The main item on our agenda today is going to be the annual reports, which are we have to turn over
then to the county commissioners and then they have to approve moved on to the state by loading them
onto the gateway for the process we've used in the past.
All right. Let me make one kind of overview comment about these reports. As you are aware, these TIF
districts have origins at different points in time, varying levels of activities. One of the things
I noticed as I was going through them is that the reports themselves have
different kind of forms, particularly in the beginning, in terms of what gets divulged and what doesn't
get divulged. And as a general comment, it would be nice if we had the same kind of information for
each of these reports. I think the one for the large one for the west side
probably has the most information since they're the longest and have been accumulating it. And I noticed
that there is a allocation area definition for that TIF. There are various funds that are applicable
for that particular TIF. There's history of some of the major issues occurred which are of current information.
There's notice about insufficient funds. And then there is the summary of findings. I don't for these
other reports notice that kind of delineation of the allocation area and talking about it. And I did
not find for any that we knew from when the TIP began and when the TIP is going to end.
And those, that kind of information I think would be helpful in these reports, particularly in terms
of making them look the same for us. That's possible to do. I certainly think some of that can, beginning
date, ending date, those kind of things are kind of known items and we can certainly. The Westside TIF
is always going to be different. That's the one we have.
Bonds out there that require us to do. Disclosures and things through the through the federal process
the other the the bonds and the others I think are much more. Helper back bonds and things were. Have
that market presentation of debt that people are buying the others are kind of bought. There's just
a little different nuance to that and that's probably is why some of the
Right. It would be nice, though, for the public if they kind of were able to look at these and say,
oh, okay, that one's like this, this one's like this, this one started then, this one started there.
I'm not even sure it tells us in both cases where the developer has purchased the bonds. That nuance
is not quite clear to someone who's looking at these.
order do you want to proceed? Well, the preference that I would have would be start with the Curry and
then probably go to the Thornton Pike and then the west side. We're going to do Curry, Fullerton, Bloomington
Township, end up with the west side.
We still don't have anybody online to do the presentation, do we? All right. Well, I will continue,
and then when he comes on, he can correct everything I say. Okay. Sounds good. All right. So we'll start
with the Curry Profile TIF District. This was created, I believe, in 2018 when
A developer bought the former GE site, and it was two parcels. And at that point in time, they had huge
plans, great plans. We were really excited to see what they were going to do. And so they bought it.
We could put a TIF district in. We issued up to $6 million in bonds. We only went through the closing
cost because shortly,
Developer did a lot of work on the property and it kind of this property ended up right now. It's part
of the Simtra family and the Simtra is going into this to do quite a few manufacturing lines and the
work that the previous developer, which was Cook Group, what they put in the building made that transaction
ultimately possible and it attracted this business into this facility that had
really major issues and needed a lot of work. And so in some respects, it still was a great thing that
that all occurred because that property would not be where it's at today if it hadn't occurred.
But in 2020, COVID issues, the development stalled and that the developer decided that they weren't
going to be able to continue to use the property in a business decision.
They didn't draw any of the money. They had a pretty sophisticated abatement schedule that they did
not utilize because they realized that they weren't going to invest in it. So that was how this TIF
district was generated. We have accelerated the payments as much as we could to get the bond paid off
so we can get it off our books, get it off the developer's books. We have $10,600 left in that.
Purchaser center purchased the property and they're doing a lot of work. They also got a lot of abatements,
right? They got an abatement package that was probably the most generous that the county has given,
but it also had a lot more requirements from the business than we've ever required of anybody else for
an abatement. So I think at the end of the day, we gave more, but we got more. And so I think that was
a good thing.
So as far as long-term plans for the allocation area, I think at this point it's to get the hook bomb
paid off. I think this is also an area where as we do phase two or phase three of the career reconstruction,
I think this is able to support that to the extent they have revenues, but right now the revenues are
not going to come in very quickly because of the Abatement Act.
So I think that's kind of the long-term plan and as far as Going off the impact on each of the taxing
units. This is a two-parcel TIF. I think the impact of the taxing units are going to be Nominal at best
I think without this stiff district and without the The incentives that were created when this was created
property would not be where it's at today. So any
Impact I think long term the impact of this district is going to be very good. At the taxing units,
it's just a matter of getting that property up and up and going. OK, Charlie is on sweet Charlie and
I just finished curry profile TIF district. We want to note that Randy Cassidy has shown up. That sounds
good. This is Charlie. Can you guys hear me?
Yes, we can. I don't know. Is a straight line statement for the entire tenure graduated? Kind of neither,
right? What it is is I think it's very high for at least the first three years. And then there is a
commitment of the business that if they put in another line,
within the first three or four years, I don't remember, then aims at a high rate, and that new, that
second one will start at the high rate, and then that repeats a couple times, so that at the end of
the day, the first 10 years of the initial abatement has the potential to be very high, not 100%,
but like 90, 80, somewhere in that range, and then each additional ones have the ability to stay higher
until the last one, which would just, I think, standard abatement, because there's nothing there,
there's not a further action that would push it higher. Right. So it's here to approach. Well, it's
an incentive approach, right? If they meet their incentives, the abatement stays high. The abatement
starts to decrease. Right. So there will be some income from it because they're not at 100%. Well, first
year I think they are. Right. I think all abatements start first year 100%. There will be it won't be
10 years of 100%. So there is in this then a service schedule put in here for the 10,600, which is not
going to happen because we're not going to pay them $133 a year, once a year, twice a year. We do have
some funds available. Now have 21,
Our plan for the current year is to pay that $10,660 and let it start accumulating again to be used
for things like the curry pike which is adjacent to the property. We can use it. But we're not going
to have much money coming in to do the curry pike.
few years, what's our plan for that money after the Curry Pike is done? Do we have a plan? I am I'm
not aware of what that plan would be. Right. We when we set this district up it was to support the the
exterior of that facility and that is that is not kind of in the cards for that right now. I think that's
a great thing to have Lisa Ridge look at.
