So, folks, welcome. I'm going to call this meeting of the municipal unit strategic task force. We're
going to refer to it as must to order. This is a brand new body, and I am very pleased that we have
a quorum of members joining us today. We have Leah Feigl, whose clerk treasurer of the town of Steinsville.
Leah, say hi. Hi. We've got Noel Conyer, clerk treasurer of the town of Ellisville. Hello.
And we have Jeff McKim, controller of the city of Bloomington presence. Hello. And finally, my name
is Peter Iverson. I am from the Monroe County Council. And by statute, the four of us make up this body.
Before we dive in, I just need to cover a few housekeeping items. First, this is a preliminary meeting.
We're here to get organized. We're here to make introductions and lay the groundwork for discussions
ahead. We are not
ready to reach fiscal decisions today. Second, in the interest of everyone's schedule, we're going to
do our very best to keep this as close to one hour as possible. Greg, one hour. Yes, sir.
I'm just kidding. I'd like to ask everyone to keep that in mind as we move through today's agenda. And
on that point, in the back of the room, for those of you who are here in the NatU Hill Room, there are
copies of today's packets. You can also find copies of today's packet on the county's website. Not on
the website, I'm sorry. Excuse me. So it's in the back of the room. We didn't get the information until
later, so we're making more copies.
A couple of process notes as folks in the NatU Hill room here are grabbing those agendas and packets.
There will be no public comment period at this meeting, but in keeping with the Monroe County's commitment
to transparency, this meeting is being recorded and that recording will be made to the public
either on the county's website or on community access television sites and therefore after on YouTube.
Now on membership, I've already covered this by statute. The voting members of this task force are one
representative from the county council, which is myself and the fiscal officer of Smithville, Ellitsville,
and the city of Bloomington.
Fire, emergency management services, and other non-unicipal units are not voting members of this particular
committee. However, many are present here in the NatU Hill Room or on Teams, and we are very happy that
you are joining us.
Everyone in the room is a welcome participant, but formal recommendations require unanimous agreement
among the voting members on this dais specifically. These meetings are subject to Indiana's open door
law, and there will be no proxy voting. This means that all meetings will be properly noticed on the
county's website, and meeting information will be made available if we have the materials ahead of time at in.gov
slash counties slash Monroe.
Now before we get started, I want to just say that whatever differences we do bring into this room,
we also share many, many things in common. And I don't know anything that unites this county quite like
the Indiana Hoosiers football team winning 18 straight games. So if we can find that kind of momentum
here, I think we're going to be in good shape. So with that,
Let's begin. And I'm going to pass the microphone over to Greg Guterres with Financial Services Group.
Thank you, Peter. And good afternoon, everybody. And I have with me also Tate, IU grad. So he's on our
staff and responsible for a lot of the numbers. So he and I are going to tag team when we get to some
of the numbers. Couple of things I think I want to state for the record and make sure that everybody knows.
Number one, why are we here? Well, this is an optional must group. OK, so the county had the option
of either doing this or not doing it. There are counties that are not doing it. There are counties that
have been into their fifth or sixth meeting of this. I don't think it should take that long. I think
the whole point is
for us all to get together. And that is every time I went down and down in southern Indiana and talked
to a senator, walked around talking to representatives around in Hancock County and in western part
of the state. They said part of the process was for us all that live and die by the sword known as lit
that we all have to, you know, should have a voice and talk this out. So
what is happening is, to remind everybody, we're going from a distribution formula that was levy driven.
So if you were like the city of Bloomington in the past and you did file annexation appeals, your maximum
levy would go up, okay, and that meant then you would also get a bigger share of the lit pie as time went on.
that is something the state said you know we've got to rearrange or fix and so what they're going to
what they propose to do already in the current statutes is go to what they call a rate based system
now you know don't confuse that if you're in the utility world and in utilities but what that means
is that we would all have a rate of some sort and that's what we're going to go over
in this presentation that we've put together is some of the rates that we believe may or may not work
and to point those out. The whole reason for that is to make sure that if there's any concepts that
we don't feel we could live with and going forward that when they come to and everybody's heard me say
SB2 is coming to a theater near you. And so there will be an SB2. It won't be called that. I call it
that. But there will be changes, no doubt, in January, February, and March. And part of those changes
will come about as a result of what we submit as a group. And the AIC put together this little document.
that Bree, I thought maybe you even had some of this already filled out, but we'll go through that document
and it's pretty easy. And so again, this is a non-binding, you know, whatever we come up with.
If Jeff says, you know, I've got it, you know, I really need this X rate. The answer is it's non-binding.
We really don't want to put a rate in my opinion. Okay.
The other thing is, when I talk about the county as a whole, I mean it. I mean libraries, solid waste
district. I mean schools. I mean everyone. You've got to look at keeping the county as a whole sound
in a sound financial position. I've gone around and done 15 of these, and I've said the worst thing
is I know in fact in one county, a town dissolved.
It became a nightmare for the county commissioners and the county council. They had to basically kind
of take it over and run it when the town dissolved. And so nobody wants to be in that position. So keeping
every town whole in trying to achieve the best for the county, even the libraries and everything like
that. And I don't mean even the libraries. Libraries are a critical part to economic development. There's
no doubt about it.
schools and everybody else are too. So what so um I guess what I want to do is say also every time I've
put this on there hasn't been a county council yet that didn't say oh my gosh we want to try and make
people whole that's right okay and and so now that definition of made whole usually will start with
the current lit as we go forward
As we go forward, maybe Kepp Hall might also include some of the losses as a result of SB1. But we've
got an analysis in here that has had in every county we've looked at is going to have a process of pushing
the rate higher than the current rate. And I don't think many counties, I'm not sure I've no one yet
that's going to go for that. And so that'll be a challenge.
as we get to 28 to be applied in 29. Could that change? Absolutely. Someone mentioned, I think the email
that came out and said applied in 30 and I was told directly from some of the legislators, that's not
correct. It's 28, 29 at this point in time, but that's subject to change too. Okay. So keep in mind,
I keep saying, we know a couple of things. We know the income in Monroe County is going to grow
between now and 28, wouldn't you agree, Jeff? I mean, and it could be as much as five or 7% per year.
