- We're I went ahead and turned the mic on and the camera on so we can go ahead and call the Plaintiff's
- Commission meeting to order. Okay. I will go ahead and call the January 26th administrative meeting
- of Plaintiff's Commission to order. So Jackie if you can call the meeting please. Sure. David Bush.
- Here. Margaret Clements. Here. Tom Enright-Rando. Here. Scott Farris. Here. Rudy Fields. Here.
- David Henry. Here.
- Jeff Morris. Here. Julie Thomas. Here. Bill Vande. VandeVinciz. Okay. So we have eight people and a
- quorum. Thank you Jackie. So number one on the administrative business tonight is the housing inventory
- discussion. And I'll quickly just introduce this topic. So we've talked a little bit during the County
- Development Ordinance
- drafting process and then it's been brought up again as part of the some of the discussions as we look
- to County Development Ordinance and something that the GIS Division has come up with. John Beaton has
- come up with this sort of less a pipeline of housing coming down but more of an inventory of existing
- housing and I thought it was really interesting to this discussion.
- I have in here a few topics underneath item number one, but I asked John if he would be able to kind
- of walk us through what he's created and how it might be helpful. So I'll let John take it away. Okay.
- Yeah, sure. And if there's a mouse as well. Yeah, everybody. Jeff, daycare. Jeff and I have the same
- daycare. As Jackie mentioned, I'm the GIS coordinator. This is a project that we've been working on
- for a bit of time.
- And what this is doing is pulling data, our parcel data, and our parcel data is the geometry of parcels
- in Monroe County, but then there's also qualitative data within those parcels.
- And this qualitative data comes from our assessor's office and our auditor's office primarily. This
- is like who's the owner of the property, where the property's located, as well as how the property's
- classified. And that property's classified by our assessor's office using what's called a property class
- code. So we have different types of property class codes. My house, for instance, I live in a single-family
- house in Sherwood Oaks. It's coded as 510. And that means I live in a single-family residence in a property
- that's under one acre in size.
- We have about 65,000 parcels in Monroe County. Don't quote me on that, we have around that many. We're
- consistently kind of trying to keep them up, keep them and make sure that everything's good. It's a
- lot of data though. So what we've done is we've broken these parcels out in terms of how they're utilized
- at different types of incorporated areas. We've also done this for Bloomington, looking at different
- neighborhoods for Bloomington. One of the reasons for this is just trying to get a better idea of kind of
- what our neighborhoods are like and what our communities are like. So what I'll do is just click on,
- I'll click on Bloomington to start with just because it's a little bit easier to see. Now hopefully
- everything's gonna work here. The parcel should show up in a second. What we're gonna do is get a breakdown
- here on the far left that's gonna be showing the property class type. So single family dwellings, condos,
- commercial housing, commercial tax exempt government property, and every computer
- they look a little bit weird. And so we have an average acreage here too. You're not seeing it, but
- I can expand this to see best and see what these tables look like. And you're going to get the total
- number of property classes, so single-family dwellings. And this includes property class codes 510,
- 511, 512, 513, and 514. And what that means is those are all single-family residences, but some of them
- might be larger acreages. But what I wanted to do is try to combine them just because it makes it a
- little bit easier for visualization purposes.
- Condos, commercial housing, those are houses that the assessor has been notified that these are rentals,
- essentially, apartments, et cetera. One of the reasons why we included the address points for this was
- to show a distinction between the 483 parcels that are apartments and the 16,514 address points within
- those, right, because it's different numbers. So that's just kind of an overview of the table. So now
- if we click on these data,
- what it's gonna do is isolate the parcels that are single family dwellings, isolate the parcels that
- are commercial, isolate the parcels that are vacant residential. On the top right here, we have a composition
- of housing for incorporated areas. And so for Bloomington, for instance, 53% of the housing within those
- are single family dwelling, 20% are condos, 3.45% are residential vacant. And again, it's just the way
- these screens kind of
- are projecting 15.5 4 percent are commercial housing. So those are rental houses. Can I interrupt with
- a question. I'm sorry. If someone rents out their house as an Airbnb would that be considered a residential.
- Single family dwelling or would it be considered commercial if it's like
- a certain percent of the time or do you just automatically say residential? This is one of the reasons
- why this project started. I'm going to pick on myself because I live in Sherwood Oaks and I know my
- neighborhood very well. My house, I'm a single family house. The house across the street from mine was
- purchased by a realtor, turned into a Airbnb. Airbnb failed, turned into a rental. Rental stopped, now
- it's back to an Airbnb again. Airbnbs are not tracked across the board.
- whatsoever and that's because it's taxed I believe it's monitored at a state level and sort of a local
- level. That one is noticed or identified as commercial housing. However the property directly south
- of my house which has been a rental for five years is single-family residential. And I believe this
- is a voluntary process that the owners have to notify the inspector about. However that same data
- we've been able to acquire some data from the city. And this is from the city's open data portal for
- rentals within the city. And so we were able to take that information to get an idea of what's a rental
- property or where has a rental permit been issued in the city and do these correlate with being a commercial
- housing or not. And sometimes those two data sets don't really articulate very well. So in other words,
- it's really up to how it's feed in at the assessor's office to determine
- Whether it's well maybe they've run it nine months of the year but the other three months they live
- in it. You know how do they. Yeah. How it's keyed in. And of course they have to pay in keeper's tax
- if they're redeeming. Okay. Correct. It's categorized over there as producing revenue. Yeah. And the
- data is all over the place it's not consistent across the board and there's a lot of gaps. So John's
- doing an amazing job with creating kind of these incremental steps to show kind of the housing stock
- but there's a lot of
- collaboration that needs to urge to get a you know very high level confident data. And we've noticed
- lots of different areas where things aren't being classified correctly. But that's not our or that's
- not John's responsibility but we have had these conversations with the auditor and assessor.
- Yeah, since we have a little stopping point. Could you define residential vacant for me? Yeah, so that's
- a code from the assessor's office. And what that means is that property has been zoned, I believe, as
- residential, but it's not occupied currently. And I believe that's what that means. Now, could that
- also mean that the lot has no structure on it, but it's zoned residential? I believe so. OK.
- And I think that's just all about the assessing aspect of it. If it's a vacant property it can be assessed
- lower than if there's a nice livable structure. Okay. And then one other thing is we're not integrating
- zoning zoning data. So like it'd be interesting to start incorporating that to see like okay in this
- zone what's vacant. So like all I'm getting at is the inconsistency between some collaboration that
- produces data that
- isn't reflective but this is this is pretty close. I'm just saying like some of that might say residential
- vacant but honestly. It could be zoned something differently. It could be zoned something differently
- than a residential use and it's just that disconnect between where we're getting the information and
- what else. Sure but it doesn't. You can't. Relates to it. You can't say that that's a vacant apartment
- or something. I would assume residential vacant would mean there's vacant structures. Okay that's what
- I thought. Yeah. Yeah.
- I'm a data guy. So because we're hearing about inconsistencies and disconnects, what's your confidence
- level on how accurate this information is? I would say my confidence level with the codes from the assessor's
- office is high beyond the property class codes, more so than some other data. Is that 75% or 80%?
- I mean, I'm not going to... I mean, off the cuff, I would say I'm 85% to 90% confident.
- I think they're going out and monitoring this annually. That's where a lot of revenue comes in. So I
- think their data is good. I think the parcel data in terms of the geometry of it, some of that is a
- little bit weird sometimes, but again, we're consistently kind of refining this in our auditor's office.
- So this is, and I can take any time you guys have a question, just like blur it out. I'm confident in
- these things. So this is Monroe County data now with all of our parcels. And again, it's broken down
- the same way. So we have single family dwellings in Monroe County,
- Again so this is just the corporate boundaries of Monroe County now including Helensville Bloomington
- or Steinsville. To do this what I did was a inner buffer essentially so we're not getting things that
- are directly on the boundary of Monroe County and Helensville. So an inner buffer of like 10 feet. So
- it's just we're not we're not we're not double-counting parcels essentially. So these are single-family
- dwellings. These are residential vacant properties so there's 3,536
- Residential vacant properties, again, average acreage or total acreage average acreage may not address
- points. Agricultural vacant. Agricultural condos. Tax exempt government property, so this is stuff like
- Division of National Forest and Morgan Monroe State Park. Commercial housing. Two-family dwellings,
- so those are duplexes. Commercial properties, which would be things like Cook, you know, any type of
- Facility like that other taxes and properties and these can be. You know, I'm not really sure what other
- taxes and properties are. We have a lot of churches. Well, churches are tax exempt religious properties.
- So that's a whole different. Oh, that's a different. Yeah. And so I think this could be like, like parks.
