- David Bush — — here. Harris-Lemons — — here. Tronin Red Randolph — — here. Scott Ferris
- — — here. Bertie Fields — — here. David Henry — — here.
- Jeff Morris here but I need to leave by six thirty. Joe Van Diemender here. Julie Thomas here. And our
- newest member Steve Bishop here. Okay. So we do have all nine members in our city plan commission non-voting
- member in person so we have one.
- So under administrative business the first item is our board appointments with the planning commission
- and other subcommittees for 2026. And I didn't know if we want to just take a minute to welcome Steve
- Bishop our non-voting member if you wanted to say something about yourself just like a minute or less
- to introduce yourself to the planning commission or if you wanted to. Okay. Yeah. So Steve Bishop I'm
- on the city planning commission starting November so excited to be part of this group.
- And then maybe we should all introduce ourselves as well. Maybe you can. Sure. Ron and Mike Randolph.
- Rural County Surveyor. 20 years in running at the Surveyor's Office and almost 10 years in June as County
- Surveyor. Scott Ferris. Retiree. Appointed by the County Commissioner.
- Joe Bending Director Assistant Director of Public Works for the City of Belmont. Rudy Fields retired
- geologist been on by a year. I'm Jeff Morris. I'm a Minerva County citizen as of about 20 years ago
- and I've been appointed by the county commissioners I think this is my third and fourth year.
- I'm Margaret Clemens. I've been appointed by the commissioners and I've been on the plan commission
- for about eight or nine years. I'm not I don't remember exactly. Dave Bush retired geologist as well.
- Monroe County residents and one year appointee. Billy Thomas County Commissioner. Did you see? See.
- Drew Meyer senior planner. I'm Jackie Jalen. We've been emailing the director of the department so well.
- So first item on our agenda is to go over our elections for this year. I did include in the packet our
- prior year so that people would have a reference point of what what committees or subcommittees they
- served on. Happy to provide any descriptions of any of the boards to anyone that might be new to one
- of them you want to go.
- It's also in as well as a procedure as well. So I think we can start by taking nominations for president
- and vice president. So I would like to make a nomination for a couple of new faces in leadership roles
- this year. I would like to nominate Mr. Perez for president and Mr. Bush for vice president. So I'm
- curious if both of you would be willing to accept that nomination.
- I second. Those nominations. Okay. So let's do a roll call on that. If it doesn't pass then we'll seek
- other nominations. Okay. This is a vote to nominate Scott Farris as President and David Bush as the
- Vice President for 2026. A vote yes is a vote to approve both of those members in that position. Margaret
- Clemens. Yes. John Enright-Randall. Yeah. Scott Farris. Yes.
- Rudy Fields. Yes. David Henry. Yes. Jeff Morris. Yes. JoVan Diemender. Yes. Julie Thomas. Yes.
- David Bush. Yes. Okay. Motion carries 9-0. Congratulations to our new President and Vice President.
- Thank you both for being able to serve in that role. We will move on now to the Executive Committee's
- Is anybody having nominations produced. I'll make that a nomination kind of based off of what we historically
- did if people aren't good with the slate nomination. Scott Behrs as president. David Henry as the council
- representative. Julie Thomas as our commissioner. And we had to one thing where we had to make sure
- we had like the representative from the other party which would be Scott Behrs.
- Honestly I'm going to walk back to my motion. I don't know who the fourth person would be. I'd like
- to continue to serve. Okay then Martyr Clemens. That would be my motion as a slate. Or. Executive committee.
- And I think David Bush was the alternate. And David Bush is the alternate. I'll accept that. So. That's
- a good idea. So Julie Thomas. David Henry. Martyr Clemens. Scott Farris.
- and Alternate David Bush. Okay do we have a second on that. Second. It's been moved and seconded to
- appoint the following members to the Executive Committee Scott Beres
- David Henry. Julie Thomas. Margaret Clements. And David Bush as the alternate. A vote yes is a vote
- to approve all those numbers for the exec committee. John Hennesta. Scott Ferris. Yes. Rudy Fields.
- Yes. David Henry. Yes. Jeff Morris. Yes. Joe Van Deventer. Yes. Julie Thomas. Yes. David Bush. Yes.
- Margaret Clements. Yes.
- Motion carries 9-0. Next up is our VCA appointee. Do we have any aye motions for that. I'd like to nominate
- Jeff Morris. Second. I motion to second. I accept the nomination. Thank you. It's so nice to have you
- on the VCA. You really do a great job. Thank you. It's been moved and seconded to nominate Jeff Morris as the
- Board of Zoning Appeals appointing to the Plan Commission or to the Board of Zoning Appeals. A vote
- yes is a vote to appoint Jeff Morris to the VCA for one-year term. Scott Farris. Yes. Shirley Fields.
- Yes. David Henry. Yes. Jeff Morris. Yes. Joe Van Deventer. Yes. Julie Thomas. Yes. David Bush. Yes.
- Mark Thomas. Yes.
- Found it on the right hand off. Yes. Okay. Motion carries 9-0. Okay. Next up is our City of Wilmington
- representative. Do we have any nominations. I'd like to nominate Jeff Morse. Second. If you're willing
- to serve. I would be willing to serve. Okay. Okay. So we have a motion and a second.
- All right it's been moved and seconded to have Jeff Morris attend the City of Wilmington Plan Commission
- meetings as a non-voting member. A vote yes is a vote to nominate Jeff. Bernie Fields. Yes. David Henry.
- Yes. Jeff Morris. Yes. Joe Van Deventer. Yes. Julie Thomas. Yes. David Bush. Yes. Mark Pummance. Yes.
- John Enright-Randolph.
- Yes. A motion is approved 9 to 0. Next up is Black Cooney. Do we have any nominations for that team.
- Oh is it possible that we keep the same members that Dave Bush Rudy Fields Jeff Morris Tronin Wright
- Randolph and Travis Thxton as the citizen member which I think we've already appointed him. We did.
- We did. Yeah. We could add Joe to that. We can add Joe to that. Yeah.
- Okay. Is Mr. Morris wanting to add another meeting. He'd be willing to drop from that. Oh so Joe. Joe
- would you be willing. Would you be willing Joe. Sure. Oh that'd be great. Awesome. So the same just
- switching Jeff. Jeff. Okay. Do we need a motion. It is a meeting that meets on Thursdays at 4 p.m. Correct.
- Once a month. Do we have a second.
- I'll sign that. Okay. And so we move then seconded to nominate Joe. David Bush. Rudy Field. Joe Vandeventer.
- John Edward Randolph. And keeps his member Travis Dixon. A vote yes is a vote to nominate all of those
- members. And Joe right. And Joe. And Joe. No. Jeff. Yeah my name. Take Jeff out. This is the only.
- Oh okay. Got it. David Henry. Yes.
- Jeff Morris. Yes. Joe Van Deewinder. Yes. Julie Thomas. Yes. David Bush. Yes. Mark Flemons. Yes. Ronan
- Miranda. Yes. Scott Fairs. Yes. Rudy Fields. Yes. Okay motion carries. Next up is our Indian policy
- committee.
- Looking for Bezikne and Alternative Foundation. Scott Ferris as the President is the Bezikne. Yes. Correct.
- Thank you for that reminder. Yes. And I would like to nominate Barbara Lucille O'Connor. She's continuity.
- Yes. I second that. Okay. It's been moved and seconded to nominate Scott Ferris by virtue of the position
- of President of the Planning Commission.
- And then Martyr Clements as Alternate Building and Mr. Farris is only approved 10. I vote yes and we
- vote to approve those two members on the MPO. Jeff Morris. Yes. JoLynn Davidson. Yes. Billy Thomas.
- Yes. David Bush. Yes. Martyr Clements. Yes. Donna Ann Wright-Randolph. Yes. Scott Farris. Yes.
- Bertie Fields. Yes.
- Yes. David Henry. Yes. Motion is approved. 9-0. Okay. Last up we have the Board of Committee. Do you
- have any nominations for that one. I would like to continue. I would like to continue. And I so if I
- might just recommend that all the people currently serving Julie Thomas Margaret Clemens Scott Fares
- Tronin Wright Randolph with David Henry as an alternate
- that we that would be the slate for the ORC. —Second. —Okay. It's been moved and seconded to keep
- the Ordinance Review Committee the same. As mentioned Julie Thomas. Mark Clements. Scott Farris.
- Trondheim-Wright Randolph with the alternate of Dave and Henry. A vote yes is a vote to approve. Joe
- Van Deventer. —Yes. —Julie Thomas. —Yes. —David Bush. —Yes. —Mark Clements. —Yes.
