Okay, well, this is our first time having a work session recorded and we'll thank CATS for being here
tonight to do that. This is a work session to really take a look at potential construction projects
and also to talk about bonding and the implication,
implementations about that. Still don't think I got that right. And so I'd like to thank Misha from
Lancer and Victor and Martin from Skillman and Matt from Stiefel for being here tonight. And first of
all, we're going to go through a PowerPoint presentation
that will explain further some of the projects and also look at some budgetary items. And then I put
together a recommendation and nothing's written in stone on that recommendation. It was really just
to kind of say, here's my idea of where we can go and where we could take
different projects out of. We have two general obligation bonds that have funds available to us and
we also have some past construction bond funds that we could take a look at and see what projects we
want to take from them and so
Like to just hope we can get be productive in our conversations and and clearly I'm talking to myself
and not go to down to too many rabbit holes, but kind of a try to my goal tonight would be to hopefully
for the for the board.
provide some guidance and direction in general, and nothing will be voted on tonight, but just give
us a roadmap of where we go from here. So I'm gonna turn it over to Misha first.
We'll get started. Okay, well thank you so much, Misha, with Lancer Associates. Thank you so much for
having us back. So I'll go through a few visuals of what some of the additions and projects might look
like or where they might be located on the campus map. Please feel free to stop me at any point in time
and ask questions and it should be a conversational part. So we will start with a high school
And I do have two different options for this piece, and it's mainly deals with the biomedical labs.
So what we are looking at is really an addition right over there next to the existing band and choir
area. So this is in lighter pink. And then we're looking at a larger addition of the band and choir
that's going to be on the east side of the building. So that's choir, larger area,
There was also opportunity to put a kind of a second story observation deck and practice rooms and storage
rooms up there. We also have some offices, storage rooms, also an assembly room there. And then just
keeping a corridor as a connection between the existing building and the new part.
In terms of the existing band and choir room, we're looking at potentially adding six more classrooms
into the building. So that's going to be different in option two. And then building out the new biomedical
labs over in this area here. So those will be kind of larger and they really can be designed to do anything
that you would want.
Oh, I thought there was a question. I was seeing where the end of the building is. Yes, so yeah, the
existing end of the building is right over in this area. So anything in the darker red is really building
addition. So I was trying to visualize the biomedical lab where that would cut off and I can kind of see.
kind of cutting into that parking lots. And then also part of the project is going to be an additional
parking in the front area, kind of where that grassy area is, and also a much larger added parking on
the west side of the building where we added some parking and then kind of expanding that parking even
further. When you say out front, you're adding tension,
I know we would be losing some up front. Is that what you're? No, I think it's kind of also part is
that there's probably going to be a underground detention there. So just for cost reasons. So that's
skill and had it in there or to kind of account for that as so that there wouldn't be hopefully too
many surprises once construction starts in the drainage on the front. I know we had talked about that.
Yes. So kind of taking that soil that's there and
trying to redirect it further down that way. And we'll also kind of look into reconfiguring the existing
drive there as we will be taking out some of the parking areas in the front of the building. So kind
of keeping the existing kind of where the flat pole is and kind of all that landscape area, but redirecting
the traffic a little bit so that you have that drop off area right in front of the front door.
Then option two is really taking out that addition of biomedical labs and instead renovating the existing
band and choir rooms to be lab spaces themselves. And in that we are only providing only three additional
classrooms for the high school to be able to use. And these labs are a little bit smaller just so that
we can fit within the existing footprints.
That is the main difference between option one and two. Heavy renovation. Yes, it will be a heavy renovation.
Well, yeah, we'll clean it out. The mandrel looks a lot bigger already with all those steps out there.
Well, but they're taking the current band inquirer and making that to biomedical labs and three additional
classrooms.
Perfect. I kind of like that idea. There's cost difference too. Oh, definitely, yes. And then we also
will try to make sure that we are keeping the existing structure in place. There are some load-bearing
walls, so we will keep those intact. So what are the current band and choir square footages compared
to what they're going to?
They are, I believe the band is about 1,400, 1,500. What we're looking at is what band room is about
4,000. So we are tripling the size. Well, really for both band and choir. I think it's actually more
than that. Well, band will be able to fit
It's not going to have a basketball court, but it will have enough space for a basketball court inside
of it just because of what they do in terms of practice and kind of the space allocations and mats that
they use there. So the A team, A is combined. Yes. Yeah, that's correct. That's whole. And whatever
is going to be having over like over two story type. Yes. The band or the choir, I don't remember. Both of them.
Oh, really? Yes. Once we go up might as well use that circulation that way. It seems humongous. It's
much bigger, but it is what a lot of high schools are
looking towards. It's roughly the size of your band and choir combined. Right. The band location. Yes.
What's the square footage of the activity center? The new activity center in fact, what's the square
footage? Oh, I wish you hadn't asked me that. If you could give me a second, I can... That's of course
what? It's not that big.
It's smaller than the band and choir edition. It's less than 18,000. Right. It's probably. It is less.
Yes. And it's also. That's the visuals. A shell. Huh? It's also a shell as compared to as far as possible.
Correct. Correct. You're talking about the new. The new activity center. Activity center. It's a field
house. What's the official term? I thought you were going to call it activity center. Field house. I
think it's field house.
We vote on that? We did not. Okay. The signage has come in his field house. Anybody could use it though,
as of right now. Oh yeah. If we decide not to do a band inquiry. Right. And Aaron will tell you that
this isn't big enough. Right.
That's what I was like. I was almost on time, but he comes inside. I really, yeah, I don't really care
what he tells me. I think there are a few barriers of this size around South Central and South Central
Indiana. Well, like Seymour May School, I guess they're one the bigger than us. But to give you an example,
you're not out ahead of anybody too much for this.
if we got a certain amount of money. What's that? Yeah. Do apologize. Actually, the activity center
is larger. It's 23,000. Yes. 23,000 for the activity center. Is that right there in the back? No. No,
sorry, the field house. Let's get the ones right. We haven't got the money yet. No.
Should we move on to athletics? So what we're looking at are renovations to both the baseball and softball
fields. So there's a little bit less work at the existing
baseball field, so we will turf the field itself, create a new bullpen for both visitors and the home
team, as well as there's a little bit of a great work that we heard that we need to do in terms of raising
parts of the field. Then moving south, we're looking at
Paving that existing gravel drive so that you got a nicer entrance there. Possibly putting a new restroom
concessions building right at the entrance so that you can also create ticketing there and kind of into
that area. Possibly creating a new pole barn that you can use for both storage and just quick, really
changing rooms for visiting teams.
And then for the field itself, we were looking to turf it, new backstops, new sound system, new press
box, as well as creating a new concrete walkway all the way around it to connect both to the restrooms
and to the existing concessions building.
Yes. It's just a walkway. Where's the press box? The new press boxes. Oh, I've got home plate. Okay.
So that little existing building staying out there. Yes. We got to do some of that, right? Revamp it or?
We definitely can repaint it and things. It's still solubility. Yeah. I think that's also where your
head end for all the athletic lights is. Notice the fields are red. That's just diagrammatic for now.
We can talk about colors in a later stage. Wrong day to say that.
Okay, and then the last kind of major kind of additions or innovation portion that I'll be sharing is
the junior high school. So in the back of that, the newest addition of the building, we're looking at
providing the new band and choir rooms there. And as well as kind of enough classroom space and practice
rooms around, that's kind of the main
comment that we got from when we met with the teachers that they needed classroom space in between the
two. We'll also have dedicated choir storage with an overhead door there that they use. Also, we will
be providing a new set of restrooms on that side of the building just because it seems that the existing
activity or multipurpose room doesn't have access to them right now.
One of the things we saw earlier was the storage in the hallway. Is that still part of this? It's kind
of in a hallway. It's more inside of the band room. We'll still have some of that musical locker rooms
there. And then we're still preserving the access into the kitchen there.
outdoor space for the cafeteria is still gonna be preserved, might be closed during construction just
because of proximity. And then the other item is that there's a potential to renovate existing band
and choir rooms to get you to five classrooms there as well as some offices and small group instruction
over in this area there. These classrooms are
kind of similar to what you currently have, which is, I would say is on the smaller side generally,
kind of what we typically see in education facilities. But again, we are trying to fit within the confines
of load bearing walls and making sure that we're not compromising the structure there. And then you
can see kind of this area here is just kind of rewiring the data for the existing, from the new
IDF closets in there. The white part is the new gym, right? Yes. This is different. This is different
than what we talked about. I thought we talked about leaving the band and choir up to top and doing
something, expanding it out. That was one of the things that was discussed. Yeah, turn this in the classroom
down here so we're not. I didn't think we ended up that way.
