WEBVTT 00:00:00.770 --> 00:00:08.964 - all right welcome everyone to the municipal unit strategic task force or as we call it by its acronym 00:00:08.964 --> 00:00:17.480 - must today is Friday October the 23rd 2026 1 p.m. in the historic Natu Hill meeting room here in downtown 00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:25.675 - Bloomington in the picturesque Monroe County where the leaves are turning we are joined here by every 00:00:25.675 --> 00:00:30.736 - single statutory member of the must including Leah Feigl to my 00:00:30.736 --> 00:00:37.265 - right, Noel Conyer to my left, Mr. Jeff McKim down on the end, and myself, Peter Iverson. If you do 00:00:37.265 --> 00:00:43.858 - not have an agenda for those of you in the NatU Hill Room, there are some on the back. And for those 00:00:43.858 --> 00:00:50.387 - of you joining us on Teams, you can find that on the county's website. That's in.gov slash counties 00:00:50.387 --> 00:00:56.981 - slash Monroe. We've got a good deal of business to get to today. So I'm going to pass the microphone 00:00:56.981 --> 00:01:00.702 - all the way down to the end to financial services group. 00:01:04.450 --> 00:01:19.107 - I believe addressing the statement in stepping through it and then going through and listening to any 00:01:19.107 --> 00:01:29.310 - further comments and or amendments that we might want to make to this. 00:01:29.474 --> 00:01:39.713 - So I'm assuming everybody has a copy. If not, I have extra copies just in case. So I'll pass those. 00:01:39.713 --> 00:01:50.258 - And then hi, Molly. Glad you could join us. And here I'll send some down this way in case you guys are 00:01:50.258 --> 00:01:57.118 - interested too. This is the result of what we did on 9-17 and then 00:01:57.570 --> 00:02:06.050 - recommended on 10-5, and so I'm gonna go through it slowly and hopefully we can all read together with 00:02:06.050 --> 00:02:14.449 - me, especially if I mispronounce something. The municipal utility or unit, there we go, I'm always in 00:02:14.449 --> 00:02:21.694 - the utility world, Municipal Unit Strategic Task Force, M.U.S., that's the formal name, 00:02:21.858 --> 00:02:31.146 - of Monroe County has concluded it does not have enough information to sign off on rates for 2029 and 00:02:31.146 --> 00:02:40.894 - I'll pause there and I think that's saying that in general we do not have enough AGI we don't have enough 00:02:41.250 --> 00:02:49.854 - information, all of that to be able to address what we might put into effect for 2029. As you know, 00:02:49.854 --> 00:02:58.887 - I passed out in other meetings what we call illustrative rates and how it might how might be illustrated 00:02:58.887 --> 00:03:07.491 - for that the city of Bloomington on its own and not. And so we went through all of that information 00:03:07.491 --> 00:03:09.470 - in the prior meetings. 00:03:09.730 --> 00:03:19.130 - I'll continue on as proposed by the state of Indiana, obviously. The task force asks the state to consider 00:03:19.130 --> 00:03:26.334 - increasing the nonmunicipal civil taxing unit rate cap. I'm going to pause there. 00:03:26.626 --> 00:03:34.020 - because I've gotten, having done this now in about eight or 10 counties, I've gotten the question, does 00:03:34.020 --> 00:03:41.129 - school corporations, and actually somebody wrote an article and said school corporations fall under 00:03:41.129 --> 00:03:48.593 - the non municipal civil taxing unit rate. It does not as developed by the state legislature. The schools 00:03:48.593 --> 00:03:53.854 - are not part of this, but as you will see in the statement later, we have 00:03:54.498 --> 00:04:09.913 - they're not part of the point to put them within it. So they are not part of the 0.20. So. May I continue? 00:04:09.913 --> 00:04:21.150 - Thank you. No problem. Um. To allow the so it says the municipal rate cap and 00:04:21.250 --> 00:04:29.318 - how it pleases. The point there is, you know, in the make-up of the point 2.0, you've got five basis 00:04:29.318 --> 00:04:34.910 - points for the library, you've got five basis points for solid waste. 00:04:35.106 --> 00:04:42.422 - And so what might happen in 2029 if we were given the latitude, maybe we don't need 0.05 for solid waste 00:04:42.422 --> 00:04:49.529 - and we could put a little more towards the library. We could put a little more towards the airport or 00:04:49.529 --> 00:04:53.918 - something like that. So that's the whole point of that phrase. 00:04:54.242 --> 00:05:01.801 - Okay. The issue appears to originate from the group cap of the group rate cap of 0.05 for townships 00:05:01.801 --> 00:05:09.436 - and library, not the total cap of 0.20. So there's my point is that when we looked at the numbers in 00:05:09.436 --> 00:05:17.675 - for illustrative purposes, the 0.05 wasn't making townships whole. It wasn't really covering the Bloomington 00:05:17.675 --> 00:05:20.094 - library. So flexibility in that 00:05:20.482 --> 00:05:28.473 - not really changing the cap, but having flexibility would be very helpful. Distribution on population 00:05:28.473 --> 00:05:31.998 - township would mean about 31 basis points to 00:05:32.258 --> 00:05:40.524 - all to be made whole. Well, that's what it would take. I don't think we're proposing at this point in 00:05:40.524 --> 00:05:48.790 - time that cap, but we also don't know what the AGI will be exactly in the future. So that is where we 00:05:48.790 --> 00:05:58.110 - identified a specific issue and that the cap would not be high enough. Then it says the task force asked the state 00:05:58.210 --> 00:06:06.614 - to maintain flexibility for fire and EMS for tax distributions. What we've seen here, and we've seen 00:06:06.614 --> 00:06:15.268 - countless places, is that the formula that allows service territory and population really doesn't cover 00:06:15.268 --> 00:06:23.422 - what some townships may be giving to fire territories or fire districts. And what is likely to be 00:06:23.554 --> 00:06:33.054 - the fire and EMS need in 2029. So that's why that is brought up there. So the task force also believes 00:06:33.054 --> 00:06:42.739 - that any future legislation should address keeping units of government whole by allowing them to recover 00:06:42.739 --> 00:06:52.147 - current lit at the time of imposition. What we meant there was, and I think I told you the definition 00:06:52.147 --> 00:06:53.438 - of made whole 00:06:53.538 --> 00:07:03.555 - under possible future lit distributions could be lit itself, what you get now in all of the different 00:07:03.555 --> 00:07:11.902 - buckets of lit, but it might also be some of the loss that we've experienced in SB1. 