- —Trondheim-Wright Randolph.
- Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Motion is approved 9 to 0. Okay. That is the last one. Yeah. I was wondering
- did we do the introduction with Mr. Henry in virtual. I don't. No but I know Mr. Bishop in his beard.
- Good to see you here. Bumping into you here. Perfect. I just.
- heard your voice and then recall if you did the introduction. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that's fair. Well,
- for everybody, guys, I'm Mr. Bishop. Good to see him here. Thank you. Okay, I believe that was the last
- of the committee membership points. So thank you all for your willingness to serve on the committees.
- I do want to ask before we continue, Mr. Bishop, the vice president, do you want to take over or do
- you want to continue?
- I'm happy to continue. Let me let me take notes as much. You've got the momentum going. Okay.
- Thank you. I may ask you again for stability at 630. That's fine. I'll be happy to accept it. Okay.
- So the next item is a discussion of payment of board members under CDO Section 846 statute. Jackie.
- Okay. So in the packet you will see that we had a
- Basically a text amendment proposal before you just to provide some clarity to a question that we received
- and since we just did collections of boards we do have several committees and subcommittees. And as
- a reminder we pay land commission members up to three meetings per month which the council did appropriate
- funds for. So we're subject to that every year. But the question is whether
- We should clarify the meetings for which that payment can extend to, which we typically have not paid
- for the Metropolitan Planning Organization Policy Committee or the City of Washington Plan Commission
- meeting as a non-voting member. So the option one is to include those two meetings since by virtue of
- the Planning Commission appointment, you may be opted to serve for those two, or to just leave it to
- county meetings, which would essentially exclude
- the MPO meeting and the City Plan Commission meeting. Serving on the City Plan Commission for a number
- of years and I'd say close to six years. One I also want to say one thing that has been very effective
- is just attendance and being present. That's really kind of the one thing I would offer. I also I think
- I've had more than three meetings a month on all of it so I've exceeded the limit but
- I do feel like it's within, you know, a justification to pay for that representation. Some of those
- meetings, like this next one here, they may not attend brain almost until 11 o'clock. And you're probably
- having five hour meetings occasionally. And to be effective, being present is very important. So I think
- being compensated for that is,
- I'm at 100% support. And I would also say that with NDO, I think it's a very bold move. So that's where
- I stand on. I'm willing to set a motion or make a motion. And so I think that would be a great concern.
- Any other questions or comments? This funding is to defray the cost of travel, particularly.
- parking sometimes, but typically the travel that takes actually go to all of these locations and,
- you know, review plan before any petitions heard. It's really not, yes, it's by meeting, but it really,
- that's what it's for. So I'm fine with it either way. It's fine.
- Well, I just have to say something about this. I'm in favor of this. And with all the meetings I attend,
- which are usually in excess of three a month or four a month, when I went away in October and didn't
- attend a meeting and then to not receive a paycheck for it, it didn't sit so well with me. But that's
- OK. I understand. It's not like it's going to make or break me. So I think that.
- the city of Bloomington blind commission, especially with the, you know, the, I mean, I would imagine
- that travel is important for that too. You've got to go check off the site and the NPO certainly is
- in terms of research and printing and coordination and all of that. So I'd be in favor of the text amendment
- number one. So is that, and that's one you're in favor of, right?
- Yes that's a motion outside. Okay great. Yeah that is a motion. That's okay. It's been moved and seconded
- to go ahead and adopt the optional text limit number one. This would be an actual ordinance change but
- until that point I've been notified by legal that we can take it as a matter of policy until that point
- because it provides clarity depending on the majority vote.
- So I will take it as a text amendment. This also provides staff with clarity. Okay. A vote. The vote
- is on the table to adopt or to seek a text amendment to see through option one. John and Ray Mendoff.
- Yes. Scott Farris. This is what I had to do for last Friday's meeting. So what you're paying for for
- that fifty dollars is your parental cartridge.
- Yes. On my laser printer which is very good. Exactly. Yes. Rudy Field. Yes. David Henry. Yes. Jeff Morris.
- Yes. Joe Vandeventer. Yes. Julie Thomas. Yes. David Bush. Yes. Robert Clements. Yes. Okay. Motion carried
- 9-0. Was there a second.
- text them in on that too Jackie. There was just two options to choose between. Oh okay. So then chose
- option one. Okay so the second item was state legislation brief update. Okay so I'm just going to roll
- through these very quickly. I will put this online. This is my own notes so going through the
- latest version today of all the house and cent bills that are still alive and then have to deal with
- planning. We do have two that have to deal with data centers from the way I have read these different
- bills. And then also there is some information about nuclear facilities, firearm shooting ranges, which
- is a use in our CDO.
- So I'll point your attention to just maybe three of these and we won't go through all of them. So the
- first three are the ones I want to touch base on. First House Bill 1001. This has to do with by-right
- allowances of creating daddys and duplexes and single-family zones. It also impacts impact
- fees which we do not currently have and requires a new housing annual report that we must submit to
- the state among other things. So my update here is that we did I did go to the state house and provide
- testimony and feedback for clarity in the bill. There are several options that will allow us to opt
- out as a county. And so I intend to take that with the ordinance review committee next week.
- to discuss some of those opt-out options, and we've discussed with legal how we could do that in an
- efficient manner. It would likely go into effect in July, so we could get ahead of it now if we think
- that the bill is at its final stages, but we will have to wait for it to officially be approved, but
- we believe it will be in its relatively current form. The next one I wanna bring up
- as it impacts an item later down on our agenda I believe is that there's House Bill 1058 which is stated
- that annexation divided by railroad tracks which I believe also pertains to rail trails rails to trails
- that they satisfy continuity requirements if the territory on one side of the tracks is continuous to
- the municipality. So this would impact voluntary annexation.
- both in the town of Elstville and in the city of Bloomington. Since we do have railroads that go through
- those jurisdictions and often are county-zoned those could impact like I said those voluntary annexation
- petition moving ahead. I answered a question and maybe need more clarity. Like is one rail road parcel like.
- considered like contiguous. I guess what it's concerning because some of the railroads extend for miles
- and miles and sometimes they'll annex in the roads to then create a parcel that's contiguous and that's
- how we've got those like little flagship type looking areas of a city. So if the railroad is considered
- one parcel then anything that's contiguous could
- potentially be annexed? Well, I think that you get my question. I do. So like a soda straw, things like
- that. So I think that there's still requirements of a certain frontage or one eighth contiguity that
- you would have to evaluate along with this. What I'm thinking of is just a situation where you have,
- you know, city on one side, a railroad and county on the other side. That's kind of what I'm thinking
- they're trying to address, but my concern is they don't. And next thing you know, one,
- three miles stretch and then they start annexing at the back end of that which seems concerning and
- I want some clarity if that's their intent and make sure that if that's not their intent they don't
- accidentally leave little loopholes in there. If I had a visual it'd be a lot easier to follow along
- with what I'm saying but
- I'm pretty enmeshed in this and it's interesting that this varies from the highway because the railroad
- width is usually smaller than a highway width and highways don't necessarily interfere with contiguity.
- So this is interesting, but are there other aspects of this bill
- Um, do you know its current status? Has it still active? So that hasn't been at this point. There are
- other annexation bills though. Yes. So I only reviewed this one because it pertains. Yes. Okay. Great.
- Thank you. Sure. The next house bill was or is 1333 and it does a multitude of things.
- One is that it extends battery energy storage systems into a prior Senate-enrolled Act 425 that's now
- codified which creates energy production zones by right areas where people could put energy production
- facilities. But a concerning section within that which I talked to Legal today about in the Soil and
- Water District is that it somehow is adding a permitted use
- of a data center without having a public hearing variance special exception continued use conditional
- use or discretionary zoning action. And it says that it would be permitted on land zoned for agricultural
- and comprised of soil and capability classes 4 5 6 7 and 8.
- provided by the classification system of the USDA NRCS or Natural Resource Conservation Service. So
- I worked with Martha Miller this afternoon just to kind of get an idea of is there a map of these soil
- capability classes four through eight that I could pull into our GIS and overlay that with our agricultural
- zone. And the answer is no. You have to actually go to the NRCS map.
- you have to do an area of interest. And then this white striped area, for instance, you would be crying
- for a data center under this code, but not all of the land. So you have to basically do a tool to identify
- every property. You can't do it for the whole county. It's too much data. So if there's a four or higher,
- then it would be crying for a data center.