- It's like more land trust things like things of that nature.
- The tax-exempt religious properties we have a lot in the city, more so than the county. Commercial vacant,
- industrial, and these can be things like quarries and stuff like that. Industrial vacants, which I'm
- guessing are quarries that aren't occupied anymore. On the industrial, or actually the residential vacancy.
- And I guess my main point here is this is what the assessor's classifying, and that's what the use is.
- The zoning may have changed, so that's where we really need planning to get involved to see kind of
- or is that all residential zone in these residential vacants are the same. So I hope that clarifies
- some of what needs to be kind of some of the next steps so we can relate it to more planning purposes.
- Okay. Thanks John. Yeah. So essentially this is what we have going on for this. And again this is it's
- a broad kind of look at parcels within these different corporate areas. When you break it down into
- the city within neighborhoods it gets a little bit more
- I don't want to say interesting it's more interesting for me because I live in the city and it's where
- I kind of spend most of my time. But it's just a it's a way to kind of look at how our community and
- our county is composed in terms of our usage of parcels. And again this is just housing. This is just
- looking at the types of residential facilities.
- So we have 71.36% are single family dwellings, single's housing, 15% vacant residential condos, commercial
- housing, two family dwellings, and the other would be things like triplexes. Commercial housing includes
- hotels and motels, cool. Yes. Okay.
- that's a motel and a hotel I think would just be a commercial. Just commercial. Yeah. Because I don't
- think that's considered housing. Got it. Yeah. Thank you. So these commercial housing structures don't
- are not qualified by the number of units. These are well I mean we could look at commercial housing
- with address points and that's where we're going to get that. So what you could have is like a I'm trying
- to think here.
- Like an apartment complex could be one. Say there's an apartment complex in Dill County. That'd be one
- parcel. Yes. But there could be 600 address points within that. Exactly. Yeah. And so that's where we
- have it in the table. So if you want to look at commercial housing here what I'll do is expand this.
- And part of this was I was spending a lot of time working with MCCSC as part of a redistricting project
- they're doing. We're looking at balancing socioeconomic status across schools.
- And apartments to me versus single family dwellings, apartments signify kind of potentially a lower
- socioeconomic status than a single family dwelling if you're a property owner. And if you were just
- talking about parcels, you could have 60 parcels that were single family dwellings in a school zone
- and one apartment, but that apartment could have 300 addresses, right? So it's a way to kind of, I guess,
- better kind of quantify numbers of people or usage. So,
- I'll just expand this so we can look at commercial housing. We have 1121 commercial housing parcels
- in Mineral County, and out of those, there's 1196 address points. So most of these are not, to me, looking
- like apartments are large kind of structures like that. But these questions, as long as maybe someone
- can follow up, we can address to the assessment office. We have a good
- level of understanding, but a lot of this is kind of us actually digging into some more of the data.
- Most people are used to like a parcel view where they click on it and they get that pop-up of that limited
- data. All of this is kind of more behind the scenes and as John continues to kind of try to create that
- data visualization and make it where people can use it, we need to follow up with the assessors to make
- sure we're providing you with accurate feedback.
- just want to make sure that, you know, like we're going to do our best, but there's still a level of
- learning to take place in this. If you had, if you'd run across, for example, and I don't know that
- this exists, but if you had run across, for example, a PUD zoned area and it had both housing and commercial
- structures in it, whether they're vacant or not, if they're not, but if they're not built out, how,
- how would it show up here?
- But yeah, good question. I'm not, I mean, we'd have to look at that. Yeah. Okay. I'm not necessarily
- sure. I haven't been looking at the zoning aspect on it. Okay. But so for example, if a, if a PUD existed
- and it was already plotted and there were, you know, 50 lots, 25 of them had houses, but 25 didn't,
- you would expect to see 25 residential dwellings and 25 vacant residential lots.
- And if we know where one is, we can zoom in and see what it looks like. That's my assumption too. So
- this is a work in progress, clearly. It is, yeah. And this took a lot of, what we had to do for this
- was a number of processes, but it was essentially combining parcels together and then also
- kind of aggregating them based on those property class codes. So. Here's like a PUD.
- That's residential vacant. That's Harrisburg P&E where it's supposed to be two fluxes. So vacant, flathead.
- What's the class? Residential vacant. So it's just class but it's one. But that would be like what's
- allowed there is like 24. It's the type of information. Yeah. Forecasting. Yeah. Why wouldn't that be
- drawn out?
- It's not. It's not. It's not. Well, is it planet? No, that's auditor. The auditor would be drawing out
- the individual parcels. Correct. It says planet, but it's not. Yeah. So again, there's, we're talking
- about multiple elected offices all working in collaboration to create a dashboard that we can have a
- high level of competence on. And this is just kind of one of the first steps to get there.
- be like this is allowed to have quite a few. Hunter properties. Commercial. Can you scroll up and see
- if it says Plattening? Yeah, right down just a little bit. It says view right there. Yeah. That should
- bring you a plat. Yeah. So then you can kind of see how many lots are permitted. OK. I won't know unless
- I look at the BUD document exactly. Exactly. OK.
- So essentially with your assessment, if they don't have address points, which we wouldn't give address
- points until they either flat or develop, then there's no way to know the number within that parcel
- of what would be allowed. OK, yeah, we just know the number of parcels. Unless these are already posted
- the drawn out from the parcel layer, then it would show each individual parcel, so there could be a
- disconnect.
- there of how the management has went from being approved through the planning process. Like Weskin on
- 3rd is say 350. There's no subdivision. There's one parcel with 350. But there's a plant in the city
- that has like we were just looking at like 40 some parcels associated all single-family dwelling and
- there's only two parcels built out.
- So what I'm saying is there might just be a little disconnect of how that gets entered into that. So.
- Yeah it's fine. It's just I think some of this could be addressed in the open gov as we were talking
- about other processes that involved the auditor's office and other areas. We had a sidebar conversation
- about annexation and making sure that
- things are going through all the proper processes and authority chains and Jackie was nice enough to
- incorporate a workflow in our outlook to make sure that we're not missing some of those steps. And this
- could be something that could be built out like that as well. But I leave that to you like I did last
- time. Thank you John. Yes. Yeah.
- I'm sorry, go ahead. I've spoken way too much. You've got a lot of data here. What's your schedule for
- keeping the data fresh? What's your reload time? Sure. Well, this data, we're not the ones producing
- this data. However, we are the ones who aggregate the data together. And that occurs every evening at
- like 2 AM. So I utilize it's called SQL Server, which is basically a database management software. And
- we run a script that basically is
- building these flows essentially every evening so. From the assessment. From the assessment. Yeah. So
- that's awesome. Resources for keeping it fresh in the future. Is it just you or is it. Oh it's we have
- myself and GIS technician but then our technology technological services department technical services
- department PSD is very like.
- responsible as well. But a lot of this was built out also from us working with some different kind of
- third party vendors to assist us in writing some of the scripts. SQL Server is like a language that
- I'm learning but I'm not fluent in it. I'm better at Spanish than I'm at SQL Server. It's just one of
- those things. I've traveled there. So it's you know it's just learning a new language. But yeah.
- Thank you. One of the biggest thing is the collaboration we have with multiple departments to help
- provide the software and that's in collaboration with the Commissioner's Office as well because without
- the software we can't build the back end. Yeah. Yeah. Speak to the collaboration. The collaboration.
- Well the GIS divisions within the Surveyor's Office. Okay that's you. Yeah and at that time we had very
- limited licenses. So we went with the ELA proposal met with the Commissioner's Office. They were.
- willing to move in that direction that those funds are overseen by the TSD director and by the okay
- of the commissioners. They go ahead and provide us the software so we utilize it. So we've been able
- to dig into the data as far as seeing some of the classifications from the assessor's office. We've
- also been able to update the data to have more real-time change of sales.
- I'm not saying that correctly, but transfers, thank you. Because the assessor only does that once a
- year, but the auditor tracks it in real time. And they wanted that for years and years. And it's like,
- well, you have this in the LOW database. We'll pull it up. And that's what the community is looking
- for, too. And then over time, we brought more departments online. Within the county? Within the county.
- Or with the? Well, we work collaboratively with anyone that we can. Sometimes it's hard.