00:07:12.002 --> 00:07:20.928 - And we gave an analysis where that would raise the tax rate in total. So we're saying at least at a 00:07:20.928 --> 00:07:30.032 - minimum, please allow us the flexibility to recover the current lit and make everybody whole. So that 00:07:30.032 --> 00:07:37.886 - would include Steinsville and Ellitsville and City of Bloomington, not only the county. 00:07:38.178 --> 00:07:47.176 - The way I'm looking at this statement, it's not the county, it's the county as a whole, meaning libraries, 00:07:47.176 --> 00:07:56.006 - townships, cities and towns. Okay, the task force asks the state to give counties the ability to include 00:07:56.006 --> 00:08:03.070 - school corporations in the tax rate as they are currently are ineligible for future 00:08:03.426 --> 00:08:11.584 - lit distribution. That's a given. They're not part of the rate structure as been proposed. And by the 00:08:11.584 --> 00:08:19.822 - way, I've had many counties say at least please consider this. Okay. So that's been par for the course 00:08:19.822 --> 00:08:21.822 - using a golfing analogy. 00:08:22.338 --> 00:08:30.242 - concerns have grown as the procedures for future consolidation annexation and the task force would like 00:08:30.242 --> 00:08:38.298 - clear guidance on to how we would affect tax and position and distribution. That's addressing Alexville's 00:08:38.298 --> 00:08:44.606 - concern that it may change overnight after the election and may grow and obviously 00:08:44.802 --> 00:08:52.959 - Any illustrations we use today did not take that into account. And so you really, again, would not want 00:08:52.959 --> 00:09:01.193 - to fix yourself to any rate because the whole mix could change depending on what happens in Ellitsville. 00:09:01.193 --> 00:09:04.958 - Okay. So the task force would like to postpone. 00:09:05.890 --> 00:09:13.498 - Would like to postpone any decision until final statutes are set by state legislation and as Understand 00:09:13.498 --> 00:09:20.887 - as it understand should changes are to come. There's no doubt about it. I think you've all Contacted 00:09:20.887 --> 00:09:28.349 - your own legislators and you've heard there's going to be changes in January February March There may 00:09:28.349 --> 00:09:31.422 - be changes in the next session after this 00:09:31.618 --> 00:09:40.380 - one coming up. And I do know they're working on some corrections and some things they want to do. So 00:09:40.380 --> 00:09:49.316 - what we're saying is that, you know, if we said anything today, like we would not want the 1.2 for the 00:09:49.316 --> 00:09:58.686 - county or we would not want the 1.2 for the city, that would really put you, in my opinion, in a bad place. 00:09:59.042 --> 00:10:07.588 - especially if future caps came in based upon what you might say. And so I'm cautioning everybody to 00:10:07.588 --> 00:10:16.135 - be careful if you ever did that. There are some counties that have done that. I don't think I would 00:10:16.135 --> 00:10:17.502 - recommend that. 00:10:18.050 --> 00:10:25.169 - That's it. So what we'd like to do now is maybe what we can Jeff will put you on the spot if we could. 00:10:25.169 --> 00:10:32.219 - And is there is there something you think we need to tweak or something you want to delete or help it 00:10:32.219 --> 00:10:33.118 - help us out. 00:10:49.314 --> 00:10:57.565 - is the need for AGI and other related information before we can make a decision. And we simply don't 00:10:57.565 --> 00:11:05.816 - have that. We don't know. The county knows roughly what its AGI is, or at least what it was. But the 00:11:05.816 --> 00:11:14.149 - cities and towns really were totally just guesstimating based on old census data. So help me out. How 00:11:14.149 --> 00:11:17.662 - would you want to tweak? So that might be. 00:11:18.594 --> 00:11:27.189 - I mean, that might be just part of the last sentence until final statutes are set, and AGI and other 00:11:27.189 --> 00:11:35.868 - related information is provided to all units. I think that's awesome. And for people out there in the 00:11:35.868 --> 00:11:39.102 - public, AGI is adjusted gross income. 00:11:56.290 --> 00:12:12.631 - be determined. How about that? Determined. What we may want to do is ask for everybody's comment on 00:12:12.631 --> 00:12:25.214 - that amendment and go amendment by amendment. That may be the best way to do 00:12:25.346 --> 00:12:38.022 - I'm not sure. Maybe we dress one and two. I'll defer to my perfect. So comment Leo will go with you 00:12:38.022 --> 00:12:51.966 - that comment on that. Do you believe we should keep this or not? Keep this. Change what we've just discussed. 00:12:56.866 --> 00:13:05.901 - something, Peter, we want to do. I think the language here is really important, particularly to capture 00:13:05.901 --> 00:13:14.675 - what Mr. McKim was saying, that knowing what the AGI is, is important, not just for one taxing unit, 00:13:14.675 --> 00:13:23.623 - but for all the taxing units. Because he makes a great point. We could look up the AGI for the county, 00:13:23.623 --> 00:13:26.142 - but it's really hard to find 00:13:26.242 --> 00:13:35.564 - or to estimate the AGI for other taxing units. And we kind of discussed this just briefly right before 00:13:35.564 --> 00:13:44.796 - it ended. And the only comment I had is also remember even the AGI for the county is 18 months old or 00:13:44.796 --> 00:13:54.118 - whatever. So we need current up to date AGI for all entities. So now do we have someone that can amend 00:13:54.118 --> 00:13:55.838 - this and print it? 00:14:01.282 --> 00:14:20.770 - teams. Okay. Our staff attorney is awesome. Because my goal would be have this printed out and have 00:14:20.770 --> 00:14:27.006 - it in your hands when you vote. 00:14:37.026 --> 00:14:47.621 - So maybe we should go ahead in further. Furthermore, say that, you know, I really appreciate this amendment 00:14:47.621 --> 00:14:57.824 - paragraph. I think it's important. No, no. Do you agree with him, including the amendment? Yes, I think 00:14:57.824 --> 00:15:03.710 - that definitely needs to be included in there. Perfect. OK. 00:15:08.962 --> 00:15:20.781 - Yes, I agree that that amendment for the AIG should be put in there. So while Molly's working on that 00:15:20.781 --> 00:15:31.326 - amendment, or do we need to help you with that? Okay, so Jeff, is there another amendment? 