And could SIMTRA potentially buy a bond from us which would cover whatever they're paying in taxes to
get their taxes? Property? I mean, that's a potential.
I guess at this point, I mean, you just expressed we're getting $10,000 to $20,000 in revenue a year.
I'm not sure it's worth the cost of issuance, right, at this point. So at that point, though, does revenue
that we should be giving back? I think it could. I also think Cook still owns that it's a two lot. I
think Cook still owns a second. I really want to have conversations with both Simtra and Cook to see
what kind of needs they see in that area. I'd also really like to talk to Lisa Ridge to see what kind
of support she thinks, particularly the Curry Profile intersection. Did Simter buy both lots or just
the one? Just the one. Okay, so the one that's in the back that Cook did some work on. So that's going
to generate some income. I think Cook kept the parking lot. That's the second lot.
I think the second lot is kind of the one closer to the Cook's campus that is essentially parking. From
the stop light north, right? If Cook held onto the parking lot, is that what you're talking about? The
parking lot on the west side which was the old General Electric that it enters off of. There's a building
in there. What is the road Mike Curry lived on?
Right there. Now it's profile off of Daniels Road. Next one to the east. There's that road and then
the parcel itself is where the retention pond. Right. The excesses. Did they take down that other building
that was there? There was no building on that particular.
There's two buildings on what I'm calling the center parcel. There's still two buildings. Actually,
three. Two manufacturing and then there's like a utility building. Then there's a central plant. Right.
Okay. That central plant then is on the parcel that was purchased. The other one is vacant or has a
parking lot. I think it's utilized for parking. But it does generate a little bit of income.
So that would then accumulate, figure out what we're gonna do after, because we'll have to make that
decision next year, if we pay that bond off, have to make that decision about what to do next. Right
now there's what, approximately $40,000? No, 10. 10 total. I think the plan is to get that paid off
this year. Yeah, we'll pay that off this year,
do that, we look at the revenue and see what the bonding case is. We ask SEMTRA and Cooke what their
infrastructure needs are in order to support their. If there would be a potential possibility of bonding.
So little money. We will have a couple of years of Curry Pike work. Whatever is there for the next two
or three years at least.
And I think Lisa would be who I'd first ask about. Because I remember when she was there, then also
after Cook purchases, there were railroad track issues, dealing with electricity, just kind of strange
things. We got the sidewalk along Curry. We got the three-plot along Curry. There's plenty of places
to put the money. And it's not that much money. It's just a map.
we're going to allocate that or we're going to use it for something that's going to be a private increase
the employment on. Jeff, so help me out here. In the event of a reorganization of Ellisville and Richland
Township. Well, it's in Richland Township. That is right. That is true. I haven't seen their final document.
I think either they're voting on or they're reviewing it tonight. A lot of it depends on if it's going
to be part of the town. There are a lot of rules that says if an area within a county TIF district is
annexed, what happens? Right. There is not a whole lot of rules on I don't think that the merger is
an annexation of this area.
If it's not annexed, I think the rules we have would still apply. But without seeing exactly what they're
doing, and I should say I've had a brief conversation with Mr. Farmer. I don't think they have any intention
of annexing this area or anything like that. I think their intent is to let the TIFDIS continue to do
what they do.
I think they're looking to do different things, right? So I don't want to, I'm not throwing shade anywhere.
Yeah, yeah, I know you're not. And I think based on my conversations with Mike Farmer is being
a reorganization, not an annexation. Right. That makes sense. Yeah. And if it's not in a municipal limit,
then I think the rules don't change. If it were to be annexed and we didn't have debt, then those properties,
that property would become
part of the city or town. Or the reorganization area for the original township. Reorganization areas,
there's not a lot out there on that, right? And there's not a lot of rules and statute on what happens.
Probably Adams Township in Hamilton County which they looked at, right? Sheridan Adams has been the
model. I don't think they have this kind of situation. But it helps add clarity if we know this obviously
for sure that looking beyond with the future will center there.
We have an obligation at the present moment, that obligation is minimal amount. So consequently, either
way we go, within a year we would have financial clarity in regards to which way it would go once we
pay off that. The only question is, is talking to Lisa and the other individual about what public needs.
I'm on here. Oh, wonderful. Hello, Ms. Lisa. I can use some homework for next year.
Sorry, I've had my hand raised for a few minutes, so I apologize. But, you know, in that area, when
SEMTRA took over, we did have an agreement with Cook for some improvements. And we also, instead of
doing the original Vernal Pike trail connection, we've come up with a different option that would go
along Profile Parkway, which is already built, and then go
of Curry Pike and build that trail on the south side of Profile Parkway to connect to the Karst Farm
Trail. So that's still out there. Also the railroad tracks that have been eliminated by the railroad.
It would be great to have those removed. We also have Profile Parkway west of Curry Pike on our radar
that it is going to need a reconstruction eventually just like Curry Pike.
from a from a money standpoint, Lisa, you're needing the redevelopment to help fund those. Yeah, yeah,
that would be that would be ideal. If that would be that we are still I don't know how the talks are
going. I know planning has been talking with center to see if they would commit to some of those things
that cook had originally committed to. And part of that was that trail on the north side of their property
goes along profile Parkway that would eliminate
that Vernal Pike Trail project that was going to be like 1.8 million in the West Side Tiff. And then
you would have everything connecting from Bloomington to the Karst Trail. I would be remiss to not remind
people that when the state did send an old act a year ago, they made changes to personal property that
do not affect people in a tiff.
There is no floor if you're outside of TIF district, but if you're inside of TIF district that was put
in place prior to when they enacted it, then there is a floor for your personal property. So I'm curious
how, when we talk to the businesses, I think year one, year two, year three, it's not going to really
matter, but year 10, year 15, year 20, there might be some, hey, actually having this in a TIF district
is hurting us.