We know another thing. And I know it from your question. The answers to your question here is,
by the way, you guys did a really good job, guys and gals, sorry. You did a real good job on answering
the questionnaire. And I know when you're trying to achieve 83,000, Jeff, I think the answer said.
And so we know you're going to be, you have grown and you will be growing. One of the things we did
also is we drafted this little paragraph and we've even said, you know, we've looked in some counties,
especially growing counties. We've said, oh my gosh, we may have to use something other than the, when
was the last census done? 1894? It feels like 2020, right? And so it's kind of outdated and it's probably,
wrong in some instances. So we've been addressing that in some of them. So let's go to the numbers now.
So that's kind of my opening. Anything you want to add or anything you want to correct? Just real quick.
The FSG analysis, was that made available to those here in the not-you-home meeting room? OK, great.
OK. Page one. And is someone presenting this? Kim, are you?
Okay. I can put it on the screen. That's what I meant. That's what you meant. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I
thought you meant present. I'm going, no. Kim, I wouldn't drag you that far under the camel tent. Okay.
Page one. So what page one does is this sets the stage. Notice that it says at the top,
$1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.
Notice at the bottom that we did keep the juvenile correction special purpose. We're seeing that as
far as I'm concerned, the must groups that have special legislation are not addressing it. They're leaving
on the table. They're saying it works well. Keep it for the future. Okay. And so the last thing we want
to do is suggest torpedoing anything associated with that. So we set it out in the way you understand
it, which is old co it.
and the PSAP and the jail lit and things like that. So if for some reason you would not agree, just
let us know, but this is the numbers we're driving off of. It is interesting. I was in Shelby County
two nights ago. Shelbyville and Shelby County were 50-50. Bloomington and Monroe, almost 50-50. Obviously
45 and 41, but everybody else is somewhat minor in nature compared to
the two big ones. And we expected that. Okay. Page two. Page two is what I was talking about on the
LSA losses that they published in 2025. And the first column is estimated 28, estimated 29. We also
believe these are high side estimates. LSA always puts them out. But remember, this is the tax loss.
And at the bottom, we show you
that if we had to recover those on the AGI of the county. Notice I'm saying that slow because there's
numerous AGI's or there will be, but this is AGI of the county. So that's how much more the rate would
be affected. So we isolated that. So what we did on page three now, and correct me if I say something
wrong, Tate.
We put the 2027 lit distributions, we put the 29 tax laws, and we said, let's start as a 2029 lit goal,
adding those two numbers together. Might not work, but hey, let's start there, okay? And remember, we're
not bound by anything, any of the numbers, so let's try it. So let's go there.
So in page four, we show the total distribution, and now we start segregating it into the different
rates. You're gonna see county services. Well, that's the county service rate with a not to exceed of
1.20. You're gonna see the fire and EMS. Now, we will say the fire and EMS is still unestimate. We have
point blank. We want to ask point blank of each entity
how much you actually give your fire department and you know that would then be baked in here and guess
what it's gonna have to move forward to 2028 enemies okay next one is the non-municipal civil taxing
unit the opt-in let me if you don't understand any other term one term you want to understand is opt-in
or opt-out so if i asked jeff jeff
do you think you'd want to opt in or opt out? He would already know what that means and whether he wants
to do it or not, more than likely based upon his own analysis. Opt in means he would basically use the
adjusted gross income of the county as a whole and the county council would approve that rate or a rate,
let's say that.
If he says no, Greg, we would prefer to opt out and correct me if I'm wrong, Jeff, under your standing.
But if you said no, we prefer to opt out, then he they could. And when I say he, the county,
the city council, obviously they would create a rate up to one point two. Now, the best way to show
that is we just go ahead. I'm going to make you jump a little bit, Ken. Sorry.
I'm going to make you jump back to page 12 since really the real big the people that we have representing
the clerk treasures they're all listed here on page 12. So what we've done is we've assumed that everybody
in this calculation would opt in meaning then you would say county council we need a rate to fund our
are lit replacement basically, and this is what happens. If you look at the number that is in the orange,
okay, 1.05 or 1.04, that is calculated by finding the person or the entity that needs the largest amount
of lit. It happens to be Bloomington. You know, that's not surprising. And so what we said was, okay,
in order to fund
the basically the target distribution okay we need approximately 1.04 and guess what it over it's too
much for Alexville it's too much for Steinsville now this is where I've warned every small town that
I've done this please do not spend this money as mom mom or dad always told you don't spend your money
until it's in the bank okay so
You don't do that because this is just estimates, but it more than funds. Alexville and Stein Steinsville.
Now we found this everywhere. OK, we found when you find the big dog and you do the calculation that
all the other people, you know, you know, I've been told there's winners and losers and sometimes the
one point the 1.2 in the orange.
isn't enough to fund some of this. I was real surprised, Jeff, and I think you came up with 1.09,
you said. And so we're right in the ballpark. And so what we said is, okay, we've got room between the
zero and 120. So that doesn't appear to be a philosophic issue. What is a conceptual issue is
You know, is there a better way about allocating the percentage so that we don't necessarily overfund
either? Because some of the taxpayers might consider overfunding overtaxing. And, you know, so we got
to be kind of careful there. So one of the things we've said in one of the suggested paragraph that
we put together is maybe we need some flexibility there.