- So there is we have a soil survey from I believe the 1980s and we are able to find together with the
- help of someone from the NRCS who previously was there that we have a total of one hundred nineteen
- thousand eight hundred forty three acres categorized in these four to eight categories. But we didn't
- totally that obviously with our agricultural zoning that includes town of Elksville and City of Bloomington
- of course.
- So it's been a close vote on this one. At the third reading it was 56 yes to 43 no. So my question for
- the Planning Commission is if they would like me to keep following this if they would like me to potentially
- testify against this. An added question that I have is it actually opens the door for more than just
- data centers.
- It actually says that any development is a permitted use if it's zoned out in any one of these capability
- classes. But again we're just trying to with some of these get clarity and then provide comment to you.
- So if anyone would like me to continue to follow up on this and potentially testify I would like to
- hear that from you all. I need the support of that and that vote took place yesterday and
- Also, I think one other thing that could start kind of maybe bringing more potential awareness of impact
- is the water stakeholders input workshops that was circulated that talks about the executive order where
- basically they're trying to find where these water resources are and the consumers of such large volume of water
- Also, I don't think it's related to this bill, but the bill that we were discussing about battery storage
- and stuff that was Senator Koch, which is southern Monroe County and further, which basically incorporates
- a large portion of Lake Monroe. So I have a very large concern that, you know,
- If we don't have local rule here that we could be identified as a prime location. So whatever we can
- do to stay active and try to preserve that home rule and that local authority I think is key. Any other.
- comments for Jackie. I agree. But there's another House bill. I don't have the number in front of me
- that relates to IDEM approval needed for large water use projects. So it's strange to see these. Right.
- And then they're also striking a lot of IDEM to make nuclear. Right. Right. Right. It's going to be
- thrown for a loop after this. Yeah. OK.
- I think they have that in in ASIM's much later committee. I'll pull that up real quick. So I guess the
- question for the planning commission is at this point is anyone in opposition or planning to go up and
- testify. Please do. Yes please do. I will keep in touch especially with the president and vice president
- as well just to make sure we keep on task with that. Okay.
- And then the rest I want you to just read through but some of this will be coming through the plan commission
- is texting them it's already. We already were working on a lot of this and now it's coming to fruition
- because of the Senate and Roll Back. So it's sort of causing us to shift a bit but I think we're actually
- really well on top of some of these topics. Thank you. Big thanks to Drew and he's advising our O'Neill
- fellow who's been doing a lot of great research on this so I appreciate that.
- Who informed me today that he enjoys a lot of the research that he's been doing. So that's an extra
- bonus. Bill 277 is the one that talks about item losing its environmental regulations. Okay. Just to
- tie together. Okay.
- Then item the third item on the administrative meeting which we have a discussion regarding the subdivisions
- and performance guarantees. And basically I just want to bring this to everyone's attention. There was
- a lot of discussion with the past snowstorm that questions on you know why wasn't my road cloud or you
- know who's in charge of
- finishing out my development so it can be accepted into the county inventory. And so Lisa Ridge our
- director of our highway time this year as well. So basically I just want to touch base to say we do
- have it in our county development ordinance and it's also in our highway code to determine you know
- when a development especially subdivision is approved with public improvements those roadways
- remain private until such time that the developer completes those improvements and requests for acceptance
- into the inventory. Under our county development ordinance, one of the things we adopted was the idea
- that we would do a 10% inflation adjustment per annual year that they extend that time period.
- We have been tracking these and have been trying to bring these to the Plan Commission. A lot of these
- are slated to come back before you or come to the Plan Commission this year to reporting. It's very
- difficult work to get developers to finish because they will tell you, well, we're not done yet. We're
- not done with these lots. We haven't sold them. We don't want to finish the sidewalk. We don't want
- to finish the street trees.
- And as time goes by that infrastructure does age and so there's a lot of discussion that we've been
- having with the highway department about you know when is the time period when we you know start cashing
- these we don't renew these and this is also going to be before you all. You know if it's been 10-15
- years the discussion of do we cash these amounts and just start doing the work.
- But sometimes that amount that we have if not adjusted for inflation is simply not enough to do all
- the work. So we're still left with an issue of the money's been expended and the road's still private.
- So I wanted to bring this up. And also we do have a web map that our GIS team has provided us with.
- So I'll pull that open as well.
- And basically what it does is it's taking the public maintained roadways and it's just saying right
- now that if you have questions there's a offer for snow plowing. Yes. So there's a contractor list for
- snow plowing. Question about if there's you know how to reach the highway dispatch.
- But all the bold black lines here on the screen are county maintained roads. So ideally someone could
- pull open their address and see if their road is on, or if their house is on a public road or not. So
- I'll just do one for example. If you zoom in and label the subdivisions. Right.
- And if you click on them, so that they have a fat map link to that too. Right. So they would see beyond
- all buyers that they are on a county maintained road. Also, as you mentioned, you can get the flat easily
- available to you so you can see that you're in a subdivision. And ultimately, if you are, you know,
- seeing this and you're not getting your roads plowed, you might be able to even add a curiosity or you can
- put in the address, you can see that some of these roads are not black and bold. Some of them are because
- they're state roads or out of our jurisdiction. But to get to a good example, okay, so here's
- like Saddlebrook, which is not currently maintained. Parts of the lake, the lake condition was approved,
- so it will be in private completely. So all this is private.
- And we may not get complaints about this because they for instance the lakes they know it's private
- they platted it as private and they file it and people know the goal and it's not filed. But there are
- other subdivisions where there are other subdivisions where the developer has since stopped filing and
- just has walked away or is aging out.
- to be honest. So those are the people that are newly calling us to let us know that the developers stopped
- maintaining especially planning the roadways. So with that I'm sure take any questions or any comments.
- Is it is it worth it to mark the state roads that the state is in charge of. Is that like in a different color.
- you know we can identify that i mean i think it might be useful because if you're looking at the map
- right you know 440 is the bypass date yes it is you know what i mean well those lines were dashed i
- was like yeah it's kind of looking like roads so you changed into dash i think adding content would
- be helpful but it's what content should we add and i think major maybe a different color yeah even yeah
- okay thank you and then we can
- create a unique pop-up where it says this is a highway maintained by N-DOT and maybe try to get like
- some contact information on there so when people use it. People can contact N-DOT. They also have a
- web complaint system. Typically this would be used in a platform I think where people are not receiving
- plowing and I think that would be most typically subdivision. Yes.
- But there are, I've heard complaints about the state roads. So yeah. Okay. I asked the question of since
- you brought up the lakes and they currently have private roads and they don't have my knowledge of homeowners
- association. But if that is sold, you know, the current owner sells it to another
- management company. What happens then? I mean, is it just included in that? I mean, that's a mix. One
- of these misuse with condominiums where people actually own and then there are renters. So the renters
- pay in there with their fee with their rent.
- So the development just to the south, I believe Lisa and I were both contacted by somebody who lives
- on Cape Sedge, which is a single family development within a development that has a lot of multi-family
- large apartments. So what we found out from the developer was that they were maintaining basically the
- roads that access the multi-family, but not the single family. And that the developer had come to the
- single family homes and said, hey, pay us HOA dues and we will
- go ahead and file that room for you and they opted to not do that. So they, I don't know that they are
- in an HOA technically because they wanted to be separated from the apartments. So then they do not have
- filing services. It's not. Well, I just like to use this as an illustrative example that when we approve
- PUDs that this item needs to come up for discussion because I think it's fair to them.
- homeowners and the renters to know what they're getting into. Yeah. And every situation is unfortunately
- a little bit different. We did create with us a small one pager from planning's perspective that we
- could also put online. Basically just detailing you know if you're in a subdivision it's private until
- such time. But every situation is unique.
- kind of do the developer's workshops, do kind of some school and water outreach for education, and also
- kind of put together that HRA work to talk to folks about the responsibilities. I'll bring this up at
- our suite meeting for our school and water education department team, or something like that. It's a
- suite meeting. And maybe this is something we could add
- to those workshops and that just to bring more attention and awareness both to the developers and the
- HOAs. Just I think it would be a low hanging tree in 10 minutes to talk about it quick and more people
- being aware of kind of what their situation is. Just kind of a thought there because I think it was
- successful with our other efforts with the HOAs with kind of that workshop we put on or I shouldn't
- say the it was
- kind of a collaboration with the Highway Department in planning this very well there. So. Was this available
- before the storm. It was not. This was created today. This was created and finished up. You said that
- I didn't hear that but yeah. We have not published this yet so we're waiting for feedback like President
- Thomas said to label the state roads. Anything to make it clear or usable we'd like to do that first.