So I don't think that's a next four or five year issue, but I think it will be interesting to see how
that all plays out. When Lisa is looking at it, we're looking at the infrastructure cost. It's a matter
of how our bonding costs will be, what our revenues are, and at this present moment we have a territorial
item that needs to be addressed so it will be set in November. And I'm not even sure.
what they're doing over their effects is territorial. I think it might be totally neutral. My expectation
is it would probably be pretty neutral to the TIF district. And what we're actually doing. Yeah. Okay.
Then it's just a matter of where the bonding capabilities are based upon our system cash flow is. I
think what we'll probably end up is because these areas anywhere that serves these areas will also serve
the Westside TIF district. So what I think you'll end up seeing is more
cost allocation between those two districts. Either bond or pay as you go, either way. Is there any,
I mean, what we do, we might want to put it back in the West side? I'm with the same thing. I would
say probably not.
we took it out of the west side to give it a longer duration right so this will give it well and and
to to make and to enable the process to occur i mean cook wasn't going to do the whole west side no
but i even if you collected it within that i mean we could designate certain areas of that tiff district
to pay for certain it's just the the time length was expanded by
The time length was expanded into the base was at its all time low because there wasn't anything there
anymore. I don't know why you would put it back in particularly because I'm not sure there's any projects
in the west side TIF that we have on the books that aren't physically connected to this district, right?
And that's the requirement to utilize the money. All right.
So we had no changes or corrections in this report other than what I made to make sure that some term
of the TIF was identified. From a sunset standpoint. Yeah. What are we looking at on our Prairie Pike TIF?
after 2039 because that's when it's scheduled. I think it's 25 years from 2043. We've got adequate time
for tax revenues to be generated. All right. One down. I guess maybe this what I'm going to what I'm
going to recommend that we do and this is for the on the cover page.
For this time, put a beginning and end here for each of these. That's good for everybody to be able
to look at in a quick view that says this one's going to go to here, to here, and then they know where
the revenues are going. Fullerton Pike is next.
I'm going to let Charlie take over unless he wants me to continue. As long as you guys can hear me okay.
Yes. Okay. I hear a little feedback, but as long as you guys are okay or you don't hear it. All right.
You're fine. Perfect. And I'm showing my screen. I don't know if you guys can see that, but you've got
a copy of the reports, I think.
And Jeff, you did a good job on Curry. Sorry, I was late joining. We just had some technical issues.
That's why I put the easy one first. Yeah, that was good. That was good. So Fullerton Pike, and I won't
go page by page. I don't know if you did, Jeff, or not. But there's a lot here in Fullerton, just like
there are in the other TIF areas.
Page three of the report shows our tax rates. Just wanna make sure everybody sees that. Just like in
the past, we do not capture the school referendum tax rates. So those are taken out, the schools get
to collect all the referendum money, even if it's in a TIF area. And the tax rates have been very stable
in this area and really in all of our,
districts. But for pay 26, the tax rate we will collect is 1.2425. Any questions about the tax rate
or how that impacts the different entities here? I'll explain how it's going to impact them in regards
to are you talking based upon where we're on their pay portion? Yes. Yeah, so
The main idea with the TIF is that whatever we're capturing would not have been built had we not done
the TIF area. So the school and the library and the township, they all get whatever tax, whatever assessed
value they had when we created the area. And then in the case of the school, they also get those dollars
from the referendum tax rates. We don't get any TIF revenue from that.
Now you have me confused. Okay. In the 2026 payable tax rate, you said 1.2425. Yes. But in the table
on page 5, you're showing a net tax rate of 9592. The difference being
The fire district has been removed. Yes, and that is also the case. So if it's a fire district, we don't
get to collect TIF revenue on that either. That falls into the same category as school referendum. That's
what decreases our total overall collective rate. Yeah, and we probably ought to,
put that on this page three, the fire district and just kind of keep those together. That would clarify
that a little bit, I think, because that is kind of disconnected. I looked at these two numbers and
they weren't the same. And I said, why aren't they the same? And I finally figured out that it was the
fire district. Yeah, we will. And we want to, you know, I think every year we constantly improve these.
And I think the end date of the TIF areas is great to put on the cover and we'll make this change as
well. So we'll have this flow together better.
So based on looking at on page five, we're at 0.9592 actual collectible tax rate. Correct. That's exactly
right. Yes. That will be added to page three before it's turned in. Correct. And the other thing that
happens is a couple of parcels out of this.
Well, in 2023, issued these bonds, but the parcel count was different. Yeah, and we can go back and
ask the auditor what happened to those. So I'm looking at page seven, that's the list of parcels. I
think you're referring to, there's a parcel, Bill Brown,
trust in a busted block. I can tell you why they were removed if that's the question. They were removed
because they had been annexed into the city. And so since there was no there were also no increment
nothing had been done so when they were removed because they were annexed into the city and we didn't
have debt on any of the TIF districts so by statute
if it's if when it gets annexed into the city out of a tiff district unless there's a bond obligation
then it is removed from the district district it didn't have a bond obligation at the time correct and
and those are the parcels where the where a site was proposed for the jail is that what we're talking
about close to the interstate right yeah but that's that it's that and i i forget how far north it went
from there yeah it doesn't yeah it matches up almost to
That makes sense. And we'll add that footnote to page seven of why those parcels show a zero for pay
25 and pay 26. They came on and then they went off. Yeah. Yes. The question I had, what is what's the
MPT of Bloomington?
at the hospital. Yeah. Yeah. Surgery center. Oh, is that Monroe? It'd be Monroe Hospital. It's really
the only major hospital. The property's adjacent, right? Yeah, they're, they're in the TIF. It is. Now
Southern Indiana Medical's in there's off Tap Road.
that's in this district. The full of the mineral hospital. The hospital is in the district hospitals
is Indiana medical is not part. Part two. Map is on page. Here's our personal and exceed the interest
rate. These are all south of Fullerton.
