- Okay, well, this is our first time having a work session recorded and we'll thank CATS for being here
- tonight to do that. This is a work session to really take a look at potential construction projects
- and also to talk about bonding and the implication,
- implementations about that. Still don't think I got that right. And so I'd like to thank Misha from
- Lancer and Victor and Martin from Skillman and Matt from Stiefel for being here tonight. And first of
- all, we're going to go through a PowerPoint presentation
- that will explain further some of the projects and also look at some budgetary items. And then I put
- together a recommendation and nothing's written in stone on that recommendation. It was really just
- to kind of say, here's my idea of where we can go and where we could take
- different projects out of. We have two general obligation bonds that have funds available to us and
- we also have some past construction bond funds that we could take a look at and see what projects we
- want to take from them and so
- Like to just hope we can get be productive in our conversations and and clearly I'm talking to myself
- and not go to down to too many rabbit holes, but kind of a try to my goal tonight would be to hopefully
- for the for the board.
- provide some guidance and direction in general, and nothing will be voted on tonight, but just give
- us a roadmap of where we go from here. So I'm gonna turn it over to Misha first.
- We'll get started. Okay, well thank you so much, Misha, with Lancer Associates. Thank you so much for
- having us back. So I'll go through a few visuals of what some of the additions and projects might look
- like or where they might be located on the campus map. Please feel free to stop me at any point in time
- and ask questions and it should be a conversational part. So we will start with a high school
- And I do have two different options for this piece, and it's mainly deals with the biomedical labs.
- So what we are looking at is really an addition right over there next to the existing band and choir
- area. So this is in lighter pink. And then we're looking at a larger addition of the band and choir
- that's going to be on the east side of the building. So that's choir, larger area,
- There was also opportunity to put a kind of a second story observation deck and practice rooms and storage
- rooms up there. We also have some offices, storage rooms, also an assembly room there. And then just
- keeping a corridor as a connection between the existing building and the new part.
- In terms of the existing band and choir room, we're looking at potentially adding six more classrooms
- into the building. So that's going to be different in option two. And then building out the new biomedical
- labs over in this area here. So those will be kind of larger and they really can be designed to do anything
- that you would want.
- Oh, I thought there was a question. I was seeing where the end of the building is. Yes, so yeah, the
- existing end of the building is right over in this area. So anything in the darker red is really building
- addition. So I was trying to visualize the biomedical lab where that would cut off and I can kind of see.
- kind of cutting into that parking lots. And then also part of the project is going to be an additional
- parking in the front area, kind of where that grassy area is, and also a much larger added parking on
- the west side of the building where we added some parking and then kind of expanding that parking even
- further. When you say out front, you're adding tension,
- I know we would be losing some up front. Is that what you're? No, I think it's kind of also part is
- that there's probably going to be a underground detention there. So just for cost reasons. So that's
- skill and had it in there or to kind of account for that as so that there wouldn't be hopefully too
- many surprises once construction starts in the drainage on the front. I know we had talked about that.
- Yes. So kind of taking that soil that's there and
- trying to redirect it further down that way. And we'll also kind of look into reconfiguring the existing
- drive there as we will be taking out some of the parking areas in the front of the building. So kind
- of keeping the existing kind of where the flat pole is and kind of all that landscape area, but redirecting
- the traffic a little bit so that you have that drop off area right in front of the front door.
- Then option two is really taking out that addition of biomedical labs and instead renovating the existing
- band and choir rooms to be lab spaces themselves. And in that we are only providing only three additional
- classrooms for the high school to be able to use. And these labs are a little bit smaller just so that
- we can fit within the existing footprints.
- That is the main difference between option one and two. Heavy renovation. Yes, it will be a heavy renovation.
- Well, yeah, we'll clean it out. The mandrel looks a lot bigger already with all those steps out there.
- Well, but they're taking the current band inquirer and making that to biomedical labs and three additional
- classrooms.
- Perfect. I kind of like that idea. There's cost difference too. Oh, definitely, yes. And then we also
- will try to make sure that we are keeping the existing structure in place. There are some load-bearing
- walls, so we will keep those intact. So what are the current band and choir square footages compared
- to what they're going to?
- They are, I believe the band is about 1,400, 1,500. What we're looking at is what band room is about
- 4,000. So we are tripling the size. Well, really for both band and choir. I think it's actually more
- than that. Well, band will be able to fit
- It's not going to have a basketball court, but it will have enough space for a basketball court inside
- of it just because of what they do in terms of practice and kind of the space allocations and mats that
- they use there. So the A team, A is combined. Yes. Yeah, that's correct. That's whole. And whatever
- is going to be having over like over two story type. Yes. The band or the choir, I don't remember. Both of them.
- Oh, really? Yes. Once we go up might as well use that circulation that way. It seems humongous. It's
- much bigger, but it is what a lot of high schools are
- looking towards. It's roughly the size of your band and choir combined. Right. The band location. Yes.
- What's the square footage of the activity center? The new activity center in fact, what's the square
- footage? Oh, I wish you hadn't asked me that. If you could give me a second, I can... That's of course
- what? It's not that big.
- It's smaller than the band and choir edition. It's less than 18,000. Right. It's probably. It is less.
- Yes. And it's also. That's the visuals. A shell. Huh? It's also a shell as compared to as far as possible.
- Correct. Correct. You're talking about the new. The new activity center. Activity center. It's a field
- house. What's the official term? I thought you were going to call it activity center. Field house. I
- think it's field house.
- We vote on that? We did not. Okay. The signage has come in his field house. Anybody could use it though,
- as of right now. Oh yeah. If we decide not to do a band inquiry. Right. And Aaron will tell you that
- this isn't big enough. Right.
- That's what I was like. I was almost on time, but he comes inside. I really, yeah, I don't really care
- what he tells me. I think there are a few barriers of this size around South Central and South Central
- Indiana. Well, like Seymour May School, I guess they're one the bigger than us. But to give you an example,
- you're not out ahead of anybody too much for this.
- if we got a certain amount of money. What's that? Yeah. Do apologize. Actually, the activity center
- is larger. It's 23,000. Yes. 23,000 for the activity center. Is that right there in the back? No. No,
- sorry, the field house. Let's get the ones right. We haven't got the money yet. No.
- Should we move on to athletics? So what we're looking at are renovations to both the baseball and softball
- fields. So there's a little bit less work at the existing
- baseball field, so we will turf the field itself, create a new bullpen for both visitors and the home
- team, as well as there's a little bit of a great work that we heard that we need to do in terms of raising
- parts of the field. Then moving south, we're looking at
- Paving that existing gravel drive so that you got a nicer entrance there. Possibly putting a new restroom
- concessions building right at the entrance so that you can also create ticketing there and kind of into
- that area. Possibly creating a new pole barn that you can use for both storage and just quick, really
- changing rooms for visiting teams.
- And then for the field itself, we were looking to turf it, new backstops, new sound system, new press
- box, as well as creating a new concrete walkway all the way around it to connect both to the restrooms
- and to the existing concessions building.
- Yes. It's just a walkway. Where's the press box? The new press boxes. Oh, I've got home plate. Okay.
- So that little existing building staying out there. Yes. We got to do some of that, right? Revamp it or?
- We definitely can repaint it and things. It's still solubility. Yeah. I think that's also where your
- head end for all the athletic lights is. Notice the fields are red. That's just diagrammatic for now.
- We can talk about colors in a later stage. Wrong day to say that.
- Okay, and then the last kind of major kind of additions or innovation portion that I'll be sharing is
- the junior high school. So in the back of that, the newest addition of the building, we're looking at
- providing the new band and choir rooms there. And as well as kind of enough classroom space and practice
- rooms around, that's kind of the main
- comment that we got from when we met with the teachers that they needed classroom space in between the
- two. We'll also have dedicated choir storage with an overhead door there that they use. Also, we will
- be providing a new set of restrooms on that side of the building just because it seems that the existing
- activity or multipurpose room doesn't have access to them right now.
- One of the things we saw earlier was the storage in the hallway. Is that still part of this? It's kind
- of in a hallway. It's more inside of the band room. We'll still have some of that musical locker rooms
- there. And then we're still preserving the access into the kitchen there.
- outdoor space for the cafeteria is still gonna be preserved, might be closed during construction just
- because of proximity. And then the other item is that there's a potential to renovate existing band
- and choir rooms to get you to five classrooms there as well as some offices and small group instruction
- over in this area there. These classrooms are
- kind of similar to what you currently have, which is, I would say is on the smaller side generally,
- kind of what we typically see in education facilities. But again, we are trying to fit within the confines
- of load bearing walls and making sure that we're not compromising the structure there. And then you
- can see kind of this area here is just kind of rewiring the data for the existing, from the new
- IDF closets in there. The white part is the new gym, right? Yes. This is different. This is different
- than what we talked about. I thought we talked about leaving the band and choir up to top and doing
- something, expanding it out. That was one of the things that was discussed. Yeah, turn this in the classroom
- down here so we're not. I didn't think we ended up that way.