- Sometimes it's easy. Yeah and so. Well that's where I'm going when I see Bloomington Ellisville Monroe
- County Steinsville etc. Well the county maintains all the parcel data. Yeah so but each there's a lot
- of other parts to that and some of it's like the zoning map and we've talked about building out topology
- where that geometry is there so if you're like I want to see all of this residential
- They'll filter everything else out. But right now those lines don't exist. So we have to create that
- topology to make things like that easier. Also, the zoning map is managed by the planning office. The
- corporate boundaries is managed by the planning office. The parcel geometry is managed by the auditor's
- office. They also manage the wow that helps the backfill the data. And the assessor also manages
- gamma data, which is backfill data. That's more the authoritative data. And we need to bring it all
- together, share that geometry, and make sure that, like, if we wanted to click on one of those parcels
- right now, we know what zone it is too, not just what classification that the assessor has. And it's a big
- project, but I think we're making great progress and a lot of this collaboration and build out to occurred
- because we became really reliant on Elevate, which was a parcel data viewer we used up until two years
- ago and it's beacon now.
- But Elevate was going through this process of crashing routinely. And our parcel data internally, we
- didn't have this information on. And rather than our office fielding hundreds of calls a day from angry
- realtors and people that were saying, why can't I see this? We decided to build this out ourselves.
- So we would have that kind of stability and have a resilient infrastructure to kind of move forward.
- That's accurate. So.
- And it's accurate, it's as accurate as the data itself, right? So if there's an inaccuracy in the data
- source, that's going to be reflected here as well. But again, we're consistently cleaning this up and
- making sure things are good. So twofold question. The first part of my question is what is the plan
- then for incorporating zoning into this, especially for
- and our economy outside of also Newington. Is that the next step? We definitely could. And if that's
- the direction that people are seeking, that's something we can definitely put on our table. How would
- it? I guess I'm kind of thinking of it in two ways. In one way, I think, yes, incorporate it into what
- you have. But I'm also thinking maybe not. Maybe it needs to be separate. And then there's sort of that
- Venn diagram point where they intersect with one another.
- I don't know what that answer is. I don't think that the integrating the zoning into this would be that
- challenging. It's basically two layers of data. So you have a zoning layer, which is broken down by
- different types of zoning. Then you have parcel data that you just overlay on top of it. Right. But
- I think what we're missing are those, you know, the PUD that's never been developed or things like that.
- And it seems like
- that would make the data more confusing if it's mixed in with this, because the essential office doesn't
- track that. That was the goal from the beginning, to find out what has been approved and what has not
- come online. And to know, for example, there are 4,500 or more units at Sudbury that have been approved.
- And does that show up on the map, that 4,500?
- I'm guessing now if you have anyone flag it out. What can we do is when we have those PDZones and then
- we can then reference it with the classification as if they're vacant, and then we can start creating
- a list where if we're looking for more content, then that's going to allow us to handle it in more bite-sized
- pieces. Yeah, but for this one, you wouldn't have that information from the assessor until it's actually embedded.
- That's what we might be able to have that topology where the zoning map would be here. We could search
- all PUDs and then immediately underneath it have the parcel where it would still tell us if there was
- a problem. What is permitted, not what's been approved. It's going to take a lot of work. I think what
- I was talking with John before we got here is
- you're going to get a lot of feedback and let's just try to work towards that and work with planning
- and continue to chip away. And I think there's going to be like in this type of technology six one way
- half a dozen the other. But I do think we can achieve the outcome that we're looking for. The other
- question I have is related to this project overall. I think the tables are incredibly helpful incredibly
- helpful. But I wonder if.
- Is there a principle or philosophy behind this that says, let's look at where there are vacant properties
- so we can rezone them, or is it just happened to be on a map, but you have the data, the most important
- data is on that table? You see what I'm saying? Is the idea to try to influence planning and zoning
- decisions based on map, or is it just
- Here's a map so you can see where it is while you're looking at the table. Yeah, for me, it
- was a visualization and one of the reasons why a lot of this started with the city of Lewington with
- neighborhoods and this again is kind of my own kind of ideology and it's because I consistently hear on
- NPR and in the B Square Bulletin and Herald Times that there's a housing shortage, and then there's
- also a housing crisis. And these two are used interchangeably. And I think one of those is very true.
- And I think one of those, I was always kind of like, well, I think we have a lot of houses. And so I
- was always kind of trying to figure that out. And looking at the address points, then looking at the
- number of houses, that was kind of how I started looking at it. I do think there's these maps and this
- data, data should be used to,
- shape policy, right? And some influence policy, right? And it's good data, right? But I think for these,
- it's more visualizations. And for me, I was really interested in like, well, what's the composition
- of Bloomington, right? I'm running these neighborhoods all the time. And when I moved here, I was told,
- you know, move to Bryan Park, move to Elm Heights. It's like, we're all, that's where you need to live.
- It's a core neighborhood is what people call it. And you look at Bryan Park or Elm Heights, it's like 60%
- Rentals. Yeah, you can show that and it's and here it's kind of a little bit difficult. But yeah, we
- go to Bloomington and just zoom into like Thryam Park and look at the landscape of landlords when this
- loads. It is a lot of data, as I said. This is the other one that this works, right? So these are commercial
- housing. And again, this isn't all the commercial housing. These are the
- there are landlords who actually report that to our separate office. And then this also was coupled
- with Senate Enrolled Act 1, which is going to be defunding local governments. And so there's also a
- taxing thing here in terms of doing your part to have a thriving democracy. And that means actually
- being responsible as a landowner. So I think I went way too farther with my answer. No, I think it's
- fascinating. I think what I would
- I would ask is that vacant parcels be differentiated between open land and empty houses. I think that
- would be an important differentiation to make. For the county. I don't know. That would be like it would
- have to be some of the assessing code if there is. There is a there is a it is in the assessor's code
- if there's
- If the property is truly vacant versus a house that doesn't have residents in it. Well, I think yeah,
- I think that's residential vacancy is what that would be. There's no. I think it's zoned as residential,
- but there's no property. We could actually like look at one of these and bring on an area and see what
- it looks like. So if I zoom into this guy here and I just want to address that question real quick too
- is the goal here is to make a transparent dashboard and.
- truly show the housing layout or composition of the county. And unfortunately people are going to take
- their odds and narratives and run with it. But the goal is to make this feel like a tool that you can
- have confidence on and just be able to bring that transparency. That that is our core mission is to
- let the data speak to itself. The only real thing that we have
- in there is the data visualization part. But you know we're wanting feedback for that like what kind
- of graphs what kind of colors things like that. But like the data as far as the way it's going to be
- presented it is just going to be like this is what it is. And as we learn more of like what
- vacant residential means that's a great question. Does it means there's a structure on there or does
- it just mean no one lives there or does it mean a city.
- There was there was at least one yeah I didn't have a base map switcher on this and so I can't see the
- areas but yeah again yeah the data like I said the data in here is as good as the source data that we're
- pulling from itself. And the building department would be the next goal because if they actually got
- permitted to build a structure then we can start filtering it out as far as like vacant with structure
- or vacant open land. Sorry I'll stop there. That vacant lot.
- It was vacant house for 20 plus years until I purchased it, demoed it, but it was always being taxed
- and considered residential until I had to poke the assessor's office, come out and look and make sure
- the structure's not going to pay taxes on it again. I'd be pretty proactive to like get it, so I don't
- know how. I know people that don't look at their tax bills at all.
- Well, I just had a discussion out of the party recently. And they're like, I'm oblivious. I just picked
- it up. Oh my god. Yeah, I have. Well, this is really wonderful work. And it's very detailed as far as
- what currently exists. And so that has value, especially for the purposes of your dashboard and for
- the assessors and the auditor's office. As far as planning is concerned, prospective data
- approvals that have not yet come to fruition, like Sudbury Park, the 371 units at Westgate, all of those
- types of things. They, by definition, won't show up here because the base map is coordinated with the
- other government units. But that's something we're trying to get feedback from so we can build in a workflow.
- if we can start identifying them and kind of, we can continue to layer this data. And that is an achievable
- goal. It might take some time to identify it all, but. Sure. And like the number of units, like in a
- condominium, how many condos, the condominiums, they're 150 or 3,454. Correct. And I can expand this
- too. Yeah. And that buildings containing multiple
- condos or is that 3,454 individual condominiums? These are 3,454 parcels that have a condo that's classified
- as a condo. Most condos would be like a small parcel. But for example, where Charlotte lived over there
- by Yacos Little Zagreb that was that called the forge or the mill? Foundry? Yeah, so those were condos
- in there. Would they show up as one?
- Because it's on one parcel or the number of units inside? One. I see. So this is like a condo that I
- slid. So there's basically every, it's almost a one-to-one for condos and address points. It looks like
- 3,454 condos, 3,513 address points. I see. In the county. And that's city. I see. I see mobile homes
- would be off. I know there were six or nine other same points for those.