Well, I thought after listening to the band inquire teachers, they were talking about some alternatives
they could do if they liked better. Well, we expanded, we listened to them. They wanted a little bit
bigger space. So we made some adjustments to the original plan in terms of extending that expansion
area out a little bit further. We changed the,
Storage for the band equipment. What else? We added a lot of practice rooms, a lot of offices, things
like that. Just don't believe that you'll get to a good result renovating existing space just because
of the height needed in that space. And overall, you'll get a better product with Ben and Choir moving
into the new position.
square footages, that's exactly what we're giving up at band inquire, giving up 6,800 to get 11,000,
does that sound right? Yes. Okay. You talked to band inquire about this, so they've seen this already.
Oh yeah, they saw it, the original, and then we made those adjustments based on what they said. The
high school's seen this too. Mm-hmm.
So Victor, Martin, you want to kind of go through the estimates? I'll start when I get in trouble and
ask Martin to help me. We really have three.
Four pages of estimates here. We've got, so you have to bear with this, some of them were kind of came
together here pretty recently. But this first page starts out with the two different options for the
high school. We just collected everything together so that you could look at option one or option two
and it included both the renovations, the additions and the parking lots. You see the individual costs
listed there. If you were to choose to move only partial of each option,
The big difference between option one and two, of course, is the fact that option one has the actual
biomedical as a lab addition. So essentially, you're almost $3.6 million because you're adding on and
still renovating the existing space. So there's a minor difference between renovating it in the general
classrooms versus renovating the biomedical.
So that's the two differences between those two options. The next line item there is the baseball softball
field renovations that Misha described there. Those are all in, all the information that he described,
the buildings, the facility updates are included in each one of those projects for a total of $5.7 million there.
And then the additions and renovations to the junior high are sub-totaled there. The big part being
the performing arts addition, as well as the renovation of the old area into, and I say classrooms,
but all the spaces that Misha described there in his design are captured in each of these. So primarily
classrooms, but restrooms, et cetera, are incorporated in each of the designs.
So we just gave you a grand total of option one and option two, just to give you an order of magnitude
for all that work. But that's not the only work that we're talking about tonight. So I'll pause there
in case you have any questions regarding those estimates. So on the baseball, softball fields, the $2
million discrepancy is because of the outbuildings. Those are two million dollars worth of outbuildings.
Baseball fields are massive. So the softball field is 3.8.
Baseball's $1.9 million. That's $2 million. You've got structures. You've got lockers and toilet rooms,
toilet room concessions. Two-story press box, restroom concession building. Those are the big differences.
$2 million, so that's a lot of money. Whole barn? Yes, sir. Those buildings are always expensive because
you've still got all the utilities you've got to get to.
Yes, sir. But did you explain construction soft costs? We'll make it up on the softball.
Sure, you're right, right. It does seem like a monster difference. I mean, I was looking at the difference
in the two. Yes, sir. And remember, these are projected costs. Oh, I know. When we go out and we bid
all this, that's the actual number. That's such a lot. Yeah, but combined, it's spending $18 billion
on four lignards. That's a lot. Four page on.
I'm looking at the project cost totals on the first page of it. It's got performing arts edition 11.5
million and 6.5 million, but basically for the junior high, that's $18 million. And in spending that,
we're getting
total of five classrooms at the junior high and anywhere between three and six at the high school. So
as far as capacity for educational space, we're not growing much at all.
when we're spending almost half of what we're talking about for performing arts. I just have a problem
with that. Okay, tell me where the 18 million is. I don't see where the 18 million is. To the first
page that has the... Performing Arts Commission. 11.4. That one there is for the high school. Six here.
And then this down here.
is for the junior high school. Because there wasn't an 18 million on here. It's got to add up. Yeah,
you got to add the two million. It doesn't matter if you pick up from one or two. It doesn't matter.
It's the same amount. I don't know. That's hard for me to take. We're talking about classroom issues
and space and where we're headed.
doesn't look like we're doing much to try to do that. I think we also have a ways to go with performing
arts. I do too, but I don't know that tripling, quadrupling, the size is something that we can afford
to do. I mean, yeah, we've got a good program, but they've been able to have a really good program in
the space they got, give them twice the space, and they're going to have
a lot more space to do what they're doing. You know what I mean? I just, sure. It just seems like putting
a lot into it. Sure. One thing that I think we've always been very good at is basing our plans and what
we do with our facilities on needs and we definitely reached out to, and I've
Sometimes in the past we've been criticized for not having enough conversations with the people who
use those facilities. And so we've had those conversations, a number of them with both high school and
junior high performing arts folks. And basically this is what they say that they need. So that's kind
of where this is coming from. No one has gone in and said,
Okay, here's what you need, but we're gonna make it even bigger than you want. I get that, but I get
what they want. But I'm also trying to think of what can we share a word with all of our others. I mean,
I like the plans because it really captures both. It gives us some additional classroom space and also
to really take care of performing arts that we really haven't.
since we remodeled the auditorium, really haven't addressed that too much. But just something, I'm just
giving some thought back. Yes. Those two labs, those two lab spaces are actually classrooms during the
day too. Those could be during the day, the biomedical training will be during the day.
If we're doing this, we get the half a million dollar grant, right? No, we're doing this to provide.
That's part of it. We have a requirement to do that. To spend two million as far as getting. Yeah, which
we did by doing this. Right. But those spaces could be used otherwise in the future if that program
dissipated. It's still a good use of spaces. Yeah, but I mean, I don't really like that approach to
it because. I know, I'm just taking,
down the road, 20 years from now, who knows what the pathways will be. It's still a useful space either
way. I don't know how, I mean, what I'm envisioning, I don't know how useful those would be as classroom
space is still gonna be as they're set up with the lab though. One of the labs,
That's where I was encouraged when we visited Boston Scientific and we visited Cook Medical is basically
they were shells. They were just a large room that looked like a classroom. Now on the second training
lab, we're going to try to put some mock hospital rooms in there.
but all the equipment stuff should be movable. Yeah, be a bed, just anything that's attached to the
wall. Yeah, but you can work around that. Right. And I know this is way out of the road to you, that
we might be able to pull, for funding, pull kids from the air, Hoosier Hills, to use that lab during
the day when we get
Yeah, we wouldn't pull them from Hoosier Hills, but we are actually, in our conversation with Boston
Scientific, to the point where we're going to include a Spencer Owens superintendent. So... Right. With
options, you're getting eight classrooms.
like for 3.75 billion dollars a classroom. I mean, that's, you're only getting eight classrooms for
30 million dollars. That's, I don't know. I mean, and I'm a performing arts person. I get that,
but it's, I just, I'm just having trouble with the cost of these things to think that we can,
afford to go that far. Okay, you want to keep going? Yeah, keep going. We're just learning, we're digesting.
We're just having a conversation, yeah. The next page is some costs that we really kind of work jointly
with the school district
in terms of roof replacement and pavement. And we've got a lot of roofs in the district and this lists
different components of the high school, the junior high, intermediate, primary school. We broke out
the membrane roof from the metal roofs at the intermediate and primary school. So that $10 million represents
pretty much all the membrane roof on this campus.
I don't know if you call this campus or not, but those four buildings. Then we've got another number
down here. This came from, I think, one of the local contractors to do a roof over top of the standing
scene. Martin and I think that's a healthy number. So there might be some work we can do on that one,
but just didn't want to, we haven't done any analysis on that.
I might just claim that that's somebody else's number. Is the standing scene groups failing? That's
why Arnold's here. Huh? That's why Arnold's here. I talked to him. I talked to him. The standing scene
groups, are they an issue at EIS and ETS? They're not as bad as the flat you were talking about. You
want to get another 20-year done and get it done.
There will last another 20, and that's going to be the way out right now. And I think. With this money,
you're looking for 20-year plans. And Arnold, you and I had the conversation, too. We feel like that
number, particularly this standing seam, has probably got it from a contractor, but we think it's pretty
high on that. We did. And I believe there's probably other avenues to address that situation as well,
as opposed to what you just said.