Southern Indiana Medical is north. Southern Indiana Medical is north, but there's two parcels to it.
Couldn't figure out, because the parcel numbers are not on the map. Are for a couple of them, but not
the others. Finally figured out which one was the
There's a power station there. Yeah, Dukes got there, but that's that's to the south of the Monroe Hospital.
Southwest side as it comes, but it's it's designated. Southern Indiana Medical Park Monroe Medical Park.
Monroe what? No MPT of Bloomington. That is the Monroe Hospital.
Oh, okay. Let's look. Is that the parcel that is to the south of the Monroe Hospital? Good question.
Here's our parcel numbers when we look at our Southern Indiana Medical Park. Here's Monroe Hospital
at the present moment. This is the Duke substation.
the parcel that cuts through, because this is the roadway that extends from Monroe Hospital. That's
the hospital. That's the hospital, that's the Duke substation. No. This is the Duke substation. Duke
substation is over on the right here. Okay, so let's look at this parcel. Is this the parcel? This is
it right here. By this 008.
0590008 including that one and 64 is the one at the bottom. Right, right here. That's this one down
here called Southern Indiana Medical Park. Right, we've also got these other parcel numbers which is
08 and 64. 64, got 50, 61, 63, 61, 60. None of them are.
T.P. at Bloomington. 59, but that should be right here. It's not parcelized out. That should be. Time
off Fullerton. We have the roundabout and this is the hospital site. But it's a, it's a, isn't it a
not-for-profit now? AKB development.
mpkb that's the that's the back there's all of that all of the southern indiana medical part two here's
what i'm talking about richard here all southern indiana medical part yeah that house part two
And what we're referring to in our dialogue and discussion, I'm thinking Southern Indiana Medical Park,
one off Tap Road, which is not in the TIF district. We're everything essentially south of Fullerton
Pike. It's just. Well, at any point, in any way,
The map which is appearing on the page is missing partial numbers.
Well listed The listing of the parcels and the map are corresponding do not correspond One of the things
that we are told to do in the recommendation Parcel numbers and the map
And they do not match. We need a correction on that. That needs to get fixed. All right. So there's
that part of it. The second issue I had was
There is a recommendation that we should use 50% of the annual TIF revenue for the payment of the 2023
bridge bonds. There is a schedule of payments for those bonds on page 6, and it is
looks like the schedule for the entire bond. It doesn't tell me anything about the schedule of this
with respect to our TIF revenue. Yep, that's a good point of clarification. The way the TIF revenue
was pledged was that 50%
of the TIF revenue was pledged to the debt service on the bond. So the county auditor should be, and
that's why the recommendation is in there, should be using 50% of whatever TIF revenue we bring in to
make the bond payment. And whatever is left after that is gonna come from the county major bridge fund.
Right, that works for now.
looking at long-term in regards to what we think the overall revenue will be prior to the sun setting?
Well, if you look at what our TIF revenues have been, it is entirely possible that by the time this
bond gets to 29, TIF revenue will be sufficient to pay the bond. Off. To make the bond payments.
And I noticed that there's a big difference between the first five years and the rest of this bond.
Was it the intent or is it this district is to take over 100% obligation of that bond at that point?
That was the original intention. My memory is that the 50% is
dedicated to that, while the intent's probably not. The hope may be the better word. Because we've always
had the concern with this TIF district with Monroe Hospital, right? Because that's what happens when
they go not for profit. That's always been a concern with this TIF district, in which case the bottom
could fall out of the revenues. And so the hope was always that we front loaded the payment of the bonds
with the hope that once we get through year five, Lisa probably may not know off the top of her head,
but at that point in time, there was a second or third major bridge fund project that we wanted to make
sure we had revenues for, that if we needed the bond for, we could. That was gonna be four or five years
down the road. All right, some dialogue in this report should reflect that. Why'd you look at this and
say, well, the bond payments went from a million,
Wait a minute. What kind of magic happens right there? Frontload everything to the bond in hopes to
build up the cumulative bridge so that whenever we have additional bridges that are needed we have the
capacity to pay for it because the first majority of the bridge or the Florida flag bridge is being
paid from county share standpoint. I think the other part of that equation
of it reducing is also what we talked about kind of with the annexation stuff, right? And so as long
as we have debt on that property in that TIF district, then that district would contain and the other
half of that is we also wanted to make sure the debt remained in place for the duration of the TIF district
so we can continue to make whatever improvements we need for the floor. Makes sense.
the schedule doesn't make any sense at all. It just shows us debt services. It's not showing, it's not
showing how much of the debt is anticipated to be paid by the district at any particular point in time.
It just says, and we kick in a little bit here and there if we can. I think it would be better if we
actually showed
We showed the reality of the contribution that the TIF district is making rather than this. Well, the
whole bond is being paid off by the county and we're going to kick in what we can when we can because
right now we've did a resolution which takes 50% of our annual revenue. And right now our annual revenue is
Hopefully, it's going to be about 150,000, 160,000, something like that. And so we would take 80,000
of that, or whatever the half of that is, and we'd make that a contribution to the county general. It
would work. I think that the money would go straight to the debt payment.
a check to the debt holder part of that funding would come from this fund come from the major bridge
fund okay so we would have to dedicate now so since it's not a precise amount do we have to on an annual
basis set that figure as a payment as a claim right correct okay all right now at present there is
$600,000 sitting in that pot. Are we to take 50% of that? Just the revenue. Huh? Just the revenue, not
the principal. Just the revenue. Okay. Okay. And I believe that the, I can confirm this with bond council,
I think what bond council had said at the time is that you have, that's available for the bond payment,
but as long as the bond gets paid from the sources,
You're okay. Right. So then, so there will be a claim for 50% of revenue that will come through some
point, twice a year? Because we're, we get twice a year? I don't know when, are the bond payments, the
bond payments look like they are? Yeah, they're twice a year.