00:15:38.882 --> 00:15:51.418 - I know there was some concern about the concept of being made whole some question about exactly what 00:15:51.418 --> 00:16:04.202 - that meant, and if that was really what we were trying to get at. So I guess I just raised that rather 00:16:04.202 --> 00:16:08.670 - than proposing an actual amendment. 00:16:09.186 --> 00:16:15.976 - I think even though with that explanation, I think letting, because this report from my understanding 00:16:15.976 --> 00:16:22.833 - that we're sending is going to the legislators to help them make the changes and all the stuff for the 00:16:22.833 --> 00:16:29.491 - local income tax, correct? Or at least consider. Right. So I think, and I can appreciate what other 00:16:29.491 --> 00:16:34.750 - counties are doing, but I feel like from Monroe County, the intent made whole. 00:16:35.170 --> 00:16:42.647 - some people in the public are not going to understand that and if they hear that they could have a different 00:16:42.647 --> 00:16:49.713 - intent of what that means. So I'm working on what the language should be but I think it should be more 00:16:49.713 --> 00:16:56.572 - of being you know able to sustain our services and making sure that we're financially stable and we 00:16:56.572 --> 00:17:00.894 - have somewhat more predictable revenue sources from the lit or 00:17:01.506 --> 00:17:10.956 - So that's the intent. I don't know what the exact language would be to change that, but. Yeah, because 00:17:10.956 --> 00:17:20.223 - originally made whole by allowing to recover current right now. And I understand what the intent is, 00:17:20.223 --> 00:17:29.489 - but I have a problem with that specific two words made whole. And so. We could either further define 00:17:29.489 --> 00:17:30.590 - make whole. 00:17:31.010 --> 00:17:39.141 - I think if you sustainability in the future for future revenues and things like that, I mean, that's 00:17:39.141 --> 00:17:47.594 - really going to come back to when you start approving the rates on an actual basis because they're going 00:17:47.594 --> 00:17:55.806 - to say, well, we don't know what that is, you know, when they got that. So we could, anybody have any 00:17:55.806 --> 00:18:00.958 - words of wisdom? I think my fear really quick not to interrupt. 00:18:01.058 --> 00:18:08.476 - My fear is is I do not want the local income tax and with our responsibility as being the task force 00:18:08.476 --> 00:18:15.895 - that is helping to give the legislators the changes that need to happen because clearly the way that 00:18:15.895 --> 00:18:18.686 - it's currently set up is not going to 00:18:19.362 --> 00:18:25.353 - work 100% for every county. So we need to make some adjustments to it. And I can appreciate that. My 00:18:25.353 --> 00:18:31.404 - concern is that when we're talking about Senate Enrolled Act 1 and then the lit changes, I don't want 00:18:31.404 --> 00:18:37.691 - it to seem like the intent is that we're taking it from one bucket and putting it into another. So that's 00:18:37.691 --> 00:18:44.039 - really my main concern about the make whole comments at the end of the day, what it boils down to. Because 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:46.174 - I don't want, I know that obviously 00:18:46.370 --> 00:18:53.196 - all of us up here, we need revenues from various funding streams to make our budgets work. So I can 00:18:53.196 --> 00:19:00.705 - appreciate that. But I really want to make sure that we're taking into account that these funds, specifically 00:19:00.705 --> 00:19:07.599 - the local income tax funds, come from our working residents. And the concern for the made whole just 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:13.470 - that's why it doesn't sit well with me. Jeff might have a comment or amendment. Well, 00:19:17.442 --> 00:19:25.349 - the definition, recover current lit at the time of imposition, sort of covers that issue. I mean, I 00:19:25.349 --> 00:19:33.256 - think that makes it clear that we're not trying to, as much as we might want to, compensate for the 00:19:33.256 --> 00:19:41.163 - property tax changes with income tax, which I think a lot of people are concerned about, because it 00:19:41.163 --> 00:19:43.614 - does wind up being regressive. 00:19:43.874 --> 00:19:50.911 - you know, it's shifting the burden from property owners to workers. And I think there's a lot of us 00:19:50.911 --> 00:19:58.301 - are concerned about that. So I guess I feel like you, in a way, that concern about the phrase made whole 00:19:58.301 --> 00:20:05.760 - is actually clarified later in the paragraph. Jeff, I wanted it to be somewhat fluid. From the standpoint 00:20:05.760 --> 00:20:11.390 - about, you know, maybe somebody makes an adjustment in the lit right next year. 00:20:11.650 --> 00:20:22.239 - in the year of imposition. Okay Maybe this gets proposed per push back a couple years. So when we said 00:20:22.239 --> 00:20:32.623 - in the year of imposition, you know, we might be a million dollars more than we are today as a group 00:20:32.623 --> 00:20:39.614 - or something. And so we thought it out to be. We want it to be also 00:20:42.114 --> 00:20:51.823 - The Mr. McKim's amendment is in red on the bottom. And then the conversation on the definition of made 00:20:51.823 --> 00:21:01.438 - whole is highlighted in yellow in the middle of the paragraph. And then the definition that Mr. McKim 00:21:01.438 --> 00:21:11.902 - was just referencing at the time of imposition is two lines down. Yeah. And I think you should highlight that. 00:21:12.738 --> 00:21:34.287 - made whole in the year of imposition. I think we captured what you were talking about, did we not? 00:21:34.287 --> 00:21:42.558 - We have to. Can you blow this one up? 00:21:43.298 --> 00:21:57.383 - Yes, yeah, I believe that. And then. And I just want to clarify that. In position in red, that language 00:21:57.383 --> 00:22:05.374 - is in the succeeding sentence or two sentences afterwards. 