I hesitate because it's not my number, right? So it could be high, it could be low. So I'm just saying
there might be some other options that we could explore to look at that. And I think, Victor,
we at Skillman, we've got the breakdown of what the contractor's intending to do. So I think we could probably,
Put a pencil to it. Am I correct? That's not a replacement of the metal, one for one metal. It's actually
an overlay with a membrane on top of the metal. Is that correct? Yeah. Which we've done several times.
Normally, that's less expensive than the original metal. So that's why we think it's a little heavy.
My immediate reaction to those numbers. You understand that? You're never upset when the numbers go
down. You're just upset when the numbers go up. I wonder how that would look to them.
Actually, it's surprising, you probably wouldn't know, because they weld on a kind of a rubber seam
to make it look like the original metal. So it's a nice roof system, but it will replicate that appearance.
The projects in Carvel that we did over the last 10 years, it's really a pretty good solution. So yeah,
and as Jerry said, we kind of were bringing these together
even today, so I think we could take a look at that, particularly the standing scene numbers,
a little harder. So just for the board's information, then the paving repairs, I think another thing
that Arnold put some work into, so I got a lot of asphalt around the district. We captured this by line
item in $1.4 million, so you can do a lot of asphalt work for $1.4 million.
Parking lots all over. So that's that page, just for the board's information. The next page is some
specific mechanical projects. The temperature control system at the high school is, I believe, kind
of end of life.
Pretty critical infrastructure for the building. The engineer's estimate, this is some work that CEC
did for the district, is a million dollars. That's, as you can imagine, that's rounded to the nearest
10,000, I would guess. But that doesn't surprise me for a comprehensive replacement. That wouldn't just
be the electronics, that would be new valves and the full redo.
The next item is the boilers. We've got four boilers there. That'd be replacement of the boilers, controls,
and the pumps. And then at the junior high, similar, you have three boilers. And those are high efficiency
boilers, controls, and replacement of the pumps. So that will all work. We put a general number of 20%
on these last two pages. It's possible that we could do that for less than 20% saw cost.
rather start out there and work our way down. Inevitably, we run into something that we have to do that
has nothing to do with boilers in order to do boilers. So I'd like to start out with a number that's
conservative and then work our way down from there. So that adds up to 2.4. And then the last page is
just simply a series of totals for your information. Again, it's basically
range of 50 to 53 and a half million. Okay, let's move to this document here. So obviously it's the
common problem that we always have is more projects than we have money. So my intent here with this
recommendation
package is basically to give you an idea of where we are on some of our current geo bonds and older
construction bonds and also to be able to take some of the needs that we have and find a home for them,
places where we could potentially use some of our funds that we have existing
the funds that we're getting ready to bond to meet as many needs as possible in the school corporation.
And so we have two geo bonds that are open right now, geo bonds from 2022 and 24. The 22 bonds currently
has a little over 3.6 million left in it. And the list of the
the projects that when Matt was here, Matt kept a list of the potential projects that we could take
from this geobond. I adjusted that list and I adjusted the amounts from that. Some of the important
items on here, we are looking at the high school bleachers.
I know that's a really high amount. It more than likely would not go that high, but our bleachers at
the high score are old and they're not ADA compliant. What's that? Right. Right. We already approved
the two school buses on there. That money's encumbered.
They've already been ordered. You see classroom furniture on there. That's taking care of funding the
furniture for some of the projects that we've been working on now in addition to some additional classroom
furniture. That's what
That's for the geo bonds for 2024 are mainly technology related for replacing student devices, replacing
staff computers and laptops and other items related to technology. Some of that's already covered. Out
of that, the entity covered, the mouse not on there then?
It's being spent currently. So this has already been accounted for? This is what Matt and I came up
with as the amount that we've received as a bond. And all the new computers came out of that 1.3? No.
Well, they will. We've only spent $400,000 so far. This is a budget. I understand. How much of that's
already been in cover is my question. We've already ordered it. Probably right now, student devices
is probably about $400,000 maybe. OK. And the whole amount of the two buses is already, the full amount's in cover.
Yes. The construction bonds, we have one sold as 2010 with $206,2773 in change. The bleachers at the
junior high definitely need replaced. We need to find someplace to replace those bleachers. We need
to find the funds. Right now, they're currently out.
They cannot be pushed back. They're out until we replace them. So they're just beyond life on that.
That's the bid to replace them or is that just an estimate? No, that's a quote. I thought it said 70
cents that it was worth it. That's an actual quote from the company. Okay.
Is that always just on one side of it? Right. Right. There's no nothing. There's no upstairs. And for
gym class, they need those push back. That would be helpful. I think we ought to start spending that.
Well, we're ready to go, but we really need to wait until April.
because we get a better deal. April is apparently the ideal month that they don't have a lot of business.
Everybody wants to do it during the summer, so if we do it during April, we'll save a lot of money for
doing that. That's where the blades yourselves at. So is this the April price? What's that? Is this
an April price, or is it gonna be lower? This is the April price.
2019 bonds. What's the September price? Do we know how much more though, seriously? Well, I didn't get
to quote on September. We got the best, we got a pretty good deal, I understand. And the cheapest month
is to do it as in April. I don't know how much more. It would be nice to know the difference
because we've earned that much an interest. Right, yeah, we could do that. I mean, I'm just thinking
outside. There's a $10,000 difference, one thing, and it's $100,000 difference. We just have a lot of
needs, so. I understand, I understand. 2019, that's pretty much, we have a mediation, we have an issue
with the contractor over concrete redo and the dining area behind the junior high, and we have a mediation
coming up here in a couple weeks.
So that money's just on hold until we see what comes out of that deal. That back wall at the junior
high that we voted to do behind the bleachers, is it there? The back wall. There was like an extra area
that they John or they wanted for an in-school suspension? Yes. Is that completed? Yes. Okay.
2020 bonds are a little over 63,000 left in that. The only thing left to come out of that would be coming
up with some graphics to put in here and not in the hallway. It would not come up to 63,000, so don't
get worried about that. That was a really big picture. Yeah, right. It's just that we don't have anything
else planned for that.
that right now, other than the graphics for the boardroom and in the hallway. If we had to throw a little
bit of that towards the EJHS bleachers, that would be the end of the world. The 2023 construction bonds,
that's what we're working out of right now. And that's two and a half million left. And I don't know,
Martin, if you want to say where we are with the current
and what's coming out of there yet to come, or? No. I guess I'm not. The activity center slash field
house. So this is the bomb project for the EEC and the field. You're right, so. We're nearing probably
mid-October. So we've got 2.5 million current balance. When is that going to get us to the end? We have
allowances in there. You'll probably get money back. So we should have some left over, hopefully. Yeah.
Cafeteria in good shape? Cafeteria is, what we'll do is a cafeteria, throw me there for a second. The
kitchen equipment's coming in the next couple of weeks.
what we will, Dirk wanted for the Hill 800, we won't be quite ready for the Hill 800, although it'll
be done and ready to move into. Then when we turn over the existing kitchen, we will take over the old
kitchen and do demo. So that's when the rest of the cafeteria part will be completed. So that, we'll
turn over the,
The new kitchen, you move into it and then probably in November we'll finish it out and then you get
the rest of the cafeteria area will be done at that time. The month would be? In November. In November,
okay. Yeah, we're really hoping to be done, done and punched out first of December. Okay.
Jerry, remind me about the safe walkway between the junior high and high school. That's on the list
of things to do. That's not part of this. That's not part of the 2024? No. So I haven't seen that anywhere,
or have I missed it? Well, it's baked into. Oh, I see the pathway. Yeah, I see it. Yeah. I mean, we
did an estimate. I think Jerry pulled it out and put it on the line item. The 282. Yeah. OK.
But that will have nothing to do with that between the softball fields and behind the football field.
We're not doing anything back here. Not as part of this. It's going to be along, no, the pathway is
going to be along the football field baseball deck. And it makes sense. Logistically, it makes sense
there. Mask it. In terms of? It looks like it to me.
Yeah, I don't think you want. We won't have people parking anymore. You don't want students walking
through the football complex. But I just, we don't want, we want to make sure kids are on the pathway,
not out there in the road. Right. We included a fence with the sidewalk. Right. So there'll be fences
on both sides of the sidewalk? Yes. Correct. Well met and everything else. So you'll get lights in your
backyard with the truck.