We're going to have two claims each year for half of our distributed revenue. Pay this off, right? And
I guess I'd ask Charlie the question of if the county chose to pay for 100% of this debt from a different
funding source, that doesn't violate any pledge or anything like that, is that correct?
That's what we would argue, Jeff. That's a good point. But I think going back to what you said and the
way the pledge resolution reads, I think we've pledged that 50% of the TIF revenue because we needed
to show that in order to keep those TIF revenues on those parcels if they were annexed. So I think we
would want to make those TIF payments on the bonds if at all possible.
Is there a way you could add a column to this exhibit E that would have an estimated payments for each?
I think that makes a lot of sense in the end. It'll be an estimated because we don't know what
our collections are going to be. But just to show that we do have that commitment. Jeff, I think we
do have some cash. And we don't spend much out of that Fullerton Pike TIF because of this commitment.
Well, I think that the commitment is to pay at least 50%. I think if the redevelopment chose to, they
could pay more than that. But I think we should at least get what our commitment is in the paper. And
then much like what we did with Curry Pike, if you guys chose to pay additional to free up money in
Major Bridge, we could certainly consider that. Right.
What appears on page six would stay there. We just add a column to the right, which is estimated. If
district commitment, yeah. OK, with that we know exactly where we are from a fine. Additional 50% that
we utilize for any other projects that are necessary. Correct. That makes me more comfortable. Our biggest
biggest concern on this one is simply a matter of our largest
you know, partner on this, taxpayer, which is why we pledged a percentage and not an amount, to be honest
with you, is because. All right. Okay. I'm going to, so that's the map and modification of schedule
on page six. All right. All right. That sounds good. Moving on.
Okay, let's go to the big one. Wilmington Township. Save the west side for the last. Okay. That sounds
good. So again, I think you guys all have copies of our report. Yes. I am presenting on the screen.
This is similar in a lot of ways to Curry profile in that we have a bond outstanding that is
could be up to 4.5 million, but the developer has only drawn 61,500 of that so far, and that's the amount
that's outstanding. We've paid interest on that every year, but we have not paid any principal down
so far. And it's our understanding the developer is still looking at the area, and there is still a
possibility that they may have something there
that they wanna do, that they wanna be reimbursed for some infrastructure and some costs out there that
this still could happen. Although our time is getting short because this one will expire in 2033 when
that bond is paid off. So. And I would give a little update to that. I've seen the emails from the state
where they got their last NOMAR. Is that the correct?
word there, Lisa Lomar. No, their map. What are map revision for Hunter Valley for Hunter Valley? So
I think that and I've talked with Mr Crider and I think their intention is to build the project this
year. At their last remaining obstacle seems to have been overcome. So essentially where we're at is
just a matter of, you know, approving it as it moves forward from a funding standpoint.
Yeah, and once he gets started, I will probably have a conversation with you guys, and I'll probably
have a conversation with Bond Council. The original amortization schedule, of course, was scheduled
based upon a longer payback period to see what the options are. I don't think it's the intent of anyone
not reimburse what we can. Well, there is. OK, so we do have
Schedule on page 5 for the listing And then we have another one on page And then we have another one
on page 8 which looks like it is for the full 4.5 beginning this year
That is correct. And the one on page eight is really for illustration purposes, I would say. And that's
assuming that the developer would draw the full $4.5 million, what the payments would be every year
after that in order to get the bonds retired on time. I have no doubt that he will take it all. Once
he gets the project moving, they will take it.
What I have a question about is how does, what they've drawn already, the 61500 figure into this amortization
schedule, assuming that the debt already is 61500, and I don't see that on this schedule, so that's
got me a little confused.
assumed to be included in the four and a half million. It's not broken out separately on the second
one. Yeah, it's just the full 4.5. So we would assume then that the first principle, okay, so it's included
in the 4.5. And in page 16,
estimated TIF revenue. On page 16, you've given us our estimated revenue based upon revenue expectations
for 2026, which are considerably less than the debt service which is projected here. Now, as I understand
it then, the developer ends up
that but this only goes through 2030 so there's three more years yeah you're your assumption is correct
I think what if we don't get any more build out if he doesn't build anything else that's taxable
we won't have enough TIF revenue to pay the full bond. If he draws the four and a half million. Yeah.
And then the developer eats that because they're, you know, that the only thing that gets paid is whatever
TIF revenue comes in. Right. Okay. So it behooves him to either find tenants to use his property or
the net effect just on, just I'm clear on this, Charlie.
is when we're looking at the difference, you know, we're half a million dollars short based on what
our recent tax revenues, if it doesn't grow from an increment standpoint, there's approximately 670,000
that would. If I look at on page nine, this is the allocation fund estimates.
if settlements are running $500,000. So why is estimated if revenue $260,000 on page 16? We made an
assumption
may not be correct that we need to update. We assumed that some of the property was going to be sold
to the county for a project. And by doing that, we were gonna take some taxable property and make it
tax exempt. That may not happen now. So I think we need to look at that and maybe update that projection
of TIF revenue. Yes.
Or at least annotate that. I guess we're sitting here and we're going through the fiscal plan of this.
Jeff, is that a correct statement? Is there still something out there or for them to correct to get
this correct? Just an annotation on the note. I would do an annotation because of my opinion until a
site is chosen, a site's not been chosen. And there are a number of possible sites.
You know, where it goes, I have no idea. But I would think that you annotate it this year, the next
year you correct it together. Given the circumstance with the bond holder that's already purchased the
bond, hasn't drawn down on it, he's aware of this type of situation. Yes. There is debt on it.