- Can you tell me about the over 10 acres in the county. That was something that you. Sure. Yeah. So I'll
- clear this here. And this is one other thing too. So we go to Monroe County and then we go to parcels
- over 10 acres in size and go like. Can be something. Don't know where this loads. So these are all there's
- one thousand three hundred fifty five parcels coded as vacant agricultural that are over 10 acres in size.
- 37 commercial, 358 residential vacant, 603 single-family dwellings. Those would be, yeah. And you know,
- those address points that you have identified. So if no one is living there, does it show up as an address
- point if it's never been occupied? If there's a house on it, there would be an address point. But as
- an apartment, I mean.
- There's an apartment yeah there's still be an address point for it. That's interesting. And the address
- points too for the again it's totally dated together so our address points we have addressing it was
- at the county side right so that's uh planning office here those are address points at the Monroe County's
- incorporated area then the city of Bloomington has their own dressing and Ellitsville
- addresses through Bloomington as well. So we're bringing together address points from the city
- of Bloomington, Alexville, and Monroe County, and aggregating this together. And that was my question
- about a collaboration. Yep. How is that working? So that's a script I run as well. So I pull data from
- the- And they allow you to pull that data? Correct. Yeah. It's public data. So yeah, and I write basically
- a model. So yeah. You want to mention the data harvest just a little bit, how the county is, the body
- research. Sure. And that's like separate from this,
- kind of, but yeah, we as the state of Indiana, the Geographic Information Office has an initiative that
- they do every year, and it's called a data harvest. And what they do is they try to bring in core data
- sets from the county, and so things like road center lines, address points, and parcel data, along with
- things like library boundaries, political boundaries, and things like that, and they aggregate these
- at the state level. So we bring these in every year, and part of that process is us, as the GIS Division
- and the Surveyor's Office,
- we collect data and ship it off to the state but we have to make sure that the schema is accurate at
- the state standards. A lot of this is for it's called Next Gen 911 reporting. So it's for dispatch to
- make sure that if there's a fire the fire chiefs know where to go or the fire trucks know where to go
- and if there's an emergency they know where to go as well. And so that's kind of part of the process
- that we needed to do to get these data kind of coming in. And yeah so the
- I started in this position in 2022 and it's been a learning experience and it's been super fun as well.
- But it's been kind of like when I first started here, it was like, what is going on? Like, how is this
- even happening? We had no idea where Ellensville was getting data or Ellensville had no idea how their
- addressing even occurred. And the city of Wilmington has been doing it for 20 years basically. So it's
- been a really interesting process and we're kind of consistently refining as well. Jackie and I spent
- a couple of weeks in December removing kind of
- duplicate addresses that, you know, we would randomly have a Bloomington address and then Bloomington
- randomly have a Monroe address in their data. And we were having duplicate addresses that we didn't
- want to have. I mean, just setting you up for a good census also. For sure. Yeah. So, yeah. Is this
- still a beta testing or is this? I would say it's after beta, but it's still kind of, we're always tweaking
- stuff. And so we put out data dashboards all the time and we try to
- Provide a public service right that's going to be there's so much data out there we're trying to make
- this available to the public today I just published a big data dashboard for the American Community
- Survey, which is a product of the US census and so it's a five year average of data from 2018 to 2023.
- We publish this and we put it on Reddit. We put it on Facebook and one of the best things about this
- is feedback we get from the community. That's that's put on Reddit through a county organization. We
- did that better for your will because there's a weird policy there. But but anyways, we get feedback
- from the community and sometimes it's like this is great, but a lot of times it's like well, this could
- be cooler if you guys did that and we get that feedback that constructive criticism or not constructive
- criticism. We take it and we go with it. We make our stuff better and so.
- I forgot what your question was. Well, I was two-part question. Sure. You answered the first part. OK.
- Second part was going to be, is this live yet? And if it is? It is live. It's publicly available. It
- has access to it. We don't have it linked to a number of different places, because we wanted to continue
- to gather feedback. But it's all public data anyway, so people have access to it. It's just the way
- it's being displayed and the way you can filter it is the only thing different. We do have a GIS Division
- website that
- It's a lot of it's an award-winning website by the way. And the goal is to publish this on our website
- so it's an easy place to people to access and to go to. I feel like in the agenda will work if you should.
- Yeah. Do you know who's accessing your data? No. I mean do I know how many people are accessing it?
- Kind of. And it's lots. I'm more concerned about who's accessing it. Sure. And using the data. Sure.
- Yeah, this is this is like public data. And so we do have a number of like firewalls put up in terms
- of, you know, malicious actors and stuff like that. And we're consistently trying to kind of build up
- our securities and things like that. There's in terms of like parcel data, there's restricted addresses.
- And so, for instance,
- elected officials, judges, folks working in the Sheriff's Department and things like that can have their
- addresses restricted from the public. And that's a process that occurs in the auditor's office. You
- have to fill out a form for that. And so that's part of our parcel data that's restricted. Yeah, the
- rest of it's public facing and so. And it's a lot of what we're seeing right now is a one way where
- we're not having two way connections to it. So you can't change the data. We're just showcasing the
- data and then
- That's more of a TSD question because a lot of this is on our portal or a ESRI question because a lot
- of it would be on the AGO. But. We can see how many hits within our main website though. And I remember
- I presented at the commissioner's office a couple of years ago and it was something like we deployed
- our website. I think I deployed it like or created it like in August and presented like in December
- and there was something like 30,000 hits. So we get a lot of a lot of hits.
- You know, because I deal with this in my own work and, you know, sure, the base data is public, but
- you're amassing them in a new and unique way. Is there, what are the controls for privacy? And especially
- since that granularity of data is being conglomerated in a new and accessible way,
- And is there an internal review board process for the conglomeration of data in this new and accessible
- click on a point get all this all this varied information from one point. I mean what are what are we
- doing as far as that is concerned. I mean it's like the restricted addresses are the main thing. The
- rest of the state has been
- available in this format on Elevate and Beacon before I've started. If somebody were to restrict their
- address like today, it would be restricted as of tomorrow because we need the daily upload and so it
- would automatically block that. Crime machine would get back if I wanted to. So I just am wondering
- about that aspect of it.
- should we consider whether or not the average citizen can have their data restricted as well, not just
- public officials? I've reviewed this, and I think that's a state-level policy, I believe. There's definitely
- a form at the auditor's office, and we've actually had people who had their address restricted that
- have called me and then had a
- had wanted it to be unrestricted. And so I think former sheriffs or stuff like that, or sheriff's deputies
- that were worried because their address wasn't showing up on Beacon or on our parcel data viewer and
- their house was for sale and it was having some type of impact on their ability to sell their property.
- But yeah, that was one of the issues that we kind of tackled right away was understanding about that
- restricted addresses. And again, this all goes back to our reliance on a vendor's software that wasn't working
- And then we have to deploy something ourselves internally and then starting to understand all the different
- ramifications of that. Yeah. I used to run analysis division in my prior life. So I have some understanding
- about these crazy databases and being buried in data. One thing that we've always tried to do is provide
- trends analysis and assessments of whatever. Like in this area we're seeing. Sure. In this area we're
- seeing this.
- And so a top level, I'm not going to call an executive summary, but some sort of a, this is what we're
- seeing, the current trends, and these are assessments of these particular categories. Something like
- that would be very helpful from a big picture standpoint. Is that something that you generate, you have
- a generator in there for? I do, and we have multiple dashboards. I do have one that's like a value analysis
- dashboard that basically can go into parcel data, looking at
- assessments and sales going back to 2020. So you can see like in 2020 how many sales were there. What
- is the correlation between assessments and and sales at different spatial extents. So as you zoom in
- zoom out you can see well this parcel is sold for one dollar and it's assessed at one dollar right.
- That's that's kind of what you want to see with assessing sales. Maybe I'm not sure if that's what you
- want to see but you can see that with our data. And so we do we do have multiple dashboards.
- One of the things we've been working on lately is trying to bring multiple dashboards. And so this is
- the data dashboard, but we've been trying to bring multiple data dashboards into a single site so people
- don't have to have 15 URLs to follow to do things. So I think it's a great idea to kind of combine multiple
- kinds of... We built a portal at a national level, but we broke them up into categories, very top level,
- and with a few of the little fancy charts,
- Sir, and with all right there. Yeah, but you didn't have to drill down to 19 levels of detail.
- This is right. This is something I'll fall is a cool jacket by. Of course, yeah, let's go on. Are you
- showing the beacon site? I'll see. Everything we're discussing and showing is. Available on the beacon
- site. The goal here is to get a sense of how you guys.
- for how the planning department could utilize this data and we can kind of build it out in a more functional,
- usable way. So there's great conversations and if we're creating a dashboard that's meant for planning
- and Jackie's working with the Planning Commission directs Jackie to do something, John's gonna work
- with him and we can build it out to those goals and objectives. But on the other side of things, all
- of this data is already out there. It's already available.