So for the projects that we're bonding now for that we've advertised, the last two pages kind of give
you an indication of what I'm suggesting we take out of this next round of bonds. And the last page
kind of gives you an idea of
of all the items that we advertised where we would be taking the funds out of to do those projects.
So going over the page on page three, I recommended we do option two. And you'll notice that the projected
cost that I put in there is 500,000 less than what
as Skillman suggested, but that's accounting for the 500,000 we're gonna get from the Ready 2.0 funds.
Yeah, for sure. That money's sitting somewhere. We will be getting that, yes. We don't have it yet.
And it doesn't have to be shown, it has to be used for certain things? It has to be for brick and mortar.
Brick and mortar, okay, perfect. And it has to be spent by December, 2028.
And then I added the softball and baseball turf in there. Now, you know, people are always asking. And
so the athletic director would like us all to also to do soccer and suggested that other school corporations
that did baseball and softball also did soccer and then got a better price.
I don't think we're ready to do that. So I just kept it at baseball and softball turf, plus the renovations
to the softball field. So that figure is exactly what Skillman is recommending. And then I included
the high school roof in that. I included the asphalt. Now I didn't include the price for Edgewood Drive
in there. Like I said, I was trying to look for ways
not spend as much money, so I just wanted to make a note of that. The pathway between the junior high
and high schools included in here. We went up and took a look at the tennis court area, and our hope
was to totally replace everything, repave it, new fencing,
new lighting, sidewalks around, concrete around the perimeter. So there would be a place for people
to sit and watch the tennis matches. We really, we haven't really been able to have somebody give us
a specific quote on that.
We didn't have time to do all that. We did get some numbers from MCC who is in the process of replacing
their tennis courts and they estimated 200,000 per court and that didn't include fencing and lighting
and all that. So this is just repairing the,
cracks. Right, so this would buy us a few more years. Yes. I put I put 800,000 nothing here is written
in stone, by the way.
This is just for something for us to start talking about. But I put $800,000 in there mainly to take
care of the boilers that we need to replace. We probably need some additional funds for that. The controls,
I was hoping, and I talked to the guy that we talked to about Gabe. What's Gabe's last name?
What's that? Yeah. And I asked him if we could possibly push out the controls to 2027 and he thought
we could piecemeal it to get there. Now, I am not an expert in any way on HVAC, but
my own personal opinion, it just feels like an endless pit. Because I'll be honest with you, as I took
over some of these things for Matt and I watched Matt last year and watched Arnold, I've just seen him
running around here like their heads are cut off.
even after we spent a lot of money. And so starting the school year, we had some issues at the high
school. We had some issues at the elementary school. And so we had a meeting with Johnson Control and
Gabe. And I wanted to learn from that conversation, you know, why is that? And I did discover that it
was my assumption when we were
spending this money on HVAC that we were replacing the whole systems and we were not. We were just replacing
pieces that were broken. And that's been a philosophy of the school corporation for a number of years.
So where we are right now is that we have brand new equipment that's trying to talk with equipment that's
20, 25 years old.
And that's why we constantly are having issues because we need to have folks like Johnson Control come
in and try to get these different versions working and talking together again. I really think we need
to develop a long-term plan with HVAC that's going to be very expensive down the road.
We don't have that right now. We're trying to put that plan together. But down the road, I just think
that if we just keep piecemealing things, we're going to continue to have problems. So I kind of put
some money in here to take care of the most immediate needs and put HVAC on there for 2027.
So by then we'll have a more established plan of where we need to go with HVAC. In my ears on the board,
it seems like we replace borrowers almost every other year. It's a borrower going somewhere. The Boys
and Girls Club, we accounted for a lot of money out there. Is it completed yet? It's completed,
but we... I mean, we spent a ton of money. Yeah, it's completed, but there continue to be issues.
Is it because of the supplier or the installer? The word I got really today was that really they used
a more cheaper version of what they should have done. And so we're going to be taking a look at using
our warranty to get what they put in replaced. We haven't had it a year yet.
Right. Arnold, do you have anything to add to that? They just continue to fail. But it didn't even get
done. Oh yeah, it's done.
Cause I saw him out there all summer working at different, where the contractors were. I mean, anybody
here that has more knowledge about HVAC than I do, but it is very complicated area. So for me, the novice,
we spent a lot of money, why is it just working? But it sounds like that today's equipment is what there's
a lot more technology involved. And so,
It's very sensitive, I guess. Globally, we have seen more and more poor quality manufactured products
show up, missing parts, errors in the construction. Just right from the factory installed with problems
that have to be then repaired on warranty. That has become
more common than it should be. A lot of assembly issues. The second piece is that as they've been trying
to drive efficiency for energy efficiency, they're getting more and more sensitive, more and more computer
based, more and more, just everything has to work perfectly in order for it to work at all kind of a
situation. And as they've driven this higher technology for higher performance,
the life cycle's gotten shorter. I mean, this phone's two years old. I mean, it's the same kind of situation
where the technology has a shorter life cycle. So mechanical equipment, it used to have a big boiler
that lasts for 40, 50 years, made out of cast iron, had a burner and it hooked it up to the gas. Now
it's very high performance, high and made out of very thin sheet metal. And then I guess the fourth
component is we have a shrinking
workforce of the technology and the quality that understands how to install and maintain and repair
these systems. So we have a lot of things working against us. And so you're not alone if that makes
you feel any better in terms of the kind of experiences that we're having across the board in the industry.
Not to mention, I'm sure you have existing buildings that are a little over.
I don't mean to be Debbie Downer, just the reality. You're not gonna invite me back, are you?
Thanks a lot. Okay, so moving forward for the junior high, this would be exactly as Misha described
the project for 6.6 million. The roof,
for the junior high and also asphalt around the junior high and the parking lots. And then EPS and EIS
includes a roofing for that and also asphalt. Now we were out there today looking at a possible solution
of what we could do with the traffic on Reeves Road.
in terms of getting some of that traffic off of Rees Road and he was an engineer, right? Civil engineer.
Civil engineer that he's gonna look at two or three different options of what we could do to try to
address that need. So we may need to look for, if we wanna take care of that,
Sooner we'll need to find some funds. If not, we'll put that off to later bonding time. And then on
page four at the bottom are just some projects that have been mentioned through all these conversations
to get to the point we are today. These are just some additional projects that have been mentioned.
to me that I just want to put them on the list as future projects, which would be HVAC work. We really
wanted to get a new technology office and storage room, but I just don't see how we can do that right
now. Oh, this renovating old band and choir rooms to gain additional classrooms.
I should have taken that off. On the last page at the bottom. So you don't have that. Let me. That's
not part of no, no, this is just this is just be down the road so that the band current band choir would
mean as they are. They can manipulate them to use them as they need to school.
Yeah, let me let me explain it first. So one of the things I was trying to do to save money looking
at the junior high was to just do the expansion, the band and choir room expansion and leave the old
band and choir area as is. And I was talking to Kent Rensselaer about can we move some programs
into those spaces without renovating them. And his response was it really wouldn't gain us maybe one
classroom. And plus he's talking about some additional and he's trying to think ahead in terms of there's
a large journeys classroom that
that they may eventually inherit those kids and have to have a space available to them. So my original
idea to try to reduce that figure that we had for the junior high, according to the principal, that
wouldn't work. So I went ahead and
and put the full amount in there. And then I forgot and I put that here on the list of future projects.
So that really could be crossed out there. That's not part of the 2025. Right, right. Tennis
court replacement. Like I said, when we met with the principal, high school principal and a high school
athletic director, they also talked about needs down at the soccer field.
in terms of turf and also having concession and storage area down there. Parking around campus, mowing
equipment and just additional items. That's just a very fluid list. We really don't need to spend a
lot of time on. So if you look at that table on page four, I put in red those projects that we advertised that
We don't have to do this all once, and I'm not nearly closely suggesting we do all this all at once,
but we can address all these areas if we so wanted to. And then if the board would say, yeah, that sounds
like a good idea, then we'll work with Skillman to kind of map out, okay, what projects does it make
sense to connect
like we included the field house and the preschool together so that we can save some money on having
the construction companies here. And that really would prove to be very beneficial because to get the
preschool done, we pulled some people from,
We, Martin and his team, pulled some people from the field house to get the preschool done. So it does
help us with cost. It helps with being able to adjust how the projects are going. And so I just wanted
to show you that we could, if we wanted to, address almost all of the projects that we advertised. Now,
this would involve bonding, getting all 40 million
upfront, which would be my recommendation because it does give us that money at one time. It enables
us to be able to react to maybe some anticipated issues that might come up that we would have all those
funds available. Plus, we would be able to gain some
money from interest rates and I have oh yeah I have here we've I mean if you wanted to know Debbie gave
me some figures today on the different funds that we have in the interest the interest that we've gained
from that and so yes I don't have a copy right now but I'll make copies so
Matt, do you want to add, have you listened to some things in terms of how this would impact us? I think
from my point of view, it's kind of the same that it's been the last few times that we've talked.