- Well, I thought after listening to the band inquire teachers, they were talking about some alternatives
- they could do if they liked better. Well, we expanded, we listened to them. They wanted a little bit
- bigger space. So we made some adjustments to the original plan in terms of extending that expansion
- area out a little bit further. We changed the,
- Storage for the band equipment. What else? We added a lot of practice rooms, a lot of offices, things
- like that. Just don't believe that you'll get to a good result renovating existing space just because
- of the height needed in that space. And overall, you'll get a better product with Ben and Choir moving
- into the new position.
- square footages, that's exactly what we're giving up at band inquire, giving up 6,800 to get 11,000,
- does that sound right? Yes. Okay. You talked to band inquire about this, so they've seen this already.
- Oh yeah, they saw it, the original, and then we made those adjustments based on what they said. The
- high school's seen this too. Mm-hmm.
- So Victor, Martin, you want to kind of go through the estimates? I'll start when I get in trouble and
- ask Martin to help me. We really have three.
- Four pages of estimates here. We've got, so you have to bear with this, some of them were kind of came
- together here pretty recently. But this first page starts out with the two different options for the
- high school. We just collected everything together so that you could look at option one or option two
- and it included both the renovations, the additions and the parking lots. You see the individual costs
- listed there. If you were to choose to move only partial of each option,
- The big difference between option one and two, of course, is the fact that option one has the actual
- biomedical as a lab addition. So essentially, you're almost $3.6 million because you're adding on and
- still renovating the existing space. So there's a minor difference between renovating it in the general
- classrooms versus renovating the biomedical.
- So that's the two differences between those two options. The next line item there is the baseball softball
- field renovations that Misha described there. Those are all in, all the information that he described,
- the buildings, the facility updates are included in each one of those projects for a total of $5.7 million there.
- And then the additions and renovations to the junior high are sub-totaled there. The big part being
- the performing arts addition, as well as the renovation of the old area into, and I say classrooms,
- but all the spaces that Misha described there in his design are captured in each of these. So primarily
- classrooms, but restrooms, et cetera, are incorporated in each of the designs.
- So we just gave you a grand total of option one and option two, just to give you an order of magnitude
- for all that work. But that's not the only work that we're talking about tonight. So I'll pause there
- in case you have any questions regarding those estimates. So on the baseball, softball fields, the $2
- million discrepancy is because of the outbuildings. Those are two million dollars worth of outbuildings.
- Baseball fields are massive. So the softball field is 3.8.
- Baseball's $1.9 million. That's $2 million. You've got structures. You've got lockers and toilet rooms,
- toilet room concessions. Two-story press box, restroom concession building. Those are the big differences.
- $2 million, so that's a lot of money. Whole barn? Yes, sir. Those buildings are always expensive because
- you've still got all the utilities you've got to get to.
- Yes, sir. But did you explain construction soft costs? We'll make it up on the softball.
- Sure, you're right, right. It does seem like a monster difference. I mean, I was looking at the difference
- in the two. Yes, sir. And remember, these are projected costs. Oh, I know. When we go out and we bid
- all this, that's the actual number. That's such a lot. Yeah, but combined, it's spending $18 billion
- on four lignards. That's a lot. Four page on.
- I'm looking at the project cost totals on the first page of it. It's got performing arts edition 11.5
- million and 6.5 million, but basically for the junior high, that's $18 million. And in spending that,
- we're getting
- total of five classrooms at the junior high and anywhere between three and six at the high school. So
- as far as capacity for educational space, we're not growing much at all.
- when we're spending almost half of what we're talking about for performing arts. I just have a problem
- with that. Okay, tell me where the 18 million is. I don't see where the 18 million is. To the first
- page that has the... Performing Arts Commission. 11.4. That one there is for the high school. Six here.
- And then this down here.
- is for the junior high school. Because there wasn't an 18 million on here. It's got to add up. Yeah,
- you got to add the two million. It doesn't matter if you pick up from one or two. It doesn't matter.
- It's the same amount. I don't know. That's hard for me to take. We're talking about classroom issues
- and space and where we're headed.
- doesn't look like we're doing much to try to do that. I think we also have a ways to go with performing
- arts. I do too, but I don't know that tripling, quadrupling, the size is something that we can afford
- to do. I mean, yeah, we've got a good program, but they've been able to have a really good program in
- the space they got, give them twice the space, and they're going to have
- a lot more space to do what they're doing. You know what I mean? I just, sure. It just seems like putting
- a lot into it. Sure. One thing that I think we've always been very good at is basing our plans and what
- we do with our facilities on needs and we definitely reached out to, and I've
- Sometimes in the past we've been criticized for not having enough conversations with the people who
- use those facilities. And so we've had those conversations, a number of them with both high school and
- junior high performing arts folks. And basically this is what they say that they need. So that's kind
- of where this is coming from. No one has gone in and said,
- Okay, here's what you need, but we're gonna make it even bigger than you want. I get that, but I get
- what they want. But I'm also trying to think of what can we share a word with all of our others. I mean,
- I like the plans because it really captures both. It gives us some additional classroom space and also
- to really take care of performing arts that we really haven't.
- since we remodeled the auditorium, really haven't addressed that too much. But just something, I'm just
- giving some thought back. Yes. Those two labs, those two lab spaces are actually classrooms during the
- day too. Those could be during the day, the biomedical training will be during the day.
- If we're doing this, we get the half a million dollar grant, right? No, we're doing this to provide.
- That's part of it. We have a requirement to do that. To spend two million as far as getting. Yeah, which
- we did by doing this. Right. But those spaces could be used otherwise in the future if that program
- dissipated. It's still a good use of spaces. Yeah, but I mean, I don't really like that approach to
- it because. I know, I'm just taking,
- down the road, 20 years from now, who knows what the pathways will be. It's still a useful space either
- way. I don't know how, I mean, what I'm envisioning, I don't know how useful those would be as classroom
- space is still gonna be as they're set up with the lab though. One of the labs,
- That's where I was encouraged when we visited Boston Scientific and we visited Cook Medical is basically
- they were shells. They were just a large room that looked like a classroom. Now on the second training
- lab, we're going to try to put some mock hospital rooms in there.
- but all the equipment stuff should be movable. Yeah, be a bed, just anything that's attached to the
- wall. Yeah, but you can work around that. Right. And I know this is way out of the road to you, that
- we might be able to pull, for funding, pull kids from the air, Hoosier Hills, to use that lab during
- the day when we get
- Yeah, we wouldn't pull them from Hoosier Hills, but we are actually, in our conversation with Boston
- Scientific, to the point where we're going to include a Spencer Owens superintendent. So... Right. With
- options, you're getting eight classrooms.
- like for 3.75 billion dollars a classroom. I mean, that's, you're only getting eight classrooms for
- 30 million dollars. That's, I don't know. I mean, and I'm a performing arts person. I get that,
- but it's, I just, I'm just having trouble with the cost of these things to think that we can,
- afford to go that far. Okay, you want to keep going? Yeah, keep going. We're just learning, we're digesting.
- We're just having a conversation, yeah. The next page is some costs that we really kind of work jointly
- with the school district
- in terms of roof replacement and pavement. And we've got a lot of roofs in the district and this lists
- different components of the high school, the junior high, intermediate, primary school. We broke out
- the membrane roof from the metal roofs at the intermediate and primary school. So that $10 million represents
- pretty much all the membrane roof on this campus.
- I don't know if you call this campus or not, but those four buildings. Then we've got another number
- down here. This came from, I think, one of the local contractors to do a roof over top of the standing
- scene. Martin and I think that's a healthy number. So there might be some work we can do on that one,
- but just didn't want to, we haven't done any analysis on that.
- I might just claim that that's somebody else's number. Is the standing scene groups failing? That's
- why Arnold's here. Huh? That's why Arnold's here. I talked to him. I talked to him. The standing scene
- groups, are they an issue at EIS and ETS? They're not as bad as the flat you were talking about. You
- want to get another 20-year done and get it done.
- There will last another 20, and that's going to be the way out right now. And I think. With this money,
- you're looking for 20-year plans. And Arnold, you and I had the conversation, too. We feel like that
- number, particularly this standing seam, has probably got it from a contractor, but we think it's pretty
- high on that. We did. And I believe there's probably other avenues to address that situation as well,
- as opposed to what you just said.