00:22:18.946 --> 00:22:27.510 - an amendment? Okay. Peter, do you have an amendment? I don't have an amendment, but I do. I think this 00:22:27.510 --> 00:22:35.991 - paragraph here, what you see on the screen, only that we heard at the last must meeting. I think that 00:22:35.991 --> 00:22:44.638 - this really captures that conversation. So I'm very happy with that and with this amendment at the end. 00:22:48.130 --> 00:22:58.056 - I don't have an amendment because I didn't. That usually I send that to legal to Here's my idea. Please 00:22:58.056 --> 00:23:07.982 - amend this for me. But so one of the other concerns I had. Well, I don't disagree with including school 00:23:07.982 --> 00:23:16.190 - corporations. Should we? Have a percentage or something. I feel like we're not giving 00:23:17.282 --> 00:23:27.841 - We don't have enough and we need to include all these people. I feel like in order for them to really 00:23:27.841 --> 00:23:38.296 - utilize this report and potentially make the changes that we want, we have to give them a little bit 00:23:38.296 --> 00:23:47.198 - more. It's just, it's very broad. So as we. Is that we could divide up that 0.2% that 00:23:47.586 --> 00:23:54.387 - you know, with the different taxing units. There were so many permutations. There were so many ways 00:23:54.387 --> 00:24:01.529 - to take that pie and cut it into different slices. I would really be hesitant to say, well, that certain 00:24:01.529 --> 00:24:08.670 - pie slice needs to be so big, because we just don't know what it is in relation to the other pie slices. 00:24:18.434 --> 00:24:24.941 - have this with the legislators. When an idea is given, school corporations being a part of the lit, 00:24:24.941 --> 00:24:31.579 - if we don't give them some type of direction, we don't know where that's gonna go and what it's gonna 00:24:31.579 --> 00:24:38.477 - take away from, or like you said, with the pie. So that's why I just, and again, I can be the lone ranger 00:24:38.477 --> 00:24:45.115 - over here with my thought on that, I'm fine with that. But I feel like some direction would be useful 00:24:45.115 --> 00:24:47.262 - for the legislators, at least in 00:24:47.650 --> 00:24:55.803 - you know, if we feel strongly about that, we need to give them something. You know, are the corporations 00:24:55.803 --> 00:25:04.344 - here asking for us to include them in lit? Because, you know, to some degree, I get that in some communities, 00:25:04.344 --> 00:25:12.574 - particularly those that were Cajet counties, have more of a history of the schools being included in lit. 00:25:12.674 --> 00:25:18.583 - But those of us who are Cohen counties, that's never been part of the school funding infrastructure. 00:25:18.583 --> 00:25:23.614 - And that does seem like a pretty radical change to the way that lit has been used in. 00:25:38.850 --> 00:25:47.539 - In particular, the Monroe County School Corporation. So R.B.B. wasn't did not provide this is my last 00:25:47.539 --> 00:25:56.312 - time. And so it could be great because first of all, it would only be an illustration rate and second. 00:25:56.312 --> 00:26:05.086 - We would have also correspond that we would not want it in the current camps because otherwise someone 00:26:05.410 --> 00:26:13.637 - lose in the current caps. So so we have said we recognize the school. We've been kind of dealing with 00:26:13.637 --> 00:26:21.945 - this and saying we recognize the school corporation should be considered. You guys, you know, are king 00:26:21.945 --> 00:26:30.494 - over the school corporation, not here, but the state legislature. They say they've got referendum rights. 00:26:30.494 --> 00:26:34.366 - So I mean, I've asked this question. And and so 00:26:34.626 --> 00:26:43.465 - I don't know where the, what the light at the end of the tunnel is for the school corporations at this 00:26:43.465 --> 00:26:52.219 - point in time. And keep in mind, I represent school corporation. And so, but I think if we go further 00:26:52.219 --> 00:27:00.887 - here, we've got to be careful that we don't damage ourself in that process. So I've thought about it 00:27:00.887 --> 00:27:02.174 - a lot, but so, 00:27:04.354 --> 00:27:16.424 - So then that would be. So that would be my concern, then, including the schools in the language for 00:27:16.424 --> 00:27:29.218 - this, then is that. If the legislators then decide to. Take away from some of our caps in order to create 00:27:29.218 --> 00:27:34.046 - that capacity. So one of two things, so 00:27:34.498 --> 00:27:43.579 - any imposition of the tax would most likely have to come through the county council. So that will have 00:27:43.579 --> 00:27:52.484 - to be determined or, now my mic may be doing it wrong. I think you. You could have mine. I think you 00:27:52.484 --> 00:28:01.918 - infected my mic. I have that effect on people. So that would be addressed in 2029, but we could easily add 00:28:02.018 --> 00:28:09.910 - that we need to be able to include the school corporations without detracting like. Like we did in other 00:28:09.910 --> 00:28:17.576 - places without detracting from the overall cap. I think I would be more comfortable with that because 00:28:17.576 --> 00:28:25.392 - I do believe that the schools. Need more capacity for revenue sources. I fully believe that, especially 00:28:25.392 --> 00:28:29.150 - with the freshman in high school. I feel like. We 00:28:31.490 --> 00:28:40.107 - And I mean, to include the school corporations in their tax rate as they are currently ineligible for 00:28:40.107 --> 00:28:48.556 - future lit distributions without something in there that says that we. Don't want to take away with 00:28:48.556 --> 00:28:57.342 - with what we have, because the caps show possibly we could say without decreasing the 2.9% overall cap. 00:28:59.906 --> 00:29:07.033 - that language is now on the screens for everyone to see. Molly, we're working you hard. Yeah, I think 00:29:07.033 --> 00:29:14.230 - that's totally appropriate. I think we all agree here that we want to see schools get the funding they 00:29:14.230 --> 00:29:21.218 - needed or they need. But they're definitely given that very low cap of 0.2%. Anything that would be 00:29:21.218 --> 00:29:27.646 - allocated to the schools would essentially come at the expense of the library, for example. 00:29:29.474 --> 00:29:41.598 - Awesome discussion. Is there other amendments or other considerations that we should take into account? 00:29:41.598 --> 00:29:51.390 - I think it's time maybe we hear from our non statutory members in the public. Yeah. 00:29:52.002 --> 00:30:00.246 - All right, so here are the ground rules as we heard last time or for any other county meeting, essentially. 00:30:00.246 --> 00:30:02.078 - You have three minutes. 00:30:02.370 --> 00:30:08.306 - to say your piece. If you would like, we can keep that statement up on the screen for you to reference, 00:30:08.306 --> 00:30:14.241 - or you can reference anything else that's germane to this must group. For those of you here in the NatU 00:30:14.241 --> 00:30:20.063 - Hill Room, please come to the podium. And speaking of the mic, again, you've seen us kind of struggle 00:30:20.063 --> 00:30:25.998 - with the mic today. Get that mic as close to your mouth as possible. And if you're joining us on Teams, 00:30:25.998 --> 00:30:29.822 - simply click the Raise Hand button, and we'll recognize you there. 