I'm told there is no way we could give Steinsville their own rate. We could give Ellisville their own
rate and Bloomington their own rate. Because if you did that, remember, there's what I think we've got
a person here from Maine in their 502 cities and towns. OK, so we could have 567 more rates, tax rates
in the state of Indiana. I've told I've been told no way. Don't even ask.
Don't even ask. And so, um, you know, so that's a fact of life. And this calculation, when you do the
population and the population adjustment, as Tate has built in here, it just over funds. Okay. So I
call that a conceptual issue that we may want to address as we go forward. Okay.
Let's go back and let's check out. Well, let's check one more thing. What we did do is we said on the
page before that or a page after that, no page before when they're front and back, I get twisted a little
bit. Eleven. What we did say, Jeff, here is on Bloomington's civil city. If you created your head to
create your own rate, we show it to have to be a dollar one point eight.
and so I don't know what your numbers show but obviously that's over the statute and so and that's way
over the statute now that income is totally an estimate on our part we we are not aware of any geo fencing
other than in hamilton county and uh and that's what they're calling it and so you know Jeff will let
me know when you get your geo fence set up and we'll we'll be able to refine this
but I think it's going to be a while. And so Ellisville, you could do it, as you already indicated to
me, because you are under the 120, if you ever wanted to. But remember, I was told one of these
representatives I talked to, and I said, wow, let's say I am a town, and I do want to do my 120. What
would be your point that you might make to a town? And he said,
You know, one of the points I would make is you don't know in Ellitsville, you don't know, and maybe
you do, but most of the time, you don't know who's really, really rich and famous, and they just haven't
told you. Okay? Because you don't get their IT for you, right? And so the warning I was told is be careful.
There are some rich and famous people in some of these towns.
And the people that have access to the tax information say, by the way, sometimes they get tired of
maybe living in Ellisville. And they say, we're just going to move to Timbuktu. Or I was in a town about
30 days ago called the middle of nowhere. They might want to move to the town of middle of nowhere.
Now it's in the middle of nowhere. But they might want to move there. And if they do, they take their
income out of the town
And his point was, there's more of those people than you think sometimes. So I said, oh, that's a really
good point, because your income could come and go fairly quickly. So we put together those two calculations
just to show Bloomington, I would never choose at this point in time my own, because I think it would
be more than likely be a problem. But that's totally up to you.
That is my understanding that there are substantial changes. Coming in again in SB 2 and I also believe
that one of the changes everybody is going to be said to be opt in automatically and then they're going
to have to elect to opt out. So when the new law comes so that's that's good. We you know we would know
point blank what you'd want to do. So let's go to back now. I'm going to go to page
five Kim and thank you very much for driving. On page five once we started looking at the different
rates what we said is county service rate looks doable. Firing EMS on our estimated numbers looks doable.
Non-municipal taxing district
Uh, we want some things we want to talk about there. And then we went ahead and added in the juvenile
correction and the single municipal rate looks doable. Okay. Now what, what is the hard pill to swallow
is that we go from 2.39 really to two point from 2.205 or 2.21. So if we were using
the estimated AGI right now, and trying to build those rates, we would be high. Now, what I've been
saying throughout the state, and I'm not sure the state's gonna like it, but what we're saying, if we
get down to this document, filling in this document, this document asks for rates. I wouldn't put anything
other than the max. I sure in the heck wouldn't put a min.
or I wouldn't put something lower than the max because I just don't think we have enough information.
Okay. So, you know, and County Council and everybody would be concerned with this type of increase.
So now let's go to page six. So page six, hopefully you've got the colored version that has the green
and red. And Tate assures me the red means bad and the green means good. And so,
what we see is that for the most part, we think these will work. We, you know, obviously the school
corporation, they were not part of this group. They may be here. I've had them at, at multiple must
sessions and you know, the consortium of schools in Hendricks County came together and put together
a statement. They said, just make just, we just like you to notice us.
And by the way, we're working on our own special legislation. Okay, cool. And they were all speaking
out of one voice in that case. So what we have noticed in every place we've done this is the townships,
we can't seem to fund to the level that we're trying to do with the 27 distribution and the estimated
property tax loss. Why?
because the formula just doesn't work for you. And Tate on that one, that's on page, that's on page
seven. And that's where we're capped by the sub cap. Remember there's a total cap of 0.20 in the statute,
but townships are limited to 0.05. So you got a sub cap, right? That's what I call a sub cap. And so
what we've said in our document, you know,
I went around and talked to a lot of townships and they, some say, well, that was intentional. And,
you know, I don't want to get into the political issues, but the answer is it's a reality. And either
we need to say the 0.05 doesn't work or we need to say, like this says, or we need a more flexible way
to allocate it and basically take some of the ones that are
green and move them to red. Statutorily we don't unless Jeff sees the statute different than we do and
about 900 and other people do. You know there's not a way and so the answer is you know we're we're
saying in our paragraph give us the right if nothing else to be more flexible okay the county council.
when it gets down to 2028, 2029. And I don't think anybody would be opposed, Jeff. You wouldn't be opposed
to more flexibility, right? So that's what we're saying. And because we believe, you know, townships
are valuable, we believe they are a part, and we also know for a fact they've received lit in the past,
okay? So why would you throw them out? Well, we wouldn't. And so that's where we come up there.
now sue on on you know some of the people said uh year two numbers oriented so we put together the graph
on seven we put together the graph on eight and let me speak to eight we've got houston we have the
same problem we have libraries that we cannot really get um we can't get monroe county public library
high enough because of the fact that we're limited by the 0.05
So there, that's one of the ones that we've said, wow, maybe that cap needs to be adjusted, or maybe
it's something that you should give flexibility to the county council to adjust. Because at this point
in time, again, I'm talking about concepts, not numbers. I'm talking about concepts, would it be at
least made whole? And so I'm assuming you're from the librarian
and understand that. Or is somebody from the public library? No? Okay. Bloomington Transportation. Jeff,
if we got our numbers right, I think that one works at the cap of .05. So there's nothing more important
than getting people up and down the road that don't have a car. So fire and EMS, this was our estimate
again on page nine. And we showed the Monroe Fire Protection District
I think we'd be OK. We did not have good answers on how much was given in lit for Bloomington Fire Department
in Ellsville. You may have answered that in your questionnaire, but it came a little late before this
estimate. So how much do you give? Is it Noel Noel? I don't have that number in front of me, but it's
definitely in our questions if it was something that was asked in there. OK, if not, we'll have a re ask.