- I hesitate because it's not my number, right? So it could be high, it could be low. So I'm just saying
- there might be some other options that we could explore to look at that. And I think, Victor,
- we at Skillman, we've got the breakdown of what the contractor's intending to do. So I think we could probably,
- Put a pencil to it. Am I correct? That's not a replacement of the metal, one for one metal. It's actually
- an overlay with a membrane on top of the metal. Is that correct? Yeah. Which we've done several times.
- Normally, that's less expensive than the original metal. So that's why we think it's a little heavy.
- My immediate reaction to those numbers. You understand that? You're never upset when the numbers go
- down. You're just upset when the numbers go up. I wonder how that would look to them.
- Actually, it's surprising, you probably wouldn't know, because they weld on a kind of a rubber seam
- to make it look like the original metal. So it's a nice roof system, but it will replicate that appearance.
- The projects in Carvel that we did over the last 10 years, it's really a pretty good solution. So yeah,
- and as Jerry said, we kind of were bringing these together
- even today, so I think we could take a look at that, particularly the standing scene numbers,
- a little harder. So just for the board's information, then the paving repairs, I think another thing
- that Arnold put some work into, so I got a lot of asphalt around the district. We captured this by line
- item in $1.4 million, so you can do a lot of asphalt work for $1.4 million.
- Parking lots all over. So that's that page, just for the board's information. The next page is some
- specific mechanical projects. The temperature control system at the high school is, I believe, kind
- of end of life.
- Pretty critical infrastructure for the building. The engineer's estimate, this is some work that CEC
- did for the district, is a million dollars. That's, as you can imagine, that's rounded to the nearest
- 10,000, I would guess. But that doesn't surprise me for a comprehensive replacement. That wouldn't just
- be the electronics, that would be new valves and the full redo.
- The next item is the boilers. We've got four boilers there. That'd be replacement of the boilers, controls,
- and the pumps. And then at the junior high, similar, you have three boilers. And those are high efficiency
- boilers, controls, and replacement of the pumps. So that will all work. We put a general number of 20%
- on these last two pages. It's possible that we could do that for less than 20% saw cost.
- rather start out there and work our way down. Inevitably, we run into something that we have to do that
- has nothing to do with boilers in order to do boilers. So I'd like to start out with a number that's
- conservative and then work our way down from there. So that adds up to 2.4. And then the last page is
- just simply a series of totals for your information. Again, it's basically
- range of 50 to 53 and a half million. Okay, let's move to this document here. So obviously it's the
- common problem that we always have is more projects than we have money. So my intent here with this
- recommendation
- package is basically to give you an idea of where we are on some of our current geo bonds and older
- construction bonds and also to be able to take some of the needs that we have and find a home for them,
- places where we could potentially use some of our funds that we have existing
- the funds that we're getting ready to bond to meet as many needs as possible in the school corporation.
- And so we have two geo bonds that are open right now, geo bonds from 2022 and 24. The 22 bonds currently
- has a little over 3.6 million left in it. And the list of the
- the projects that when Matt was here, Matt kept a list of the potential projects that we could take
- from this geobond. I adjusted that list and I adjusted the amounts from that. Some of the important
- items on here, we are looking at the high school bleachers.
- I know that's a really high amount. It more than likely would not go that high, but our bleachers at
- the high score are old and they're not ADA compliant. What's that? Right. Right. We already approved
- the two school buses on there. That money's encumbered.
- They've already been ordered. You see classroom furniture on there. That's taking care of funding the
- furniture for some of the projects that we've been working on now in addition to some additional classroom
- furniture. That's what
- That's for the geo bonds for 2024 are mainly technology related for replacing student devices, replacing
- staff computers and laptops and other items related to technology. Some of that's already covered. Out
- of that, the entity covered, the mouse not on there then?
- It's being spent currently. So this has already been accounted for? This is what Matt and I came up
- with as the amount that we've received as a bond. And all the new computers came out of that 1.3? No.
- Well, they will. We've only spent $400,000 so far. This is a budget. I understand. How much of that's
- already been in cover is my question. We've already ordered it. Probably right now, student devices
- is probably about $400,000 maybe. OK. And the whole amount of the two buses is already, the full amount's in cover.
- Yes. The construction bonds, we have one sold as 2010 with $206,2773 in change. The bleachers at the
- junior high definitely need replaced. We need to find someplace to replace those bleachers. We need
- to find the funds. Right now, they're currently out.
- They cannot be pushed back. They're out until we replace them. So they're just beyond life on that.
- That's the bid to replace them or is that just an estimate? No, that's a quote. I thought it said 70
- cents that it was worth it. That's an actual quote from the company. Okay.
- Is that always just on one side of it? Right. Right. There's no nothing. There's no upstairs. And for
- gym class, they need those push back. That would be helpful. I think we ought to start spending that.
- Well, we're ready to go, but we really need to wait until April.
- because we get a better deal. April is apparently the ideal month that they don't have a lot of business.
- Everybody wants to do it during the summer, so if we do it during April, we'll save a lot of money for
- doing that. That's where the blades yourselves at. So is this the April price? What's that? Is this
- an April price, or is it gonna be lower? This is the April price.
- 2019 bonds. What's the September price? Do we know how much more though, seriously? Well, I didn't get
- to quote on September. We got the best, we got a pretty good deal, I understand. And the cheapest month
- is to do it as in April. I don't know how much more. It would be nice to know the difference
- because we've earned that much an interest. Right, yeah, we could do that. I mean, I'm just thinking
- outside. There's a $10,000 difference, one thing, and it's $100,000 difference. We just have a lot of
- needs, so. I understand, I understand. 2019, that's pretty much, we have a mediation, we have an issue
- with the contractor over concrete redo and the dining area behind the junior high, and we have a mediation
- coming up here in a couple weeks.
- So that money's just on hold until we see what comes out of that deal. That back wall at the junior
- high that we voted to do behind the bleachers, is it there? The back wall. There was like an extra area
- that they John or they wanted for an in-school suspension? Yes. Is that completed? Yes. Okay.
- 2020 bonds are a little over 63,000 left in that. The only thing left to come out of that would be coming
- up with some graphics to put in here and not in the hallway. It would not come up to 63,000, so don't
- get worried about that. That was a really big picture. Yeah, right. It's just that we don't have anything
- else planned for that.
- that right now, other than the graphics for the boardroom and in the hallway. If we had to throw a little
- bit of that towards the EJHS bleachers, that would be the end of the world. The 2023 construction bonds,
- that's what we're working out of right now. And that's two and a half million left. And I don't know,
- Martin, if you want to say where we are with the current
- and what's coming out of there yet to come, or? No. I guess I'm not. The activity center slash field
- house. So this is the bomb project for the EEC and the field. You're right, so. We're nearing probably
- mid-October. So we've got 2.5 million current balance. When is that going to get us to the end? We have
- allowances in there. You'll probably get money back. So we should have some left over, hopefully. Yeah.
- Cafeteria in good shape? Cafeteria is, what we'll do is a cafeteria, throw me there for a second. The
- kitchen equipment's coming in the next couple of weeks.
- what we will, Dirk wanted for the Hill 800, we won't be quite ready for the Hill 800, although it'll
- be done and ready to move into. Then when we turn over the existing kitchen, we will take over the old
- kitchen and do demo. So that's when the rest of the cafeteria part will be completed. So that, we'll
- turn over the,
- The new kitchen, you move into it and then probably in November we'll finish it out and then you get
- the rest of the cafeteria area will be done at that time. The month would be? In November. In November,
- okay. Yeah, we're really hoping to be done, done and punched out first of December. Okay.
- Jerry, remind me about the safe walkway between the junior high and high school. That's on the list
- of things to do. That's not part of this. That's not part of the 2024? No. So I haven't seen that anywhere,
- or have I missed it? Well, it's baked into. Oh, I see the pathway. Yeah, I see it. Yeah. I mean, we
- did an estimate. I think Jerry pulled it out and put it on the line item. The 282. Yeah. OK.
- But that will have nothing to do with that between the softball fields and behind the football field.
- We're not doing anything back here. Not as part of this. It's going to be along, no, the pathway is
- going to be along the football field baseball deck. And it makes sense. Logistically, it makes sense
- there. Mask it. In terms of? It looks like it to me.
- Yeah, I don't think you want. We won't have people parking anymore. You don't want students walking
- through the football complex. But I just, we don't want, we want to make sure kids are on the pathway,
- not out there in the road. Right. We included a fence with the sidewalk. Right. So there'll be fences
- on both sides of the sidewalk? Yes. Correct. Well met and everything else. So you'll get lights in your
- backyard with the truck.