- There's also this planner just in case
- This isn't 100 percent inclusive. I believe it will be people you know working with appropriate people
- but we could take the opportunity because I think one of the offices that will be impacted the most
- will be a highway and kind of what your thoughts are making this more readily available because we've
- kind of kept it on the down low. So I had emailed with John Baker. And I mean we pointed out one of
- his references right off with $10.00
- And it's been a while since they annexed this piece of McNeely Street. It still is not shown here as
- annexed. And John said, well, that's a problem that's being worked on in the Auditor's Office, but this
- didn't happen this year. So it's kind of like that's still putting out information, but it's not correct.
- As you can see, McNeely goes county, town, county, town.
- But one of the pieces in there is that's been asked by the town. It still shows it's ours,
- but it's not. So I don't know how long it takes to work out those issues. Anything I have is public.
- I don't care. And again, you have a disclaimer on there. I'm fine with it as long as it's subject to
- everything.
- We'd be working with the net and make clear that all the information is being moved over from photograph
- to the S3. And then also we looked at an old layer called county maintain roads and there was a couple
- of areas where the segments were not 100 percent like one was longer than the other. So I think this
- is a way we can continue to identify those make sure that they're identified correctly. But I guess
- we'll just move on.
- probably 15 years ago and created it in my old position. But it's just there's so many highway layers
- doing around there on our geo database or our GIS online, and nothing's matching. And if we would all
- use one layer, then it would work. One schema, one layer to rule them all. But yeah, based off of feedback
- here, we're in no rush to put this out here and cause confusion.
- Sorry, Julie. Go ahead. So this reason to issue, I mean, and I think it would be a good idea for highway
- to sit down and go through this. Lynette and them are working great. A lot of this. Perfect.
- A lot of it. So it's close. Yeah. And there are some instances I know where you've made a swap with
- the city or the town where. So we do have an agreement with the town of Ellensville too. Right. He's
- worked with them on
- Okay, you have sectioned the ratlip and they will continue to annex. So instead of making our plow go
- up here, so we sat with them, we drew out a map around the whole town of Ellipsville, what road made
- sense for them to plow, what made sense for us to plow, and then it's worked out really well. Our plow,
- they're not given double duty, and we might do a whole road of theirs, they might do a whole road of
- ours, but it works for the row. Right, exactly.
- of getting somebody there. So that's worked out really well. So, but I don't know how to reflect that
- on this map. Because if somebody has an issue and they live on a road that's in the town, but it's county
- maintained, how will they know that? And so there should be some way to identify that on the map. And
- I know that those agreements are everywhere and all over. That could be something that's pretty easy
- because we haven't, when we created that, we mapped it.
- Yeah. But I think it would be helpful to have that if this is a public facing platform. The other thing
- is all of this just highlights to me the fact that we have no idea if filing is such an issue. What
- about the retention funds that these major ways are supposed to be maintained? I mean, my God, that
- scares the heck out of me because this is just
- sort of the visible when it snows problem, but there are others embedded in here that have nothing to
- do with the map that we don't know about. And so it really worries me that because of visible piling
- became an issue, but really there are many here. And I think ORC should look at
- whether we do any more private roads, whether how we do these retention ponds, who maintains them, how
- are they maintained, who pays for it. I think we need to take sort of a 10,000 foot view of these issues
- and think about what we want to do in the future because, you know, planning has done amazing work,
- worked with highway and building and set up this situation where we have
- the inflation-based bond system. Thank goodness. But- And the planning commission also. Yeah, yeah,
- yeah. The planning commission has done wonderful work. Yeah, for sure. This is all part of that.
- And kudos. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That has helped a lot, but there are still problems.
- And anything we do only impacts the future. It doesn't impact the past. So we still have things to work
- through with a lot of these developers.
- So I bring up a really good point and it's I wish there was an easy answer but the private the private
- road issue and snow plowing did become a huge problem. But one road. We have a ton of this situation
- out there everywhere. Yeah. And it's because that developer quit doing it. We do have other developers
- that are still agreeing to their commitment of bringing a subdivision to your board.
- You would prove it. They agreed to those stipulations. We're going to maintain it and we're going to
- file it until you take it over. There are developers committing to that, but there's so much more that
- they are failing at. We have, I have been run a system this week. We probably have over 500 and some
- driveway permit applications open and open go. The reason for that is because when a developer puts
- in their driveway, it will not go back in and follow the process
- ask for that final inspection. So it can't be closed in the system. So it's just all little things build
- up. They don't finish the sidewalks. They don't finish the trees. And it just, and then you compound
- it to this issue here of a safety issue for somebody on the street that ended up with 15 inches of snow.
- And I do sympathize with the people. Is it the realtors that's not telling them? Probably so.
- I had a realtor. So we've been working
- really hard with Gentry East on one of their bases. I mean, Jackie and Ben and our office spent hours
- and hours meeting with the HOA, blocking the project, creating all the bid documents for them to be
- able to bid it out, get some work done. BNB got the job, did a great job. There's just a few little
- tie-ins to finish. They did not go back and make them
- rip the road out and down to today's specs. That was stated last week at a commissioner meeting. That
- did not happen. We are not requesting that, but we are working hand in hand with that HOA to get those
- roads accepted. And that's, we've gone planning and highway, my staff, not necessarily me, have gone
- way and beyond, way above and on time on getting this approved. And it's,
- It's a, it is a problem. I think the inflation has helped a lot, but there's so many old ones still
- sitting there that is a problem. And on the Gentry East, I had a realtor call me last year and said,
- I hear that this section of this road is private. I said, that is correct. Why not? I doubt the buyer
- is going to buy. Well, that's why you're not telling them that these roads are private. The property
- owners have paid for that.
- They're the ones that suffer. And then we take the brunt of it because we're the bad people that won't
- file it. Even though in the future it's going to be public, how do you express that to a potential buyer?
- And it's not in their covenant. It's not in their deed. How do you make a developer accountable? I might
- say you guys aren't alone. Well, the city had the same issues. And a lot of times it's the same developer.
- And they are getting older.
- Yeah. Make a list and just have it behind it. I would say Lisa and I have the same list. Yeah. And some
- of the old ones, like I think the lakes area is one of the old APHA ones that, you know, the city develops
- and nothing against the city. That's that was the policy. Right. Sure. And then they don't take the
- roads because it's in the county. Right. So then again, the property owners suffer on that. So,
- It's a huge issue and I know like I said and Jackie's done great on a lot of it and we were still working
- with a lot of developers and we have taken in a lot of development that were problems out there. Emerald
- Trace they finally got that bit out and we accepted those rights as soon as it was fixed. So we are
- working with them. It's just there's it's problems. Yeah it is problems. And then we love.
- Yeah I can have my hand up for a bit and I appreciate the good conversation. So maybe a different
- perspective. So land use policy is what drives hazards into disasters right. So when we build in the
- environment and exacerbate
- natural hazards like snow that's where we end up with situations like this. A lot of what we do here
- on the the forward end in terms of retention ponds environmental planning like that's part of good mitigation
- right so I hear that and I think those are worth exploring. But the overriding challenge for me is what
- we do when we hit a state of emergency right. So regardless of the work of this commission
- When we hit a place where public safety is at risk and it's just becomes finger pointing between developers
- county whoever you know I think we need to acknowledge how our choices here are setting us up for potential
- risk for people in the community. That's what I did say at the commissioner's meeting and I'm saying
- it here as well. So I think for me you know one aspect of this is we really do need to understand how
- the land use policy is impacting the county's emergency management plan.
- And if there are gaps like this that have been exposed where we all we have is sympathy for people that
- are caught in a situation where a road has not been taken into inventory and we just cross our fingers
- that an individual doesn't end up dying because emergency service can't get in there. I need I think
- we need to put a little more focus on this. And it might be rare but it's something that could happen.
- So to the extent that this body
- works with you know maybe this is putting a Planning Commission member back into the EMAC so that they
- can bring these issues to the Emergency Management Planning for the county. We need to do that. I also
- think at this point understanding a playbook or a desk reference where decision makers can reference
- what their powers are and at what moment and this is really from Mr. Schilling is important here because
- there are statutory things we could be doing that
- lift some of these ordinances locally to to say look this is the exception because we're trying to make
- sure people don't die in these neighborhoods needs to be acknowledged. I don't think we're going to
- handle that today but that's what I'd like to see handled in ordinance review. My only other thought
- in terms of something to be quickly done is is it possible to get the layer of the bus routes from MCC-SC
- superimposed on this so we can better understand what roads
- were impacted because I mean part of the reason why the schools were closed for so many days is that
- they couldn't get into some of these neighborhoods. And if it is developer responsibility boy I'd like
- folks to know if they're upset if their kids are home on day 3 who to call on that one. So it's not
- us right. But there's some thoughts I have that I wanted to add to this important discussion. I wonder
- if like the bus routes and the snow flow routes would be more internal than that. Yeah. So we could
- look at that and overlay that and then.