I mean, we've been looking at this 40 million structured in a way that you can come back in a couple
years and potentially borrow more money to address some of these other needs that
Dr. Sanders has talked about in the future. I will say, you know, if you borrow the full 40 million
now, looking ahead, you know, remaining capacity is somewhere in the 30 to 35 million dollars, depending
on where interest rates are. That assumption is that you keep your debt service levy constant. Levy
being the number of dollars that you're asking for from taxpayers.
I will say that I think that that's probably going to be difficult to maintain in perpetuity in terms
of everything costs more in the future. And so keeping a levy constant for 20 years I think might be
difficult, but that's kind of how we've run it now. And so as you guys have more conversations and want
to look at something perhaps differently or just different scenarios, we can certainly do that.
But yeah, I mean the 40 million can be borrowed without increasing the levy and still retain capacity
in the future. It's just that you prioritize some of these projects, so you're able to do everything
that you want to do under kind of these constraints. How do you define future? How many years? So the
way we have it set up right now. Yeah, I don't know if we should look at that again or not.
Yeah, the way we have it set up now is that you could come back in 27 and do additional projects. But
that is totally fluid and up to you. That's just kind of the way that we've run it. As of now, if you
come back and say we need to do more next year, then we can structure it that way. And our tax rate
can remain level or drop a bit. We have no control over the tax rate anymore because of what the assessed
value is likely to do. So we're talking about the dollars. What we're likely to see over the next five years
is if you ask for the same dollars in your debt service fund each and every year, I would expect the
tax rate to be higher at the end of that five years. Now it may not be each and every year. Your assessed
value went up half a percent, half a percent this year. And so if you keep your debt service levy level
from 25 to 26, your tax rate's gonna go from $1.03 to $1.04.
It's going to go up because you're taking new money and operations. That's where they give you the growth
quotient of four percent. So the total levy is going up, but it has nothing to do with these projects.
It's solely from the operations fund. And so if we see an assessed value that doesn't grow or potentially
goes down,
even if you're asking for the same dollars, that tax rate is gonna go higher. And I think that is gonna
be the difficult thing and I'm still having to wrap my head around it. We've had the Senate bill run
for five months. We've been talking about tax rate for five or six years and you guys have hit the tax
rate each and every year and now the way they're changing the math is you don't really have any control
over that. So now we're looking at the dollars that you're asking for and so the assumption is that
would be flat line moving forward.
At this current time, as we run some of these projections in terms of how much. Taxpayer there says
value may drop, but their tax rate, but their total tax dollars would be very comfortable is my point.
That's what I'm 100%. I mean, that's kind of, we've worked at the other way before. If you ask for the
same dollars.
from this year to next year, the assessed value almost doesn't matter. It could go down 50%. Your tax
rate is going to go higher to generate the same dollars. Correct. So their tax bill that they get twice
a year is going to look very comparable. 100%. The portion of the tax bill that they get
the only increase that they may see is because of the operations fund. They will not see an increase
at all because of this project, because we're leveling out that debt service leverage, yes. So it's
gonna be the interplay between the assessed value and the tax rate. That's gonna be jumping around each
and every year, so I think we're gonna see some wonky results, but now we're talking about the dollars
asked for. So what we just paid November's gonna be paid?
Our goal is going to be common. We're going to work it back. At some point in the future
It is my expectation that levies are gonna have to start growing again a little bit. Now, is that the
cost of inflation? I don't know. Right, I get that. You're doing this project in 2025, and Victor prices
it for this same project in 2035. That's where it's gonna be hard, I think, to hold that levy constant
forever. But certainly we can do it through this project and through the near future. And if the taxes
change, it's not...
it's gonna be because of the school. It's gonna be a thousand Elksfield annex and they're gonna be paying
more Elksfield. Or like the fire department, that could affect everybody too. But if we're positive,
if we're optimistic and think that the ADA here is going to continue to grow. Even if it doesn't. Or
half a percent. Right. If the tax rate goes up a little, like two cents, it's still gonna bounce up
to the same dollar.
Yes. And it's a good distinction, too. So I want to make this clear. Try to explain that to taxpayers.
Of course. The tax liability that the taxpayer pays for the school corporation is going to be comparable.
Now, is the total tax bill going to potentially, but your portion that you're responsible for?
We can control, correct. Yes. Yes.
which is different than we've been doing because of the assessed value growing, we've actually been
increasing our levy. Correct. And taking advantage of all that up until this point. So lowering the
tax rate, correct? Yeah, because the assessed value went so high, we were able to lower the tax rate
and still bring in a lot more money. And by the 2027 potential bond, there'll be another
It's sad, but they've been pretty clear that
They're going to reopen it next year and that we have heard now. Does that impact K-12? It's too early
to say, but we've heard from legislators that they're not thrilled. Yeah, we also need some help.
I think what I've heard when they're not happy with what I don't think they think they went far enough.
And so I don't I don't anticipate them opening the budget for reprieve. I think if the budget get open,
I think there's more downside risk than there is upside risk. Yeah. So I don't mean to get you optimistic
because I don't. Thanks for bursting the buzzer. We're me busting, right? Right. Right. Oh, now that's
going on. It's already up to Jake and Chappell. They're paying.
else will city taxes to pop up. Yeah, so I don't know. Are you sitting with us now? No, no. It's coming
in a wheel tax. Yeah, I'm hearing that a lot. They could do what they tried to get him to go the most,
but having a couple more members didn't want to do that. But we're we're not rehiring a police officer.
I guess that's why I'm so sensitive about what's going on. Yeah, we're not lost police officer. Yeah, so.
Jerry, I know I went out of the room for a moment, but what were you saying about the renovation of
these classrooms? I was looking for ways to get the biggest bang for our buck. It's not in this is what
I'm getting at. It is. Where is it?
Where it says $6,600,938? Yeah, that's the performing arts. It doesn't include the $2.2 million to renovate
banding choir. Oh, it's your junior high one that you were talking about that you were going to do the...
Oh, okay. So right now, if you add that back in, you're over $42 million. Right, okay. I meant to...
I thought I put that back in there.
Because for the 40 million, you're only getting three classrooms. Yeah, you're right. So I don't know.
I just got it. Well, I was hoping that we were going to move further. But I don't think that I can vote
for spending
that much, $40 million, and not doing much at all for education. Yeah. Educational space. And I know
some of these spaces get used for education, too, but I don't mean that. And yes, I mean, we have successful
performing arts programs, but they do have them in the space they have. And they do need more space.
Well, that's the purpose of this meeting is I'm looking for guidance on whether or not we want to ask
for the full 40 million. I want to write. Yeah. So just a quick distinction on that and that there's
probably not to the point where he has any sort of draw schedule, but typically we fund these projects.
one year at a time, right? And so you could certainly borrow the 40 million. If Victor and Martin tell
us, you know, it's going to be a two year spend down, then we're essentially
starting to pay interest on 40 million dollars and we're taking us two years to spend and so kind of
the way we started to do this just for efficiency purposes and help your capacity is if they tell us
you can only spend 20 million dollars next year in terms of these projects then we borrow that 20 million
now we fund it through next year come back next year and do the remaining 20 million or whatever you
guys decide that it is
That way we're not paying interest on the full 40 million from day one. It will increase your debt capacity.
But if they tell us, no, we can spend all this money in 14 months or 12 months, and certainly we can
go and borrow it all. These projects, I think, tend to take a little bit longer than they did five or
six years ago. But I would look to these guys on a spend down. I doubt we're quite there yet, though.
I don't know if you have any. The rough rule of thumb is I'd like to have
no more than a million dollars a month in new construction, right? So, you know, if you were building
a $10 million addition, I would want a year to do that. A $20 million addition, I don't want two years
to do it. I mean, that's the rule of thumb we start with. So you have to spend down by two years, 95%
of the money?