- So for the projects that we're bonding now for that we've advertised, the last two pages kind of give
- you an indication of what I'm suggesting we take out of this next round of bonds. And the last page
- kind of gives you an idea of
- of all the items that we advertised where we would be taking the funds out of to do those projects.
- So going over the page on page three, I recommended we do option two. And you'll notice that the projected
- cost that I put in there is 500,000 less than what
- as Skillman suggested, but that's accounting for the 500,000 we're gonna get from the Ready 2.0 funds.
- Yeah, for sure. That money's sitting somewhere. We will be getting that, yes. We don't have it yet.
- And it doesn't have to be shown, it has to be used for certain things? It has to be for brick and mortar.
- Brick and mortar, okay, perfect. And it has to be spent by December, 2028.
- And then I added the softball and baseball turf in there. Now, you know, people are always asking. And
- so the athletic director would like us all to also to do soccer and suggested that other school corporations
- that did baseball and softball also did soccer and then got a better price.
- I don't think we're ready to do that. So I just kept it at baseball and softball turf, plus the renovations
- to the softball field. So that figure is exactly what Skillman is recommending. And then I included
- the high school roof in that. I included the asphalt. Now I didn't include the price for Edgewood Drive
- in there. Like I said, I was trying to look for ways
- not spend as much money, so I just wanted to make a note of that. The pathway between the junior high
- and high schools included in here. We went up and took a look at the tennis court area, and our hope
- was to totally replace everything, repave it, new fencing,
- new lighting, sidewalks around, concrete around the perimeter. So there would be a place for people
- to sit and watch the tennis matches. We really, we haven't really been able to have somebody give us
- a specific quote on that.
- We didn't have time to do all that. We did get some numbers from MCC who is in the process of replacing
- their tennis courts and they estimated 200,000 per court and that didn't include fencing and lighting
- and all that. So this is just repairing the,
- cracks. Right, so this would buy us a few more years. Yes. I put I put 800,000 nothing here is written
- in stone, by the way.
- This is just for something for us to start talking about. But I put $800,000 in there mainly to take
- care of the boilers that we need to replace. We probably need some additional funds for that. The controls,
- I was hoping, and I talked to the guy that we talked to about Gabe. What's Gabe's last name?
- What's that? Yeah. And I asked him if we could possibly push out the controls to 2027 and he thought
- we could piecemeal it to get there. Now, I am not an expert in any way on HVAC, but
- my own personal opinion, it just feels like an endless pit. Because I'll be honest with you, as I took
- over some of these things for Matt and I watched Matt last year and watched Arnold, I've just seen him
- running around here like their heads are cut off.
- even after we spent a lot of money. And so starting the school year, we had some issues at the high
- school. We had some issues at the elementary school. And so we had a meeting with Johnson Control and
- Gabe. And I wanted to learn from that conversation, you know, why is that? And I did discover that it
- was my assumption when we were
- spending this money on HVAC that we were replacing the whole systems and we were not. We were just replacing
- pieces that were broken. And that's been a philosophy of the school corporation for a number of years.
- So where we are right now is that we have brand new equipment that's trying to talk with equipment that's
- 20, 25 years old.
- And that's why we constantly are having issues because we need to have folks like Johnson Control come
- in and try to get these different versions working and talking together again. I really think we need
- to develop a long-term plan with HVAC that's going to be very expensive down the road.
- We don't have that right now. We're trying to put that plan together. But down the road, I just think
- that if we just keep piecemealing things, we're going to continue to have problems. So I kind of put
- some money in here to take care of the most immediate needs and put HVAC on there for 2027.
- So by then we'll have a more established plan of where we need to go with HVAC. In my ears on the board,
- it seems like we replace borrowers almost every other year. It's a borrower going somewhere. The Boys
- and Girls Club, we accounted for a lot of money out there. Is it completed yet? It's completed,
- but we... I mean, we spent a ton of money. Yeah, it's completed, but there continue to be issues.
- Is it because of the supplier or the installer? The word I got really today was that really they used
- a more cheaper version of what they should have done. And so we're going to be taking a look at using
- our warranty to get what they put in replaced. We haven't had it a year yet.
- Right. Arnold, do you have anything to add to that? They just continue to fail. But it didn't even get
- done. Oh yeah, it's done.
- Cause I saw him out there all summer working at different, where the contractors were. I mean, anybody
- here that has more knowledge about HVAC than I do, but it is very complicated area. So for me, the novice,
- we spent a lot of money, why is it just working? But it sounds like that today's equipment is what there's
- a lot more technology involved. And so,
- It's very sensitive, I guess. Globally, we have seen more and more poor quality manufactured products
- show up, missing parts, errors in the construction. Just right from the factory installed with problems
- that have to be then repaired on warranty. That has become
- more common than it should be. A lot of assembly issues. The second piece is that as they've been trying
- to drive efficiency for energy efficiency, they're getting more and more sensitive, more and more computer
- based, more and more, just everything has to work perfectly in order for it to work at all kind of a
- situation. And as they've driven this higher technology for higher performance,
- the life cycle's gotten shorter. I mean, this phone's two years old. I mean, it's the same kind of situation
- where the technology has a shorter life cycle. So mechanical equipment, it used to have a big boiler
- that lasts for 40, 50 years, made out of cast iron, had a burner and it hooked it up to the gas. Now
- it's very high performance, high and made out of very thin sheet metal. And then I guess the fourth
- component is we have a shrinking
- workforce of the technology and the quality that understands how to install and maintain and repair
- these systems. So we have a lot of things working against us. And so you're not alone if that makes
- you feel any better in terms of the kind of experiences that we're having across the board in the industry.
- Not to mention, I'm sure you have existing buildings that are a little over.
- I don't mean to be Debbie Downer, just the reality. You're not gonna invite me back, are you?
- Thanks a lot. Okay, so moving forward for the junior high, this would be exactly as Misha described
- the project for 6.6 million. The roof,
- for the junior high and also asphalt around the junior high and the parking lots. And then EPS and EIS
- includes a roofing for that and also asphalt. Now we were out there today looking at a possible solution
- of what we could do with the traffic on Reeves Road.
- in terms of getting some of that traffic off of Rees Road and he was an engineer, right? Civil engineer.
- Civil engineer that he's gonna look at two or three different options of what we could do to try to
- address that need. So we may need to look for, if we wanna take care of that,
- Sooner we'll need to find some funds. If not, we'll put that off to later bonding time. And then on
- page four at the bottom are just some projects that have been mentioned through all these conversations
- to get to the point we are today. These are just some additional projects that have been mentioned.
- to me that I just want to put them on the list as future projects, which would be HVAC work. We really
- wanted to get a new technology office and storage room, but I just don't see how we can do that right
- now. Oh, this renovating old band and choir rooms to gain additional classrooms.
- I should have taken that off. On the last page at the bottom. So you don't have that. Let me. That's
- not part of no, no, this is just this is just be down the road so that the band current band choir would
- mean as they are. They can manipulate them to use them as they need to school.
- Yeah, let me let me explain it first. So one of the things I was trying to do to save money looking
- at the junior high was to just do the expansion, the band and choir room expansion and leave the old
- band and choir area as is. And I was talking to Kent Rensselaer about can we move some programs
- into those spaces without renovating them. And his response was it really wouldn't gain us maybe one
- classroom. And plus he's talking about some additional and he's trying to think ahead in terms of there's
- a large journeys classroom that
- that they may eventually inherit those kids and have to have a space available to them. So my original
- idea to try to reduce that figure that we had for the junior high, according to the principal, that
- wouldn't work. So I went ahead and
- and put the full amount in there. And then I forgot and I put that here on the list of future projects.
- So that really could be crossed out there. That's not part of the 2025. Right, right. Tennis
- court replacement. Like I said, when we met with the principal, high school principal and a high school
- athletic director, they also talked about needs down at the soccer field.
- in terms of turf and also having concession and storage area down there. Parking around campus, mowing
- equipment and just additional items. That's just a very fluid list. We really don't need to spend a
- lot of time on. So if you look at that table on page four, I put in red those projects that we advertised that
- We don't have to do this all once, and I'm not nearly closely suggesting we do all this all at once,
- but we can address all these areas if we so wanted to. And then if the board would say, yeah, that sounds
- like a good idea, then we'll work with Skillman to kind of map out, okay, what projects does it make
- sense to connect
- like we included the field house and the preschool together so that we can save some money on having
- the construction companies here. And that really would prove to be very beneficial because to get the
- preschool done, we pulled some people from,
- We, Martin and his team, pulled some people from the field house to get the preschool done. So it does
- help us with cost. It helps with being able to adjust how the projects are going. And so I just wanted
- to show you that we could, if we wanted to, address almost all of the projects that we advertised. Now,
- this would involve bonding, getting all 40 million
- upfront, which would be my recommendation because it does give us that money at one time. It enables
- us to be able to react to maybe some anticipated issues that might come up that we would have all those
- funds available. Plus, we would be able to gain some
- money from interest rates and I have oh yeah I have here we've I mean if you wanted to know Debbie gave
- me some figures today on the different funds that we have in the interest the interest that we've gained
- from that and so yes I don't have a copy right now but I'll make copies so
- Matt, do you want to add, have you listened to some things in terms of how this would impact us? I think
- from my point of view, it's kind of the same that it's been the last few times that we've talked.