I mean, for us, it's split between funds. Their budget is split between funds, so it's really hard to
say this is the lit component. Yeah, and for townships, we've asked that for township. Townships are
now required to put their lit all in the general fund. And so the assumption is it's not being used
for fire, but there are people that charge fire expenses to the general fund budget. So I'm seeing,
Ultimately, there are snakes in the grass that we're going to have to kind of look for and make sure
we don't step on them. And so, you know, but again, this was a starting point and it appears like most
of the time when we went around the state, the point four oh was OK and we could fund our fire and EMS.
OK, and I'm saying all over the state fire and EMS today.
is highly likely to look different than fire and EMS in 2028. Because I know some counties that are
making some major moves and I don't mean the major move grant program. I mean major moves in the concept
of providing fire and EMS. So, you know, we even are recommending to most of our clients that a fire
and EMS study needs to be made on a countywide basis and decide how it's going to go forward.
you know, in the future here. So next one is cities and towns. We already went over 10. So at this point
in time, I think we kind of went over and by the way, I guess I should not leave the taxpayer out on
page 13. This is why we said if we build in the losses due to the property tax losses, you know, we've
got a raising of the rising tax bill out of lit.
And I know better. And someone said, what are you recommending? I'm not recommending anything. I'm suggesting
this is where the numbers fall out based upon the information that Tate and I have. But if you use these
points, then it would be an increase in the LIT to residents in Monroe County. And that's not unusual
at all because no one is really picking up
that's the point. So, um, we'll kind of go from there. So at this point, Peter, I think unless you think
I I want to talk about this, but we maybe after we talked to some of the people, some of the club treasurers
and, um, elected officials, we can kind of come back to this
why some of these things are in here. And again, we're saying let's really not go out on the proverbial
limb. You would not want to go out on a limb and say the county only needs 94 basis points. The city
of Bloomington only needs 1.04. No, I would not suggest that because the game and the ball game will
change. So, okay. Greg, thank you very much. Do you have anything to add to
The packet that you all put together? No, he pretty much went over everything until people have some
questions. Can you bring the mic close to your mouth? No, he pretty much covered everything until people
have some questions for us. So. OK, wonderful. I think now we're going to transition in the agenda to
agenda item number five. And that's where we're going to offer an opportunity for you to hear
from the statutorily required people up on this dais. They'll have up to five minutes to make a statement.
If you don't use all of that time, that's fine. But we also built in time for Q&A. So if you want to
ask Greg a question, you want to ask county legal a question, you want to ask the county auditors a
question, or vice versa, then we wanted to have that dialogue. Immediately following the statements
from these members,
We are offering an opportunity to hear from other taxing units. If you're here from the Township Trustee,
if you're here from Fire EMS, if you're here from the libraries, if you're here from any of the groups
really that Mr. Gutierrez mentioned in his presentation,
We want to hear from you. We have microphones set up on the table for you to make a statement. We're
timing those a maximum of three minutes. And we're then going to be allotting a five-minute question
and answer, because we know this is complicated. We know that we don't have all the information. And
so once we get to item number six on the agenda, I'll invite people up to the microphones. And then
for those of you who are joining us on Teams, we'll try and alternate between in the room and on the
screen. Does that sound good to everybody?
All right. On the agenda, we listed the statutory, the taxing unit in reverse alphabetical order.
So TSD, can we get a five minute timer going on the screen? Or Michelle, are you doing that? Oh, nope.
TSD's got it. OK. So Steinsville, you've got the floor. OK. Thank you, Peter. My name is Leah Figley.
I am the clerk treasurer for the town of Steinsville.
I just finished my first year in this job, so I am very new. Obviously the must lit stuff is very new
as well. Filling out the questionnaire was very eye opening to me. We are a very, very small town in
this county and there's not much room for growth. There's not much room for funding elsewhere outside
of maybe some grants. So this is very, very vital to our tiny town.
Thank you. And does anybody have any questions or points you want to make? Let's help around. Sure.
So 203 people. Yes. Did you go to maybe 205 yesterday? Probably not. OK. So hopefully you didn't go
to 198 either. I don't know. OK. So there's the point. OK. So they didn't give you the ability to create
your own rate. You wouldn't want it on 200 people.
and you know I've seen this yes you know every every other night and so you know and the county has
served you well in the past the county council and that's the way it looks like it would be for the
future for you and so you know that is to keep you in business so to speak and that's critical so you
know so that's how I would help you out you really welcome aboard thank you you got you got 200
people behind you, and they want to achieve what they've got now. Absolutely. Perfect. Anybody else?