00:30:29.922 --> 00:30:36.464 - If there are individuals that wish to come and make comment on this paragraph that we're discussing, 00:30:36.464 --> 00:30:37.630 - please do so now. 00:31:00.322 --> 00:31:05.700 - Good afternoon. I'm Hopi Stossberg. I am City of Bloomington District 3 Common Council representative, 00:31:05.700 --> 00:31:11.026 - and I'm also chair of the fiscal committee, and I want to be sure that I'm only speaking on behalf of 00:31:11.026 --> 00:31:16.560 - myself today. And I appreciate the chance, and I'm going to try really hard to get it into three minutes. 00:31:16.560 --> 00:31:22.304 - I appreciate the conversation. A couple notes that I wanted to make about the statement and your conversation 00:31:22.304 --> 00:31:22.878 - around it. 00:31:22.978 --> 00:31:29.882 - It's in the order that it's on my screen. So I'm hoping that it makes kind of sense with regard to the 00:31:29.882 --> 00:31:36.586 - language Around the group rate cap of point five percent I feel like it it sounds very confusing to 00:31:36.586 --> 00:31:43.490 - say that the issue appears to originate from the group rate cap of point oh five percent not the total 00:31:43.490 --> 00:31:49.054 - cap and then you go on to say townships would need point three one percent because 00:31:49.314 --> 00:31:54.699 - That then exceeds the total cap, and it doesn't have anything to do with the group rate tack. And so 00:31:54.699 --> 00:32:00.245 - I'm honestly confused about that. And that 0.31%, I put a note. It's like, I want to know where exactly 00:32:00.245 --> 00:32:05.897 - that you're getting that, because that's not how I was reading the financial stuff when I've been reading 00:32:05.897 --> 00:32:11.549 - the financial stuff the last few months. Secondly, I wanted to talk about that made whole language again. 00:32:11.549 --> 00:32:16.934 - And I'm wondering whether there could be some alternative language in there, such as avoid a funding 00:32:16.934 --> 00:32:19.280 - gap, maintain existing services, or recover 00:32:19.280 --> 00:32:26.032 - current lit in terms of that second part. And there's actually two places in the statement where you 00:32:26.032 --> 00:32:32.718 - talk about things being made whole, and only one of them is highlighted. And I do think that that's 00:32:32.718 --> 00:32:39.804 - kind of maybe a confusing term for the public. Might not be confusing for anybody who's deep in financial 00:32:39.804 --> 00:32:44.350 - stuff or local financial stuff, but it is, I think, for the public. 00:32:44.834 --> 00:32:51.446 - I just want to address the school corporation thing a little bit. I also agree with the concept of including 00:32:51.446 --> 00:32:57.512 - school corporations and maybe making it clear to include them or potentially opt optionally include 00:32:57.512 --> 00:33:03.699 - them as a non municipal civil taxing unit. Because right now, if they're not included as that type of 00:33:03.699 --> 00:33:10.069 - unit, maybe they should be and that would leave it up to the rest of us. But I also just would be remiss 00:33:10.069 --> 00:33:14.800 - if I didn't say that one of my big concerns about this personally in terms of 00:33:14.800 --> 00:33:20.068 - having less property tax revenue and more lit revenue is that it is a very regressive tax. And we're 00:33:20.068 --> 00:33:25.544 - just shifting a burden. And no matter which way we cut it, we are still shifting that burden from people 00:33:25.544 --> 00:33:30.759 - who own property who probably, generally speaking, have more wealth to people who are still working 00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:36.183 - who, generally speaking, probably overall have less wealth. And I think that that's highly problematic. 00:33:36.183 --> 00:33:41.607 - And I'm not sure if that can go into the statement at all. But that is certainly something that I would 00:33:41.607 --> 00:33:43.902 - be supportive of putting in that statement. 00:33:45.410 --> 00:33:54.407 - How much time do I have left? Oh, gosh. I think that you should spell out AGI in that red mark. You 00:33:54.407 --> 00:34:03.674 - need to spell it out so that members of the public know what they're talking about. And the last it's, 00:34:03.674 --> 00:34:12.850 - as it's understood, changes are to come, needs an apostrophe. Thanks. Jump on to team, so we're going 00:34:12.850 --> 00:34:14.110 - to alternate. 00:34:14.402 --> 00:34:28.324 - James Perry, if you could unmute three minutes, the floor is yours. James, I see you put some things 00:34:28.324 --> 00:34:41.694 - in the chat. There we go. Oh, there you go. I think I finally found I'm not used to using Teams. 00:34:41.858 --> 00:34:49.556 - Two points. One is I agree that the AGI should be spelled out so that citizens know what it means. I 00:34:49.556 --> 00:34:57.635 - hate acronyms, and AGI is not a clarifying acronym for most people. The other issue relates to the making 00:34:57.635 --> 00:35:05.714 - whole sentence, and I put into the comments whether the sentence could be simply deleted in its entirety. 00:35:05.714 --> 00:35:09.982 - I don't have the document in front of me at the moment. 00:35:10.850 --> 00:35:19.718 - But I don't see that sentence as being absolutely essential. And so we could sort of remove the controversy 00:35:19.718 --> 00:35:28.094 - about what making whole means. This would, I think, put Noel Conyer at greater ease with the language 00:35:28.094 --> 00:35:37.045 - in the document. But I could see that we could delete that short sentence and it would remove no significant 00:35:37.045 --> 00:35:39.262 - content from the document. 00:35:41.858 --> 00:35:50.054 - Thank you very much for your helpful comments. We appreciate those. All right, here in and at you, Hillroom, 00:35:50.054 --> 00:35:57.648 - we'll come next. Please, yeah. State your name for the record, and you've got three minutes. My name 00:35:57.648 --> 00:36:05.167 - is James McClary. I am chairman of the Board of the Blue House Corporation. Ben? Can you start over 00:36:05.167 --> 00:36:10.430 - your mic and then kick in? Oh, I'm sorry. Is it on? OK. Try it again. 00:36:11.106 --> 00:36:19.036 - My name is James McClary. I'm chairman of the board of the Bloomington Public Transportation Corporation. 