- I mean, we've been looking at this 40 million structured in a way that you can come back in a couple
- years and potentially borrow more money to address some of these other needs that
- Dr. Sanders has talked about in the future. I will say, you know, if you borrow the full 40 million
- now, looking ahead, you know, remaining capacity is somewhere in the 30 to 35 million dollars, depending
- on where interest rates are. That assumption is that you keep your debt service levy constant. Levy
- being the number of dollars that you're asking for from taxpayers.
- I will say that I think that that's probably going to be difficult to maintain in perpetuity in terms
- of everything costs more in the future. And so keeping a levy constant for 20 years I think might be
- difficult, but that's kind of how we've run it now. And so as you guys have more conversations and want
- to look at something perhaps differently or just different scenarios, we can certainly do that.
- But yeah, I mean the 40 million can be borrowed without increasing the levy and still retain capacity
- in the future. It's just that you prioritize some of these projects, so you're able to do everything
- that you want to do under kind of these constraints. How do you define future? How many years? So the
- way we have it set up right now. Yeah, I don't know if we should look at that again or not.
- Yeah, the way we have it set up now is that you could come back in 27 and do additional projects. But
- that is totally fluid and up to you. That's just kind of the way that we've run it. As of now, if you
- come back and say we need to do more next year, then we can structure it that way. And our tax rate
- can remain level or drop a bit. We have no control over the tax rate anymore because of what the assessed
- value is likely to do. So we're talking about the dollars. What we're likely to see over the next five years
- is if you ask for the same dollars in your debt service fund each and every year, I would expect the
- tax rate to be higher at the end of that five years. Now it may not be each and every year. Your assessed
- value went up half a percent, half a percent this year. And so if you keep your debt service levy level
- from 25 to 26, your tax rate's gonna go from $1.03 to $1.04.
- It's going to go up because you're taking new money and operations. That's where they give you the growth
- quotient of four percent. So the total levy is going up, but it has nothing to do with these projects.
- It's solely from the operations fund. And so if we see an assessed value that doesn't grow or potentially
- goes down,
- even if you're asking for the same dollars, that tax rate is gonna go higher. And I think that is gonna
- be the difficult thing and I'm still having to wrap my head around it. We've had the Senate bill run
- for five months. We've been talking about tax rate for five or six years and you guys have hit the tax
- rate each and every year and now the way they're changing the math is you don't really have any control
- over that. So now we're looking at the dollars that you're asking for and so the assumption is that
- would be flat line moving forward.
- At this current time, as we run some of these projections in terms of how much. Taxpayer there says
- value may drop, but their tax rate, but their total tax dollars would be very comfortable is my point.
- That's what I'm 100%. I mean, that's kind of, we've worked at the other way before. If you ask for the
- same dollars.
- from this year to next year, the assessed value almost doesn't matter. It could go down 50%. Your tax
- rate is going to go higher to generate the same dollars. Correct. So their tax bill that they get twice
- a year is going to look very comparable. 100%. The portion of the tax bill that they get
- the only increase that they may see is because of the operations fund. They will not see an increase
- at all because of this project, because we're leveling out that debt service leverage, yes. So it's
- gonna be the interplay between the assessed value and the tax rate. That's gonna be jumping around each
- and every year, so I think we're gonna see some wonky results, but now we're talking about the dollars
- asked for. So what we just paid November's gonna be paid?
- Our goal is going to be common. We're going to work it back. At some point in the future
- It is my expectation that levies are gonna have to start growing again a little bit. Now, is that the
- cost of inflation? I don't know. Right, I get that. You're doing this project in 2025, and Victor prices
- it for this same project in 2035. That's where it's gonna be hard, I think, to hold that levy constant
- forever. But certainly we can do it through this project and through the near future. And if the taxes
- change, it's not...
- it's gonna be because of the school. It's gonna be a thousand Elksfield annex and they're gonna be paying
- more Elksfield. Or like the fire department, that could affect everybody too. But if we're positive,
- if we're optimistic and think that the ADA here is going to continue to grow. Even if it doesn't. Or
- half a percent. Right. If the tax rate goes up a little, like two cents, it's still gonna bounce up
- to the same dollar.
- Yes. And it's a good distinction, too. So I want to make this clear. Try to explain that to taxpayers.
- Of course. The tax liability that the taxpayer pays for the school corporation is going to be comparable.
- Now, is the total tax bill going to potentially, but your portion that you're responsible for?
- We can control, correct. Yes. Yes.
- which is different than we've been doing because of the assessed value growing, we've actually been
- increasing our levy. Correct. And taking advantage of all that up until this point. So lowering the
- tax rate, correct? Yeah, because the assessed value went so high, we were able to lower the tax rate
- and still bring in a lot more money. And by the 2027 potential bond, there'll be another
- It's sad, but they've been pretty clear that
- They're going to reopen it next year and that we have heard now. Does that impact K-12? It's too early
- to say, but we've heard from legislators that they're not thrilled. Yeah, we also need some help.
- I think what I've heard when they're not happy with what I don't think they think they went far enough.
- And so I don't I don't anticipate them opening the budget for reprieve. I think if the budget get open,
- I think there's more downside risk than there is upside risk. Yeah. So I don't mean to get you optimistic
- because I don't. Thanks for bursting the buzzer. We're me busting, right? Right. Right. Oh, now that's
- going on. It's already up to Jake and Chappell. They're paying.
- else will city taxes to pop up. Yeah, so I don't know. Are you sitting with us now? No, no. It's coming
- in a wheel tax. Yeah, I'm hearing that a lot. They could do what they tried to get him to go the most,
- but having a couple more members didn't want to do that. But we're we're not rehiring a police officer.
- I guess that's why I'm so sensitive about what's going on. Yeah, we're not lost police officer. Yeah, so.
- Jerry, I know I went out of the room for a moment, but what were you saying about the renovation of
- these classrooms? I was looking for ways to get the biggest bang for our buck. It's not in this is what
- I'm getting at. It is. Where is it?
- Where it says $6,600,938? Yeah, that's the performing arts. It doesn't include the $2.2 million to renovate
- banding choir. Oh, it's your junior high one that you were talking about that you were going to do the...
- Oh, okay. So right now, if you add that back in, you're over $42 million. Right, okay. I meant to...
- I thought I put that back in there.
- Because for the 40 million, you're only getting three classrooms. Yeah, you're right. So I don't know.
- I just got it. Well, I was hoping that we were going to move further. But I don't think that I can vote
- for spending
- that much, $40 million, and not doing much at all for education. Yeah. Educational space. And I know
- some of these spaces get used for education, too, but I don't mean that. And yes, I mean, we have successful
- performing arts programs, but they do have them in the space they have. And they do need more space.
- Well, that's the purpose of this meeting is I'm looking for guidance on whether or not we want to ask
- for the full 40 million. I want to write. Yeah. So just a quick distinction on that and that there's
- probably not to the point where he has any sort of draw schedule, but typically we fund these projects.
- one year at a time, right? And so you could certainly borrow the 40 million. If Victor and Martin tell
- us, you know, it's going to be a two year spend down, then we're essentially
- starting to pay interest on 40 million dollars and we're taking us two years to spend and so kind of
- the way we started to do this just for efficiency purposes and help your capacity is if they tell us
- you can only spend 20 million dollars next year in terms of these projects then we borrow that 20 million
- now we fund it through next year come back next year and do the remaining 20 million or whatever you
- guys decide that it is
- That way we're not paying interest on the full 40 million from day one. It will increase your debt capacity.
- But if they tell us, no, we can spend all this money in 14 months or 12 months, and certainly we can
- go and borrow it all. These projects, I think, tend to take a little bit longer than they did five or
- six years ago. But I would look to these guys on a spend down. I doubt we're quite there yet, though.
- I don't know if you have any. The rough rule of thumb is I'd like to have
- no more than a million dollars a month in new construction, right? So, you know, if you were building
- a $10 million addition, I would want a year to do that. A $20 million addition, I don't want two years
- to do it. I mean, that's the rule of thumb we start with. So you have to spend down by two years, 95%
- of the money?