- Well and you know and Jackie not to betray our conversation earlier but you know if if the MCCSE is
- not to be driving through private roads and they are then we need to know why there are bus stops in
- neighborhoods that maybe shouldn't be and where those kids should be. If it is to walk out to the county
- road I really don't understand this part of it. But there seems to be some confusion there too right.
- Thank you Mr. Henry. I know Mr. Farris has a comment also and unfortunately I need to leave so Mr. Bush
- could you take over. Sure. Thank you. I want to before I leave I want to thank Ms. Ritchie and Mr. DeVane
- for all the hard work that your team has put in. So. Thanks Joe. Thank you. I want to say thank you
- for your service. Oh you're welcome. Sorry I have to leave early. I'll watch the recording tomorrow.
- So I'm going to bring up the the elephant in the room.
- And so I'm playing kind of a devil's advocate here. And the issue is compliance and the and our and
- our CDO. And we do have compliance measures in place. We've already talked about them. I've read some
- I've read some things over the last week or so that have not been very positive. Comments have not been
- very positive about this body.
- Meaning that maybe our ordinance is not as granular as it should be. My assessment is is that I think
- over the last year with the things that have been brought forward from highway into planning we have
- done our due diligence to the best job we possibly can to resolve these developers particularly developers
- who have issues with compliance. That's plus. There's a lot more work to be done.
- I mean we've covered the number of 60 60 developments and there's probably more granularity there that
- we don't know about. But we're working on it. The question I have is and it's really for this body to
- acknowledge is our is our CDO as it's written right now adequate with respect to answering the compliance
- issues. I I believe it is. And if it's not then
- again devil's advocate then those are the things we need to take and highlight as a disconnect and work
- towards solving. The second point I want to bring up is for those of us who used to be in the resources
- business there's such thing as called an unfunded mandate. And I saw it at the government level. This
- is when a body requires you to do something but don't throw any money at it. And I think that Lisa can
- explain to you where we get the funding for the
- for the highway department, but it doesn't come from the county council. And so if in fact you're going
- to put a requirement on the table to go out and plow every private drive road in the entire county,
- I have one incidentally, I know you have one incidentally, the cost for doing that is going to be outrageous.
- That is an unfunded mandate. I understand the safety issue,
- I also understand that it's it's it's the developers and others responsibility to tell people and those
- homeowners that this is still private property and that roadway is not in the inventory. So the two
- items is the CDO as written from a compliance standpoint meet meet a satisfactory solution. And the
- other point is just you all should note an unfunded mandate.
- is no requirement at all because there's no money against it. I'd like to chime in here because even
- though the Planning Commission has been maligned in public comments by politicians recently, I feel
- as though we've taken great strides as far as making corrective action. That it was this body who suggested to
- to the planning department and the highway that we create some kind of enforcement mechanism for some
- safety if the developer walks away. And that's how we decided on the adjustment for inflation so that
- we could actually finish the roads. And it's creating some solutions. Now, I also have to commend Lisa
- and the legal department, the highway department and the legal department were proactively going to
- those, some of those neighborhoods. I don't know if you went to all of them, but I know you went to
- more than one and you informed them a big storm is coming. Here's the list of contractors you can call.
- You don't have a homeowner's association, but you guys, this is your solution. You can get on the phone
- and hire your own contractor. And I,
- That is about as much responsibility as we can take in a situation like this. And I commend you for
- doing that proactive move. I just had never imagined that I reached out to you about the issue, that
- I would have learned that you and County Legal had done so much work in terms of trying to get the issue
- resolved on behalf of the homeowners,
- I'm just really so impressed with what you've done and how you're handling it. And a lot of
- these subdivisions are in litigation. And I commend planning, highway, legal for sticking up on behalf
- of the homeowners. And we can't talk about it because of that. But I just think that the homeowner,
- it couldn't be better served than what you've done given our constraints.
- I really really thank you for that. I think you've done a remarkable job. So thank you. You're welcome.
- I just think there's a maybe misunderstanding about I hear all that and yeah but I think there's
- a misunderstanding about where the Planning Commission's responsibility ends and where a public safety
- activity begins. And I hear Colonel Ferris' comment I think you know you're making sense. Unfunded mandates
- an interesting comment. You know when we have a state of emergency declared
- at the White House and then in Indianapolis and then here I would I'm presuming you know because that's
- the way it works is that there would be funds available to seek for reimbursement for activity. So this
- requires really good planning at the front end and I don't mean planned commission planning I mean whole
- of government planning.
- to understand what the roles and responsibilities are. I don't disagree with anything Dr. Clemens said
- there. People performed in their roles as they understand them and did well at it as they understand
- them. But these are not decisions that the plan commission is the in the driver's seat to make in a
- time of calamity in these neighborhoods. It's a higher order conversation that involves
- Board of Commissioners Emergency Management. It does involve highway as a function in that plan and
- what your responsibilities are. But but the question if the CDO is what is creating an impasse where
- we have a conflict with public safety that's the question I'm drilling into. So I don't know if these
- are like parallel conversations but I don't think they're you know there's maligning going on. There's
- public critique of.
- Government which is the most transparent thing we can do. So I my only comment on this is we need to
- elevate it elevate it to the decision makers that actually have authority during times of crisis and
- not try to help like ask people especially around the table to try to solve that without the expertise.
- I observed that there were people caught in the gaps there and that's and that was worthy of critique
- and a public comment by the citizens of the community. And maybe we're talking past each other right.
- I think we've belabored it from my end enough this evening. Thank you.
- I think we're going to just chime in to say I'm sorry I'm going to have a technical difficulty in about
- two minutes so I need to pause the audio for a second while I transfer to a different computer and then
- I have to restart this one. So apologies I won't. We're going to go on mute though for those of you
- online for a second. It'll digitally be. Yeah we can take like a three minute recess I would appreciate
- it. All right. Thank you.
- Can I have everybody's attention please. I think our our technological break is over. So Mr. Bush. Yes.
- Then I'm fingers crossed we can move on to other portions of the business here tonight. If I may. So
- personally I think we're kind of moving
- A little outside of the planning commission's ability and purview, but I do think a lot of things are
- entangled. And I do think we do have a role. I think that role is serving as the conduit to bring in
- the other parties that are necessary to address this as a larger matter. And one of those would be the
- highway department and looking at their highway ordinance document and looking at ours. And is there
- anything that we're asking
- developers to do before you can accept roads in the inventory. And so those are areas we really need
- to vet and discuss, and we could do that at the ORC, and I'll wait for people to come together. That
- is my only thought on the larger issue. Is there any way that we can lower the bar to add roads to the
- inventory, but still get all of what our intent is? And if there's not, then there's not. But what I'm
- saying is,
- We're in a conversation right now where we have to have all these parties together to discuss it to
- be effective unless we look at more strenuous things which somewhat concerns me because you know I don't
- want to necessarily prevent folks from managing private roads either. So let's just.
- kind of my thoughts on it is, you know, this conversation is a lot larger than the Planning Commission.
- Also back to the other like buyer beware comments. I do think we could continue, but again, we'd have
- to do it in collaboration with other departments to put information out there.
- like our BMP best management practices with stormwater so someone buys a piece of property and they
- have some responsibility to maintain that infrastructure that we have like a little raindrop on our
- GIS. Now does that mean the realtor is going to disclose that. Not too sure but a lot of people go to
- these platforms to look at properties before purchasing. We could try to do a better way identifying
- you know private roads versus maintaining roads from.
- more of awareness and data being available for people that might make future purchases. I think those
- are real areas that we can actually make impacts. But again a lot of those are a little outside of the
- purview of the planning mission. So that's my thoughts on it. And I would love to kind of be able to
- address these very incremental as the other players come and suggest hey
- we're able to change this this could maybe impact that and maybe that could help. But if not then you
- know we're kind of where we're at and the other discussions are going to be more like are we going to
- allow private drives. And I personally I don't know what the state says about that but I don't want
- to go in a direction that causes more oner onerous burden or makes our ordinance even more strenuous
- personally.