- And that's just kind of how it has been since I've been with the county for 20 years. And so this is
- like an example of multiple dashboards in one site. And so this is that American Community Survey data
- I was talking about. And so this is looking at total housing units. It's a core plus map. And so the
- darker colors represent more of something. The lighter colors represent less. But the data here is so rich.
- or complex, I should say, as you zoom in on one of these. This is Block Route 1, and this is in Bloomington.
- You get the total housing units. And again, this is based on the census and based on the American Community
- Survey. The vacant housing units, the occupied housing units, owner-occupied, rent-or-occupied, median
- year of the structure that was built, the median number of rooms, average household size, etc. So there's
- tons of data in here.
- And again, we just we just published this today. And so this is just housing, but we have education,
- we have the economy. And then the other cool thing about this is because the data is so robust, you
- can actually just isolate things. And so I'm pointing to my layers here and say I just want to look
- at the vacant housing units. Do you want to talk about census blocks a little bit as how you're able
- to view it and kind of what that block is? So this is the block group. The census
- aggregates data in three levels, three spatial levels, census blocks, which are the smallest, census
- block groups, which are kind of a combination of blocks, and then census tracts, which are a combination
- of block groups. And so this is at the block group level. That's the most granular level of data you
- can get American Community Survey data at.
- But yeah, what this does is it breaks down data based on whatever category you want. And so this is
- looking at vacant housing units. And so, for instance, this census tract here has 373 vacant housing
- units within it. This is block group one, census tract 16. You can search by address here as well. That's
- happening on thing. I think I'm myself because I don't know my address.
- It zooms in. It tells you the census black group you're in. So here's census black group one. It tells
- you the total housing units for that census black group. And again, this is just housing. We also have
- employment. We have population. So this breaks down types of work. And again, this is the television,
- I think, that hasn't been configured to be a computer screen, so it looks a little bit weird.
- the economy as well you can look at. But these are kind of examples of things I think we could do with
- the housing study that we bring in things like zoning and all the other comments you guys have made.
- You want to mention how you've been working with the gentleman at the Polis Center kind of here and
- there to kind of bounce some of this off of as far as what they're doing kind of at a state level. So
- the Polis Center is a it's a
- kind of think tank as part of the IUindie, I forget what it used to be called, IUPUI, and now it's IUindie.
- And they've been working on a bigger project. Are you talking about like the eviction stuff? Well, just
- in general, how they use this data and how that's kind of been some of the impetus of us wanting to
- bring it here at a local level. I might be kind of lost with the whole of this part of it.
- the with the ACS. Sorry. Well, I do want to. Yeah, it's been. It's been about one hour. So I do. I really
- really appreciate coming and presenting. I think it's a lot of information that we wanted to just share
- and have John and John help present that. So that's like an inventory of what we have and we can
- think more on some of our questions how maybe planning and or the PIS division can help with that housing
- inventory. But we didn't want to lose sight of this and John had created such a great inventory of existing
- data that I didn't want to lose that. So. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Yes.
- Thank you guys. Thank you for being late. Yes. Appreciate you. Thank you.
- Okay so moving on to item 1B which is the active development subdivisions in the United Kingdom. Yes
- so this is in the packet something that we had created or it was actually a request by the BEDC that
- we create something like this. So we had put this together it was pretty relevant pretty recent. So
- I just wanted to share this. This is something we're happy to do more frequently.
- It just gives you an idea sort of like what we're discussing on an inventory, but it's not quite like
- that visualization. So we had given this specifically because the person was looking to possibly locate
- here and they wanted to know the types of housing availability, locations, things like that. So we can
- do this kind of work anytime and update it.
- as we can so it's we just kind of comb through that information it needs to get regularly updated because
- things change frequently. And then I'll also note I think this is one C where we last left off was a
- discussion of like we had produced basically a dashboard with John's help of you know connecting it
- with a survey that other jurisdictions could fill out.
- And then also putting those on a map, which we can combine with John's inventory now that that's well
- built out. And just having some sort of visualization of, you know, is that the building improvement
- level? Has it just been receiving a rezone approval or does it actually have, you know, development
- plan approval, things like that? So this is kind of where we left off with our housing inventory discussion,
- but I know I'm
- providing a lot of information tonight, but just wanting to not leave this off the table. And if you
- have ideas or things, if you want to hone in on, you know, some of the discussion about separating out
- vacant land versus vacant housing, or, you know, what, you know, even looking at lots that are 10 acres
- or greater in size to people want to even know like what there is left.
- under the current code to subdivide if they wanted to, as we talk about the sliding scale discussion
- later on, or as we have been talking about the sliding scale discussion. So those are the types of things
- that we would like feedback from, and you don't have to give it to us immediately. But as you think
- about that, I just wanted to bring it back to the table. Does that answer any in the copy? No, this
- has been shared in prior
- emails and discussions but I'm happy to reshare it if people want to. Any members of the Plaintiff's
- Commission have any feedback or would you prefer to bring it up at a later date or email it to staff.
- Yes. I'd like to ruminate. Yeah. It's a lot of affirmation. I don't think the hypervent is sent to us
- so we can explore it ourselves. Yeah.
- Thank you Jay. I guess I had one question and it's just to maintain it. Do you feel like you can build
- out a good workflow like an OpenGov or something because you're talking about like the Planning Commission
- approval phase to the building department's approval phase when they're issuing an occupation. Just
- would be kind of curious of what your thoughts are to build out that workflow.
- And not not today just it seems like something I have experience with with kind of creating
- that collaboration. But that would be the most important part because that would then kind of keep that
- data fresh and hopefully in perpetuity for us. Thank you. Moving on to item number 200 Administrative
- Business the CEO Prioritization List and the possible credits. Yes.
- So at the last Planned Commission meeting it was discussed of a text amendment that will be going to
- the commissioners this year actually this week and next week regarding the size scale amendment. There
- was some discussion in a prior administrative meeting about maybe adding to the CDO prioritization list.
- So the two things that we have captured from that discussion well three I guess.
- One is that there was some concern by some folks of I guess scratching off number one or saying number
- one is fully complete as part of the discussion of the 25-year reservation and whether people wanted
- to see an addendum added to this list such as researching an additional subdivision type which I'll
- note is also already
- on the list a potential new subdivision type allowing cluster development in return for open space.
- And then there was also another discussion of editing this section of partial plat vacations a subdivision
- potentially after that 25 year time period is up for sliding scale whether people wanted to see that
- more clearly allowed to resubdivide under a minor or sliding scale and if we need to change the code
- to allow that.
- So I have this up. I think what we've been doing is as a plan commission voting on changes to this list
- and then the ordinance review committee prioritizes the timing of it. So I'm looking today for a majority
- vote whether people would like to see items one and or two added to the CDO prioritization list or discussion of it.
- I'd also like to talk about Item 1 whether or not we agree or not agree on whether it's substantially
- complete or complete. And I suggest we start there first. Any promotion. The motion is that Item 1 on
- the CDO tabled items for review and prioritization is complete. Second.
- Okay so there's a motion and a second to change item number one under the CDO table items for review
- and prioritization to say complete with the ordinance 2026-01. I'll go ahead and call the roll. Margaret
- Clements yes. John then right-hand up.
- I know. Okay. That bears. Yes. Rudy Fields. Can I not vote. I don't understand it. I just do not understand
- it and I don't feel that it's.
- It'd be disingenuous for me to vote on something I don't understand. So I assume not vote. Okay.
- David Henry. Abstain. Abstain. Can I change my vote. Abstain permit. Okay. Jeff Morris. Yes. Julie Thomas.
- Yes. David Bush. Yes. And then trying to change from no to. Yeah. I feel like it's the same thing.
- So it still passes the one, two, three, four, five. So it's five to zero to three. And it doesn't mean
- that at any point in time the issue can't be raised again. It's just that we're done ruminating over
- it now because we've had one conclusion reached at this point and we've got other items that we've not
- even talked about yet that have to be addressed.
- The one thing the one thing I would add and I think it's important is we need to show progress. Wow.
- We need to show progress. And spending a year on a topic and going back and forth on that whether we
- have agreement or not agreement but we have a majority in my opinion it's time to move on. We need to
- show we've made progress in our discussion. That's just my comment general comment. Thank you Mr. Ferris.
- So moving on to the other two items does anybody wish to make a motion on whether we should consider
- I'm wondering if, if you can explain the second, I understand the first item, but can you explain the
- second? Sure.