- Yeah, point which the bond sale closes is that what yeah I mean that's that's for arbitrage purposes
- and that's not something I get super concerned about right now yeah I mean that.
- A lot of times when you say you have two years to spend, people think we literally only have two years
- to spend. You have as long as you need to spend. That's for arbitrage purposes. What that is is if you
- earn, say you borrow the $40 million, you put it in the bank, as you spend it down, if you earn an interest
- rate on that, essentially investment income that is above the interest rate of the bonds,
- then you would need to give that back to the IRS if you don't spend all of the dollars within two years.
- I don't typically get super concerned, because we're talking tens of thousands of dollars that maybe
- you have to give back. You don't have to give back all the interest. You only have to give back the
- delta between what you could earn and what you did earn. And so I don't want you guys to get caught
- up on that is like the most important thing ever. That's exactly right. That is exactly right.
- historically when rates were super low, you weren't ever getting close. Now that rates are a little
- bit higher, that's a potential. However, we're probably going into a cycle of rates coming down. So
- if you were to borrow this money today at 4%, you're likely not earning 4% a year from now if the Fed
- starts cutting the way they're saying they're going to cut. And so I don't see that as being a huge,
- I guess, consideration in terms of this. But yeah, it's a two-year spend down to meet the arbitrage
- requirements. So the nice thing I should point out is that that's not cumulative of a million.
- So for example, if we had a million in addition and then we had a concurrent asphalt of a million or
- a concurrent roofing of a million, we could work that into it. So I don't necessarily mean if you spent
- 30 million in construction that it's 30 months.
- stack those projects just like we stack these together. Those are collected just collectively per year.
- It was like 60, 70,000 past years.
- They're not sitting in the same account 130,000. They're all in separate accounts, earning separate
- interest. You've got to track separately, and then the money's got to go into those specific projects.
- Correct. That is correct, yes. What's the most it is?
- You're probably right at 4%. Rates have come down about a quarter of a point in the last three days
- because we've gotten a bunch of bad economic news, and so now we're thinking the Fed's gonna have to
- cut and potentially even do a double cut here at the end of this month. I'll believe that when I see
- it the way they've been doing the last year. But there is momenta. There's a lot of momentum for lower
- rates, and certainly Powell's, he's gonna be out
- next spring and so they're starting to replace kind of those spots with some people that want rates
- to come down. So I think it's coming but we've been saying that for 18 months and so. What's the time
- frame on wanting to get these issued? So you'll be through the legal process to where you're free and
- clear to sell. I think it's October 30th
- 23rd looking at jacob's time so right now we're anticipating the first week of november so we still
- got some time for you guys to put your heads together figure out exactly how you want to do this we're
- not under the gun yet by by any means and all that powerful stuff you you your parameter was i think
- it's six percent wasn't it i think i even had seven percent maybe yeah we want to be
- Nowhere. Yeah, I had 7% in there. So again, as we sit here today, we might even be under four after
- today's movement.
- If the Fed doesn't cut in September or they don't do what the market expects, we might see rates revert
- back higher. So I don't want to get you too excited with that 4% because a lot of things could change.
- 100%. And even when I tell you kind of those capacity, I'm running everything at a 5% interest rate.
- And so if interest rates end up coming down or staying down, then that capacity goes up. So yeah, I
- don't want you to get stuck on these are the end all be all numbers.
- because there are just projections based on certain assumptions that might change. So the concern that
- Dana brought up, would you like us to, yeah, would you like us to go back and take another look at this
- and make the banding? I don't remember what the classroom needs were at each building, what they were
- needing and projecting that they would need.
- So I don't know what the, I don't remember, was that in that facilities? When? The facility study? Yeah.
- Well, that's been a while back, so. So, yeah, it'd be. Isn't it just really a result of, once you build
- an addition, what you have is what you have to remodel into other use of space? Yeah. Right, the space
- is good. The space is interesting. Whatever you have, the space you vacated creates five or six classrooms,
- The question is how much do you want to spend on the new addition or whether you want to do a new addition?
- I mean, maybe it's that simple, I don't know. Well, or should some of that addition be classrooms? Is
- there enough class? For more capacity. Yes. Do we need more classrooms? For more capacity. For performing
- arts space. Like that, in terms of adding a classroom? Yeah. Okay, because this space is not changing
- at all. Space is still going to be all right.
- Yes. If they go down here, I find it hard to believe that six classrooms here can all be made by one
- person. Well, that would be without remodeling. Like the choir room has concrete bleachers, so you really
- can't make that a classroom. Okay, I'd just like to see it. The band room is rather large, so it wouldn't
- be a typical classroom. Yeah.
- So it would need some adjustments. I thought we were going to do something up here with choir and just
- make classrooms here originally. Well, but what they were looking at was the, they were talking about
- this plus this stuff here. The weight room area. Right. And then turn this all down here to classrooms.
- Well, that was a possibility. That was one of the things. Yeah, one of the issues.
- was this height of the ceiling, the roof to be able to put. One of the things that I'm not arguing,
- I'm just raising other points a little bit. One of the things I worry about is putting money into additional
- band acquirer space. And then as soon as we're done, people saying it's just not big enough. We've already
- said that.
- Our band director will say that no matter how much we get in. Well, we always hear that on all of our
- projects, you're right. And I mean, love him to death, but Dirk is, if we added 15 new classrooms, he
- would say he needed another classroom. Or another office space. Yeah. Storage. Yeah. But we can go back
- and take another look at it for sure. Yeah.
- worked, you said some of the other schools were maybe a little bit bigger in us that had similar facilities.
- Have you designed these facilities with two thirds of space of what we're asking for? I think we have
- examples from all ranges and it seems to be driven by the success of the program. Quite frankly, it
- seems like
- I mean, even in the same district, I might have one school, a middle school that's super music and they
- have busting from the seams. And then on the other side of the district, they don't have very strong
- programs. So it's very, it's very circumstantial to, you know, the success of the program. And people
- are very, very vocal about the space they need in order to move.
- to be able to set up and have indoor space. And again, we're being able to have all this success and
- having lost students that I know of because of it with the facilities we have. So I do think making
- them better, we need to make them better. I guess one of the things I really need to know how many more
- classrooms we really do and where do we need them at?
- You know, do we need more classrooms and EIS and EPS? EPS got those four that they've taken over, so
- that's really helped. But, you know, I... Well, junior high is a school of the greatest need, I'd say.
- Right. One thing you might think about is
- And if you look at it option two biomedical labs converted to classrooms, that's $2.6 million. So that
- probably not going to move the needle very much. It's X amount of space that you're going to remodel
- into something. The performing arts edition as proposed is 11.4. That's I think with the mezzanine is
- closer to 20,000 square feet. But so it is.
- Easily twice as big as two and a half times. I guess my point is, if you just replicated the square
- footage you have now, you're probably in five to six million dollars. So if 11.4 is too much and you
- wouldn't replicate how much square footage you have now, five to six, what's the speed spot?
- What's your threshold? That's another way to look at it. I don't want to replicate what I have, but
- maybe this is too much. So it must be somewhere between five and a half and 11 and a half. Is that a
- fair statement? I mean, just looking at the footprint, the band is real close to the size of the band
- inquired now.
- But I think that's what Jerry may have been asking. If I was Misha, I'd be like, okay, well, if that's
- too big, what is big enough? But that's just the band room. That doesn't count the fact that there's
- all those other offices and the equipment storage and all that that's not even in that band room anymore.
- You have 7,200 square feet now. The design's proposing over 18.
- in the 7,200 includes band, choir, and auxiliary rooms. So if you put it in dollars perspective, if
- I replicate what I have, I'm somewhere around five to six million. If I more than double and do what's
- shown, it's 11.4. So I think what I'm hearing you say is you want a solution somewhere between five
- to six and 11.4. Is that it?
- Or I think what I picked up is, if we're gonna do this much, why isn't more of it classroom space?
- Why isn't? Okay, it's maybe 11.4 is the right number, but it needs to have classroom space incorporated.
- Is that another way to say it? I don't think a hundred burns. The amount of money we're putting into
- classrooms is minimal with this $40 million, and I have a hard time stomaching that.