- And from there, I'm going to stop on them. Again, I was very optimistic and hopeful we can move on to
- the other business at hand because it's, again, in my opinion, it is a lot more than just the planning
- commission, but we do have the active role. So thank you. Yeah. The only thing I can add to that is
- I think by lowering the bar is what got us into the math area. Right, right. I'm saying where we can
- make sure that we get what we wanted. But if there was anything, I would need
- your expertise and your team to identify that. And then Jackie worked with like our ordinances and if
- there are ways, then there are, I'm not going to say there are, but no, I don't want to do anything
- that's going to pose back in this situation or exacerbate it. But my point being is this is outside
- of the purview of the planning commission, because you're working off of your own ordinance and document.
- I get that. But you,
- The board makes the decisions here. The board approves newer subdivisions when we still have old subdivisions
- with that same developer that did not do the process correctly. We're dealing with new subdivisions
- right now being built today where that developers are not following the process building roads without
- permits putting in driveways without permits. I totally agree and see it.
- we're not going to accept again. My point is, is this your ordinance that deems it appropriate to take
- into the county inventory after the commissioner support? And if there's ways, sure, I'm not saying
- there is, I'm not an expert on that document. What I'm saying is I just feel like we're moving a little past what
- we can look at from a zoning or a county ordinance and a comprehensive plan of what kind of choices
- we make. Then again also need the adoption of the commissioner. So I'm going to just leave it there.
- But those are my thoughts on is we have to work together to try to address any of this or. I think we've
- already addressed it. There is our specs. Yeah. Really good bill road. And those specs were updated in 2020.
- and how those specs were originated was four or five local engineering firms coming together with our
- county's engineer, coming up with good solutions on how that room should be built. And everyone agreed
- to that. And those are the engineering firms that are developing a subdivision. So they're not having
- an issue with how they're being built or anything. It's just the developers wanting to come in, sell
- their lots and get out. I totally understand that.
- mentioning that you're the expert that needs to work with Jackie if there is any work and if there's
- not that's fine. I'm saying like sit in the office and look at her notes. We set this 40 estates last
- summer because they were they were in all that we that the planning department highway had all of our
- notes with that developer everything that's gone wrong. The reason why we can't accept it and they
- could not believe it because they were not told any of that. I don't have a side here. That's my whole
- thing is, is if you don't see anything that we're asking from a plan commission standpoint, that's too
- much, then that's fine. But that's my point is like, we need to make sure you're getting what is needed
- in a development and planning is, and those ordinance need to work together. And if they do,
- that's great. I'm not saying let's go out here
- do all of what you have been dealing with and everyone else with some of kind of the public feedback.
- But my point being is like I really leave it to your department and planning department if you notice
- anything that planning might be asking too much for and it could potentially help other folks get into
- the inventory. But if that's not the case then that's not the case and I'll leave it alone. But my whole
- point is is like we're not going to solve this problem.
- at the planned commission state but we do have a role in it. Barbi. Yes. I just want to reflect on you
- know my long years serving on this body. I don't know if County Legal is present or not. They are.
- But, you know, when these PUDs come before us and they come in and they ask for exceptions to the plan,
- and they ask to make the road narrower and the driveway less deep, and suddenly you have minivans that
- wear the back fenders hanging over the street, you know, and, you know, we try to work with the developer.
- We tried to stick to our values and we always tried to coordinate with County Highway whether or not
- this is acceptable and whether or not the exception is too, it makes the road too narrow for the pows
- to get in. And County Legal has reminded us that we cannot hold against a developer his prior past poor
- performance because that's a state law.
- That's a state statute. If I'm wrong, county legal, please let me know. But Rudy had an idea earlier,
- and I don't know, maybe you could state that. Well, I, you know, it kind of goes to Colonel Farris'
- thing about the CDO. Does it have the teeth to be able to hold a developer personally responsible?
- I, that's a, it's a good question for legal. And I think that we've done everything we can do in the
- CEO, but we can ask legal for an opinion on that in the future. In the private sector, this is a lot
- of government. You know, in the private sector, I do business with you. You don't do what you do.
- I sue you. And, you know, and if you, and I don't let you hide behind an LLC or anything else, I get
- personal liability to be able to go after you.
- So to answer my compliance point, that's exactly what I would recommend we do is go to legal and say,
- take a look at this and see if we've done everything. I just don't think we can do more. I don't think
- we can either, but we can always ask the question. Can you take that for action, Jackie? Yeah, sort
- of a housekeeping review. I just want to make sure the CDO is doing what the CDO needs to do in situations
- like this. That's all. All right. And I don't want any misinformation to get out there, so I'd rather
- we just not
- discuss this anymore at this point if we could. I have one procedural question to ask. I noticed that
- Steve had his Mr. Bishop had his hand raised earlier. Is he allowed to speak at this point? Yeah. Would
- you like to comment? Yeah. So coming back to this list, one question and this can be my naivety of being
- new to this group. Have any of these letters of credit ever been called?
- Was there an expense of calling that letter of credit. No. Well then staff time to go and collect it.
- Okay. Because there can be an origination charge when you enact a letter of credit because you're originating
- a new loan at that point. So if you were to start calling these is there going to be an extra cost to
- the county or whatever body. I guess has that been taken into account.
- Yeah. So each one has its own terms when it comes in. But typically we require it to be within a bank
- within 60 miles. We don't accept performance bonds which I think have some of those clauses in them.
- We've gotten a lot of pushback. Even most recently somebody who is outright refusing to give me a letter
- of credit cashier's check and it's a non-starter. So I've probably cashed three in the last
- two years and there's been an origination clause, but you have to remember that the cost to, you know,
- go cash it, to keep track of this, to cash it, to then bid it, to then inspect it. So there's, there's
- what we need in between the codes is there, but we have to formally take an approved plan document,
- go on the ground, do all the striping, do all the visual, okay, this is off, we're doing the measurements
- across, so if it's off here,
- documenting, bidding, finding out we don't have enough money, doing what we can based on a prioritization
- schedule. I mean, you're already 40 hours, 50, 60, 70 hours of staff time in, which we take and do when
- we have done first entries. And it's just a huge undertaking to do all these at once. Of course,
- we can't. So it's not in our favorite catch.
- It really is. It's for the developer to finish it because we don't want it to also look like well if
- I don't finish the accounting they'll just do it for me. It means they're a better tool then than that
- because it sounds like this is an undue burden unto you not the developer. And that's where I think
- that the discussion on client commission level about you know when we were doing the CDO again we were
- getting knocked a bit for affordability.
- by not allowing performance bonds, for instance, or we almost moved to only cashier's checks where we
- just have it on file. I don't like that. 10% inflation. I don't like that. So I think that as much as
- we can do financially to, I don't want to say burden, but just slightly push the developer to get it
- done is better than not. And I do think that with snowstorms and other natural disasters where we do have
- issues people are going to become more aware of these and developers might start seeing a higher cost
- to keep managing it. So you know I'm hopeful that they just want to kind of acceptance the inventory
- but we know I don't I don't know that we have a better tool out there. If you have ideas. We'll be feasible
- to put a tax lien on a property instead.
- The assessor's office began maybe two years ago assessing vacant lands and funded subdivisions much
- higher. And that got one of our developers to sell entire development to somebody. So that worked. I
- would say tax liens are things that make banks and banks people pay attention to because they supersede
- a lot of other issues. And so this doesn't circumvent that, but something like that might add a little
- more teeth to your CDO as well. Just a thought.
- Okay, I'd like to interrupt for a second and ask one more procedural question. Heard a lot of really
- good conversation. Obviously, it's a passionate subject, fresh in everybody's minds. Is there any way
- that we can legally capture some of these comments that other people might have? Because I want to move on.
- But if some people still have suggestions or ideas for consideration, is there a way that we can capture
- those? They've been writing them down. Okay. You can email me if anyone else has ideas later. So you're
- the point person. Yes. Excellent. Okay. So if you've got any other comments, ideas, suggestions, stripes,
- Ms. Jelin, Mr. Jelin will be happy to take your, your
- This isn't related to the questions just I pulled up the non-voting rule and just pursuant to Indiana
- Code 36-7-4-213 the non-mode voting member has every single right that we as members have except the
- vote. I've never really used it to make motions or set things just due to it's easier letting the voting
- body do that but just
- to let you know. I intended to send this to you, but I left your business card at home and never had
- it. So, and then the one in the circulation isn't related to the first financial, so I wasn't sure which
- one to send it. I'll send this to you. So you kind of have this in here. Thank you. Can we move on to
- new business? The first item under a new business is
- Just the three zone for 35 someone went south side of the street from EB to high density. Drew is a
- planner if you want to provide just like a two or three minute update on this one. Sure. So you've heard
- this one several times already. This is slated to go to the February 16th Planning Commission meeting. This one.
