32:41.827 --> 00:32:50.115 - of the board, I respectfully ask that you deny the five challenges and allow my independent right-end 00:32:50.115 --> 00:32:51.902 - candidacy to proceed. 00:32:52.034 --> 00:33:00.766 - If the board concludes that Indiana Code 3-8-1-5.5 nevertheless requires my removal, 00:33:00.930 --> 00:33:09.124 - I respectfully request a written decision identifying the factual and legal basis for that conclusion. 00:33:09.124 --> 00:33:17.238 - I also respectfully request that the record expressly reflect that I have raised objections under the 00:33:17.238 --> 00:33:25.512 - first and 14th amendments to the United States Constitution and Article II and Section 1 of the Indiana 00:33:25.512 --> 00:33:30.046 - Constitution. I am not asking for this board to overturn 00:33:30.146 --> 00:33:43.743 - the Democratic primary. I am asking for the opportunity to participate independently in the November 00:33:43.743 --> 00:33:58.014 - general election. Thank you. Thank you. Again, I'm not the attorney. I think what you need to do now is I 00:33:59.810 --> 00:34:08.646 - is close the hearing and then deliberate amongst yourselves on what you wish to rule on. And then if 00:34:08.646 --> 00:34:18.093 - you can make that decision today, fine. I think if you want to acknowledge Mr. Davis's request of including 00:34:18.093 --> 00:34:26.841 - the, that he raise objections to the First and Fourth Amendment and under, was it Article 22 of the 00:34:26.841 --> 00:34:28.766 - Indiana Constitution? 00:34:29.506 --> 00:34:38.225 - Uh, Article two, section one of the Indiana Constitution and also what would would be the appropriate 00:34:38.225 --> 00:34:47.372 - time for me to turn in my exhibits? I think you could turn those in, although I guess. They were necessary 00:34:47.372 --> 00:34:56.006 - for the for the board's consideration, obviously, so would. I think if you if you handed them to me, 00:34:56.006 --> 00:34:57.630 - I would mark them. 00:34:57.890 --> 00:35:10.096 - that would be as exhibit one to how many are there? Well, I have I would like to make sure that everything 00:35:10.096 --> 00:35:21.617 - that is in the packet for this hearing be made part of the official record. I have a proposed I have 00:35:21.617 --> 00:35:26.750 - a response, a formal written response to the 00:35:26.978 --> 00:35:38.697 - To the challenges and I also have a proposed order. I also am submitting a copy of my actual independent 00:35:38.697 --> 00:35:49.970 - write-in filing and I have requested that the official results of the primary race for Monroe County 00:35:49.970 --> 00:35:55.550 - for clerk to the Circuit Court be introduced as a 00:35:55.650 --> 00:36:03.236 - evidence were an exhibit as well and my understanding is that Ms. Ferris has been able to locate that 00:36:03.236 --> 00:36:11.120 - and she can submit it to Mr. Councilor Cockerill. Those are certified results right? Yeah they've already 00:36:11.120 --> 00:36:18.706 - also been emailed to Cockerill as well. We could we can include the certified results of the election 00:36:18.706 --> 00:36:23.838 - as as an exhibit. All right then I can I again may I am I allowed to 00:36:24.098 --> 00:36:31.031 - in the hearing and then we deliberate. Is that what you suggest? I think you add the testimony. 00:36:31.031 --> 00:36:38.254 - I think Mr. Davis should hand me whatever exhibits he wants to be included. That's fine with me. So 00:36:38.254 --> 00:36:45.476 - that I can mark them and hand them to you so you can look at them before you make your decision. So 00:36:45.476 --> 00:36:51.326 - if you have those exhibits, I do. Just a point of clarification. I won't need to 00:36:52.130 --> 00:37:01.007 - The already in the official record will be the packet information, the letter from the for the hearing, 00:37:01.007 --> 00:37:09.627 - the complaints and also to the policies and procedures for this hearing. Those are also all of those 00:37:09.627 --> 00:37:18.504 - will be included in the record. Is that correct? I will have to see what's in the packet and we'll have 00:37:18.504 --> 00:37:21.150 - to see what the election board 00:37:21.506 --> 00:37:28.569 - But I guess what I need you to do is any