- So when we were discussing the sliding scale subdivision procedure and the 25 year reservation it was
- discussed that people had thought previously that after that 25 year you might be able to conduct like
- a minor on that remainder and we had discussed that part of the CDO provisions that we added was to
- kind of close that loophole if you will because people were
- doing a minor subdivision creating four 11 acre lots and then vacating one of those tracks one at a
- time and doing a two lot sliding scale. And so by the end they had eight lots with septic systems. So
- if it is of interest to folks to allow that back in to allow people after they've done a minor to do
- a sliding scale,
- or allow people after they've done a sliding scale and wait 25 years to do a minor or another subsequent
- sliding scale without that infrastructure, that's something that we could add in. Okay, so it's just
- this particular table. It's not just this table. Thank you. I'm obviously in support. I'm kind of more
- curious where my colleagues are. I think this creates some unintentional
- outcomes, one of them being, if you just look at like the other part of this where it talks about the
- lot sizes and I think one, you have to have what, 40 acres minimum to do the three additional lots?
- Yep. I'm going to hold up because it's easier for the visual
- Because I've had this conversation. So 40 acres or greater, you can add the additional lots, right?
- But that immediately eats into what the parent parcel is going to be. And the way the vacation works
- is you can only do a major. So as we're still figuring out the septic sewer thing, they can't do anything
- with their property because a major is five lots minimum. And if they can't get a sewer hookup,
- they have to have 10 acres. So you'd have to have a minimum of 50 acres in that parent parcel after
- 25 years to do anything with without maybe going through experience or such. But that's what I think
- is what my real concern now is with the sliding scale and you know also
- if let's say you have a larger lot and you do something 80 acres or something and you have 50 acres
- in that parent parcel you wait the 25 years are we creating the density where we need the infrastructure
- as far as allowing them to do another sliding scale. I'm not sure. I think I have no set ideas
- or recommendations but I do think it's worth the discussion and I think we can address this in a way that
- potentially will allow more, even if it's a minor or something like that's where my confusion was. I
- thought through the. Vacation option that you could do a minor, but I was incorrect on that and I just
- feel like it's very limited based off of what you have to do for a major that could you go back to the
- other table that that is your only option if you choose it. Also, my question is anyone that has done
- sliding scale now,
- Is this their only option now. So like if someone had a sizable lot went through the sliding scale prior
- to the change prior to the issue with septic and sewer hoping that one day they could maybe do a major
- and it is in a reasonable area that you know maybe there's consensus with the group that hey that should
- be permitted. They can't do that anymore because each lot has to be a minimum of 10 acres. So that's
- kind of where my thoughts are.
- And you know I'll kind of defer to the group here if you want to kind of hash that up. I really don't
- want to go through the same exercise that we did with the sliding scale. But I have to kind of share
- my thoughts on the matter too. So that's what I have. Thank you John. Does anybody else have comments.
- She's sitting down. Jackie can you pull the two questions back up. Do we have a motion in order or not
- to add these to the list.
- I'd just like to add something to the discussion. And I think that I stated this at a planned commission
- meeting and at the ordinance review committee meeting. And I don't know if everybody agrees or if they
- disagree. But we have, you know, first of all, staff, I want to thank you for all the work that you've
- done on the CDO and for putting up with us because we are, you know, nine
- people not always agreeing with each other. And there there's almost some issues not all of them and
- many of them not. But on some issues there is like a fine line between both sides of a point of view.
- But I think that we owe it to staff and to our process that we get through the initial agreed upon CDO
- prioritization list before we add on to it. Because if we never finish the prioritization list, then
- that doesn't speak well of us. If the supplemental CDO prioritization list put the name to something
- else or it could be made more clear that
- that it's, you know, the CDO prioritization list is something that we as a body agreed about. And if
- people willy nilly kind of keep adding to it along the process, it becomes a never ending feedback loop.
- So I would call it issues to explore further, but not anything having to do with the CDO. You know,
- zoning issues, planning issues to discuss further,
- down the road until we get through these 14 completed agreed upon CDO table items for review
- and prioritization. I think that the supplemental CDO prioritization list, the title of it bothers me,
- the process of it bothers me. I mean, if I wanted to right now, I could conceivably just give you five
- more issues that I'd like you to investigate
- and the prioritization list just never ends. So I'd like us to have an ending point on what we originally
- agreed upon and then entertain like a rolling wish list of zoning and planning discussions for the future,
- but not really so tied to the CDO prioritization. Now that's my comment. I don't know how other people
- feel about that, but I'd like to see an end to this.
- I mean, I know it never ends, but I'd like to see an end to what we agreed upon as a body. Can you go
- back to the list and I think I think I counted nine. I may be wrong in my account of which are still
- open. Still open.
- that one substantially. So that would count as one that's still open. So that would be closed there.
- So I think I see nine. I agree with what Margo was saying. I think you've got to take. We need to close
- out the CDO discussion. Of what we heard from the public. This was generated from the general public.
- Correct. I know that. That's right. We need to close this thing out. That makes perfect sense. And Tron
- brings up good points about things that need to be discussed in the future. And I think what you do
- is we call it something different.
- and we track it as something different. Matter of fact, if Margaret wants to add five things to that
- list, let Margaret add five things to that list. Okay, doesn't mean we're going to address them, it's
- just that these are just almost brainstorming items or areas of improvement for the CDO. Yeah, it doesn't
- mean we stop improving CDO. Well, you want to, as you've always been. Critically analyze aspects of
- it, whether they're working or not working. Yes. Especially if you get a lot of variance requests before
- making that. But this is a separate item. Yes.
- All the items relate to the CDO, so it's a little bit of a naming issue. Yeah, I think we can keep anybody's
- brainstorming what they want, ideas as something else, call it something else. And whoever wants to
- put something on it, but then it's up to the planning commission and or the ordinance review committee
- to say, we really need to get on this item 26. Item 26 is the most important.
- I mean, you know, or you all should be adding that to it as well. Yeah. Right. Because, you know, based
- on various questions and, you know, it's that, that, you know, staff is going to inform a lot of these.
- Yes. So future discussions or something. I think that each consideration and the staff deserves a close
- out on this. They've been working on it for years. Yeah. You know, and you've done great. And again, my
- lack of understanding if, you know, we close out the CDO and then all of a sudden somebody's got one
- of these good ideas that we find on this other list of good ideas. Change the CDO? Yes. Okay. So it's
- a dynamic thing. It's not. Yeah. The concerns from the initial passage that were, you know, that came
- up among, it came up in our work sessions and it came up in public and,
- I'm I could probably think about where most of this came from. Yeah. We probably said publicly that
- we were going to take on these comments. Yes. And as a result of their public hearings et cetera. And
- so I think that it's it's it's on us to take and address those things first. Sure. One thing I just
- wanted to add is we make recommendations. So it moves to the commissioner level for adoption. So I just
- wanted to.
- make sure that was clear kind of. Also I agree with everyone. I think we could change the name so like
- it shows that we're making progress but also leave the flexibility to prioritize what is urgent especially
- if we identify things that have unintentional consequences or unintentional impacts or some state legislation
- comes down and we just need to jump on it to really you know
- protect Monroe County from certain unknowns. I think that's fine. I think the ORC could discuss some
- of that prioritization and I also think if it's needs to be brought to the full planning commission
- that. Just call it future topics for ORC discussion. That's what I would call it. Yes that's exactly
- what it is.
- And I think we need to continue to prioritize it. I think we leave it, you know, I'm sure staff see
- something we need to address quickly. They'll read it. But to continually have it all over what's more
- important is not a good use of anyone's time. I think we get this CDO list done for my opinion. OK,
- so we've got several people that I think are saying the same thing here. Would somebody be willing to
- make a motion on this? I would like to move that we
- complete the CDO tabled items for review and prioritization. And as far as new discussions and new topics
- for our consideration that we come up with, that we come up with a different list and a list of issues,
- future issues to discuss, something else, but let's close out to CDO tabled items for review
- and prioritization. That's a motion, second.
- In that motion, for the way that people add to that list, do we want it to come from the Planning Commission
- admin or do we want it from ORC? I think Planning Commission admin or ORC and staff for a majority vote.
- That's good. You want to add that to your motion? Yes, I'd like to add that to my motion. Would you
- like to second that? Yes, I second that.
- Yeah. So it's been most consecutive to the first address. Continue to address the CDO tabled items which
- originated from the public and then come up with a separate list instead of naming it something like
- supplemental CDO prioritization list it's going to be titled something such as future topics for planning
- commission or ORC consideration.
- And those items can be added to that list by a majority vote of the Planning Commission at an administrative
- meeting and also can originate from the ORC or staff but voted on at an administrative meeting. A vote
- yes is about to approve the separation of these two lists first. John and Amanda. Yeah. Scott Barrett.