All right. The town of Ellitsville.
everyone my name is Noel Conyer I am the clerk treasurer for the town of Ellisville I am in my third
year of my first term I did want to state our goals as far as Ellisville that our objective is to ensure
that the lit revenues remain stable and predictable for the town while limiting the impact on our taxpayers
one of the things that we also have to take into consideration is that we have a proposed
ballot question for reorganization for the town of Ellsville and Richland Township. So we need to be
mindful of that while we're having these discussions. But there's one principle I think that I can say
personally I feel strongly about that we're trying to make sure that the tax impact on our residents
is as low as possible while maintaining all the services that we provide. Currently we do fund out of
our lit revenues
public safety and various economic development projects, and I wanna see that continue. So I'm really
thankful that we're having these conversations and we're making sure that we're gonna come to an appropriate
rate that's good for all the residents in Monroe County. Thank you so much. And to help you, as we talked
before the meeting, we did not take into or estimate anything on geographic boundary changes. We believe
that would be a good sentence in here that any future
changes in geographic due to consolidation or whatever should we should be able to reflect that in the
new law and so you know I was in one place where we have one town that's in three counties the law does
not address how you split up lit can you imagine uh leah if you were in three counties and so you know
it doesn't address that so those are things that
We really didn't even know existed. And consolidation is something the state, I believe, sometimes I
get a tomato thrown at me when I say this, but that's something that they want to see. And so that's
a fact of life. And what we look like, that's kind of what I meant by the fire. And he asked, what we
looked like in 28 could be totally different than we look today. So. Any other comments or questions
for the town of Ellsville?
All right. City of Bloomington. All right. Hi, my name is Jeff McKim. I am the city controller for the
city of Bloomington. So I think I'm the only one here who is not an elected official. I've been working
for the city since the beginning of the year. I have had a statement, but I'm going to throw it out
because Greg has done such a great job of
the basics that I think there's absolutely no point in reiterating what he's already said. I just noted
a couple of topics that kind of remain concerns for me. I just want to make sure that we deal with.
One is just to express my support for the shared municipal services approach. I appreciate that that
seems to be the direction that a lot of this conversation has gone. We have been working with
We have a city council has a special committee on fiscal committee and we have our financial advisors
reading financial. We've been working together to model a lot of these same scenarios as well. And it's
remarkable how close, I mean obviously the assumptions are a little different and the numbers are a
little different.
But we've come up with 1.09% as our break even, but that's clearly just some difference in assumptions
and very similar numbers to your fire and EMS as well. So I think that's heartening that we're at least
all agreeing on numbers that would keep us whole. And I do think that keeping the local government units
whole so that we
can continue to provide the services that we need remains a possibility. Just a couple of the other
concerns I want to make sure that are just at least under consideration. The PSAP rate, the public safety
answering point rate, that's kind of an odd one because the money goes to the county, but through an
interlocal agreement
currently the money is then or so at least some of it is distributed to the city who then operates the
dispatch center. The interlocal agreement is in desperate need of a
of a redo. So we definitely need to do that. But I want to make sure that this kind of transfer of revenues
doesn't get lost, because clearly dispatch is an absolutely key service that every one of us depends
on literally for our lives. Schools and libraries, I think we've already talked about how important
it is to keep them whole. It sounds like schools may have some alternate statutory paths that they're
working on, which is great.
But I do think that it's important that we do that. I think before we make any decisions on rates, we
do have the AGI information for municipalities. This is the geofencing that Greg talked about. Our Reedy
partners have done some modeling, and they
They have come up with estimates using the census and ACS data that are very similar to. They're not
identical to those that FSG have come up with. But FSG's numbers are well within the error bars that
Reedy has provided us. But I think before we make any real decisions, the state, the DOR, which does
have the data ultimately, needs to be able to provide that to us. Otherwise, we are kind of flying blind.
I do have a little bit of concern about the lack of structure for the fire and EMS rate. I know that
there's a desire to keep that flexible. I just want to make sure that
If it is flexible, though, we still are able to come up with something that's more long term so that
we can make budgeting decisions. Greg mentioned the dates of distribution, that that clearly needs to
be cleaned up statutorily, since the DLGF seems to be under the mistaken understanding that the distributions
start in 2030. And then also, I'm glad that Noel brought up the Ellitsville reorganization. I think
we need to have a good understanding of
of how the Ellitsville reorganization would affect particularly the opt-in rates before we would come
to any kind of decision. So thank you all for allowing us this opportunity to talk about the subject,
and I'm happy to continue the discussion. Thanks. That's what I'll say.
I will quickly address the piece that point that you made, which is a great one. We had the chief of
police here addressing the county council's budget hearings and the very same topic came up. That interlocal
desperately needs to be addressed. And we had that very same conversation. So it's nice to know that
the city of Bloomington and Monroe County on the same page.
All right, I'm going to give a brief statement here, and I'm going to read my statement because the
way that this statute is written gives immense power to the seven members of the county council. We
are aware of this. It makes at least me, I'll speak personally for this, pretty uncomfortable to be
given that much power and control over the 41 taxing units that exist here in Monroe County.
I just wanted to remind everyone that I am Peter Iverson. I am the President Pro Tem of the Monroe County
Council. I am District 1 elected official and President of the Monroe County
long-term finance committee, kind of a sister organization to the one that Mr. McKim mentioned. And
I have been appointed through a voting process by the Monroe County Council to chair these must meetings.
I want to take a few minutes just to express how the council views why we're here, how the process is
going to move forward, that we understand it, and we want to try and give as clear a roadmap to you
all on what to expect going forward.
On August 25th of this year, the Monroe County Council adopted Resolution 2026-31, formally convening
this Municipal Unit Strategic Task Force or the MUST for Monroe County. We think this is vitally important.
We want to be talking with you. We want to collaborate with you. This is our community and we want to
be in dialogue with you.
This task force, of course, exists under Indiana Code Section 6-3.6-3-13, created this year by the House
Enrolled Act 1210. It gives us the option to create this body, and of course, we are required by that
same statute that all of us reach unanimous agreement on any type of statement that comes forward.
I do want to reiterate something that Greg mentioned. An agreement is not required. And what is required
is that we have a conversation openly and collaboratively. And at least from the county council's perspective
today is about starting that process the right way. I've been getting a lot of questions about what
this is all about. This is a complex topic. And as we saw from the 11 or 12 slides that FSG has put
together, this is not easy to understand.