- So, and to me, the place to get more classroom space out of, or to cut costs so that you can use that
- money somewhere else, would be to lower the amount of performing arts space in the two buildings. Your
- heartburn isn't the $40 million, it's what it's being spent on. Exactly. The efficiency of what it's
- spent on. The total student population using
- Does that sound right? Well, just what is your basic academics as opposed to the arts academics? Science,
- English, math, all those other things. Well, I understand where you come from, Dana. The one thing I
- will point out is that it's been
- In the last four years, we have added quite a bit of classroom space. We haven't done anything for the
- science labs. And that would be the counterbalance to that. But I don't think that balance is out. That,
- making them three to four times the size. I don't think that balance is out to me. If that's the case,
- then we should be
- putting that money into something else, whether it's more the HVAC or more the roof or more the,
- you know, there's other needs out there that I just think we're spending too much on performing arts
- when we have so many other needs. I'm not worried about the 40 million, I'm just worried about what
- that 40 million is. So if we took a arbitrary percentage, say two thirds of that 18-8,
- and added that space and whatever that would save us, put that toward the HVAC and some of the other
- stuff, I think, probably. Even if it's not classrooms. Right, something that makes that 40 million a
- little less. And I think if we're looking at 27, 28, somewhere in there for maybe even other bonds,
- things like, okay, well, what if we did for the softball,
- What if we fixed the field and gave him a concession stand and bathroom and left it at that for now?
- What if we just, of course I understand if you're turfing the pitching. You don't want to separate that
- necessarily.
- I don't know, or maybe you do one film and then three years later you do the other film or something.
- You take those phone calls? Yeah.
- Well, I mean, I played on that. I'm having issues with the turfing too, because it's like there's so
- many other things, like you're saying, classroom HVAC, the roofs, all the things that we have to do,
- we have to get that done first. Turfing is way low in my opinion on that total. I understand what you're
- saying, but in terms of in this day and age when,
- Parents can take their kids anywhere. Their athletes can take their athletes anywhere. We are getting
- behind on our fields being turfed and we will lose students going to MCC. Martin Zoll has all their
- fields turfed now. MCC has all their fields turfed.
- I think Spencer Owens going that way now. And so parents were quite frankly, and I'm not arguing with
- you, I'm just saying parents will choose to go places where the facilities are better for the sport.
- I mean, when I played sport, you had a coach that could coach your, it didn't matter what field we played
- on. Didn't matter if it was, if you had a good coach, you had quality stuff, your students are gonna
- stay. It's not because you have a turf field or not.
- I don't know, I have a problem with that being at a higher level. There's more other things, in my opinion,
- to spend that 2. whatever million on. Just not right now, and then just walking into what we're gonna
- be walking into in the next few years. Well, I like the turf. I think we need to do it. I think it brings
- people in, so. Well, the other thing, Jerry's talking
- wear and tear. Well, yeah, and also tournaments. I mean, I just think it's we're going into a different
- world. Yeah, a couple of years ago, we had to we were hosting the sectionals and rained a lot. So we
- had to move the sectionals over to Bloomington North. Yeah. OK.
- Is everybody at least comfortable with the concept of bonding? The full 40? The full 40, yes. Then we
- can crank it up if we want to. I think we're already kind of arguing over what ought to be spent in
- that 40. Yeah, I mean, I don't think we have a choice. I mean, honestly, I think we need to. Yeah. I
- really do. I just really want to keep it in our 30, honestly. Like the episode in which we would end
- up. But I like that.
- if she could send it to us again. Showing how the capacity works out. Well, and as they drop off, then
- I think I do like the idea, Jerry, of picking up some of those, we need to get some of those cleared
- out, pick up some projects, wrap these up, some of those old bars, we need to get those down. Well,
- and the idea of 20 this year and 20 next, that makes some sense too. The stacking may be a little,
- because if you look at your biggest one, that's like 12 months. But then you also have all the time
- to design, so does that include the design time or is that just construction time? That was construction
- when I was talking about. I would encourage you if you're going to do a junior high edition and a high
- school edition, I would encourage you to put those together.
- I think what Jerry articulated earlier makes a lot of sense. On the other hand, if you want to pull
- a trigger on HVAC, roofing, or pavement, I don't see the same kind of concerns. Although we could combine
- mechanical with the additions, you could also do it independent. But those would be some things if you
- want to peel off and get going on. Those would be a first choice.
- hold off on the asphalt until most of the construction. That's a good point. That's a good point, although
- I think there's, yeah, depends on where we're at in that, right? Yeah. Does that keep us out of that?
- What's that bracket, 75% or 60%? 70 cents. But by doing a stairs test, would that be still fine on that
- thing? If we did 20 main twice, the range could go that way, too.
- Yeah, if you keep your levy level, then the stair stepping is not going to impact that. It's solely
- going to be based off of your AB drop and how quickly does it drop. What the stair stepping would help
- do is increase your overall debt capacity. So if you did it all now and then the rest in 27,
- you're talking, you know, 70 to 75 million. Does that number become 75 to 80 million by splitting this
- up? That's where if you're saving
- interest costs, that means you can add more principal in there. The 70 cents is solely going to be a
- function of your assessed value moving forward if you decide to keep that levy level each and every
- year. So if your assessed value, let's just say flat lines, then you're not going to get to the 70 cents
- because you guys are at 65 cents right now. But if you lose 5%,
- in 27, let's say, you're gonna start creeping towards that 70 cents. So my expectation for you is by
- the time we get to 31, and I mentioned 31, because that's when all of the Senate Bill 1 is fully phased
- in, my guess is you will be above 70 cents, but that's a time, I just don't know how it's ultimately
- gonna impact your assessed value. So many changes. So many changes. So I know it's not helpful, but
- I don't really have any answers beyond
- next year, because that's the only data we have. I don't know what the rates are going to be. The bond
- rates are two years from now. If it dips below four, we lock in the whole thing, and we're not really
- going to be too concerned about arbitrage anyway. I don't foresee that being an issue for you guys.
- I don't foresee arbitrage being an issue for you guys, no. I was doing arbitrage, it just means you
- have excess, so. That's right.
- Yeah, you still keep what you earn. You just have to get back what you earned in excess. But with the
- rates likely coming down, we're kind of on the cycle where rates are probably going to come back down.
- You're likely to lock in a rate and then your investment rates start coming down. So my guess is you
- won't run into it. But again, we just don't know that. I have a couple of questions for roofing. Does
- it save money to do all the roofs at one time?
- Or can we do like the elementary schools first, then the high school, then the junior high? I think
- that there's a diminishing return once you get to a certain point, Jerry. So I would almost think if
- you did the high school and then coupled the rest of them. I was gonna say $10 million worth of roofing
- is more than anybody could, if most companies could take on at one time. So to your point about,
- phasing the roofing out, yes. That you're not gonna lose that economy of scale if you broke that in
- three or four phases. So yes, to answer your question, we could break the roofing out into two or three
- years easily and not lose that economy of scale. All right, I appreciate that. The other question for
- the board is, do you, given some of the other needs that we have with this biomedical training project,
- Would you, what are your thoughts on scaling that back in terms of, we are pretty far along with Boston
- Scientific. Boston Scientific and Cook Medical, they could basically use one classroom, maybe, yeah,
- one classroom.
- at the risk of not taking the 500,000. I just want to make sure, I want to see, I just want to know
- kind of your thoughts on, are you convinced? I mean, I'm obviously very convinced in that project, but
- as a board, I would like to have some directions of, we don't want to take all,
- We don't want to take the grant just to get, we don't spend a lot of money just to get the grant. We
- want to spend the money to meet needs. So. I'm very committed to that concept of the medical career
- path. And I think that is, I think we've,
- invested a lot in it already and that we've really, I don't know, I'm banking on it, I'm counting on
- it, helping our community, our students for a number of years to come. I'd hate to see us scale it back.
- I think we've already had it back from what I originally saw. I just want to, I'm just trying to get
- some. I would like to see something, I know it's early maybe, but I would like to see something more
- in concrete
- from what they're willing to give back to us, who bosses scientific and cook. The grant's not coming
- from the MGR, it's coming from our own. And I know they're excited about it, but we're doing all the
- legwork. What are they bringing to the table? I've not seen it yet. Maybe you've seen it and you haven't
- shared it. But I'd like to see what we're gonna get in return for that. The whole idea was that they
- would provide the facilitators to come onto our campus
- And we see it in writing. Well, something I just started talking to Christine about, I think, or I meant
- to. She's like, no, not yet. It's on my list to do that. I'd like to create some MOUs with them and
- have the board approve those MOUs.
- If we're committing to doing this, what are you gonna commit to us? And I'd like to see, are we, you
- did mention IU or IU Health or SEMTRA, are we still in discussion with them or are they cooling down?