new information I need to have, because then I have to go talk 00:37:28.569 --> 00:37:35.632 - to the complainants to make sure that they don't have any objections to these being entered as exhibits 00:37:35.632 --> 00:37:42.627 - to this hearing. And if they do, then we've got to talk about something. But if not, you'll get to see 00:37:42.627 --> 00:37:46.974 - them first. But I don't have them, so I can't show them to you. 00:38:07.330 --> 00:38:15.928 - You still have two minutes and 51 seconds. Seven minutes. Seven minutes. I'm sorry. You know, sometimes 00:38:15.928 --> 00:38:24.195 - you get arthritis. You can't read your own handwriting. Kylie will tell you mine wasn't good, but I 00:38:24.195 --> 00:38:32.958 - didn't have arthritis. They still have seven minutes and 51 seconds. And he has two minutes and, I think, 00:38:32.958 --> 00:38:36.926 - 15, if I remember correctly. Yeah, that's fine. 00:38:39.266 --> 00:38:54.255 - Go ahead. This is a conversation amongst the board. This is not talking right now to petitioners. It 00:38:54.255 --> 00:39:07.166 - seems to me that the issues raised are not issues for the election board to deal with. 00:39:07.906 --> 00:39:20.044 - The issues raised are whether or not this is the Indiana Code is a violation of the Constitution. That's 00:39:20.044 --> 00:39:32.414 - not our job to determine. Our job is to determine whether or not the statute applies. I'll let him finish. 00:39:44.674 --> 00:40:14.174 - Okay, so. Bonds, proposed order, and then why. I'm going to go short tonight. Thank you very much. Okay. 00:40:14.338 --> 00:40:26.887 - Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm okay with you, with the petitioners, having a little bit of time to look at this 00:40:26.887 --> 00:40:39.561 - before they respond. I assume you guys are. Yeah, I will declare the meeting in recess while they do 00:40:39.561 --> 00:40:41.694 - that. All right. 00:40:42.018 --> 00:40:53.066 - seen the exhibits, and I'm going to call the meeting back to order. Do any of the complaints want to 00:40:53.066 --> 00:41:00.286 - use any more of your seven minutes? You're free to head up there. 00:41:12.386 --> 00:41:20.150 - Hi, D. Owens again. Having heard the presentations and having reviewed the exhibits, I would like to 00:41:20.150 --> 00:41:27.915 - kindly say that this is the wrong venue for this argument, that this board has no authority over the 00:41:27.915 --> 00:41:35.602 - United States Constitution. And therefore, you can only rule, of course, on what's in front of you, 00:41:35.602 --> 00:41:41.214 - the law that's in front of you, and the evidence that's in front of you. 00:41:45.154 --> 00:41:56.917 - Anyone else? Well, ma'am, that is exactly the thought that I had that if we don't write the law, we 00:41:56.917 --> 00:42:08.915 - read the law and make decisions based upon what it says. It seems to me that if Mr. Davis wants to be 00:42:08.915 --> 00:42:13.502 - on the ballot as a write-in candidate, 00:42:14.114 --> 00:42:23.785 - He needs to seek injunctive relief that we can't offer. And if you wish to try, if you wish to file 00:42:23.785 --> 00:42:34.036 - suit somewhere to be put on the ballot, that same constitution you're talking about gives you that right. 00:42:34.036 --> 00:42:39.742 - But I'm going to make a motion to honor the challenges and 00:42:40.002 --> 00:42:48.474 - declare that Mr. Davis is not eligible to be a write-in candidate in the November general election. 00:42:48.474 --> 00:42:57.116 - Second. Excuse me. Sorry to interrupt, but I do have rebuttal time left. Two minutes. The hearing has 00:42:57.116 --> 00:43:04.910 - it, well. We just heard a rebuttal. You have two minutes. Two minutes and how many seconds? 00:43:04.910 --> 00:43:08.638 - What was that? Just give him three minutes. 00:43:15.234 --> 00:43:33.248 - Okay, again, I reserve the right to seek injunctive relief through the courts such that my candidacy 00:43:33.248 --> 00:43:40.382 - remains intact as a write-in candidate. 