His debt at this question is, do we pay off this sixty one five or do we let it hang? I. I wouldn't
pay it off because he's informed us or he's informed me that he's going to try to build the road this
year, and I'd rather have the road at the road and get everything. And since this is a debt on the entire district,
anything that gets annexed in that district is still going to be in the tip, right? Okay. All right.
So it just, it, it, I guess the issue is that we would like that annotation on page 16. It'd be a little
more emphasis on the speculative or the unknown nature of what's going to happen there. Cause right
now it shows us upside down. Yep. That's a good point. We will do that.
there was something again you've got this the same issue with the that tax rate on page 6 yes which
is including the fire district and fire district actually comes out and it
sure that comes out. And Jeff, am I correct at the West River LLC at the property that the county purchase?
Would not be. I wouldn't
Page 15. It's a negative $14 million. That is another parcel. I think it's a senior living center that
it looks like has become fully tax exempt for pay 26.
We're going to confirm that with the auditor as well. But that's why it went down to zero for pay 26.
So that's a big impact for us. And the VA is non-profit anyway. That sounds more like why it went down
from $250,000. Yep. That's big.
doesn't make any sense. Yeah. And that's why we've got the question in on that because in the past part
of the facility had been given tax exempt status. So we, we captured most of the AV, but there was some
that was tax exempt, but for as of now pay 26, it looks like a hundred percent tax exempt. So we will
get that resolved before we issue the final report.
Now, I do know that facility had some kind of change occur at the middle of last year as we saw a big
difference in their water usage.
It went down by half. I don't know whether that, there was some transition that occurred there in terms
of who owned it. Something like that. It's a big enough difference. We had to make sure we understand
what's going on there. Yeah. We will definitely do that. The other thing that I noticed,
And this is taking the parcels against the map. The map which appears on page at the end of this, which
is gonna be paid. Whatever it is, whatever page it is, it's the map. This map does not show all the
parcels that are in the TIF, as far as I can tell. Because it is showing the parcels that are in Bloomington Town.
Yep, but showing the parcels that are in There should be a bunch of parcels in Richland Township that
are part of the TIF
Okay, Lisa or Jeff, can you help us with that? Yeah, and get us in. Yeah, well, I'll get in touch with
John Baten, our GIS coordinator. Okay. And have him run. I'm gonna I'm gonna have him run all four maps.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I sent these maps, those, John had sent those to me in February that they were
all updated. So that's that came from him. That particular map is not correct.
Okay. Another thing I had. I did have a question. Oh, this is for Lisa. On the proposed projects listing,
it is showing the extension of Curry Pike, which is now Hunter Valley, as being four lanes with intersection
turn lanes, et cetera, et cetera. And there is
a note about construction costs and fixes two lane and four lane numbers and comes up with a different
number. So I didn't change those because I haven't really been in contact with Steve Crider. He was
in contact with Paul. I don't have the the cost estimate that he he would need to provide. I can get
that updated but
I have been, I really haven't been involved in this project. Jeff and Jeff and Steve Crider usually
contact Jeff Cockrell and then Steve Crider would contact Paul. So I can get the most latest update
from Steve Crider. Okay, that's what we need. Yeah, and my memory is that it's once it gets beyond the
creek there, it's two lanes. That's what I was remembering as well.
It definitely is in four lanes all the way. So I think that was just in the original setup. I was originally
supposed to be four and then we cut it back down and we didn't have the money. Correct. But that note,
which is note number two underneath that table, that needs to be corrected so that it's clear about
what's going on. And then the entry in the table itself needs
be corrected too, because there is a, I think it's four lanes up to the bridge and then it's two lanes
after that, I believe. But that needs to be corrected in this report. Okay. All right. So that's what
we've got for this one. All right, that sounds great. We'll get that revised and back out.
Are these estimates still good, Lisa? For Westside? What'd you ask me, Randy? Are these estimates still,
you feel so good with Hunter Valley? That's what I want to check with Steve Kreider because he hasn't
provided me any numbers recently. All right. And I, yeah. On to the Westside.
That sounds good. So we will, just like we said earlier, we'll make sure on the cover page on all of
those, we'll put our expected expiration date. So we'll have that on the west side. That one will be
ending. And we do have two bond issues outstanding on that district. Yep.
And in this one, we do have some parcels that the city of Bloomington annex. So we've got some sharing
of revenues, but since we had those bonds outstanding, we got to keep our tax rate, everything except
the city. Bloomington gets their portion of the tax rate on those parcels.
we'll go to 2039, that's the final payment on both bond issues. So is there certain pages we wanna go
through on this or how would you guys like to handle this one? Let's look at the tax rates again. Okay.
Because there's no annotation at the bottom of the tax rate table.
telling us what gets included and what doesn't get included. Okay. And that's, that's a good point.
So, um, right now, and this would be possibly impacted as we talked about with Ellisville and the, um,
reorganization, but as of now, Richland beam blossom does not have, uh, the school district does not
have any referendum rates. So we get the full school tax rate and there is no fire district out there. Uh, it's,
So we get we get the full tax rate for this this area. Good. But there is a vote tonight on the fire
district. Yeah, changes, right? I think that's the territory or the territory and I'm not sure. I'm
not sure the what I know the rules aren't totally the same for both the district and territory. I just
don't know how it's affected here, right? OK.
Yeah, and it would most likely reduce our TIF revenue. We would lose the fire tax rate that's in the
township right now. That will go away and there will be a fire territory rate that we would not collect.
They're basically treated the same as fire districts now. That law changed a few years back.
So if the territory is successful, that would most likely reduce our TIF revenue in the future. Is that
something we need to look at from a projection standpoint? We can definitely, we've got a cash flow
back in later in the report. We could show the cash flow with that assumption. I think that's a good
way to look at it. That's a good point.
two schedules, one for the 2020 bond. Yep. In bonds. I'm trying with each of those. And you give us
an estimated debt service coverage. And we've had better coverage now than we've ever had before. The
question is, why don't we have any money? Coverage was on cash. Yeah.