And if you're not engaged in talks about property tax and income tax on a regular basis, this is pretty
complicated stuff. So I just want to go over that in 2025, Senate Enrolled Act 1, it created a brand
new framework for adopting and distributing local income tax. The Monroe County Council has been really
struggling with the losses that we've been experiencing to hit our budgetary goals. But in particular,
that bill lowered the
the total rate cap. It eliminated the old property tax relief rate, and it split rates into separate
categories that Greg showed on one of his slides for county services, fire and EMS, non-municipal units,
and municipal services. This year, House and World Act 1210 delayed that new framework. This is an important
point, because you've heard Greg Guterres say this from FSG. You've heard the city say this. The legislature
is about to meet again.
We don't know what's coming down the pike, but we know that things are coming down the pike. So we were
looking at House Enrolled Act 1210 that was passed this last year. New rates were adopted. It also gives
city and towns the ability to petition for county wide means of rate, which we've covered already tonight.
And so as we're looking to January of 2027, we know that the Indian legislature will convene their biannual
budget session. The county council is going to be watching that closely.
as I'm sure all of you will as well, we have every reason to believe that changes are going to be made.
So for that reason, the county wishes to preserve maximum flexibility as the future is so uncertain.
So as I conclude, in short, the county council believes that this is our chance to shape decisions that
affect us all rather than have them made for us up in Indianapolis.
This process lets us coordinate long-term financial planning across every unit in the county, evaluate
how future lit decisions affect each one of us and our taxpayers, and honestly, that last slide the
FSG presented, the impact on taxpayers, is deeply important to the county council.
absolutely know that inflation is going up. We know that the grocery store is more expensive. We know
that the gas station is more expensive. Having an open and honest conversation about tax rates is vitally
important so we don't spring this on our population. We also know this is not going to be a one meeting
process. Whether it's through the Musk framework or whether it's through conversations we build on these
relationships,
We, the County Council, is dedicated to working from a shared understanding of a legislative framework.
We're dedicated to gathering real data, whether that's revenue projections, assessed values,
debt obligations, or current firing EMS funding with support available from our partners. And throughout,
the County Council is dedicated to keep talking. The relationships that we build here
may matter as much as any of the numbers that are in Greg's report. So thank you, and I've hit my time.
Do I need any help? No, sir. You did a fine job. Excellent. What we're going to do is then ask the other
taxing districts to come to the podium. That's correct. And that's what I've been told by Kim, and basically
introduce yourself. All right, so we're going to start here in the NatU Hill Room.
If you would like to come forward, either take, if you could take a seat at the table, that way the
cameras can hit you better and pull the microphones up to your mouth. Seeing as no one is coming. Hold
on one second. Hold on one second. We're going to start on teams. We see that Dustin Dillard, who is
the fire protection district chief,
has his hand raised. Chief Dillard, thank you for being here. You've got three minutes. TSD, can we
adjust the clock to three, please? Good afternoon, everyone. I won't need the clock today. I'll be very
quick. In fact, I'm getting ready to haul the safety trailer to Monroe Hospital for a touch of truck
event from three to seven. So I will have to get going. But
I appreciate being here. I appreciate the opportunity to be a part of the conversation. The only thing
that I would like to highlight is this is truly an opportunity in the future to fix our ambulance needs
in this county. And I think that that's a big portion of what I would like to contribute in conversations
is getting our fire and EMS services together, taking a look at what that looks like countywide and
considering that in these measures. So thanks for letting me be here.
Thank you so much. And I will point out to the public, if you want a broader discussion of just how
interlinked our EMS services are, watch the budget session where the Monroe County Fire Protection District
was talking. There's new technology that gets everyone closer linked. It's really interesting. Anything
to add about firing EMS? All right. We have a township trustee president here. The floor is yours, sir.
Yeah, thank you. The Perry Township trustee, Leon Gordon, I'm here as a representative of the Monroe
County Township Association, joined by a few of my counterparts on online and both here present. I'm
going to go ahead and just run through it because I don't have much time. We're here to ask for the
continued support of townships through lit. In my opinion, in our opinion, this is not a choice, but
a community necessity. Most Hoosiers, if not most Americans, are just one missed paycheck away from
facing a crisis in their stability. That includes me.
Townships are here for those who hit with unexpected loss of employment and income. In a community notorious
for its summer economic downturn with the ebbs and flows of the IU academic year and the displacement
from work or the dramatically reduced hours that translate to lower take-home pay, townships fill the
gap. With the time off of work to care for a sick child or the medical emergency leading to lost wages,
townships fill the gap.
Or now, in recent times, when a senior has suddenly lost up to a third of their income due to recent
legislative changes in Medicaid and Medicare, and they have to choose between rent, food, or keeping
the lights on, townships fill the gap. Now is not the time to put townships in a precarious financial
situation. Our loss of lit would do just that. So how important is lit for townships? Lit amounts to
roughly one-third, 30 percent of our annual fiscal operations for each township.
With outlet townships, existing capacity of community support would be significantly diminished. What
is that support? What do we do? We provide rent, utilities, food, burial support for people who can't
afford to bury their loved ones, transportation, medical needs. Just two days ago, I had a single mother
needing specialized formula for her premature-born child after her SNAP benefits were hacked in a completely
different state. Not only this, townships also serve as a gateway to connecting with emergency services
resources here locally. We stand as the evaluative financial integrity. We evaluate the financial integrity
of families' needs, which becomes a resource that they can use to approach other agencies for support.