- Yes. Rudy Fields. Yes.
- David Henry. Yes. Jeff Morris. Yes. Julie Thomas. Yes. David Bush. Yes. Warren Clements. Yes. And then
- since that was the motion do you want to vote on the majority vote on adding these as the first two
- items of that future discussion list. So moved and.
- But not necessarily saying these are the most important but that they will be the first items on this
- new list. No. —Second. —I move and second to add items number one and two. —We should have a party
- number three. Party when we finish the CDO. Number three.
- items that we wanted to go on the list on the screen will be added as the first two items not necessarily
- prioritized in that order but just added to the list and that we agreed that we're not going
- to be continually doing prioritization but that people would continually review and filter out that
- list and add it to you know ask staff to bring it forward as text and as necessary. Our vote yes is
- able to add these two items to the future discussions.
- Pat Fairs. Yes. Bertie Fields. Yes. David Henry. Yes. Jeff Morris. Yes. Julie Thomas. Yes. David Bush.
- Yes. Mark Pemmonds. Yes. Tanya Miranda. Yes. Okay the motion is approved unanimously. Okay moving on
- to item number three this is the Board Appointments for the Plains Commission and other subcommittees.
- a comment and that is that I think in years past we've waited until February based upon who we think
- is going to be the representative from the county commissioners and also from the county council until
- we know who those people are I think we're kind of getting ahead of ourselves. That's just my comment.
- I. — Usually it's the February admin meeting and I don't want us to get a perverse view on this one.
- I agree. Plus we spent a lot of time on the earlier discussion. Except maybe the citizen appointee to
- the Black Committee. He expressed interest. And that one doesn't really I feel like that's a little
- bit of an outlier. We could appoint him now and then figure out the rest on February. I'm just so we
- can let him know unless others have thoughts on that. Did we decide that that's that that's
- Three people from the Plan Commission and only one resident. Is that what we decided. Because I remember
- we talked about this a couple of months ago. And then we lifted it along. We didn't. We did. Yeah. I
- think it was if it were between three and five members. And then we could have up to four PC members.
- I think we added the flexibility. Got it. So we could add a second citizen abundant labor.
- See Jeff. Yeah. I think it is. Okay. All right. I just wanted to refresh my my boggy brain. I would
- I would move that we appoint Travis Bixdon to the Platte committee. I'll second. All right. Would that
- be the only motion. That's the only one. That's the second. Continue the rest until February and the
- meeting. Okay. My second stands. Okay. So the motion is to.
- Only appoint Travis Dixon as the Black Many Citizen Appointee and otherwise continue the rest of this
- appointment schedule until the February admin meeting. As a reminder everyone that's on here already
- continues to serve in their roles until they're appointed others. Let's go up. Yes there's a vote to
- approve the motion. So Scott Berks. Yes. Berty Fields. Yes.
- David. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
- There might be something on the second one that I want to bring up. But this one did go to Platt Committee.
- It's a sliding scale subdivision. There was not a whole lot of discussion by the Platt Committee other
- than they recommended the same I believe.
- And just to show preservation of threes to satisfy the requirements instead of a true street tree waiver.
- So it's a subdivision sidewalk waiver and street tree waiver request. That's why it has to go to the
- planning commission. So this will be decided at the regular meeting of the planning commission. The
- next one is a.
- This was a tabled item so we didn't still have a question. I think that we tabled this in December to
- give some time to see if the commissioners had any input on this since it is a planned commission authored
- request. If there was no consideration. They shouldn't be there looking to get sort
- service. It's it's looking like they would need at least one other if not a few. I think they're not
- contiguous enough but it's possible it could happen and it would be a long stretch. It's annexation
- area you want to be. So so they can't do anything until the court cases are done and then they have
- to wait a certain number of years before they can be honest voluntarily or not.
- wasn't the one that just went through and they said okay it was. Right. Right. We've been in some email
- chains with the city and their legal department and they're still advising people on how to voluntarily
- and excel. So all right. So let me because what I heard from my colleagues on this particular property
- is they said
- I don't know how it could be HD because of the shape of the property and it's only nacre. So we were
- just going to go with whatever a one acre lot would normally be in the county as the appropriate zoning.
- Is what we. Yeah. Yeah. Like a suburban. Yeah. But because they're still going to free them anyway.
- This is just to take it out of something it is not a PED.
- It is not part of the PD. It should not be PD. So this is sort of an intermediate point and that's what
- we have recommended. But I do think that we need to have a discussion about the other planning station
- areas. So should I maybe have
- Jeff Copper will reach out to you because we have this on the regular agenda to go for January as a
- preliminary hearing. Do you want to see if we need time into February. I would put this on February
- for winter if you don't mind. All right. That was the consensus of my colleagues. I was actually pretty.
- Okay. And then we can discuss a little bit more with the city and get the answer. It literally came
- like less than an hour ago about the annexation. Yeah. Yeah. So let's let's see what happens. Okay.
- On that note just wanted to point out for annexation the city did have an approval of a voluntary annexation
- late last year. And then Ellsville they've been. The annexation area 4. Right. Off of Cory Lane. Right.
- And Ellisville has continued to annex just last year at the very end of the year they sent us that they
- had annexed for the year 6 parcels totaling 83 acres. One of which was contiguous to other subdivision
- areas. In 2024 we had about 7 parcels 171 acres annexed. 23-0. 2022-1 property that was 34 acres that was cut.
- I just want to keep going over here. Those are all voluntary annexation. Those are voluntary. Yes. They
- don't have to do a physical plan. Can some how is the plan to be like let's just say that one in annexation
- area 4 that was
- applied to the city they voluntarily annex to the city that can't take place until the annexation laws
- are fully adjudicated plus two years. So can they voluntarily dis-annex and say we're at present 100
- percent to the property owners. It's one owner. There is I have talked to the legal department about
- de-annexation but I'm not
- entirely familiar. I think that's the conversation they need to have. Right. I don't want them in the
- legal waters. No, but also just please keep in mind that those areas in 3, 4, and 5, once if the waiver
- issue is not decided in the favor of the residents, those areas still have a right to judicial review.
- So it could restart the court cases again. Right.
- I don't know if there's movement towards voluntary now on both Ellisville and city side. Well Ellisville
- certainly is looking to what they call a merger as an annexation of the entirety of Richmond Township.
- And folks out there need to understand that that means they will be subject to the property taxes may
- not change much but they will be subject to a local income tax if they become part of the town of Ellisville.
- And on that note the reorganization of Ellisville and
- It's sure but the term is reorganization. Right. It's the township. Richland. It's a sizable area. I
- kind of broke down the data. I don't want to speculate too much but I think about 15,000 within that
- whole area and I think that's parcel base. So it might be more people. There
- They're moving forward. They just got their reorganization committee and now they're spinning
- up subcommittees. And I guess I'm asking my colleagues here is that worth our planning department's
- time to potentially sit on some of the steering committees to make sure some of maybe our ordinances
- that we have in that area if this does take place could potentially be built into their area.
- It's a large area. It's actually that side of the county the west side kind of kind of this little diagonal
- thing is our most car sensitive area in the in the county. And sorry I don't want to volunteer you guys
- but I do think if we're able to even be part of a steering committee it could be beneficial and I'm
- just kind of curious what my other —
- We could yeah you're absolutely right. We could wait a little bit time but they're getting their steering
- committees now. We're not picking steering committees. They picked their steering committees and their
- their committees already picked who they want to pick. And I'm sure that they know that if they need
- to reach out to us they can for assistance or information. But at the same time this is this is premature
- I think this
- too early and I don't think that we should spend our time on this yet. We don't know the proposal. The
- proposal will be out supposedly March or April. The proposal which then has to go to the township board
- and the town council for approval. But that has to all be done by June in order for it to be on the
- ballot in November at the general election. So I think.
- If if your organization the annexation is what it is it's an annexation. It doesn't matter what planning
- and zoning we have done. They will be in charge of it. And you know I doubt that they look to us and
- say oh can you help us. But it would be storm water. Police. They already managed their own fire. Highway.
- All of that would be.
- theirs to manage in a very short time. Which is a little. Planning authority too but they'll call it.
- Visibly I can't even remember the term they use basically. Conceptional ideas. I've just been paying
- attention following the town hall. They got the organization committee. They're looking for folks to
- send interest if they want to be part of the steering committee. I guess my point is we really don't
- have a say in this matter.
- It's going to be up to the voters. And and and because it's an annexation whatever has been done with
- county planning doesn't matter. If the if the original township outside of Allesville chooses to be
- part of Allesville that's their decision. And that means they're saying go ahead and plan us. It's.