00:43:43.362 --> 00:43:55.698 - it sounds like your motion that is upcoming would need to specifically address that issue that I do 00:43:55.698 --> 00:44:08.897 - have the possibility to seek relief from the courts and that also the constitutional issues both federally 00:44:08.897 --> 00:44:13.214 - and the Indiana State Constitution 00:44:13.826 --> 00:44:26.461 - allow me to present those evidence and those facts. And I wish that everything that has, I wish to request 00:44:26.461 --> 00:44:38.270 - that findings of fact with your decision, written formal findings of fact be included in the record 00:44:39.394 --> 00:44:52.150 - such that I will have as full of record as possible to proceed with my court request for relief. 00:44:52.150 --> 00:45:05.301 - It's very, very important that my ability to present challenges is recognized by the board and that 00:45:05.301 --> 00:45:09.246 - these are preserved such that 00:45:10.658 --> 00:45:19.489 - One, such that I might be able to simplify and expedite my lawsuit, because time is of the essence. 00:45:19.489 --> 00:45:28.584 - The ballot is soon to be printed. I need to move this through the courts as soon as possible, starting 00:45:28.584 --> 00:45:38.033 - with the lower court, and then if necessary, appealing to the appellate level, and if necessary, appealing 00:45:38.033 --> 00:45:39.358 - to the Indiana 00:45:39.522 --> 00:45:53.917 - Supreme Court. Therefore, I request that your findings of fact be formally written expressing your objections 00:45:53.917 --> 00:46:07.134 - to my candidacy as write-in for the position of clerk to the Circuit Court of Monroe. Thank you. Mr. 00:46:07.134 --> 00:46:08.574 - Counselor. 00:46:09.090 --> 00:46:18.545 - Does the televised meeting not serve as evidence? I think it may or may not. I think the real easy solution 00:46:18.545 --> 00:46:27.562 - was when we create the order, we will add language that says, Mr. Davis was in the primary. Mr. Davis, 00:46:27.562 --> 00:46:36.492 - for clerk, Mr. Davis lost the primary, was not the leading vote getter from the primary, something in 00:46:36.492 --> 00:46:37.630 - the primary. 00:46:38.658 --> 00:46:45.011 - That is the factual basis for you to make the decision that he can't be on the ballot in November, right? 00:46:45.011 --> 00:46:51.423 - I mean, I think what Mr. Davis needs to show the court is it's clearly this is the issue that the decision 00:46:51.423 --> 00:46:57.596 - was based upon, and that would give him the ability to show, hey, this was kind of a cut and dry issue 00:46:57.596 --> 00:47:03.948 - from the election board's perspective. His perspective is that the statute's wrong, right? So that should 00:47:03.948 --> 00:47:06.046 - give him what he needs to proceed. 00:47:06.146 --> 00:47:14.863 - Precisely what he asked for is what I said, is that if you want to seek injunctive relief, go ahead, 00:47:14.863 --> 00:47:23.665 - but we're going to follow Indiana State law. And you cannot deny him the ability to do it? None of us 00:47:23.665 --> 00:47:32.468 - wish to do that. None of us have any desire to do that. And there will be minutes of the meeting will 00:47:32.468 --> 00:47:35.230 - also be available very quickly. 00:47:37.282 --> 00:47:47.909 - Were his three minutes up or did he have? Yes, yes, his three minutes were up. I had 10 seconds, actually. 00:47:47.909 --> 00:47:58.039 - And with that, I would like to say that formally reasoned out findings of fact and conclusions of law 00:47:58.039 --> 00:48:03.998 - be included in whatever order that you might propose today. 00:48:11.682 --> 00:48:19.095 - Okay, go ahead. I'm just saying we had a motion and a second on the table. Are you Mr. Chair? 00:48:19.095 --> 00:48:27.296 - Call the roll, please. Clerk Brown? Yes. Danny Shields? Yes. Penny Giddens? Yes. And I'm going to maybe 00:48:27.296 --> 00:48:35.655 - ask you something at the end. Sure. At the end of this meeting is that when we're done with this meeting, 00:48:35.655 --> 00:48:40.702 - if we could recess for maybe 20 minutes to half hour, I want to 00:48:41.250 --> 00:48:47.115 - get him the documentation he needs to move forward. And I think I'll just need a little bit of time 00:48:47.115 --> 00:48:53.097 - to get the order clear. You need us for that part of it? Well, I think you guys need to come back and 00:48:53.097 --> 00:48:59.020 - actually approve the final document. That's