- is one of those examples that would be impacted by that House bill with respect to the railroad offering
- continuity to City of Williamson for possible voluntary annexation. And staff did recently receive a
- letter from the property owner themselves that I will include in the next staff report packet on that
- does provide their support for wanting to go to the high density
- stone and district. So keep the meeting going. I'll open it up for any questions or discussion. The
- commissioners had asked for just a 1-8-yard zone instead of high density. Yeah. Just 1-8-yard. Because
- it still doesn't fit. I mean you still can't do high density on it because the size of the lot and how
- it's situated. So that's why.
- We had said that, so I don't know if that's something that's going to be done. So this is the planning
- commission authored rezone. So we just want to take a roll call on changing it from HD to Rez. And then
- I think that was the last census of the planning commission, because I asked the commissioners on the
- timeline in the zone, anyone wants to? And we had said as a body that we prefer the one acre rezone,
- because it's going to have to be rezoned anyway, no matter what, because it does fit.
- high density the way the lot is situated anyway. So we just said let's just make it simple. We do have
- to take it out of the PUD to recognize that. And that's what we want to do and just call it one acre
- residential and then see what they want to do with it. So their motion. That's the motion. So it would
- be switching the 35.21 South Water Street region from PUD to REZ.
- Residential 1 instead of HD. So. — That's my motion. — Second. — Second. — Okay. So it's moved.
- — Call the vote please. — Moved and seconded to change the rezone application REZ-25-7 to come before
- the Planning Commission. Instead of a rezone from PUD to HD it would be a rezone from PUD to REZ or
- Residential 1. A vote yes is a vote to approve. Brady Fields. — Yes. — David Henry.
- Yes. I couldn't hear you David. Yes. Well you got to hear us. There we go. You got to hear it. Jeff
- Morris says not here anymore. JoVie and Deventer. Yes. Julie Talmadge. Yes. David Bush. Yes.
- Martin Clement. Yes. Scott Beres. Yes. The face of the motion passes.
- 7 to 0. Okay. Thank you. All right. Under the new business the violence PV outline plan parcel E. Again
- relevant for tonight's discussion. The developer would like to change this development from having a
- flat that says the road is public to switching it to private.
- We have talked with the developer of this subdivision which is Weininger Construction and they from
- the Ordinance Review Committee we delayed this a month to see if they'd be willing to implement any
- of the highway departments recommended or required changes to get into the inventory that weren't going
- to impact the structures built on the site.
- And they said that if it's going to be private, it's going to be private. I'm not doing anything. So
- that is their answer to that in no uncertain terms. So they would like it to be private so that they
- can continue to maintain it. We have recommended that it would be a positive recommendation just because
- we see that the way that the town homes were constructed and
- the setbacks of those townhomes the adult conditions are off. And so there's just no way to meet some
- of those ADA standards and to get it accepted. But in return for that we do think South Wickens which
- is the connecting piece from Rockport that they had to create is very close to acceptance and that that
- could be accepted potentially prior to coming to you all for the discussion of turning range view which
- is awful humans right. So that is the discussion that we've been having with the developer and this
- would be coming to you before at the regular meeting and then it would be ultimately a commissioner's
- decision. That's your payments. I don't like this one. I you know this is all it's terrible.
- For all the people who have kids in these townhomes now their kids will not be able to be picked up
- by the local school bus. They'd have to walk to the end of the street. Rain or shine. Snow. Of course
- not. Sorry are you at the end of the street. I we don't control that. We also don't know that information
- right. No but it could be but the bus will not go through is what. But doesn't already is the question.
- Oh I don't.
- I don't know. I'm guessing not. I'm guessing not because that last piece is just one last piece. The
- rest is private stuff. So it would be a nonissue then right. I don't know that. Well you can simply
- vote no. They have to do as-bills. So. That's a good point. Avia compliance. Yeah. They. So I guess that's a.
- The question of the nearest post stuff I can inquire about that. So they are currently owned by the
- developer. There are individual platted lots. I don't know if they are wanting to sell it at any point.
- They could sell each of these individually, and people could own it by right for all of these, actually.
- The question of whether we deny this, what happens, we have a lot of credit on file for this one.
- this would this has lapsed. And so we would be asking them to post a new letter of credit or complete
- the improvements to get it accepted. Which like I said without removing two of these town homes and
- putting them at a different elevation I don't know that it's possible. That's just their discussion
- with our highway engineer.
- And I can show just some photos, so it becomes a little bit more steep. They got a setback change to
- be 15 feet in the road, so 25. So there's some areas where it seems very flat. It's meeting the cross
- slopes. But as you kind of go north and around the curve, you start to see that there are some deficiencies.
- And you have very steep driveways, so just
- Well, is that baby in a stroller right into the screen? I don't know if it's possible or they could
- have been to put the sidewalk closer to the road to fix the cross. So it would be a huge undertaking.
- And they are they should be meeting ADA requirements as the developer. It's not it's just that as a
- county, if we take something in that woefully is beyond the two percent cross of the sidewalks,
- where I think as I've talked to legal before it sounds like we're we could be ineligible for future
- federal funds if they find out we're taking in and things in the inventory accepting things that don't
- very good meet ABA. So we're trying not to. What type of precedent are we setting if we in fact recommend
- a positive recommendation. What type of precedent or what comes down the road
- I mean, I'm a precedent guy. I mean, you've got to be careful five years from now when that happens.
- I mean, it is a slippery slope. No pun intended. No pun intended. But absolutely. And I do think that
- some of these situations, though, they're similar to each other. They're all context-based. It's not
- that you are creating mine for you.
- case law, right? It's not that somebody who looks at the case and compares their case. If you have dealings,
- if you have dealings with this developer in the future, what do you think is going to happen?
- In that regard, yes, right. Don't force a certain vote. How does it give this foreign laws before everybody stops it?
- So the building department, it turns out, does not have requirements for residential structures for
- the driver's seat ADA, which I found out maybe six months ago, because this is a repeat issue. Additionally,
- as Lisa talked about, this developer has not closed out their driving permits. We did do land
- use certificates as we went along.
- but it was mostly for the actual landscaping tree trees, things like that. We didn't know at the time
- that they had a bond on file. So we were stuck in a rock and a hard place because you have the developer
- wanting certificate of occupancy for which we didn't have a
- a great reason for holding that up other than, well, the sidewalks don't meet ADA. But we have a letter
- of credit, so we'll eventually get them. But they don't have a driveway permit. Or they don't have a
- closed out driveway permit. So we'll get them then to come back into compliance. But then, yeah, it's
- been done for four or five years. They're not going to want to do anything. So the state has also put
- us in a bind that holding up certificate of occupancy is very challenging.
- So if we say no, what happens? They owe us the money amount that would take to make this compliant and
- a lot of engineering costs. You said the letter of credit lapsed. Do you still have a letter of credit?
- No. Because if you still had it, it's possible you could still use it. Well, we have the physical copy
- of it, yes.
- Right, but it's been some years, so I don't know that they would let us have you contacted the originating
- bank and it's one issue. They don't call me. And I've contacted the developer and this was right at
- the time period where highway was transferring it to planning. Yeah.
- To be honest, I went on maternity leave the week prior and sent everyone an email saying I expect a
- renewal to come in while I'm out and it did not come. So that was really unfortunate. Can I
- make a recommendation that you physically take that letter to whatever financial institution it is and
- talk to them because as long as you physically have that letter and that financial institution does
- not, it can be called. Okay. That's not true. The financial institution will not extinguish that letter
- until it has the original
- This will copy back. I have a lot of documentation asking for remittals as well. So when we have to
- apply our history. I'm not sure what recourse is involved but you do have something that you can at
- least. Is the bank local. Yes they're all within 60 miles of Monroe County they have to be. So there's
- one that ain't was Jackson County. I will go and double check that. So it's not my board and it's the
- 60 mile. It is. It's working great. Please don't change that.
- I just remember we had a discussion. It's really a question for legal, so that would be the question
- for legal is me too. He's a repeat offender and he's going to do it again. Yeah. Does that make sense
- for our regular meetings? Yeah, I've asked her to ask legal to please at the regular meeting as to what
- would happen. And also the neighbors have to be aware of the
- of the meeting. Oh yeah. Because they're taking a room. So we'll add to the report you know if denied
- these are the actions. That'd be good. Option 1 option 2. Right. And is there a stating now that they're
- unwilling you know trying to tear it to private and unwilling to make the changes even voluntary changes
- that were you know it's like a manhole in a painting about the surface or fixing a crack here or there.