We provide emergency housing in the event of emergency disasters like fires and tornadoes where American
Red Cross would do 2 days. We do weeks, often helping people bridge back to stability. We also do things
you guys might not even think of.
cemetery upkeep and care and resolve noxious weed complaints and property disputes for boundaries outside
of municipal units. The economic reality facing Hoosiers is why township stability matters now more
than ever. I talked a bit about the legislative change, but in recent census data, in this area, 60.6
percent of raiders in Morrone County are cost burdened. More than 30 percent of their income goes to
housing. What is more is 35.6
that's more than 50% of their income just going to basic needs. I see it on the applications that come
through our door. We are a critical line of defense and a cost saving intervention.
financial strain on emergency and civil systems. We prevent costly evictions, the administrative burden
and the fiscal overwhelming of court systems and shelter systems. It costs more to keep people housed
than it is to bring them back once they are homeless. We address food insecurity. We keep the heat running,
the lights on, and we address, again, those needs in unincorporated areas that are off municipal radars.
So what do townships need?
Township assistance is outpacing our budgets. It's the highest year we've seen. And as I spoke to several
of my counterparts, we all tell the same story. In twenty twenty six, I certified lit for townships
was about one point six million. And the cost of living is only going in one direction. Our burden for
providing relief will only continue to grow.
We believe a 2 million lit distribution would ensure this critical community line of defense remains
strong and give us room to explore additional funding streams and strategies to enhance our
cost effectiveness of our service delivery. And in closing, I'll say I encourage you to come by and
see us. I noticed that other units were given 5 minutes to speak and some asked to send data.
As for ours, come and learn about the families we serve. Thank you.
And before you leave, does anybody have any questions for the Township Association? I have one question,
Mr. Gordon. If the townships no longer exist, who's going to pick up the bag? Well, we leave that to
the good graces of the continuum of care and the nonprofits that have to fundraise and write for grants
and generally rely on us as a first point of contact.
And so even with their support now, their full support, folks are still struggling. So often we work
in tandem and partnership. What we provide and what the limitations we we have, they they they pick
up. So thank you for speaking. Thank you. In all making, I understand township budgets a lot. We do
because we do. And so I hear you loud and clear and everything you said I saw in other township.
your piece of paper we have suggested to the auditors that this should they have said that any formal
piece of paper if you're willing to leave that should be enclosed as part of the statement and it could
be part of the attachment okay so would you like to leave your written statement it's got a lot of chicken
scratch on it that's a script we love chicken
Sure, if I can get a copy for myself, that'd be great. Or take your time and type it up and send it
in. Oh, no problem. Send it to the auditor. Gotcha. And she's the official record. Am I correct, Bree?
Okay. All right. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for speaking. Is there anybody else in the
NatU Hill Room or online that wishes to speak? Please come forward. You're welcome here.
I know you don't need an introduction, but for the record, would you please state your name? Yes, my
name's Rita Barrow. I am the trustee at Van Buren Township. I'm not going to go through any more than
what Leon has already gone through. So what I am going to say to you is you ask a question, what happens
if townships go away? County gets it.
you are going to have a mess, okay? I have, this is my 16th year of being Township Trustee. I love what
I do because I can help people without it coming out of my income. So it's taxpayer in money that's
being spent for a very good reason. Bottom line, lit keeps the Township general
from taking it from Township General into Township Assist. When you do this, you're taking away from
Township General, which is going to diminish the people that are in there working to make sure that
this does work. With the merging of townships, I'm a little concerned about how they get to and from
in another township. On top of that, we have a CIP that we have to turn in and make sure that any of
our money, 30% of that money, goes to roads now. We haven't had roads since the 18th century. And all
of a sudden now, we have it. The other thing I want to know, and maybe you can tell me here,
County can have a 2.9, correct? Lit money. And so can the city, correct? No. It's incorrect. Okay. I
was wondering about this because if the city goes with the county, is it 2.9 for everybody? So maybe
did you pick up our, did you get a copy of our packet?
Yes, I did. Let's go to the page if we can go to page five. And I did want to ask each township, did
you see our write up and what we put in for the township? That there is a dilemma with the 0.05. OK.
OK. And so just keep that in mind. But page five here
If you look at the top, what you were asking, Jeff, the single municipal rate instead of 1.04, the city
could have 1.2 on there instead of that number. So you'd cross that out, you'd put 1.2 up to 1.2 if
they decided to do that. So it would then be added to the 1.34 in this hypothetical.
and so it would be 2.38, it would be up by 16 basis points from there. So it's not, we're not pancaking
on top of the two where it fits within this 238. So what we have said is we don't believe the 2.7
or the 2.9 threshold is going to be an issue yet. And that's why we did the 2.8
calculation is checked, there's numerous caps along the road of LIT. And so you, townships are capped
by the 05. We said that off ramp looks really, really bumpy. We don't know if we want to take that.
We would suggest that off ramp be looked at. Okay. All right. Well, again, thank you for explaining all this.
I really, really think that you guys need, and I'm pushing this toward the county council. We hear you.
That townships are a major thing, a very major thing to residents that are in need and residents that
know that there are people in need. But this is something that the county will have to take over if this
takes off and we go because, like I said, they're taking away everything from us from the state. So
I want you to just really consider this and know that the county council has the authority to make this.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
All right, we're going to go back onto teams and Mr. McGlasson has their hand raised. If you could unmute
and state your name for the record, you'll have three minutes. Yeah, my name is Tom McGlasson. I'm the
director of the Waste Reduction District. And I think the documents that Mr. Guitartas presented, we
were under our former name, Monroe County Solid Waste Management District.