00:36:19.036 --> 00:36:26.890 - I've been on the board 14 years. I've been chairman for five, and we've been blessed the last five years 00:36:26.890 --> 00:36:34.820 - by the city of Bloomington giving us $3.8 million in lit money. This is money that we've used for capital 00:36:34.820 --> 00:36:37.214 - and for operating. We use about 00:36:38.018 --> 00:36:46.326 - ballpark $100,000 in operating money and about $2.8 million in capital. We've been upgrading our fleet. 00:36:46.326 --> 00:36:54.635 - Our fleet is probably one of the newest fleets in the state right now, thanks to that lit money we were 00:36:54.635 --> 00:37:03.582 - able to use. I will not use the term make whole. I will avoid that. We want to retain the service that we have. 00:37:03.746 --> 00:37:12.425 - We are looking at a serious financial situation with the loss of that money. So we would request that 00:37:12.425 --> 00:37:20.935 - you give us, if you can, the maximum that we have to keep us. We're starting to expand. We now have 00:37:20.935 --> 00:37:23.998 - authority to operate in the county. 00:37:24.130 --> 00:37:39.825 - have been given the char of talking with the city to see what we can work out with them. Because we 00:37:39.825 --> 00:37:50.654 - think they're part of what we will be. You know, we will be a county 00:37:50.786 --> 00:37:59.537 - and no longer just a simple city of Bloomington service. Our budget for this 2026 was about 19 and a 00:37:59.537 --> 00:38:08.201 - half million, of which 14 million was operating and five million, give or take, was for capital. We 00:38:08.201 --> 00:38:16.952 - are planning on building a new facility. We have the land. We've purchased the land. We own the land 00:38:16.952 --> 00:38:18.078 - now. We have 00:38:18.178 --> 00:38:25.633 - We have a single grant from the Federal Transit Administration for $20 million right now, and we've 00:38:25.633 --> 00:38:33.312 - just applied for another $30 million, which will allow us to build the whole facility. If we don't get 00:38:33.312 --> 00:38:40.842 - it, we'll have to go back to Plan B. But we believe that we've got a very good shot at getting that. 00:38:40.842 --> 00:38:41.662 - Pardon me? 00:38:41.794 --> 00:38:49.433 - Okay, I will be quick. I'm not sure I understand all of this. I'm just a citizen, but we have staff 00:38:49.433 --> 00:38:57.378 - who is right on top of it. We have a new general manager, Nick Standifer, who came on board three weeks 00:38:57.378 --> 00:39:04.941 - ago, and we said, welcome, Nick, here's your challenge. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. 00:39:04.941 --> 00:39:06.622 - Thank you, Hill Room. 00:39:13.634 --> 00:39:20.423 - the newest member of the board of Bloomington Transit. I just wanted to clarify a little bit. We are 00:39:20.423 --> 00:39:27.280 - using of that 3.8 million in ED lit money, 1.1 million about of that is going to operations. The rest 00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:34.002 - is going to capital. Including in that operations is Sunday service. Included in that operations is 00:39:34.002 --> 00:39:40.858 - some money going to microtransit. Included in that operations is two staff members' salaries. So it's 00:39:40.858 --> 00:39:42.942 - a substantial amount of money. 00:39:43.554 --> 00:39:49.927 - when we have a new budget and we have a new financial situation, we might be able to move some of that 00:39:49.927 --> 00:39:56.176 - around, but some of that is in kind of play. So I just wanted to clarify that and make sure that you 00:39:56.176 --> 00:40:02.611 - were aware that there's a substantial portion of that money that's going to operations, and it may mean 00:40:02.611 --> 00:40:09.045 - cuts in the future if we don't find a way to fill that hole. So thank you. Thank you very much for your 00:40:09.045 --> 00:40:11.582 - comments. Here in the Not You Hill Room, 00:40:29.314 --> 00:40:34.753 - on the CFO of Monroe County Community School Corporation here on behalf of Dr. Winston and the school 00:40:34.753 --> 00:40:40.139 - corporation as well. I have a written statement that's been prepared by Dr. Winston that I just want 00:40:40.139 --> 00:40:46.005 - to read to you. On behalf of the Monroe County Community School Corporation, I want to express our collective 00:40:46.005 --> 00:40:51.337 - appreciation to the work on the task force from this group. As Monroe County and its municipalities 00:40:51.337 --> 00:40:54.430 - navigate changes to Indiana's local income tax structure, 00:40:55.106 --> 00:41:01.253 - and that are slated to take effect in 2029, we want you to know that MCCSC fully recognizes the intersection 00:41:01.253 --> 00:41:07.005 - of local government and strong public schools. We realize the importance of joint discussions and the 00:41:07.005 --> 00:41:12.701 - responsibility involved in collaboratively planning for our community's long-term fiscal health. The 00:41:12.701 --> 00:41:18.340 - changes to Indiana's local income tax coming in 2029 will affect every unit of government in Monroe 00:41:18.340 --> 00:41:23.134 - County, and they will affect our schools as well. MCCSC doesn't have a seat on must, 00:41:23.234 --> 00:41:28.706 - But what the task force recommends matters to our students, our staff, and the families we serve. Good 00:41:28.706 --> 00:41:34.391 - schools and good local governments depend on each other. And I'd like us to be a part of that conversation 00:41:34.391 --> 00:41:39.704 - as your work moves forward. Strong schools, effective local government, and thriving employers, and 00:41:39.704 --> 00:41:45.123 - sustainable economic growth are mutually reinforcing elements of a healthy and prosperous region. Our 00:41:45.123 --> 00:41:50.595 - team would be glad to brief the task force on how school funding works and future conversation between 00:41:50.595 --> 00:41:51.870 - myself and Dr. Winston. 00:41:52.642 --> 00:41:57.539 - Our intention is simply to be a constructive partner and to recognize the interconnectedness of our 00:41:57.539 --> 00:42:02.780 - public institutions and the people we serve. We believe that open communication and a shared understanding 00:42:02.780 --> 00:42:07.922 - of our respective challenges and opportunities can strengthen our collective ability to support economic 00:42:07.922 --> 00:42:12.820 - development, workforce readiness, and the long-term well-being of Monroe County. Thank you for your 00:42:12.820 --> 00:42:17.717 - service and leadership. We look forward to maintaining an open dialogue and exploring opportunities 00:42:17.717 --> 00:42:19.774 - to work together in support of our region 00:42:20.290 --> 00:42:26.738 - Dr. Winston and I also attached a one-page summary of some financial pressures that we've been very 00:42:26.738 --> 00:42:33.380 - open and honest about in the public as it relates to the MCCSE for background information. And we also 00:42:33.380 --> 00:42:40.086 - want to continue to learn and listen and understand the choices in front of our county, which will help 00:42:40.086 --> 00:42:46.276 - us to plan responsibly on our end. We thank you for your service, and we look forward to future 00:42:46.276 --> 00:42:49.758 - conversations. Thank you. Members of MUST, thank you. 00:42:50.626 --> 00:42:58.666 - Are there any other members of the public or members of non-statutory taxing units that would like to 00:42:58.666 --> 00:43:06.627 - make public comment? Either on teams, raise your hand, or here in the NatU Hill Room. Seeing none, I 00:43:06.627 --> 00:43:13.406 - think it's time that we put that statement back up on the screen, if we could please. 