- If they're stating that they're not willing to do that, this is, yeah. So, okay. And then any other
- questions on this one? That's good. It's probably enough. Can you scroll down just a little bit of your
- photos? Oh, that's fine. Okay. Yeah, I don't think it's the same ones that are in the packet. Probably
- different. Yeah.
- There's a there's a school bus in one of the pictures. Yeah. In the packet. Yeah. OK. Yeah. I thought
- I saw it. There's actually about three or four pictures that have a school bus in there. Yeah. No it's
- not in there. Yeah. Yeah. I'll ask. OK. I'll ask about that. OK. Thank you. All right. You might be
- thinking about Ben's. Maybe. It may be Ben's picture. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
- Yeah. That's it.
- It's almost toward the end there. This is the inspection report from highway department stating what
- would need to be fixed. So this was going out and documenting some of the cracks or the deficiencies
- that were brought up. These are raised. There's a great rate around that, not great tripping hazard.
- This is the mailbox that's technically in the right way for weekends. We've asked to move that. There's
- been some discussion.
- This is the sidewalk along with him that they were finishing at the time, but this was three years ago
- now, so that's been finished, three trees. And we are planning on going out and getting updated photos.
- These were supposed to be parallel-striped, and they're not, so they're very, very short parking spaces.
- Parking is an issue. Blacked out bar on the side. That's probably private. Might be.
- Yeah, they're not 18 feet. There's not enough. Yeah, those parking spaces are not long enough. Yeah,
- this is where the parking is supposed to be, but I think to get more space and then they made them angled. Okay.
- Thank you for that. Okay so any other questions that you have leave them to me and I'll send them to
- the planners. Okay so. Yeah. The last item on underneath the business is related to the point B. They
- the homeowners homeowners association is working with
- of Blood Sovereign Cooper and James for a request to add a use for essentially what they're calling
- self-stored but it would be to add individual garages and they would like to have those garages be able
- to be rentable to those in the Eagle Bay condominium section. So it's currently a basketball slash tennis
- court. When we met with the Home Loan Association who are residing down here
- They stated that everyone that wants to play basketball or tennis goes to the main area where they're
- like pickleball courts and things like that. And that the area in question is rarely used. So and it's
- only supposed to be for eagle dive incidents. Upon researching this a little bit as well, this part
- is in a different phase than this part.
- And so this part was part of a phase with single family development that never was finished. And this
- part is the part that was completed. So we're going to come back with a little more research on that
- and a chance to talk to legal just because we're in many different phases and where the people that
- live there are. But this is just an introduction into that. We are looking for them to give us a little
- bit more definition on
- what this self storage could be used as and want to make sure they're not intending on it to be used
- for like general contractor storage or to be used by other people that don't live in Eagle Bay but they're
- going to be bought and sold, things like that. They need to be pretty clear about that. But they are
- excited about this because I guess none of them have garages on that piece. And it is a
- which from impervious to impervious they didn't have to go to the Drainage Board which they received
- preliminary approval for to get just do a detention waiver. Well as I was a little surprised up in the
- journey for discussion but with the engineering plan and everything they and the basketball court kind
- of all already being kind of impervious surface it was really just the way to mitigate the water and
- there was something
- down a bit, one of the outlets that was installed, not so good that they were going to fix two. Mr.
- Rigger does some pretty good drainage engineering and work, so that's why you have the one extension
- on here as well. Yeah, when you brought this up, I almost thought it was already done. We met 5-23-2025.
- Is there anything in terms of setback or slope that becomes an issue here? So they are asking to rezone
- this entire parcel to add the use. Right. But it's very flat here, actually. OK. But we could condense
- that even to a legal description of these two courts, the tennis court and the basketball court. Yeah.
- Those are very flat, I mean. But there's no issue with setback at all relating to this. They're going
- to have to say that, you know, setback. Okay, so there is an issue. Okay. If they don't want to accept
- that, you know. Yeah. And that's the part that to me doesn't look right. It doesn't look right. Right.
- I think that they, on their... It's not near a residence.
- But it doesn't look right in terms of where it sits on that spot. There. Yeah. This is right on the
- line redevelopment of garage. So it would be right on the line of this. I think this is like a rented
- space if I'm not mistaken. That's a Kapothosi. Yeah.
- shared space community center owner. This is owned by the HOA. And who owns the other piece there? I
- think it says Putnam Properties LLC. Okay. And they've been notified. They have, yep, they did send
- out. I haven't given a receipt yet. From a different festival. Driving past the basketball park and
- it didn't drive past the series of storage buildings. Yes. Okay.
- Yeah, I'm just a little bit confused in the terminology because it's going back and forth between self
- storage units and garages. And I just don't understand what is actually being requested here. And if
- it's self storage, is it commercial self storage or is it limited to owner
- I don't understand why it's called self storage. Can an owner then sublet it to somebody who lives outside
- the community? I just don't know what we're talking about here. Is it something painted in orange with
- lights on all night so that people can come? Is it temperature controlled storage? Or is it a garage
- for the people who live there? What is it? I think it's a garage that I have questions about.
- vehicle RV and both storage, which I know is something we need to talk about, because being so close
- to the lake, you don't want to have a big vehicle storage area without the right. I would rather have
- a garage than self storage because that means two by two foot unit versus a four by four foot. I mean,
- what are we looking at here? My question.
- So you're asking for a clear definition of self storage. Are we asking for usage and that they're really
- planning to use it or is that buried in that paragraph and I didn't. If they define something that's
- self storage our definition of self storage is convenience storage like you rent the space and put in
- your household goods. It's not necessarily garages. I think that their goal is to have them be rentable spaces
- for the residents. We did talk to them about whether these would be large enough for RVs. It's been
- some time. I don't think that they're tall enough, but I will double check to see it. It might be a
- big enough to a boat. Yeah, that's what I thought. I do think a boat in that far is worth it. And that's
- an issue. Well, we need to go up on 26.
- And then they say there's a range setback from zero on the east side, 10 feet south side, 14 west side.
- So that's a concern to give all of my room. I think that. So the question is, can we limit what,
- in fact, they can put into bed? And who's going to hit their chin? Who's going to?
- Who's going to police that. Who's going to involve that. So it says here. Well Jackie is. Jackie is.
- So we can drive out there. She's going to drive. Storage building will be noncommercial and limited
- to the storage of the residents' belongings. I mean that's pretty clear right there. Say that again.
- I'm sorry. Except for the noncommercial and storage of the residents' belongings. But that has to be
- but that it's it's it's in a letter but it's not when we write the P.E.V.
- But they've stayed in there at the end, so they're not trying to escape. But it would have to be part
- of the team. You'd have to catch them. This is their try and outline plan after several months. Yeah,
- I hear you. And the point is notoriously difficult because it was graded conceptually and adopted
- conceptually, and now we're trying to get into the mini-grady and it's not there because it's
- A lot of it was created in the 70s. Yeah. So yeah, documentation and trying to read lines and ordinance
- or document we pulled what we have, but there's more to be desired on this. So we can get more clarity
- on non-commercial, yes, but rents and gas. I don't know if they're going to flat it. I can ask about
- that. Are they going to buy those units? That's a question. Yeah, that is and whether or not
- they could run it to outside folk because that changes traffic patterns in the community. So yeah lots
- of lots of questions lots of questions for them. Yeah lighting was a good one that that Margaret had.
- Dave just came on camera, I don't know if he got something. Dave, did you have anything you wanted to
- add? No, I don't have anything at this point. Okay. All right. I don't have anything else on the agenda.
- If anyone has anything questions-wise or anything they'd like me to follow up on any of these if you
- think about it later, send us an email. I think I just want to say that for the ORC meeting coming up,
- Mr. Schilling I would like if possible to have I know this the legislative session is not over yet but
- I would like to have if not at this month's ORC in March ORC if this legislation passes an outline of
- the kinds of things we can do about House Bill what is it 1101-1001-1001 and what I learned from the
- TAM capital group or lobbyists is that TAM is actually a city councilor in Westfield I believe. And
- he said they're actually looking to strike their account plan. He said it's going to force cities and
- counties to do really unusual things if it goes through. And so I even if just a preliminary sense of
- what we can do to protect ourselves
- and protect local government control would be really useful. And I don't know if now is the appropriate
- time or March but thank you. Also AIC has their legislative meeting ongoing I think today. So I've reached
- out to them. They're always in favor of trying to keep that local. They are on this already. They about
- are already on this. Yeah. And Brian the legislative person has actually left the AIC so I'm not sure
- if his replacement was.
- Long story short, they might have somebody to kind of update. Any other comments before we adjourn?
- Motion to adjourn. Thank you all.