And we are building our cash back up. So, you know, we did dip down, but when we get back to that cash
flow page, you'll see that we are starting to build that back up. Now, Lisa may have some more projects
that come into play in the future. We'd kind of stopped, you know, because we didn't have any money
to spend. A couple questions for Charlie. I'm looking at the time coverage, I guess.
If the Art Redevelopment Commission chooses to do another bond in the future, I mean, should they be
reminded or is it still the case that, you know, 10 years is probably the shortest you want to issue
the bonds for? Or am I? That is a, that's a good rule of thumb. You know, there's, you know,
Sometimes that's different, but that is a good way to look at it. That's kind of the minimum because
of the costs you have to go through to do a bond issue. 10 years is kind of that good starting point.
If we're going to look for a big project, let's look for one in the next couple of years so that we
can get that bonding completed before 29. So it can be a nice 10 year. Yes.
I guess I had another question. I noticed that we were getting between 24 and 25, had the same amount
of cash invested, but our interest went way down in 25. Anybody know why that went down? I don't know
why, other than that's across the board, everything we saw at the county level with
Interest received from investments, I think. I think it's the rate that the banks are paying and the
treasuries are paying. I think it's going. It's hard to get interest on funds. I mean, I think for a
couple years when the Fed increased the rate to control inflation,
when we got all the revenue from from savings right now that it's being reduced i mean that's one of
the costs of that or the ratchet down a little bit too yeah that's probably the biggest thing here is
our our fund balance just went down you know by quite a bit so at the at the end of 24 we just had you
know 347 000 of cash so that that made a big difference in
25 of how much interest we could earn. We need to look at projects that have occurred two years from now.
Okay. Changes in value. Put that together. We've got our expected TIF revenue, which is running
a million-dollar ballpark. In the past, we were expecting it to be something
Like that? Yeah, we expect our TIF revenue for 26 to be just over 3.1 million. Right, right. Okay.
On page 21, the total revenue.
And we've got a new page, a corrected page, and we'll get that. The report you have does not have the
project cost in 26 that Lisa provided to us. So we're gonna spend more in 26 than what that shows. So
I've got a revised page. I don't know if you guys can see this on the screen or not, but. Is that a
revised page for 16?
for page 21. Just a brief note, you could probably take off the with school payment. Yeah, that's a
good point too. Yeah, we're committed to that now.
So the page 21 that you guys have at the bottom, the projects are all blank for 2026, that's not correct.
The version I've got on the screen right now shows a Curry Pike reconstruction, 750,000 for 26 and 165,000
for Vernal Pike Connector Road. So with that, our estimated spending for 26 is just over 2.4 million.
And that would give us
All right, my question goes up to the top part of this chart. Okay. Where it says total revenue, 2027.
The sum of 2.7 million and 3.1 million is not 3.1 million. We're not including the fund balance in the
total revenue line. So the beginning balance. Okay.
is excluded. So, and we've got some extra things there that were in the past like that beginning balance
from the 20. When you draw a straight line and then you do a total below it, that would be the sum of
the two numbers above it. Yeah, we need to space that out better. That's a good point. It's the beginning
balance should just stand on its own and then have some space after that.
We'll turn that up too. There's actually two pieces to this up above. There's the beginning balance
and beginning balance, and then there's the one which has to do with estimated TIF revenue,
federal funding, total. Yeah. So there should be a total balance up above there too. That begins. And
we've got the bonds, school payment, fire truck, and then the items that you
just mentioned that need to go into this. Yep. And what was your final year? The end of 26,
we have a 1,822,837 is the estimated ending balance for 26. 1,832? 822. 1,822,837.
this chart should have a subtotal for beginning balance a subtotal for total revenue a subtotal for
total disbursements and then an ending balance yeah we will make that update right so it's the subtotal
for beginning balance that you're missing
I guess part of what confuses me in this is that we have an estimated TIF revenue, and I know historically
we've had other revenue components to it, but this year we don't. So your estimated TIF revenue is also
your total revenue, and so I don't know if, at least for this year, that could be simplified or not,
if that makes sense. That is our total overall revenue plus the balance.
It does get shown later on. There's a five. Yeah, just the way that that chart is written. Yeah.
We'll clean that up, and I think Jeff's got a good point. In the past, we had other revenue besides
TIF in there, and the total revenue was more applicable. Now it kind of, it doesn't make as much sense
because it's repeating that same number. But I think we can format this better. Yeah, I think you can
format it so that it's better. It's better, yes. Okay.
we're expecting them to end up in twenty seven. That ending balance will be two million six thirty two
four fifty one and that's after putting eight hundred thousand in for Curry Pike reconstruction in twenty seven.
We're on to Parsons didn't check all these I'm assuming they're correct because it's a lot of work I
noticed that
Base for 2026 is down by 5 million. I know why that's occurred. That's a result of the formula required
by DLGF. So the county auditor has to put in certain things into that. And it's just a mathematical
computation.
that they go parcel by parcel on changes and they have to determine if it's a higher value, if it was
caused by somebody actually building something new or if it's trending. And they have to identify that
the same thing with abatement roll offs. And then there's a final item that they have to enter as far as what
if anything was demolished or if something became tax exempt. So when they enter all those things in,
the DLGF calculation tells them what that new base value has to be. And I can confirm, I can check with
the assessor's office, but my memory is that one of the, part of this district is part of that,
you know, the complex that has the strip mall off of, with low,
and all those. So this part of that is contained in there and one of those businesses had done a major
appeal through the assessor's office and got their assessed value reduced by, I don't think the full
amount, but by a significant amount that would have. I know Lowe's did it. That was a couple years ago.
That would have only had an effect.