00:43:26.754 --> 00:43:37.157 - Thank you. Waiting for my mic to turn green. Hello? There it is. It was for a moment. It's being picked 00:43:37.157 --> 00:43:47.560 - up on the... Okay, so it is working. Okay, it's not green. First of all, I appreciate the comments that 00:43:47.560 --> 00:43:56.062 - the representatives from the Bloomington Transit made. I think the new lit structure 00:43:56.834 --> 00:44:03.233 - does actually, even without any changes, so I'm not proposing that we include anything in here, but 00:44:03.233 --> 00:44:09.632 - without any changes does include some options to increase funding for transit potentially in a more 00:44:09.632 --> 00:44:16.671 - county and to allow them to kind of build more countywide service. So I think there's some real opportunities 00:44:16.671 --> 00:44:23.518 - there and I appreciate hearing from the board members. I did want to address, or I think we should address 00:44:24.482 --> 00:44:30.954 - Council Member Stossberg's comments about the township and the language about the group rate cap. 00:44:30.954 --> 00:44:37.625 - I agree, after reading it again, it appears that those two sentences are directly contradictory. And 00:44:37.625 --> 00:44:44.493 - so we're first saying the issue appears to originate from the group rate cap of .05, not the total cap, 00:44:44.493 --> 00:44:51.098 - but then the very next sentence says distributed on population, townships would need .31% to all be 00:44:51.098 --> 00:44:54.334 - made whole. So we're saying not the overall cap, 00:44:55.362 --> 00:45:06.306 - And I'm not sure that's really what we're trying to say, so. So let me help. There's the first. The 00:45:06.306 --> 00:45:17.469 - first cap as it stands today is .05 for tension. Second cap is .05 for libraries. Combined those with 00:45:17.469 --> 00:45:24.254 - the airport and the solid waste cannot exceed 20, so we could 00:45:25.602 --> 00:45:38.338 - originating from the township and library cap of .05. But that will not work either because the .05 00:45:38.338 --> 00:45:51.838 - for townships is not high enough. It would have to be as high as .31. So remember there's cap A and cap B 00:45:52.194 --> 00:46:03.511 - And so we're saying cap A of 0.05 doesn't work. Cap B of 0.20 doesn't work. And oh, by the way, if we 00:46:03.511 --> 00:46:09.502 - even had a cap just on townships, it would take 0.31. 00:46:09.986 --> 00:46:20.934 - okay so we could make it just rather than saying group cap of being the group of townships and the group 00:46:20.934 --> 00:46:31.362 - of libraries we could say originating from the rate cap of 0.05 for townships and libraries and not 00:46:31.362 --> 00:46:36.158 - that and and scratch the total rate cap of 20 00:46:36.322 --> 00:46:53.030 - I think that does not work because we need 0.31 for townships alone. Yeah, I think that's the same point. 00:46:53.030 --> 00:47:06.270 - I think that is. Trying to say. What I just said. Okay we can play we can have this 00:47:08.098 --> 00:47:20.281 - Take out the clause not capital cap of 0.20% and put in a conditional clause at the beginning of distributed, 00:47:20.281 --> 00:47:31.467 - something like in fact or. Or me, I help. Please. So if we start with the issue appears to originate 00:47:31.467 --> 00:47:34.014 - from the strike group. 00:47:39.266 --> 00:47:55.444 - 0.05 for libraries and townships. Okay. Delete not the total cap of 0.20. We could then go ahead and 00:47:55.444 --> 00:48:04.414 - say distribution on population for townships would mean 00:48:08.034 --> 00:48:27.669 - a total rate of 0.31 for townships to be made whole. So striking to all made whole. So Peter, please 00:48:27.669 --> 00:48:30.974 - add or subtract. 00:48:44.802 --> 00:48:56.988 - somewhat less confused and understanding that the language of made whole that highlighted that that 00:48:56.988 --> 00:49:09.296 - can change as well. Okay. All right. So council member Stossberg just wants more data so we can deal 00:49:09.296 --> 00:49:12.830 - with that after the meeting. 00:49:19.874 --> 00:49:41.695 - Members, are you okay with what the screen reads now? Any problems, any questions? We didn't hear what 00:49:41.695 --> 00:49:49.534 - she said. That's not being captured. 00:50:15.842 --> 00:50:31.814 - And in that context to be made whole is appropriate appropriate All right any other comments or questions 00:50:31.814 --> 00:50:42.814 - at this point based on what we heard from public comment from us members 00:50:51.170 --> 00:50:59.407 - Is there any way that we could change that to be made whole to maintaining current services or something 00:50:59.407 --> 00:51:07.959 - to that effect? Or current revenue? Let's make sure that we're not talking about the one that's highlighted. 00:51:07.959 --> 00:51:16.039 - I think we're going to agree to disagree on this. I get the intention of what you're saying. It's just 00:51:16.039 --> 00:51:18.942 - that verbiage. That verbiage is just 00:51:20.002 --> 00:51:30.236 - made whole is I just, I can't get over it. And so I'll leave it at that. That's just my maintaining 00:51:30.236 --> 00:51:40.776 - current services. Um, what? Yes. Maintaining current revenues. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. So that's, that's 00:51:40.776 --> 00:51:47.326 - a compromise and I'm willing to do so maintaining revenues. So, 00:51:47.746 --> 00:51:59.213 - The suggestion is to replace the highlighted text with. Or is it the next sentence down? You're in charge 00:51:59.213 --> 00:52:11.112 - here. I want to make it a group. Obviously decision, right? Yeah, that's just my sticking point. I understand 00:52:11.112 --> 00:52:17.278 - the intent, but when the general public is reading this, 00:52:19.266 --> 00:52:26.510 - coming across that way. Well, maintain current revenues is that or maintain current revenues at the 00:52:26.510 --> 00:52:33.972 - time of imposition. Yes, I would agree with that. Is that does that essentially cover what? You always 00:52:33.972 --> 00:52:40.926 - want to be prospective in the future. Well, that's what we're saying at the time of imposition. 