Yeah, point which the bond sale closes is that what yeah I mean that's that's for arbitrage purposes
and that's not something I get super concerned about right now yeah I mean that.
A lot of times when you say you have two years to spend, people think we literally only have two years
to spend. You have as long as you need to spend. That's for arbitrage purposes. What that is is if you
earn, say you borrow the $40 million, you put it in the bank, as you spend it down, if you earn an interest
rate on that, essentially investment income that is above the interest rate of the bonds,
then you would need to give that back to the IRS if you don't spend all of the dollars within two years.
I don't typically get super concerned, because we're talking tens of thousands of dollars that maybe
you have to give back. You don't have to give back all the interest. You only have to give back the
delta between what you could earn and what you did earn. And so I don't want you guys to get caught
up on that is like the most important thing ever. That's exactly right. That is exactly right.
historically when rates were super low, you weren't ever getting close. Now that rates are a little
bit higher, that's a potential. However, we're probably going into a cycle of rates coming down. So
if you were to borrow this money today at 4%, you're likely not earning 4% a year from now if the Fed
starts cutting the way they're saying they're going to cut. And so I don't see that as being a huge,
I guess, consideration in terms of this. But yeah, it's a two-year spend down to meet the arbitrage
requirements. So the nice thing I should point out is that that's not cumulative of a million.
So for example, if we had a million in addition and then we had a concurrent asphalt of a million or
a concurrent roofing of a million, we could work that into it. So I don't necessarily mean if you spent
30 million in construction that it's 30 months.
stack those projects just like we stack these together. Those are collected just collectively per year.
It was like 60, 70,000 past years.
They're not sitting in the same account 130,000. They're all in separate accounts, earning separate
interest. You've got to track separately, and then the money's got to go into those specific projects.
Correct. That is correct, yes. What's the most it is?
You're probably right at 4%. Rates have come down about a quarter of a point in the last three days
because we've gotten a bunch of bad economic news, and so now we're thinking the Fed's gonna have to
cut and potentially even do a double cut here at the end of this month. I'll believe that when I see
it the way they've been doing the last year. But there is momenta. There's a lot of momentum for lower
rates, and certainly Powell's, he's gonna be out
next spring and so they're starting to replace kind of those spots with some people that want rates
to come down. So I think it's coming but we've been saying that for 18 months and so. What's the time
frame on wanting to get these issued? So you'll be through the legal process to where you're free and
clear to sell. I think it's October 30th
23rd looking at jacob's time so right now we're anticipating the first week of november so we still
got some time for you guys to put your heads together figure out exactly how you want to do this we're
not under the gun yet by by any means and all that powerful stuff you you your parameter was i think
it's six percent wasn't it i think i even had seven percent maybe yeah we want to be
Nowhere. Yeah, I had 7% in there. So again, as we sit here today, we might even be under four after
today's movement.
If the Fed doesn't cut in September or they don't do what the market expects, we might see rates revert
back higher. So I don't want to get you too excited with that 4% because a lot of things could change.
100%. And even when I tell you kind of those capacity, I'm running everything at a 5% interest rate.
And so if interest rates end up coming down or staying down, then that capacity goes up. So yeah, I
don't want you to get stuck on these are the end all be all numbers.
because there are just projections based on certain assumptions that might change. So the concern that
Dana brought up, would you like us to, yeah, would you like us to go back and take another look at this
and make the banding? I don't remember what the classroom needs were at each building, what they were
needing and projecting that they would need.
So I don't know what the, I don't remember, was that in that facilities? When? The facility study? Yeah.
Well, that's been a while back, so. So, yeah, it'd be. Isn't it just really a result of, once you build
an addition, what you have is what you have to remodel into other use of space? Yeah. Right, the space
is good. The space is interesting. Whatever you have, the space you vacated creates five or six classrooms,
The question is how much do you want to spend on the new addition or whether you want to do a new addition?
I mean, maybe it's that simple, I don't know. Well, or should some of that addition be classrooms? Is
there enough class? For more capacity. Yes. Do we need more classrooms? For more capacity. For performing
arts space. Like that, in terms of adding a classroom? Yeah. Okay, because this space is not changing
at all. Space is still going to be all right.
Yes. If they go down here, I find it hard to believe that six classrooms here can all be made by one
person. Well, that would be without remodeling. Like the choir room has concrete bleachers, so you really
can't make that a classroom. Okay, I'd just like to see it. The band room is rather large, so it wouldn't
be a typical classroom. Yeah.
So it would need some adjustments. I thought we were going to do something up here with choir and just
make classrooms here originally. Well, but what they were looking at was the, they were talking about
this plus this stuff here. The weight room area. Right. And then turn this all down here to classrooms.
Well, that was a possibility. That was one of the things. Yeah, one of the issues.
was this height of the ceiling, the roof to be able to put. One of the things that I'm not arguing,
I'm just raising other points a little bit. One of the things I worry about is putting money into additional
band acquirer space. And then as soon as we're done, people saying it's just not big enough. We've already
said that.
Our band director will say that no matter how much we get in. Well, we always hear that on all of our
projects, you're right. And I mean, love him to death, but Dirk is, if we added 15 new classrooms, he
would say he needed another classroom. Or another office space. Yeah. Storage. Yeah. But we can go back
and take another look at it for sure. Yeah.
worked, you said some of the other schools were maybe a little bit bigger in us that had similar facilities.
Have you designed these facilities with two thirds of space of what we're asking for? I think we have
examples from all ranges and it seems to be driven by the success of the program. Quite frankly, it
seems like
I mean, even in the same district, I might have one school, a middle school that's super music and they
have busting from the seams. And then on the other side of the district, they don't have very strong
programs. So it's very, it's very circumstantial to, you know, the success of the program. And people
are very, very vocal about the space they need in order to move.
to be able to set up and have indoor space. And again, we're being able to have all this success and
having lost students that I know of because of it with the facilities we have. So I do think making
them better, we need to make them better. I guess one of the things I really need to know how many more
classrooms we really do and where do we need them at?
You know, do we need more classrooms and EIS and EPS? EPS got those four that they've taken over, so
that's really helped. But, you know, I... Well, junior high is a school of the greatest need, I'd say.
Right. One thing you might think about is
And if you look at it option two biomedical labs converted to classrooms, that's $2.6 million. So that
probably not going to move the needle very much. It's X amount of space that you're going to remodel
into something. The performing arts edition as proposed is 11.4. That's I think with the mezzanine is
closer to 20,000 square feet. But so it is.
Easily twice as big as two and a half times. I guess my point is, if you just replicated the square
footage you have now, you're probably in five to six million dollars. So if 11.4 is too much and you
wouldn't replicate how much square footage you have now, five to six, what's the speed spot?
What's your threshold? That's another way to look at it. I don't want to replicate what I have, but
maybe this is too much. So it must be somewhere between five and a half and 11 and a half. Is that a
fair statement? I mean, just looking at the footprint, the band is real close to the size of the band
inquired now.
But I think that's what Jerry may have been asking. If I was Misha, I'd be like, okay, well, if that's
too big, what is big enough? But that's just the band room. That doesn't count the fact that there's
all those other offices and the equipment storage and all that that's not even in that band room anymore.
You have 7,200 square feet now. The design's proposing over 18.
in the 7,200 includes band, choir, and auxiliary rooms. So if you put it in dollars perspective, if
I replicate what I have, I'm somewhere around five to six million. If I more than double and do what's
shown, it's 11.4. So I think what I'm hearing you say is you want a solution somewhere between five
to six and 11.4. Is that it?
Or I think what I picked up is, if we're gonna do this much, why isn't more of it classroom space?
Why isn't? Okay, it's maybe 11.4 is the right number, but it needs to have classroom space incorporated.
Is that another way to say it? I don't think a hundred burns. The amount of money we're putting into
classrooms is minimal with this $40 million, and I have a hard time stomaching that.