Yeah, I think they, I think they filed it a couple years ago, but I think it just. When I look at the,
when I look at the Bloomington township packet, there is a, a chart which is called major changes in
assessed value, which is very helpful because it gives me an idea of what's going on and what to look
for. That was the thing about the hospital. We don't have that for this one.
What we've got is the historical values for the prop. And so when I, one of the things I did was kind
of run my finger down and say, oh, this one's a big difference. This one's a big. I don't know what
this is. But we do have that on page 18. We do have that similar kind of parcel. 18? Yeah.
It's just for a few years because I think at one point in time they had 20 years worth of these major
changes all in the same report and it just got a little burnt. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so we've got, I
guess we've got three years. Okay, I see it now.
missed it. The other thing is to make sure that we've got things. That is correct. And I didn't see
any obvious things in this that weren't here.
The question was why were some of the things not in it? That's a separate issue. And I think the answer
to that is twofold. One, there are a few that aren't in it, period. And then at one point in time, if
the property was not at a taxable property, then it was not included in the TIF district as part of
what's in the LAO software.
But if you're gonna run the map for the others, you might as well run the map. This map would be a little
cumbersome. I've already had that conversation with him. I just need to circle back and see where they're
at with that. And the last thing we've got then is the local cost table.
are projections for the future. All right. Anybody got anything else on these? I would just ask, at
the next meeting or maybe the meeting after that, you guys are going to receive some resolutions asking
you to declare whether there is any excess assessed value in any of these TIF districts.
And so when we go through these with our financial advisor, I always ask them, through the four reports,
do they have any recommendations on how to answer that question? And Jeff, we recommend the commission
capture all of the assessed value in all of the districts for pay 27. And I think we've,
you know, as we walk through these, we've identified those costs and debt payments on each of the areas
that we do need the TIF revenues for in 27. One question regards to that total overall, and this is
a question, Jeff, in regards to, is there ever any possibility of doing consolidated TIFs so you could
utilize this money into one specific project that the county needs as a whole?
I don't know if one, that's really. I guess you have two districts, one district that's off on its own
that doesn't in any way connect to it. So I don't know how you can consolidate that, right? I think
with the expiration dates on the state road 46 corridor being, what, 2033, that's only six, seven years.
It's seven years away, which in the grand scheme of things isn't a whole lot of time to really think
that consolidation makes a lot of sense. And I think we've already talked about whether Curry Profile
and the Westside TIF District should be consolidated. I guess in theory, yes. I actually think instead
of consolidation, maybe the more interesting question and the one that we probably should consider is,
you know, we've got that
46 corridor that still hasn't really gone. And so does it make sense? We had looked at a residential
TIF there. I actually I think there's one property owner that's not with Logan land development. They
had called me prior to spring break and we're looking at maybe some kind of multifamily housing or they're
trying to figure out what they're going to do with that property.
you know, if we had, if they were going to do something that would be a high revenue generator, particularly
if it's multifamily or something like that. I really think, plus with how the PUD got changed, where
that kind of that northern section across 40. And what I'm asking is not specifically for that particular
one or residential TIF because we've looked at that, but just as we look at these large projects that
need to be done, if we look.
you know, 10,000 here, we've got 1.5 million on this particular TIF, and of course, TIF given the geographic
areas, if it would be consideration to do that, and if you do that, would that allow for the additional
sun setting time to extend longer? Well, I think once, and Charlie, if you know, if what I say is wrong,
please step in, but the second you extend the timeline of that TIF, you reset the base.
Well, so the State Road 46 has areas where resetting the base may not be a big deal because they haven't
developed. And so that's kind of where I was going with it is that, you know, you look at the areas
in those TIFs that haven't developed and that's where you look at, hey, does it make sense to do something
different there? So let me just add to that a little bit. So when you consolidate the TIF areas, you
do not extend
any of the dates of expiration and you wouldn't reset the base. So the only thing consolidation does
is allow you to spend the money in those other areas. It doesn't change the allocation area calculations
at all. So west side would still expire when it currently expires and the base would still be the same.
Consolidation and Bloomington did this a while back. It just allows them to spend money in that wider
area. It doesn't impact collection of TIF revenues. If that makes sense. That makes perfect sense. That's
what I was looking at in regards to it's just utilized as a financing vehicle in overall area. When
I know any sun setting or collections, you just pick it out.
And the one thing- So it may make sense to think about for Curry and Westside. I'm trying to remember
and I need to get the map out to see how contiguous the state road 46 and Westside are, right? I just
can't remember. I think they are, but I think we'd have to make sure that is the case if you wanted
to think about that.
I have no claims. I have comment. Lisa, have you got any comments? I do not. Do you have a comment?
No, we'll just, I guess, I assume that you guys
Well, I think you guys probably should go ahead and move and vote that we go ahead, make the corrections
discussed at this meeting, file the corrected versions of these reports with the county council and
make sure they get put in the gateway by April 15th. So I would comment that that motion vote hopefully
will happen tonight. Other than that, I mean, this is a great meeting. And I think the next meeting
I already heard from Dr. Sanders and I will
But we will have the presentation from the RBB. Given that comment, I'm going to move that we request
FSG to prepare a new set of reports with actions. I deliver those to Jeff for submission to
to the council I believe on a council and then ultimately on into the Indiana gateway and it posted
to the Indiana gateways that like a 15th have a motion and a second or do we have to call roll on this
No, because no one's online, but I'm more than happy to call roll if you want. Call the roll. Commissioner
Martin. Yes. Commissioner McCarty. Yes. Commissioner Jones. Yes. Commissioner Cassidy. Yes. Motion is
approved, four to zero. All right. Commissioner Comins. Randy, you got anything else? I think we're
good. Just call anything. Same here. We're good. I'm good too.
these reports done and filed. Mr. Crider building a road for us. Work on Curry Pike. Sort it out so
we can get started on that. Bids have been approved. Contracts? Thank you, Charlie. Thank you, guys.
Have a good night.
Getting adjourned.