I'll be brief. I know we're a little over on time, but I do appreciate the opportunity to be here and
applaud everyone for being proactive on this issue. The district received LIT, it's probably been 20
years or so ago since that. We stopped accepting LIT and we don't currently accept it. But as people
have said, there's changes coming. We are primarily property tax funded,
Um, about two thirds of our revenue, uh, is from property and excise taxes and, um, don't know the full
impact of, of, of, you know, what, what that's going to mean to the district financially, um, as these
impacts start to hit. And, you know, I just want to say, you know, our, we, we provide programs and
services that are available to all the residents of Monroe County, uh, regardless of whether they're
in an incorporated or unincorporated area. And I just, you know, exiting just want us, you know,
Keep us in mind, we certainly hope to not need to be able to come and ask for LIT, but the possibility
exists. I don't want this organization to get overlooked in this process. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.
Robles. Any questions or comments? Joe, I would like to make a comment. Tom, you, FSG and I, we know
each other. We've helped you and we've helped do some of your buns in the past.
I have seen as I've gone across the state that multiple waste districts are now losing revenue. And
matter of fact, of all time high this year, I'm looking at establishing a new tax rate for two. And
so are you seeing that today? And I think that's the point about keeping at least part of this in reserve
because waste districts are
finding financial challenges coming here fairly quickly that they've never had before in the past. We're
we're seeing some of that. I mean, obviously the you know the Senate Bill one as those impacts have
started to hit. You know what we're where we're seeing it is is an increase in the cap impact. The circuit
breaker is hitting us. You know the for for 27.
Um, you know, the growth quotient help offset a large portion of that. Um, and so we, we've not had
a major financial impact, um, to this point, um, from the changes that are, that are being, you know,
phased in at this point. But, uh, as you said, uh, there'll be additional legislation coming, um,
in January. Uh, and we'll see, you know, see where that goes and ultimately what that impact is on us.
Thank you, Tom. Thank you. All right.
Is there anybody else here in the New Hill room that wants to come and speak or on Teams? Seeing none,
that seems to naturally lead us to our next steps agenda item, where we are going to be, I think, looking
at meeting again on an October date.
or we can talk also about the statement and we could at this point if you want as well. So what I was
so what I'm suggesting when we get to our next meet okay is number one I think this is a great thing
to follow a form and this is the AIC DLGF form. Jeff I think you've seen it and I think you think it's
I won't put words in your mouth but I think it's an okay place to start and so
If you recognize most of the first part, we would just fill out. I'm suggesting bring what we've done
is we tell everybody when we have two meetings who showed up at the two meetings. So in other words,
in this first section, we would put the first week. OK, and who showed up? The Alex Ville put treasure
in Sinesville and we would put nothing in the no the vote come and then we would put the second meeting
the meeting record. I've seen everybody put a
a brief summary or attached the minutes of this meeting to this document along with any documents that
are handed in. On the next page, page four, I'm suggesting unless the must group overrides what I'm
suggesting, I'm suggesting we don't put a right. Okay. And so I heard Jeff, you did a nod. What do you
agree or disagree?
I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree.
I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree.
and look at it, what I'd like you to do is read it, think about it. And, you know, we could put in there,
like I said, additional sentence about if the boundaries change due to consolidation, we wouldn't want
those boundaries to be taken into account. Right. I definitely think that that needs to be a consideration
that we put in this statement since we won't know anything until November.
here's what I'd suggest. And I did this in another municipality. Just give us a sentence or two if you'd
like and run it. You know, disseminate it through the auditor's office. She'll get it to all the must
group members and you know you. You look at that statement. OK, and in adding it here, the peace app
distribution is a is a tough one. I don't think I would add the complexity of that right within this.
But I think, Jeff, you bring up the point that, yes, when there's interlocals and trading dollars, my
understanding is, as we go forward, that won't be precluded. And we took it into account in our numbers.
So we would just preserve that concept. And maybe you guys need to revisit the concept in writing. But
I don't think numerically, it needs to be in here. And I think it's covered.
So you included it in the county rate that yes, that that's great. Yeah, I just wanted to use the opportunity
that everybody was here to get make sure it stays at the forefront. Yeah, so I would suggest unless
there's a roadblock between now and the next meeting, your next meeting may be, hey, this all looks
great to the county, to the two towns and to the city of Bloomington.
and you vote on it. And do I believe you need five more meetings? No, I think you need one more and
you move forward. And you could always say, you know, in the October meeting, wow, if we found something,
if something fell in from the heavens or wherever before November 2nd, you know, or, you know, we could
meet again if we had to. So. All right. Pursuant to that idea,
I would propose that we meet again on a Friday afternoon at one o'clock and I'm looking at the 23rd
and I just if you could all just Is is that a time that you all could meet again? Seinsville is good
with that City of Bloomington is good with that
October. October, OK. I'm gonna have to double check my sketch. Well, yeah, double check yours because
we want to get that in before Election Day. And if we and that you're good. October 23rd, yes, yeah,
which would be way before election. OK, yeah. Alright, we will pencil that in and then double check
with everybody. Mr Cockrell. It's not about that. I guess we just had a question.
that we were going to do one of these. Forms for each meeting. Is that kind of what we were here, sir?
OK, one form. Again, you would take that form and it's expandable. OK, and in the front, pretty obvious
in the back here we didn't reach any conclusion there, but here just list the first meeting. Second
meeting it'll expand OK and who was in attendance?
and then the meeting record you type in there, the first and second meeting, the forms pretty interactive.
I've done it. But we would expect a statement like this maybe at every meeting to be included. No, that
is the statement that we're going to attach to this and we would have a vote on. OK, that's what needs
to be unanimous. Doesn't everybody agree up here? That's what we would be doing. OK, I'm glad I clarified
that. Yeah, we're not confused. Yeah. All right.
We are going to meet again. It looks like on October the 23rd at 1 PM right here in the NatU Hill room.
It will be noticed the auditor's office will be sending each of you an email alerting you of this. So
thank you all for your attention. Thank you all for the information. Thank you to FSG for all of the
details. This meeting of the must group is adjourned.