So, and to me, the place to get more classroom space out of, or to cut costs so that you can use that
money somewhere else, would be to lower the amount of performing arts space in the two buildings. Your
heartburn isn't the $40 million, it's what it's being spent on. Exactly. The efficiency of what it's
spent on. The total student population using
Does that sound right? Well, just what is your basic academics as opposed to the arts academics? Science,
English, math, all those other things. Well, I understand where you come from, Dana. The one thing I
will point out is that it's been
In the last four years, we have added quite a bit of classroom space. We haven't done anything for the
science labs. And that would be the counterbalance to that. But I don't think that balance is out. That,
making them three to four times the size. I don't think that balance is out to me. If that's the case,
then we should be
putting that money into something else, whether it's more the HVAC or more the roof or more the,
you know, there's other needs out there that I just think we're spending too much on performing arts
when we have so many other needs. I'm not worried about the 40 million, I'm just worried about what
that 40 million is. So if we took a arbitrary percentage, say two thirds of that 18-8,
and added that space and whatever that would save us, put that toward the HVAC and some of the other
stuff, I think, probably. Even if it's not classrooms. Right, something that makes that 40 million a
little less. And I think if we're looking at 27, 28, somewhere in there for maybe even other bonds,
things like, okay, well, what if we did for the softball,
What if we fixed the field and gave him a concession stand and bathroom and left it at that for now?
What if we just, of course I understand if you're turfing the pitching. You don't want to separate that
necessarily.
I don't know, or maybe you do one film and then three years later you do the other film or something.
You take those phone calls? Yeah.
Well, I mean, I played on that. I'm having issues with the turfing too, because it's like there's so
many other things, like you're saying, classroom HVAC, the roofs, all the things that we have to do,
we have to get that done first. Turfing is way low in my opinion on that total. I understand what you're
saying, but in terms of in this day and age when,
Parents can take their kids anywhere. Their athletes can take their athletes anywhere. We are getting
behind on our fields being turfed and we will lose students going to MCC. Martin Zoll has all their
fields turfed now. MCC has all their fields turfed.
I think Spencer Owens going that way now. And so parents were quite frankly, and I'm not arguing with
you, I'm just saying parents will choose to go places where the facilities are better for the sport.
I mean, when I played sport, you had a coach that could coach your, it didn't matter what field we played
on. Didn't matter if it was, if you had a good coach, you had quality stuff, your students are gonna
stay. It's not because you have a turf field or not.
I don't know, I have a problem with that being at a higher level. There's more other things, in my opinion,
to spend that 2. whatever million on. Just not right now, and then just walking into what we're gonna
be walking into in the next few years. Well, I like the turf. I think we need to do it. I think it brings
people in, so. Well, the other thing, Jerry's talking
wear and tear. Well, yeah, and also tournaments. I mean, I just think it's we're going into a different
world. Yeah, a couple of years ago, we had to we were hosting the sectionals and rained a lot. So we
had to move the sectionals over to Bloomington North. Yeah. OK.
Is everybody at least comfortable with the concept of bonding? The full 40? The full 40, yes. Then we
can crank it up if we want to. I think we're already kind of arguing over what ought to be spent in
that 40. Yeah, I mean, I don't think we have a choice. I mean, honestly, I think we need to. Yeah. I
really do. I just really want to keep it in our 30, honestly. Like the episode in which we would end
up. But I like that.
if she could send it to us again. Showing how the capacity works out. Well, and as they drop off, then
I think I do like the idea, Jerry, of picking up some of those, we need to get some of those cleared
out, pick up some projects, wrap these up, some of those old bars, we need to get those down. Well,
and the idea of 20 this year and 20 next, that makes some sense too. The stacking may be a little,
because if you look at your biggest one, that's like 12 months. But then you also have all the time
to design, so does that include the design time or is that just construction time? That was construction
when I was talking about. I would encourage you if you're going to do a junior high edition and a high
school edition, I would encourage you to put those together.
I think what Jerry articulated earlier makes a lot of sense. On the other hand, if you want to pull
a trigger on HVAC, roofing, or pavement, I don't see the same kind of concerns. Although we could combine
mechanical with the additions, you could also do it independent. But those would be some things if you
want to peel off and get going on. Those would be a first choice.
hold off on the asphalt until most of the construction. That's a good point. That's a good point, although
I think there's, yeah, depends on where we're at in that, right? Yeah. Does that keep us out of that?
What's that bracket, 75% or 60%? 70 cents. But by doing a stairs test, would that be still fine on that
thing? If we did 20 main twice, the range could go that way, too.
Yeah, if you keep your levy level, then the stair stepping is not going to impact that. It's solely
going to be based off of your AB drop and how quickly does it drop. What the stair stepping would help
do is increase your overall debt capacity. So if you did it all now and then the rest in 27,
you're talking, you know, 70 to 75 million. Does that number become 75 to 80 million by splitting this
up? That's where if you're saving
interest costs, that means you can add more principal in there. The 70 cents is solely going to be a
function of your assessed value moving forward if you decide to keep that levy level each and every
year. So if your assessed value, let's just say flat lines, then you're not going to get to the 70 cents
because you guys are at 65 cents right now. But if you lose 5%,
in 27, let's say, you're gonna start creeping towards that 70 cents. So my expectation for you is by
the time we get to 31, and I mentioned 31, because that's when all of the Senate Bill 1 is fully phased
in, my guess is you will be above 70 cents, but that's a time, I just don't know how it's ultimately
gonna impact your assessed value. So many changes. So many changes. So I know it's not helpful, but
I don't really have any answers beyond
next year, because that's the only data we have. I don't know what the rates are going to be. The bond
rates are two years from now. If it dips below four, we lock in the whole thing, and we're not really
going to be too concerned about arbitrage anyway. I don't foresee that being an issue for you guys.
I don't foresee arbitrage being an issue for you guys, no. I was doing arbitrage, it just means you
have excess, so. That's right.
Yeah, you still keep what you earn. You just have to get back what you earned in excess. But with the
rates likely coming down, we're kind of on the cycle where rates are probably going to come back down.
You're likely to lock in a rate and then your investment rates start coming down. So my guess is you
won't run into it. But again, we just don't know that. I have a couple of questions for roofing. Does
it save money to do all the roofs at one time?
Or can we do like the elementary schools first, then the high school, then the junior high? I think
that there's a diminishing return once you get to a certain point, Jerry. So I would almost think if
you did the high school and then coupled the rest of them. I was gonna say $10 million worth of roofing
is more than anybody could, if most companies could take on at one time. So to your point about,
phasing the roofing out, yes. That you're not gonna lose that economy of scale if you broke that in
three or four phases. So yes, to answer your question, we could break the roofing out into two or three
years easily and not lose that economy of scale. All right, I appreciate that. The other question for
the board is, do you, given some of the other needs that we have with this biomedical training project,
Would you, what are your thoughts on scaling that back in terms of, we are pretty far along with Boston
Scientific. Boston Scientific and Cook Medical, they could basically use one classroom, maybe, yeah,
one classroom.
at the risk of not taking the 500,000. I just want to make sure, I want to see, I just want to know
kind of your thoughts on, are you convinced? I mean, I'm obviously very convinced in that project, but
as a board, I would like to have some directions of, we don't want to take all,
We don't want to take the grant just to get, we don't spend a lot of money just to get the grant. We
want to spend the money to meet needs. So. I'm very committed to that concept of the medical career
path. And I think that is, I think we've,
invested a lot in it already and that we've really, I don't know, I'm banking on it, I'm counting on
it, helping our community, our students for a number of years to come. I'd hate to see us scale it back.
I think we've already had it back from what I originally saw. I just want to, I'm just trying to get
some. I would like to see something, I know it's early maybe, but I would like to see something more
in concrete
from what they're willing to give back to us, who bosses scientific and cook. The grant's not coming
from the MGR, it's coming from our own. And I know they're excited about it, but we're doing all the
legwork. What are they bringing to the table? I've not seen it yet. Maybe you've seen it and you haven't
shared it. But I'd like to see what we're gonna get in return for that. The whole idea was that they
would provide the facilitators to come onto our campus
And we see it in writing. Well, something I just started talking to Christine about, I think, or I meant
to. She's like, no, not yet. It's on my list to do that. I'd like to create some MOUs with them and
have the board approve those MOUs.
If we're committing to doing this, what are you gonna commit to us? And I'd like to see, are we, you
did mention IU or IU Health or SEMTRA, are we still in discussion with them or are they cooling down?