- We're in conversation with all three of them and we've even been approached by SEMTRA to get involved. I,
- IU Health has a gentleman that, he's a professor at IU, but he goes all over the country and sets up
- these sim labs. And so he volunteered actually to work with us on creating one of these labs to be like
- a sim lab. Yeah. That'd be super. Yeah. So yeah, I'd love to see. I think the big benefit to this is
- because it's a big benefit to our students. And it's helping them get prepared for jobs. Well, and a
- lot of high schools are currently having their students start as juniors and already like in the nursing
- field, they're already taking courses. So by the time they're out of high school, they have almost,
- and some have gotten their associate's degree already. That's one favor the general assembly did is
- that they're allowing under 18,
- And they're getting almost that already Hoosier Hills right now. That's correct. I thought we could
- flip it. Exactly. They're watching it out with the socials at area 30. So are you happy with the number
- of classrooms we would be gaining at the junior high? I don't know. I would like to know, you know,
- from, you know, what the anticipated need is.
- going to be for the next, even if it's five years. Well, we had the demographic, two demographic studies
- done, and the last one said there'd be slow, steady growth. Right. There was also big bubbles that come
- through that can be difficult to deal with. So I don't know.
- I don't know what those projections are. I don't know how many classrooms were short now that if we
- had these classrooms, we need these classrooms. So what are we short now? What is anticipated being
- short? Well, what if the journeys does move into the junior? Where's that? How many kids are you talking about?
- off the top of my head, I don't know exactly. We're not talking 100 kids, no. No, no. Less than 10.
- I'd say it's minimal growth, yeah. Yeah, so you don't need 6,000 square feet for 12 years. Right, no.
- Well, let me see if we can figure out a way to give you some data on that. Okay. So I like- In high
- school, yeah, I think the same thing. What would you use?
- If we did three classrooms, what's he going to use those for? If he did six classrooms, oh yeah. Let's
- talk to the band director when we came in, he said that that has opened up, even though it's the same
- space, it's opened up a lot more uses taking all that concrete out of there. Well, we'll come to what
- you think about this plan, but we'll gather some data that will help us to determine the specific needs
- for how much classroom space we're going to need. Find that out, and that'll be the priority. And then
- once you have that information, that'll dictate how big of a space we have for band and choir. Partially.
- Because we also have those other competing interests with the HVAC and all those other things too that
- are on the list. So there's a lot of competing interests for that.
- I think there's enough competing interests that we need to scale those back. We need to what? Scale
- those back. Yeah, okay. And make, scale what back? For instance, the performing arts, the band and choir,
- instead of being, they're being tremendously larger than they are right now, that make them larger,
- but not to that extent. And then for instance, if you did that, then on option one,
- You could put the two labs over there and then have the six classrooms there. And, you know, for the
- same dollars. That's my concern. I mean, you're adding to that space. You're going to add a whole new
- space. I don't like option one. I don't like to use option two and use that space appropriately. It
- has flexibility there.
- because we're not changing the footprint other than the inside on option two. Is it not being connected
- to our innovative learning center initiative? Option two, it would not be, correct? Right, right.
- Option two, we don't have another thumbnail hanging out there. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know that
- there'd be a huge benefit to connecting them. Are they going to be operated kind of separately and separate
- kind of thing? I don't think so.
- I don't know what you mean by separately. Well, I mean, they're separated. For the rest of the school
- can shut down. Yes. The labs could be used during the day if open. Right. So the other question is,
- are you looking to make, you want the HVAC to be more of a priority and put more money towards that?
- I'd like to go
- back there and look at some of these numbers again to figure out what we're cutting out to make that
- happen. So I'm not sure exactly. I just want some time to look at it. But I don't know that I got the
- answer. Is there a benefit to having the labs connected to the Innovative Learning Center? Would there
- be cross-use
- between those spaces to where if they were side by side, it would be more efficient than if they were
- separated by, well, you'd have to basically go out to the commons and back down or go outside to get
- there, unless you put in a separate hallway. I think to really separate programs. You already got your
- interest for the innovators that are already established.
- You don't have to change the footprint either underneath. That's another, that's a cost savings option.
- If you did option one, you got to do all the underneath stuff again too. You don't have to do it with
- option two. It's already there. There's no utilities there.
- But if you are scaling back how big this is, I'm saying scale by stress. Right. But if you go over here,
- you have to do all new infrastructure. Right, which you have to do over here too. I'm just saying take
- it from here and put it here. I mean, I don't particularly like it because I don't like the fact that
- The overhead door now would be a long way away from, or a lot longer way away at least from the auditorium.
- But I don't know that that's horrible either. So, all right. I remember.
- projects are and you start talking about the border. I mean, we couldn't spend $40 million next year
- if you wanted us to, I don't think. We've got to get it designed, we've got to get it bid, we've got
- to get started. So it might not be 2020, it might be 18 and 22. It might be a different combination.
- So we can run some cash flows so you can right size that unless there's a financial reason to borrow
- more than you need in 2026.
- which there might be, but I just offer that we can run scenarios once we have a scope of work and you
- borrow what you need and no more than you need. Exactly. That'd be perfect. I mean, I'm thinking at
- 26, we're going to have at best eight months of construction. Yeah, we're going to use the first four
- months to get the design together and the bid for the first phase of whatever we do.
- It's gonna take longer to design the new addition than it is to do the roofing project, particularly.
- Yeah. And Jerry, at some point, this has been, this last time was very good, about we need to share
- this with, we need to share the proposed additions with the public, so they see what's coming out, because
- I've been getting some calls about, well, what are they even thinking about doing? I haven't seen anything
- in concrete yet. Right. But I don't know if we're ready to do that yet. I'm sensing we need to see this.
- Oh yeah, for sure. Probably sooner rather than later. Well, we have to gather some information, like
- Dana said, kind of process what we've talked about tonight, and then come back together. Okay. And I
- think that, again, part of it was two goals. One, to figure out what we were going to do, but the other
- part was the bonding part. Right.
- There's pretty much a general consensus that forward with 40 million because it looks like we're going
- to need it. Right. How do we get that out? It just depends on the cash flows. Send us that, send us
- that graphic in the jury. If we did, I'd like to see that again. And you had it at the $6 or 6% mark.
- Everything you do is at a higher end, right?
- Yeah, so what we put in the resolution was 7%. Everything I've run from my charts is at 5%, which is
- still a percent higher. Yeah, that just helps me visualize it better. Yep, I'll get that to you.
- All right. All right. Anything else? Can I throw one more thing in? No. But school construction, so
- there's certain things that we really like to do during the summer.
- as you're deliberating and prioritizing. There are projects that we would like, like roofing. We'd rather
- do roofing as much as we can during the summer, for the shoulder months, you know. We could probably
- start the new additions about anytime. You don't like to do that in January? We could start the new
- addition about, well, let's say 10 out of 12 months, we could start the new addition. So you'd have
- a little more time to deliberate and design that. Is there kind of like a little,
- email you could send us. I'm trying not to make the decisions for you, but there are some things that
- I would recommend you get going on. If you're convinced you want to do at least some roughing, I'd love
- to pull the trigger and have Misha start putting the drawings together and do some roughing ASAP, so
- that we can bid it right at the beginning of the first few years. You want to bid the project
- when everybody's the hungriest, right? We're talking about April being the best for bleachers. We want
- to bid there somewhere in January, February,
- It's not urgent, but it's something we want. We need some decisions in the next 30 days, so maybe that
- first phase. We do need to address the bleachers. That's also more urgent priorities. You mean the one
- in April? Well, junior high and high school. Okay, but those are coming from previous bonds.
- Right now, I have the high school bleachers coming out of the geo-bond. Which geo-bond? The new one?
- The 2022 geo-bond. So those are out of the existing one? And the junior high bleachers coming out of
- the 2010 construction. Right. I mean, in all seriousness, we find out the price difference. Well, but
- the other thing, too, you've got to think about is,
- You need the bleachers for the basketball season. And so kind of stuck in waiting until after the program
- basketball season. What's that? We do have a meeting with Lee and company this week regarding the high school.
- I've seen about the high school. It gets three sets of bleachers. You got two bottom, all the bottom
- and that top on the other side. I forgot about that. Is that what we're talking about? Is that just
- getting a price or bidding or doing or what? Quoting. Quoting. Quoting. Quoting. Quoting. Quoting. Quoting.
- Quoting. Quoting. Quoting. Quoting. Quoting.
- project and then broke down by individual levels. But yeah, Brad's point. Are we talking about both
- the bottoms and one of the tops? One top's permanent concrete. So on the permanent side, we're going
- to take a look and see if we can, what's it called? Recap. Recap the seats. Didn't we recap them? We
- had them five years ago. They've been recapped. They had been recapped. They were wood. Five years ago?
- No, four years ago.
- Okay. Really? I've only been here three. I don't know. I remember when they were wood, but that might
- have been 1980. I remember 1965. We're going to take a look at all of it. We're going to take a look
- at all of it, but the priority are the movable. Okay, gotcha.
- All right, anything else? No. I'm ready to go home. All right, leaving adjourned.