00:52:57.538 --> 00:53:09.293 - We're not sure where you're wanting the word revenues. I'm in position. Right now you've got recover 00:53:09.293 --> 00:53:21.047 - current lit. We would want to replace lit with revenue. And then in the spirit of the changes to AGI 00:53:21.047 --> 00:53:25.470 - I think at some point we should spell 00:53:25.730 --> 00:53:32.820 - The first instance of lit, we should spell out local income tax, and then put it in parentheses. So 00:53:32.820 --> 00:53:39.910 - heretofore lit means local income tax. Thank you. All right. I want to keep this moving, because we 00:53:39.910 --> 00:53:47.213 - could be here all day workshopping this. So are there any other changes from must members? At the same 00:53:47.213 --> 00:53:49.694 - time, this is what we're here for. 00:53:56.962 --> 00:54:05.615 - It's a terrifying question because I think there's conversations about two different made whole comments. 00:54:05.615 --> 00:54:13.778 - So the highlighted made whole, do you want it to be replaced with to maintain for the language that 00:54:13.778 --> 00:54:19.166 - says the townships have the ability to maintain current services? 00:54:25.538 --> 00:54:37.465 - I can't really see it very clearly, but I think that's what I thought we were going to change to maintain 00:54:37.465 --> 00:54:48.830 - current revenues at the time of imposition. Do you want that one to say to maintain current revenue? 00:54:57.218 --> 00:55:06.073 - And so in that particular use, we're not qualifying at all. And I'm trying to address Noel's concern 00:55:06.073 --> 00:55:14.840 - and trying to come up with kind of a compromise language that would work there. So yes, that's what 00:55:14.840 --> 00:55:23.870 - I was referring to. What if we did a parentheses as revenues at time of imposition? Close parentheses. 00:55:25.442 --> 00:55:33.347 - And that's what's being typed on the screen right now. I mean, I don't have a problem with that. 00:55:33.347 --> 00:55:39.134 - But again, I'm kind of trying to compromise with Noel's concerns here. 00:55:55.778 --> 00:56:18.974 - All right. Any other changes to this document? Going once. Going twice. All right. In that case, 00:56:19.298 --> 00:56:29.435 - By statute this body and bodies all over the other counties are given the opportunity to adopt a statement 00:56:29.435 --> 00:56:39.288 - like this and and so I think now is the time that I would entertain a motion to In regards to keep that 00:56:39.288 --> 00:56:41.278 - paragraph up, please 00:56:55.874 --> 00:57:05.962 - We have a motion and a second. Is there any further conversation? Only that this part of the overall 00:57:05.962 --> 00:57:16.349 - document that shows, you know, the meetings took place, the time, and so I wonder. Whole. And everybody 00:57:16.349 --> 00:57:25.438 - understand that's what we sent it. What we gave out as the recommended document by the AIC 00:57:25.538 --> 00:57:34.408 - to go to DLGF shows when and who voted yes and no in that, so. Okay, yes, so my motion includes the. 00:57:34.408 --> 00:57:43.366 - Then I also, if you remember in the first meetings, made the suggestion that that packet should also, 00:57:43.366 --> 00:57:51.006 - if you see fit, include any written statements that were handed in during the process. 00:57:57.378 --> 00:58:06.056 - So the motion as it stands is that we will adopt, a yes vote is to adopt what's on the screen and in 00:58:06.056 --> 00:58:14.648 - addendum the documents that were submitted to us as well as any of the documents that we use in the 00:58:14.648 --> 00:58:23.240 - process of making this decision. And in particular a list of fields that the Association of Indiana 00:58:23.240 --> 00:58:24.958 - Counties circulated 00:58:25.058 --> 00:58:35.401 - that we will then produce for the state. All right? Just go ahead. So the section that I'm highlighting 00:58:35.401 --> 00:58:45.345 - right now, distribution on population, should it be distributed on population? Townships would need 00:58:45.345 --> 00:58:51.710 - a total rate of 0.31 for townships to be made whole as defined. 00:59:09.282 --> 00:59:36.254 - All right, congratulations. We have now asked the state for more information. 00:59:48.450 --> 00:59:54.934 - that set the rates based off of what the legislation does. I am a little disappointed that we didn't 00:59:54.934 --> 01:00:01.354 - have enough information collectively as a whole to put the rates in there. But I want to remind the 01:00:01.354 --> 01:00:07.774 - public that this task force was just tasked with just that, giving the legislators information, and 01:00:07.774 --> 01:00:14.193 - I wish we would have been able to give them more. Great point. All right. Now we're at the point in 01:00:14.193 --> 01:00:18.302 - the agenda to talk about next steps. Do you have a crystal ball 01:00:18.850 --> 01:00:27.279 - that you would like to look into and tell us, what are the next steps that you're telling other counties 01:00:27.279 --> 01:00:35.709 - that you're going around and talking about this with? Number one, this needs to be submitted by November 01:00:35.709 --> 01:00:43.576 - 2nd. Okay, number two, stay tuned for SB2. That's going to come to a theater near you. All right, 01:00:43.576 --> 01:00:45.182 - and I will. If you. 01:00:45.282 --> 01:00:52.023 - out there watching is that by statute, we now have to list all the members and their terms on the agenda 01:00:52.023 --> 01:00:58.571 - that you have in front of you. And you'll note that the terms go out to the year 2028. So we did that 01:00:58.571 --> 01:01:05.055 - thinking this group might come back and discuss some of the things that you were just talking about. 01:01:05.055 --> 01:01:11.667 - That when we get more information, maybe we'll have a media conversation about rates. Maybe we'll have 01:01:11.667 --> 01:01:15.262 - a media conversation about other things. So stay tuned. 01:01:15.362 --> 01:01:21.778 - We'll see what the legislature does in the spring. And back. Is there any final comments from members 01:01:21.778 --> 01:01:28.256 - up here on the dais? Thank you very much. All right. This meeting of the municipal unit strategic task 01:01:28.256 --> 01:01:30.206 - force is adjourned. Thank you.