We're in conversation with all three of them and we've even been approached by SEMTRA to get involved. I,
IU Health has a gentleman that, he's a professor at IU, but he goes all over the country and sets up
these sim labs. And so he volunteered actually to work with us on creating one of these labs to be like
a sim lab. Yeah. That'd be super. Yeah. So yeah, I'd love to see. I think the big benefit to this is
because it's a big benefit to our students. And it's helping them get prepared for jobs. Well, and a
lot of high schools are currently having their students start as juniors and already like in the nursing
field, they're already taking courses. So by the time they're out of high school, they have almost,
and some have gotten their associate's degree already. That's one favor the general assembly did is
that they're allowing under 18,
And they're getting almost that already Hoosier Hills right now. That's correct. I thought we could
flip it. Exactly. They're watching it out with the socials at area 30. So are you happy with the number
of classrooms we would be gaining at the junior high? I don't know. I would like to know, you know,
from, you know, what the anticipated need is.
going to be for the next, even if it's five years. Well, we had the demographic, two demographic studies
done, and the last one said there'd be slow, steady growth. Right. There was also big bubbles that come
through that can be difficult to deal with. So I don't know.
I don't know what those projections are. I don't know how many classrooms were short now that if we
had these classrooms, we need these classrooms. So what are we short now? What is anticipated being
short? Well, what if the journeys does move into the junior? Where's that? How many kids are you talking about?
off the top of my head, I don't know exactly. We're not talking 100 kids, no. No, no. Less than 10.
I'd say it's minimal growth, yeah. Yeah, so you don't need 6,000 square feet for 12 years. Right, no.
Well, let me see if we can figure out a way to give you some data on that. Okay. So I like- In high
school, yeah, I think the same thing. What would you use?
If we did three classrooms, what's he going to use those for? If he did six classrooms, oh yeah. Let's
talk to the band director when we came in, he said that that has opened up, even though it's the same
space, it's opened up a lot more uses taking all that concrete out of there. Well, we'll come to what
you think about this plan, but we'll gather some data that will help us to determine the specific needs
for how much classroom space we're going to need. Find that out, and that'll be the priority. And then
once you have that information, that'll dictate how big of a space we have for band and choir. Partially.
Because we also have those other competing interests with the HVAC and all those other things too that
are on the list. So there's a lot of competing interests for that.
I think there's enough competing interests that we need to scale those back. We need to what? Scale
those back. Yeah, okay. And make, scale what back? For instance, the performing arts, the band and choir,
instead of being, they're being tremendously larger than they are right now, that make them larger,
but not to that extent. And then for instance, if you did that, then on option one,
You could put the two labs over there and then have the six classrooms there. And, you know, for the
same dollars. That's my concern. I mean, you're adding to that space. You're going to add a whole new
space. I don't like option one. I don't like to use option two and use that space appropriately. It
has flexibility there.
because we're not changing the footprint other than the inside on option two. Is it not being connected
to our innovative learning center initiative? Option two, it would not be, correct? Right, right.
Option two, we don't have another thumbnail hanging out there. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know that
there'd be a huge benefit to connecting them. Are they going to be operated kind of separately and separate
kind of thing? I don't think so.
I don't know what you mean by separately. Well, I mean, they're separated. For the rest of the school
can shut down. Yes. The labs could be used during the day if open. Right. So the other question is,
are you looking to make, you want the HVAC to be more of a priority and put more money towards that?
I'd like to go
back there and look at some of these numbers again to figure out what we're cutting out to make that
happen. So I'm not sure exactly. I just want some time to look at it. But I don't know that I got the
answer. Is there a benefit to having the labs connected to the Innovative Learning Center? Would there
be cross-use
between those spaces to where if they were side by side, it would be more efficient than if they were
separated by, well, you'd have to basically go out to the commons and back down or go outside to get
there, unless you put in a separate hallway. I think to really separate programs. You already got your
interest for the innovators that are already established.
You don't have to change the footprint either underneath. That's another, that's a cost savings option.
If you did option one, you got to do all the underneath stuff again too. You don't have to do it with
option two. It's already there. There's no utilities there.
But if you are scaling back how big this is, I'm saying scale by stress. Right. But if you go over here,
you have to do all new infrastructure. Right, which you have to do over here too. I'm just saying take
it from here and put it here. I mean, I don't particularly like it because I don't like the fact that
The overhead door now would be a long way away from, or a lot longer way away at least from the auditorium.
But I don't know that that's horrible either. So, all right. I remember.
projects are and you start talking about the border. I mean, we couldn't spend $40 million next year
if you wanted us to, I don't think. We've got to get it designed, we've got to get it bid, we've got
to get started. So it might not be 2020, it might be 18 and 22. It might be a different combination.
So we can run some cash flows so you can right size that unless there's a financial reason to borrow
more than you need in 2026.
which there might be, but I just offer that we can run scenarios once we have a scope of work and you
borrow what you need and no more than you need. Exactly. That'd be perfect. I mean, I'm thinking at
26, we're going to have at best eight months of construction. Yeah, we're going to use the first four
months to get the design together and the bid for the first phase of whatever we do.
It's gonna take longer to design the new addition than it is to do the roofing project, particularly.
Yeah. And Jerry, at some point, this has been, this last time was very good, about we need to share
this with, we need to share the proposed additions with the public, so they see what's coming out, because
I've been getting some calls about, well, what are they even thinking about doing? I haven't seen anything
in concrete yet. Right. But I don't know if we're ready to do that yet. I'm sensing we need to see this.
Oh yeah, for sure. Probably sooner rather than later. Well, we have to gather some information, like
Dana said, kind of process what we've talked about tonight, and then come back together. Okay. And I
think that, again, part of it was two goals. One, to figure out what we were going to do, but the other
part was the bonding part. Right.
There's pretty much a general consensus that forward with 40 million because it looks like we're going
to need it. Right. How do we get that out? It just depends on the cash flows. Send us that, send us
that graphic in the jury. If we did, I'd like to see that again. And you had it at the $6 or 6% mark.
Everything you do is at a higher end, right?
Yeah, so what we put in the resolution was 7%. Everything I've run from my charts is at 5%, which is
still a percent higher. Yeah, that just helps me visualize it better. Yep, I'll get that to you.
All right. All right. Anything else? Can I throw one more thing in? No. But school construction, so
there's certain things that we really like to do during the summer.
as you're deliberating and prioritizing. There are projects that we would like, like roofing. We'd rather
do roofing as much as we can during the summer, for the shoulder months, you know. We could probably
start the new additions about anytime. You don't like to do that in January? We could start the new
addition about, well, let's say 10 out of 12 months, we could start the new addition. So you'd have
a little more time to deliberate and design that. Is there kind of like a little,
email you could send us. I'm trying not to make the decisions for you, but there are some things that
I would recommend you get going on. If you're convinced you want to do at least some roughing, I'd love
to pull the trigger and have Misha start putting the drawings together and do some roughing ASAP, so
that we can bid it right at the beginning of the first few years. You want to bid the project
when everybody's the hungriest, right? We're talking about April being the best for bleachers. We want
to bid there somewhere in January, February,
It's not urgent, but it's something we want. We need some decisions in the next 30 days, so maybe that
first phase. We do need to address the bleachers. That's also more urgent priorities. You mean the one
in April? Well, junior high and high school. Okay, but those are coming from previous bonds.
Right now, I have the high school bleachers coming out of the geo-bond. Which geo-bond? The new one?
The 2022 geo-bond. So those are out of the existing one? And the junior high bleachers coming out of
the 2010 construction. Right. I mean, in all seriousness, we find out the price difference. Well, but
the other thing, too, you've got to think about is,
You need the bleachers for the basketball season. And so kind of stuck in waiting until after the program
basketball season. What's that? We do have a meeting with Lee and company this week regarding the high school.
I've seen about the high school. It gets three sets of bleachers. You got two bottom, all the bottom
and that top on the other side. I forgot about that. Is that what we're talking about? Is that just
getting a price or bidding or doing or what? Quoting. Quoting. Quoting. Quoting. Quoting. Quoting. Quoting.
Quoting. Quoting. Quoting. Quoting. Quoting.
project and then broke down by individual levels. But yeah, Brad's point. Are we talking about both
the bottoms and one of the tops? One top's permanent concrete. So on the permanent side, we're going
to take a look and see if we can, what's it called? Recap. Recap the seats. Didn't we recap them? We
had them five years ago. They've been recapped. They had been recapped. They were wood. Five years ago?
No, four years ago.
Okay. Really? I've only been here three. I don't know. I remember when they were wood, but that might
have been 1980. I remember 1965. We're going to take a look at all of it. We're going to take a look
at all of it, but the priority are the movable. Okay, gotcha.
All right, anything else? No. I'm ready to go home. All right, leaving adjourned.