fine. I have no problem. I think it'll be quick. I think 00:48:59.020 --> 00:49:05.237 - I'm just going to need a few minutes. It looks like our next thing on the list is a resolution to approve 00:49:05.237 --> 00:49:10.046 - the absentee board workers. I believe that's absentee board workers for that one. 00:49:16.130 --> 00:49:23.035 - I will restart our board meeting. Thank you, officially. Ms. Kiley, do we have the workers we need to 00:49:23.035 --> 00:49:30.075 - appoint? Yes, so I actually emailed them to Mr. Cockrell as well. I am going to forward them on to you. 00:49:30.075 --> 00:49:36.912 - I know, Chrissy, you did CC Ms. Githens on the update to hers, but the one from Corey is the same as 00:49:36.912 --> 00:49:41.854 - the one that was presented at the last meeting. That has been seen, yes. 00:49:42.306 --> 00:49:49.641 - Then I'll make a motion that we approve and appoint those workers. I will second that motion. Discussion? 00:49:49.641 --> 00:49:56.699 - No discussion. Those in favor aye. I really please that so many are returning to work in the primary. 00:49:56.699 --> 00:50:03.688 - That was really. It's that fancy new room. All right then. All right then I will adjourn, excuse me, 00:50:03.688 --> 00:50:09.086 - not adjourn. I will recess the meeting to give Mr. Cockrell the time he needs 00:50:09.602 --> 00:50:17.299 - Ms. Kiley has a smile. Yes, ma'am. I was going to say, do you want to do roll call on the appointments? 00:50:17.299 --> 00:50:24.330 - If we need to, then we will. Go ahead. Just to make sure it's clear. That's fine. That's fine. 00:50:24.330 --> 00:50:31.805 - Clark Brown? Yes. Danny Shields? Yes. Penny Givens? Yes. OK, now I will recess the meeting while Mr. 00:50:31.805 --> 00:50:38.910 - Cockerill gets his paperwork that he needs. OK, so I'm going to call the meeting back to order. 00:50:39.842 --> 00:50:50.276 - We have a couple of corrections to this we would like. In the second paragraph at the bottom, there's 00:50:50.276 --> 00:51:01.017 - a unnecessary space between M and E in member. And number five on the one, two, three, fourth paragraph, 00:51:01.017 --> 00:51:08.894 - Nancy Goswami did not attend. Other than that, I think we're good with this. 00:51:10.658 --> 00:51:20.150 - So I think what you guys can do is go ahead and move to to exit to authorize the execution of that document 00:51:20.150 --> 00:51:29.466 - as your formal decision from this hearing. Excuse me. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I believe that I should 00:51:29.466 --> 00:51:39.134 - have the right to read the document and point out any inaccuracies before it's approved so that I can so that 00:51:39.874 --> 00:51:47.319 - so that it's recorded officially, those objections. So when I'm in court, it'll be easy for the courts 00:51:47.319 --> 00:51:54.619 - to have access to everything. This is our document, correct? Correct. So we decide what happens with 00:51:54.619 --> 00:52:02.281 - this document, correct? Correct. So if we make a motion to accept this document as written, that's within 00:52:02.281 --> 00:52:07.774 - our program, correct? Correct. I'm making that motion at this time. Second. 00:52:08.674 --> 00:52:15.190 - Would you call, well, she's not here right now. Kylie, would you call the roll? Nicole Brown. Yes. Danny 00:52:15.190 --> 00:52:21.396 - Shields. Yes. Penny Githens. Yes. Okay, then. I'll get those. Corrections. Two corrections made and 00:52:21.396 --> 00:52:27.726 - I'll bring you up something. And we'll sign those, yes. The signature page. Yeah, the signature page. 00:52:27.726 --> 00:52:34.366 - Excuse me, Councilor Cockerill, can you please bring up the copy of the corrected document for me as well? 00:52:40.802 --> 00:52:55.734 - Okay, I'd like it to be known that I haven't been able to review this document to check for any inaccuracies 00:52:55.734 --> 00:53:09.982 - that might limit my right to appeal. I'll make a motion. Will you adjourn? Second. Those in favor, aye. 00:53:10.498 --> 00:53:15.197 - Okay, we will see you. Do we have anything we have to do before the September meeting? No, next meeting 00:53:15.197 --> 00:53:17.502 - will be September. Thank you very much. Thank you.