- side track, but I wanted to bring that up as part of this discussion. I think it's really important.
- It is very important, but it's also not. Sometimes you just have to let go of the wheel and see what
- they do. Let them drive into the ditch or drive on the autobahn. I wish everybody could, you know, sometimes
- there's people if you don't stay. Well, I will hear the highway rules.
- Although the voters at least in that annexation — — — — — — — — — — — — —
- — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —
- — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —
- Add in a few extra Scrivener's Errors since any time we're taking the Texas Amendment anyways we'd like
- to clean up anything we can. So the main change here though that's in addition to the code is under
- the environmental constraints overlay section and there's not currently an exception allowed for accessory
- structures but there is an exception allowed for the presence or the construction of an initial single
- family residence.
- So we're getting a lot of folks that want to put in a pool or they want to put in a garage, things like
- that. That's totally unbuildable flat area, but they don't meet the other criteria such as continuous
- buildable area, which is between one acre, or that they don't have enough of a lot size. Their lot size
- isn't big enough in the eco area. So it's meant to more so, I guess, regulate
- density in the eco areas, but a lot of the lots have already been legally established, legally created
- over decades. And so this is catching a lot of those people that are in older planet subdivisions or
- just existing historical lots of record that are. So accessory structures could be a pool,
- it could be a deck, it could be a shed. Right. And I appreciate that the exception is. Correct,
- she's good. Yeah.
- I'm I'm cool with this. I think this is good. It makes people's homes more livable to have those options.
- Is what is the 0.25 contiguous buildable area around the red. What if it's on one side of the residence.
- It doesn't matter. It's not it doesn't have to be a perfect circle over the residence.
- Right. It could be point two five on the west side of the building or something. Right. Right.
- So the idea. And this also applies to additions as well. Not just the accessory structure. Right. But
- the idea of the continuous buildable areas that many of these lots are on septic systems. And so we're
- hoping to still you know that to qualify for the exception the accessory structure or the addition must
- be located on flat ground. And if you're taking up some of that flat ground that you have left
- That leaves less area in the place of a failed septic to go elsewhere on the line. So we want to make
- sure that the septic system if it does fail has another location. So when we did the math we added up
- a typical house and the you know 1,750 square feet plus 1,000 square foot addition. We were coming up
- with something like 0.17 acres which would leave enough room for what we would say would be a septic system.
- which was typically, I think, 40 by 70 feet. So that's the idea behind this, is that you don't want
- to, because this is an exception to the one acre, we wanted to have a floor, if you will, that was zero,
- so that it wouldn't be taking up the rest of their buildable area for a pool when they need it for a
- secondary septic site. So then my next question is this. You came up with 1750 square feet for
- and accept your structure. So that's a pretty big sled or barn or whatever it might be or pool. So,
- okay, so how? That's necessary. Yeah. That number is, we use the number of the residential storage structure
- maximum, but that isn't necessarily an ego. It's just a number that we want to be.
- Yeah. That's a pretty big number. A little bit lower. Yeah. Yeah. I just think if you're going to say
- the addition can only be 1,000, then I don't know why you wouldn't say that anything you're adding would
- be 1,000. It just makes more sense. But there might be a comment. So would you recommend changing that?
- I'd recommend checking that. Yeah. Yeah. What do you say, Dave? You have actually, you know,
- accessory structures that you utilize. You know right. Yeah. One of my smaller buildings is 24 by 48
- which is 1152 so that's. For $1200 maybe. What do you think Rudy. Yeah. I don't know. But you're on
- a bigger bigger piece of ground than what we would be talking about here right.
- What's that? You're on a bigger piece of ground than what we would be talking about here. Correct. And
- he's not in the eco zone either. Right. Right. OK. What do you guys think? Because they could apply
- for variance. And let's say they wanted to build the 11 square foot barn. Are you going to show us a
- example? They could come for variance to the BZA still. It doesn't mean they can never do it. It just
- means the BZA can look at it and say, well, yeah, that does work here.
- It seems to me that your point about the size of the addition and the size of the structure being the
- same, you know, you got another thousand square feet or whatever would be the... If you're really looking
- at runoff, like how much runoff are you creating and the volume of that runoff off of roofs and things
- like that. So that's my motion is a thousand.
- And just to bring up at the ordinance review committee we brought up a few examples of variances from
- just last year. So we looked at an example one that only had by calculation 0.24 acres of buildable
- and they needed a side setback variance as well. So anytime you need another variance you're not going
- to qualify for the exception. So it goes to BCA anyways. So there was no exception for this which was
- an addition.
- And then this one was going to enclose kind of a deck area, totally on flat area. They are half an acre,
- but that requires two and a half acres. So in this case, the exception would apply. The addition was
- 150 square feet. This one is a proposed pool. It was located on slopes less than 12%, which was the
- requirement, 555 square feet. It would qualify.
- And then we had one that ended up getting modified. But it wouldn't have been. Their original proposal
- would not have fit because they wanted an accessory structure of 3,456 square feet. They have 1.4 acres
- and they also wanted to expand the whole 900 square feet. That roof is pink so it's Barney's dream house.
- No he wasn't going to qualify. But that was the variances that we just had for that year.
- So I think even if we lowered it, we can do a new estimate of the variance as we're seeing 1,000 square
- feet is better than zero. I think a lot of people are seeing to just do like a, and this, the way it's
- written right now, it doesn't allow for both 1,000 square foot home addition and 1,000 square foot accessory
- structure. It does need some of the flexibility. It needs a footprint for the addition
- and they could go two stories. Right. We'll do two thousand. That's right. But it's. It's about land
- disturbance an acre. So I got a question and if you want to just give me a ballpark. What type of variances
- do we see like the size. Are they typically under a thousand foot. As I was mentioning to the ORC we
- did the examples but I could go back further and do like four years.
- But we've been seeing it's it varies but we've been seeing people that want to do additions we've been
- seeing people that want to do accessory structures because we don't have the exception now we haven't
- necessarily done the analysis based on square foot size. And I guess my reason for the question is that
- these are variances that tend to get approved and that is higher than a thousand then we're not really
- fixing anything here. So but I leave it with the hopes that
- serve on the BZA or or you to kind of move this forward in the right direction. These gentlemen are
- you know I think that um you know they know more about it than I do and I it makes sense to me if it
- makes sense to them and there's a process that can help mitigate a property owner who falls outside
- of it so I feel good about it. I think it was a good catch Julie.
- Thanks Dave. I would like to go ahead and do the analysis. It doesn't take us very long. I can do the
- analysis for the regular meeting to attach it to the text amendments and you can see like all the ones
- we did. I'll just do like two years. That sounds great. I just want to make sure we're changing it to
- kind of for the reason we're discussing it. Sorry after that. That is our last item I think Jackie.
- Is there anything else to go over tonight.
- No that's not the full entirety of the that's none of the. I don't think I need to go over anything
- else. It's very self-explanatory in the upfront. It's nothing major. So. What is the wireless communications
- facilities. Yes. That's that's exempt because of state law. No. This one is let's go over it. It's.
- Sorry. This is.
- I'm so happy to see this. Site plan or plot plan review. So in order for someone to do a wireless
- communication facility they submit to us a site plan showing a lease area. Typically it's a hundred
- feet by a hundred feet. It's gravel. And what we're getting a lot of is now people want to do like an
- additional cabinet or a generator that's just
- Very small within that lease area. We have the we already have the site plan that's going on gravel
- and they don't tend to love us when we tell them they need a whole site plan and everyone in the everything
- to review it for us too. That's true. And that can happen generated when placed on gravel and so. What
- we right now requires. Right. And we would need be requiring that. But there are already state laws
- regarding this that we have to
- you know, approve them on basically either a very fast grade or they just automatically get approved.
- So yeah, I only, this is only for amendments. So news, wireless communication, there's no change. My
- concern is the noise factor with the generator. Okay. What is the noise factor of one of those generators
- and how close does somebody, because you have to have a fall, you have to have a fall of them. So already
- you're so many feet away.
- The generator's only coming on during an emergency. Yeah, during a power outage. I don't think that
- should be a huge concern. I mean, I don't know. I mean, my neighbor would probably turn on their generator.
- Mine comes out automatically. I don't have one. Still, you need one. Generator. Okay, I'm good. See
- what sticks? This one didn't stick. It's okay. Good.
- I think that was the bulk of the checks and amendments but take a look. If you have any other questions
- feel free to reach out. This would go to the regular meeting for preliminary hearings and I'll bring
- back the analysis mainly for the equipment there or the accessory structure. Okay. Any other questions.
- Thank you.
- All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.